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1. UK 77- 15 Aide. Gururaj, we were discussing some practical questions that had to do with teaching and we were just right now talking about certain kinds of problems, like every once and a while we're going to run into people who start shaking in meditation, or their body goes through a lot of twitches and also where people consistently get headaches in meditation and we were talking about various ways for handling these situations and answers for these things. If you like I'll tell you what I was talking about and then you want to take this a step further. People were saying for instance that when people start to meditate, after several weeks or something their body would start to twist, maybe their neck would start to twist around like this. And I said that probably often this is due to the fact that there's a block in some specific Chakra and when we start to meditate, the energy starts to rise and pressure builds up there and the energy can't flow through. And Mohan mentioned for instance that there is one meditator who was having this problem and then as soon as he got his Mandala technique everything started to straighten out. He was having problems with his head going like this - was that it? Voice. That's right from side to side, very violently Gururaj. Since he started his Mandala, that is gone? Good. Voice. During the Mandala it's okay but during the ordinary meditations or during the Satsangs it's going. Gururaj. Good. Good. Are you referring to, eh? Would you like to mention the name of the person? Oh yes well that's a special case. Is Eric here? No, he's not here. I wonder if we should discuss that. Eric had a terrible nervous breakdown. What happened to him, his brother was very ill in Lisbon and then he went down to his brother and of course he is a Prep Teacher and of course I was told about the brother and I gave him certain techniques to impart to his brother. But what Eric did, he tried to do magnetic healing instead of the kind of healing of just allowing him a channel for the energies to flow. So, he tried to give all his energies into it and subsequently he suffered of a nervous breakdown. Good. So his mother phoned me quite a few times from Birmingham, phoned me to Cape Town and said Eric is completely gone off and what can we do? And so I did some meditations for him and he was taken to a hospital and I think Shokie handled him there. Yeah, good. And in a few days he was discharged and he was very well and he phoned me. He says, ‘Guruji, thank you very very much but it was quite miraculous the way I've recovered’. Did he tell you about that as well? Voice. He told me about that.

2. UK 77- 15 Gururaj. Good. 'It's quite miraculous how I have recovered'. Now what is happening to him at the moment is just that little residue that's left over. Good. And if he continues doing his practices, he will find that will all go away. That will all go away. And I have noticed that he is suffering of certain anxieties which are absolutely unnecessary, so you as a Counsellor will have to sit down with him and straighten out. Questioner. He is in the London area and we just happened to be talking yesterday my wife and I and he told me everything.................. (Inaudible) Gururaj. Good. Fine, nevertheless, you might, if he's in the London area perhaps Amrit could have a word with him – you do see him periodically and of course his problems will be over and of course it’s nothing very severe. Aide. I do see him periodically. Gururaj. Now getting down ....................... (Inaudible) Gururaj. Yes, of course. Yes, of course. Thank you for reminding me and of course all being teachers I could discuss confidential details with you and as you will understand that these details discussed are confidential. They are not to be divulged because I would never discuss one person's problem with another and likewise any teacher should not discuss one's problems, one's problem with another person at all. But this is a teaching class for teachers and we can use specific instances which naturally would remain just amongst us. And I think that is why the door is closed too. You get the point. Good. Fine. Now when it comes to twitches, now you will find there are certain kinds of people that would have twitches, now that is say one in a hundred perhaps, the percentage is not very high, perhaps two in a hundred. Now one of the main reasons we have found why this occurs is that some, the person has been meditating on another technique and a sound very foreign to their own personal vibration. As you know our techniques are based entirely upon the person's own vibration. Now for over a long period of time, like I saw someone last night who left this morning, someone from Denmark, right, and her problem was also twitching as Adel would know, she was meditating for four years on another movement's technique and I asked her what she was doing and she told me of her mantra which was absolutely so disconcordent with her own vibrations. Good. It is like if you can think, if you can think of a symphony being played in a hall and right while the symphony is being played, somebody shoots off a lot of fire crackers. It would give off a complete disconcordent

3. UK 77- 15 sound and the whole symphony of the organic system, the physical as well as the psychic, the spiritual system would be disturbed by that. So many people that have meditated on just any given sound which you get out of a book, and any person that buys a book on Tantra, or for example, 'Garland of Letters' by Woodrough, you'll have all those sound there that other movements teach their teachers to give on age basis. Fine. Now a person's age has nothing to do with one's spiritual development or spiritual status. So basically the system is founded on, not founded on the proper principles. Right . So now when a person, for four years like this case we are discussing, was meditating on that sound, it created disturbances in the person's whole nervous system, not only the grosser nervous system but also the subtler nervous system which you can call the chakric system, which is in the subtle body. So what I did I saw her last night and I corrected the imbalance that was caused. And then I says, 'Look, please do one thing, tomorrow morning you meditate before you leave' - because they had to get the tube or something to Kings Cross or something like that and from there go to an Airport called Luton. You have an Airport here called Luton - I never knew about that - I only know of Heathrow and Gatwick. Good. Nevertheless, she, they had to rush to Luton to get a plane over to Denmark. So I says, 'Please meditate tomorrow morning, get up early' - she said she does normally - I said, 'Fine and then come and tell me how your meditation was'. And she came to tell me that she meditated, she went into deep meditation and she suffered no jerks whatsoever. You see? So these little imbalances can be corrected. Now the point I'm trying to make is this, that I can't be here every day of the year to correct these imbalances. Fine. So the position would remain what to do? What must the Counsellor do? If the Prep Teacher finds such a problem with any meditator that is going through heavy jerks then the Prep Teacher must refer that person over to the Full Counsellor. Good. Fine. Now the Full Counsellor will be given certain instructions how to deal with that matter. Okay, right, and for that even after this meeting is over. You see the Full Counsellor becomes a channel for certain energies and I will show them how to impart those energies to the person to correct the imbalance that causes these jerks. Now that is specifically in the case where there is a psychic or a chakric imbalance. Fine. Then there's another cause for jerky movements, right, and that cause could be ordinary mental force. In Sanskrit we call it the Manainayakosha, yeah, Aide. The mental and the emotional body Gururaj. So sometimes the mental and the emotional body. So sometimes the mental and the emotional body is so disturbed that when a person goes into meditation and reaches a certain state of relaxation, when the body reaches that

4. UK 77- 15 certain state of relaxation and the mind also reaches a certain state of relaxation, then those emotions that have been suppressed, right, the emotion that has been suppressed is given play and it expresses itself organically with these turns and twitches and movements like that. Now one has to judge very carefully that is it an emotional are the twitches and the shakings due to the Manainayakosha, which is the emotional body mostly or is it a deeper cause which stems from the chakras. So the Full Counsellors will be able to judge that. And these wrongs can be righted. Now in some instances, if the imparting of energies to the person is powerful enough, it can be stopped immediately. Fine. With some people where the cause go back for many, many years - right, I know a person that has been meditating on other systems for about eight, ten years and doing it regularly and doing it for a few hours a day all the time, not just twenty or thirty minutes but for hours, spending about four or five hours a day on that with a wrong system. Now you can imagine how much damage there has been done to the emotional self and the psychic self. Now with such cases naturally it being chronic, it will take a little longer to make those things right. But please be assured that these turns and twitches is nothing very permanent and they can be overcome. So if you come across a severe case, sometimes just a change of attitude, just a showing of direction how the emotions are going wrong could stop those twitches and turns. And then a bit of healing by the Full Counsellors will stop that too. Okay. Questioner. If somebody is having some twitching or pain is it the disturbance coming out or is it just sort of ....... (Inaudible)...... If the healing stopped it, has it all come out? Gururaj. By healing, what we mean by healing is this, creating a balance, right. So it is not a matter, you are definitely referring to you know other movements that talk of unstressing. There's no such thing as unstressing. What is happening by healing procedures, one is creating a balance. In other words the same energies remain there and energy is not impure. The interpretation is impure but not the energy itself. Right. So where there is misplaced energy, this healing would bring about a balance. In other words if the energy is centred too much in the right toe, we just throw it up and bring it to the neck or something like that. But a balance is created. Aide. Guruji, there's a question I want to ask; it's very closely related to this. We have noticed in the past that when people have used a lot of psychoactive drugs, marijuana, hashish, those things Gururaj. Yes.

5. UK 77- 15 Aide. That those people are the ones that are very likely to have all the twitches and jerks when they start meditating. Gururaj. That is very true. Aide. What I was wondering is this, I have read before in books that when people take those, they open the chakras, the chrakras are opened artificially and that this causes problems in the subtle body, in the chakric system. Is this true? Gururaj. Now what happens is this that when a person takes these drugs - just take the example of LSD - now science has proved that these drugs can remain in the system for very, very long periods of time. They remain in the system. Perhaps Dr. Sybil can tell us more about it. When drugs are taken, they remain, they are not dissolved or chucked off, but they remain within certain parts of the system for a very long time. Is that true, Sybil? Sybil. I don't know the chemistry of it. Gururaj. I see. But this is what I've been told by some of the Professors connected to Cape Town University and Witwatersrand University. Right. Now Aide. I read an article once about Cannabis and that there is like a fatty deposit, a deposit around the neuron and nerve cells and that Cannabis is deposited in that fatty deposit and also like fat sheaths along the nerves and that it does take years and years of purification to get those fatty deposits purified. And what it does do is slow down the sort of interreaction time between the nerves, you know like the impulses don't work as clearly as they should because of these chemicals in that deposit. Gururaj. Good. That is true. Now this is the exact information. Of course I couldn't put it as scientifically as Gita did now but this was the exact information given to me by Vijay who is connected there with the University and they have done researches on this. Fine. Aide. There's another thing you might be interested in knowing. In nineteen seventy a very well known psychic on the West Coast of the United States did a series of lectures on the effects of drugs on the subtle body and all that. She had studied this for years by looking at people and looking at the subtle bodies of people who had been using drugs. And she said that the remnants of these drugs, particularly, now she said Cannabis was the worst of all that it stayed in the system

6. UK 77- 15 for about seven years. If a person had used it say, ten or twenty times, that the residues of it would stay in the system fo r about seven years after they stop using it. And in addition she said though LSD was more severe in its immediate impact, it stayed in the system only about a year, whereas Cannabis stayed for about seven years. So this is an interesting point because most people will say 'Well you know I don't use the heavy ones anymore, just a little grass, now and then.' That was the worst that there was, it lasted for seven years. Aide. They're thinking of legalising Cannabis in some countries. Gururaj. It’s terrible, yes. Isn't there any way where we could approach the Minister of Health in this matter and try and stop legalising it. It’s quite a problem. Yes. One has to be in touch with very, very high circles to be able to do that. Nevertheless, the one point that has now been established, I mean from the scientific angle, it is this that there is a residue of the drug in the physiological system. Now what is in the physiological system, naturally will have its affect in the psychic system of a person or the subtle body. Now the subtle body is so connected with the physical body, it is not two separate entities. They inter-penetrate, fine, they inter-penetrate as I always say, a continuum from a grosser level to a more subtler level. Because of this inner penetration, inter -penetration, the affects on the grosser level must have its affect on the subtler level and the affect could be very very powerful. Because anything taken down to its subtler level can become more powerful, yet the subtle body within ourselves being more powerful than the physical body can cope with it. But in its coping, as in the physical body, in its coping, certain blockages occur. Fine. Now we got to understand the term blockages. Blockages is a term used because we don't have another expression another word, language is so limited. But in the subtle body what happens that the energies do not flow as they should flow, good and that is why we say the energies are blocked. But really speaking the energies are debilitated, they are weakened, in other words the energies act more feebly. If there were no energies flowing then man would not be able to live. So the energies are flowing, but they are flowing in a much weaker state. Like we hear a person having anaemia. Now that means the blood does not contain the energies that it should really contain. The blood is weak, the blood is thin, whatever way medical science would describe it. Fine. So the energies are flowing there but in a more weaker state. Fine, good and this is caused by the taking of drugs. Now when a person starts meditating, good, he heightens his vibrations. And heightening the vibrations has the effect of strengthening the psychic flow, strengthening the energies, strengthening the energies that are flowing. If the energies have become weakened, by heightening the vibration, those energies become stronger. It’s like an anaemic

7. UK 77- 15 person taking a dose of iron tablets. It would make the blood stronger, that happens. Good. Now we also say that sometimes a chakra is lazy. Now chakras - that is just an expression - chakras could never be lazy. If it doesn't perform its function, we won't live. Fine. But its function is weakened because the flow of energy to it is weakened. Right. Now that is the main purpose of the Mandala meditation, is to get that particular chakra into such a higher state of vibration that it will automatically draw more energies to it. Right. Now it has to work in conjunction with our Tratak or Mantra meditation. Mantra meditation strengthens that blood flow, right and the activation of the particular chakra uses the extra energy, the psychic energy that is created. And in rare cases we find that the Counsellor, the Full Counsellor has to just start it off. The car doesn't want to start, so we give it a little push and the engine starts off. And that is the main purpose of a Full Counsellor. That is why just anyone is not appointed a Full Counsellor immediately. He has to reach a certain vibrational level which means a certain level of ability and by reaching a certain vibrational level, automatically that person can radiate those vibrations to help others. Helping others means giving the car that is stuck, the battery that is flat, giving it a push so that when it runs, the battery re-charges itself again. That is the purpose of a Full Counsellor. So when the Preparatory Teachers come across any problem like this it would be good to refer it over to the Full Counsellor. Okay. Aide. Gururaj, you mentioned the Minister of Health Gururaj. What kind of health? Aide. The Minister of Health. I think this subject ..........and I think a letter from this Conference signed by you might just lift the balance, you know. A lot of good can be done by this in quite small ways. Gururaj. Oh yes, we can always try. Yes. Oh I've received some very beautiful letters from Norman and the points he mentions were beautifully set out and with such clarity and convincing power that I really (General laughter) that I really do, I really do enjoy your letters very, very much with such deep insight. I was wondering if you could construct a letter to that effect and of course I could sign it. You have the general idea, now. I could sit down and do it but time factor, that is my problem time, time, time - and the stay here is always - would you do that, Norman? Thank you. Thank you. Questioner. If someone meditates and still continues to use drugs ............. (Inaudible) Gururaj. Well it would be like taking in a poison and then taking an antidote for the poison. It doesn't really help. But if a person perseveres with the meditation then the desire for drug definitely lessens. I mean this has been proven. Right.

8. UK 77- 15 And if it is workable on a very arbitrary system, it is more workable and more potent in our system which is highly individualised. Aide. Funny thing is that people like that couldn't learn meditation if it wasn't working or helping their lives. Gururaj. That is very true. That is very true. The drugs could be more stronger than their meditations. Now if their meditations are more stronger, naturally it will overpower the drug and the desire for drug would diminish. So, therefore in our system we talk of meditation and we talk of self help as well. The analogy I used the other day of the alcoholic and we can use the analogy again, that he can meditate twenty hours a day but during his waking state if he doesn't make an effort of pushing the bottle a bit further and further away, he will still remain a drunkard. All the meditations is not going to help him. It will give him strength but the strength has to be utilised. Right. But the craving in him could be so powerfu l that although he has the strength, he succumbs to the craving that is within him. Now with such cases one has to be persistent and most people, of course in this analogy where alcoholics are concerned, where any form of, alcohol is also a kind of a drug, right, where the drug addiction is concerned, it could stem very, very deeply into other psychological factors. And it would require proper counselling where the person could be brought to a realisation that the drug taking is just because of a certain basic insecurity. And if such a person is kept off the usage of such drugs for a little period of time and replaced that usage by meditation - its a wonderful replacement of things, meditation is - and once the meditation really gets hold of the person and the person really gets into the meditation then you would find that the desire, the craving for any of these drugs, be it alcohol or cannabis or whatever, would diminish, would diminish but in diminishing it, there is some little understanding required, and of course with the understanding also the will, so to speak, to help one self. That is important. So all these factors work hand and hand. Don't let any school of meditation or any system ever tell you or be bluffed by them, when they say ‘Oh, you need nothing else, twenty minutes in the morning and twenty minutes at night and all your problems are over’. That is not true. That is not true at all. Definitely it helps, to a certain measure, but the other factors of self help, change of attitude, knowing the philosophies that underly life, knowing the true value and worth of oneself, all these factors have to be combined for a person to improve his quality of life, to a person to reach that stage of enlightenment which we are all aiming for. And the more little effort we do in the waking state of life, the more it helps the meditation which is effortless. And when we do the meditation, it in turn helps the waking state of life. So it is, thereto it is all interrelated. It's one circle, one circle.

9. UK 77- 15 And let me tell you that to find enlightenment, the path of reaching the spiritual goal is the hardest path in life. There's nothing more difficult than that because it is the highest aim that one could have, it is the greatest thing one coul d ever possess and it just does not come easily. One has to work for it. Oh yes. Oh yes. If it was so easy, if it was so easy then everyone in the world would be enlightened overnight. And we study history, we go back thousands of years to known history that we will find that this has never happened. It has never happened. There will be a percentage that will reach that highest goal and the highest goal is God, to put it in theological terms. But one thing is sure, as one's attitudes change, as one gains greater and greater strength within, as one becomes more and more integrated, the quality of life improves, it becomes smoother. Good. And from the hundreds and hundreds of letters I get from England for example, my mail at the moment is two thousand letters a month and as, let me mention this which is just incidental to what we are talking, that every letter is read by me very, very carefully. Unfortunately I am not in the position to reply to everyone but please do write, because although there is a bond and a link between us, as it is a spiritual link, this verbal communication in letter form also sort of empowers and strengthens that link. Many letters come where they write that, posing a question or some problem and then immediately the next day another letter is written that as soon as I wrote my letter to you I'm sure you haven't yet received the letter, but my problem has been solved. (General laughter) That kind of thing happens, you see. It is not a conscious thing. The spiritual force, the spiritual power is forever existing. Questioner. Guruji, Gurushakti really worked for me I was writing you a letter in my mind, I was writing down what I was going to write and as I got to the end of writing it in my mind, the answer came. (General laughter) Gururaj. There you are. Now that is what spiritual force is. Now if you had to sit down to try and analyse and try and work out a logical conclusion to find the answer, it would have not worked. Right. Now in that moment while you were writing that letter, the mechanics were these, what happened was this that you you tuned yourself in, through the medium - look, I am a symbol please remember that, just a symbol, a channel. Fine. Now as you tune yourself to the symbol or to the channel, immediately the intuition dawns and the answer is there. Now this might not be the common experience of everyone. It might not be the common experience, it depends upon one's, you know intuitive abilities or powers of perception. That doesn’t make one greater than the other. I mean one person could have a wonderful perception with the eyes, someone might have greater perception with the auditory sense. Someone might have a perception with the nose. Like that, so each and everyone has their own little speciality. Good. Because everyone is born separate. So this happens. So please if you want to write, write every day, it doesn't matter. I know some letters get posted to me once a week, but Monday ten o'clock, blah, blah, blah, Tuesday two o'clock and they carry on and then the whole week the lot is posted. Now I don't mind receiving those letters, it forms a link. And immediately I read things, as I'm reading the words,

10. UK 77- 15 the power of love is flowing and it is transmitted. Because that is a faster mail service that, the spiritual link than the ordinary airmail. Good. Gururaj. After Patricia and then you. Questioner. I have a woman in my group and when she is meditating she says she is seething and boiling physically and it’s very uncomfortable. And she also feels that she is on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Well I went to Amrit about this and he said get her to come and see me for a Full Counselling session. So I wrote to her and immediately she replied with sixteen pages of reasons why she couldn't. Aide. This is so common. (General laughter) The people who need the help the very worst are the ones that will have the most reasonable reasons why they can't come for that help. Questioner. Should I insist and say you really ought to really find the money somehow..... (Inaudible) .... you know put aside your sick relation and get something ...... look I'm not beautiful but I have the most marvellous.................. ... (General laughter). Gururaj. Now yes, right. Now such a person says I hate my mantra. Now that is not true. She is not being truthful to herself. Questioner. She says it arouses unpleasant............... (Inaudible) Gururaj. Now I'll go into that, I'll go into that. There is no such thing as hating a mantra. Fine, because the mantra bas ed on one's vibration is the most closest thing to us because it is our vibration and being the closest thing to us, is the most ha rmonious to us. Now her problem is her mental attitude. Fine. She might have been brought up in such a way where you know our philosophies might just seem mumbo jumbo to her. She does not realise what her vibrations are and the vibrational value of it. So if, if she is given, if she is given a good explanation of what a mantra is, let me mention, you know this, it is good to mention it again, that a mantra represents the sum totality of the person. Now if there was some way where one's body and mind and psyche and one's whole being could be reduced to sound value, then the mantra that is given to you would be sound that would be heard. That would be the sound that would be heard. So it is not the mantra that is bothering her but her attitude towards it. Right. Now if a proper explanation is given to her of what a

11. UK 77- 15 mantra is, if it is pointed out to her how sacred a mantra is and for that reason we always ask the initiate never to divulge the mantra. In other movements what happens is this that they ask you not to divulge the mantra because they work on a certain number of mantras. Now we had a very interesting experience in Cape Town. A young man I initiated was telling me, his name is Tony Walsh, I think you should know them from Somerset; Elsie Watkins is some relation of Tony. Now Tony is at University, I think he is doing his final year medicine or something like that. So one day they were sitting around, a whole group of them and somehow or the other someone just let their mantra slip in the talk and everyone found that all of them had the same mantra. Right. Yes, everyone had the same mantra. So that is the reason why other movements tell you not to divulge the mantra because people will find out it’s the same, you know being based on age basis as many of you would know. Right. With us the mantra is based on one's vibrational basis and being one's own entirety it is very sacred to one. And being very, very sacred to one, being very sacred to one, it should not be divulged. Right. That's another reason why we are so careful, very, very careful in appointing Full Counsellors because if a person knows your vibration right and if it’s a negative person, he can tune in with your vibration and impart a lot of negativity to you and upset you and upset your meditations as well. That is why we say; do not divulge your mantra. It is something sacred to you and keep it to yourself. Now coming back to this person, she, you have a certain kind of hypochondriac, is that the word, hypochondriacs right, that they are just looking for an excuse to blame all their troubles on. In many talks I have said that if they can't blame their wives or their husbands or their children then they blame their guru and if they can't blame their guru, they blame God. I've always said that. Right, so if she would develop a proper attitude towards her meditation and she does her meditations regularly, all her problems will disappear. And such a person in spite of a sixteen page letter, if she would just come and speak to one of the Counsellors, Amrit or whichever, whatever is convenient for her, then her problems can be solved in half an hour really. Because if you would analyse that sixteen page letter, you will pick out to the maximum just about three or four points you know where she hasn't got an understanding and in half an hour those three or four points, in spite of the sixteen page letter, there's only three or four points that are troubling her. Right, and if those things could be clarified, she'll have a complete different attitude. Therefore spiritual counselling is so, so important. Good. The system is totally and absolutely faultless, as most of us has experienced. There are a few surface problems with some people created by themselves and a proper understanding, a proper approach has to be given so that the person is made to realise by themselves, realisation dawns within oneself. It’s like the salesman. A good salesman is a person who will sell you an article and yet make you feel that you have bought it. Right. Right. So in that way the Counsellor would

12. UK 77- 15 counsel the person in such a way, that the person will have the realisation by themselves. It’s just very subtly, beautifully, lovingly, compassionately explained that you are, your eyes are sore and you complain your eyes being sore and yet you're staring in the sun. They would be sore if you keep on doing that. Change direction Questioner. I would like to tell people sometimes ............. (Inaudible) (General laughter) Gururaj. That reminds me of a story. Yah, that - yes and then of course you know it has nothing to do with the rat poison. It’s your vibration. It reminds me of a story of another movement, right. Now there is a mantra, a seed mantra which is earring, earring. Earring is a seed mantra. Sorry Aide. Gongli was playing with the wires .... (Inaudible).......... Gururaj. ............... (Inaudible) Good. Right. Earring is a mantra in some other system. Now that of course is given on age basis as we know. Now this fellow, I mean I might mention names because you won't know him, a Dr. Block, he was given this mantra in this other movement, was initiated in this mantra. Meanwhile this Dr. Block some months before had some dealings with an Estate Agent, with an Estate Agent who done him down, that caught him in the deal and this Estate Agent's name was Iring. So this poor fellow every time he sat down, every time he sat down to do his meditation (General laughter) you know, the earring is so associated to Iring and he would see Iring in front of him and he'd like to get up and go and (General laughter) Questioner. Guruji, I taught my Mother to meditate some time ago and it failed completely because I discovered after six months she'd been using my name. (General laughter) I asked why did you do it, because you taught me, she answered. It failed completely. Gururaj. Little problems. Coming back to Norman, little problems like these do come up but they are very very rare, they are very rare. These words, I didn't even know that there was a rat poison with that name (General laughter) they are Sanskrit, its Sanskrit and of course the times when Sanskrit was invented I don't think there was any rat poison. Aide. To follow up Patricia's ... you know Amrit and I sometimes felt with a particular case that................ (Inaudible)

13. UK 77- 15 Gururaj. Oh yes, that is very true, that is very true. A kindness can assume many forms. Right for example I have shown many times great anger to a person, great anger to a person. Of course, it was not what I felt, it was an outward show of anger for a particular teaching to drive a certain point home. So when Gita says with some people you have to be firm, if they require the firmness by all means, by all means. Remember the analogy I gave last time which caused such a laugh, if you can't go through the top, you go through the bottom (General laughter) Yes, so firmness is required in cases. Oh yes. Aide. We've had people playing about with their mantra and their meditation. They have stopped meditating and didn't turn up for their check. And you know we have written a letter to that person and just told them that they didn't even deserve Gururaj's love and everything, really harsh and in every case that person suddenly realised what it is they've done, you know and they've become very positive and they are some of our strongest meditators. Now in fact one particular person is even helping with Intro Talks. And you know Amrit in his counselling every week; he will tell you that sometimes he really has to be quite harsh with people to get them almost shocked into realising Gururaj. Like for example on this Course or the last Course where I think Amrit had to get tough with someone. What I mean by tough is you know to put things down solidly, say 'Look this is this, boy. That wall is white, it’s not black. Open your eyes. The blackness you see is because your eyes are closed.' Aide. There was a person on the last Course, every single night he came up to me and said how bad he felt and how that the Course was bad in every possible way, it was lousy. He had every complaint there was. He was completely negative. He felt terrible about his meditation practices. I've never seen, I don't think I've ever seen one as totally negative as he was and I was waiting to see it build up over the Course. And I saw him the last morning and he came in and he sat down and when you sit down in a room with somebody like this you can just feel ten walls between you and them. And he sat down and he had this very hard look on his face and he was going to sit there for an hour and really complain at me. So the first thing I said to him was 'How are you feeling?' And of course I knew what was going to come out. And I said then 'Why don't you quit meditation and just leave the whole thing? (General laughter) That shocked him, it really shocked him. That's really right. I really scolded him for about fifteen or twenty minutes and told him that there was nothing that he was going to do as long as he had Gururaj. Excuse me, when he talks of scolding he does it such a way that it doesn't seem like scolding (General laughter)

14. UK 77- 15 Aide. But in any case, you have to really use your wits in a situation like this because there are some people that you know even one harsh word is going to have exactly the opposite effect. It’s going to scare them away and they'll never come back. And with some people you've got to be so gentle with, in a counselling procedure. But I would say altogether, on the average, in doing counselling with people for the last six months, I found that about, maybe ten or fifteen percent of the people that come in, they need a little bit of a shock, they need someone to really get a little bit tough with them. The doctors have the same kind of problem in dealing with people - someone endlessly complaining I don’t want to take the medicine, it’s so difficult or something like this. And sometimes they really get tough with someone. And the funny thing was that when this counselling session was over with this man, it lasted about an hour, the last twenty minutes were so warm, love just flowing. And at the end of the counselling session, he offered his help to do anything that he could for the movement. He wants to come to the next Course. He's going to help to set up a Hatha Yoga programme for the meditators. Gururaj is thinking that he may visit India next year and he said he was thinking of going to India next year and he just oh God, couldn't it be arranged so that he could be there at the same time. I mean it was a total one hundred and eighty degree change. And it was because this person would never, if had sat there and been reasonable and had a nice conversation a friendly conversation, this would gone on for the rest, you know he wasn't about to make any changes in his attitude towards what was going on. He needed that wedge to be put in. Once the wedge was in, his layers were broken away a little bit by the shock, then a very warm part of the counselling session could begin and then the love started to flow. Gururaj. Then the communication takes place. Has anyone read ‘The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna’? It’s worth reading, it’s very beautiful, it’s a thickish book like this but I believe it’s not really expensive, ‘The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna’. Fine. Questioner. ....................... (Inaudible) Gururaj. That are not you, beautiful. That happens, that happens invariably with sincere Counsellors where they would be counselling someone and yet it would not be them. There's some other force, spiritual power that takes them over, it just flows through them and seems to give the right answers. Now talking of the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, you know he gives a beautiful analogy there where he equates - talking to Sybil reminds me of this - where he equates a Physician with a Spiritual Teacher. Right. He says in there, that a good Physician you know prescribes a medicine to a patient and he prescribes and says 'Take this medicine three times

15. UK 77- 15 a day' and that is where his job ends. That is the lowest type of Physician. Just gives a prescription take it three times a day and is not worried about the patient anymore. Right. The mediocre Physician, right, gives the prescription and coaxes the patient in taking the medicines. Now and then rings him up 'Are you, you know, taking your medicine on time' and this that and the other or gives another visit again and see how the patient is getting on. That is the mediocre Physician. Right. But the good Physician is the one, right, that if the patient is not taking the medicine, he would throw him down on the floor, put his knee on his chest and pour the medicine down his throat. (General laughter) That is what, that is what Ramakrishna says. Right. He was equating a Spiritual Teacher with a Physician and using the Physician as an analogy. There is a lot of truth in that because we basically want to help people but although one thing to remember we don't impose our teachings on someone. But if someone takes up the teachings and understands the teachings and things like that and sometimes just becomes a bit naughty and then the toughness which Amrit spoke about is necessary. Aide. ................... (Inaudible) Laughter Questioner. What if the meditator can't be shocked so easily? Gururaj. No. Therefore we say, we don't impose, we don't impose if the meditator has not the inclination. Remember the door is only opened to those that knock. All truth can only by found by the one that seeks. So in such a case, such a person don't need to meditate. Perhaps they might reach that stage in some other lifetime. Questioner Guruji, what about someone who is doing your practices and has been doing them for sometime but ................................ (Inaudible) Gururaj. Well Pat, such people really has to be spoken to and taught them the right perspectives. If anyone looks for miracles, those are the ones that will not find miracles. But those that just do their practices, so many things happen in their lives which can be described as miraculous, if one wants to use those words. But those that go out actually looking for miracles, they will not find it because their purpose is not self unfoldment, their purpose is not self unfoldment. Their purpose is very mundane. Now the mundane benefits do come, they come automatically and they would appreciate it when they come also, but such people's attitudes must really be changed, nice talking given to, Pat, that's how it works. Questioner. .. (Inaudible)...................... experience..... about what was it, Patricia, ...... it wasn't just the mantra ........ (Inaudible)... Seeds of guilt ................ feeling on the ground all about her

16. UK 77- 15 Gururaj. So it’s all mental, isn't it? It is mental because if through her mantra she can make the ground boil around her then that is some Siddhi (General laughter). It’s her mental attitude and I do wish that Questioner. (Cont’d). She's very sensitive when she says she feels vibrations like this. Gururaj. True, it could be imagined vibrations too. Questioner. Her husband is looking terribly tired at the moment (General laughter) Gururaj. Nevertheless if you do go up that way and if you could spend some time to pop into her. As a matter of fact on the way home I would like to pop into one meditator if - I believe an agoraphobic lady who just can't leave home. And I received a letter from her and it was through Rita's efforts that she finally got the courage Questioner. ................. (Inaudible)............... she was so relieved when she phoned me up and said I have written that letter ................ Gururaj. Lovely. Now if it's on our way home, I would just like to drop in and see her for just five minutes. And believe you me that five minutes will have great great value because I was told that this person just locks herself up in her room and is even afraid to go out to post a letter. Questioner. .................... (Inaudible) for the first time in months she had a feeling (inaudible) ....... .................... she wanted to stay in bed and not do anything she has a feeling of getting up and doing things in the house and even ....................... going out in the garden you realise that you are getting better.....................................not so badly. Gururaj. She's not on the Full Technique yet? Voice. No. She was too frightened Gururaj. She was too frightened to come to the Centre.

17. UK 77- 15 Answer. Amrit hasn't been able to get to the house to give her the Full Techniques. Gururaj. If it’s on the way, I would just like to pop in for five minutes and have a few words with her. I'm sure it would be re ally, really worth while. You know what Ramakrishna, mentioning Ramakrishna again, you know what he says that ‘If I could lead just one person to salvation, then the mission of my life has been fulfilled’ and how true that is. Questioner. It’s very weird ................... developing a very strong link with Christ ...... Gururaj. Very good. Very good. What is the difference between Christ or Krishna or Buddha or the infinite power that exists or that is expressed through the guru, what is the difference? It’s the same spiritual force. Questioner. We have .......... (Inaudible)...... with claustrophobia in our branch and she's made a magnificent unusual recovery. It really was. She had trouble at the dentist some years ago with a back wisdom tooth – it’s real hell, excuse the word, to go through. And she went about a few weeks ago to have another similar one done and she said she was just chanting and the dentist said ‘Are you still there Mrs ..... ?’ Go ahead. (General laughter) Gururaj. Beautiful. When we hear such stories and if it was some other movement, say 'Hallelujah'. (General laughter). Questioner. .................. (Inaudible) Gururaj. Beautiful. It works. Fine. Aide. I was thinking we've got, there are several other questions, kind of important questions that have to do with teaching, we've only got about, you know, about thirty five minutes. Questioner. Can we move on to Tratak for a while, if anyone has questions on Tratak? Aide. Oh, yes.

18. UK 77- 15 Questioner. Well the first was, how important is it to see an image? Is it really necessary for people to do something to try to get a clear image such as putting their hands on the eyes? Why do images seem to calm down after a while? And I've got one more question on that. Shall I leave that? Gururaj. Yes, put the whole lot together, we'll cover it. Questioner. The thing is, can we do our Tratak with the candle in front of the Mandala - I did it partially by accident and it is very powerful. Questioner. (Cont’d). There was just one other question, he was, he hadn't got a candle and he meditated on a light bulb. Gururaj. Right, light bulb. Anymore questions, so we could cover it in one foul swoop. Aide. One thing Guruji, travelling around the country, I found there is quite a large portion of people that when they start Tratak, either for the first few days or the first several weeks, they get nice clear images and then after several weeks it goes away and never ever seems to come back, so that there is often the question, people wonder why this happens. The other part of the question that you asked has to do with, is the image necessary. Now this is something since the very beginning everyone has been explained over and over again that it’s not necessary. And that has very clearly been explained. Everyone should know that. Questioner. But sometimes directions are given that if you want to get a clear image put ...... over your eyes, is that necessar y? Aide. Well if a person is meditating in a very light room, you know which some have to be – it’s summertime, its very light in the morning and the evening and there's nothing else they can do and by sitting at a table where they can rest their elbows, or you see if they have to hold their hands up, it’s going to be kind of a strain to keep their metabolism up. But if they sit at a table where they can rest their elbows or on a chair like this, where they could rest their elbows, then just putting their eyes over like this will make a lot of difference in terms of how clear the image is.

19. UK 77- 15 Questioner. Could I also ask when the image is finally gone, if you open your eyes, there is a black blob in front of you, you can't see it. And when you turn your eyes to return to the light, there is a white, the thing reverses and that seems to go on for a very long time. Is that part of it? Gururaj. Good. Good. Right. Questioner. Do the colours that people see, are they completely unimportant or do they have some meaning in terms .......... (Inaudible) Gururaj. Fine. Okay, are we done? Right. Questioner. ... (Inaudible)............ when something beautiful like a flower Gururaj. Right. Okay. Good. Questioner. If someone won't do their Tratak, again, are you to make them somehow? Questioner. After one has been doing Tratak for a while, the pressure on the eyes or the chakras sometimes gets very strong, as if there's a finger being pushed or twisted. It sometimes gets very powerful and very strong. Gururaj. Right. Good. Now I might repeat things which you would know is worth repeating. The purpose of Tratak is to focus one's mental energies to a focal point. Right. Now remember it is not concentration. Some people that might get a little headache after doing the practice would be, because they are concentrating hard, they are straining and the very strain produces the headache. The whole idea is to just simply and lazily bring one's attention to the flame. Fine. Good. So that means you are focusing your mental energies to one focal point. Now by doing that practice regularly, it helps one in daily life. It helps one to develop greater powers of concentration. Good. The difference between success and failure in our daily activity is due to the lack of concentration where there’s failure, and concentration which brings success. And this principle could be applied to any business, any profession, any job whatever. So the purpose of Tratak is to develop that concentration. Good. The other purpose of Tratak is something similar to concentration but could be expressed in another way, one-pointedness. Right. Now in all spiritual practices a person

20. UK 77- 15 has to have the idea of one-pointedness. There is a lovely little analogy also given by Ramakrishna. Try and get this book, 'Gospel of Ramakrishna', it’s worth reading you know. Yeah. He uses the analogy of a bird sitting on the mast of a ship and the bird was in a hurry to reach the shore. So it flew to the south and got tired of flying and couldn't find the shore. So it came back and sat on the mast again. It flew to the north and couldn't find the shore. So it flew back and sa t on, so every direction, east and west. Fine. So it decided in the end that I'm flying here and there and that I'm just not reaching anywhere. So he decided just to sit, keep sitting on the mast and the boat naturally had to reach shore and the bird reached shore. Fine. So, that means onepointedness. It found one thing, the mast and it stuck to the mast and it reached shore. Fine. So, one-pointedness in one’s life is according to Raja Yoga, Patanjali and any of these great Masters they have taught us and told us that one-pointedness is important not only in one's daily family life, householder's life or mundane activities, but more so in spiritual evolution one pointedness. So, with the exercise of Tratak, one is learning gradually t o focus all one's mental energies to one focal point. Now quite a number of things happen there, right, by doing that and getting the image of the flame. Now why have we chosen the flame? It is this, because it is light and any form of light would have an after-image. In other words the impulses of the light are retained in the retina for a fraction of a moment, for a second or so. So then when the image still remains longer than that second or a fraction of a second then it is visualisation. So by using a light, by using a light, one is helped in a way that automatically the after-image is there in the retina and that leads one to visualisation. It is an easy way. Fine. One could use this flower but that flower will not leave the after-image impulse on the retina. It would be more difficult. So therefore the flame is easier and that is why we use the flame. So for the first fraction of a second it would be the after-image and the after-image leads to visualisation. So when the image persists for a longer period of time, then know that it is not the after-image or the impulse is left on the retina any more but it is actual visualisation. Now there are two things that could happen. There's a difference between visualisation and imagination. Fine . Now, imagination is when you see the flame inside the head. You imagine it there and it has not the vividness. It is there in the form of an idea. But proper visualisation is when it is outside you and has the vividness. Fine. Okay. Good. Now, wh at happens in visualisation, when visualisation occurs is that you are perceiving the flame now, there's no more after image that little bit the light impulses that are left on the retina that's gone now and your visualising. So that means you are perceiving that flame with the third eye which means the Ajna Chakra. You are perceiving that flame with the third eye. Now the Ajna Chakra might perceive it in so many different forms. It does not need to look like a flame. It can be a triangle, it can be a black blob or any of the other experiences that one has. But by some form of visualisation, it

21. UK 77- 15 encourages the meditator. Fine. And that perception is done by the opening of the third eye. Good. Then when the third eye is opened and sufficiently opened which for many people can take many years, then one starts on a more difficult object, your flower for example. I can look at this flower with open eyes and I can look at this flower with closed eyes and the details I've missed with open eyes, I pick up with closed eyes. So, I am using the third eye, the inner eye for that perception. Fine. Now science has discovered that the subtle psychic third eye or the Ajna Chakra has its physiological counterpart. Good. We have made many experiments and as a matter of fact we have a young lady there, Grace Philip, her father is a publisher - I think I have mentioned Grace to you, right - she's at the present moment just about completing her Ph.D. on research on the pineal gland. And her Professor, Ly nn Gillis - I think you know Lynn Gillis - is one supervising her thesis plus you know the whole staff of the University there is so interested in this now. They have found that the third eye has its psychological counterpart in the pineal gland . So with this exercise, visualisation or no visualisation, it is stimulating the pineal glad. Now when the pineal glad is stimulated, it secretes a certain substance, substances and one of the substances is called Melatonen. Right. Now Malatonen is a substance which regenerates and rejuvenates every other secretion in the body, every other secretion in the body. So with this practice which is seemingly so simple but thousands of years old - its a generalised practice - and it is practically given to everyone because we people with our strains and tensions have our mental energies all scattered and we find more scattered people than unscattered people. I mean we know that by experience. So, this is an exercise whereby one's mental energies are brought to a focal point, a concentrated point and the attention, power of attention is increased, one-pointedness is increased. Right. So now Malatonen, the substance that is secreted by the pineal gland, so little is known in medical science about the pineal glad. The only way that they can examine it is when a person is dead and they open the head. Right. And when they come to this little gland, it automatically somehow because of exposure of whatever becomes calcified and they could know nothing of the workings of it. Fine. That is how far physiology has reached. Good. But now greater researches has been done and it has been conclusively been proved that this Malatonen, this substance secreted, that is secreted, benefits every part of a person's body. So now here with Tratak what happens is this, that a person is benefited biologically and physiologically. A person is benefited psychologically because it is also a visual meditation and it brings a nice calmness. Physiologically benefits, bi ologically benefits, psychologically benefits, psychically benefits and then of course all meditations bring about the integration within one. So in every aspect of life the meditation, the Tratak helps one. Now one of the questions were that

22. UK 77- 15 if there is no visualisation then what? Please do explain that visualisation is not even necessary, if it doesn't come, as long as the energies of the mind are brought to a focal point. With some people visualisation might take months and months to come. Good. But please stress it to them that even, even if they don't have visualisation, you know there are certain forces set into motion within themselves by the integration of these mental forces that affects the pineal gland and the general system. Okay. There was something else that I've left out on the question of Tratak. I've tried to cover it as much as possible. Aide. Many people have reported Questioner. Some people are allergic to candles. Aide. There's this one other point Gururaj. The light bulb Aide. So many people have found that they had nice visualisations for the first several weeks that they were doing Tratak and then as time went on, visualisation got worse and worse. For a good portion of these people it has never returned, that is they have almost no visualisation now although they did at the beginning. Perhaps you can explain why this is the case. Gururaj. Now when visualisation disappears, now we got to examine this. Are they really talking of visualisation or are they talking of imagination because many people could confuse it. At first they would imagine. Right. And then after that, they would, you know once the powers of imagination, imagination is a wonderful thing, you can stop imagining something. Like for example in diseases you have an imaginary disease and things are properly explained to you, then the imaginary part goes away and the disease goes away. So we have to establish that is this person visualising or is this person imagining. Now what happens with visualisation once it is properly established, once visualisation is established it can never go away. Right. But it can take a rest. The mechanics, what happens here is this that once the third eye starts opening, right, the third eye opens but at the same time, at the same (oh, thank you love, you are so kind, so, so very kind, oh yeh - (General laughter) - anymore. Fine. Once a person has learned to visualise then that part of visualisation can never disappear, can never be done away with. The candle, the flame or any form of light is the easiest because it has this after image for a second. Right. Then as a person progresses more, his visualisation increases to such an

23. UK 77- 15 extent that he would be able to visualise anything. And this is the first step towards for example clairvoyance. This is the first step how to develop clairvoyant powers. Now as I told you before, I look at this flower with open eyes and the details I miss in the hurried glance with the open eyes, I would pick them up with closed eyes. So I am seeing with the third eye. Now with greater practice, with greater practice a person can take his attention now to Brighton, what's happening at home. Yeah, just to close the eyes and place the attention on the livingroom in Brighton and sitting here and now one could see what's happening in your livingroom in Brighton. Fine. So the powers of visualisation can extend itself to developing the powers of clairvoyance. Of course I would never recommend develop Siddhis but these are one of the stages how that comes about. Now visualisation, visualisation never would disappear. So we have to establish is this person imagining that he's visualising or is he really visualising. Fine. Now there comes a period of time when the visualisation does not, the power does not go away but it takes a rest. What happens there is this that certain areas, certain areas of one's physiological being or psychic being is developed. Right. Now the rest too is required in between to give the nervous system a chance to catch up. Fine. There it rests. Now this can happen in Mantra meditation as well, where the mantra meditation will go fine for a while and then for a little period of time, some weeks you know, it’s just like a plateau or things rest. But remember the rest is just as important, fine, because it is during the rest period where the nervous system, the subtle nervous system has a chance of catching up. And when it catches up there then the meditation goes on again, right and then a rest period and the nervous system starts catching up. But remember that at every rest and every start there is a progress made. One is going from one standard to another standard to another standard. So these experiences should happen. The rest is just as important as the activity. Okay. Sorry his hand was up first. We'll tackle it together. Questioner. Is that the same principle between the difference in imagining and visualising apply to say that process we did with the healing. Did we just imagine that we were .... (Inaudible) ............ visualise in order for the healing to be effective. Gururaj. Yeah. Imagining there would be bringing one's thought to that. But if it is visualisation then it assumes a greater force, it is. Because visualisation is an actual projection from within oneself to outside oneself. Oh yes, Okay. Questioner. If it is really visualisation, is it in the here and now? In other words if you're seeing it and you move the candle, would you see the candle move?

24. UK 77- 15 Gururaj. Are you talking of PK, Photokenisis? Questioner. I'm talking about his doing his Tratak and he has a genuine perception with the third eye of the candle. Or is it in the present that he sees it? Gururaj. He sees it in the present for now. Right. And then when he develops to a stage, he would be able to see a candle burning ten million years ago. He would be able to perceive that. Yes. Like for example the star, the star we perceive now might be dead and extinct, hundreds of thousands of light years ago and yet we're seeing the light now. To us it is, it is, the star is shining meanwhile the star is dead. Questioner. But if the candle actually went out, would you see it go out? Gururaj. No, no, he does not need to see it go out if he's steady enough in his visualisation. Now this steadiness takes time. This steadiness takes time. It is a practice of such inestimable value that it’s worth striving for. It’s not something just overnight. Mantra meditation is easy but it can be taught and slowly the mind floats away into thought and you easily bring back the mantra and the thought and the mantra, the easy transition, alternation of thought and mantra and thought and mantra. Fine. In between there is a gap where there is no thought and no mantra. And then you are right centred within yourself and when you’re centred within yourself, that is the state of transition, transcendence. Fine. Good. That's easy. That's easy. These are practices that could enhance the mantra practice by, by really getting all the energies of one's mind together. So here in Tratak we use our mental energies to enhance all the other energies within us. Good. Now there are so many hands up here now, Mr Chairman would you Aide. Go ahead. Questioner. ........................... (Inaudible) Gururaj. I'm sorry Norman, she was saying something and I missed Questioner. Tratak .. (Inaudible)............... the Mandala ................ very powerful.

25. UK 77- 15 Gururaj. Yes it would be powerful and the fear is this it might be too powerful. So it is not recommended. It’s not recommended. Questioner. There was also a question of pressure on the forehead. Gururaj. The pressure on the forehead is created by straining. Questioner. (Inaudible)............throughout the day at various times............ (Inaudible) Voice. Pleasant or unpleasant? Questioner. Sometimes it’s very unpleasant. Gururaj. Now there are also many reasons for that. The pleasantness could be a residue of that which is experienced in the Tratak and the unpleasantness could be a residue of the strain that was involved in doing the Tratak. You see? Aide. But could the pressure, could pressure be due sometimes, particularly if it’s pleasant pressure, to the activating or opening of the Ajna Chakra that could be pleasant? Gururaj. Yes, yah that could happen. And of course it could have its physiological counterpart in the form of pressure. Good. If it is unpleasant then when you do Tratak again avoid straining, be careful, just not to strain. Just take attention very gently. Right, if you like you can cut down the time a bit and experiment on it a bit and see what happens to the pressure and then increase your time gradually again. Sometimes people become very greedy, they want everything all at the same time but then they get indigestion. Yeah. That could be reason for it. Sorry whoever? Aide. Let's do this systematically. Go ahead. Questioner. If you going to try healing by visualising a blue light, would it help at all to do Tratak on a blue surface and actually look physically at something blue before you try visualising a blue light?

26. UK 77- 15 Gururaj. Doing healing is fine and I don't want all of us to become a bunch of healers. Okay. Now if you have the power within yourself, I mean to be able to project those healing energies then only do that. Right, the other day I wanted to do that and I asked everyone to join me in it even if they are doing it right or wrong was no so important, but what I wanted was just the participation. Good. And when one gets well established in one's practice, when one's visualisation improves through the Tratak practice then you visualise that friend of yours that's not well and then you direct your mental energies in one-pointedness - you see this helps in all these things - to that person and certain energies are activated and which are helpful. Okay. So that is the best way really. The most important thing is to get well established and well grounded in our own practices. That's the most important thing. And then once we have achieved that we could do so many, many wonderful things, things full of wonder. Yes. Okay. Aide. Okay. Charles. Gururaj. I wanted to give a little talk on teaching and things like that. Aide. We've only got ten minutes, Guruji. Gururaj. We only got ten minutes. Oh, they have to be in the dining room at a quarter past twelve. I'm so sorry I came half an hour late and what I had to do was important. It had to be done. Sorry. Good. Now. Questioner. . (Inaudible).......... Preparatory Practice...... some variety in the practice .......... .......... (Inaudible) Gururaj. The Preparatory Practice can be done for two thousand five hundred years at a time. Right. The Preparatory Practice that we are doing (Tape ends suddenly) END


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