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1. UK 83- 12 Gururaj. Questions? Questioner. Guruji, what’s the role that Judas Escariat played in his betrayal of Jesus a conscious act or was it set up right from the beginning that he would do this, and if so, what was really in it for him? Just twenty pieces of silver? Gururaj. Thirty. Questioner. Yes. (General laughter) Gururaj. You see Judas was a great bargainer. They might have offered him twenty and then he insisted on thirty. (Gururaj laughs) Judas was a very, very brilliant man. He was the most educated of Jesus’ close disciples. It is said that he betrayed Jesus, but there is something far more deeper than that why this took place. He did not want to betray Jesus. He loved Jesus very much really speaking. But there was so much political tension with the Roman bosses and then the Sanhedrins and with this other group of Zealots rising up, that Judas felt that with Jesus’ teachings there's going to be great strife and great fighting amongst the people, there would be rivers of blood. Because Jesus was against, - th e Jews did not like him - he was against all their temple sacrifices of animals and things. Rome did not like him, the rulers did not like him because they felt that he was a threat to the Roman Empire as far as Israel was concerned. And of course the church elders, they were so against of what he taught because he defied them openly. So, Judas felt that the best way to put an end to this and not to have rivers of blood flowing with thousands of people being killed, rather let one man be killed. It was an act of love on the part of Judas. But what a man was killed? Thanks to Judas I say that we still remember Christ today. For the crucifixion and the agony he went through, has so deeply planted his teachings into our minds even after two thousand years. So, there's always two sides to a story. But religions being formulated and reformulated every day naturally distortions come in. And it is very seldom when it comes to history that history is always accurate. Very seldom. The same thing happened to Gandhi. I believe that film is released here now. I saw it in America last August I think it was, where they had the American Premiere of the film and the Indian Embassy for America, the Indian Ambassador invited me to the Premiere and of course Sir Richard Attenborough was there and the lady that played the wife of Gandhi she was there. The man that played the part of Nehru was there. Only Ben Kingsley was not there because he couldn't fly over to attend the American premier. So, this is just by the by. Then after the Premiere they gave a very lavish cocktail party so that gave me a chance to talk to Sir Richard Attenborough and the Ambassador and all those that were

2. UK 83- 12 connected, because the people that were invited to the Premiere were Diplomats and people of that ilk. Fine. What I am really trying to say is that I have seen the picture. It’s a very good film, so if it comes in your area, don't miss it. I would be a good Sales Manager for Paramount Pictures or is it Columbia? (General laughter) Good. So it’s a very nice picture. Now the same thing happened to Gandhi. Apart from the Congress Party, which was the leading party in India, there was another party called the Mahassaba Party, and they were anti Gandhi for one reason, that they felt that the partition of India into Hindustan and Pakistan, Gandhi is the main cause. And they knew, for example the assassin Naturam Ghotsay, he was a newspaper Editor, a brilliant man, the one that pulled the trigger. And what was worked out by the Mahassaba Party became true because millions of people were killed during that period when the refugees from Pakistan came over to India and the refugees from, the Muslims from India went to Pakistan, because there's a lot of religious fanaticism in India. This Muslim-Hindu business has been going on for ages. And there was this group, the main people in the group were fourteen in number and each and everyone was prepared to shoot Gandhi. So what they did is, did it by ballot, took fourteen pieces of paper and marked one with a cross and the one who drew the cross was the one that had to pull the gun. And it happened to be Naturam Ghotsay. Right. So the people, the Mahassaba Party very highly brilliant educated people. They did not kill Gandhi for the sake of killing Gandhi, but they could foresee what would happen and when they read the terms of the partition, the papers, the documents, one hundred and thirty Hindu temples would be given to the Muslims. Now you know as I said before they were fanatics. Now, what the Muslims did was converted those temples into Mosques and you know broke down the Hindu deities and to them, it was real blasphemy and an insult to their God and Gods. I was in India at that time I was a student and I was also mixed up in this fight for independence. And of course our motto was quit India, it is our country. And I used to hate the British. Leave our land, it is our land. I was a young boy, a rebel. But today I love the British s o much, so, so, very, very much. And it was, it all came about through one lady with whom I became very friendly and knowing her, I started knowing the British people. And today I could truly and most, most sincerely say from the bottom of my heart that I love you, I love you, I love you. So, in the same way Gandhi was killed, now not only the one hundred and thirty temples but they were giving away three thousand Krore Rupees, that would work out to about three thousand million, thirty thousand million pounds in our money perhaps, given to Pakistan when India was so poor. So much poverty. So to prevent partition and we knew that the man fighting for the partition, to create Pakistan was Mohammed Ali Jinnah, a fanatic, Moslem fanatic and this Mahassaba Party knew that he was suffering from a terminal disease. That if the partition papers would have not been

3. UK 83- 12 signed and if Jinnah died and he did die three months after the partition was signed. Gandhi wouldn't listen. So it was not Gandhi the man that they wanted to kill but because of the policy not to have bloodshed. I have seen with my own eyes where a group of thugs, Muslim and Hindu, Muslim thugs would go into a home, you know and slash people to pieces. A girl that studied with me, that I was very friendly to in India, - she was a refugee from Pakistan. In front of her she hid away she was small, she hid away and she could see what's happening. They massacred her sisters and brothers. And the way she describes it you can cry, where they took one of, a nipple off her mother's breasts, pulled it up and slashed it with this sharp sword. Such atrocities happened. So, this Mahassaba Party in India did not agree with this partition because they knew that after Jinnah was gone, he's got a terminal illness, that nobody is going to fight for partition. So in the same way Judas killed not because he hated Jesus. It was a political manoeuvre to keep Israel and its various factions together without having war and bloodshed. For in the end, Judas after doing the deed, he didn't keep the money he threw it back. And then he did not hang himself by the way, as they lead us to believe. He drowned himself, he jumped into a well. So, that was a political manoeuvre. There was no hatred in Judas's heart. He was very devoted and he was very honest. He controlled the purse strings of the organisation. Good. Next. You know I never had a chance to work out some new jokes this time. So some of you might have heard these on the Course. But, ah well. This visitor came to this little town and there was a procession. So the host tells the visitor the guest that that's the Duke and Duchess, behind the Duke and Duchess is the Mayor and Mayoress. And there on the other side there's the Vicar and the Vixen (General laughter). I can carry on with another joke if you're not ready. Questioner. We have two more questions which have been inspired by the visit to the stones actually and one is Gururaj. How can you prove what you said? Questioner. Not quite ......... Gururaj. There's only one way is to take you deep into a deep state of meditation whereby you could experience this yourself. It’s the only way.

4. UK 83- 12 Questioner. (Cont'd). This is a question from Maranatha, he says referring back to Avebury, if it was an airport how would those aircraft have been powered. If by nuclear power of one kind or another, could possibly the shattered crystal of Atlantis be the product of a nuclear explosion? Gururaj. Good. That is partly true for the fuel that they used at that time in their hovercrafts and their flying machines was not the petrol or the oil that's used today, but it was a far more advanced form of fuel that could go for long distances. A nd at that time there was outerspace travel as well and for long distances, nuclear energy was used. But for ordinary hopping around it was a different kind, more powerful petrol, high octane, plus, plus, plus, plus. That's true. Questioner. That begs a question that I would like to ask. If they had such technology available to them, why did they use rather crude masses of stone to mark out those approaches? Gururaj. Because those stones, I don't know if you remember me speaking to you about a crystal that could only function mixed with a certain kind of alloy, metal. I think we were talking about it while having lunch. Good. Now the same thing for that luminous light they had to use stone. You see. And it was not necessary or viable to really cut them into square shapes or that. That time when this civilisation more or less began, they were not so concerned about that. The art and beauty only started just six thousand years ago practically. Where for example in India, when they excavated Mohendejaru and Harapa, they found and this is three thousand years before Christ, they found the most perfect sanitation system. You see? So what I am trying to point out that civilisations existed before ours. And as I said earlier on that these things are described in epic books like the Ramayana to the minute detail. Did you know that Hitler during the Second World War employed Hindu Pundits to study all these ancient works? He had some Tibetans there too, to have new inventions for warfare. And after they finished their job, you know bang, bang, bang. By the way there, talking of Hitler, he went to a fortune teller one day and he asked the fortune teller 'Can you tell me the date when I'm going to die?' So the fortune teller looks in the crystal ball and says 'You will die on a Jewish holiday'. Because the day when Jesus died, aahhh, oh, the day when Hitler died, it has to be a Jewish holiday. (General laughter) You know this widower had nine children and he met a widow who had seven and they got married. So a friend says 'That is not a marriage that's a merger'. (Gururaj laughs). (Gururaj coughs) I'm so sorry.

5. UK 83- 12 Questioner. This question is asked by Tony Cox. He says it’s been discovered over the past years or so that there are lines connecting up different parts, different places in the country of considerable antiquity, churches, old wells, and such which are called leylines, Gururaj. Leylines? Questioner. (Cont'd) They seem to be a part of some kind of some very subtle energy. There are also water lines which have been discovered around certain sites. These exist not just in this country but in Europe and I believe they've been discovered in South America. Can you tell us something about what they are and their function? Gururaj. Yeah. The basic constitutions of this world or of the universe as a matter of fact, are five things, fire, earth, air, water and ether, e-t-h-e-r. Right. Fire, earth, air water and ether. Now, these five elements that constitute the universe each and every one them are capable of a great amount of energy. So, water is an energy carrier. For example, our electricity we get from water. It goes through a hydro plant, through a generator and we have light in this room. Good. Water has a certain type of magnetism to it. That is the water that you are speaking of. Fine. And then the leylines are energies that emanate from the earth itself. Someone was telling me today that they went to visit, - Silver Chalice or what was it? Voice. Chalice well, Chalice Hill, Glastonbury. Gururaj. Yeah, where they walked barefeet and distinctly felt a great warmth and a certain kind of energy. Do you see? So these things are there. But up to now technology is still in its stage of infancy. And you will find in time to come greater and greater inventions will come about, technological progress. But that all has to do so much with the mind and so little with the hearts. My teachings everywhere is based on the heart, how to unfold the heart, gain an understanding of what life is all about, so that love can flow. So that once love flows then the technological inventions will not be used in a wrong way or in a destructive way. So there is great truths in these energies that you talk about. Yes. Because those as I said there are five basic elements of which the entire universe is created and it would naturally and it is logically so, that they must contain an energy. You see? Look at fire sun, look at the energy the sun sends us. They are working so hard to have your heating and electrical system by solar energy. It’s possible. Air makes you live. You block off air, you can't live. And ether, it’s a very fine substance. In Sanskrit its called Akasha which is the finest particle of matter than you can find. Right.

6. UK 83- 12 You know here in England we see so many Castles. So this guide was taking some visitors round the castle to show him this one particular castle. So the guide said this castle is six hundred years old and not a stone has been changed, no changes has been done to it. And it is as it was built. So the visitor says that 'I must be having the same landlord'. (Gururaj laughs) You do find landlords like that, extract heavy rents from you and not do a thing to the propert y. A Major was sent a letter by a firm for reference purposes and recommendation that Mr Blank has applied for a job with us and could he give us your recommendation. So the Major writes back, he says, 'Mr Blank's father was a Colonel in the Army - being a Major - was a Colonel in the army. Mr Blank's uncle was a Brigadier. Mr Blank's grandfather was a Duke and his great grandfather also held a very, very high position. So this Major wrote this letter. So a reply comes from the firm saying that we asked for your recommendation because we wanted to employ him in a clerical position and not for breeding. (Gururaj laughs) Next question. Questioner. I'm told that you requested that this question be asked sometime Gururaj. Oh, sure. Questioner. (Cont'd). I'll read it as it is. In recent years many attempts have been made, some successfully, to produce babies other than by the normal or natural method. What happens about the soul in these cases and this in reference to what you said about the relation of the soul to the body ... (inaudible)....? Gururaj. Yeah. I was chatting to someone this morning and in talking of course I said the, at its very inception when the sperm contacts the ovum, that is life itself. And wherever there is that kind of life, there has to be consciousness. But then I said why not ask me this question in Satsang because it might be of interest to other people. Now, at what point does the soul enter the body? Is it at the time of inception, conception or is it at the time when the baby, the foetus develops or is it at the time when it emerges from the mother's womb? The truth is this, that all our bodies are totally porous. If you look at an atom through a powerful microscope you'd find vast spaces. In America I went to Disneyland, they took me to visit and they have one ride there where they take you through a snowflake. You sit in this train-thing and you see the atomic and molecular structure of it. It’s so vast. Likewise, the human body we think its all solid, but we are totally porous. There is matter at places, but a lot of porousness. So all the souls that are seeking for rebirth are floating in and out of us all the time. There are millions of cells floating in and out of me, you, everyone, and you of a certain

7. UK 83- 12 nature and your wife of a certain nature or friend, girlfriend whatever, same thing would attract those souls which would be most compatible, genetically compatible to them. So, when the sperm which is life itself enters the ovum that is the tim e the soul is there. You see. So, when the foetus grows and develops, at first it is neutral and then after it takes on the characteristics of male or female. Good. So, the soul is always there. We, in India, let me give you a little story about this, that when a woman, - before I go onto this, we do have a pregnancy technique for pregnant women which will help them very much, which will help the child to grow spiritually and it will make birth much, much easier. Good. In India what happens is this, that when a child, that when a woman is in the seventh month of pregnancy then they hold a prayer meeting, Shrimant Samskara, it is called. They hold this prayer meeting and if it is the first child the woman is sent to her parent's home. And the reason for this, the reasons are many. Firstly, at that age, at that time of seven months pregnancy, a woman should not really work hard, not overexert herself, normal things yes, fine, but not overexert herself. Now, at her husband's home, where we have the matriarchal system, you know the mother is the boss and she, ahh, yeah. So, the poor woman who’s pregnant would not have to suffer that. Now, who can look after a daughter better than your own mother, not your mother- in -law, that's for sure. So that is why, that is why she is sent away when she's seven months pregnant, after this religious ceremony. Another reason is this, that knowing what men are, uumm, she can remain untouched, which is good, when it comes to about seven months. Now at her mother's home she will have more spare time to herself than rather than at the mother- in -law’s home. Because at the mother- in -law’s home she is regarded as a servant, - 'Do this and do that and do that'. You see? So, having more spare time at her mother's home, she is enjoined and told to read as many religious books as possible, listen to religious stories, listen to religious speakers, read religious books. Now, at that time, at around about the seventh month, the baby starts a certain understanding. Now, if the mother's mind is filled with positive or religious thoughts then it must definitely have an affect on the foetus and this is scientifically proved. You see? I was reading a case one day in the paper, where a woman saw an accident and she was pregnant and the only thing that stuck out from under the car was the black hair of this child that was knocked over. And when her child was born, she had a mole with a black hair growing on it. You see. So scientifically it’s proved, I'm just giving you a very common example, for scientifically it is proved that whatever the mother thinks has some effect on the child, on the baby. So, in the pregnancy practice which a pregnant woman gets taught, she naturally, spontaneously directs Gurushakti or the power of Grace to the baby. You see. And how much more would it not benefit the baby? You see. The most important person in this world is a woman. Oh yes, she's the mother of the world. And women are more devotionally and religiously inclined than men. They are. It

8. UK 83- 12 is their nature. They have more patience, more tolerance and all these things they are born with, which prepares them for motherhood. Every mother knows how difficult it is to bring up a child. Do you see? So, therefore when more and more women in the world start meditating and if you study the statistics of any spiritual organisation, you will find that women are seventy per cent, while men are thirty. Look in this hall for example, so much more women than men, yeah, practical proof, because they are devotionally inclined. It is their makeup. The man is the fighter the go-getter, the man that brings home the bones and beans. So, the more the women meditate, a better generation can be brought about, because they are the mothers of the world. And if they bring forth good issue, good children, naturally the world would be better. Good. Fine. Next? Questioner. A question of my own, which stems from recent reading of a series of novels by Doris Lessing. Gururaj. Never head of her, nevertheless Questioner. (Cont'd) She has startled everybody with her series of novels called Shikosta, the second one I think is 'The marriage between zones three, four and five', very odd titles, I've read about the Syrian experiments. These are all her own attempt to describe in the form of novels a concept of the Universe and the human situation, the soul situation in it. And to me, it's reminded me of Sri Yukteswar's talk to Yogananda, in that way, resurrection and that sort of thing which I .. (Inaudible) ....... At one point Gururaj. Yes. Not resurrection, re-materialisation Questioner. (Cont'd) Re-materialisation. At one point she describes the situation that arises, she is also making very astute comments on the state of the world today, political states too that are very trans-party and she describes a situation where technology advances to such a degree that only a small number of people are actively employed producing the where-with-all for the rest of society to survive on, food, clothing, homes and so on. And the vast majority of people are not so much unemployed but where there just is not any need for them to work and they are left asking the very deep question, 'Why have I been born for?' She describes attempts that were made to fabricate jobs for them but this still didn't answer the deep need of individuals to have a purpose and have work to do. Even when they did fabricated jobs, they had a sense that it was all a charade and had no value. But we are approaching it seems a situation like this and my question is two fold, what would then be the purpose for such people to find themselves in this situation and what would

9. UK 83- 12 be the ................... (Inaudible).... those of us who are teachers of meditation or would be sharers of what we have discovered about spiritual unfoldment, what is our role in relation to such people? Gururaj. Good. Firstly, you use the word novel. Novel has so many meanings. One of it is new and the other is fiction, new fiction. I do not agree with a single word of this author, authoress that you have spoken about. If you study history, there's never been a time when man did not have to work. Always. Since prehistoric times, the man had to go out hunting, to bring food. That was work. So, spirituality to develop spiritual qualities within yourself, to find you Maker that is the main purpose of life. But work helps that purpose. And that in the Eastern philosophy, they call Karma Yoga. So, there will never come a time where man will not need to work to provide for his stomach. There never has been such a time. And even if you go in pre-history or in other Yugas, Yuga means other ages before this age. In Hindu astronomy, there are four Yugas, Satajuga, Draparjuga, Trejuga then Kaliyuga. We are in Kaliyuga. And even if you study pre- history, like the Ramayana, everyone worked and that was Draparyuga. So, there will never ever be a time when man will not need to work. There's one point that could stand out in what this author says it is this, that the time will come, as far as economics go, that a hundred companies only will control the entire commerce of the world. That is logical and could reach its logical conclusion that a hundred companies can control the economics of the entire world. But still those companies will need people to work for them. Now when, during the Industrial Revolution people were so afraid that with all these new machines coming up, people would be jobless but they were not. Jobs are created. Take agriculture, there has to be people to plant seeds. Those hundred men can't go round the world planting seeds for food to grow. You see. So, even taking it from the space point of view, this twenty five thousand miles circumference of this earth, it will have to be peopled, it will be peopled an d those people will have to work. Of course you have a lot of science fiction today and some novels - I never read novels. If I do read something, it will be something that provide me facts. And then I have stopped reading a long time ago, truly in the sense of reading because there's no books that could tell you anything more. Once you become one with God, you need to know nothing more. The only reason I read is to see how other people are thinking, what their views are and how they're expressing it and things like that. And so it is always books on facts rather than fiction. Questioner. (Cont’d) Can I ask you though, I see this, the need for people to work, it has to be meaningful work but we have three and a half million people unemployed in this country. There are twenty million unemployed in China they say, fifteen million in the States. These people do not have meaningful work in the sense that they can exercise responsibility for their lives ...............

10. UK 83- 12 Gururaj. Good. Now Gandhi, Gandhi had a wonderful answer for that and that was one of his reasons for becoming so popular in India. He captured the public imagination. Millions and millions and billions of pounds worth of raw cotton was sent to Manchester. There the cloth got woven and sent back to India at ten times the price. So India was getting poorer. Gandhi came out with the spinning wheel and he said that if each person can spin his own clothes, they call it Haddi, it’s a rough type of material, spin their own clothes, then millions and billions of rupees can be saved for the betterment of the country. So what is really needed in all these countries with high rates of unemployment, is to introduce cottage industries, where a person can work at home and make a living. I'll give you one example of myself. I lived in a village, now you must have all have heard of Poppadoms? Poppadoms, it’s a condiment that you fry and you eat with your food, Poppadoms. Fine. So, I got hold of a few business people in the village, wealthy people. I says 'Are you prepared to invest ten thousand rupees each'. Now ten thousand rupees is about a thousand pounds practically. Good. With that money we approached a carpenter and had him make a, like a mincing machine that could grind and mix, but of wood. Then the whole idea was this, that they mix this flour and the spices, the various kinds of flour that go into making Poppadoms, good, they used to mix it there in that little mill which cost about fifty thousand rupees in all. And women of the village that were sitting at home and not doing anything much except looking after the house and needed some money badly for household expenses, they would go every morning and pick up say two pounds or three pounds of Poppadom flour they'd bring it home and make the Poppadoms. It’s quite an art. Its paper thin. Right. They make it at home in the evening or the next day they take it back and they get paid so many rupees per pound. Do you see? So there's ten, twelve rupees coming into the house every day. Now, winter came and Poppadoms after there made they have to be dried, they have to be dried. How to do it in winter with all these monsoon rains? So I was thinking, and thinking and thinking, I say 'How can this be done?' You can't dry Poppadoms, you need sunlight for it, not rains. How can this be done? So, I started an experiment with an aunt of mine. We took her stove, a primus stove, is that what you call it, primus that you pump, primus stove and we took a big basket and made stands, four stands on this big basket, with the stove in the centre. So, we tried this out. She made the Poppadoms, winter raining outside but she used to throw the Poppadom on top of the basket and it could hold ten, twelve Poppadoms. So, even during winter, the work was getting on. It’s called Cottage Industries. And when you go to an Indian restaurant and you order Poppadoms, you might be eating some Poppadoms that came from my village. (Gururaj laughs) Because then they started exporting to all countries. There you are. So with a bit of inventiveness and if cottage industries are helped by these various Governments, subsidised to a certain extent, wherefore a viable idea of doing something from the home, the Government could open up a bank, give small loans and encourage that and it will not take

11. UK 83- 12 away unemployment totally but it will relieve unemployment to a great extent and the Government will save all the money that they are paying out on dole, and use that very money to help these cottage industries. Do you see? Questioner. If I could just say something in this point. If, take a case of a person living in a very heavy industrial city, who has no job and no immediate chance of one and no one who he can cooperate with in starting a cottage industry, what should his attitude to the situation be? Gururaj. Try, try and try again to get a job. What else can he do? He's got to feed himself, he's got to feed his wife and children and of course the last resort is to go on the dole. And one thing I must say that England has a wonderful Social Security System, and even your National Health System is so wonderful. Now, when I was in Spain I have to take a shot of insulin every day in the morning for diabetes and insulin you have to refrigerate. So rushing away to catch the plane, I forgot my insulin. So, I told my host, I said 'Man this has happened and I should have it because if I don't take those shots, you can get hypoglycemia and you start sweating, you start trembling and you start shaking'. Fine. Oh he says 'Oh, no problem'. We went to the doctor and I told him that this is the insulin I use, N PH40 Isophane. So he wrote out a prescription. I said 'How much?' He said 'Nothing. You just sign this paper.' I says 'Just sign?' He said 'No, the Government pays for it'. So I went to buy three bottles of insulin at the chemist, how much? No charge, just one pound thirty pence handling charges. So, I think England is very advanced in this respect as far as National Health is concerned, National Security is concerned, oh yes. I wouldn't mind coming to live in England and not have a job as a guru then I would go to them, get me a job as a guru. (General laughter) Questioner. Why do you continue to live in South Africa? Gururaj. There are purposes for living in South Africa and politics has a lot to do with it. And I dare not talk about it in public because I've got to go back. In South Africa we have a law called the hundred and eighty day law, where they can arrest you, lock you up without charge or trial, if you say anything against the Government. And then once the hundred and eighty days, six months up and you turn round the corner, they can slap another warrant on you and lock you up for another hundred and eighty days. And like that there are some political leaders that are in jail for the last sixteen, seventeen years. So there are certain political reasons why I'm in South Africa and because of me being there, a lot of good is being done for the non-white people because my approach is never a direct approach. So you are the Minister for Finance or the Minister of the Interior, I would meet you and I know all of them. I'd meet you, invite you home for an Eastern dinner and they love that. Right. Or meet over a cup of tea and plant certain seeds, 'How about doing it this way

12. UK 83- 12 or that way?' I'll give you one example. In Durban, that's about twelve, thirteen hundred miles away from Capetown where I live, the one street is West Street which is like your Oxford Street in London, European area. Now at the bottom end of that street there is street called Gray Street, which is all occupied by Indians, Indians that came a hundred and twenty five years ago and started up small businesses and some of them have expanded so much, owning buildings of fifty, twenty storeys high, big businesses, all that. What the Government wanted to do, because Gray Street is so near West Street, just off it, they wanted to change the whole complex into a European area, a white area and throw out all those Indians there, expropriate their properties. They would lose their livelihood because their livelihood depends upon their little businesses and when a property is expropriated, you know the Government gives you nothing. They don't pay you the market price. So, we estimated that the area was worth about eight hundred million Rand, that is the South African currency, the area was worth eight hundred million Rand at market value. So, I and a few friends went to see the Minister of the Interior. I had a long discussion with him. It was informal. Not a meeting that would be publicised in papers and things like that, informal. I said 'Look, I’d like to have a little chit chat with you and this that' and he said 'Sure, come along and we'll have some tea together'. Fine. And with the grace of God myself and the two friends that were with me, we managed to convince them that 'These people were first brought here as indentured labourers, to develop South Africa, to work in the sugar cane fields. Then you allowed the business class to come in and here a few generations have gone by and they've worked so hard to build this up, how can you take it away?' So, under the Group Areas Act, they wanted it to be done under Section nineteen, which means 'Get out'. But because of this subtle influence, in a friendly way, the Group Area Acts still remains but Section twenty three of the Act was applied. This means that the Indians can remain there and do their businesses there and there are flats there in th e area as well and they can live in those flats, but they cannot transfer it over to another Indian. So if they vacate their apartment or flat or house in that complex, they have to give it over to a member of the white group. So, now we know, none of them are going to move out. Do you see? So a lot of benefits can be done. The place to fight is where there is problems and you help to solve problems. You don't have a fight on 'Easy Street', do you? Jesus, why was he in Israel? Why could he not have moved to another country? But because he was needed there at that time. That's why. But I do intend moving. We're waiting, perhaps we could have a little Ashram and then I would definitely move. Like that. Getting too serious now.

13. UK 83- 12 Three Scots, - are there any Scottish people here? No, this is too far south for them to come. It costs a lot of train fare and petrol money. So these three Scots happened to be in a church and after the sermon the priest made an appeal for money, because the church was getting dilapidated and they needed money for repairs. So they said 'Please, we are passing the plate around and give from the very bottom of your pocket, please be generous because our church is in dire need of funds to fix the ceiling and the walls and this that and the other'. Now, as the plate was approaching, these three Scotsmen, they thought to themselves 'Oh, no not going to give money'. So, as the plate came nearer, the one Scotsman fainted and the other two carried him out. (General laughter) You see these newlyweds - now you know what it is, they were going on a honeymoon and getting off the train. And it is funny that when you see newlyweds people always like to look at them, you know. It actually become staring at th em, really and everybody like to see newlywed, newly married couple. So, they were sitting in this train before the station came where they were supposed to get off. And the wife says to the husband, ‘Let us make it appear in such a way that we've been married for a long time and not newlyweds, married for a long time'. So, the husband says 'That's very easy, you carry the suitcases'. (Gururaj laughs) That's what they do you know. During courtships days and during the early days of marriage, 'Yes my darling, yes my darling, this I do and that I do'. But after a couple of years, 'You carry the suitcases'. Then this other couple ah, went to a doctor and the doctor advised that 'You two must have exercises'. Right. So this friend asks John, (Gururaj laughs) the friend asks John, 'So what do you do about the exercises?' So John says, 'You know where I stay, it’s an old farm, lots of ground there and I bought myself, I'm very near the golflinks, so I bought mysel f a set of golf clubs'. And then the friend asked, 'What did you buy for your wife?' 'A lawnmower'. (General laughter). Yes. You know there was this old woman pushing up a perambulator, pram up a hill. I never had the chance to work out new jokes. Some of you that were on the Course have heard these, but for others, we've got to be giving. So, this woman, this old woman was pushing up the pram up the hill and there a kindly Vicar saw this and he goes up to the old woman and says, 'Madam, may I help you push your pram?' So she said, 'Oh thank you, Sir' and the Vicar helped the old lady push up the pram to the top of the hill. And so the old lady says 'Thank you very much, Sir'. And the Vicar says, 'To give me a little reward, do you mind if I kiss the baby?' The old woman says, 'What baby? This is me old man's beer'. (General laughter)

14. UK 83- 12 Life is such fun. Life is such fun. It’s how we take it. You can apply a positive attitude and you can apply a negative attitude to any situation. And as you know my favourite saying which I have repeated a million times 'Two men behind prison bars, one saw mud, the other saw stars'. Both in the same circumstances, one could only see gloom and the other could see glory. So meditate, meditate, meditate and learn to see the glory of God. Okay. Questioner. Before you leave, could we ask if you would ......... (Inaudible) Gururaj. Oh yes why not? Questioner.(Cont’d) And then .. ........... (Inaudible) a group photo................. (Inaudible) Gururaj. Because I've got some Initiations to do this evening. Yeah, we'll do that. Which room are we going to use, John or Rajesh? Voice.. The one at the back. Gururaj. Okay. Fine. Good. We'll have to take a symbol there. Good. (Gururaj starts chanting and the Group joins in) O Betaji, O Betaji,............................ Thank you. We can jazz it up. It’s been such fun, nice to have been with you all, so beautiful. And those of our visitors that are here that have not started meditating, do try to start, for the proof of the pudding lies in the eating. Try it. Worth it. END

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