1. U S 83 - 105 TEACHER'S TRAINING BOURBONNAIS PART 2 VOICE: ...e asier for them to let go. GURURAJ: Easier for them to let go, yes. Yeah, I remember someone knocking me up at four in the morning. Knocking me up [LAUGHS]. VOICE: Waking you up. GURURAJ: Waking me up, yeah. Knocking on my door at four in the morning, and this chap's mother was near eighty, or something like that. She was suffering for three days, you know. And she just couldn't let go. And they wanted her to let go because sh e had suffered a lot. And doctors and this and that. [INAUDIBLE] Someone mentioned me, and this person came, and I, you know, went in my pajamas. You could do that, you know, just by putting a gown over you. It's not so cold there as it is here. And t hen I sat on the bed and I put her head on my lap, you know, and in five minutes time she gave her last breath. And how is that done? It's so simple. Simple to me, perhaps. You know what I mean. Like for example, it's simple for you to cook a nice pot of food, to me it would be, oh! You know, I wouldn't be able to do it. I went into meditation, and in that meditation connected myself to her subtle body. The gross body is left behind, it's the subtle body that goes. Connected myself to her subtle bod y, and in this subtle body there were desires to keep alive, attachments and things. And connecting to the subtle body I changed the vibrations in the subtle body so that the desires, although not totally gone, were so much minimized that she could float away. You could do that. PRASEELA: Guruji. GURURAJ: Um hm. PRASEELA: My grandmother is eighty three, and seems to be getting more and more upset every day. It's as if every worry and bother that she ever had for eighty three years it's just getting more and more and more intensified. I guess what bothers me about it, I hate to think of her...it seems like she's not getting anywhere [INAUDIBLE]. Things are just getting worse and worse and worse.
2. U S 83 - 105 GURURAJ: It would. She's reliving her entire life . Yah. And especially a person always relives the bad things more so than the good things. You see. And that also comes through a sense of guilt, and also to a sense of repentance that would be good, rather than guilt. You know, she is guilty, I have done this, and I have done that. And here at the last moment they have nothing else to do but lie in bed and remind her, you know, "I did this to auntie Mary, and I did this, you know, to uncle John." And things like that go through her mind. [INAUDIBLE ] start to meditate or something, it would help. But it's difficult at that age her even wanting to start to meditate. PRASEELA: Are people like that likely to end up dying in the end, and have to start all over and all this stuff, and not even get it w orked out? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. You take all that with you. One lifetime is not enough for most, most, most people to work out all the garbage. PRASEELA: Is there any purpose in letting it get so... GURURAJ: Is any? PRASEELA: Is there any purpose in letting it intensify like that? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. The more it's intensified, the quicker it will go. Like you, for example, the baby is crying, so you leave him alone for five minutes and he shuts up. Instead of pampering him, then every time he'll w ant to be pampered. So that little five minutes of crying, that intensity, is good. Ah, but to die conscious is so beautiful. Mm. These people that are clinging so much to life, they have to be explained these things. That why cling to a rotten body th at's all decayed now. You'll get another fresh one. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] someone that's in a coma. Could you make more of a connection with them?
3. U S 83 - 105 GURURAJ: Like me, I tell you people a story of I snapped a person out of a coma on long distance telephone. Didn't I tell you people the story? No. We were at Merrill's, Merrill Harmin. You all know Merrill Harmin, right? St. Louie. We were at his h ouse and a doctor, an Indian doctor, by the way, who knows Chetan very well, his brother was going somewhere, I think he might have been coming to a course or whatever it was, had an accident and his wife died in the accident and he went into a coma. So t hey wanted to get in touch with...you know, so this doctor, after rummaging he had a briefcase I suppose, rummaging through the papers found a picture of me and some literature, on...I think one of these brochures we got, whatever American Meditation So ciety. So this doctor thought, let him get in touch with me. So the doctor phoned me at Harmin's place. And I think they phoned here first and Sujay gave the number, or something like that. And so he phoned, so I told this doctor, I says, "Look, what y ou do is get through to the hospital where your brother is. And just get the telephone at his bedside so he could just hear me. Fine. So, now, meanwhile near, about twenty miles from the hospital their sister lived. And he got hold of the sister, and t he sister drove to the hospital, and then spoke to the doctors and nurses and things like that, and managed to get the phone. And then I started speaking to the phone. He was totally, totally incoherent. He didn't know where he was [up?]. With a certai n idea I pressed in his head, you know, I said do this, do this, do this. [INAUDIBLE] repeat a million times. So he could register it slightly. And then he started doing it, and I said, "Phone me tomorrow morning how you are feeling." And next morning he phoned back, because I told the nurse, I spoke to the nurse afterwards to take the number down of Merrill Harmin. And he phoned back and he was totally coherent, and he snapped out of his coma. You see, so these things can even be done from far distan ces. Now, this proves that in that sphere on the subtle level there is no time and no space. It's all there. Do you see. [Both?] here and now. [INAUDIBLE] So a person in a coma can be contacted, oh yes. Can't snap it. We tried one thing, but it didn't work out, unfortunately. That is, I didn't try, but Nirmala Morosani, you know her don't you all. She tried. I believe it was a case here in America where this man got sentenced to jail for fourteen years for, you know, overdosing his wife with insulin. I believe it made headlines here. Now, Nirmala knew some people that were friends of these people. And so I asked Nirmala if she just can't get me in touch with this woman that's still in coma for a ll these years. Yeah. So two things could have been p ossible, we could have snapped her out of her coma and she could have given evidence to free the husband out of jail who was in for fourteen years. But when Nirmala wrote and the friends of Nirmala got in touch with friends of those people, and for some r eason or the other they would not accept the idea. Although they wrote back to Nirmala to say, thank you very much for your deep concern and things. Who knows how much...what people have to hide. Or else that would have been good for our movement. Ther e would have been a lot of publicity. There would have been. VOICE: Is she still alive?
4. U S 83 - 105 GURURAJ: I don't know. I'm talking of about two years ago. VOICE: I think she is. GURURAJ: Is she? But I believe it received, that case received, a lot of pu blicity in America. Every paper carried the story. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] Truman Capote received evidence for the husband. GURURAJ: Human? VOICE: Truman Capote. GURURAJ: Yah. [INAUDIBLE] VOICE: He testified just two days ago that the wife had defi nitely showed him how to use a needle to inject herself with the insulin, and that she bragged to him that she had used drugs and alcohol and other things to diet and to keep herself younger and all that. And he put that in the court record. [INAUDIBLE] VOICES: [INAUDIBLE] VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] ...there's situations where physical or mental illness or problems that it really comes to that person, because it's something they have to experience in their karmic [?????], who knows? That there's certain cas es where the person, it's almost like doing wrong. If you would have power enough to be able to bring forth a healing or whatever. GURURAJ: That is very true. Now, to illustrate this.... Look, if it's a minor thing, you know, nervous complaint, or a p ain, or this, that, okay, you fix that up. But one should never fix up major karma of people. VOICE: How would you know?
5. U S 83 - 105 GURURAJ: Well, I do know. VOICE: Oh, yeah, you. But how about anybody else that would happen to be a healer? GURURAJ: It would be difficult really. Well, then all our healers, you know, they are doing, you could say, an elementary kind of healing. It's not the things that go deep down into karma and samskaras, you see. So it's totally safe and nothing to both er about there. For example, Jesus. At that time why did he only make a few people see...few that were blind, or heal just a few that were lame, when there were thousands and thousands of blind people, and thousands and thousands of lame people? You see , when you do such a major thing is when you see that the person has paid off the karma and there's just a little left. And then that person can give a push [and be healed?]. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE: That answers a lot...?] GURURAJ: Because if a person has a certain karma which is very strong, and the person has to learn from, and has to work out himself, and if you, you know, rid that person of that karma, you're not ridding it, you're postponing it. So in th e next life the person is still faced with the s ame problem. So you're not doing the person a favor. You see. You're not doing the person a favor. But when it comes to a minor thing, that's nothing. VOICE: When you're healing a minor thing does that just have temporary benefits? GURURAJ: No, no, permanent. Permanent benefits; otherwise there's no purpose of healing. VOICE: No, I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about... GURURAJ: Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. No. Permanent benefits in any of our healers. In other words, there are healers in all other countries, as well as here, who are nothing else but extensions of me. That's what it means. Otherwise, how could one person reach everywhere then?
6. U S 83 - 105 VOICE: ...as a healer we can't guarantee any kind of results. [INAUDIBLE]...with this heal ing all of your pain will be gone. I never know from one person to the next what benefits they're going to... GURURAJ: You don't. You don't promise. You don't promise anything. You don't promise anything at all. Do it and you would see the results . And the person will tell you. Allow them to tell you. Because if you told them what could happen is this, that you plant suggestions in their mind, and you don't want that. And then that won't be permanent, Gail. You see. Then that won't be permanen t if you're planting suggestions. But you could tell a person that you'll feel very calm after this. You could say that. Nothing wrong with that, because that is always true. The person always feels calm. I very seldom say that. But if you want to, yo u could. But I always ask them, "Do you feel calmer now?" And they say, "Yes." How much if you had to measure it in percentages, you know, what would you say: fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty, hundred percent calmer? And invariably they always say, "Oh, e ighty percent, hundred percent calmer." VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] ...faith probably done more than anything [??????]. GURURAJ: Not necessarily. I've treated people, you know, that were the severest sceptics. Scientists. Like we were doing some experiments, we've done a hundred and fifty cases so far. But we have to do five hundred according to professor [Gillis?]. H e is the head of the psychiatric department at the Cape Town University. And he's also the head of the, I mean the Groote Schuur Hospital, which is very famous in the world. It's where the first heart transplant was done. He's also the head of the psych iatric department there and the department of neurology. And in Cape Town itself there is an insane asylum, called [Falconburg?]. And we did about a hundred and fifty tests, so far, where the person, the insane person, gets connected up with all these el ectrodes, about sixteen of them, and then that gets recorded on a machine. You know, it's squiggly lines so these guys could read graphs, in other words. VOICE: Encephalogram. GURURAJ: Encephalogram, [?????]. And there were amazing changes in those graphs encephalograms amazing changes. What I did was, you know, I felt the lack of certain synaptic control, and the neurons not firing properly and things like that. And with these energies we made it fire properly. And it reflected on those charts. He wants to do a book on it, or for, at least a, what do they call it?
7. U S 83 - 105 VOICE: Paper. GURURAJ: A paper. There's another word... VOICE: He wants to publish a paper on it. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Yeah, and he wants to publish a paper on it. Yeah. No, no, no. It's a medical journal. VOICE: No, doctors publish papers. You're writing a thesis before you get your degree. You publish papers after you get your degree. GURURAJ: And then that of course, is always published in medical journa ls, like the Scientific American, or some top grade, you know. He wants to do that. VOICE: Is it possible, does it ever happen that a meditator would pick up on a minor illness or something that another person has, because the meditator can deal with th at minor illness better than the other person? Do meditators ever take on another person's... GURURAJ: No. No. To take on is a totally different thing altogether. And none of our meditators that I've seen so far could do it. I'll give you one exampl e of Edra. Do you all know Edra? Short, little, thin, yah. VOICES: [DISCUSSING EDRA] GURURAJ: No, but in California she used to come to courses, and she plays this weird instrument. Some name. VOICE: Dulcimer. GURURAJ: Dulcimer, that's it. Hey, this guy's got a good memory.
8. U S 83 - 105 VOICE: [He's got about three kicks, so far?] GURURAJ: Yeah, and she also [???????]. And now.... Oh, this was the first time I took a phone call in a toilet. [LAUGHTER] Yah. I was sitting at Charles and Linda Shaw's home. They came here. I think some of you might remember. They live in England. And whenever I go to England I always go and live with them for a few days. I always go a few days before a course to relax before the c ourse starts. And here the phone call came from Randy Hansen, here from America. Most of you might know him. Washington. He phoned, and then of course being an overseas call, you know, he passed, you know, Charles passed the phone around corner into th e toilet. [DEMONSTRATES] And Randy tells me about Edra, that her kidney had collapsed and she was in very severe pain. So here again is thought power, hm, that works. So I started immediately getting this terrific pain, just here by this kidney. And i t kept on the whole evening, and the whole night through, and the whole day through, practically. And then suddenly the pain disappeared. It went. And I told Charles and Linda, I said, "This woman, Edra, she just died." And I didn't know about it. It's only when I got here that Vidya told me that she died on the twenty first or [some date. I suppose it was?] the exact day and time. So you can...and that was...because I knew that she was not going to live. So make things a bit easier for her. You kno w, lessen her pain, because I would be able to chuck it off quickly and she won't be able to. VOICE: If you took her pain [INAUDIBLE] PRASEELA: Is that a different kind of healing [INAUDIBLE]? GURURAJ: That's a different thing, altogether. VOICE: A nd you didn't take the actual illness, you took just pain, right? GURURAJ: Yeah. Yeah. I knew, in other words, she has to die. Fine. But I wanted her to die, you know, with...painlessly. [INAUDIBLE] I mean that's from America to England. There again another point that I expressed earlier, on that level there's no space and time it's all here and now. I suffered one night, so what? Nothing. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE]
9. U S 83 - 105 GURURAJ: Can you? VOICE: Can we healers take on other people's [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: No, you should not. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: I think Peggy asked it earlier. No. No, you won't pick it up. You won't pick it up. VOICE: If we feel anything though, is it possible that we are just identifying with... GURURAJ: Just identifying, and the fear, that's all. But you've picked up nothing. VOICE: Okay. GURURAJ: Are you feeling tired? VOICE: All of a sudden I'm just, yes. Not tired, just like [????], I don't know. GURURAJ: Oh. Oh. VOICE: But my bo dy is trembling. My body is trembling, but I feel [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: Feel calm, hm? VOICE: What about rinsing your hands in the cold water afterwards? What does that have to do with it? GURURAJ: Yeah. Because touching the person, you know, ther e are some vibrations that would adhere to your hands of the person. So you took them under cold hands to get rid of it.
10. U S 83 - 105 VOICE: I feel relief as soon as I have my hands under it, but that doesn't mean that if I don't I'll... GURURAJ: No, you'll just f eel a bit uncomfortable. And why suffer the discomforts, that's all? Nothing can harm there. But why feel the discomforts when you can just put your hands under cold water. It's quite nice, especially on an icy cold day. [LAUGHS] PRASEELA: When your mandala practice is interrupted, when you're interrupted during a regular meditation you sort of feel like you've done a short meditation, but with the mandala you feel like you've done half a meditation. Is it better, if you think you're going to be inte rrupted, [to do it some other time?] [INAUDIBLE] mandala. Or should you [INAUDIBLE]? GURURAJ: Do something else. PRASEELA: It's better to wait until you're going to have time to finish? GURURAJ: Yeah. Something else. You see, these things are flexible. [INAUDIBLE] your practices, the package you've been given according, so it can fit in with your schedule. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: You're not on the mandala yet? MALE VOICE: I' ve never even heard of the word. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Oh, no. VOICE: Oh, I [?????] all kinds of things. [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Oh, dear me. I wonder...
11. U S 83 - 105 VOICES: I'm not doing the mandala either, yet. I'm not either. GURURAJ: Aren't you on the man dala yet? VOICE: No. GURURAJ: But you're on the full mantra. SUJAY?: I'll give you mine. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Are you on the mantra? Jenny, are you on the mantra practice? JENNY: I'm on the mantra, yes. GURURAJ: And you, Mavis, are you on the mantra practice? And both of you are on the mantra practice, but not on the mandala. Oh, I wonder if a teaching session can't be organized this afternoon? VOICE: I asked not to do the mandala. [INAUDIBLE] GURUR AJ: I see, that's the reason. Only you must be on to it. How long you been meditating? VOICE: How long? You mean like time factor? GURURAJ: More than three, six months? VOICE: Oh, yes. GURURAJ: Oh, well, that's alright. You two, both of you t here.
12. U S 83 - 105 VOICE: No, I've haven't had the full that long though. No, I haven't had the full yet. VOICE: You've had it three months. VOICE: Has it been that long? VOICE: I haven't figured out where I'm going to put it [??????]. VOICES: [DISCUSSING PO SSIBLE SOLUTIONS] VOICE: The mandala has all these different steps, you know. And when you get half way through and you're interrupted, should we go back and start from the beginning, or just continue from where you left out. Because I feel likes it's building momentum o r something. GURURAJ: Continue from where you left off, or as Phyllis says do another practice. Because the mandala is a combination of the other practices that you've been taught the mantra, pranayama, visualization, activating, you know, the various chakras, prayer. Very easy. Very easy. VOICES: Keeps you busy. Very interesting. You don't get bored doing it, let's put it that way. You don't get bored. GURURAJ: You don't get bored at all. I wonder if Vidya has some mandalas here? SUJAY: I'm not sure. GURURAJ: If she has it can be done today. Or else we'll have to leave it for August. Yes, I must remember to ask her if she needs any mandalas so I can bring with when I come in August. VOICE: I'm hungry. VOICE: Is there anything we need to do before Vidya gets back or anything?
13. U S 83 - 105 SUJAY: I don't know. I'm not sure what with all.... Why don't you just take a break? Goof off. Lay down and roll over, switch the tape off. **** END ****
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