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2. U S 78 - 7 GURURAJ: Beautiful question. Now the symptoms that have been described are the true marks of a novice. That's how everyone starts. That is the proper start, where in the beginning certain glimpses are received of how much one is capable of being. Hm? How much one could go beyond the limitations one is put into. With these glimpses there is always a dawning of light, and that light is the hope that shines eternally in the human breast, chest, whatever. So, when a person develop s this longing and feels at times a total mergence with any object, not necessarily a guru, if one just lets go, if one just lets go, you will experience far greater bliss and a far greater oneness, although to say "a fa r greater oneness" is a contradictio n of terms. Why we use, why we contradict these terms is simply this, that here an analysis is taking place. We are analyzing the feeling that one has experienced. Good. Now, mental analysis of the feeling that one has experienced is always a post morte m. And those post mortems could become very, very limiting. So, therefore, the next time when the feeling wells up again, you are reminded of the post mortem more than of the experience. If you have enjoyed a certain dish a dish of strawberries and ic e cream. Fine. You love strawberries and ice cream. Fine. When that is served to you as dessert, your mind will immediately associate itself with the previous experience you have had of the taste of strawberries and ice cream. Now, what will happen in that case is this, that your very experience of the moment in eating the strawberries and ice cream would have a limiting effect. Because you are comparing an experience that wells from deep within with the thought processes of your own mind. Now, if we c ould live a life where every moment seems to be new, and that bowl of strawberries and ice cream is the first time you are seeing it, how much more the enjoyment would be, because it would be devoid of all association of ideas! Now, the first dish of str awberries you had, those might have been very sweet. The second lot of strawberries might not be so sweet, hm? So here a conflict will arise, and that conflict will hold you back in devaluing the value of strawberries. Then you will say that those straw berries are sometimes sweet and sometimes sour. Now if you had not known the sweet strawberries, you would enjoy the sour strawberries now. You will, because you would think that it is the inherent nature of that strawberry to have that bit of sourness i n it. There are people that enjoy sourness more than sweetness; it's just a matter of taste. Likewise, when it comes to spiritual experiences, one should just enjoy them, enjoy them, and not analyze them later. By analysis, to repeat again, we are limit ing it. Now, what happens in this limitation is this, that this limitation breeds expectation. So the next time you have similar experience, you would expect it to be of equal stature, or even more. And man, with his inherent greed, will want to have mor e. Then you feel disappointed. Then you feel cut off. Then you feel that why can this not be continuing, permanent experience. So, as we have said so many times before, what comes between reality and your real self is the mind.

3. U S 78 - 7 What has recognized the e xperience? Has the experience experienced itself? Hm? Or has the mind experienced it? That is the question. Now, for any experience to be translated through the mind, you would not feel the full impact of the experience, because it is being filtered t hrough the mind. And the mind is not pure enough or clean enough to give it or put through it the total impact of the light that is supposed to shine through it. And this is, of course, the limitation. Now, when a person experiences an experience for its own sake, then what happens is this, that there is no experiencer. There is only the experience. And who enjoys the experience? The experience enjoys the experience itself. Now, this is very difficult to understand with the mind, but it could be very well understood if one has experienced it. So, again to repeat, the limiting factor is the mind, because the mind tries to analyze; and as soon as it starts analyzing the experience, the value, or most of t he value of the experience, is lost. Why is it lost? Because the mind refuses to surrender to the experience. The mind is nothing but one's ego self. The totality of one's mind is the totality of all the impressions gained through various lifetimes. T hat is the mind. And the mind is the personality of the person, and the personality of the person is his or her ego self. So here you find the ego self with the analysis cropping up forever associating itself with other experiences. Forever whirling ar ound within itself, the mind is capable of very few limited things. The one thing it is capable of is whirling thoughts. It just whirls and whirls and whirls. Now each and everyone of you here have experienced this. You have a thought in mind in the mo rning, and the whole day through the same thought will whirl around in the mind, whirl and whirl and whirl. Hm? What has the mind achieved? Nothing at all. It is like as if the mind is a whirlpool. It is in a whirlpool ; therefore, it whirls. Hm? Yes. The other thing the mind is capable of doing is association of ideas. And you'd be surprised how it runs away. How it runs away with you, that you'll start thinking of one object and you'll land up somewhere far away. You'll start thinking of an apple; from the apple you start thinking of the color; then that color, the redness of the apple, will start making you think of the red dress you bought; and then that red dress you bought will start making you think of the shop assistant that served you she was nasty. Hm? Right. And then that nastiness will be associated with the hurried kiss your husband gave you and just ran off to his bus. And then, and then from there, you'll start thinking of buses. "Why must I travel by bus?" My husband should buy me a car!" Yes. And once you start thinking of the car, then you start thinking, "Now what kind of car? Look it, Dodge is no good because Mrs. Jones next door has a Cadillac." You see how the mind works. From the apple you've reached a Cadillac. And that is what the mind does. What the mind succeeds in doing all the time without fail is wasting time. Yes, that is what the mind does. So you can see how limited man's mind is. Man's mind, or the ego self of man, is keeping one away from one's reality . Now when one has this experience of being drawn to an object, say, to a guru, in this case, so deeply drawn, what you

4. U S 78 - 7 are doing is this, that you are not drawing yourself out of yourself, but you are drawing yourself deeper within yourself by using the outer object. It is like a child that learns adding and has the little adding thing with the marbles on it what do they call that? [From audience: "Abacus."] Abacus. Hm? O.K. So it uses an outer object to count, but the counting goes within himsel f. That is only the outer object. So, likewise, when you feel so closely drawn to the object of one's adoration, or love, or whatever the case might be, one is in reality going deep within oneself, because you can only express that which is within you. You cannot express any more, and neither any less. So, the love a man feels for his wife, or the love the wife feels for the husband, is just an expression of how much there is within that person himself. And that person uses the wife or the husband as th e object to express that which is within oneself. Hm? Good. Now this applies to all emotions, not only love. It applies to hate and it applies to every positive or every negative emoti on one has. There, too, one is limited by the mind. Now, there are moments when the husband could feel so, so tender to his wife, and yet a thought just crops up in the midst of this tenderness. In the midst of this beautiful tenderness, a thought crops up about something at the office. How dis concordant it could bec ome! It only shows, it only shows that that tenderness had been on a very surface level. It had been some tenderness, yes. But on a surface level. Because if it was at a far deeper level, all the thoughts of the office, or the work, or the business, or whatever the case might be, or the car that has to go for service, that would never crop up. You'd be totally lost in tenderness. Not because of the wife, and not because of his self, but because of tenderness itself. You are not there. The wife is no t there. Only tenderness remains; only that love remains. Likewise, in the spiritual experience when the person is so drawn, and if he should just let go! Let things happen as they would want to happen and stop trying to save oneself from the experience. You are actually missing a wonderful opportunity of experiencing your real self. The horse is running so beautifully, what a lovely run, you know, trotting down the road, and you are pulling the reins so abruptly! Now that must be avoided. That must b e avoided at all cost. Go with the experience; flow with the tide. Flow with the current, and that current is very, very sweet. It's very sweet. And it multiplies. As it flows, greater and greater momentum is gained until the river merges away totally in the ocean. It's like the example which Ramakrishna gives of the salt doll that dived into the ocean and melted away in the ocean. Where is the doll? It merged away in the waters of the ocean. Now that is the experience one has to have, and you can only gain that experience if you lose the ego, if you stop clinging to the little self which seems so important. Why is the little self so important? Why? Why? Because you have lived so many lives and you have identified yourself not with reality, but with unreality, and that which is unreal has become real to you. So, nobody wants to be devoid of reality. Everybody wants to be real, but what they have taken to be real is unreal! And so the ego which is just a mass, a

5. U S 78 - 7 concoction of various impression s that have been gained, has become so real to us that we cling to them. And do you know that every experience man has gained has always been pleasurable? Even the severest pain has pleasure in it. Did you know that? Here's a new proposition. Write it to all the psychiatrists in America. They need to learn this. That behind every pain there is pleasure, and behind every pleasure there is pain, always. A woman goes through hell giving birth to a child. The pain to her is so unbearable; and yet after the baby is born, the pleasure that is brought with the creation of this lovely life pulsating there in the arms, what great pleasure! How does it not nullify the pain! And that pleasurable impression outweighs the pain that was felt. That is why in a y ear or two or three or four years later, she would not say no to having another baby. What does she remember, what impression has been left strongly? Not of pain, but the pleasure of having the child. If the impression of the pain was more stronger than the pleasure attained, then a woman will never have another child again. Likewise, in every circumstance. Even if a person is ill in bed for a few days, when you get better, do you know how beautiful you feel? You feel beautiful because that beauty, tha t nice feeling has now been accentuated because of the pain you went through. So there, too, the impression of the pleasure is stronger. In every experience man has there is always an over balance of pleasure, there is always that little bit extra on th e credit side of pleasure, and that is why you stick to your ego. That is why you do not want to lose the ego. But it is like a fish that swims in the river and he's thirs ty or you standing at the riverside and dying of thirst, thinking of these little pleasures when there's bliss there for you to attain, to have, which is your own nature. What a great sacrifice! Actually, it is foolish sticking to these little pleasur es and forgetting or ignoring the great bliss that is there. Because all pleasures and all pains are temporary, and they are temporary because they are of the mind and the mind is temporary. That which is temporary could never produce anything which is permanent. While bliss, that is permanency, and once one tastes of bliss, once one h as the taste of permanency, then who wants to be impermanent! Then only does man realize that, "Ah, I've been chasing rainbows." Then only does man realize that that which I took to be real is, in reality, unreal. Then reality is known, not by the mind, but reality is known by itself. Good. You feel it. To feel Divinity is an experience and not an analysis. But man has the gift within him that at a certain momen t he becomes so centered that mind, body and spirit is in such wonderful alignment, even momentarily, then he feels this yearning, he feels drawn, he feels this bliss. He feels it. And then, after feeling that, he will start yearning more and m ore and more for it. Now that kind of yearning is justified, yet the yearning stems from the mind. But it is although it stems from the mind, it has a deeper quality to it, because that yearning does not analyze. Although it is within the framework of the mind, it is beyond analysis. Man loves a woman. He is away from her, and he yearns for her. He is not analyzing why he is

6. U S 78 - 7 yearning for her, he just yearns he wants to be with her, he wants that togetherness with her. So that yearning is an experience in itself, although it emanates through the mind. That experience is self existing, self su bsisting. So, when we make post mortems on our experiences, we lose a lot of value of the experience. This is necessary in the beginning stages. It is necessary to analyze in the beginning stages when one has genuine experiences. Good. But let the anal ysis be such that it leads to greater yearning. Let the analysis be such that, "Let me have that experience for the experience itself!" Then the ego starts fading away. Then the ego has no reason, rhyme or reason, to start interfering. And when the ego stops interfering, then you are really you. Then you have [learned, known?] in spite of what the outer object has been. And that is how the external guru awakens in you the internal guru. As I always say, the housewife goes to the supermarket, makes up a list of the things she wants to buy, and, after having purchased, she throws the list away. It is not necessary. I want you all to discard me. If not in this lifetime, next life time, another 200 lifetimes. But you must! You must all reach the stage w here a guru is not necessary anymore. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, you can think back, "Ah, he was a good old chap, you know." That's fine. Yes. Good, so, I don't know how the educational system works in America, but in South Africa you have Standard 1 the c hild starts off, kindergarten Standard 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 up to 10, which is matric, and then from matric he goes to university. Right. Now, he would have his teachers in all these various standards before he goes to university. Now, he does not need th ose primary or secondary school teachers anymore when he goes to university, but he remembers them. We all remember our teachers, don't we, when we were in Standard 2 or 3 or 4, we remember Miss So and so and Mr. So and so, you know, that was our math tea cher or geography teacher or whatever. We remember them. Although they are not needed now. But we remember them. Now that is what should happen, that the stage must be reached that you have discarded those teachers up to Standard 10. Discarded, but not forgotten. You see. And then there develops a new set of values when the internal guru is awakened, when man starts knowing himself, his real self, and then the external guru too becomes unreal. How does the external guru become unreal? How does the ext ernal guru become non existent? Because he has merged with the internal guru. And in the mergence there is no externality. And then there's a step further there's no internal ity either. There's nothing external and nothing internal. It just is. Whe re is the outside and where is the inside? It depends where you are standing. Looking through this window, those trees might seem outside to you. Those trees are outside to you looking through this window; but, if you stand at the tree, this would be in side. Or this would be outside of the tree. It depends where you stand. And this spiritual life, being totally emerged, or merged within one's real self, there is nothing outside, there is nothing inside; it just all is. All is. There are no squares, no triangles, no rectangles, and no circles.

7. U S 78 - 7 What a beautiful feeling! That is bliss! How to describe it, there are no words. We can only talk about it. But we've got t o experience it! So when we have these glimpses of being drawn, of being drawn by infin ite force which the teacher represents, we shall not resist it. We shall not resist, but be drawn to that force, because you are not drawn outside yourself, you are, in reality, drawn within yourself. Where does the real teacher exist? Where does the rea l teacher exist? The real teacher exists within you. The one sitting in the chair opposite you is only a projection, is only a projection. And his body, mind, the bag of bones and skin and flesh is just as unreal as yours. So the real teacher is existin g within you all the time, and the external object is there in the form of the teacher to make you realize that "I, in my own right, am a guru. I, in my own right, am self subsisting. I, in my own right, is self existing." The true teacher teaches you i ndependence and never dependence. Yes, in the beginning stages, for the novice a bit of dependency is needed when that little schoolmarm will guide the infant in the ABC's. That is needed. So the child is dependent to a certain extent on the teacher for the guidance. But after the child has learned how to read, it will read on its own. Then the teacher does not need to stand behind his back and watch him read. No. Then he will read everything that he wants to read, according to his understanding, right from James Hadley Chase to Socrates and Plato. You see, you see. So, the real teaching is to teach a person to become independent. Now, do not take this literally. Because only those that are strong enough to be independent be so. But, those of us that are not strong enough to be independent, let us be dependent. Why not. What's wrong with that. We have been dependent all our lives through. Weren't you dependent upon your mother to change your nappie for you? Huh? Weren't you dependent upon your mother to give you your food? Weren't you dependent upon your father to earn the bread and beans to feed you or to send you to school? Have you not been dependent upon your teachers? Are you not dependent upon your boss to earn a salary? So why no t be dependent upon a guru who teaches you the path to independence? Huh? Doesn't make sense. That is the teaching, that is the way. That is the way how to live the life. And that is the truth. And the truth can neve r, never be changed. But, coming ba ck to the question, when that arises, that overwhelming feeling arises, do not stop it. Flow with it, because you can never lose your Self. And if you can lose your ego, that is the greatest blessing you could ever have to be able to lose your ego. Becau se you, regarding yourself as the ego, is nothing else but false identification. The real identification should be with your real self, your inner self, your permanent self. The immortal soul the scripture s talk of all the time, over and over and over ag ain, that is the real self, not these puny little beings that walk this earth and fight and squabble over nothing. Absolutely nothing, really. They do, they do. Yes.

8. U S 78 - 7 So, to find this independence, be dependent. You can never be a master unless you have learned how to be a slave. That's a very old saying. I think it was an old Egyptian saying. You can never learn to be a master unless you have learned to be a slave. If a young man comes to me and says, "I have $10,000 or $100,000 to start a business" let us assume it is a clothing business. Hm? And he comes to me and says, "I've got $100,000 and I want to start a clothing shop." You know what I tell him? I say, "Sorry, you don't start the shop." Right. "Put that $100,000 away in the bank. Fixed deposit so you can't draw from it, and go and work in a shop that sells clothing for three years," or whatever the case might be, depending upon the capacity and the a bility of the young man. "Go and gain the experience. Become a servant of the boss and learn. And, when you have learned enough, then go and open your shop. Otherwise not. And, if you do without having the necessary experience, you'll just have to yo u'll land up in the bankruptcy courts." Yes. So, you need the dependence of the experience to become independent of all kinds of dependency. Now, how, what is the primary requisite in this dependency? Hm? Surrender. Yes, that is the primary requisite. It is a passing phase; it is not something that is held onto permanently. It is something temporary. It is something temporary to be used so that we could rise from dependency to independency. And all forms of dependency has as its ingredient that which is called surrender. Now, what do you surrender? What do you surrender, that is the question. You have movements in the world that demand all kinds of surrenders. Hm? Hm? Our movement does not. Our movement requires one thing only: surrender of the heart to that which is truth. Other movements might require you to surrender all your estates and your fortunes and, and I don't know what all. Cut off your hair and put on orange robes and all kinds of things like that. And they say, "Oh, well, this is a mark of surrender." We don't want marks that you find in Germany. Here we find dollars. Ahh, the American people are supposed to be such brilliant people, such brilliant people. Humph! No wonder all these movements flourish here so much and they hav e become multi millionaire movements. And Americans are such brilliant people, hm? What our organization demands is surrender of the heart, surrender of the heart in love and devotion. Not necessarily to the guru, not necessarily to the teacher, but to the teaching! Is that clear! Hm, yes sir! [Laughter] Yes. Not to the teacher. To the teacher, okay, if you wish to. That's your choice; it is not a demand. It is not a demand and neither a request, and neither a suggestion. That depends upon your heart. So the best you could do is surrender to the teaching. If you find any one bit of truth in the teaching, surrender your hear t to it, for that will lead you to greater and greater truths. For, in reality, all truth is one. If you know a bit of tr uth, you are on the way of knowing the totality of truth, for the totality of truth is contained in that bit of truth. You see.

1. U S 78 - 7 HOW CAN WE GO BEYOND OUR LIMITATION? QUESTION: Wow, I'm given an opportunity which I'm very thankful for to ask you my first question in public. GURURAJ: Very good. QUESTION: Although when it came out last night, I realized it's a question you get asked a lot. GURURAJ: I'm sure you've got your question written down in 20 lines. QUESTION: Just about. GURURAJ: Just about. QUESTION: If I counted them, I'm sure it would come to 20. GURURAJ: [Chuckles] QUESTION: Gururaj, sometimes when I'm with you or around you, and even when I'm not near you physically, I get a very strong longing to melt into you. It is like a pressure pulling me into you, and it draws me toward a feeling of blissfu l expansiveness. Yet, I'm afraid to surrender to it, in spite of the longing. It aches because t here is such strength and depth to the longing, but I can't quite let go. It sometimes happens, but only fleetingly, leaving me with a taste and a memory of what it is like to feel no separation. My mind explains this with the feeling that if I do let go completely, I won't be able to come back and find myself again within the boundaries and limitations through which I currently know myself. I pretend that I need to develop a stronger sense of myself and my work within time and space before I can safely surrender that part of myself to our blissful infinity. This situation seems a typical example of the small self or the mind being in control. Can you help me to understand and be patient with these fears and resistances to what is my natural birthright, to loving completely?

9. U S 78 - 7 So, when the question talked about surrender, surrender the ego. And here what I mean is surrender preconceived ideas. Have a n open mind to accept what seems truthful to you for the moment. At least that is a start. Surrender to that teaching by having an open mind. An open mind is always a non conditioned mind. An open mind is always an unbiased mind. Have no bias. Listen to the truth. And when this course ends tomorrow, when this course ends tomorrow and all of you go home after having listened to all these various satsangs, if there are just one or two words if you could remember just one or two words, perhaps just a phrase you have caught on here or there, and if you could just remember that, think about it, mull about it, contemplate it. And let it become part and parcel of you. [END SIDE ONE] Then my trip to this country which is 20,000 miles 10,000 miles eit her way is worthwhile. Is worthwhile. The teacher comes to teach. I never preach; I teach. And the major part of the teaching is to teach you how to learn. I can only teach you how to learn. And if here, there, some word has stuck in the mind, let it sink a bit lower to the heart. Use it as a wedge. A can opener. Open it up and enjoy the contents of this lovely can that's there filled with all the glor y and all the sweetness the entire universe contained in this little can. Okay. Where are you John? [Laughter] Namaste. Good. JOHN: I'd like you to know [inaudible] I counted up the question and it comes to exactly 20 lines long. GURURAJ: Oh [Laughter], that's beautiful, beautiful, yes, yes. I do not need to know only the length of the que stion, I know the contents of your heart, hm? Beautiful, beautiful heart. Beautiful, beautiful. I am happy that you are happy. Your happiness is my happiness, always. Yes. **** END ****

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