1. UK 80- 33 Questioner. Gururaj, could you explain why there have been changes in this movement recently, particularly in its leadership and groups and why this has happened? Gururaj. Good. You know Oscar Wilde, the great English writer, was once stopped by a Custom's Official and he was asked 'Have you anything to declare?' And Oscar Wilde replied 'Nothing at all, except my dignity'. This world is forever subjected to change, and it is the very nature of all happenings in this world, in people's lives, in movements, for movement itself denotes change. Now, changes can come about through many, many factors. There have been many changes in the life of Jesus for example, and those changes were primarily brought about by his actions, because he taught things that would destroy the conventional attitudes of people. So he found opposition, and any opposition brings changes. There are always, have been and always will be people that we could term Judases, people that might be, it does not necessarily apply to our movement, but generally speaking they might be people that are power-hungry. They would like to exert their own ego. Power hungry means possession, gaining of money, name, fame, fortune, whatever. And there are always people that will think or delude their minds into thinking that what he can do, I can do too. Now, he thinks that, or he or they, or whatever the case might be, they would think such things. Where do those thoughts originate? We were talking about thoughts last night - where do they originate? They originate in the mind. It is of mental origination, because of patternings and of studies and where opportunities are sought and the real gist is lost. We are a movement that is heart orientated. What we try and do, and what I, in my small way through the Grace of Divinity try and inspire, is Love. And I have been nothing else but loving. And yet people that teach of love and hope and charity and compassion are attacked by things that are totally opposite it. There is a lovely story in Hindu mythology and I was discussing it with Hugh one morning - it is mythology, but of course it has symbolic meanings. That at the creation of the world, in this vast ocean when the world was to be created, that ocean, ocean of consciousness perhaps, was churned and what was the vehicle they used - the God, the mountain and a snake. And the snake was used as the rope for churning. On the one side was the Assuras or the evil force, and other side it was the Suras, the good force. And they were pulling. Now, as you know about churning, you churn the ocean and they tried to bring up the butter, the cream, the goodness that was in the ocean. So by churning the consciousness through various kinds of practices, one tries and bring out the good. But now here with two forces, the Suras and the Assuras, the good and the bad, and as the good came out, so also its counterpart, the poison came out. And so according to mythology, Shiva did not want the creation to be destroyed, had to destroy the evil force, that poison. So, he drank up the poison and therefore if you see a picture of Shiva, you'd find his throat all blue. He would not allow the poison to enter his heart where purity lies and his throat tur ned blue. And therefore the other name of Shiva is Nilcant, which means Blue Throat.

2. UK 80- 33 Now, what does the story mean? The story means that the greater good that is created in this world, you will always find opposition. You always find factors that oppose good. You will find this in your own lives as well, that developing a high sensitivity you can also become susceptible to the opposing forces, because in relative life opposing forces or the polarities will always exist. So the more good that is created in this world, so much more evil will also come . The man that invented the laws of nuclear physics was for a good purpose. It was used also for an evil purpose. Likewise, take your telephone, how much trouble don't your telephone bring you and how much good doesn't it bring you too. Look at your television, how much good and bad doesn't it bring. So there will always be the law of opposites. But the man established in that Shiva-hood, will just take it so far and never down there to his heart, because his heart will never accept the forces or the laws of opposites. He is beyond that. So to bring about changes, you got to find something. How to bring about changes for one's own gratification, self aggrandisement or self power. Now, the most, vilest way to do that is to try and destroy personalities, try and destroy personalities. The good talk of things beyond abstract ideas, the mediocre talk about things, and the lowest come down to personalities. These things, changes can only be brought about in anything by people. So when they attack personalities with distortions, exaggerations, twisted truths, then a whole chaos is created and the whole beauty of what has happened is lost. It is a queer quirk of human nature that negativities seem to stick in one's mind more powerful than positivities. Shakespeare said it in some way, that 'Men's good deeds are written on water and their bad deeds or so called bad deeds, are written on brass'. Because man's mind is accustomed, his whole lifestyle has been, includes all of us, more negative than positive, or else this would be a happier world. It’s a known fact. They seem to cling on to the spicy, juicy, negative things that could bring about so much destruction in this world. Why did we have a Third World War for example? It was because of Hitler's negativity, that striving for power and possession, wanting to control the world. Yet thousands of people worshipped him because their minds were so attuned. I have been accused, you have some letters, newsletters which some meditators of mine, advocates want to take an international action because they are internationally connected, to sue for defamation and libel. But I said 'No. No'. What do I stand for? You tell me that. I stand for love and for forgiveness. They went so far, and this happened to all of them, - for example before I get on to this, take the example of Mahavir, after whom the Jain religion was founded. Mahavir used to go from village to village and never used to wear clothes. He wanted to be totally open and naked before God, and he was silent for twelve years. So when he went from village to village, they thought he was a madman and when they asked him questions, he kept quiet. So they thought he was a greater madman. And for all those years he was chased from village to village to village and stoned. So a good thing they don't do stoning nowadays. They only throw rotten tomatoes and rotten eggs.

3. UK 80- 33 And yet because of the eternal truths Mahavir taught, the whole religion with millions of followers throughout the world up to today, is existing. I've been to all those Temples, and I've seen myself. Take the life of Buddha. You see whenever a good force arises, there will always be a resistance. Therefore Christ always taught over and over again 'Be Ye of Good Faith'. Not of doubt but of trust, because I could create, or anyone could create, with a little bit of intelligence, all kinds of doubts in your mind. But if you are of good faith, the doubts would be like water on a duck's back. So we take Buddha. There was this demon Mara, with his host of armies, plagued Buddha, and yet Buddha was so firm and his teachings still stand. Take the life of Jesus that gave us eternal truths, like the other Masters. He was the most persecuted man, hated by each and everyone, his own people denounced him, the Sanhedrins, the Pharisees, the whole works. But he stood still and even when Pilate questioned him and said 'Tell me, tell me, I could save you from crucifixion', he remained quiet, even facing death because he knew he would be wasting time. For only those that can understand, will understand and whose eyes were so open at that time to really appreciate what Jesus was teaching. They regarded him to be a trouble maker, a rebel, coming with these revolutionary ideas of love. All the Scribes and the Priests were against him because he would be destroying a whole order. You see? So the point here is this that whenever a good force arises, there will always be a resistance in whatever negative form it could be brought about. Now I am person that never condones nor condemns. Life is what it just should be. Everything in the totality of things is always according to a plan. And whatever problems that has happened here is very, very good. I am happy. It will sift out the weed, the chaff from the wheat and those that are faithful, those that really want to know their inner selves, will know the teachings we stand for. They have thrown so many kinds of accusations against me. They call me an alcoholic. Oh my God! I'll sit down with you for lunch now and then and share a bottle of beer or a glass of cider. That makes me an alcoholic. See how things can be turned and twisted? Oh, I feel so sorry, what can I do? Sorry is not even enough. I can only forgive and I pray that may God give them good sense to get away from this ego trip and try and recognise, for the greatness of any man can only be measured by his humility, his humbleness, by the love he can give, how he could see everyone with an equal eye. The greatest Saint could be sitting here, or the greatest sinner, murderer, rapist; to me they are the same. I do not see the exterior. I see the Divinity that is inside the interior of the person and everyone is Divine. So, many people might have rough edges, so what, they have created the rough edges and they themselves through the power of grace will smooth over the rough

4. UK 80- 33 edges. So, what is the difference in this play of life? Therefore, I always teach of hope, I always teach of 'Don't feel guilty'. Past is past, and today is today, and do not formulate the future upon the dead ashes of the past. Because you can never build anything in burning down a house and trying to build on the ashes thereof. If you want to build something, build it on your own strength, on your own spiritual force that is there. It is there, just for the awakening. And like that in times by, they were called persecutors, I call them friends. They keep me alive. They keep me pushing hard. For IFSU, the International Foundation will never die. It will never ever die. Eternal truths can never die. They will survive any onslaught. If you study the lives of all the saints, you'll find - take the life of St. Augustine, they will always have these sufferings. When we say Jesus suffered for us, these are the sufferings where he even gave his life willingly so that man can understand. But in their very vile deeds, they will remember what good he has brought to us. In our movement, even the so-called persecutors, not one of them can deny that they have not benefited in some way or the other. Each and everyone that has been doing our practices sincerely, have benefited and we've got thousands of letters on our files to show people's appreciation of the benefits that they have received. So, I am nothing else but an ordinary person, more humble than the humblest. I’ve said this many times 'If you are ill, I'll come and wash your backside for you'. I regard myself none higher than the worm that crawls on the floor, for the Divinity in there is the same Divinity in me. But I do know one thing, that through many lifetimes perhaps, through severe practices, many, many years, that I have become a channel for that grace to flow, or else these benefits, these understandings, these realisations, could never come to another, could never be imparted to another. Then you have people wanting to start up things. If you haven't got it, how can you give it? If you haven't got it, how can you give it? Although I had a University education and my education was in commerce, business administration, economics, accountancy, not in philosophy and the things I've read in philosophy would I'm sure not be more than the books that you have read, and yet I could speak to you from the heart of things that you've never ever heard about or could really be touched right deep inside, that here is an eternal truth. Whose power is that? Not mine. Not mine. It is the power of our Father that flows through. For I do not function with the mind. I put the mind aside. All these rationalisations and intellectualisations confuse you more and more. There is a difference between studying and learning. To study, you accumulate knowledge on the mind level, but to learn is to become. It is a becoming, it is a flowering. Divinity is not interested if you are a lotus flower or you are a rose or a carnation. Divinity is not interested in what kind of flower you are, but Divinity is interested in one thing, have you come to me as a bud or have you come to me as an open flower. That is what God wants. That is what we teach.

5. UK 80- 33 Now when it comes to these profound teachings, you always find opposition, people turning things topsy-turvy and do it by all means. Do it with love. Don't do it with hatred and malice. You don't want to gain something by trampling on someone else's toes! Or a businessman for example cutting someone else's neck to gain. So the thing is not the deed but the motivation that is behind it. I was telling some people in Glastonbury the other day, I am sitting here and I slap a young woman, and you are passing there, outside, you say 'Oh, Guruji is so violent. He slaps a woman, how can that be done'. But you're only passing there and that is what you saw. But here I know this woman, this young lady is in a totally hysterical state, and the only way to calm her down is to shock her by slapping her face. What was the motivation? Was it cruelty? Or was it love, to help. Motivation. But the outsider, from a distance, doesn't know. Who is he or she to judge the workings of a guru? Become a guru first, then you'll know. Become a Jesus first then you'll know Jesus, otherwise it is just mental - talk. Become a Buddha then you'll know what a Buddha is. So, it is always said, ‘Gurus are funny people. You can't understand them’. Very funny people, you see? So, when some people, for their personal motives, started destroying what was so beautifully built up, it hurts. But that hurt with me does not last long. You see, five minutes ago, it was a different moment. And anything that is broken down can be built up. Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes. You ask any successful man and he will tell you. Edison that invented the light bulb failed ten thousand times, and it is because of his ten thousand failures that we have light today. What was spiritual light? Isn't that a more difficult path? What is the greatest thing that one can achieve in life? It is that dee p tranquillity, integration within. Not an easy job. One has to persevere. One has to make effort. Yes, and then these great personages, Buddha, Christ, Krishna, their actions were regarded to be so non-conventional. To them convention was just something man-made. They live and lived in a totally different dimension. And until you reach that dimension, you cannot understand them. You cannot analyse them ever. But the path is shown how to reach that dimension. Therefore the Lord said that 'No one reaches the Father but through me' - it is very true. There is meant that consciousness, that Christ consciousness, that Krishna consciousness where man has to reach, in order to know, to become the Divine. So those that have not reached, and regard spiritual movements and things as a money-making affair, a business, as is happening all round the world today where millions are amassed, it is so totally wrong. That is real blasphemy, that in the name of God problems are created, trouble is created. And the greatest sin, if you'd like to use that word, is to break faith, is to break someone's faith. Now, my wife, for example, grew up in a very orthodox Hindu family, and since childhood she was taught to believe in a certain Goddess, which of course with her upbringing and things, is her, is her Deity. I would never tell her she’s wrong.

6. UK 80- 33 'Carry on, that’s also a way, carry on until you reach the understanding where you go beyond all these Deities and approach the real absolute.' I would not break her faith. Because by breaking someone's faith, you are confusing the person, and by confusing the person, you are stopping that person's spiritual progress. And that is wrong. The greatest sin one can commit is to break someone's faith, is to break someone's faith. Now, if a person has faith in something, then naturally the faith increases by some benefit the person has felt. So, if the person feels any benefit in the particular faith the person has, then that for the moment is good for that person. But by breaking it, you are harming the person. So with this chaos that’s happening in the movement, so many people have been harmed and the perpetrators of these actions will know of the law of retribution. That is not in my hands. That is an eternal law that no one can control. Whatever you sow you will reap. It is there. It is there. My hurt is for the confusion and break of faith in people. Otherwise these actions come today and go tomorrow and its piffle, it's a play. But there is only one thing, as I said, that all those people that have taken our teachings, our philosophies, they have come to realisations, they have developed a different attitude in life, a more positive, hopeful, loving attitude. You look at meditators' faces. You can recognise one , especially in our organisation, a mile away - 'Ah, that's a meditator'. A glow comes on the face, there is such a gentleness, a softness. Yes. So as the Bible would say 'Judge the tree by its fruits'. A tree can be gnarled and old and decrepit, but what fruits it gives. Ah, how sweet those fruits are, how energising, how revitalising those fruits are, that's important, not the tree. And the person, the person that does the greatest amount of work in this world, is the person that's always very humble. For love can only bring about humility and not haughtiness. Love diminishes the ego and not inflates it. So any person that wants to embark on some spiritual organisation, if he hasn't got those primary qualities of deepest love, not mental qualities, but from inside. It must well up spontaneously. The mind can block itself, 'Oh I love this, and I am compassionate and I am this'. The mind can bluff himself and you can see it very quickly. A person might have a very smooth tongue, very persuasive and very logical and all that, convincing. How many an innocent man has not been hanged because of the smoothness of tongue and logical and convincing power of the lawyers and advocates. But spiritual people established in spiritual practices know and can see immediately the value of it. And certain letters, and Newsletters, were sent out. I have come across many people sitting in this room who said 'Oh, when we saw it, we immediately saw that the judgement was not upon you, Gururaj, but it was a projection of the person's own mind and reflecting his own personal and inner attitudes'. You see. If a person becomes violent, remember, if a person becomes violent, or angry, or negative towards you, then you are not the cause of it. You are just

7. UK 80- 33 the excuse for that person to vent his negativity or violence, or anger, using you as the excuse. So the fault is not yours. So, therefore, never be angry again at an angry person. Don't be violent to a violent person. Therefore they say, one cheek, give the other. You see. Because it is a venting of the person's own feelings, venting of his own personal motivations for greed or gain or whatever. And if there was purity, it would, the action would be of love and not of violenc e and wilfully wanting to defame or degrade. If I defame or degrade you, what am I really doing? Its not you, it is I that I am expressing. Myself. You see, so when these changes and things come along, I find it good. As I said 'Separate the wheat from the chaff'. We don't want a big movement. It's rather to have a few hundred sincere seekers after truth than to have two hundred million just hangers-on, passengers. You see. Our organisation has never been money orientated, although they tried to introduce that element. They tried to introduce that element, which I was totally against. So oppositions occur. I believe someone is starting, that used to be one of the top persons in our organisation, that is charging one hundred and forty five dollars for an Initiation. I am against it. Totally against it. For example when we teach people and a preparatory form is sent, you know, with the three pound postal order, that just about covers costs. And as a matter of fact, the accountants were telling me that with the cost of living rising so high in South Africa, that six months ago a litre of milk was sixteen cents and today it is forty cents. From sixteen to forty in six months. Okay. Now likewise, that is just an example, likewise costs of stationery, even a file , a cover to put your form in, costs fifteen cents. And then to have it all entered up in books and various processes. That is where the three pounds you send goes into. Rents have to be paid, lights have to be paid, telephones. Things like that. I charge nothing. I gain nothing. We are not interested in money. Now you will ask how do I earn a living. I earn a living by coming here and other places, having these Courses, giving Talks. A labourer is entitled to his labour, if he's got to buy bread. There is no question of accumulation involved at all. So I get a small percentage from the Course which helps me to feed myself and my family. That's all. Nothing else. Nothing gained. And when the month is over, I wouldn't have two pennies left to rub together. And sometimes I am short, I have to lend two pennies, just to hear the sound of it rubbing together. And thanks to the generosity of some very, very kind friends, that's always been sending me a gift or two and things like that. What I'm trying to tell you, is that I very honestly and sincerely tell you that I have dedicated myself entirely for the purpose of truth, so that others too could be helped and others too could find what I have found. That's all. That's the way it started. That's how it started and that's how it will end. And if only these teachings - I've done over eight hundred tapes in these past four years, which amounts to about seventy volumes. I only hope one day that when I'm not around in the physical, that these volumes, these teachings would be published in book form, so they could be perpetuated. I've

8. UK 80- 33 brought about some eternal truths that were really not understood, and put them in the modern context that today's man can understand. And this is not all. I have only started, just at the fringe of the water on the seashore. There is so much I can tell you, that I, please I have to use a personal pronoun - when I say 'I', 'I', I mean the Divinity that's within me. There is so much, much more to be gained and realised. I only pray that with your prayers, the help of Divinity, that the health will keep up, so that I could leave behind when this physical body is gone, some knowledge that has never yet been brought to this world. It was once, but lost, lost with the Upanishads, lost in Alexandria with the burning of the libraries, buried away under the snows in Tibet, scrolls from the Middle East destroyed and not found. And I know them all. I know them all, not by reading, but by communion with God. And this I want to bring, as time becomes more and more ready, as you become more and more ready, then this will all be brought forward. So my dear beloved, do not be concerned at all these little ripples that has happened here. Some people have a great amount of understanding, some a lesser amount of understanding. It is all according to their personal evolution, personal development that these things have to be there. So do not be concerned. I am not. Because I know if God is with me, who can be against me. So, it's all in the game. That's the name of the game. For if there was no resistance, it will stop me from pushing harder. You see the beauty of it. You see how one could use any incident and interpret it in such a way where by only the love and the positivity and the compassion could be shown. The truth could be shown. So, if Jesus never had all that opposition, we would have never known him. And yet in his time, he only had five hundred followers. Five thousand turned up at the riverside - th ree fishes and a few loaves of bread, that four thousand five hundred were curiosity mongers, just to see. He had only five hundred followers. And today you know the millions and millions of the world follow the teachings of Christ. The same thing with Krishna and Buddha. The same thing. So, that is what we are after. Nothing to be disheartened about. You have trouble-makers in everything. You have a troublemaker in your home. You have five children and one will, one will be a naughty boy. It happens everywhere. You have a staff of twenty and you will find one or two rotters in your company, and thank God they leave by themselves, it saves you from sacking them. Ah. Yeah. Yes. But those that are sincere, those that are truth seekers, will always be there. They will always be there. Some will go, some will come. It's like life, people die, people get born. Like in a factory, some will leave the factory and others will come. Like that, it will go on and on. The whole idea is to perpetuate , to keep the ball rolling. That's the idea, that's the idea. And I believe that Liverpool United are very good at that. The y keep the ball rolling. (Gururaj laughs). It's been such a laugh. Yes.

9. UK 80- 33 So, those that are sincere seekers will always be there. But with these things happening, confusions do arise in people's minds and I came here to get rid of these confusions. Whenever I have come to England, we've always had three Courses. Always. And each and every one were practically packed. Not just a hundred people, there wasn't place to sit, we had to refuse people. But because of all these problems and troubles created - but here I can see seekers have really turned up, sincere people that want to learn, that want to know, that want to experience are here. Good. Good. Very good. Rather speak to five people that are sincere than to five hundred that are not. For when two are gathered in His name, He is there, always. That infinite force, indestructible force is always there. And I have the principle that the door is always open. My door is open. Walk in. Walk out. Go away. Like the prodigal son, he will come home back one day, perhaps if not in this life, next life, following life. So after all what's time. What's the time? Five to one. (Gururaj laughs). Aide. Guruji, you have to talk about seeing people individually. Gururaj. Oh yes, I have got to say that. Now what I would like to do this afternoon END