• 7 DAYS A WEEK FROM 10 AM TO 6 PM


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1. UK 77- 32 Gururaj. ...... have a Concert tonight? Aide. There is a concert tonight. Oh wait a minute. Yes, yes. Thursday night. Gururaj. No, no. That's the .......... Aide. Country and Western music tonight, after ten o'clock. Who is playing by the way? Voice. Eric and Marianne Rick - the pianist, Marianne Gururaj. Marianne is from South Africa - Australia. Aide. Who else? Gururaj. The Clarinettist Voice. Yes, Janet. Janet Rock. You know them? Aide. Okay. Gururaj. Good. That would be nice. Yes. Aide. And then tomorrow evening we have a Sitar concert. Who's? Voice. The Sitarist's name is Viren Bessanni and people who were at the celebration of the first birthday of BMS may remember him. He played for us then at the ......... (Inaudible)...... and also the. (Inaudible)....... is the same person w ho played.... Aide. They have a wonderful relationship together.

2. UK 77- 32 Questioner. Or about the creation of the universe in your case. I would be interested if it were possible for you also to participate in the Gururaj. Oh yes, I am going to participate in listening. Good. Fine. Let's start off with questions. Yes. Yes. Questioner. We appear to have freewill but is it just an explanation in our insufficient, limited language, or is nothing accidental what happens of all created living things, micro and macrocosms and all planes programmed in the Almighty's computer from the beginning until the end meets the beginning. Gururaj. Beautiful. Beautiful. Questioner. (Cont’d). Or do we not cognise, don't understand that can exist..... (Inaudible)...... and not together and as Jesus expressed it in other words there is not fallen a bird to the ground without being decided before. Gururaj. Beautiful. Yes. Not a bird falls to the ground without it being decided before and not a hawk swoops to the ground for his worm. Yes. That is very true. We do function; we do function according to the plans of a Divine will. Good. And we also function according to the plans of a freewill. So, in existence two wills are operating simultaneously, Divine will and freewill. Now what we can discuss this morning is what is the interrelationship between the Divine will with the freewill. What is Divine will and what is freewill and what are the mechanics of the connection between Divine will and freewill? Okay. Fine. Good. When we talk of Divine will then it means that there is a pattern. Good. There is a pattern set in people's lives or set in the microcosm and the macrocosm and in all existence of things there is a pattern. Good. Now this pattern that is existing is Divine will. Good. How is Divine will formed? Good. Divine will or the word once set into motion in vibration form has to propel itself as all motion would propel itself. Now in this propulsion, in this motion that has been put forth, it moves in one direction. To our little logical minds, it might move in a linear fashion from one point to the other but withi n itself, within Divine will itself, it does not move in the fashion that we would imagine. It moves within itself. It moves within itself and it is propelled by itself. And all motion that is created is within itself and it is the creator of the motion itself. Good.

3. UK 77- 32 Now, freewill, freewill is that which man's mind is capable of perceiving or man's mind is capable of comprehending. Good. Now to what extent does Divine will influence freewill? That is the question. Divine will can only be known when man reaches the inner stillness and then we hear that little voice which many call the voice of conscience. That inner deep down voice that once having reached there, any decision that one makes would be spontaneous and would be unerring, could never be wrong. But what stands in the way of experiencing Divine will or experiencing the path ahead of us which Divine will wants us to follow, is the mind with freewill. Good. Now, why if Divine will is omnipresent and omniscient and omnipotent, why should there be a freewill given to man? Why should there be this freewill that interferes with Divine will? Yet, yet Divine will would find itself expressionless if it itself does not become free. And it is the freedom of Divine will which is within itself and the mechanics of the freedom within the motion of Divine will itself, reflects to us as freewill. Good. Now, say if we want to reach London from here. Good. There might be five roads that will take us to the centre of London. Good. Now Divine will says that you are to reach London. That is the pattern set for us, but freewill gives us the choice of which road to take. The high road or the low road or the middle road or whatever road. That privilege is given to man because in his evolutionary progress, he has to go through the stage, a very, very necessary stage so that it could experience itself. So the purpose of freewill is to allow man to experience itself. And it is only when man can experience himself through his freewill that he will know what Divine will is. Man proceeds from Divine will and because of this propulsion of expression, like the flower growing from the seed, blossoming, it is through this power of expression that man is allowed freewill to reach the essence of himself again. To reach the essence of himself again means, that he attunes himself with Divine will. So from Divine will we proceed and to divine will we return. We come from home and we reach back home. We come from Divinity and we reach back to Divinity. Now freewill is the intermediary. Man having developed the intellect which was a necessary process in evolution, man is given freewill. Good. Now, you would find that the plant does not have a freewill. It has a natural will and the natural will in the growing of the plant is synonymous with Divine will. You have the functioning of animals, good, who to a lesser degree function within the realms of Divine will. And man, the highest animal on earth, to a far more lesser degree functions according to Divine will because he has assumed or regarded his freewill to be of such great importance. Because he can think, because he has been given the tool, because he has developed this tool through the process of evolution, he starts deluding himself by thinking that every action that happens to me and everything that is done, I do. And he says my will be done instead of Thy will be done. Good.

4. UK 77- 32 Now, that is the error and that is the mistake man makes that keeps him away from Divine will. Now what do we do as human beings? What we have to do is attune our freewill with Divine will and allow our freewill to merge into Divine will so that without annihilating the power of freedom of the freewill, it automatically and spontaneously acts as if the Divine will is acting. In other words instead of swimming against the current, we are swimming with the current. Now, all difficulties in life are created because of the wrong exercise of freewill. And yet if the very man finds the key, the secret of how to dive within himself, all answers are there, which path to take. In everyone's life, in everyone's life as he proceeds on the path, he comes to a fork and there he tarries to see which path to take. Shall I take the left or shall I take the right. Good. Now if he would tarry long enough and if he knows how to still his mind and allow the analytical power or the intellectualising to become silent, then inwardly a voice springs up and intuitively he feels shall I take the road to the left or shall I take the road to the right. Good. Now this power is stirred up within ourselves by ourselves by using freewill. We have the freewill to rush away into the left or to the right or to sit down there at the fork and just forget ourselves and some people say pray for guidance. We say meditate, still the body and the mind and let the inner voice speak out and intuitively I will know what road to take. Good. Now when we sit down with the intuition, when we sit down relying on the intuition that wells up within ourselves and we follow that path. Good. And following that path we might be taking a bumpy road. There might be potholes in the road which would make the passage difficult. Then we say to ourselves, Divine will is no good. We say Divine will is no good, I should have used my freewill to have taken the left fork, the left road and I relied on intuition in taking the right road, the right hand path. And by taking the right-hand path and relying on Divine will, I have come across all these difficulties. Now, who says that following the Divine will is always going to be smooth for you? No one says that. What Divine will says is this that I will see that you progress on your path even if you have to cross so many hurdles. So Divine will is always there to make a man progress in life, to evolve man, to bring man to greater awareness of that which is within himself. Because without those hurdles, he would have not recognised the power and the expression of Divine will and then he will forever emphasise the importance of his little will, his little freewill. Good. Now, the other way also works true that when man exercises his freewill and things go smooth for the time being, for the time being things go smooth, then he says ‘How great am I, I have decided’. But even in that freewill what was there that motivated and activated that freewill? There was still that power, that energy, that light that shone through perhaps to a very small extent. Perhaps that light was seen through coloured glass. And if things move smoothly, he says 'Oh, I have done this' and by saying 'I have done this' he is denying the real doer that does everything. So therefore not even a blade of grass could grow without Divine will or without that Divine power.

5. UK 77- 32 Now what are the other factors that influences freewill? The other factors that influence freewill are the factors that has given us certain tendencies and those tendencies have been formed by our own past actions across many lifetimes perhaps. Our own actions make us act and perform as we are doing now. So, every seed that has been planted, plant onions, you grow onions. Plant potatoes, you grow potatoes. Plant cabbages, you grow cabbages. And some people grow cabbage heads. Yes. Yes. Yes. The seed got mixed up somehow. Good. So, we are the product today as we sit here, we are the product today of all the actions that we have performed through so many, many lifetimes. What we feel and experience today is the effect of the causes that we ourselves have created. Good. And the creation of those causes have been superimposed upon Divine will, whereby that Divine will has been covered with veils. Our actions has covered the actions of Divine will with veils, so therefore we do not perceive what Divine will is. Now the purpose of spiritual practices is to peel off those veils one by one, so that we could listen to the voice that is within and that voice within is forever unfailing. But to be able to hear that, we got to forget or we got to subdue the voice of the mind. We got to subdue the voice of the mind that exerts its freewill. So, within the pattern of Divine will there is this force, this energy that is generated within itself. Good. That Divine will is like the ocean, good, that has its particular pattern of waves and currents. Good. Freewill is like the boat on that ocean, a sailing boat. Right. Freewill can help us to pull the sails, adjust the sails in such a way that we could flow wit h the current and with the air with the wind so that sailing becomes faster and smoother. So that means that we are attuning our freewill with the Divine will. Good. And it is only when the freewill is attuned to Divine will can real peace and happiness be experienced because man's will, man's freewill, his thinking power can be very faulty, can be very faulty because it comes through the conditioning of the mind. And if the mind is unconditioned, then automatically divine will plays. It is because the mind is conditioned that freewill plays. One is unconditional while the other is conditioned. Right. Now, Divine will does not tie one down to a certain set of actions. Divine will in its expression gives you freewill so that you can manipulate Divine will. Look how great man is really, that he can take the energy of Divine will and use it for his own betterment, for his own happiness because Divine will, will always remain the strongest force of attraction. Divine will never repels. It always attracts. But we, with the freewill put an obstacle in the path of that magnetic current, of that magnetic flow that stops us from really recognising Divine will. So, in the overall picture, in the overall picture nothing happens in this world except Divine will. Even th e functioning of freewill is also a functioning within Divine will excepting for one factor, that Divinity in its mercy, Divinity in its mercy gives you a choice, which way do you want to go. And by giving you the choice, you progress or retrogress in you r

6. UK 77- 32 evolution. Progressing in evolution means greater and greater happiness, nearer and nearer home. Retrogressing in evolution means further and further away from home. Progressing in evolution means turning up the wick so that the light shines brighter in the dark forest of life. And retrogression means dimming the light so that the dark forest even seems more darker to us and more full of misery than what it really is. So, with our freewill, we have the instrument of freewill to exercise Divine will, to our needs. Look at this great privilege of the human life. No other creature on earth has this privilege to use freewill. But we use freewill wrongly and that is why we suffer. Good. So the secret is an open secret. It's just to act and behave in our waking state of life in such a way that our freewill is attuned to Divine will. And at moments when we can't decide, we dive within ourselves and the decision is already made there. The answer is already waiting there to tell you take the left or take the right. Fine. So man having this prerogative, has to use it properly and by using it properly, man stands to gain and his gain is happiness and bliss. Good. And happiness is unconditional. Right. Happiness does not depend upon your bank balance. Happiness does not depend upon what kind of car you drive or what kind of home you live in. Happiness depends upon yourself entirely. The only condition of happiness is how closer you are or how closer you can get to your inner self which is Divine. So Divine will is an overall pattern and within this overall pattern of the ocean, freewill plays like the waves, superficially on top of Divine will and then the waves thinks 'Ah, I fly so high or I sink so low'. No, it is the current in the Divine will that guides it all the time. And it is for us to be regular in our meditational practices so that we could forever be diving within and seeking the guidance that is there within. And therefore I have always been saying over and over and over again, that the duty of the external guru is to awaken the internal guru, the internal guide. And the internal guide is governed and is the Divine will and life is happy. Okay. Questioner. This is a musical question. Gururaj. Musical one. Oh, lovely. Hold on. If it’s a musical question, I can just sing it or (General laughter) Questioner. Many people - it’s really in five parts - many people experience great spiritual upliftment when listening to certain kinds of music. Now, first of all, do musical rhythms work like mantras? Secondly, is there any essential difference between Western and Eastern music as a conveyor of this spiritual quality? For example I find a tremendous upliftment from Beethoven's Choral Symphony and not from his guitar music. Thirdly, Composers and performers who are channels for spiritual energy through their music may themselves be a mess - Schubert ended up in a mental hospital

7. UK 77- 32 for example. Four, where does celestial music come from and who composes it? Five, is there any special significance to the fact that Beethoven wrote his most spiritual works when he was stone deaf? Gururaj. Six. (Gururaj laughs) Good. The appreciation of music, be it Eastern or Western, good, has nothing to do with the spiritual self of man. By listening to a piece of music, Beethoven, in the instance of Eric where he would like Beethoven and not one of the Eastern Ragas, the reason for that is very simple because his mind has been conditioned to a certain kind of music. Good. Now Western music you'd find systematic. It has its stops, it breaks. It has a certain pattern which it follows. Good. And that music, speaking as an Easterner now of course, that music is conditioned by the mind and to an Easterner's ears it would sound mechanical. Right. Now in Eastern music, in Eastern music there is a set pattern but in keeping up the pattern, there is free flow of the personality of the person. In other words, any Raga would follow a certain pattern but would have a great amount of improvisation, like jazz improvisation. And when you listen carefully to Eastern music, you don't listen to the pattern of that particular Raga but you listen more to the improvisation that is provided. Because through the improvisation, the performer is conveying to you his personality. Good. Now if the personality is pure enough, is refined enough then he could put in it some soul quality. He can put in it some heart quality of feeling. He can put in it the qualities of emotion. And only the very best can put in it soul quality whereby not only your emotions or your mind is stirred but also your spirit is stirred and you can become lost in the music from spirit to spirit where a great union forms, where the spirit of the performer and the music created by the performer and the listener. The act, the action and the actor becomes one. And that could become a meditation. It is a meditation, a form of meditation. Now Western music to the Eastern ear would seem very mechanical, very systemised, where certain keys are pressed just in a certain way to produce just a certain quality. But there too interpretation of a composition depends a lot upon the performer. The more refined the performer, the more could he convey his inner self and even through Western music, the soul of man can be brought forth. It can be brought forth very, very beautifully where it could really be stirrin g to the listener. But we have to analyse and we have to be very careful in knowing what is being stirred? Are our emotions stirred? Are our feelings stirred or is the soul stirred? Has there been - listening to Beethoven with the performer in between Beethoven and myself, with the performer acting as a medium - how much of Beethoven have I received? Is the performer pure enough to convey the spirit of Beethoven to stir my spirit? So therefore musicians too could act as a Divine channel in stirring the spirit. It is easy to stir emotions and feelings. Any rock group can do it to those that like rock music. Don't we see teenagers going into mass hysteria? They feel so stirred, but what part of them is stirred? That is the difference between that kind of music and more sublimer music.

8. UK 77- 32 How many times don't we go into church and listen to a beautiful hymn or listen to the choir. And there the stirring we feel is beyond the mind, beyond the emotions, beyond feeling, but a welling up within oneself. So there too, music could become a meditation. Eastern and Western music, there's no difference really. It’s just a matter of system. What we are after is that what that music can do for us. Right. The old saying that 'Music soothes the savage breast'. Right. But does it soothe the savage breast? But what is the savage breast composed of? Animal instincts, emotions that can be soothed, but is that what we are after? No. In good music to those that want a good music, we want to feel the spiritual quality of the music, where a true Composer, a real Composer can give forth his communion with Divinity in the form of his composition. Good. Me speaking to you here, right, I'm not speaking, I'm singing. Right. Because all the time and every time I am just dimly aware of what I'm saying to you. It is only afterwards when I listen to the tape that I hear, 'Oh, did I say that, did I say that, did I say that'. Because whatever I say, does not come from my mind. It is interpreted through the mind because the mind is used as an instrument like the flute where some other force, some other power blows its music through it for those that would enjoy it. That too is music. The wind blowing in the trees, that too is music. Everything is music. Everything in life is music. There's nothing but music and music and music and when I say music and music and music, I mean harmony and harmony and harmony. Every bit of existence is nothing but harmony. It is the most perfect melody that could ever, every be composed. It is timeless and beginless and endless. So when we do our meditations and meditations - there are hundreds of methods of meditations - right, we are attuning ourselves to that eternal composition and the compositions which we hear of Composers, great or small are just filtrations, depending upon the degree of purity. So a musician can turn deaf, a poet can turn blind and yet have the greatest perception where his paradise is regained. Yes. Yes. The principle is the same. The principle is the same. Good. The ocean is the same. If you dive in the ocean at Eastbourne or you dive on the other side of the Channel, it is still the same water, the same ocean, the same composition, the same music. But through what is that music filtered, that is the crux of the question. Good. Now, you might like Mozart, someone else would like Beethoven, someone else would like Bach. Fine. Why? Why are there individual preferences? Or someone might like Elvis Presley. Why are there individual preferences? Individual preferences is because of ourselves. Now by that I mean that the harmony within ourselves can be more tuned to the individual personality or trade through that composition. And when we align ourselves or identify ourself to a certai n degree with a Composer's work, that Composer becomes our favourite Composer. You might like Listz and someone else might like Schubert. Right. And the reason, the reason of this one liking that and the other one liking that, is with

9. UK 77- 32 what kind of personality can we attune ourselves. Now these are just intermediary steps. It is a good practice in attuning ourselves to things. And yet if we listen to the greatest Composer of all, there in those realms, we find celestial music. These flowers sing to me. Do you hear them? Yes, you do, you do, you do hear them. Everyone hears these leaves singing aloud. Everyone hears them. Yes. But we close our ears so that the sound does not penetrate. But it is there. That is what I am trying to say. That celestial music, that Divine composition is there. Now, what is mostly meant by celestial music, I'm talking of the ultimate but there are intermediate categories, right, of higher levels of existences where according to Sanskrit, the Kinaras and the Gandoravas, celestial musicians. What it means is this, that beyond our plane of existence, there are other planes of existences and in the other planes of existences, music has a completely different form. Good. A different kind of sound. Has anyone ever heard a choir of a hundred thousand voices? Ah, it’s beautiful. I wish you could listen to it. Its so, so beautiful, a hundred thousand voices in that one beautiful unison and its extent is the entire sky and the whole sky is filled with this music. What do I need radios for when it is there just to tune one self in to listen to that. So the celestial music that one normally refers to is the music from the other spheres from other levels of existences. Good. And it is very, very beautiful. Now in certain systems of Yoga, where the senses become sharpened, to a certain extent many people have found, have experienced this where just out of the blue as the saying would go, one hears some kind of music, some kind of sound. You'd hear the roaring of the ocean, you’d hear the tinkling of bells, you’d hear the rhythmic striking of gongs, you’d hear the music of the Vina, yes, these things can by heard. You’d hear an eternal hum - Aum. All these sights, all these beautiful luminous colours can be experienced and seen. All here and now. How many people have the experience of wafting perfume past their noses beautiful delicate perfume all the time, the entire perfume of the universe is there. And the universe is highly perfumed in such subtlety that the jasmine and the musk and whatever is - so gross, so gross, so gross, you'd never want to use them again once you smell the other perfume. Yes. So, we here and now have all these abilities to listen to celestial music, to listen to those celestial sounds, to smell celestial perfume, and to hear, to hear Divinity, to speak with Divinity, to communicate with a Divine power where no separation exists, where that Divine power becomes you and in that communion that is the real meaning of communion, not taking of wine and bread. The real meaning of communion is to experience that Divinity within oneself. That is communication. That is that togetherness. Good.

10. UK 77- 32 So, coming back to music, you can use music as a form, as a form of meditation. Oh yes. We can become so lost and engrossed in music, fine. There are certain systems of meditation that can take you to a state of relaxation. Now, we have a Professor in South Africa, Professor Gillis - you know him Gita, right - Professor Gillis came to this country and he spent three months here, Len Gillis and he spent three months here in England with Peter Fennick, who is one of our meditators here in England. He spent three months here experimenting on certain forms of meditation that had become very prevalent. Good. And they found that sitting down listening to twenty minutes of good music has brought about the same state of relaxation. And this was done in scientific laboratories, that where so many subjects were used - that bloomin' bell - (General laughter) Aide. Celestial bell! (General laughter) Gururaj. Yes. So they made this experiment here in England. Right. Professor Len Gillis and Peter Fennick experimented on this and then they found that by you sitting down and listening to twenty minutes of music of your choice which you like, brought you down to the same state of relaxation, same drop of the metabolic rate as doing twenty minutes of that kind of meditation. Yeah. Yeah. (General laughter) That is all that was achieved. So, therefore all the various scientific charts were necessary to tell people how good meditation was. But it was achieved what twenty minutes of music can do for you at home. Instead of sitting quietly and closing your eyes and worrying about the pot boiling over on the stove. Good. That's all it achieved, some form of relaxation. Right. But if one wants to go deeper, one has to attune oneself with one’s vibration and this is part of your question to do with mantras. Fine. When one attunes oneself with one's own vibration, with one's own vibratory level, then we go far deeper. We go far deeper than any music could take us. The music would take us to a level of relaxation. It will take us to a level of exhilaration which is still on mind level and emotion level and feeling level. But when we attune ourselves with our personalised technique of our individual vibration then we surpass, we go beyond the level which music can take us to. Then we become one with ourself. Now music as a slight form of meditation is good and listen to music. Very relaxing. It's better to sit down at home listening, after a hard day's work, listening to a good piece of music, instead of sitting down with a bottle of Scotch. Yes. Yeah. People come home and have their sundowners to unwind. I don't object, people must do what they like. And slowly, slowly, slowly they will, as they attune themselves more to themselves, the external needs might become less and less and less and less. We don't force or impose. People improve by themselves. Good. But to sit down and listen to fifteen, twenty minutes of nice music could be very relaxing. Good.

11. UK 77- 32 When the body is relaxed, your meal becomes more enjoyable. You don't suffer so much indigestion. Right. Its no good sitting down to eat after all the trouble your poor wife has taken in preparing that meal for you and you sit down in a puffed up and huffed up state. No, sit down to eat in a relaxed state because then when you say grace, it will have some value. Saying grace must produce gracefulness in us in consuming the food that is on the table, be it dried bread or a king's feast, that's immaterial. Fine. So music has its value like to bring about that certain state of relaxation. But the mantric meditation or any other meditational practice takes us beyond the realms that music can take us. Or else, or else every person that is a good pianist or a good violinist or a good cellist or whatever, should become an enlightened man. But he does not. But it can take one to a lovely state of relaxation. Only thing that one must be careful of that music can also provide mood making. We can get into a nice mood which again revolves on the mind level while the mantric meditation or other kinds of meditations, which many of you practice, take us beyond mood and into our real selves. Now if that bell had not rung, we could have gone on more on this. Okay. But I think it sufficiently covers your question. Good. END

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