United States 77-29

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1. U S 77 - 29 GURURAJ: Fine. Questions. AMRIT: Guruji, there was part two of a question that was answered this morning that, I think, everyone would love to hear the answer to part two. The question was, "What is the relationship between the angelic and human kingdom?" GURURAJ: What do we want to bother with angels for? Really speaking everyone is trying to find an angel a living angel in human form. Nevertheless, within all existence there are stratas of existence. Now, the stratas of existence of which angels are also a part, do fall w ithin the realms of relativity. In other words, angels have not transcended the boundaries of relativity, because that for an angel too it's a far way to go. Good. Now, it is said in some of the scriptures that beyond our level of existence the human bei ng is practically in the middle of all existence. There are seven lower forms of existences, and there are still seven forms of higher existences in the universe. Now, these existences, the lower or the higher form of existence, and man being in between, as we said, are all relative. And the degree...they are the same, but the difference is just in degree. The lower forms of existences have a instinctive way of life that is not guided by intellectual capacity, and it is only when we reach the stage of man that the consciousness comes to the fore and the intellect starts working. Good. Now, if we can experience a high state of consciousness in this very human form, then it means that we have traversed and gone right across all the other existences that ar e beyond us. In other words, it would be a direct line to Divinity or to the absolute, while still remaining in human form. Now, we have discussed this before that man can be reborn on this planet to learn certain lessons which are necessary for him to evolve, and this planet might be the most conducive place where he could learn those lessons. But there are other existences where man still needs to learn, but he has to learn things in a different dimension. There are many evolved beings who have becom e masters of the three dimensions that we know of. But yet for his progress he has to learn something of the fourth dimension, the fifth dimension, sixth, and the seventh dimension, until he reaches the stage of absoluteness where he and the Father become s one. He emerges away in the totality of all existence. Now, when we talk of the various levels of existences, we are talking in a linear fashion that, as we have said, is controlled by time and space and causality. So even the levels of existences that are beyond us of a higher level are also subjected to those rules of time, space and causality. Because the very reason when man sheds this body and does not require human form any more and goes into a different dimension, do remember that that different dimension has been created by man for a need, a necessity. And that necessity is always for the sake of evolution.

2. U S 77 - 29 Now, in the other forms of existences...let us take...there are certain Sanskrit terms where we have, for example, the [ghandarva loka?], the celestial musicians. Good. And like that there are various other [lokas?], and [lokas?] means states of existenc es. Now, in the realm of the states of existences there are subtler qualities of man that are exercised. Man can perceive through different and greater dimensions than what he could normally do here. Here we are limited. The average man is limited by th ree dimensions. Fine. But in the fourth dimension there would be a state where everything, everything is of such a subtle matter, and that subtle matter would be far more interpenetrating than the matter we know of here. We have a block of wood there, a nd we have a block of wood over here, and we experience, because of our limitations of three dimensions, we experience the separation of the two blocks. Good. But in the fourth dimension, also ruled by relativity, one does not experience the separation. And that is where, by not experiencing the separation in the other dimension, verbal communication becomes unnecessary, physical communication becomes unnecessary. In other words, all the grosser senses we have: hearing, touching, seeing, smelling, all th ose senses become unnecessary, because we have now gone beyond the need of the senses. So in another dimension the communication is just automatic. Now, we have experienced this here. And we have experienced it, many of us had the experience where I wo uld think of tea and a person close to me or tuned to me automatically has tea going the kettle is on. A non verbal communication where the thought is just picked up. Hm? Good. And before I say tea, the reply I would get is, "The kettle is on." Now, many of us have that experience. So at that moment, at that moment we are experiencing things that are, that cannot be intellectualized, it cannot be dissected, but it is a reality. Good. Now, we only experience, the average man only has glimpses of thi s reality. But living in this embodied form, these glimpses could be made permanent. So man as he is is capable of going through all the dimensions that he would eventually experience in other forms with other names. The angelic kingdom is one of those d imensions. Now, when man develops to a state of a far subtler matter, in other words a state where the grosser mind, the conscious mind is not used, and where deeper layers of the mind is used, for there, after discarding the body, and if a man is due to live in a different dimension, he also at that time discards from his subtle self the gross element of the conscious body. So then he begins to operate from deeper levels of his subtle mind. Fine. Now, in all these various existences we operate upon diff erent levels of the same mind. I have explained this before that the mind is as vast as the universe. The degree is one of grossness or subtleness. We at this level, we at this level experience and live with the conscious mind. An animal, for example, he lives within the flow, within the propulsion, of evolution devoid of conscious consciousness. Hm? He lives devoid of a conscious consciousness. So psychologists would term that collective instinct. These are definitions. So here we have seen

3. U S 77 - 29 that animals: dogs, cats, horses, what have you, live in this collective instinctiveness. Man has advanced a bit where he can use the grosser level of his conscious mind. So it stands to reason that there could be other entities living in a different dimensio n that could exist in a stage that is beyond the ten percent of the conscious mind that man uses. So in the angelic kingdom, in the angelic kingdom what is used is the subtler level of the mind. Now, using the subtler level of the mind, one experiences g reater joy. It is not the supreme joy, but in that state, the angelic state, one experiences a greater joy. Now, who reaches that stage? The person that has lived in this lifetime and that has become a master of the conscious mind. And mastery of the c onscious mind can very consciously be brought about by right thinking and right action. And that is how mastery of it is gained. Gaining mastery of something means that one is beyond it. And only by being beyond it can one assume mastery. Say, for examp le, a person has a bad habit. Say I was a playboy in my young days. Okay. Fine. But by having gone beyond that stage of being a playboy, I could talk about it very freely and openly for I have none to fear. And a person can only talk about something w hen he is not involved in it anymore. He has transcended that stage. He has progressed from that stage. Good. He has subdued or controlled and gone beyond. Fine. So in the angelic kingdom, in the angelic kingdom the person has gone beyond the conscious , three dimensional level of the mind. And the angel is functioning on a subtler level of the mind where there is an automatic communication. Now, when there is an automatic communication between two entities, there is a lesser chance of any form of fric tion. Because as soon as you think a thought of hatred, immediately it is known and felt by the other party. So no scope or vent is given to those kinds of negativities. And if no scope nor vent is given to the negativities, then only positivity could r esult. So therefore in the angelic kingdom there is great harmony. There is great harmony between all those souls living in a subtle state. I have said that all can reach the angelic kingdom where a great peace and joy and harmony is felt. And the condi tions for that can be created here and now. Because if today is looked after, then tomorrow looks after itself. So we are worried about the present. Now, it is not necessary to reach the angelic state. Fine. You have your American highways here, and if you are traveling from Los Angeles to Las Vegas you do not need to go through all the little towns. There is a highway that bypasses all these little towns. You do not want to be caught up with the traffic lights and traffic jams. There is a highway. S o in the spiritual field too there is a highway where the Supreme Being, the totality of all existence, could be reached bypassing all these little towns of existence, all these little dimensions. Good. But if we do not reach, if we do not reach the tota lity or being, fine. When the car hasn't got enough petrol to reach there, fine. It will have to go off the highway and make those

4. U S 77 - 29 stops at those little towns to refuel the car, to get refreshment. Fine. Now, those are the stops that we make in the vari ous planes of existences to reach the final destination. Now, if our life is lived in a manner of right thinking, right action and proper meditation, then we accrue good karma. And yet through the meditations it is not a promise that everyone will reach that supreme state. Meditation, right living and right thinking is also but a path the highway. It is also a path. Fine. So while we have these three score years and ten, we might not be able to complete the journey. But we have been doing our practic es, we have been living a good life, so after leaving the body the subtle body goes to another plane of existence. [COUGHS] Pardon. [COUGHS] I like the American cough. It sounds a bit different from a South African cough. [LAUGHTER] Thank you, Tom. So not having gained the final state in this lifetime, we have made some progress by doing the right things, by thinking the right things and by doing our spiritual practices, fine, but not having reached the final stage. And it is a must that whichever is born must also die. It is a law. So when this body is discarded the subtle body goes to a state which is a different dimension it could be an angelic state. Now, in the angelic state by having lived a good life, by accruing good karma, one can experien ce the fruits of good karma. Now, remember, all forms of karma is binding, good or bad. All forms of karma is binding. But good karma leads us forward and makes life more smoother. It makes the life, not the physical life only, but the subtle, the life o f the subtle body, that too becomes more smoother, and we reach into a different dimension where greater joy is experienced. And that is the angelic state. So the difference between the state of man and the state of angel is just a matter of degree. It i s the same thing and still under the bondage of karmic laws. There's a lovely little saying from Milarepa, most of you might have read him, where he says that, "When I was a young man I did all black deeds. When I grew older and gained some understanding I did white deeds. And now when I have reached my destination I am beyond the black deeds and the white deeds." What he meant there that he has gone beyond the law of opposites. He has gone beyond the law of opposites and reached the final stage, which it total freedom. So karma, being a very valid law it has to function in every sphere of relativity. It has to function in every dimension. So the angel too functions within the law of karma. Fine. But by having done good karma, and with no necessity left to take birth as a human being again, you go to this dimension, the angelic dimension where everything is nothing else but joy. A inner subtle communication between various other angels there, and great harmony is experienced. Not total harmony, but greater harmony than the human kingdom is experienced there.

5. U S 77 - 29 Now, the question would arise that in that angelic state would there be any progress. Would we, in that angelic state, evolve? The answer is no. Because the reason is very simple. In the ang elic state we remain in the subtle body. We remain in the subtle body, and the spirit though it shines more powerfully through the subtle body, the spiritual self of man needs total expression. But in the angelic form it cannot have total expression, bec ause it is devoid of the gross body. It only functions on the one level of the subtle body, and not on the level of the physical body. Now, if Divinity is totality, then the physical body is also part and parcel of that totality. So in human form we hav e a greater chance, a greater chance of evolving because our totality that is us can function. We have the body, we have the subtle body, and the spiritual body is always there. So in my opinion, and not an opinion, something more positive than an opinion , it is my assertion that the human life is far more important than the angelic life. The angelic life is a life in a dimension where y ou will just enjoy, and just enjoyment is not conducive to progress. It is only the sun that will bring the rain. It i s only darkness that will bring the light. Fine. Good. So in the angelic body we are enjoying the fruits of our karma. Now, we do not need to have the angelic body to experience the fruits of the karma, we can experience it here and now on this planet. We can experience it here and now on this planet. Now, the relationship between the angelic body and the physical body is immense. There on one hand there is no relationship, and on the other hand there is a relationship. It is very paradoxical. Let us explain that. Without having had this physical body and gone beyond the realms of the physical body, gone beyond the realms of ever needing a physical body again, we reach that subtle body of the angelic form. But the first steppingstone had been the gre ater steppingstone to that dimensional state had been the physical self. So there lies the relationship. It is an extension, a growth of the physical body. So we can very safely say that when we exist entirely in the angelic body we have progressed more, we are further on the path than the physical body, as we could say that we are further on the path than the animal. Good. So, so there remains this connection, there remain this connection, that even in man, although he has passed now the stage of anim al, there is still animalism in him, residing in him in a subtle form. And we do find many people acting as animals when they allow the animalistic nature, or the animalistic samskaras to dominate their life. Now, in the angelic form this too can happen. This too can happen where human qualities could be expressed. Now, for the proper angel, evolved angel, he has subdued totally the instincts or the qualities of man. But other angels, average angels, can express [STARTS CHUCKLING] in that angelic form.. .[LAUGHS] can express in that angelic form certain human qualities. Therefore, if you see some pictures done by artists, true artists, you do find a closeness between a female angel and a male angel. And these are expressions of that which they had exper ienced in the form of man. As we experience certain animalistic instincts, so the angels can experience, the average ones, the experiences of the form

6. U S 77 - 29 of man where certain comforts and needs were, and were necessary. So in these pictures we see two angel s in close embrace, and yet not having a physical body there would not be an expression of lovemaking. But in the samskaras of the angels the memory of that warmth and that closeness is there, and therefore very spontaneously they do these things. Very s pontaneously they do these things, but having lost the need of the physical body the communication is totally subtle, and there is a greater mergence between two angels than man experiences here. The average man could not experience the mergence of two be ings as two angels would. Now, the state in that dimension is dependant, and has a relationship with the human form. Good. Firstly, the human form was the steppingstone to reach that stage. And secondly the angelic form too carries with it the memory of its past existence as man. And amongst angels too there are angels of various categories. Some more highly developed, some more highly evolved than others. So even the physical needs of physical man is expressed in a very subtle form in that body, so t herefore there is this relationship between man and angel. Now, you hear some stories sometimes that an angel appeared to me. An angel appeared to me in my dream. And funny enough angels have a habit of always coming in your dreams, not when you're awa ke. Yeah. Yeah. They always come to you in a dream state. Or perhaps in a state of wakefulness. But the condition is this that the conscious mind has to be subdued or be put to sleep. Now, there are many meditators that have written to me that they h ave seen angelic visions. In England, for example, at the [Cynical?], a sister there...what is here name? Do you remember? VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] Sister...? GURURAJ: Margaret? VOICE: Elizabeth. That's right. Sister Elizabeth. GURURAJ: Yeah, Sister Elizabeth when she was initiated first time into the practice, she is in charge of the convent there where we held a deepening course like this. And when she was initiated she experienced the Madonna and the Child the angelic form of the Madonna and the Child. Now, these forms can be experienced, and it is nothing supernatural. Now, I have always said that there is no such thing as supernatural. Everything is just natural. And it is only the laws that we don't understand, we cal l them supernatural. When we start understanding them, then they become very natural. Twenty, thirty years ago the computer was beyond man's conception. And today the laws of the computer, because it is

7. U S 77 - 29 understood, it is something just natural, and anyo ne can take up a course in computer management or whichever field of the computer he wishes to enter into. So this Sister Elizabeth she experienced at the time of her initiation the angelic for m of the Madonna and Child. Right. What happened there that in the state of meditation she became oblivious of her conscious mind, and the subtler levels of the mind came to the fore. And it is with the subtler levels of the mind that she had this vision or this perception. Fine. Good. That is one way that thi s can be achieved through meditation. The other way is when we go into natural sleep and where the conscious mind is subdued. And then we allow the subtler levels of the mind, call it subconscious mind if you wish to, is brought into play. Now, if that m ind is attuned more towards the superconscious mind, which is still at the further end of the mind, the purer end, the sattvic end of the mind.... This we can discuss. It's a very important topic. We won't have a chance to finish it today. Of the level s of existences in terms of how matter is divided between tamas, rajas, and sattva. Good. We will go into that before this course is over. Now, when the conscious mind, the grosser mind, is gone to sleep and the middle portion of the mind, or the subcon scious mind, is awake during the sleep it would have dreams. It would have dreams and the finer the subconscious mind has reached, the finer levels it has reached, or the degree of purification it has reached, the more the superconscious mind can shine th rough. So when we read in the scriptures that Such and Such had a vision and told him this, that and the other, then be sure to know, be sure to know that he had a certain purity of the subconscious level of the mind. And having brought the subconsci ous level of the mind to a certain degree of subtlety, he made contact with another dimension where the angelic beings reside. And the angelic beings, as we have said before, because they operate on a subtler level of the mind, they have greater clarity o f vision. Now, we could use an analogy. I have used it in one of the talks on the last course. We picture a building six or seven stories high. And we have a road coming this way, and another road going that way. Now, if a man is standing on the corner of the building, he has a clear view of both the roads where it meets on the corner. Now, let us assume that two motorcars, one is coming from one road, and the other is coming on the other road. Now, the man standing on the corner of this tall building, he can see that this car is coming at a very fast speed, and the other car is also coming at a very fast speed. Now, this man on top of the building is aware that if this continues then there is going to be a collision on the corner because he is standi ng at a higher level. So his perspective is vaster, wider. But the two people driving those two cars they are only conscious of the road that they are traveling on and not conscious of the road which is around the corner. But the man that is standing on top of the building could see very clearly, and judge by the speed and the way the two drivers are driving that a collision is bound to occur. Now, this in analogy form explains somewhat some of the things in the scriptures where they say that such and s uch a person had a visitation from an angel. Now, the angel, operating

8. U S 77 - 29 from the subtler level of the mind, has a vaster perspective. The angel is like this person standing at the corner, on the corner, on the rooftop of this tall building. Good. Now, if man's mind is purified enough, right, not totally pure, not the totality that we talk of when we talk of Divinity, but if it has attained a certain amount of purity, then in dreamstate... [END SIDE ONE] GURURAJ: ...wake now, is it? Good. [LAUGHTER ] So when a person goes to sleep and the conscious mind goes to sleep, and if his subconscious or the other stratas of the mind are awake and finely tuned, it can tune itself with other dimensions. And by tuning itself with the angelic dimension, a person can definitely have a visitation. And from that dimension, from the angelic dimension, or from a vaster viewpoint, the directions that are given could be very truthful and applicable to our daily lives. So there is a great amount of truth in the scriptu res that describe the visitations of angels, where the subtler mind can contact other subtler levels of the universe. So therefore, coming back to the question there is a definite relationship in this sense between the angelic kingdom and the human kingdo m. Okay. Fine. VOICE: Can I ask one question? GURURAJ: Yes. VOICE: It wasn't clear, and one part sounded as though that we could evolve out of humanity, and if we wanted to stay in relativity that we might inhabit the angelic kingdom. Is that a po ssibility? GURURAJ: That is a possibility. Oh, yes. It is a possibility. But you are an angel as you are. [LAUGHTER] [APPLAUSE] VOICE: [INAUDIBLE]

9. U S 77 - 29 GURURAJ: Oh, yes. [COUGHING] Pardon me. The American cough again. It's alright. Thank you. Carry on, please. VOICE: [PARTIALLY INAUDIBLE] I don't really understand exactly in my mind what I think Christ was. [Son?] of the Father [????] It soun ds to me like they were [super?], you know, they were people that had completely finish their karma. And it sounds to me like it probably [INAUDIBLE]. [GURURAJ COUGHING MAKES THIS SECTION HARD TO UNDERSTAND] ...Krishna. GURURAJ: Yes, what you are talki ng of avataras that specially take birth on this earth for the sake of a mission. Now, if you read the Gita you would find Krishna saying that when evil rises, to create a balance, I will come back again from age to age. You'd find this in the Gita. That is in the realm of the avataras. But when I called you an angel what I meant was this, that you can exercise, while you are still physically embodied, you can exercise the subtler levels of your mind apart from the conscious mind. You can exercise the s ubtler levels of the mind and be in communication with the angelic kingdom, and yet living on this earth acquire the harmonious qualities of the angels. So be an angel, love. [LAUGHTER] GITA: Guruji, could one, in the process of evolution [INAUDIBLE], and then realize where one was and make this decision to return to human form [INAUDIBLE]? GURURAJ: Yah. Some of the scriptures also say that the angels in, some of the scriptures say that the angels envy man, because in that dimension you are just rece iving the fruits of your actions. You have done good karma and you are being paid for that good karma. That is in the angelic kingdom. Now, when the angel has exhausted the good karma that it has enjoyed and it has to evolve, then it enters again into th e three dimensional realms. Now, when he enters the three dimensional realms it does not necessarily mean this little planet Earth. We are not even a speck of dust in the universe. But there are other planets that operate on the same three dimensional l evel that we operate upon. So the angel too, because he envies, because he too after exhausting his good karma wants to progress more, he will after enjoying it in the fourth dimension, he will come back in the three dimension and get upon itself a physic al form whereby the totality of Divinity becomes fully expressed. Where Divinity expresses itself in the physical and the subtle. And, of course, the spiritual quality is forever permanent. The unchanging amidst al l the changes of the physical and the m ental. Yes, that is true.

10. U S 77 - 29 VOICE: Then [Karin?] could be an angel. GURURAJ: Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Why did you choose this place? [LAUGHTER] So it's just going on to nine. Do you want to break, or shall we carry on with the second mee ting? A coffee break. Is that arranged? Good. Fine. Enjoy the coffee. And not too much sugar in it. [LAUGHTER] Good. Fine. And we meet back in half an hour? AMRIT: Right. Nine thirty. GURURAJ: Yah, nine thirty. And of course the purpose o f the next meeting is to go into details, I'm sure Amrit has explained all this, to go into details and explanations of the new advanced techniques that you had given. I'm sure you have tons of questions to ask. And we have a lot of explanations to give. Okay. **** END ****


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