South Africa 76-03
1. SA76-03 Gururaj: Now please do ask whichever questions you want to ask and as I said before there's no question too small or too large because it all affects every aspect of living and if living is to be symbolised as the expression of some divinity or a form of divinity, then it is all within this sphere of our satsangs and of our talks. Public: Gururaj, --- umm – if one listens to the sound of < 0:00:38.8 > voice and say – and say brutish a tongue because -- Gururaj: Brutish? Public: Yes, yes. I noticed that the sound seems to bellow in the gut, it sort of seem to come from the stomach. <0:00:59.7> it seems to come from the throat. Gururaj: Um -hmm Public: < 0:01:06.2 > that seems to resonate from something < 0:01:11.9 > and is it possible to relate the changing of this change of the sound of this < 0:01:23.8 > Gururaj: You used the word three times saying, “it seems” that a brutish person seems to speak from his stomach and a person of very high development seems to speak from somewhere beyond. That could very well depend upon our interpretations for one and of course our interpretations depends a lot upon our perception. Now to be able to know that an evolved person speaks from beyond, we too have to be of that state of evolution. You can only see the top of one tree if you stand on the top of the other tree and in that way you would know the higher you stand the wider the view. If you stand on Table Mountain, you'd see the whole of Cape Town but if we stand at the bottom, we’ll just see the building opposite us. So the question is not unjustified, it’s a very beautiful question really. The interpretation to this, let us discuss how the sages would interpret this and the sages would agree with you in saying that the highly evolved man speak – speaks with a certain sound of voice which could, to highly perceptive people seem to be coming from beyond because the highly evolved person is a person who encompasses the entire existence within himself and if a person speaks from that stand, expressing himself in sound audibly, then there is power, there is the essence of the universe that could float through those words and the essence of the universe is energy. Subtly energy expressively love. So the highly evolved person would speak in a tone of voice expressing the entire lo ve of the whole universe. Now if we are not highly perceptive to really hear or und erstand the value of that sound, we still have within us a divinity that could make us feel that here is something. We could experience that something in that person's voice.
2. SA76-03 Now the mind would not be satisfied because the finest kind of experience is something which the mind too, to a certain extent can appreciate. So it would be pleasing to the heart, unfolding of the heart and very pleasing to the mind. So the mind aspect and the feeling aspect of man substantiate each other. It is good to listen to highly evolved people because immediately we get a certain feeling, but that is not enough, when we get that feeling, and the mind starts enquiring, we must pursue the enquiry. If we do not pursue the enquiry of the mind, then evolution wise we remain static. In the search for knowledge or wisdom, the first quality – the first qualification a person should have is the ability to enquire. That is the stand from which we approach and in our enquiry when we fi nd suitable satisfying answer, that would be the time when man is pleased. Now the answers we received or what is given to us in the form of wisdom depends a lot upon our own capacity and our own ability to understand. Great sages might say one word and that might be interpreted in many different ways by many different people according to their perception. But that too is good if we have a lower perception, let us sincerely and truthfully understand it at the value or to the range of that perception and when we fully understand it according to our range, automatically the range would start growing more like a balloon would still have a little more capacity for a little more air and that is how expansion takes place. This is the way how we acquire, we receive rather, wisdom. We don’t acquire wisdom, we acquire knowledge. Knowledge is an acquisition but wisdom is an unfolding. A person can go to university and study books with his professors and acquire lot of knowledge, but that is not really wisdom. Wisdom is to know what you know. Now I always say, people say I think, really speaking people only think that they think. It’s not necessarily real genuine thinking because real, genuine thinking has that creativity in it. Real, genuine thinking is always creative. So when we hear the sound emitted by anything, we would accept it according to our perception. Accepting it according to our perception of it mind wise because that perception would be influenced by what we have felt, not nec essarily only in the meaning of words, but also its sound value. There is, for example, Sanskrit language and every word, I've been told is based on its sound value. When we say table in Sanskrit, then the sound emitted from the table is represented audibly in the word and that is why Christianity also agrees on that principle, on the theory of the word, first was the word, and that's how it progressed. So it is true when you say that the status of a person's evolution can be summed up by a qualified person on the sound he hears from that person. Now it does not mean that a wonderful opera singer that has a beautiful voice is necessarily a highly evolved person. They are other qualities how they strike us in transmitting themselves to us, how those sounds em itted by the highly evolved man transforms the atmosphere, how his words enlightens everything around him. Then we know we have an inkling that here is a force coming from an embodied person. A force which is even beyond the embodiment of the embodied person. Okay?
4. SA76-03 composite whole. By invoking those forces which are apparently external we are – by invoking, we are awakening the forces within us inherently within us. Man essentially is divine, always divine. So by external invocation, we stir up, activate awakened the divinity within us and that is how we receive the benefits. That is how confusions disappears, realisations dawn. In every sphere and aspect of our lives ranging from a headache to a very deep psychological problem, it is all within this sphere by the activation of the subtle forces, it must and it does benefit the whole range of our mind and the whole range of our body with all its millions and billions of cells, we tinge every cell with that subtle force. Call it divinity if you wish to. Okay? Publi c: Yes, did those influences < 0:17:26.1 > in other words, certain thought forms < 0:17:34.7 >? Gururaj: It could, it could. Subtle forces coming to us can be prevented if the carburettor is dirty, the petrol doesn’t go through. Yes – yes – yeah. Public: Guruji, could you speak a bit on goodness? Gururaj: Umm for me to speak on goodness, I would have to know what evil is and I don’t know what it is. Public: (Laughs) Gururaj: Because whenever – whenever we take an idea – whenever we take an idea immediately the opposite form of the idea occurs always. Perhaps we are not conscious of it, but subconsciously too. If we say cold, we have an idea of what is warm, when we say white, we have an idea what is black. When we say dark, we have some idea of what is light. Now people regard themselves or could be seemingly evil, yet in spite of that, believe or appearance, they subconsciously feel that there is something good. It is that feeling or a subconscious knowingness that tells us that there is something good, therefore majority of the people in the world cannot deny the existence of good and good is god. They might not be able to prove with their minds the reality of what is god, they might develop their minds in a way where they draw veils and cover up that which is good. It ’s like a blind man who would say that there's no one sitting around me, he said that because he is blind. So people delude themselves, as far as goodness is concerned, they say there is no good. People are also influenced by their experiences in life. Some person is very unhappy. Some people's lives, they say nothing just goes right. Unhappy home life, the husband doesn’t treat them well or the wife doesn’t treat their husband well, the children are naughty, the business is not running well, everything is going wrong. Those people say, “If everything goes
5. SA76-03 wrong in my life, bad. Then where is the good?” because of these experiences, they mentally try to condition themselves on mind level only that there is no good. But such people are the very ones that need a guru more than others. Yes. It is a fallacy for them to think that everything is so bad, there is no good but they never ask the question, “Why is everything so bad?” If they start asking the question, “Why is everything not really going good for me?” if they sincerely start asking that question, then they will try and find a way, they will try and find an answer why everything is not right and in trying to find the answer, they would try and find ways and means if they themselves are unqualified they go to a doctor. Doctor of the body, doctor of the mind or a doctor of the soul. So it is a delusion in the minds of many that suffer to say there is no good. On a certain relative level, goodness cannot exist without evil. There again, it’s like two sides of a coin. There cannot be heat without cold, there cannot be shade without light, it is coexistent in the relative level. In the absolute level, what happens there that a person goes beyond, goes beyond that which is relative. All these opposites can only exist in the range of relativity from a gross level to the subtlest level of relativity it could be there, but form the absolute point of view, there is no good, no good and no bad. I was told the story of the yogi Milarepa, and this story was told to me by the very questioner. The story goes that Milarepa said that when I was very young, I did dark deeds, when I grew up a bit more and learnt a bit more, I did light deeds and now I'm beyond the dark and the light too. I'm beyond the black and the white. I am beyond the good and the bad. It is only when a person reaches beyond, transcends the laws of nature, the laws that govern our very lives, that governs this universe. Once you go beyond that, then these what is good and what is bad ceases to exist. What exists then? That is indefinable. The absolute value of life is indefinable, it is invisible like the air we breathe, yet it is existent. We know the air is existent because it makes us live. So relativity depends on the absolute. Life depends on breathing and experientially we know, without being able to see it, we know that air exists because that breath is the very life. We do not believe in abstract concepts of the absolute because we do not absolute is abstract. We as embodied beings, we try to find the meaning of the expression of the absolute, how the absolute expresses itself in relativity. Relativity by man philosophers is regarded to be delusion, illusion. A person can regard something to be an illusion if he has gone beyond. But until he is enmeshed in the illusion, then even illusion is real. This belief, illusion meaning maya had been the downfall of other countries. They become very fatalistic. They say. “Oh this is not all real, why worry about it?” And when you don’t worry about it, everything can go to pieces. There has to be care, a conscious care, so even in that sense, relativity, those people must realise that relativity is also real but one difference, there is a difference between reality and actuality. What is actual and what is real.
7. SA76-03 Public: You said that – that the absolute is in the < 0:33:33.3 > Gururaj: Say it again? Public: That absolute is in – the absolute is in -- Gururaj: Is indefinable? Yes. Public: And is it true < 0:33:50.1 > Gururaj: Meaning is in the terms of? Public: Is in the level of relativity? Gururaj: Yes, yes all meanings are in the terms of relativity. Deeper the meaning, profound the meaning, the subtler the form of relativity. Public: And is it possible that to be -- Gururaj: -- Because – because when you use the word meaning, you are necessarily interpreting. When you use the term meaning, you're interpreting. With what are you interpreting? You're interpreting with your mind. Right. The mind can comprehend the relative only because the structure of the mind is also relative. The absolute is beyond the relative, is beyond the mind. That is why the absolute is indefinable. Right? Public: Then what experience is the absolute? Gururaj: What experience is the absolute? The absolute experiences the absolute itself. Public: Yes.
8. SA76-03 Gururaj: It does, yes and what does the relative experience? The expression of the absolute because the relative is the expression of the absolute. Now this is mental gymnastics. When we try and separate the absolute from the relative. I would say that the absolute and the relative is one but at different levels. At different levels. The absolute has to express itself and the form of the way of expression. Firstly, vibrationally sound – sound solidifies itself to become grosser and grosser and grosser until it becomes perceptible by the five senses. Okay? Good. Public: < 0:36:10.9 > Gururaj: On e feels lubricious because? Public: < 0:36:17.2 > Gururaj: The question cannot be answered unless you experience it, yes – yes because you cannot know the absolute without reaching the absolute, without becoming absolute. You cannot know the absolute. I've said this over and over again, you can only infer, but yet to repeat what was said earlier now, that the inference is dependent and stimulated by something unknowable – unknowable by the mind but felt by the heart that there is something beyond that spurs us on. Public: So if the mind has value in a way that it cannot -- Gururaj: Oh yes – oh yes the – the mind is a block towards the absolute and it is also the instrument, also the means of reaching the absolute. Yes – yes, oh yes. Public: Gururaj if I'm correct in saying that everything in life is according to divine plan, everything is because it should be. Everything is right, nothing is wrong. Because of this <0:37:40.4> Gururaj: Any purpose in? Public: < 0:37:52.7 > Gururaj: Oh yes – oh yes. Everything is according to divine plan. Very beautiful. But how do we understand what divine plan is or what do we understand about the workings of the divine plan? The divine plan is a law like water must flow
9. SA76-03 down the hill, it cannot flow up the hill. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. That is divine plan. But the workings within the divine plan depend upon how we work it. The mind has been given these qualities where the power generated by the divine plan can be blocked by the mind. So everything that happens is not only divine plan, but also us that are part and parcel of the divine plan. You have to go this afternoon to Summersid e West, that is the divine plan. You have to go there. How you go there depends on you. Now that dependence is also – has also something to do with the plan. There is also a plan involved in how you want to do it. Oh yes, so it is circles within circles. There are laws within laws, when we get to the essence of it, then we can say it is all divine plan. But how practical is that saying that? To who can we say that that is all divine plan? That we can say to a sage because he knows the divine plan. He knows the essence of divine plan. If we say that to a person in the street, a layman, we might be doing the man great harm. We might be putting him to sleep by saying, “oh the flower will grow – the plant will grow according to divine plan, ” he will stop watering. So we say you are necessary too. There are lot of energies in the ground, minerals, the sun and the air, divine plan, it helps the plant to grow. But you also have a job to do there, to water. Rains will come, yes fine, divine plan. Are we going to wait for rains? What do we do actively? All our philosophies in life must be brought down to its bare practicality otherwise philosophy is nothing but mental gymnastics. We can use philosophy to gain a better understanding of things so that by gaining a better understanding we can practice those things. That is the purpose. That is the purpose. So in the divine plan, there’re plans in the plan. Okay? Public: < 0:41:47.6 > Gururaj: Yeah, I didn’t get you too well. Your accent gets me a bit. Public: < 0:42:01.8 > Gururaj: Pray er , is that – was the second part of your question? Prayer alters things also according to a plan. How you pray and what is prayer? Now people mistake prayer, they make prayer mean begging. In prayer, real prayer, we don’t beg – we don’t beg. With many people praying, they make it a business. They want to do a business with god. They say that if my son passes his exams, I will donate 50 Rand to the Foundation of Spiritual Unfoldment. Public: (Laughs)
10. SA76-03 Gururaj: No, that is business – that is business, why don’t we rather donate the 50 Rand or with a thought in our mind that my son will pass so that prayer becomes positive then? Otherwise you're bargaining. Your son might pass and then you might tell god, “Look god I've only got 49.” Public: (Laughs) Gururaj: You see, so the proper form of prayer is not to beg and not to bargain, but to make a positive assertion. Don’t beg, don’t bargain but assert and say, “Lord, thou art within me and because thou art within me, I do know that all positivity’s within me too and if the positivity is within me, then let the positivity be activated so I can help my son pass his exam.’” <Audio skips> Passing the exam we want men, not mice. See your son passing the exam in your mind's eye, think those positive thoughts in his company or when you're away from him, that will activate positive energies, that will help the son. But there too, as the plans within plans, the son must study, otherwise man or god can't help him, he must help himself. Okay? That is prayer. Public: I was wondering, guruji, if the < 0:45:10.8 > makes it more difficult for us personally < 0:45:18.3 > should we do anything to counter this? I meant all of us. Gururaj: That is a very – very beautiful question. Let us not take it in the general context of a country. Let us take it in a personal context – context of a single person. A question – a very similar question was asked of me one day to say that if a person thinks negatively of me, how would it affect me? I said, “You are blessed if the person thinks negatively of you. You are blessed.” This person that asked the question thought that if a person keeps on sending negative thoughts to me all the time, it will affect my life and make me negative, I say, “No, it cannot make you negative”. There's a lovely little Indian fable, a story which I told this questioner that a yogi, he lived at the edge of the village. Now some people don’t like him, some liked him, there were a lot people that don’t like him because these yogis are laws unto themselves, they’re not bound by laws. What could be seemingly wrong to us in looking at them, they are just beyond it. They live in a different state of unattach – non-attachment. They live in a state of non-attachment where they're not governed or ruled by the ways of the world. They are in the world but not of it. Right. So this yogi was a person that was not very well understood and that morning, being a village it was one horse town, village, one road, one street. So he put on his turban and he was in such a hurry that there was so many holes in the turban. As he walked through the street, this one started criticizing him and says, “You know that yogi is this that,” the other one said that – other one said that and as each one started thinking
11. SA76-03 negatively of the yogi, all the bums and the holes in the turban starts coming out. By the time he reached the other side of the village, his turban was first class, no more holes. Public: (Laughs) Gururaj: When a person thinks negatively of us, he is doing us a favour. He is alleviating the effects of some of our karma and he is adding it onto himself. He, by negatively thinking, he is weeding our garden. He weeds our garden for us, makes the garden cleaner, clearer so that the plants can grow. Now if a person thinks positively of us, what happens then? When a person sends positive thoughts to us, what happens then is that he is watering our plant. In both ways we are helped, both in a different way. The garden can only thrive if the weeds are taken out and the plant can only thrive if it’s watered. One positive thought naturally, the water is important because many plants can survive even in weeds. So never be afraid if a person thinks negatively. All the forces, negative thoughts that are send to us as an individual, as a society, as a community, as a country does not effect, it helps, it helps and this is one country seeing you talked of countries, one country where, in spite of whatever might be happening, there's a great amount of peace here while other countries were so involved in so many – in wars, bloodshed, millions of people dying. This country never felt its effects, this country is so prosperous also, there's no hunger here. Someone said, an American says to me, he says,” My country is a – is a land of milk and honey”, I said, “My South Africa is a land of milk and money,” (Laughs) . So we find here a lot of – lot of blessings, lo t of blessings, there's no hunger really, no real – real poverty. Right. People, as ordinary human beings have their shares of happiness and unhappiness as everywhere else, so of course the unhappiness is not necessary but according to the understanding they might be feeling unhappy and that is everywhere. But in the world situation and whatever is directed to us, we are still very – very fortunate – very fortunate. Public: Guru – Gururaj, how – what is the exact mechanics of man < 0:50:59.3 > Gururaj: Yes, what happens there – what happens there is that everyone is in this world with a certain set of samskaras. We – samskaras, I'm coming to that, samskara's to put it very simply, it's a Sanskrit word which means impressions. We are the sum total of all our previous existences. Right. That sum totality of our previous existences is conveyed in this lifetime by that which in Sanskrit is known as samsakras or impressions or memories of past lives, past actions, past thoughts, past deeds, everything. Good. Now being here with all those samskaras, the action of another as we know it in the relative world is interfering with our samskaras. They are causing a interference or a stirring of the samskaras. Now if there is a basin of water and we drop a heavy object in the basin of water, water becomes less in the basin and it shoots
12. SA76-03 out, making us wet. In that way the person that interferes or disturbs our samskaras is helping to make them less or smoothing its path, but the negative thinker suffers by the splash of it as in the basin. Those are the mechanics. Public: < 0:53:28.9 > can one say then that in – in – in being made to suffer in that sense, one is in fact working out one's samskaras because, for example, one has various ideas about what -- what other realms co uld be, and this earth has within it a lot of composing force, a lot of pressure which we have to fight through spiritually and that is what test and strength and < 0:53:59.6 > Gururaj: Now --- Public: And – and in somebody say – offering negativity towards us even if it is thought, we may or may not be aware, but if it's the spoken word, then we’re aware immediately and one can react accordingly. Could you say then that in having this negativity, it is giving us an opportunity <0:54:24.5> Gururaj: Oh yes, yes – yes – yes it is an opportunity given to us because in every adversity, there is an opportunity. If you accept the concept of adversity, then you must also accept the concept of opportunity. You must. Now if we say you mentioned the word suffering, there are many religions that teach that man must suffer to evolve. Now is this absolutely necessary? If we want to make a loaf of bread, you need the dough. Is the kneading of the dough suffering to the flower that makes the bread? That is the positive attitude that we have to develop within ourselves. Fine. There could be suffering, do we take it as suffering? Can a person become strong by repeating to himself that I am weak – I'm weak – I'm weak? No. Assume the bravery of the strong man like a friend of mine says, to be enthusiastic, act enthusiastic and enthusiasm comes to you to do your work. If we are going to wallow in the idea that I'm weak – I'm weak – I'm weak, you will only become more weaker. No, see the positive side of the suffering. See the strength of it and let the mind dwell more on the strength, rather than the weakness. So when the mind dwells more on the strength, it would automatically alleviate, lessen the weakness which is synonymous with suffering. Weakness is synonymous with suffering . We do not deny a situation for that moment that which causes us pain. We do not deny the thorn that has pricked in our toe and has caused the pain, we do not deny that, but I am not going to limp around with that thorn in my toe. I'm going to take it out . Immediately I take it out, I don’t need to limp. That suffering then was only momentary because I've gone <0:57:22.4> I do not delude – need to delude myself that everything is rosy, everything is beautiful, no it’s not necessary but we have to look at the situation in its right perspective and the right perspective of looking at a situation is not from the standpoint of weakness, but from the standpoint of strength. That is how suffering just fades away. Now how do we get to reach the
13. SA76-03 standpoint of strength? It is by doing our spiritual practices regularly. It gives us the strength to develop that standpoint of strength. Is that okay Kiran? Good. Public: Gururaj – umm – first of all I want to thank you again for answering all the questions that I was goi ng to ask you. Gururaj: (Laughs) Public: < 0:58:22.4 > negative attitude and empty attitude <0:58:30.0 > this I – I've experienced exactly what you have said about it, but isn’t < 0:58:38.9 > the fact that we try to respond negatively and < 0:58:43.2 > and this is our biggest weakness? Gururaj: That is a weakness, yes. That is very true. Yes, it is biggest weakness. Umm— the art of life, the secret of life is to turn any situation always to one's advantage. Always to turn any situation to an advantage and its very easily done – it is very easily done just by regulating our thought processes. How do we regulate our thought processes? How do we learn that art? It is by going to the wise. We go to the wise, we hear what they say, we hear, we think and we digest. The three Sanskrit words for that is Sravana, Manana and Nididhyasana. We listen, we mull over it, think about it and we digest it. So what happens in digestion? When we digest a thought, we are putting the thought into practice. The food that goes in our stomachs only has value if it is digested. It is only by the food being digested that it can nourish, regenerate, invigorate the various cells of our body. Okay? Public: What would and what should < 1:00:43.0 > if somebody is negative, strongly negative towards us? < 1:00:48.4 > Gururaj: Every religion has taught, including Christ that someone slaps you on one cheek, you know the story, turn the other cheek. Someone hates us, we try and show love. The other – the other day I said – the other day I said that a person will hate us or be negative towards us because they don’t love us, right. So now forget the other person, if I start loving, then I can only become lovable. I said that yesterday. If I start loving, in spite of the other person's feelings, I'm not concerned, I'm not responsible for the other person’s mind. Why should I be responsible for the other person's mind? I am responsible for my mind and my mind and my heart makes me loving and if my loving is sincere, then I as my reward, become lovable. Then that very person that had negative thoughts for me or hated me will cease being negative towards me , will start loving me. So you see how this works? One thing affects the other. I, by loving make myself lovable, by making myself lovable, I'm not only benefitting myself, but I am benefitting my brother also he that first thought of me negatively in that way I am my brother's keeper. In that way I too look after my brother. I am helping him just by loving
14. SA76-03 him. It works in a circle, you cannot separate one from the other. It is so beautiful, so practical – practical – practical, so liveable. Because it is so liveable, it is so lovable, yes, always – always. Public: Gururaj, I’ll – I’ ll ask another one and I – please, I'm not trying to be offensive to anybody but I – I'm a simple person, I've got really small mind inside my skull, I have to think with a limited vocabulary. I have some questions and I've heard <1:03:55.9> so advanced, so complicated I'm using the words which are outside of my sphere of knowledge. Umm- - <1:04:05.9> that they have reached the stage of <1:04:12.2> over everything around us that they are moving onto another plain or should they rather simplify the attitude and well as we are all trying to <1:04:24.8> Gururaj: How did you know that we discuss this yesterday? (Laughs). We discussed it yesterday. Umm – when a man really knows what he's talking about, that man can be very simple. Once a person knows the essence of what he is talking about, he can portray that in the most simplest form. Now my favourite one was this said by a teacher in journalism, you know that – that stanza umm -- <1:05:06.5> something – something like that, I don’t remember it. It's – it's perfect English – it's perfect English, but you know what it means? Twinkle twinkle little star (Laughs) Now I don’t see – I don’t see why people can't really use that phrase, twinkle twinkle little star instead of <1:05:30.1> right. Now when a person lacks the knowledge of his subject, then he tries to cover the lack of knowledge by the effusiveness of words. Words could be so beautiful and I have always found the greatest beauty in simplicity, yes. I have heard speakers that – that get lost in the words. To get lost in words, as a poet, is something far different than to get lost in words which are just from the mind and not from the heart, yes. Public: But just a word, bapuji, for the – for the worthy (laughs) couldn’t one say that perhaps individuals who are captivated momentary even if <1:06:37.7> long period of time are in the beginning stages of gnan yoga where they’re trying to grasp an understanding in life through intellectualising <1:06:48.9> Gururaj: it's fine, you're perfectly right in saying that, but of course the question there was of the teacher, not the beginner. Pu blic: Yes. Gururaj: Right, you began where you are and how you are and – and if you're given to the effusiveness of words, by all means that's also a way and we improve and we progress that way as long as we don’t claim to be masters. But when a man claims to be a master and shows certain lacks in that way, by covering up the lack of wisdom by the means of words,
15. SA76-03 then the man should not call himself a master. But for such a man who does that, we send him good thoughts and we send him love and compassion. Yes, simple thoughts. Plenty of love and plenty of compassion sent very simply. Public: Is there any < 1:07:56.6 > say that if one can – if one can break up the absolute into < 1:08:06.5 > and I presume its written in the Vedas as well and some books of knowle dge, I should think it would be the eastern – umm – to break that god into very many divisions, for example, saying the stage of self realisation and perhaps that's something more advanced to a god - realisation and then perhaps something < 1:08:29.0> . now ar e these meaningful? Or is it – would there be any use in having knowledge of such divisions to people such as ourselves or you know can it < 1:08:46.5 > Gururaj: Yes, -- umm—that is very true. But the thing is this that all these divisions, these divisions are only sub-divisions of one. Fine! Now beyond the three states we know as waking, dreaming and sleeping, there's only one other state which is Turia in Sanskrit , which is the transcendent state. Now some teachers to make the transcendent state seem a very – very difficult thing perhaps, they try and define it and go to various levels in the definition. Such teachers might be catering for people that are intellectually orientated but not necessarily heart orientated. So perhaps such teachers try to show people that are just mentally inclined that even within the indivisible, there is division. Such philosophers try and divide that which is undividable. It could be fair to those people that try to seek that truth with their minds, but yet the same very teachers – teachers teach you to go beyond the mind. What a terrible contradiction. Here with teachings, you delve a person, involve a person, confuse a person in dividing that which is in – undividable and then on the other hand you say, “you go beyond the mind.” Public: But guruji didn’t you say that – umm — all aspects of life < 1:11:09.9 > Gururaj: All aspects of life? Public :< 1:11:14.5 > Gururaj: All levels of life are valid. We are not questioning the validity of any singular or collective aspect. We are trying to go in the motive and the purpose of any confusion that might exist. Any contradiction that might exist are the contractors justified in doing that? My answers are always based on the questions and the level of questions that are asked. The answers, not only answers, the apparent value of the question, but I know when a questioner questions, I know what goes on in the questioners mind, heart and soul. We are not denying the validity. This carpet in front of me here, we can take it
16. SA76-03 as one carpet, or you can take it as 10,000 stitches. It does not make the 10,000 stitches unvalid, not valid. They are valid. The 10,000 stitches are valid. How are we looking at the carpet? That is the question. Are we looking at the stitches or are we looking at the carpet as a whole in its oneness? Can you appreciate this beautiful Persian by looking at the stitches only? Or can you appreciate this beautiful design looking at the carpet as one whole? Can you appreciate that which is beyond the three states we know that which is in the turia state? Can you really appreciate it by dividing it or can you really appreciate the turia state, the transcendent state by it coming to us as one beautiful complete whole as this beautiful carpet is that can be appreciated by our hearts and minds too? Yes, to a great extent. So teachers have their methods and they teach to certain kinds of people that follow those methods and follow those teachings. Good. As long as some understanding is gained and confusion is lessened, it is good. Okay? I spoke a bit strongly on this. Good? Okay. Let’s have tea.
3. SA76-03 Public: < 0:10:20.4 > say a st atue about say, Michael Angelou, would his inspiration be embodied in sound < 0:10:34.7 > Gururaj: Oh yes, a creator can never be separated from his creation. They are part and parcel of each other. An artist can never be separated from his or her painting, a true artist. Because that painting should contain in it the heart quality, mind quality, body quality, spirit quality of the person. So when you phrased your question previously that does the table exist in the sound? It does, it exists in a subtle level that by hearing the sound, the qualified person could conjure up that table in front of him. When we hear the word table, then because of association of ideas and because of what we have learnt and that our teachers and parents have told us that this is a table and therefore because of association of ideas, when we hear the word table, we see in our mind's eye the table. That is the ordinary average person, but the highly evolved person can hear a sound and immediately see the embodiment of the sound. An enlightened person, he might hear the word Shiva and then immediately in front of him Shiva is there. We hear the name Violet, our Violet for example. An enlightened person, as soon as he says the word Violet, he conjures Violet up in front of her – in front of him and transmits a certain energy, a certain force that might be required in that particular moment by Violet. This is part and parcel of our teachings, this is another form of expressing the communication that exists between a guru and his chela. Immediately the word Violet is there, is presented, the form of Violet too is presented before the guru and he sees, oh you're depressed my child? Why? And certain energies are set into motion whereby that depression disappears. If the person is – is that true Violet? (Laughs) Public: < 0:13:41.3 > Gururaj Laughs) Good – good, beautiful – beautiful – beautiful. So if a person is confused in an idea, im mediately by forming the link, by Smaran, in Sanskrit which means remembrance. Remembrance of guru, god or goodness. If it is activated by a living guru, by en embodied guru, then the confusion there and then, it depends how strongly the channel is formed. It depends upon us very much how we open up the channel. It’s like a carburettor of a motor car, carburettor. If it is dirty, full of dirt, the petrol would not flow through smoothly and the car won’t run properly, but if the carburettor is clean, the petrol flows through smoothly and of course it just depends upon you to press on the accelerator to make the car go as fast as you want it to go. So when we achieve a certain amount of that purity within ourselves, when we cleanse ourselves by the practices of our meditations and by living to a certain sense of goodness, we do develop the link between guru and chela. Yes, and that is how, to repeat again, we enjoy the benefits. Not necessarily that – that benefit might not be activated by what is imparted to us, because external forces are not apart from internal forces. It is one
6. SA76-03 Last week I gave you the analogy of the clay where you'll find one form in the shape of a mouse and the other form in the shape of the elephant. What is real there and what is actual there? The mouse is real, the elephant is real, but what is actual? The clay. So we always, in our study of philosophy, through the mind level and a deep understanding of these things, through our spiritual practices and mediation, we try to get to the actuality, the essence of things and everybody must reach there. Everyone, no one is denied that, it is his birth right because it is inherent in him, he cannot lift a finger without that. He cannot lift a single breath without that activation of the infinite value of man. Whichever act he does, how gross or how subtle, he is still grossly or subtly activating that essence and being his birthright, being his essence, the inherent activator in him and with him, him all the time. He cannot deny it. That is why people believe in God. They canno t see god in its abstract value, but they see god in its concrete value or relative value. They cannot help it. All right? Public: Gururaj, certain techniques in yoga is described a so called < 0:30:28.5 > by relativity which one could be quite inspiration or expiration as one breathe. How important is it < 0:30:38.1 > state where you are no longer in the relative field physically, but < 0:30:46.4 > that you're no longer breathing in and breathing out? Could you speak --- Gururaj: Now – now of course you're speaking of two levels, one is the level of man that requires to breathe and the other is the level of the yogi that does not require to breathe, is that what you mean? Public: Yes, I think I was < 0:31:06.9 > and certain techniques of the yoga which I've read about which maintained that when one reaches a very high level of awareness, one enters into a so called breathless state, I think Some < 0:31:23.1 > where the mind is at a very subtle level and the life processes of the physical body slow down < 0:31:32.4 > Gururaj: Slow down – that is very true. What you have read is correct, because in the process of Samadhi, everything slows down, the life of a man is not to be measured by how many years he lives, but by how many breaths he takes. The more rapidly you breathe, the more rapidly you breathe, the shorter your life span becomes. Now through practices of these techniques, you develop the art of gaining maximum and doing little. You develop that. So your breathing rate does slow down, o yes, o yes it does. And even yogis in this state of Samadhi cannot exist without breath. It is not an outward breathing, but it is taking in a breath or suspending a breath whereby the subtler prana, the -- the breathing we know that is a very gross outward expression of that subtle prana upon which the yogi can exist. So he still has breath in a different form, in a subtler form. The bible agrees with that, when – when it says that life was breathe into man to make the man alive, something to that effect, is it? Yes, that's what it means. The subtlety, the subtle power, the subtle energy that's in man and one can exist with that subtle energy, that subtle breathe, yes that's true., very true. Good.
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