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1. U S 82 - 45 DES PLAINS #2: RAPID FIRE GURURAJ: And that is the area where you find that oneness. Where you have transcended all good and bad and see only divine. VOICE: Let's say we all get to the point where everybody acknowledges their divinity. Everybody [????????] realize, and there's that total unity. Then what? Is that not where we all started in the first place. And why did we come into this to begin with, to start it all over again? GURURAJ: Yes. This universe works in cycles all the time. Everything gets sucked into the blac k hole to burst out again into another universe. So there the cycle begins. There's a Sanskrit word for this when that equilibrium comes about between the gunas the three gunas, which is a different subject altogether where an equilibrium comes about. But within that equilibrium there are still certain currents. And those very currents creates another Big Bang, and the whole cycle starts all over again. So this universe when we say it is eternal, we mean that it is eternal in the sense of its contin uity as cycles upon cycles upon cycles all the time. VOICE: So we are basically always working to be divine and we're going to...once we get there we're going to end up coming back wanting to be divine all over again. GURURAJ: Not necessarily. Because then you can go beyond the universal cycle and merge into the Absolute. VOICE: So when that happens, when everybody finally gets to that, then what? GURURAJ: When does everybody finally get to that? Never. Never. VOICE: Why not? [INAUDIBLE] G URURAJ: Because there are lower forms of being evolving to a higher state. And when they reach that higher state and passes the mark of the highest relativity into the Absolute, there'll still be so more following behind that is created b y

2. U S 82 - 45 another cycle. Or otherwise the cycle will not be kept up. See, that's why. And everybody can never get enlightened at the same time. The whole idea of an age of enlightenment is a fallacy. You could never have an age of enlightenment. There never has been. But a person can become enlightened individually. You know, there was this lecturer he was talking, he was posing a question to the audience. And he said, "If I put a pail of beer on the platform and a pail of water, and I bring a donkey onto the stage, what wo uld the donkey drink?" So the person, some person answered, "The water." So he asked why. He says, "Because he's an ass." [LAUGHTER] I've got a helluva lot of jokes here. [LAUGHTER] You know, this husband and wife were having a fight, a little quarrel . So the wife says to the husband, "Stop talking like an idiot." So he replies, "Well, I've got to speak so that you could understand me." [LAUGHTER] Next question. [HE LAUGHS] VOICE: To, sort of, paraphrase some of what you said, and put it into, so rt of, an everyday, useful perspective. From what I hear you...from what I understand what you're saying is, in essence, to suspend judgment. And that with the continual suspension of judgment to, sort of, decide and move and flow. Just be intuitive in a moment by moment, here and now existence with us. GURURAJ: Um hm. VOICE: Okay. GURURAJ: That is true. That is very true. Yes, you take the two words nowhere and you just shift the W to the left and it becomes now here. Do you see. Isn't this W wonderful? [LAUGHTER] Yes. Just flow. Just be yourself. Try and be no one else. S omeone came to me and said, "I would like to write poetry like Shakespeare." So this man, we will call him John, I says, "No, if you write poetry like Shakespeare, you would be a second class Shakespeare. Rather, be a first class John." VOICE: So are y ou saying, in a way, that we should be more or less desireless? GURURAJ: A human being can never be desireless. As long as the mind exists there will be desire. But desire can be defined in so many ways. Is the desire with attachment, or is the desi re with non attachment? For any desire devoid of

3. U S 82 - 45 craving would be non attached. I was telling someone, today as a matter of fact, that for me a dry piece of bread or a king's feast would seem the same. It would be the same to me, because there is no cra ving involved. The desire is there to eat, because the body needs it. But you are non attached. And where there is no craving, the desire does not affect you. For example, wanting to be one with Divinity is also a desire. So that is a good desire, beca use it is to find yourself at one ment. But to desire to accumulate, the desire for greed or lust, those would be going against the laws of nature and not with the laws of nature. So as long as the mind exists there will be desire, but desires too must b e of non attachment. You know, I was telling someone today, I was talking about spectacles. So I says, "Well, it took this young lady two glasses to make a spectacle of herself." Yeah? VOICE: Doesn't desiring to be one with Divinity automatically put yo u in a state of not realizing you are one with Divinity? [Because?] as long as you desire something it implies that you're not aware of it. GURURAJ: Yes. Um hm. The desire would only arise to become one with Divinity until Divinity is realized. That m eans you are still in the realms of duality that I and You are separate, and I desire to become one with You. So, it is only in the state of unity consciousness that all desire disappears. But until then not. Yeah. Because even the most highly evolved man will still have a slight trace of ego. Because without that he cannot exist as an embodied being. He will have desire to eat, to perform his biological functions, to go to the bathroom. So he still has that little trace of ego left in him unt il he discards this body. And until even the slightest trace of ego is there, some desire will be there. So, for an embodied being you could never be desireless. But you can become non attached to desire and an observer of desire, for you have risen above the law of opposites. VOICE: What's the purpose of the ego if it keeps us from becoming aware of our [Divinity?]? And yet the ego is a creation of Divinity. GURURAJ: The ego is a creation of Divinity. Let us answer that in an analogy form. For the ego too is divine. It is the sun that raises up water as water vapor and forms clouds, and yet the clouds which are formed by the very sun obscures the sun and we find darkness down here. So our spiritual practices disperses the clouds, and makes it come dow n as beautiful invigorating rain. And the sun is there still in its full glory. And that is what

4. U S 82 - 45 they call the play of Divinity. You see. VOICE: You've mentioned meditation and spiritual practices. What are other...if meditation is a spiritual prac tice, what are other spiritual practices? GURURAJ: Oh, many thousands. It'll take me hours to repeat them all to you. VOICE: Repeat a few of the good ones. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: There are many, many ways. And these are individual. VOICE: What concerns me is, on that, I have a problem with believing that meditation is the way to achieve oneness with myself. And I think back and I'm wondering have other people like yourself, people going back thousands of years, did they achieve the ir oneness with themselves and with Divinity by meditation, per se. It seems to me there are other ways. Not necessarily other spiritual practices. But I'm wondering if all this talk about meditation, and I've tried it and I beli eve in it, but why? I m ean, can I, or Joe or Jane or somebody achieve this without meditating? GURURAJ: Yes, you can. VOICE: Okay. GURURAJ: You can achieve it without meditating. VOICE: But you've concentrated on meditation. GURURAJ: But [INTERRUPTING] but your life h as to be lived in such a way that you can become a karma yogi be good, do good. And that itself is a meditation. Right. You can go through the yoga of analysis, jnana yoga, that will take you to a certain point which will lead you off into meditation. What does the word "meditation" mean? Meditation only means to dive deep within. That is what the word meditation means.

5. U S 82 - 45 VOICE: Okay. I so didn't understand what you were saying. All of this [????] we're talking about ultimately leads to some form of what we broadly, under the umbrella, call meditation. GURURAJ: Broadly, under the...yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Washing dishes could be meditation. VOICE: Okay, I just want to stay away from having to.... I don't like the idea of ever ybody having to come into some... GURURAJ: [FINISHING FOR HER] Church. You see, the word meditation has been so misunderstood. It has been so misunderstood, the word meditation. Because here in America many gurus have come, you know, and started off meditational organizations, you know, that has not helped many people. And therefore it has been abused, misused. I could give you a practice, if it was needed by you, you know, how to wash your pots and pans and make that into a meditation. VOICE: Can we find our own meditation? Our own [INAUDIBLE] individual [INAUDIBLE]? GURURAJ: Well, that would be...you can find your own, yes. But that would be by the method of trial and error. It's like having a shelf full of medicine bottles and trying one me dicine after the other. It could be very harmful. But if you have a physician that knows his job, he can tell you, "Look, take this particular bottle of medicine and that will help you." SAME VOICE: And that's what you are trying to do. GURURAJ: That's what he's try... SAME VOICE: That is to save their life from having to go and experiment?] [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: That's right. That's right. You see, and you need a teacher. You need a teacher. When a child goes to school he needs a teacher to be taught the A B C's and word formation. And after the child has learned to read, then it will read by itself. So, in the beginning stages a teacher is required.

6. U S 82 - 45 SAME VOICE: Okay. GURURAJ: Someone to guide. And everything in life is a t eacher. Everything in life is a teacher if we are aware enough to observe the teachings. I was saying at dinner last night that the sun gives light to the whole world, but a little lamp can give light to a little r oom. We can learn so much from our chil dren. Actually, they are better teachers to us than what we are to them. Don't your children teach you patience and tolerance and love? [ASSENTING SOUNDS IN BACKGROUND] Don't they teach you? They teach you how to be tolerant and patient and loving and forgiving and all that. You see. So even your child is your teacher. So everything in life teaches us something. Everything. Look at the organized system in which the bees work in making honey. Look at the organized system in which a line of ants are going without knocking into each other. But we can't drive our motorcars that way. You see, everything teaches. But when it comes to the spiritual path you have a spiritual teacher. If your faucet is leaking you will call a plumber and not a carpente r. SAME VOICE: Then how would you, for instance, know what I, for instance, would need as far as a spiritual practice. GURURAJ: Well, that is what I explained earlier. That I would go into meditation on you... SAME VOICE: I heard that. GURURAJ: Ye ah, you heard that. SAME VOICE: I have a little trouble with that. [LAUGHING] [I heard that?]. GURURAJ: Well, that is your problem. [MUCH LAUGHTER] SAME VOICE: That's right. GURURAJ: But remember one thing, that inherent in every problem the solution is contained. The solution is contained in every problem, or otherwise there would not be a problem. So, seek for yourself and you will find the solution. Seek and thou shall find.

7. U S 82 - 45 And I like people like you. I like people to doubt. Because doubt is the first step to inquiry. And the more you inquire, the more doubts might be created. And the more doubts that might be created, the more will you still inquire. SAME VOICE: I'm [INAUDIBLE] vicious circle. GURURAJ: It does not need to be a vicious circle. It could be a very straight line. But remember one thing, the proof of the pudding lies in the eating. So you are just mentally analyzing all this. Where does doubt c ome from: from mental analysis. Your left hemisphere of the brain is overworking. But when you start the proper type of meditation for you, you enliven the right hemisphere and the synapses occur. And they work in such coordination that intuitively you feel you reach the stage of knowingness where you know that this is right for me. Until then the mind will keep on doubting do you see which is healthy. Which is healthy. But it brings you into a lot of confusion, which is only troublesome to you. S AME VOICE: It gives me headaches. GURURAJ: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] Yes. Yeah. VOICE: Most of the Eastern religions believe in some form of reincarnation or evolvement of the soul through many lives as sacred. Most [INAUDIBLE] Christianity believe in one life, when all men, once they die, and then the judgment. How do you reconcile [GURURAJ BLOWS HIS NOSE AND PART IS INAUDIBLE] to be two opposites one can [????]? GURURAJ: There is only one way to reconcile that: that both are true. All the opposites, t oo, are true. It depends upon your belief pattern. Whatever you believe or whatever you are convinced of, that shall come to pass. Because this entire universe, your universe, is a creation of your mind. Let me tell you of the Moslem faith. They deny y ou that you must not have a drink. They are totally against adultery and things like that. But they promise you that after you die and if you have lived in this way, there'll be rivers of wine flow ing for you, and there'll be houris to serve you and look after you. And if you sincerely believe that, that is the world that you would be creating for yourself after you leave this body. So, in the afterlife what belief system or what patterning you are involved in that you will find. So above, so below. S o below, so above. But is that the truth? You see.

8. U S 82 - 45 VOICE: How did it come about in Christianity, their way of meditation is a little different than the Eastern type of meditation? GURURAJ: I don't think it is different at all. SAME VOICE: Well, they believe in discursive [?????]. GURURAJ: You know... SAME VOICE: In a discursive type of... GURURAJ: Discursive? SAME VOICE: Where you take certain points and you meditate on, like, for instance, the life of our Lord. And in the Eastern type you really try to let your thoughts [pass?] [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: No, that is not strictly true. It is impossible to empty the mind. But what you can do is observe the thoughts that are passing through your mind. And by being able to observe your thoughts, you separate the big I from the little I that is thinking. The ego self that is involved in thought can be observed by the big I. And because of the observation and the focus, the effect of those thoughts are not registered within you as impressions or as karmas. In the Christian type we have more of contemplation. Now, there is a difference between meditation and cont emplation. Contemplation is, true contemplation is taking a thought and taking that thought to its logical conclusion without a single break. Like pouring oil into a vessel into anothe r without a single break in it. Now, when one reaches the height of c ontemplation, then meditation can become very easy. Meditation... the observation of the contemplation is meditation. You see. SAME VOICE: It seems that you have a different definition of what's meditating in Christianity is contemplation in Eastern ph ilosophy... [INAUDIBLE]

9. U S 82 - 45 GURURAJ: It's not that. No, it's not. Different interpretation. Different interpretation. For it is only a concentrated m ind that can really contemplate. And when you can really contemplate, then meditation becomes second natu re to you. So there is no conflict. It's just an extension of one from the other. No conflict at all. And meditation is not only created i n the East. It has been in the West. It's something universal. To find the Kingdom of Heaven within is a universa l idea. VOICE: We're constantly striving for the Divinity, this oneness for everybody and everything. What happens...well, a couple of questions. I don't know how to say it, but is leaving this body or dying or what would you call that, is that the result of finally reaching this Divinity? Or, if it's not, what happens when we do leave this body, and we do die and leave behind this...what happens to us, the energy that we are, the force that we are? GURURAJ: You can believe in two things. You can believe that when you are dead, you're dead and that's that. And then another school of thought will say that these three score years and ten are too little to work out or resolve the experiences or impressions or karmas that we have, and that after deat h, after discarding this body, the soul continues. For the soul too is composed of mental qualities of impressions, of samskaras and after death one does not evolve, but one evaluates the entirety of one's existence from the primal atom. And in that eval uation one tries to find the right vehicles through which to be born. In other words, we choose our parents, our parents did not choose us. And finding the proper genetic combination we get born through those parents to enter the school of life again. Fo r life is nothing else but a school where we come to learn. VOICE: Which do you believe? GURURAJ: Hm? VOICE: Which do you believe? GURURAJ: Which do I believe? I believe in both. [AH'S] [HE LAUGHS] I am beyond belief. You know, if you tell me that the room over the way is warm, then I will believe it is warm. And then when I go nearer to the room and feel the heat waves, then I will have faith that the room is warm. But when I jump into that fire, I know the fire. So, it is knowingness . So when you reach the stage of knowingness of your real self, then all these reincarnations and deaths and rebirths, all that fall away. All that fall away.

10. U S 82 - 45 VOICE: And when you discard your body what happens? GURURAJ: Hm? VOICE: And when you discard your body what happens? GURURAJ: I don't know. I'm not going to tell you. I might come and meet you in the next life. [HE LAUGHS] VOICE: One thing that's always, that I always... Is there any [INAUDIBLE]. I've read a lot of interpretations of what happens after you die. And a friend of mind killed himself, and then I really started thinking about this. And I got... I started reading about suicide and various philosophies and beliefs on suicide. And it appears, fr om what I've read, that people who kill themselves are in a different situation after they die than people who don't kill themselves. Apparently, it has to do with taking your own life and [choose?], you know. I'm not very good at explaining myself. GUR URAJ: Yeah. I know exactly what you mean. A person that commits suicide, remember, is going through intense mental suffering. And in the subtle body that passes over, being subtle, the suffering in the physical body becomes so, so much more intensified . So, I do not recommend suicide to anyone. VOICE: So, what you're saying when...in the act of death it hurts more. [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: No, death is something very, very pleasant really. But not in a suicide. VOICE: That's what I mean. GURURAJ: Yeah. In a suicide the person is going through such mental turmoil and by committing suicide you can rest assured the person will be going through the same turmoil but much, much more intensified. Yeah.

11. U S 82 - 45 VOICE: And then after death some people believe that...if you believe that the soul and your force and your energy rises or splits off or whatever, or goes to wherever it goes, the soul or the energy or whatever of the person who [does?] that, suicide, doesn't. It's almost like it has unfinished busine ss on the Earth. And sort of... It's kind of a gruesome... GURURAJ: No, no. That intensification of the turmoil also passes away. It also subsides after awhile, like everything else. And then it starts evaluating what birth to take. VOICE: Okay. Taking into account that its body was killed by [someone?]? GURURAJ: Um hm. You know, you talk of death. Hitler went to a fortune teller and he asked the fortune teller, "What day will I die?" So the fortune teller said that, "You will die on a Jewi sh holiday." [LAUGHTER] "For your death will be celebrated as a Jewish holiday." [LAUGHTER] VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] that parenting is a real challenge. Would you make some kind of a general statement about [?????????]? GURURAJ: Parenting is not a challenge. Parenting is a pleasure. Oh, definitely. It is a pleasure if you take it in the perspective of learning so much from it. From the child, as I said before. Many people find it arduous because they feel that they a re taking on extra responsibility by bringing forth a child. But look at the rewards they are getting by taking on the responsibility. And taking on responsibility is a reward unto itself. So have more children. Population explosion. [H E LAUGHS] You kn ow, two burglars broke into a shop and while they were packing up the boxes one of them happened to notice a price on a suit. So he says, "This price, this is sheer robbery." [LAUGHTER] Yes. So, this little old lady was traveling in this train and she as ks the train conductor, "Which end do I get off?" Because a train coach has two ends. So the train conductor replies, "Madam, you can get off at either end, because both stop at the same time." [LAUGHTER] Any more questions? Yeah. VOICE: [I talked?] a bout parenting, taking on the responsibility of, you know, the child and [INAUDIBLE]. What happens with abortion? Is that a building of a karma besides from that, and [????] let that life live? Has that... I know that's a

12. U S 82 - 45 question that has troubled man y people. Is that a...is the soul actually there? Has it decided not to come in and stopped its own life there? What happens in that kind of situation? GURURAJ: In abortion what happens is this, that the child itself required the experience of a certa in period of gestation, is that the word you use? VOICE: Gestation. GURURAJ: Gestation. The child required the experience of a certain period of gestation. Right. And because it found a vehicle that will provide that facility of gestation, right, that is far as the child is concerned. But the parents, how are they affected, that is the bigger question? And they have to take many things into account for abortion. Firstly, will they be responsible for the child if it is born? If they are people w ith some diseases, would they be engendering that disease or not? Right. That has to be taken into account. The very conception that took place, was it because of love or lust? That has to be taken into account. So, rather, instead of avoiding sex, avo id conception and not have abortion. And with modern technology that is easy. Yeah? VOICE: You said that disease and illness was dis ease. And I would assume, especially from what's been going on these past few days, that all disease could then be ease d and healing can take place. GURURAJ: Oh, yes. VOICE: Okay. What about things like birth defects? Is that all [????] that, or if you are born with it... GURURAJ: If you are born with birth defects, it reflects the karma of a previous life which ha s to be worked out through that defect, where you learn. VOICE: Okay, so that the person chose to live a life with a birth defect. GURURAJ: Yes. Oh, definitely.

13. U S 82 - 45 VOICE: And whatever they need to do, they needed the birth defect to do it. GURURAJ: T o do it. It's a good thing. So everything is good. That's what I said earlier. VOICE: [With?] handicapped child sometimes it's a little hard to explain that to their parents. GURURAJ: Yah. Everything is good. You know, this one lady went to a hotel and asks the clerk, "Could you give me a room and bathe bath?" [LAUGHTER] "Could you give me a room and bath?" So the clerk replies, "I can give you a room, but you'll have to take your own bath." [LAUGHTER] Nex t. VOICE: Before, you said after you die you evaluate and you choose to rebirth again. You choose your parents. What does it mean then when babies are miscarried? What is happening there when there is a miscarriage? GURURAJ: Yeah, it is the same thing as the abortion problem, where... VOICE: [INTERRUPTING] Well, but a miscarriage is not your choice. Abortions are choice, but the miscarriage is not. GURURAJ: Yeah, it is not... Yeah, it is so...it is not karmacally effecting to the parents. It does not effect the parents and their karma in any way at all. VOICE: Well, what's happening with that child? Is he rejecting his choice [????]? GURURAJ: No, not rejecting. The child needed the experience of that period of gestation as an experien ce. VOICE: He only needed that certain time and that was it? GURURAJ: It was?

14. U S 82 - 45 VOICE: He only needed that certain time and that was it? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. VOICE: Now he goes back in and... GURURAJ: Goes back and then he chooses again. He might choose the same parents. But there are many complex experiences needed to work out this patterning. And I say there is a short cut, a direct hot line to avoid all these patternings by reaching the finest relative level of ourselves, the superconscious level mind. Oh, yes, all this can be avoided. All these miseries can be avoided. VOICE: I really want to ask you where you go after you finally become self realized? I didn't mean specifically, but the next level where you don't have to go through that cycle again. What is that? Where is that? GURURAJ: Yeah. When you take a pound of salt and you throw it into the ocean, it is not going to make the ocean saltier. You enjoy the vastness of the ocean. [INAUDIBLE]. And then you have certain teachers, which they call the avataras, they take birth, although they don't need to, they take birth again and again to teach humanity. Like the Gita would say that, "When evil rises and an imbalance is br ought about, a great imbalance, then I take birth from age to age." But the rest that becomes enlightened, they merge away into the Absolute into that blissful existence. Why enjoy a little puddle when you have the whole ocean to enjoy. You see. VOICE: Because some of the puddles are enjoyable [INAUDIBLE]. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Yeah, the puddles are enjoyable for the poodles. [HE LAUGHS] VOICE: If you can't learn to love the puddles, you'll never enjoy the [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: True. True. True. True. But that does not mean you remain there. You see. You progress along.

15. U S 82 - 45 You know, there was this fat chap, he was very stout, and he asked, "Why are fat people always so good natured?" So the friend replies, "We have to be good natured, because we could neither fight nor run." [LAUGHTER] Next. Oh, what's the hurry? Let's [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER] You know, there was this... Some of our... [END SIDE ONE] GURURAJ: ...other hand you are still in the same old rut. I was telling a story the other day that in India in the backwoods, the villages, you have the bullock carts. And the bullock carts running continually on those sand roads form grooves. So, the driver of the cart can go to sleep, and the cart will keep on running because of the grooves . So here's where the gurus and the psychologists come in. They put a stone in the groove, so that when the cart passes and the wheel knocks it, it jars the cart and the driver wakes up. That's what we need: awakening. We are all sleeping or dreaming. You dream that these things are real, but when you wake up you will find that there was no basis to all the fears and all the anxieties and all the miseries that you are going through. There's no basis at all. Y ou can find so many reasons. You can fin d so many excuses. But, in reality, is everything not what it should be? The entire universe functions in such a precise manner. Look at the movement of this very planet, Earth. It rotates in so many days, and revolves around the sun in so many days. And like that throughout the whole galaxy everything is so precise, so orderly. And you are orderly too, but you are creating disorder by having the ability to think wrongly. Do you see. So all depends upon awareness. We, not having the awareness, look at life through a very narrow sector of our vision. Down here you find the streets are so dirty, or the waves on the ocean are so turbulent and so rough. But go up in an airplane and those waves won't seem rough at all. You have a wider perspective. So we are putting life into compartments of various kinds of miseries: our jobs, our families, our girlfriends, our boyfriends. We are doing it. And tha t is karma. That very action of doing is karma. Now, all action must have its reaction. But we are resp onsible not only for the action, but also for the reaction. Every man can be a law unto himself if he has started to tap that divine energy that is within him. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven within and all else shall be added unto thee." And then s criptures also say, "Man, know thyself." It stresses greater importance in saying "Man, know thyself," rather than "Man, know God." You can never rise to God, but you can bring God down to you. And when I say, "you" I mean this little, cunning animal of a thinking mind. So amidst all this confusion infusion must take place, where systematically through spiritual practices and meditation you draw upon that storehouse of energy.

16. U S 82 - 45 Now, the mind, as I said for the purpose of categorizing it we divide it up into three sections. At the highest level, the superconscious level, the glass is clean and you allow th e sun of the Absolute, the neutral energy, to shine through. And in its brightness the glass, to you, will disappear. You wil l no t see the glass because of the brightness of the light. And what is the glass made so dirtied on the subconscious level and dirtier still on the conscious level of life is your ego self, is your sense of self preservation. Everyone wants to preserve h is individuality. I say, "Good, preserve the individuality." But at the same time, infuse the individuality into universality. And the way is so simple. That is the way, that is the life, and that is the truth. The w ay is so simple. Where you remain an individual, and yet have the awareness of the universal. Because by then you have become an integrated person that is functioning in totality and not fragmentedly. And to repeat again that all our problems is because of fragmentation and not integrat ion. So what we desperately need is this integration, which can so easily be had. So easily be had. That is the greatest gift that has been given to us, the power of integrating ourself: to become whole, to become healed. And that is what many instituti ons are doing today. Holistic health where the entire being is treated. For there is no separation at all whatsoever between body, mind and spirit. It is all but one at various levels of grossness or subtleness. But it is one panoramic picture. So, by developing this awareness one sees the entire panorama of life. And by seeing the entire panorama of life you will also see at the same time that this little incident that happened or that incident that happened is not so important at all. It's not impor tant. When you look at the pieces of a jig saw puzzle they seem so stupid, but when put together, when they become integrated, what a lovely picture is produced. Do you see. But we look at certain pieces of the puzzle that are dark or tha t are not so nic e in appearance. But it is part of the picture and you will realize the beauty of the shades and the shadows when the jig saw is put together; that it is the shades and the shadows that enhances the brightness. So by tapping the resources of the supercons cious level of the mind, we see life in its fullness. And by seeing life in its fullness a lot of our miseries disappear entirely, for no man needs to be ill. Well, of course, the psychologists and doctor s will be out of jobs, but they can always find so mething else to do. So, karma does play a part in your life, but it does not mean that you would have to pay for everything that you have done. I said the other day in a talk that if you have killed ten people it does not mean that you will have to be kil led ten times. No, the way is easy. Save eleven lives and you have one in the credit balance. Yeah. Or, let's use another example. If for five seconds the mind is filled with negative thoughts, then for the next six seconds have a positive thought, a good thought. One in the credit balance. For the next ten seconds a negative thought, next eleven seconds a positive thought, two in the credit balance. Now take this over a period of twenty four hours, then you can sleep well. Your insomnia will go

17. U S 82 - 45 awa y that I've lived a good day today. Right. Times that by three hundred and sixty five days of the year, and how much more a better person are you not? And that is what karma is all about. Karma is nothing else but drawing up a balance sheet. And alway s to have the capital account healthy that is karma. Action and reaction. And whenever there is action and reaction, then life is turbulent. But the secret of it all is to rise above, rise above the law of opposites to rise above pain and pleasure. For wherever there is pleasure there must be pain. Whenever there is day, there must be night. Whenever there is sunshine, there must be rain. But you can rise above that and enter the field of joy by tapping the superconscious level of your mind. That is at the highest point of relativity where man can reach. I said to someone today, while doing a healing, that if you spend half an hour in a perfume factory you will come out smelling like perfume. So when you tap that level, you do not come back empty handed. You do not come back empty handed. You come back with that joy, and life becomes infused, permeated with that joy. And when you have that joy, life becomes really worth living and living it to its fullest value. For if you think you are a crea tion, you are not a creation. You are but a manifestation. The heat...the fire does not create heat. The flower does not create fragrance, it is its very nature. And being the manifestation of the Divine Manifestor, yo u have no reason to suffer at all. When the mind is put into its right perspective through understanding and spiritual practices, then what you found to be a mountain of troubles becomes just a little molehill. Yes. One of my meditators was telling me a story. She said, "Guruji, I had a dream that we were traveling in the Alps in a small, little car. And traveling in the Alps I was so afraid," she said, "that how are we going to cross all these great big peaks, these mountains." And she says, "Later, the dream just changed and we were i n an airplane. And then when we looked down you pointed out, `Where are those big mountains now?'" They look so small. Little hills there at the bottom. Do you see. It is the viewpoint and the attitude that we have to change. And you just cannot chan ge your present attitude with the conscious mind alone, you have to tap deeper and stronger and more powerful resources that are within you. And spiritual masters teach you only how to tap those resources. They are guides. I always say that the externa l guru is there to awaken the internal guru within you. And after the internal guru is awakened within you, you can discard the external guru. Then you don't need him. But by that time you develop that universal sense where there is no accepting any mor e, no discarding any more; there is just oneness. So, because of these patternings man does not realize his oneness. He does not realize the true meaning of the words, "I and my Father are one." Jesus did not speak for himself alone. He spoke for all h umanity, which people fail to understand. "I and my Father are one," entire humanity, the entire universe and the Father is but one. There is no separation. And it is this sense of duality that makes one suffer. I and thou does not exist except only in your thoughts, in your rationalizations.

18. U S 82 - 45 There is no I and thou. There is only this oneness, this one peace, this one joy, this one bliss. So, by meditation and spiritual practices, by tapping the inner resources within you, you start experiencing this. And when you experience this, you start knowing of that oneness. Then you would really realize the meaning of "Love thy neighbor as thyself." How can you love your neighbor as yourself, when you are hating yourself? You don't like yourself. Why don't you like yourself? Because of the wrong concept of sin that has been thrust upon you. And because of past experiences you accept this suggestion that you are sinful, you must be saved. You are already saved. But we fail to see that we are already saved . There is no salvation beyond. Salvation is here and now. There is no Heaven or Hell, those are creations of man's minds, concepts. But, in reality, all that is here and created by us. Excuse me. [WATER POURING] Is it about an hour? VIDYA: Yes. GU RURAJ: It's an hour, is it? VIDYA: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Good timing. So I think we'll have a break for ten or fifteen minutes, and then the next session will start with a rapid fire question and answer. So, everyone will be welcome to ask whatever t hey wish. [NEXT SATSANG BEGINS] GURURAJ: Good. Shall we meditate for a few minutes? Any question you like, you're most welcome. VOICE: Gururaj, I've heard you say in the past on other satsangs, there is no negativity. And earlier this evening I hea rd you mention a tally sheet for negative or positive score keeping. Could you define for us what is the Absolute, and what you mean by the neutralization of these energies? GURURAJ: Uh hm. Now, there are no negativities at all in this world, but the only thing that could be called negative is our interpretation of a particular situation. Good. Now, many people would say if you have negativity within you, then you replace it with positivity, which is an impossibility. And I will challenge Dr. Norman Vincent Peale on this subject on any

19. U S 82 - 45 public platform, because you cannot make an immediate switch over from the negative to the positive. So what you need is a neutralizer. A nd the neutralizer would be one of the spiritual practices that are individually taught by us. So, when the mind if filled with a negative thought you introduce a spiritual practice into the mind which neutralizes, and then you introduce the positive thou ght. You see. Ours is a system that is not a general system of meditation like many organizations have. Ours is a very individualized system. What happens is this, that you can't have one bottle of medicine for all kinds of diseases. Every person is a u nique being. Every person has his own patternings. So, one kind of practice cannot be suitable for everyone. Fine. So therefore, the system we use is this, right around the world, that everyone gets initiated by me personally. Now, the way we do it is this, that a photograph, plus a form with name, address and things written on it, is posted to me by our teachers. And I go into meditation, using the photograph as a focal point. And by using it as a focal point, and me going into meditation, I contact yo u directly on the superconscious level. And contacting you on the superconscious level I would be able to evaluate your evolutionary status, your emotional state, your physical state, your mental state. And all that put together would give me the analysi s of the kind of practice that you need. In other words, it's a diagnosis of your present state and what kind of practice you would be needing. Fine. That is returned back to our teachers who are trained how to teach over the practices that I have presc ribed. So there would be recommendations and suggestions that when you are going through such and such a thing, this is what you do. So everything is totally individual and not generalized like many other organizations do. So this is my mission, for eve ryone must find his own path to that inner self that is joyful and blissful. I was telling someone the yesterday that if there are four thousand million people in this world, there should be four thousand million religions. We do not ignore the major re ligions. But yet, using those major religions, we still have to find our own paths. So, in that way we contact that which is Absolute. Now, the Absolute is a totally neutral energy. It is only up to the superconscious level that we reach the finest level of relativity. Beyond that is the Absolute, which is neutral. And once you reach the finest level of relativity, then you automatically become one with the Absolute. But what man needs, as an embodied being, is to be in touch and contact the deepest le vel that is within himself. And that is why...that is why all theologies say, "Man know thyself," as I said earlier on. You see. And by allowing the infusion from the superconscious level into various aspects of our lives, the Absolute is automatically t here. The Absolute is a neutral energy which could be used the way we want to use it. If you use it in a refrigerator, you produce coldness. And the same electricity if you put it in a heater you'd produce warmth. So, that has nothing...Divinity has not hing to do with our karma. We are responsible for our own actions. And the actions must flow from us, not with premeditation. You can't force yourself to be good. You can't force yourself to do a good act.

20. U S 82 - 45 You can, but it would be surface value. But t he greater value can only come if all those actions your perform become spontaneous. It becomes a way of life wherein you would find the secret of inaction in action, and action in inaction. And that is how nothing can effect you. That is how the pattern ings are removed, discarded, and new patternings are not formed that would effect your contact with that which is real in you and not the superficial. Because we are just swimming on the surface which is turbulent, but if we dive deeper down in the sea we 'll find great stillness and calmness there. VOICE: If we are all divine, and we are, and if we're all one and not separate, and if any act we do as a divine, whole being is the act of Divinity, then why did we as divine beings choose to enter the state of feeling separate from our Divinity? GURURAJ: Yes. Beautiful question. The entering of a state of feeling that we are separate from divinity is brought about by the experiences we have gained in life. Everything in life or in the universe is subjec ted to contraction and expansion all the time. It is because of the law of opposites. So what we have to do is return to the center, instead of playing around on the periphery. So when you return to the center, then only would you realize that you are not separate from Divinity. So, the idea of separation from Divinity is a superimposition upon actuality. So, separation might seem real to you, but reality is not actuality. Actually, you are not separate, but you hav e superimposed this thought because of the various experiences. For example, like birth where you are separate from your mother now; while for nine months you were together. Do you see. So, all these various experiences has produced the idea in us that we are separated from Divinity. But if we dive deeper down within ourselves, get away from the periphery and enter the center, we will find that even this apparent separateness revolves around the one still axle. The axle has to be there. The axle does not turn, but the wheel turns. And y et the axle is the very thing that supports the turning of the wheel. So, the realization that must be brought about is that, "I am the axle around which the entire wheel turns." And the axle is part and parcel of the motion which consists...which makes up life. Because life has to have motion. And that very motion makes you think that you are separate. For is it not said in the scriptures, "Be still and know that I am God?" And that stillness is found in the axle and not in the wheel. We are mixed u p too much in the wheel, in the motion, that we have forgotten the stillness that is there right in the center. Do you see. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] for another question?

21. U S 82 - 45 GURURAJ: Hm? Sure. VOICE: As divine beings then we voluntarily chose to subject ou rselves to the illusions. Aren't we doing the will of our divine consciousness by being in this state of feeling separate, and there's really no harm that can come from it? GURURAJ: There's no harm that can come from it. The only thing, if you wish to regard it to be harmful, is the sense of duality. Now, wherever there is duality there will be conflict, but wherever there is oneness there is no conflict. So, the choice is yours. Man is master of his destiny. The choice is yours to choose that, am I one with Him, or am I separate from Him? But those are steps along which a man progresses. From duality one progresses to qualified non duality. And then from there you progress to unity. For example, Jesus said to some people that could not really und erstand him, he said, "Pray to thy Father in Heaven." And then to others that could understand more he said that you are part. You are the branches of the one tree. You're a part of Divinity. And those that could really understand him well he said, "I and my Father are one." So those are the three stages man progresses through. For without knowing duality you can never know unity. And the conflict and the problems and the sufferings lie in the sense of this dualness. So we have to go beyond this dua lness to find that unity. And that unity exists at the level of the superconscious mind to which everyone, through a very simple, scientific procedure, can reach. You see. VOICE: You used the phrase, "evolutionary status." Would you explain? GURURA J: It means...it means where you are at now. That's all. It's so simple. Some people are more evolved than others. In other words, some people are more unfolded than others. For example, our organization runs under the umbrella name of The Internation al Foundation for Spiritual Unfoldment. Remember unfoldment, not development. So evolution here would mean how much unfolded you are, how much more aware you are of existence itself. That is evolution, as far as man is concerned. VOICE: You talked a little bit before, also, that there is no Satan and that we're all divine, et cetera. Where does the ev il come from then [in the way we're living at?]? Where do bad things come from if we're all divine and we all have this [INAUDIBLE ]?

22. U S 82 - 45 GURURAJ: Um hm. Yes, right. Bad things come from your mind! That's the only place where it resides. There is no...because I said there is no sin, you can immediately see from that that there could be so Satan. So bad things are a projection of our own minds, of our own patternings, which is projected upon others and see others to be good or bad, depending upon your own patternings. Therefore, to quote the scriptures again it says, "Judge ye not that ye be judged." For how qualified are we to judge what is good and what is bad? There is no evil at all. Evil is a projection, a superimposition upon that which is good. And yet, I could go further and tell you that there is no good either. There is no evil and no good either. There's a story about Milarepa, the Tibetan yogi. He said that, "When I was young I did black deeds. And when I had greater understanding I did white deeds. And now I do neither." That means you have risen above the law of opposites. And it is only when you reach the deepe r layers, the deeper levels of yourself that you can rise beyond the law of opposites and good and evil means pain and pleasure. But you can rise above pain and pleasure because they are so momentary, so momentary. And momentary and also non existent, ex cept in your own thinking. Condemn the action, perhaps, but do not condemn the actor. For he might need that very deed that he did to bring him to a certain realization. So therefore, you love thy neighbor as thyself. And your neighbor could be a murder er or a rapist or a thief. You see the Divinity in him and not the surface which is illusory. See, we tend to weigh things only with the analytical mind, but by going deeper we go beyond analysis. And when you go beyond analysis, then you get the truer view of what things are about. So why hate the murderer? Perhaps he needed it. His karma demanded him to perform such an act. Love him. It is easy to love a friend, but love an enemy, ah. Then you know what love is. If people asked me, "Do you love?" I say, "No, I am love." And that is the state which all must reach that I am that love. I do not need to love, because the very word "need" denotes a dependency. So, from first being independent you become interdependent. And then after that you become independent again. The first independent sense is because of need, and the second independent state is because without need you are standing on your own feet without crutches. **** END ****


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