United States 86-22

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1. U S 86 - 22 ESCAPING NAME AND FORM RAJESH: Do I have to speak into this? GURURAJ: Yes, please do. RAJESH: Before I ask my question... (Is that all right?) Before I ask my question, I'd just like to convey a message from all the British meditators. And the message is very simple: our doors, like our hearts, are always open, and we hope that you will come and visit us. You will all be very, very welcome. Also, there's a message from the meditators in Denmark who send their Namaste's to you. And also Spain. Our phone didn't stop ring ing before we left, actually. People would say, give everyone our love, you know, and we'd say, yes we will. So, it's really wonderful to be here. Thank you. So many warm and beautiful greetings. Beloved Bapuji, how can we as human beings pierce the ve ils of name and form? GURURAJ: Beautiful. Just put it over there, I think, for the next person. How we as human beings could pierce the name and form. Now, firstly, who says you are a human being, and who says there is name and form? So, there lies th e contradiction. Firstly, you might belong to the homo sapien species, and if you were on a different planet you might have been called not human beings but by a different name. So that is where name and form comes into being, because all people are shap ed in a certain way, two arms, two legs, and a little bit of gray matter up there. So, we are human beings. Let us accept the term, "human beings." Because I'm sure nobody would like to be called an animal being. Although we are not too far from that s tage. This could be very well judged by the behavior we find around the world. Good. Now, the human being does not need to escape from name and form. For as soon as you escape from name and form, you will lose all identity and individuality. The only t ime you can escape or be away from name and form is when you become totally egoless. When you become egoless, name and form does not matter at all, because then you would not be living in the third dimension. All our perceptions... firstly, seeing, for e xample, is the third dimension and that creates the form. But what would that form be like if you are in the fourth dimension? Mataji there, Tamaji, she's a wonderful artist. And some of you are too, Laura and the others. For example, if you have a two dimensional painting, now you do a two dimensional painting and you do a three dimensional painting. So, the three dimensional one would seem much more alive than the two

2. U S 86 - 22 dimensional one, because the two dimensional one is flat. Now, how can you assume that you, living in the third dimension, is not flat to the fourth dimension? That is what you have to think about. And that in the stage of turiya. It's a Sanskrit word which means to go beyond the mind. Then you could see in the fourth dimension. Salv ador Dali, for example, he knew form. He had a very good sense of draftsmanship, etc., etc. But yet his paintings you'd find one eyeball hanging down his cheek here. You must have seen Salvador Dali's paintings. And, of course, Laura and Jeff would tel l you more about it. Now, from what dimension did that perception come where you would see that eyeball hanging down here? Now, who wants an eye ball to hang down on his cheek? Why are you laughing? You see, Merrill, they don't understand my jokes. [L AUGHTER] What can we do? You see, it's a matter of name and form. Right. But where they place the form and the name, that's important. And then he's painted other paintings where the eyeball is fallen down and covered with his lid. And that ball coul d not see at all, while the other ball with eyes open perhaps could see. We don't know. So, now through which dimension is he looking? Where does he get his conception from? Can we call it a kind of mental aberration? Can we call it a kind of mental pe rversion, or has he gone beyond the third dimension and into a different dimension where people walk around with eyeballs hanging? Do you see? Where do we find the distinction there? From what dimension? We can only find the distinction by his method of interpretation, into what form he molds something so hideous. Now, is that the hideousness within his mind, or is the hideousness objective, outside him, and he sees the world in a topsy turvy manner? Where does that originate? It is definitely a combi nation of the two. Where the exterior casts an impression on the interior of his mind, and that he portrays in his painting in form. That he portrays on canvas and thereby express his own personal feelings, or what he would feel inside him or assume what is inside him. So the point is this to remember, that form has many facets. If you look at an object, like that case standing over there, if you look at it from this side, it looks different from there; it would look different from here. It would look d ifferent. But is that reality? It's a matter of from which angle you are looking at a certain object. Now, the same principle applies when you look at something inwardly. The same principle applies. So here again, you are adding name and form. I woul d say that box standing over there is narrow, you would say it is broad, you might say something else. So, name and form is dependent upon the angle of vision or where you are standing. And if you only see the form to be of a certain particular shape, th en you try to analyze the reality of it. But how many people analyze the reality of it? You see a candle flame burning in a lamp and under the lamp, the earthen lamp, there is darkness. But your attention is not with the darkness, but only on the light itself. So have you captured then the entirety of the flame burning in the lamp, or have you captured it only partially? Because without the holder, the lamp, that shadow would not be there. So, light and shade are

3. U S 86 - 22 intermixed. They both exist simultane ously (pardon) and by our personal interpretations we guide our vision to that which is most acceptable to us, or perhaps most pleasurable to us. So, to repeat again, form has no reality. It has no reality. One person might see a woman to be very beautifu l, another might not see the beauty in her at all, and yet she is the same person. So, here we bring in the factor of perception. And wherever there is perception there are limitations. We all have different inches to our foot rule. A foot. We measure things by the feet, the foot. Some people's perceptions are limited to nine inches. They think nine inches is a foot. Some to ten. And those that have really known the ruler would see that it is twelve inches. You see how we belie ourself, how we confu se ourself in this world of name and form? And the reason why we get so confused and befuddled is because we are human beings that has not realized or recognized his own personal Divinity. For once he realizes his own personal Divinity, his individuality ceases and he becomes universal. So, perception can be limited, and at the same time it is limitless. But we limit it, we put limitations. If you decide in your mind that you can only walk one mile, and then when you reach the signpost of one mile somet hing happens in your brain chemistry where you will start feeling tired. As you are approaching the one mile limit you will get more and more tired. So here we come to the idea of preconception, which is a blood brother of perception. So, when you preco nceive of something, your perception becomes limited. Your perception becomes limited to your preconception of things. So, your preconception at this stage is this that I am a limited human being, which is not true and that falsifies all name and form. Now, how can, as the questioner asked, Rajesh... Rajesh means the God of kings. And his wife is Jasmini, as you have been introduced to, the most beautiful jasmine flower. So you see the advantages that Rajesh has: the God of all kings and wrapped with the fragrance of that beautiful jasmine. Sometimes I wax into poetry because I love so much. I just love, love, love. And it also gives you a chance to think a bit what I mean by name and form by bringing it down, making the mind feel quiet, and then we start up again. Now, when we talk of name and form, then we have to admit that opposing factors: name and nameless. Name, nameless. Form, formless. Which are you? So to repeat, because of your preconceptions, your perception of things becomes limited. And because of that limitation, people suffer all kinds of miseries. They fail to see the limitations. Today we received it was on the airplane coming here a letter addressed by someone with some mental problems, and of course they normally pour it ou t all on the guru, you know. In spite of having millions and millions of years of samskaras, they expect the guru to wave a wand and rid them of all their mental turmoils and mental imbalance, instead of taking it step by step by step. So, these two secr etaries of mine, they were... I asked them to read the letter. They read the letter. So their consensus of opinion there was this, that why should this person pour his vengeance or whatever on his guru? So, we started discussing it. So, when we landed, nearly landed at Chicago, I told them look how beautiful it is. Firstly,

4. U S 86 - 22 you had the opportunity of studying a person's mind through that letter. You have an idea of how that person's mind worked, some explanation to it, and that could help in many cases for you to avoid those pitfalls. Right. On the practical side, discussing that one letter, the journey went quickly. Look at the advantage. Otherwise you sit there for two hours being bored on an airplane. Do you see. So, what was I dependent on? T he name and form to which his thought had taken shape, because shape is form. And you name it that what kind of form it is. If it's a loving form, or an angry form. Do you see? But if you look at it in a different way, you can see so many things into t he person's heart. His inhibitions, aberrations, perversions. His entire make up. And sometimes you do get a bit angry. Then that anger passes away, and you say no, no, no, no, no. You musn't be angry, because anger is human limitation. And when you feel angry it is also because of your perception, that how you perceive a thing. If you perceive a thing wrongly, naturally you would be angry. And if you see something that's the right way, you do not feel angry. You can be happy about everything in li fe. If someone takes a nail or two nails for that matter, and knocks it through my palms and through here somewhere, because here it would slip out, I will not be pained. I will not be pained, because the mind would not be on the body. It will be in a d ifferent dimension and not in the three dimensional world. And when you take your mind into another dimension you do not feel the pain. Your ordinary hypnotists demonstrate that to you. You've seen stage shows where they through suggestion... Don't you ever get hypnotized, by the way. It's very dangerous. Because what happens in hypnotism is this, that the person giving you those suggestions are also imparting to you all their negativities. So don't subject yourself ever to hypnotism. Right. So, we hypnotize ourselves into many forms and beliefs, in beliefs rather, that creates name and form. While actually everything is nameless and formless. Do you see? Why is it nameless? You only know yourself by John, Joe, Mary, Yellow Canary, whatever, I don 't know. I run out of names because I don't see names. To me people are one. A rose is but a rose, Shakespeare. Still a rose. Do you see? So, we give names to things. You would not know yourself to be Mary if you had not been told that your name is Mary. Your parents gave you the name, and when you started developing, growing older, and they keep on calling you Mary, Mary, Mary, and you become Mary. What are you going to do with that name you have been given? Are you going to become a Mary Magdale ne or a Mary the mother? Well, I have my own interpretation of these things, but that is a different subject altogether. So, are you going to become Mary Magdalene or Mary the mother? That depends upon your own conceptions and perceptions. Do you see? And the greater awareness one has, the greater good one can see. In other words, the blinkers are removed and you have the full sight of things around you. Although your eyes are pointing that way, your peripheral sight has developed

5. U S 86 - 22 more where you can c apture the entire room. Do you see? Just a simple example of how to become more aware. And as awareness increases, your perception also becomes wider and wider. And here is a two way street: that preconception is the mother of perception, and perception is the father of preconception. I'll repeat that again. Preconception is the mother of perception, and perception is the father of preconception. So, one affec ts the other. The better your preconception of things with more awareness, the better your perception becomes. And as your perception of things expand in the same awareness, then your preconceptions diminish. Then you would become preconceived. Then yo u don't have preconceptions. For example, you want to go for a holiday and the finest printing in the world you can find, or some of the finest printings, are holiday brochures. (Jasuti, my darling, namaste. We have been waiting for you. But I don't sup pose I need to wait, for you are in my heart all the time.) So, where was I? ROOPA: Holiday brochures. GURURAJ: Yes. [laughter] That's why she's late. No wonder I forgot. You been on a holiday? Good. The finest printing you will find is on holida y brochures. Ask Rajesh. He'll tell you, he's a travel executive. Beautiful pictures, those lovely sunsets, those lovely mountains, and the sea and the rolling waves and beaches and you name it. Okay. So, so beautiful. So enticing that you want to go there and see it. So, you have a preconceived idea of what it will look like. But when you go there you feel oh you could have stayed at home, because a bitch is a bit... a beach is a beach and a mountain is a mountain it could have a different shape. Trees are trees, enjoy them in your garden. But if you want to go for relaxation, that's a different thing. You know, beautiful open nature, which you can find in your own garden, too. Like Tamaji's garden I enjoy so much. Her lovely little pool there , with a garden. So nice, so peaceful. One could sit there for hours. So beautiful. So, all that beauty is there here and now. But your mind becomes externalized that you can only relax if you go to that beautiful place which you find in the holiday br ochures. As a matter of fact, you do not find relaxation on going on these holidays. And most of you have tried it. Because I have tried a holiday, and when I finished the holiday I need a holiday really. Do you see? So, we have preconceived ideas of name and form, which has no reality at all except in our minds. Now, we come to an important question. How real is the mind? The mind is totally formless. Mind has no form, no shape, no size. It is universal and immeasurable, and yet because of the lack of awareness, you create form within the mind which is formless. You create a name which is nameless. Do you see? So, these are creations by thought forms that are roving around like waves, or rippling around like ripples in the pond. And sometimes th ere are whirlpools there in which

6. U S 86 - 22 you can get sucked. That's where it takes you to. You get sucked into materialism, worldly matters, and regard everything to be form and you give everything name. As I've said in some talk somewhere, if you had to call this chair a table, the ancients, then we would have been calling this a table, and the table you would have been calling a chair. So, where's Guruji sitting? Is he sitting on the table or is he sitting on the chair? You would say sitting on a chair, b ecause it has been drummed into you that this is a chair. So, how much independence have you had of your creative intelligence? What creativity has been there? I don't call this a chair. No. I just call it something which I'm sitting on and somewhere I rest my back. That's all. Just something which the physical senses just perceives. But the deeper perception would be wonderment. How all the molecules got together, the atomic structure of it and swirling around to bring about this formation. But I ignore the form. I'm more interested in the molecules, or the energy that keeps the molecules together. And that energy is Divinity. Do you see? And once you reach the area of Divinity then there's no form left and no name left. All the troubles in the world have been caused by name and form. Man has divided up this little planet Earth, this speck of dust, into so many countries. They've created barriers. So, this you call Germany and that you call England and that Finland and that Denmark and all th at. Man made creations. Because of greed they always want to expand their empires and what have you. Aquisitiveness. And with aquisitiveness comes the idea of preservation. You want to preserve what you have acquired. And to preserve it you go throug h all the negativity that is involved with preserving it. You develop attachment. You preserve the table, you develop attachment to the table, to the chair. You develop that attachment to people. There's a great difference between love and attachment. Love is something different. You develop attachment. With that comes greed, with that comes avarice, malice, and we can go on and make a long list of it. Do you see? And that is the reason why one country is warring against each other to preserve. And coming to the individual level they're trying to preserve their individuality, thinking in their very own limited way that my individuality is all important, which it is not. People feel they are the cen ter of the whole universe. They are not. Just a li ttle speck of dust floating around trying to find the center. Yes. And do you know the size of the universe? So many universes could be placed on a pin point. That is the size of the universe. And you become that pin point, and you are the center of th e universe. And not only the center of the universe, but the universe itself. That is your destiny: when you reach above the limitations of thinking yourself just to be a human being. Now, this does not, of course, imply arrogance or haughtiness. This implies total humility: that I am the center and the periphery, and all those spokes are but me. Those spokes are there to support the periphery, which in turn supports the center. And what are the spokes? All that is being perceived by the five senses . Those are the spokes. So, if those five senses are used in spite of their limitations, if they are used in its proper way see no evil, hear no evil, speak no e vil,

7. U S 86 - 22 that kind of thing then even your conception of name and form could assume a very grea t value, because name and form comes from the thinking processes. Where do the thinking processes come from? It comes from some source. And where does that source come from? Definitely not from tomato sauce. Tomato you call it. Unending, ad infinitum. Going back to the primal causeless cause. Do you see? So, if the cause, the primal causeless cause has no cause, then what cause have you to categorize things in name and form? Do you see? I love punning words, you know, and playing with them. Do you see? So, by all means name and form. Look at Tamaji. I call her Mataji, which means mother. Look at Mataji's painting. There is such a beautiful delicacy. Such a beautiful balance. Just with one leaf and a little background, she creates such a wonde rful atmosphere. There's one I saw of hers when we did the analysis of paintings. Some of you were on that course, weren't you? Most of you were. Just one blade of grass, plus a little background that captured creation. One blade of grass swaying in t he wind, capturing the manifestation of Divinity. For how could that blade of grass sway or bend if there was no wind or air. Do you see? I'm no artist, but I appreciate art. It touches me inside somewhere, I don't know where. I love art. As a matter of fact, I think I've put it wrongly: art loves me. There lies the real art of life. For the whole world is art, and let that art star t loving you and you just respond. You are in bed with your wife, okay. And, you know, you put your arms around her. Y ou're grown up people, I'm sure all of you have put your arms around your beloveds or wives or whatever. And she's doing it there now, putting... Amita, putting her arm around his neck. Of course his neck is a bit sore, that's why. Is it? Ahh... [END S IDE ONE] GURURAJ: You see. So, the man puts his arm around his beloved, and if she does not respond then it becomes a one way street. And if the man has a lot of animalism within him, then he would behave like an animal. If not he would say, "Oh, fo rget it. Tomorrow night." [laughter] But if she responds by embracing him too, how delightful it would be. Do you see the joy, the oneness, that is created? And, of course, most people, and statistics has proved this, that eighty seven and three quarte rs percent of people put off the lights. I'm talking of the bedroom scene now. Describing it. I can describe the room very vividly to you. It will see m like odd, but let's leave that out. They put out the lights. Now, when you put out the lights you do not see your beloved. It's dark. You have the touch sensation, but you do not see her. Where's her form? Where is her form, if you can't see

8. U S 86 - 22 the form? And you definitely cannot perceive form by touching. Somewhat, a bit, yes. But if you combine t ouching with seeing, then the form takes a more concrete shape. Right. For example, you are fast asleep in bed, and it's like a game. Let's play a game now. We're playing a game. It must not happen, must not happen. We're playing a game now. Right. You have fallen asleep and your wife has a friend. "Come on, let's play the fool tonight." Don't do it! And she tells her friend, "You know, I'll be in the room in the corner, you just sleep next to him." And he will still, in his half sleep state, put his arm around the other woman that has come to lie next to him. So, what value is there in touch? He's half dazed, as all people are, really. We all live in a daze, you know. An d that very daze, you know, is the greatest stumbling block for us to get out of the maze of life. And I don't mean M A I Z E. That's healthy. Corn. No wonder people are corny, they eat too much maize. But that maze M A Z E where you just go in and out, and you can't find your way out from name and form, that is the point . Do you see? So, you have a husband and wife, they know each other for so long, but yet a little joke is played on him, and in his half dream state or whatever, he does not seem to know or feel this is not my wife, it's some other woman. So where's form ? So, if the senses, and we can't do without them if we are human beings, if they are developed to a highly sensitive state, then greater recognition dawns upon us. And with that cognition... firstly it comes as cognition, and then slowly as the cognition becomes stronger there comes recognition of the cognition. Do you see? And that is how awareness develops, and then you can stand up and say there's no form, size, or shape. I live in it, yes. I have to accept it because I have th is body and I'm born into this world. But I am not going to lose my sense of knowing, realizing within myself that I am forever free and formless and nameless. Who calls God God? Huh? Did God shout down from there to say I am God? We call Him God, or Ishwara, or Allah, o r... We gave Him names. We called Him names. [LAUGHTER] Do you see? So be in the world with good behavior, being fully conscious, being fully aware of things around you. And that depends a lot upon the awareness that is within you. And that's what I teach. How to develop the awareness. I don't say develop awareness, I show you how to develop awareness. When it comes to the push I even use a strap to bring you to that awareness. Yes. I think I might have told you this story. You might have listene d to a tape. Two tapes were made on the subject about me and my guru, swami Pavitrananda. Now, four o'clock in the morning my job was to light the hookahs. Many of you might not know what a hookah is, but a hookah is a pipe. It's a pipe so big, and it has tubes running from it. You can have four or five, so you can have a communal hookah smoking party. And in there you have molasses, and water which acts as a filter, because smoke is drawn through the water, and then you have the tobacco on top with a piece of live coal, and that's how, you know, it's lit. And my job was to light them in the morning for all those retired swamis. They enjoyed the s it

9. U S 86 - 22 around and chat with the hookahs and... [LAUGHTER] And me being the baby, you know, youngster, one of t hese wise old sadhus and sannyasins... They're not actually sannyasins, they are assassins of themselves. Not sannyasin. Sannyasins means a recluse, you know, one that is withdrawn from the world, and that wears all those orange colored robes, you know, and that has taken all kinds of vows and things. Vows are actually useless. Never take a vow. Never take a vow. It never works out because your mind will be thinking on the vow: I shall not pluck this flower. And your mind will go to that flower all t he time. But condition the mind in such a way where you personally feel, I should not touch the beauty of this flower. And when I mean flower I mean man, woman, all those things that's involved with it. So, I used to light the hookahs for all the swamis. And, of course, to light them I had to, you know, puff to see if it burns. What a wonderful enlightened way to learn to smoke. [LAUGHTER] And I've been doing it for forty years. [LAUGHTER] Right. So you see, my beloveds, develop that sensitivity. D evelop the awareness of what your sensitivity is all about, because every person thinks he is sensitive. Really not so. You might be stubborn, not sensitive. Yes. Develop the awareness, the fineness of your five senses. Very fine. You must have read in papers that the senses can become so fine that a blind child or a person could touch and tell you what color it is, the color of the object that it's touching. Look at the sensitivity of a dog. The master is still two blocks away and he'll run to the gate. That's sensitivity, acuteness. And then, so many other things. Right. So, awareness you have to develop in sensitivity, but not forgetting the main factor that I am just name and form and very very temporary. Name is because they have given me th is name, and I am this form which is going to disintegrate. For whatever is born must die. Of course, what happens after death and how the body dissolves itself into its various elements, that's a different subject. So, this body is temporary, for our p urposes of this talk, so use it in its proper manner in its sensitivity. If you have feet to walk on, why must you use your hands? Do you see my point? So, use every part of yourself in its right way, right form, and develop the awareness. But never forget that I am Divine, because Divinity, as I've said a million times before, is omniscient, omnipresent. It's present there in you in every cell o f your body, functioning all the time, and making you function through the limitations of your mind. And the mind is very limited. You might have a flood of water coming through, but if the channel is narrow then the water will just trickle through. It will flo w through. So yet behind there's such a reservoir. Now, get in touch with that reservoir through your spiritual practices and let it flood, so that it could break away the barriers of that channel and flood you with the essence of Divinity. Do you see ho w beautiful it works? Hm? Same thing applies in communication in human relationships. Do you know what word a person likes the most? We have made a lot of researches in these things. I've studied since I was a little child. Life has been nothing but a study to me.

10. U S 86 - 22 Do you know what word people like the most in their lives is their own names. Did you know that? For example, you meet someone that knows you, and he just momentarily forgets your name, you know then you'd feel a bit... or if your name is Tom, you know, and you call him John, do you know he will feel a bit taken aback. He'd feel that yet, oh, it's my friend he doesn't even remember my name. So, you see the importance he attaches to his name? If I forget a name, I say, "Hello, fellow, ho w is it, old chap? How are you doing?" I don't know why they say how are you doing in America? Of course, in England they say "how are you" or "how do you do," which is also very wrong. How do you do? Is it any of your business to ask a person, how do you do? [laughter] You do things in the way you like. [Vatsan?] discovered eighty four different postures. Many people don't know about that. It's a different subject. [LAUGHTER] Only limited to people over eighty. How do you do? How are you doing? Doing what? Tell me first what I'm doing, and then I will tell you how I'm doing it. Language is so funny, isn't it? Language is funny. So, the word people love the best is their own names, eighty odd percent of the time. They love their names becaus e they're involved in name and form. That is why. Now, if that is used in a proper channel of loving your name, then that would mean you are loving yourself if you can identify yourself with your name. For example, when I was born the name that was given to me was Purushottam. Say it. Anyone. Purushottam, that's right. It means the best among men. Purusho, man or God. Huh? Ottam means the best. And if you have that thought constantly in mind Purushottam then you can become the best of men. Do yo u see? But it depends how you view it, how you use it. Some people I give spiritual names to it's for a purpose. Firstly, it's because they deserve it, and secondly I want them to strive after that quality that is within them and expand it. And then, of course, I don't just choose any, it has to come to me. It dawns, you know, the person's face, and then the sound just dawns upon me. Then I would feel obliged to give the name. So, even if you believe in name and forms, just don't believe it. Belief is a lso connected to perception and conception. And people believe in a lot of things and they could be false beliefs. The idea we aim at is to activate that thought, which we might for the moment call belief, and bring it into reality, so that this individua l reality merges away in that universal reality. So whatever the body does is beautiful, as beautiful as the essence that you are made of. Oh, wondrous creatures of this world, beloveds, it's great! I never speak from book knowledge, I speak of experien ce. If I can experience it so can you. There's no difference. Same. Same thing that is within you is within me. Same, same, same. Perhaps I've reached a ten story building. I might have reached the tenth story, you are on the second, third, fourth, f ifth, sixth. And when I see you coming quite near my reach on the ninth, I'll come down and pull you up. I'll say, "Come on, boy. Don't be afraid. Here is the unknown which will become known to you in a flash." A flash of the moment it shall all be kn own, and nescience and ignorance will disappear as name and form would disappear; then really would you appear as the immortal, eternal energy or whatever you want to call it.

11. U S 86 - 22 Time flies, doesn't it? Or do we fly, huh? Think about that. Is time flying o r are we flying? Think about it. Tell me tomorrow. **** END ****


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