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1. U S 81 - 26 PUBLIC TALK RAPID FIRE GURURAJ: ...never prepare a talk. I found one thing, tha t by preparing a talk then I would be telling you what I want to tell you. I'd rather like you to ask me any question you like. The more philosophical, the more deeper it is, the better, perhaps. But it wouldn't matter either. So who would like to ask a ny question? Can you hear me at the back? VOICES: No. GURURAJ: Pity we don't have a P.A. system. I'll try and raise the voice, if I can. [PAUSE] The silence before the storm. Please. VOICE: Is this type of meditation like transcendental meditatio n? [???????] how does it compare? GURURAJ: Right, fine. Good. We'll get on to that. Some more questions. I can cover a dozen at a time. VOICE: Would you say something about world peace? GURURAJ: About world peace. Never heard of it. [LAUGHTER] Mind you, one could, one could talk about peace from various platforms: the political platform, the church platform, [INAUDIBLE] platform. There was this one minister who was used to being very verbose. He used to keep on talking and talking and talking. So he had a distinguished visitor who, after the sermon he asked this person, "Did you like my sermon?" So the visitor said, "It was like the peace and mercy of God." So this preacher was ver y flattered. He said, "How can you compare?" So he said that, "Your sermon was like peace that passeth all understanding. And like his mercy, I thought it would go on forever." [LAUGHTER] Peace. What is peace? If we study the history of the world, ha s there every been peace? Peace could never be had collectively. Peace is always an individual thing that one can create for oneself. For we are all units of one whole. Each and every atom that exists in this universe is connected to each other. And i f you can find that peace within yourself be sure to know that the very emanation, the very vibration will spread peace around you. So the whole method to try and find peace....

2. U S 81 - 26 There will never be an age of enlightenment that is supposed to be all peac e. It has never been so. In this entire process of evolution we view things in a very small perspective. For this whole process is but one vast continuum. And in this vast continuum we are somewhere there in a little field. So what happens is this, th at as people become more and more evolved and they pass this particular range, those of lesser evolution would come into this very field. So within the framework of our universe there's not a single ounce of energy that could be added, and not a single ou nce that could be subtracted. The quantity and the quality will forever remain the same. And the entire universe is nothing but vibrations. Vibrations solidifying itself or vibrations being congealed make them perceptible to us, to our five senses: hear ing, seeing, touching, smelling, etc. Hm? Good. Now, how is this done? If the universe is nothing but vibrations, then vibration is accompanied by motion. And to have any form of motion, as physics will tell you, there will always have to be conflicts. There will always have to be polarity. In other words, this universe is governed by the law of polarity, by the law of opposites. If you have heat, you will have cold. If you have sun , you will have rain. And this goes on and on. So how could we ever think of world peace or universal peace? That would be a fallacy. There could never be that. But there could be individual peace. And finding individual peace is like becoming a flower. It is the nature of a flower t o be beautiful, but that is not the only thing it does, it also beautifies the entire garden. And that is the duty of man. That is his dharma. That should be his way of life, to spread his fragrance to the world. But if you do not have that peace within yourself, then how are you going to spread it? Now, this can be achieved through meditation and spiritual practices. Man has three aspects to himself: the physical, the mental, and the spiritual aspects. Now, these three things are not apart from each other, but they are a part of each other. It is one vast continuum. But because man does not function in totality, this division is created. And it is created by the mental self of man, the subtle body of man. So you have the gross, physical body. You have the subtle, mental body. And you have the spiritual body, which is, to use theological terms, the Kingdom of Heaven within. And it is said, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven within, then all else shall be added unto thee." Now, that is the purpose of meditation and spiritual p ractices: to find that abode where peace resides. That is the only way to find peace within yourself. For after all, what is peace? Peace is but an integration of mind, body, and spirit. And it is so easily achieved by everyone. To be able to do spiri tual practices would be the path to lead you to a tranquility. And wherever there is integration there will be this tranquility. Now, the question arises, that why are we not peaceful? Why are we not at peace within ourselves? And no amount of belief ca n bring this peace to you, because belief is just a conception. And the conception depends upon your own personal awareness. How aware are you. So there again peace is an individual matter. And the greater the awareness

3. U S 81 - 26 you have, the more wider would b e your perspective. And the wider the perspective you have, the greater and greater feeling of peace would you find. And that peace comes to you peacefully without any effort. It is all inbuilt within you. You do not need to look for it outside. There was this one fellow, what do you call it in America? One guy. Hm? He used to go into one shop to buy a soft drink every time. And he was served in those cans. You get them here, a can of soft drinks. You call it pop. Pop. And he used to sit down and take out his can opener. He used to open the can and he used to drink. But this excited the curiosity of the shopkeeper. So after a few weeks the shopkeeper approached him and said, "Look, this tin has this little gadget that you have to pull up, and it opens the can for you." So this man says, "That is okay for people that don't have can openers." [LAUGHTER] So constantly people are searching outside them, when the opening of the can is inbuilt. So why do we seek can openers when you, in reality, are integrated people. You are children of the divine. You are Divinity itself. For without you Divinity cannot exist. And you cannot exist without Divinity, as fragrance cannot exist without the flower. So, the Unmanifest or the Manifestor cannot exist without its manifestation. Now, being the manifestation of the Manifestor, why are people in such turmoil? Has the Manifestor got impurities or imperfections? Theology will tell you that God is perfect, but is it true? Is it true or is it just a concept ion of yours? Does Divinity exist? Has Divinity created you, or have you created Divinity? And if you have created Divinity, why? Because of need that you create something supernatural. Why have you created something supernatural? Because you don't u nderstand what is natural. You do not need anything supernatural. But by finding this integration through spiritual practices you become at one with nature. You flow with nature and not against nature. That is conflict producing and therefore you are n ot at peace with yourself. Now, let us take the assumptions of all theologies that the Manifestor, they call Him Creator, that the Manifestor is perfect . Where does this imperfection come from? Because nothing can come from nothing, and very little for five cents. Good. Let us use an analogy. It is the very sun... through the heat of the sun water evaporates and forms itself into clouds. An d these very clouds obscure the sun creating darkness down here. So believe this, if you wish to, for I do not speak from the mind, I speak from experience only, that even those clouds that exist are for a purpose, you need that rain. So that which you regard to be imperfect still contains perfection within itself. It depends upon your perspective to find perfec tion even in that which is so seemingly imperfect. For there is nothing imperfect in this world. But because the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are not put together, these little pieces seem senseless, meaningless. But once the jigsaw is done up, what a be autiful picture you have. But it is up to you to put these pieces together. And that is called integration. And integration is none else but peace. That is peace. That is grace. That is Divinity. Put on any label you like, for labels will

4. U S 81 - 26 forever rem ain labels. What we are after is the essence. And once we find the essence, the question in everyone's mind, the one major question which all of you have asked yourself sometime or the other, "Who am I," will be answered. So to find this peace can never be done through the mind. It can never be done through the mind, for every problem you solve will create a dozen other problems. And when you solve those, they will create more and more and more problems, so you don't feel at ease. Dis ease, that is the disease of mankind not to find that peace that turmoil, that turbulence. So, as I said a moment ago, peace is not a thing of rationalization. You cannot rationalize it. But you can find it by experience. So peace is an experiential thing. Who ex periences peace, shall we ask that question? Do you experience peace? Huh? If you do, which part of you experiences peace? Just but the ego self experiences peace or non peace. For the ego self of man through all his millions and millions of experience s, through so many ages past, right from the mineral kingdom, through the present stage of man, all those experiences are contained within you. The entirety, all knowledge of the universe, is within your brain box. And yet, out of these twelve billion ce lls out of this three pound in weight brain we use only one millionth part of it. The rest is lying dormant, totally dormant. So by doing spiritual practices, by doing meditations especially prescribed to your needs by someone who knows could show you t he path. He does not shine the light upon you, but shines the light on the path. And you have to walk with your own feet. You have to go solo. You have to go solo. You have to do it alone. A guru is just but a guide. If you come to a strange town an d you lose your way, you ask someone, "How do I reach this place?" And he will show you: turn left, then right, and right, and left. He will show you how to reach the place you want to be at. So at that moment, for that purpose, he is your guru. So a g uru is a guide. But he can only guide you. You have to drive yourself or walk yourself. You know Paderewski, the great musician, met a polo player once. I'm sure most of you have heard Paderewski's work. Great, great musician. He was Polish. Fine. S o he met this man one day, this society fellow that played polo. And they were sitting down having a discussion about each other's work. So Paderewski says, "You're a dear soul that plays polo. And I'm a poor Pole that plays solo." [LAUGHTER] Oh, yes. So the spiritual path is a path is a path which you have to walk on alone solo. You have to walk on alone. Guides are many. But then just to pick up books and to read various methods and to start practicing them would be a method of trial and error. It would be like a shelf full of medicine bottles and you try one after the other. But if there is a physician available, if there is a physician available and if he gives you the prescription, tells you this is the medicine y ou must use, one teaspoon t hree times a day or whatever, and the cure comes quicker. And yet the physician is not curing you. Your body cures itself. And whatever he prescribes is only a help for you to cure yourself. Right. So we have to have a holistic approach to life. And b y having the holistic approach to life, we find that peace, that peace that passeth all understanding. And this can only be achieved experientially. So when that peace is found from within, it

5. U S 81 - 26 does not stay within only. Through spiritual practices as yo u lead the mind to dive deeper and deeper to its deepest layers, there is where peace resides. And you don't come back empty handed. You bring some of it out with you every time you make a visit. It's like you spending half an hour in a perfume factory , you'll come out smelling like perfume. See. That is the secret. And I would never compare our system of meditation to any other person's systems. I condemn nothing, I condone nothing, and I do not compare. A certain kind of doctor might be good for y ou, another doctor might be good for another person. But the idea is to go beyond belief, to go beyond faith, and to reach the land of knowingness. You believe that there is (Can you hear me better now? I'm trying to do my best. Okay. Fine.) You beli eve that there is fire outside this room fireplace someone tells you about it. You believe that there is a fireplace burning there. But as you approach nearer th e fire you feel the warmth. Then you start having faith. But when you get consumed in the fire, become one with the fire, then you have experienced the fire. So the experience of peace is none else but to experience Divinity itself. To be consumed in it. Not an entity somewhere far away. Not an entity that is not experiencable. But th e Divinity we seek for is a Divinity that can be experienced every moment of our lives. The living God, that is what is required. And by experiencing that you find the peace. Hundreds of reformers have come into this world that try to show people ways to peace. And that ended up in so much bloodshed. We know the history. But is that the way to peace, when man himself knows nothing of peace himself, except some, hm? So the proof of the pudding lies in the eating, not in the description of it. For any p rofessor that has studied philosophies he would know all the philosophies of the world. And you as his student would learn of all these things. But they can only tell you about it and not what it is. You have to experience it yourself. And the path is so simple. It is so simple. Divinity is further than the furthest, nearer than the nearest, larger than the largest, and yet smaller than the smallest. We've put Him at a place so far away from ourselves, so far away. And yet the very act of raising thi s hand, the very act of breathing is an expression of that Divinity itself. Our heart's beating in its own rhythm. We're not even aware . We're never even aware when we breathe. Millions of cells in this body work in a coordinated manner to keep this li ttle bag of bones and blood going. And we are unaware even of this body. Do you see. But once we reach some stage of integration we would start experiencing that peace. The awareness expands. The opaqueness of the ego self, the mental self, dissipates itself through spiritual practices. People use mostly the left hemisphere of the brain, which is analytical, rationalizing all the time. And yet the right hemisphere, the intuitional connection that it has with the realit y within, is totality forgotten. So through spiritual practices both the sides of the brain, which is but a physiological counterpart of the mind, starts acting in unison, starts acting in harmony. And the reason why you do not feel this peace is because the right and the left sides of the physical organ called the brain is not functioning in harmony.

6. U S 81 - 26 So spiritual practices creates this harmony where, where the forces residing deep within can be translated to some extent by the rational mind. And then the rational mind says, "I feel at peace today. I feel happy today." For all these words ar e but lab els of the same thing. Peace is happiness. Peace is joy. Peace is that feeling of oneness with everything around you. That is peace. And yet this is just a mere, small description for that which is indescribable, unspeakable, ineffable. Do you see the grandeur, the glory of that peace? And the mind can only appreciate a little of it. But the experience makes you burst my cup runneth over. That is the peace we want. And that is achieved through these very simple techniques of meditation which are individually prescribed for individuals, for there are no two people that are totally alike. There are differences. Even in identical twins there are differences. But the spiritual master who has gone through the path, with one glance, going into medit ation knows the causes of the turbulence and he knows it intuitively. No analysis is required. Do you see. So one must not separate the spiritual path from the worldly path. It has to be a combination, for what you call material I call spirit. For that too is a manifestation of the Manifestor. So there's nothing wrong with this world. It is because individuals do not experience this peace, and the collective emanation of these feelings of hate and anger and all those so called negative things which co me about because of this non experience of peace, that creates world chaos. People talk of creation. Once there were three chaps sitting together. The one was a surgeon. The other an architect. And the third one was a politician. Fine. So the surgeo n says that in the creation of the world Eve was made out of Adam's rib. So it was a surgical matter. So the architect says there was so much chaos, and to bring order into chaos is an architectural job. And the politician says, "But who created the cha os first?" [LAUGHTER] Yes. Politicians are not people that could bring peace to this world. And I would challenge any politician on any public platform . No, the entirety of their policies, from whichever angle you look at it, from whichever angle you loo k at it, has a selfish motive and not a selfless motive. Motives can be selfless. Preservation of certain ideals. What ideals? To manufacture bigger and bigger bombs, nuclear bombs, neutron bombs, to find peace in this world? To hold it against the he ads of others so that they don't try any of their stunts? Can that ever bring peace? Can you ever find peace with a sword? No. No. I wish educationists would pay greater attention while teaching ABC'S or the three R's to children. To teach them, give them some idea of what integration is about. Where man can function in totality. We function partially and not in totality. People can't even make love in totality. And then we seek peace. Yeah. It is... In making love the mind functions, the body func tions and you are totally unaware of the spirit. But when these three aspects of man functions as a whole, then the lover disappears, the beloved disappears and only love remains [problems with the

7. U S 81 - 26 mike]. Do you see. And like that we can quote every i nstance in our lives. So many incidences happening every day and we find it distasteful. We find it distasteful. We find it none peace producing. More and more turmoil. And we put emphasis on the turmoil. We put emphasis on the waves of the ocean that are forever in motion. But what causes those waves? It is but the silent currents in the depths of the ocean that produces those waves, for are those waves not part of the ocean? Is it not the ocean? So with greater awareness the entire picture, panor amic view, could be taken in at a glance and the peace which is your inherent right, for Divinity being omnipresent dwells in everything in the turbulent waves as well as the ocean. So with the expansion of awareness our total attitude towards life would c hange and we would see things holistically. And by seeing things holistically, the peace that is within us is never disturbed. Now what is the process? How can we see things holistically? We can only perceive with the mind. And yet underlying the cons cious mind we have the subconscious mind, which the psychologists talk about. And yet they've only touched a little surface of the subconscious mind. There are still deeper and deeper and deeper layers which contains the entire history of the universe. And beyond that we have the superconscious level of the mind. So through spiritual practices we create a channel from the conscious level through the layers of the subconscious to the superconscious level of the mind. And that is still like the stillness in the depths of the ocean. And when this channel is created, then the force, the light that shines through the superconscious level permeates the subconscious mind, corrects the imbalances that there are in it. In reality there are no imbalances, but c ontradiction of experiences. Different kinds of experiences conflicting with each other and creating the turmoil which in turn is passed on to the conscious mind and your senses become restless, without peace. So now when this channel is created to the su perconscious level of the mind, which is at the finest relative, which is at the finest relative, then the full force of the light of the Absolute shines thr ough. And that light is peace or God. Do you see. And this can be experienced. This can be expe rienced. It has been proven over and over again. Any of you people that are not meditators I would guarantee that within sixty days you will start experiencing something. Some change will come about. Because you do not need to go and find those can ope ners. You have the built in thingamajig to open the can. It's there. You've got it. You've only got to be shown how, that's all. And then all the why 's disappear. So in the process of meditation so many things are taken into consideration: the person 's state of evolution, his mental condition, his physical condition, and what kind of practices to prescribe to bring about a harmony in these three aspects of man.

8. U S 81 - 26 So man must be treated holistically. I know about two, three years ago I was invited to a symposium in Las Vegas. So there was a physician who spoke from the physical angle, and a psychiatrist who spoke from the mental angle, and I spoke from the spiritual angle. And I remember telling them, there were lots of doctors and psychiatrists and al l present, and I was telling them that, "Treat the person holistically. What you are doing is just treating the symptoms." So the psychiatrist said, "We try and find the causes of the problems." So you keep on digging and digging into the subconscious c reating more problems and more confusion. Yes. And the relief that could be gained is never lasting. It is transitory and temporary. But we want a permanent cure to the turbulence. We want that eternal peace to abide within and be conscious of it and experience it. That's the important thing, to experience that peace. So I told them that man must be treated holistically. So you doctors and psychologists must try and gain some knowledge of that which is so deep within you, that Kingdom of Heaven. An d once you have this integration, as I said a moment ago, then the question, "Who am I?" would cease. How would it cease? Because you will realize yourself to be divine. Children of God, that's what you are. Children of God. It is just to be realized . Just to be experienced. That is all! [END SIDE ONE] GURURAJ: ...for all I have said have been said millions of times before, yes, by all the sages of the past. It's been said over and over again. What I am trying to do is bring the eternal message of a Krishna, of a Buddha, of a Christ. In modern terminology how it could apply to today's man to bring him the peace that is so much, or if not more, needed today in this time of turmoil. You see. World peace is a dream. Individual peace is a realit y. You will remember that? Good. Yes. Instead of speaking on a question for an hour, I think we could have a rapid fire thing, if you like. So, questions answered shortly, briefly. Something like that. The choice is yours. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] said something about the worldly path. The spiritual path, and then the worldly path. And I come from a tradition that speaks a lot about justice and charity and good deeds. How does the... I come from this tradition, I don't necessarily practice it. [PAR TIALLY INAUDIBLE] How does the spiritual experience that you achieve in meditation lead to a more richer, fuller life in this world? GURURAJ: That's right. That's very simple, really. You water the plant. That is spirituality. And the plant or the flower grows in its tangible form. So that is how you infuse spirituality into materiality. Where everything... the stage comes

9. U S 81 - 26 when everything seems divine. For whatever the Creator has created can be nothing else but part of Himself. A composer comp oses, it is part of himself. A painter paints. The painting is not apart from the painter. So everything around us, all that we term to be materiality, is in reality divine. And so, my friend, you, too, are divine. SAME VOICE: [I've read that?] some flowers cast their seeds and their fragrance [INAUDIBLE] into the world and spread their glory and radiance to the world. Some flowers bloom where there is hardly any... GURURAJ: [INTERRUPTING] And they just fade away in the desert air. SAME VOICE: Exactly. GURURAJ: Very true. Very true. Very true. That happens. But let it keep on happening. What is the duty of a spiritual teacher? He goes planting. Some seeds will fall on fertile ground, some on barren ground, some on the rocks for the birds of the air. But what is his job is to go on planting. You see. So great men have walked this little Earth of ours, a nd yet why is this entire world not transformed into that beautiful peace? So this goes on. But only if some heart is to uched somewhere. I go around the world speaking to thousands of people. There are some that sees some light, that's enough. Why do you want to be self realized? You don't need to be self realized like that. But as long as you are on the path. And th is is what all of these great teachers, like Patanjali too would say, many of them have evolved systems, yama nyama observances, right, restraints, asanas, pranayama control of breath control of body. Pratyahara, how to take oneself away from one's senses. Then dharana dhyana samadhi, finally into that peace. So everyone is destined to find that peace, to find that eternal joy. You cannot escape it. You must reach. You are pushed on by the forces of evolution to reach. But why wait for millions of years, when it can be done in this lifetime. That's all. You know, God created this world and He made man last. But then when he turned around and saw what He made, He ran away. And religion is all about how to try and bring Him back. That's religio n. Next. Someone had a hand up here somewhere. VOICE: You talked about the ego self, and then you talked about another self. How do you find it? What is it? Is it the same as God? And what is this all about?

10. U S 81 - 26 GURURAJ: The ego is a superimposition o n that which we call God. It is a collection of experiences. And many experiences, as I said, could be conflicting. And this very conflict keeps the forces of evolution in motion all the time. So for man to find that Divinity within himself, he has to b ring about a greater clarity in the ego self. The ego self in reality is just but the reflection in the mirror. So by spiritual practices we clean the mirror, and therefore we would see a truer reflection of what we are. Then we can really answer or rea lize what the Bible means when it says, "Man know thyself." And the only reason why we can't see ourselves clearly is because the window, the mirror, is dirty. And the process is cleaning up the mirror so we could get the true reflection through the ego self of the real self which you actually are. The ego is real in relativity, while the Absolute is real in its absoluteness. Manifestor: manifestation. That's all. And that's how problems are solved. They are not solved exteriorly. They are solved insi de. So one has to dive deep within to be able to find the destiny for which you are meant. And if you develop awareness, you will not find the path so arduous. It is not in attainment, but in attaining. Now, man's mind must come to such an awareness tha t even in the attaining, not in attainment, but even in attaining he should find that joy and that peace. And he can find it. For after a ll the path and the end are but one. Then you could say, "I am thee, my beloved." There's a lovely Persian poem wh ich I'm very, very fond of. I'll say it to you. Give you a rough translation in English. Because I know you might understand Persian, but I'm not taking the chance. [LAUGHTER] This lover went to his beloved and knocked on the door. She asked, "Who is i t?" And he replied, "I am Jack Jones." So the door was not opened. The second day he went again and he knocked, and she asked, "Who is it?" And he said I'm So and So, Jack Jones of Bourbonnais. The door was not opened. And when at the third day he we nt and knocked on the door and she asked who is it, he replied, "I am thee, my beloved." And the door was immediately opened. Do you see how beautiful it is? Now, that is the realization man has to come to, that I and my Father are non separate. I am His flesh. I am His blood that sacred communion. So beautiful, so nice. So why be like the fish in the water and still dying of thirst. Where is the sense when Divinity is everywhere, all aroun d, all the time. And the fish dies of thirst and all the water is there. Yeah. Next. VOICE: Are there spiritual practices that would help one to remember past lives? It seems to me it would be very helpful if you knew where you were coming from... [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: [INTERRUPTING] Right. Now, there are spiritual practices I could teach you that will make you remember past lives. But I would not recommend it.

11. U S 81 - 26 VOICE: Why? GURURAJ: I would not recommend it because it would be a stumbling block in the path to Divinity. Right. Let me explain this further. You start remembering what happened last week or last month where Auntie Mary said some harsh word to you and you worry about it today. You worry about Auntie Matilda that passed away. She might be waltzing up there. Waltzing Matilda, huh? [LAU GHTER] What do you know? Right. Fine. So if we worry so much and get the mind so much confused of this little lifetime and you can't be more than thirty, huh? then what if you remembered all the happenings of previous lives. People always like t o think, you know, when they want to go into past lives, Oh, I must have been Queen Victoria, or Cleopatra or, you know? There was this one person who inherited a lot of money. But now with the money she wanted a title. So she wrote into a firm, you know , to trace her family tree. And this firm found out that a great great grandfather of hers was a murderer. But now how to put it to this important client. So they wrote back that, "Your great great grandfather expired while occupying the chair for appli ed electricity." [LAUGHTER] You see. So the greatest gift given to man by God is the ability to forget. Do not dwell on past lives. Do not. It will be very confusing. It would be very painful. For you are the sum totality today of past lives. Now , this is a point of view of psychologists that you try and find causes to find the cure. The mystic, the guru, has a different approach altogether: that if it is dark don't analyze darkness, switch on the light. You can flick it on with one finger and t he darkness is vanished. Do you see. Do spiritual practices, eliminate the darkness. And all cure is there. For you are whole. It is... conception s that you have, attitudes you have in mind that makes you fragmented. Now, through spiritual practices b y gaining this vaster awareness, then you realize that you have been whole. It's like the musk deer smelling the fragrance and ran hither and thither and all over to find the source of this fragrance. And in total exhaustion it fell down, nearly dying. And he discovered that the musk was in its own navel. Do you see. So we chase around here, there, and everywhere for that peace, and yet it is there within us all the time. That's where musk comes from, by the way. You know, the perfumes you use. It's stuff, you know, that gathers the dirt in the navel of the deer. That's where musk comes from. And talking of perfume and things like that, this bishop he blasted out in his sermons, you know, about cosmetics. He says, "Down with cosmetics," and this, t hat, and the other. And then he said, "The more I experiment with lipstick, the more distasteful it becomes." [LAUGHTER] Good. Okay? Next.

12. U S 81 - 26 VOICE: Is there a distinction between the ego and the soul? GURURAJ: Ah, beautiful question. I could talk to you for two hours on this. The ego is the soul. You do not possess a soul. Your mind and body is the soul. But there is a difference between the soul and the spirit. The soul is cluttered by experience s and expressions, in Sanskrit they call it samskaras, while the spirit is forever pure. The spirit is like the lotus. Although it is growing in mud, it is never touched. It remains pure. SAME VOICE: I'm trying to speak, really, of just the simple exp erience of my own awareness, which is that of possessing what I call a soul. And then I see the activities and thoughts of my life and perhaps past lives as being something that happens to and about, but not really within. Because that is always the same . GURURAJ: Look, you are the soul, and the soul is the ego, and the ego is mind. So one level of the mind is experiencing another level of the mind. That's it. I was telling someone, "Who experiences what?" Having a chat in the foyer there while havin g tea. And I said you will reach a stage where there will be no experiencer apart from the experience. So, in reality, experience experiences itself. Yah. It'll take you a long time to think about that one. Experience experiences itself. But that i s from a totally different level. From this level the mind... one section of the mind experiences another section. The analysis is put into... the computer is fed. But it's all in the mind. All in the mind. You feed the data in the computer and you get your answer. But you will only get the answer according to the data you feed in. So feed in data of Divinity. Ah, there'll be a different answer. Next. Yes? VOICE: Before when you were speaking about peace within the self, you were drawing an analogy talking about [INAUDIBLE] a thundercloud, and how when it covered the sun one could experience something negative which in reality was a part of a larger totality and therefore something that was really very good. It seems to me, though, that there are s ome experiences in life that I cannot understand as being part of a larger totality and being good. And that in trying to find the internal peace, I'm lying to myself for not really looking [at?] the truth. A situation that I don't feel the world is all good, and all events are always the way they should be. Or productive or part of a larger [positive?] whole.

13. U S 81 - 26 GURURAJ: Oh, yes. That is very true. And ninety nine point nine, nine, nine percent of people think the way you are thinking. So you are in good company. Not bad, good company. Now, this is because of a conditioning of your mind. From childhood certain do's and don'ts have been thrown at you all the time. And all your judgments or decisions or experiences are based upon the indoctrination that you have been going through. Right. And this good and bad is morality. And that is necessary, was necessary. And they change from time to time. What is very moral in one country might be immoral in another country. Right. For example, the Muhamm adans they could marry four wives, while here that would seem so totally wrong. So these are man made judgments. Man made do's and don'ts to keep a certain stability in society. But man can transcend those. During the times of the Koran when Mohammed s aid you can marry four wives, there was a sociological purpose to it. So morality is dependent. They lived in tribes and there were... And even today there are seven women to one man in the world's population. There are. You guys are lucky, you know. [LAUGHTER] So. So the moral laws were made for establishing a certain stability in a society for that particular time. So those laws will keep on changing. Moral laws will keep on changing. But what we teach about is purity! That is something far, far different. Everyone tells you, "Be like St. Augustine. Be like Christ. Be like this. Be like that." But I tell you, "Be yourself!" And then you will find purity. Be yourself. So when you try and be yourself, you can very slowly move away from all the indoctrinations. There might be some strife, some turmoil, but you transcend that. You transcend good and bad. You know, there's a story of Milarepa. And in this poem it says that when I was a young man, I did dark deeds. And when I came to some u nderstanding, I do white deeds. But now I do neither black nor white. That means he has transcended all that. Now, through spiritual practices you would learn something called non attachment. (Hey, all the nice questions are only coming up now.) You tr anscend attachment. You become non attached. You become the observer of everything that functions around you. And by being the observer, by being non attached someone asked me about karma earlier in the foyer you do not become karmically bound. S o good is binding, and bad is also binding. So one has to transcend it all. Rise above it. You see, that is the secret of life and happiness and peace. Good. Next. Oh, sorry. Carry on. VOICE: I just [?????] beyond that then. In the book of Job, Job is, I mean, he is moral. I don't know, I think he even passed morality. I really feel that in that case the incidents that happened to him were world events or things that were happening. You know what I'm saying? I'm not thinking so much of morality, but in life events. GURURAJ: Life events.

14. U S 81 - 26 VOICE: Um hm. GURURAJ: Man thinks he has a free will. Oh, by the way, we are holding a course starting tomorrow. Vidya? Starting tomorrow at Techny Towers. It starts tomorrow and ends Sunday, noon. And there are mostly meditators that come to these courses. I don't know if there are any places available, but any person who is a non meditator would like to attend these courses where we go into deep details. You know, with two lectures every day, plus c ertain practices and even a very, very beautiful atmosphere. So even those of you who are not meditators are most welcome to come to it. You are most, most welcome. You can get the details from Vidya, or Mary Beth over there. And there are quite a few teachers around, you can speak to them. Be most welcome on that. So what were we on? World events. Yes, people think, people think that they operate on free will. But that is surface free will. Everything is within divine will. It is a patt ern. It i s a process. It is forever evolving all the time. And you are part and parcel of it. And especially more so when it comes to world events. Yes. Nothing is by accident. There is no accident, and there is no coincidence, either. Coincidence only means two incidents happening at the same time. Do you see. [HE LAUGHS] Next. Yes. Yes. VOICE: What happens when we die? GURURAJ: Hm? What happens when you die? You are dead. [MUCH LAUGHTER] And by the way, that's the only thing you can be certain about is death. There is no death. VOICE: You don't pay taxes. GURURAJ: Beautiful, lovely. I believe they are quite hea vy in America, aren't they? VOICES: [ASSENTING] GURURAJ: Yah. Perhaps you get a lot in return for it too, you know. We had a look at this [armor residence?] just now. We arrived here a bit early. Beautiful. Beautiful. I suppose taxes do have some meaning, to run the country. And to make more armaments.

15. U S 81 - 26 VOICE: Back to the Kingdom of Heaven after death, though. GURURAJ: Back to the? VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: No. No, no, no, no. There is no death. I teach only of life, for death is but t he beginning of another life. Another life. And why do we take birth in the first place? Not for fun, really, but to learn. And, of course, learning is fun. If you can look at it from that perspective. That is why we take birth: to learn. And in thi s scheme of eternity, these three score years and ten is just [SNAPS FINGERS] a wink of an eyelid. So you have to continue coming to school. So you attend school and you go home to rest, to come the next day again. But I can give you an explanation on the realms of the human soul of what actually transpires and happens to the human soul after death. But we will have to go into very deep explanations on that. It will take about an hour at least and then. .. But in short I could tell you. In short I ca n tell you that there is no death. There is only life. And it is like leaving one room and entering another. It's like changing one suit of clothes, and taking on another life you put on another suit of clothes. And where you are born, why you are born in certain particular circumstances. Why is one born in supposed misery while another in great joy and happiness? Why is one born in abject poverty where there's no... not even a little milk for the child? While the other is born in so much luxury and abundance. Now, there are reasons for these things. And how the soul would operate to evaluate itself in choosing the kind of birth it takes. So these... We can't do it in one night, real ly. You know, it's a whole series. And I think I've done about fifteen hundred, two thousand talks. They're all recorded. And if you would give your name and address to one of the teachers here, they will send you a catalog. Because I have spoken on these subjects many, many times, and you can order a cassette. Or you can even come to these courses, if you like. Seeing that I am here in Chicago. And we can go into details on these things. Good. Yes. VOICE: If you believe that, then it changes your perspective of how you relate to people in this lifetime a great deal. GURURAJ: Ah, yes. Yes. True. True. Very true. You can change your perspective in relationships. And that which seemed distant from us and so unrelated to us becomes so, so related. And I'm not only talking of human beings, but I'm

16. U S 81 - 26 talking o f the grass, the trees, the leaves, the flowers. And one would find communication. That's what we need. And what is real communication? Communication is nothing but an expression of love that is forever within us in abundance. The greater the man, the deeper his love. Because the greater the man means he has a greater awareness. The greater the awareness, the more the flood of love pours through. For love is God, and God is love. So in really loving one pours God through us. So that is how we comb ine spirituality with materiality. It becomes one. Good. Next. Yes? VOICE: Do you feel that when man has his emotional or mental, as you call it, mental, physical and spiritual self together that he or she is in control? I'm curious about the use of the word control. And if you do feel that, yes, he or she is in control , do you look upon control as a positive or a negative? Or can it... GURURAJ: He is... Depends what you mean by control. But by being an integrated person you are in control of yourself. And when you are in control of yourself, you would be able to control your environment. Now, that does not mean you will manipulate. You see control is a very wide word. VOICE: No, no I'm not... GURURAJ: No, no, I'm explaining. It does not mean manipulate, because manipulation is also a form of control. You se e. But because being integrated every act you perform will be performed with such great love. And your entire environment changes. So one of the most important things people need in the world is to be loved. And so easy to be loved become loving and automatically you are loved. That happens in all relationships, in households between husband and wife, boyfriend, girlfriend. So everything... We are the pivot on which our circumstances revolve. Now, if the pivot is made strong, then things revolve m ore and more smoothly. You see. VOICE: Guruji, it's ten and I think we're probably going to have to... GURURAJ: Ahhh! Such a waste of time. [LAUGHTER] Yah. Dear, me. Will you join me in a minute of silence? **** END ****


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