1. U S 80 - 36 THOUGHTS AND EXPERIENCES IN MEDITATION GURURAJ: Good. What shall we talk about tonight? VOICE: Catherine, I wanted you to read it. But I didn't give it to you, so you .... Stand up. CATHERINE: Guruji, what is the experience in m editation when one is conscious but has no thoughts or no mantra if this is not transcending? GURURAJ: Um hm, good. What is the experience in meditation when there is no thought and no mantra? It is a form of unconsciousness, where the mind can be led to the state where you are beyond all thought and all mantra. Now, luckily for people that this does not last for a long time. [LAUGHTER] It is just momentarily. Now, between each thought that we think there is a very definite gap, and science has prove d this. I said the other day that we think that thoughts are continuous, but thoughts are never continuous. They... a thought is like a story, it has a beginning, a middle, and an end. And when the end comes there is that slight gap. And when you can find that gap, then you have reached the center of yourself, and that does not involve unconsciousness. Now, reaching the center of oneself, mind, body, and spirit becomes integrated. This does not mean that you have landed in the realm of the spirit and transcended the mind and the body. It does not mean that, or else in the true gap one should feel an alertness that is devoid of thought or of mantra. But if the alertness is not there, then you have become unconscious or you have fallen temporarily asle ep. That's all. So now where does this alertness come from? This alertness where thoughts do not reside and where the mantra is not cognized. This alertness comes, as we have said, from the superconscious state of the mind. For mind has to be there for any experience, and especially the experience of that alert wakefulness. In order to know that you are awake and not asleep, a certain part of the mind has to function. Now, the nature of the superconscious mind is that which can cognize, but it does not function in the motion that the conscious or the subconscious mind is used to; for it is the nature of the subconscious and the conscious mind forever to be in motion. S o what happens is this, that in a good meditation, a deep meditation, you're alternating between the three levels of the mind. Now, when thoughts come into the mind it is not a bad thing at all. Many people have the erroneous belief that the mind must be come blank. Then you are dead. It is the nature of the mind to be in motion. It is the nature of the mind to have thoughts. Those thoughts could be creative thoughts, or those thoughts could be memories of past actions, or those thoughts could be projec tions into the future. The thoughts of memories are things, of course, as you

2. U S 80 - 36 would know, things that we have lived through or experienced, and they are rechurned in the mind. Always churning and churning and churning. Good. That is memory. A creative thought is really not creative. It is just but a synthesis of thoughts that have been thought before; not necessarily by yourself, but by others. And you take two, three, four different kinds of thoughts, put them together, you synthesize them, and then you feel that you have created a new thought. So that, too, in meditation is necessary. And then thought projection, or projected thoughts, are totally unreal, for the future is unknown. But this would happen because the mind is conditioned by past exper iences. And the totality of the past experiences, if it does not manifest itself as memory, then the past experiences could be converted into a creative thought, and if that is not done, then past experiences, mixing itself together, projects itself as a projected thought. So a projected thought of what is going to happen next week or next month or next year is because of the experiences one has had. And that is the origin of projected thought. Now, the basis of projected thought is mostly a sense of insec urity, for in every projected thought people mostly think, what is going to happen? Will I keep my job? Will my boyfriend or girlfriend still love me? Will I be in want? Will I be able to maintain the mortgage on my home? A sense of insecurity that ta kes you into a land, a land of fantasy, for none of it has reality. So, when we meditate these thoughts will come and go. For if only the superconscious state of mind is involved, then within a few seconds the subconscious and the conscious mind will ce ase to exist because the energy will be cut off. So thought is an essential part of meditation. There are many yogis that talk of having a total blank state of mind. And that could be an unconscious state or a hypnotic state or a sleep state, where the conscious mind does not become aware. It is the nature of meditation that the energies from the superconscious state of mind must permeate, must send forth those energies to the subconscious and the conscious mind; otherwise, meditation is of no use. But there is one thing that one has to remember, and it is this, and that most important thing to be remembered is when the thoughts come up in the mind it must be viewed objectively. In other words, the subjective self must regard that as a movie that you a re watching. That is how thoughts are to be treated. Now, the quality of the thought is not important. It could be a bad thought or a good thought. That is not important at all . What is important is that the conscious mind is being pervaded, permeated, by the energies from the superconscious level. That is important. For if the conscious mind is without thought, then the conscious mind can die. You will have brain damage. For with that, for with that energy that flows through the superconscious level , there are various factors that are involved in that energy oxygen for one. And if the brain is deprived of that energy, it will be damaged.

3. U S 80 - 36 So in meditation when thoughts come up, we do not discard the thoughts. We do not fight against the thoughts. We allow them to come, only we become a witness to them. And by becoming a witness to them, the thoughts do not create any impressions or samskaras in the mind whatsoever. So you do not add onto samskaras which will have its karmic interpretation. And a t the same time, with the energies flowing through the mind from the superconscious state, you are dissolving with the help of gurushakti you are dissolving all samskaras. So now as you sit to meditate, the thoughts come and they go and come and go, and you watch them. Now, by watching them it does not mean that the thoughts will disappear, they will still come and go. But the impact of the thought is totall y lost. As I said, no impressions are created. No further grooves are created in the mind. So that is how we get rid of all the patternings in the mind. And when we get rid of the old patternings of the mind, we start developing an open mind. And that is why these satsangs are so necessary. Because when one has an open mind, you will be able to understand better what a teacher is telling you. There are no blocks there, the mind is open. And with that openness, understanding develops. Now, what happens to this understanding? It goes through a process of analysis and rationalizations at the co nscious level. The conscious mind says, this is right, that is right, that is right; or I agree with this, or I don't agree with this . Good. From there it goes deeper to the various layers of the subconscious. And the subconscious mind has various layers . Modern psychology and psychiatry has just touched the surface layer closest to the conscious mind, but there are various layers. And that understanding, if it is real understanding, starts penetrating deeper and deeper into the subconscious mind. And f urther still, it goes to the fringe of the superconscious level where the understanding not penetrating the superconscious level, for that is beyond it all but gains the light, gains the light from the superconscious level, which lightens up the understa nding. And this kind of lighting up of the understanding is called realization. Then you realize the value of the thought. This is the process. So, the superconscious state of mind, being nearest and closest to the spirit, and being transparent in... and shining forth and filled with the light of the spirit, has no place for your thoughts to register; but it energizes the thought, be it good or bad. Now, here it is not the quality or quantity of thought that's important, but the process of thought is imp ortant. Understanding is understanding. It might be a rational understanding, or it might be a total irrational understanding. That is not important. The process of the mind is of value, and that is the only important thing. For very slowly you will fin d that you will forget the understanding, where rationalization or intellectualization is not required for understanding anymore. Then understanding proceeds, with the light of the superconscious level, it proceeds to knowingness. And the sense of knowing ness requires no analysis. Do you see the process, how beautiful it works? There is a great scope for modern psychology to go into this.

4. U S 80 - 36 So when a person is meditating and we feel that there is no thought and no mantra [and] that we have transcended, we have not transcended the mind. In true meditation we have not transcended the mind, but we have reached the superconscious level where the thought or the mantra is overshadowed by the... or lit up, the shadows of the thought or mantra is lit up by the lig ht of the highest level of our minds. And therefore we feel that there is no thought and no mantra. Many teachers teach of transcending the mind, which is a total impossibility; you reach the subtlest level of the mind, and man is only capable of experien cing that. Otherwise you have fallen asleep, where although the subconscious and the superconscious is functioning, the conscious mind has gone to sleep and does not recognize or bring to cognition that which is happening inside. Now, it is enough at thi s stage of man's evolution to bring that superconscious level to the fore, so that it could clean away the shadows that are cast in the subconscious. And from there further on to the conscious mind. People talk of positive thinking. That is good. You r eplace a wrong thought with a right thought. So what are you doing? You are not moving away from conditioning. You are still conditioning your mind. You are still creating patterns, while that area of the superconscious state is patternless. So you cr eate, you substitute one pattern for another pattern. That's all that you are doing. You're still in the realm of the mind. You have still not tasted... perhaps in some meditations, momentarily the mind goes deeper to that superconscious state. But in every meditation, even if you have no experience whatsoever, you just sit and some people have told me that they sit, "I sit for meditation," they say, "and nothing seems to happen. Nothing happens. I sit for my twenty minutes or half an hour and nothi ng happens." I say, "Something has happened. There is not a single meditation where something does not happen, because the mind itself is a happening." And you're using the force of your own vibration to penetrate and interpenetrate all those patternin gs. You are creating a tension in those vibrations. And creating that tension, the net result of the tension would culminate in relaxation. You go t to activate to bring about silence. So, so, don't aim for thoughtlessness or no thought. You can aim for no mind, which is a different thing altogether. But not the state where there is no thought at all, for the very thought, or the very action of thought, is the reverse side of t he coin, the observe side of inaction. So action and inaction are two sides o f the same coin. Action is that where thought is. And inaction is when the very thought goes to a subtler state and finds some stillness there, giving the entire brain mechanism a kind of rest. So the whole theory of transcendence is wrong. If by tran scendence we mean that we are reaching the superconscious state of the mind, good. But do not believe that you are going beyond the mind, because if you go beyond the mind there is only one place for you is the lunatic asylum. So the mind, for the sake of its own individuality has to preserve itself at

5. U S 80 - 36 some level. Most people keep the mind alive only with the conscious level. But, of course, the ideal would be to be alive at all three levels: conscious, subconscious and superconscious. That is the sta te of mind to be attained, where just by sheer will, just by thought force, you are in touch with the superconscious level. And one reaches the stage where you don't need to sit down and close your eyes. The reason for closing the eyes is so that the mind could be more concentrated and there are not outside distractions. That is why you close your eyes; otherwise, you can be doing work, anything that you are busy in, and that itself could be a meditation. So what happens here is that you are in touch wit h yourself. You are in touch with the superconscious state, which, in other words, would also mean you are in touch with your higher self. Now, that is a common expression. It has great meaning. Your lower self is where all the turbulence occurs, the co nscious level of the mind; and your higher self is that area of light where there is no problem at all. But what we do with the conscious mind is this: the conscious mind has a habit of going forward, and the light is behind. So when the light is behind you, then the shadow is in front of you. So the conscious mind and the subconscious is forever creating shadows ahead of you. So you are following your shadow, because the light is left behind. So where are you proceeding to in the shadow? You are proce eding to darkness. And yet that beautiful light of the higher self is existent. Now, through meditation and spiritual practices we make a right about turn without repatterning the mind. You make a right about turn and you walk towards the light. Now, yo u are facing the light, so the shadow is behind you. In the one case it was in front of you, now it is behind you. And when it is behind you, then all the dark corners of life, all the anxieties and insecurities and problems are behind you, for you are n ow facing the light, enjoying the light. And that is what meditation does. Now, this is not an overnight process like instant pudding or instant coffee. It takes time. It takes time. It depends on how much of a burden, a karmic burden, you have brought with you. So it takes times to wash away. It takes time to cleanse. Therefore, regularity in meditation cleanses quicker. The choice is yours, that's all. So there are a few things that happen when there is no thought and no mantra. Either you have fa llen asleep, or either you have taken the conscious and the subconscious mind and merged it into the superconscious level of the mind. Those two things can happen, or the third one, of course, that you are just... you have become unconscious, self hypnoti zed. Now, when these thoughts come and go, we said we observe them. We look at them, for thoughts too, could be regarded as internal distractions. Now, there is nothing wrong with distractions. Accept the distractions. And by accepting the distractio ns, they cease to be distractions. You are thinking, a mathematical problem crops up in the mind, and suddenly you are thinking, "What is for dinner tonight?" So that thought is distracted. It's a distraction from the process of think ing of the mathemat ical problem, and here the thought of dinner comes up. Now, what's wrong with dinner? What's wrong

6. U S 80 - 36 with that distraction? Nothing at all, for you are going to have dinner. So what does this mean? That the mind has a habit of wandering, until it becomes stabilized. So when it wanders, let it wander. Don't curb or control, for that causes repressions. The greatest mistake Norman Vincent Peale has made and I would challenge him on any platform it is this: that if you have a negative thought, then replace it with a positive thought. Think positively. If the thought is black, then immediately you substitute it with white. Now, that is totally impossible. That is impossible. You just cannot shift your thought away just like that. Perhaps a very highly t rained mind, a very highly disciplined mind might be able to do it, and that would constitute just a very small fraction of the world's population. There has to be something in between. It's a good idea to substitute a good thought for a bad thought. It' s a good idea to get rid of the bad thought by a good thought. But there has to be a process in between. And that process has to be based on the superconscious level. So a negative thought of hate comes into the mind. You observe the thought of hatred. And by observing it, the mind will start analyzing why the hateful thought is there. It will find many reasons, many justifications for the hateful thought to be the re. But as you watch that thought you would find it loosing its force, you would find it loosing its power. And as the force of the hateful thought starts diminishing, you do a mental practice, such as doing our chant which heightens the vibrations, or doing a gurushakti practice. One of those. And when that is done, all the power of the h ateful thought dissipates itself, and then you introduce the positive thought. Then you introduce the thought of love, instead of the hate. But there has to be that something in between, for if the thought of hate is so powerful, how powerful must your t hought of love not be to overcome that. So it requires, the hateful thought requires, to be dissipated. Its energy has to be taken away by one of the spiritual practices. And then the mind could be led so easily, without effort, without effort into thoug hts of love. That is the process. And that middle part is what Norman Vincent Peale has forgotten about, or he was not aware of it. Good. Now, man can live with his thoughts in two ways. He can live with his thoughts as a soldier. He can live with his thoughts as a soldier, or he can live with his thoughts as a king. Now, it is the job of the soldier to fight so that happens to man . Tho ughts are always fighting with each other. If we do not practice observing thoughts objectively, then those thoughts will always fight each other. And any fight brings about conflict. So here a third element is introduced: to do this or not to do this. So the "yes" and the "no" fights each other and creates a conflict. And that very conflict is the one thing that causes samskaras, that drives the seed down deeper and deeper into the subconscious, depending which is more powerful. Depending which is mo re powerful. Now, to get rid of this conflict we can be a king, not a soldier whose nature is to fight. For thoughts are like soldiers, t hey keep on fighting, warring with each other, being torn between ideas and ideals and the practicalities of life. Bu t the king, he commands. And that is how life is to be lived. And that is how the mind is to be, not controlled, but adjusted. A good

7. U S 80 - 36 king does not control his soldiers. A good general does not control his soldiers, but he maneuvers his soldiers and t houghts are the soldiers. He maneuvers them in such a way that no conflict between themselves would occur, and that we can do. We are kings of the mind. We rule the mind and not control the mind. You see. There again we come back to square one, where i f thoughts are viewed objectively... [END SIDE ONE] [REWIND TO BEGINNING OF TAPE TO BEGIN SIDE TWO] GURURAJ: Then no control is necessary. Give the mind freedom, do not give the mind bondage by forced control. Let it be free, let it think whatever it wants to think, for it is the nature of the mind to think. But be an observer, be a witness. And what do you witness with? You witness with the superconscious level of the mind, which in turn is empowered by the light of the spirit. And that is what i s meant by "thy kingdom come." It means, let thy light shine through. The light that is there in Heaven must shine on this earth just as equally well and just as powerfully well. So man can never become a god, but he can become a god man, a mixture of th e two. VOICE: Excuse me [inaudible]. GURURAJ: Yes, man has the ability to become a god man, where all the elements are there. And as Shakespeare would say, has said in Julius Caesar, that all the elements were so mixed in him that the world could sta nd up and say he was a man. You see. So in achieving all these varied experiences of mind and body, you become a fuller and fuller man. Nothing is to be discarded. Nothing is to be discarded, for everything has its value. Everything is an experience . And all experiences, high or low, have their own particular value, so that man could know the fullest extent of his mind. And when the elements of the superconscious level starts permeating all his experiences, then truly could he be a god man; for the light of Divinity shines through every action. Now, when the light of Divinity shines through the various layers of the mind into physical action, then even whatever physical action is performed becomes non binding. It frees one from bondage. You are no t bound, because there is no impression left. You act for the sake of action. You just flow with the moment. And you flow with the moment, you cease to become a train that just runs on the tracks that are laid down. You cease doing that, but you become like the river where the water flows in the direction of the ocean but in total freedom. The water moves this way and that way, dances around, it bubbles, it sings, it enjoys; and yet moving to the ocean in freedom not in bondage of a train which just ha s to

8. U S 80 - 36 move on the tracks. So when the river moves in total freedom in its own way, sometimes gushing, sometimes slow, and merging within the currents, merging with the currents, within itself, it would move faster or slower. What a beautiful melody, becau se the water has surrendered itself to itself to its real self, the current inherent in the water. That is freedom. And yet you are moving to the ocean. You see. That is the beauty of life. That is the beauty of life, where you move with the current t hat is within you. You are not moving against the current. Yet the aim has to be there to reach the higher self. And then if that thought is dominant in the mind, if that thought is forev er there, present as a silent witness, then let the other children play, let the other thoughts play. Some of them are good, some of them are naughty, but they're still children, they play. And when you can watch them playing, it becomes non binding; for it is a play and you recognize the play. For you are with the cu rrent of life and not with the play of life. There is a very big difference to be with the current of life and not with the play of life; and yet you accept the play. Yo u accept the play and enjoy the play. What's wrong with it? You are playing for th e sake of playing. That idea is developed then. That understanding dawns: not to win or to lose, but just to play. Not to gain and not to lose. For what is there to gain or to lose when it is but just a play? A play is transient, it has no reality of it s own. So if it has no reality, and if it is transient and illusory, then what is the point of winning or losing? Why let winning affect you and become elated, or why become deflated by losing? And that can be achieved by living with the current of life . And that is what the Gita says, too: be not deflated by adversity or inflated by opportunity or good things that are happening. That is how equilibrium is maintained. That is how we reach a state of equilibrium, because we are functioning with the curr ent of life and not the play of life. You are standing apart: in the world, but not of the world. That is the secret. That is the key to joy, where you have now gone beyond, or have become the observer of all the ups and downs. For who hasn't got ups an d downs? Even the greatest yogi, the greatest guru, the greatest master and we have known the lives of all these masters: Krishna, Rama, Buddha, Christ, Mahavir, all of them all ups and downs, so many oppositions. But they were with the current of life; so much so that you become the current, you are not with the current any more then, you become the current. And when you cognize the current, you merge into the current. And that is the peace that passeth all the understanding which belongs to the realm of the play. You understand the play, you analyze the play, but behind the play look at the various currents: the producer, the director, the casting manager, casting director, yes, the lighting expert, the set decorator. So many currents, so many thing s to bring the play into being. Do you see, huh? Now, the current. How to bring it into our lives. You know the answer. How to be with the current, you know the answer. The answer is inherent within you. And what does a guru do, he only awakens. He does not create the answer for you, because you are the answer already. You are the current already. He just awakens it. A spark is lit: first, by some mental understanding, and then by a spiritual force that shakes you awake. Yes. A person is sleepin g and you want to

9. U S 80 - 36 wake up the person, and you say, "Robin, Robin, wake up. Robin." Robin is still fast asleep. And then you go to Robin and shake him gently. "Come on, Robin, time to wake up." Yes. So those to whom in that state of sleep the sound of the master does not register, then the master has to go and gently shake the person awake. And still if the person does not wake up, I would kick his backside. [LAUGHTER] There are many ways that gurus work. Many ways. I know from my experience of m y guru, I could not understand him. No, I could not understand him at all. And if anyone pretends to understand his guru, or a guru, then that person is just bluffing himself, that's all. For being a channel of Divine forces, who can understand them, un less you become the force itself. Who knows the sweetness of honey without tasting it, not analyzing it, tasting it. Then only you know the sweetness. How do you know the top of a twenty story building if you are not standing on a twenty story building yourself to see the top of that building. We stand down here, you get a lop sided view. And if the building is too tall, like the Twi n Towers in New York, you get dizzy looking up. So, so, it is very difficult to understand gurus. They are mad, really. Yes. They're mad. Out of their heads. Yes, they're mad Divine madness. Divine madness. So merged away in that superconscious state that the mind, the lower self that is there, does not matter at all. So merged away. That is why Ramakrishna or Raman a Maharshi, suffering so much with cancer and things... and his chelas used to say, "Look, you do this for this one, and you do that for that one, and you do that for that one, why don't you do something for yourself and cure your cancer?" Can't do it. Impossible for the real guru to do that; because as soon as he thinks of himself, he is inflating his ego. The little i starts up acting. The little i starts up acting, and that the guru that's in touch with his higher self do es not want to do. And that is why they mocked Jesus when he was on the cross: that if you are the son of God, son of man, then get thee down from the cross. Huh uh, he won't. And yet he could go around curing people that are blind and lame and... all those things. So many so cal led miracles like raising from the dead. And yet he could not free himself from being nailed on the cross. He could have done a disappearing trick there and then. Do you see. But they don't think of themselves, they think of others all the time, all the time. They want to lead others to that area of the superconscious state where there's no thought and no mantra, that area where there is only light. And that is their only concern: that how soon, how quick, what method can I devise for a particular perso n for him to see the light, for him to be with the current of himself; how to produce this awakening, what to do? And true gurus go through all that; therefore, they don't last very long. They burn themselves out, because the body is not strong enough. A ll the greatest masters normally die at a very young age, for night after night, day after day, even while they are lying down, their minds are going to this one and that one and that one and that one. A letter comes with some sadness in it, some sufferin g of someone, and the heart gets

10. U S 80 - 36 broken of the true teacher; that, why must my beloved suffer? For the suffering of the beloved is the guru's suffering, for there is that oneness that is created, that is there, that is formed. For when the man reaches th at superconscious state, then he has reached the field where that state is not an individualized state anymore. It is a universal state. And all the se are but bubbles on that universal state of life. So when one current is disturbed at one end, when you disturb the water at this side of the ocean, then automatically the currents would flow and touch the other side of the ocean. You see. That is why they are disturbed. And those are the sufferings of Jesus. Those are the sufferings that brings forth t he compassion of a Buddha. Do you see. You see. So it is forever a striving to bring people to the superconscious level, to the higher level of that person's self. See. So, therefore, the stage where there is no thought or no mantra if it is reaching th e superconscious level, or the higher self of man, one could say you have transcended the lower self. But you cannot say you have transcended the totality of mind, for it is impossible to transcend the mind in totality. If the Manifestor is infinite, then its manifestation in the form of mind is infinite, too. You can be in total perception, total cognition, of the light of the Manifestor through His manifestation. A nd when that thin layer of manifestation is done away with, then nothing remains but the Manifestor, and this whole play has just become a dream. Just a dream. Then it becomes, all relativity becomes just an illusion through which we have passed. And that's how it works. That's how it progresses. That is the process of life. Are we about t o end? It's past nine. We are talking about gurus just now; this one guru went to jail twenty times. And what he used to do is this, when he used to see a policeman nearby he used to pinch a sweet from the sweetmeat shop so that he could be observed and taken to jail. Sometimes... and he used to make sure that there is a policeman around. He used to pick up a stone and throw it in a little window. And off he goes, taken to jail. Little things like this, which d oes not really cause much harm, but which is an offense. Good. So one day his very close chelas told him, he says, "Guruji, why do you keep on doing this? We can give you all the...[HE LAUGHS] We can give you all the comforts you want. You want food, you want clothes, you want this, you want that. You want shelter, we provide for you. Why do you want to go in that cold?" I don't know what it is like, but nevertheless, I believe it's not too pleasant. "Why do you want to go ther e?" So this guru told his chelas, he says, "Here, outside the jail, you can always learn a lot. You can find other teachers, perhaps, or whatever. But those inside there, they need me more, for who is going to teach them? So that is why I go to jail, to teach them there." Do you see. Gurus are funny people. [LA UGHTER] Terrible. [HE LAUGHS] Yah. **** END ****