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1. US 86- 31 ASHRAM TALK GURURAJ: ...and of course the first group of psychologists, psychiatrists, bio physicists, physicists of the medical faculties, and what have you. The second group there was of artists, and all the allied arts such as writing, and painting, and sculpturing and all that. So the topic of the subject was on art. The first topic in the first group was on psychology and psychiatry. Here we had...Vidya, what was the first session? VIDYA AND ROOPA: On dreams, personal growth. [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Personal growth. And the second one? The second one was on the life and teachings of Ramakrishna. Right. Now, any of you pick a topic, and it's not going to be a lecture from me. Of course, I'll jump in in between. And let the discussion be amongst all of you. And of course I'm with you in it. Good. So what topic shall we choose tonight? NIRMALA: Of those two? GURURAJ: No, no, no. Those are past. I meant I just told about those, mother, to give you an idea of what has been happening. MERRILL: Guruji, there was some interest in buying a larger house, or renting a larger house and trying to base our courses in that. And kind of building a home base little by little in the United States some place. Maybe some people would like to discuss that issue. GURURAJ: Yes. Discuss that. Well, before they start discussing it, I'm prepared to spend six months in America and six months elsewhere every year. Good. I'll be needing a cook to cook for me. I'll be needing someone to look after various odds and ends. And, of course, a secretary that could take dictation and do typing and work on the books. And, of course, a week end retreat for people. And there would be pujas. And a puja means, you know, prayers and worshiping, chanting and many, many other things which we can't do on a course of four or five days. So it would be a running thing with many, many things introduced. We could also get some time from psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors and people in various fields that would devote a few hours a day. And they can be seen without any charge whatsoever, because I can

2. US 86- 31 find voluntary professional people in those particular fields that you could consult with. Now, of course, I leave it over t o you. But why I've said this is to give you a pointer of what could be done. And then those that are working during the week they can always come for the weekend and spend say Friday night til, you know, Sunday evening with me, on one condition, that you do not sleep at all those two nights. We'll keep you going. PANU: We don't sleep anyway when we're here. GURURAJ: Yes. So, there are great, Merrill, there are great possibilities in that. And as a matter of fact, Mataji whispered in my ear the other day that when you come to St. Louie, you know, we'll go into deeper details. But I'm glad you brought up the question so we could share the ideas of everyone present here. So, whatever ideas you have, please put it forward. The more central the place the better. By that I mean as far as population is concerned, where the locals can also come, and also where transport is concerned. You know, airports and things like that. Carry on. Yes, by all means. And then we can have (Oh, sorry.) we can have, you know, art classes for people that are interested in art. We have a wonderful teacher here, right, that could... And then we could have cookery classes, right, like Indian cookery. Latta would be glad to come over to do that. Then we can have Japanese cooking. You could learn a lot from Mataji. And, of course, the beautiful tea ceremony, so graceful. And then we can have Eastern dancing classes. And I've got the people for that. So, a lot can be done. I'll keep you occupied twenty four hours a day. Now, you guys work out the plans how we can materialize it. NIRMALA: Guruji, you said you would be willing to spend six months, that's in the United States... GURURAJ: The summer months, yeah. NIRMALA: And six months elsewhere. By elsewhere did you mean South Africa, or like England, or are you coming out of South Africa now? GURURAJ: I'm not leaving South Africa. It's very difficult to uproot yourself. For example, you know, we live in South Africa for thirty years now. And the family, you know, has the relatives there and their friend circle. It would be very, very difficult, especially for Latta, who's my wife, if you don't know her name. Everyone calls her Ma, as these people that has been to Cape Town will tell you. So, Ma, of course, wouldn't like just to uproot herself. It's a different country, a different

3. US 86- 31 climate, and she doesn't speak English too well, so that would be another disadvantage. Although she could get along in two, three, syllable words and could understand and make herself understandable. But if she should speak the type of English I speak she wouldn't be able to understand. That's no problem. I can always be the interpreter. NIRMALA: So, you'd be in South Africa six months of the year, and in this country six months? GURURAJ: Six months. And in between I might flip away to England a few weeks and to Spain, Denmark, you know? I'll sort of divide it up. But you could have say anything between five and six months to put it roughly. NIRMALA: Have you a preference for the part of the country, the climate or anything? GURURAJ: I'd like to have a good warm climate, that's for sure. Not your snows. And all those various things. I mean you know America better than I know. And you'll never find a climate like South Africa, like Cape Town. Right. But of course I'm not very fussy. You know I take what comes, and I can adapt myself to anything. Would someone take a chair to guide the hands that go up? Would you please? Is there a spare chair somewhere? ROOPA: Yeah, right here. Let's see all those hands going up. Jeff. Jeff. JEFF: Am I called on? ROOPA: Yeah, you're called on. JEFF: We have so many more children coming in, I'm thinking of the advantages of having a yard and some kind of permanent organization to handle the children. The cooking would be so much vastly improved. Chetan made a very sensible suggestion that we needn't even think of a colossal down payment, we can rent or lease with the option to buy after a year. I personally have seen many centers across the United States that are taking over an old Victorian house, or I've heard of one that was sort of in a shopping district. Somebody the other day...I was talking with someone who mentioned some building in a almost, an old warehouse, and they said it was reconverted into an Ashram. It needn't be you know... The obvious place at first I thought was possible, the east coast, like Philadelphia. And then, I don't know, I would imagine the real estate values would be very expensive there. Another thing is possibly near St. Louis. Laura

4. US 86- 31 brought up the objection that the air fares are very cheap out of Chicago, and sometimes tend to be a little bit more expensive in St. Louis. Someone, I forgot who, had outside of Chicago, and I forgot the name of the town? VOICES: Kankakee. JEFF: That there was a huge inn for sale. A Frank Lloyd Wright house that they're trying to figure out a tax, you know, a non profit organization possibly to take it over. PRIYA: That may be available for rent, too, since it's unoccupied at this particular time. We might be able to get that. JEFF: And my sense of urgency is to have a place where there's a sense of the vibrations, of the habit of holding retreats and that kind of thing now. To have a couple of, you know...however long to build up some sense of community. GURURAJ: Yes, that is very true. I do agree with you because we should have a large enough place, say about thirty or forty rooms, where we would find many people that want to stay there, right, and they would have children, and we could even run a private school there. That is possible. And I am a very good teacher, by the way. JEFF: Let me... One more thing. In groups I've seen before there's usually one couple that agrees to live in the place, and basically manages it with help. Guruji was talking about having a staff to help him when he comes to this country. But there was always a group...the one in Boston, for example, there's a Zendo in Boston that started out quite small in a Victorian house, it is absolutely flourishing. They don't have any huge Sugar Daddy. They put out a newspaper. They have got, you know, extremely active. They're holding retreats constantly, both for new people...initiating new people into their, you know, the meditation group, and then there are established people who would come to regularly scheduled retreats. And as far as I know, they work out fine. I know at least five or six or a dozen of these things across the country. GURURAJ: And, of course, the months when I'm not around there's always places that people are looking for to hold retreats. So therefore, you have a place of thirty, forty rooms, then we can hire out and that would be a means of income. ROOPA: Amita.

5. US 86- 31 AMITA: I was gonna say on the east coast a lot of the schools are now bare and they look for people to take over the schools. And I've seen a lot of schools converted into residences. GURURAJ: Ah. Wonderful. VOICES: Public schools? Yes. It's those population [?????] GURURAJ: When you say east coast, what do you mean? New York? VOICE: No. PRASEELA: It's probably that way everywhere. It's that way in Chicago, too. VOICE: But it would be far easier to have something like the Frank Lloyd Wright house where it's already divvied up into sort of rooms for sleeping, and it's already got the kitchen and everything. You try to convert a school and that's a lot of construction and stuff. VOICE: Big capital expense, too. It's true. ROOPA: Yeah, Nirmala. NIRMALA: Boston would be an excellent place as far as the population for that kind of thing, spiritual things, but it gets a great deal of snow and it's cold. It's even colder than where we are. PRASEELA: But not in the summer. VOICE: Plus we don't have any meditators in Boston. VOICE: Yeah, it isn't very central, is it? NIRMALA: Well, nobody's taken it there, really. We have all kinds of other meditators.

6. US 86- 31 PRASEELA: Yeah, competition. There's not much competition in Kankakee. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] is on the Kankakee river. GURURAJ: Ah, another requirement that is important. Thank you for talking about the river. Preferably, I'd like a place that has a running stream or a brook or a river. And I promise you I will convert it into a second Lourdes. You have heard of Lourdes in France, where people go and bathe and get healed? And we'll have people flocking from all over the world to come there. MERRILL: Would it be possible then, or reasonable not to have it around where Vidya is living? GURURAJ: Yes, if the price is right. And I think I would prefer that very much, because she is my right hand man. NIRMALA: Well, doesn't it snow there? GURURAJ: Ask her. She's only there for ten days. VIDYA: You misunderstood me, I was talking about... NIRMALA: Oh, Pennsylvania. Yes, it's get snow. GURURAJ: Well, that wouldn't really matter too much. You see one advantage is this, when you have summer here, we have winter in other countries. And when you have winter here, we have summer in other countries. So that's fine. So when it comes to your winter, I get on my bicycle. MERRILL: Did I misunderstand? I was asking if it would be wise to have the Ashram near where Vidya lives in Pennsylvania, or could we consider other places?

7. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: You can consider other places. Oh, definitely. I know Pennsylvania is very, very expensive. And, but you never know, there might be something available. One does have to scout around. So keep your eyes and ears open and you never know. And then there's another thing where some people would like to give away a place as a tax write off. That's another avenue that could be explored. This is what I was told happens in America, I'm not sure about it. So that's another avenue that could be explored. VOICE: Jeff. JEFF: Real quickly. You know, Guruji, I think you visited [Guyguzatsu?] up in the Catskills? That was a donation. And also the New York Zendo in downtown New York city was a donation, I think, in the mid sixties. They manage, I think you met him. [Adoroshee?]? GURURAJ: Yes, [Adoroshee?]. I was his guest in New York, itself. And [Adoroshee?] didn't want me to go. He said, "No, you must stay a few days here." He got so interested. I spoke his language. For example, he asked me, "Those beads you are wearing, what do they mean?" I said, "I don't know." Zen language. [LAUGHTER] So he was absolutely fascinated. And in his yard there is a stone, ya, [Adoroshee's?] house there is a big boulder. And he said, "No one has ever sat on this stone or touched it, but would you please sit with me on the stone to have a photograph taken?" So we had a photograph there. I believe he's passed away. JEFF: Ado? [Sawya]? passed. You might be talking about, was it the younger man or the older man? GURURAJ: The older man. JEFF: That was [Sawya?] GURURAJ: That was [Sawya?]? Yeah, but he was called [Adoroshee?] Ado, I think, means elder or something. And then, of course, [Sawya?] might have taken over. I don't know. JEFF: [Sawya?] was the older man. Ado was his disciple and very stern faced.

8. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Yes. Well, it's been quite a few years ago. I don't remember too well. As a matter of fact, I can't even remember what I had for lunch today. You live for the moment and when the moment is gone you forget the moment. NIRMALA: Perhaps it's better forgotten. [LAUGHTER] PRASEELA: Some of us are having a hard time with it. JEFF: Forgive me for being redundant on it, but [Diwasatzu?] is a gigantic complex. And that was all done through hard intention and dedication among their following. And they managed to get an enormous sum of money put together, and a lot of times looking like didn't know how they were going to do it. And it's almost too beautiful. You know, it was such a beautiful setting. GURURAJ: Which place is this? JEFF: [Diwasatzu?], way up in the Catskills. GURURAJ: Oh, yes. I've been there. I've been there. And they actually prepared... You were with me, Roopa. There were about six of us, five or six of us. And they prepared a wonderful dinner for us, and we meditated in the hall. And then something came to my mind and I, what did I write down? ROOPA: Now here. Nowhere is now here. GURURAJ: Yes. And funny enough the same word, which I'd never read about even or never met him, was in one of his articles, or something like that. You see how you catch on to a thought of another person? So I need memory boxes to be with me. NIRMALA: Was that Muktananda's place? ROOPA: No, no, no. NIRMALA: Whatever happened to Muktananda's place?

9. US 86- 31 ROOPA: It was on the way back. It was the same trip. On the way back. GURURAJ: Oh, it was a beautiful that, with trees, and oh, lovely. JEFF: Can I say one more thing, since were gonna...? In Los Angeles the L.A. Zendo, the way they started out in a very... slightly rundown part of Los Angeles, it now is worth tons of money. [But then it gets?] slightly rundown the [Myzumi Roshe?], the one who ran it, he ran a gardening business at first to try to keep the place going. When he started getting students, they brought down kind of a slightly beat up old house. Over the space of about five years they made it into a beautiful Zendo. They bought the house next, adjacent to that building, reconverted the inside of the building so that there was a satsang room, there was a place to meditate, there was a separate initiation room, there was an upstairs room. You know, there was enough...the bathroom facilities were no problem, even when there were sometimes twenty or thirty people staying there. And the teacher, [Rosheyen?] ended up having a beautiful house next door that became his residence. Now we need not go that way, but that just shows it's very, I mean, more than possible, it's certain with a genuine desire among the chelas to have something like that. It's not a difficult thing to do. NIRMALA: I thought of a good location. I mean, it might be a good location, halfway between New York and Philadelphia and then you could draw people from both sides. That would end up in either eastern Pennsylvania or New Jersey. There's some parts of New Jersey... JEFF: Well, as long as it's near airline routes, because we have a nationwide following. It just has to be near cheap airline routes. [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: That is true. That is very true. Somewhere near Litchfield area is also very good. [LAUGHTER] RO OPA: Yeah, it is. It's a very good location. Excellent location. NIRMALA: It gets plenty of snow. GURURAJ: And there's a man made pond there. I'm joking, mother, you know that.

10. US 86- 31 ROOPA: He's teasing you. NIRMALA: I can't think of any place, really. The prices there have gone sky high. GURURAJ: Yes, on the east coast it's very expensive, I believe. NIRMALA: Any place even reasonably close to New York is apt to be. MERRILL: And we don't have so many meditators in the New York area either. GURURAJ: None. We have never really got started there. The maximum amount of meditators we have, I mean our stronghold had been the Midwest, right, because of people like Vidya and Praseela and Priya and Gomila, and sorry if I do forget names...but you know? VOICE: I think St. Louis is actually a pretty good area. And usually you can get, you know, from Chicago a thirty five dollar one way air fare. GURURAJ: There's only one thing I'm afraid of about St. Louis is this, that they might change the name to St. Gururaj. [LAUGHTER] PRIYA: I think we should cross that bridge when we come to it. [LAUGHTER] VOICE: You know we have a lot of meditators in St. Louis. Maybe they can sort of keep their eyes open for some sort of feasible property, and once we get something in mind it's a lot easier to raise funds. GURURAJ: Very good. Now...now having been in business for many, many years and in various fields of endeavor, there are some things that must be taken into consideration. It is this, that the sight must be right and easily accessible, as Jeff has said, and everyone else has said, so it would be easy for a person to hop on a plane and come for the weekend kind of thing. Then if it's an old place it requires a lot of money to do it up, that's another big consideration. Right. And when you have a place done up, you got to have the cash for it. Right. And if it's a place say thirty, forty

11. US 86- 31 rooms...well, I don't know your rentals here, but I do know that a little apartment which Vidya took over because Sujay got transferred to his new job, and because they had to move from Bourbonnais, Bobonaus, Babunaus, Babonus, oh, sorry. An apartment. You know, you call it apartment, we call it flats in England. Fifteen hundred dollars a month. You see how expensive it is? So what I'm trying to say, the point I'm trying to make is this, that even if we take a place over on a rental basis, we have to consider the rent and how we are going to pay the rent. ROOPA: Jasmini. JASMINI: What about if you got a place that you could, sort of, put a down payment on? And as you have suggested there would be...if we sort of rent out the place to other people. And then you also have a place as the base ground where people could meet [??????????] as a retreat, and you can just, you are pumping the money back into the place. You could use the place and doing [jumbo?] sales and all different things. And everybody knows that that is a place that they can always go for a weekend, a day, a weeks holiday, anything. And they know they can go there and [?????] up in it, instead of giving it to these... GURURAJ: That is very true, Jasmini. But as in any place that could produce income, you know, it does take time to build up. For example, I know when I came to South Africa from India I started off as an accountant auditor, here you call it a C.P.A., don't you? Right. So I started off, there in South Africa we call it a C.A., Chartered Accountant, and here it's Certified Public Accountant, yes. Same thing, but a different...right. And it took me a long time to build up the practice, as in any practice. It could be a medical practice or whatever, and it took a long time to build up. But now during that time, how to make ends meet? I had few clients from the beginning. And I'll tell you what, it's a personal story. What I did now , how am I going to build up a practice, I'm totally unknown? So what I did I joined various organizations, like the United Hindu Association, and this association, and that association, which I knew were mostly of business people. And, of course, I used to partake in all the meetings and inspire them and give lovely talks, and people would just look up and say, "Ohh, this boy's got something." You know, things like that. And then got one client and another client and another. And that's how it built up, until I had a staff of thirty eight people working for me in the accounting practice. But in spite of that it took a long time to build up. But how are you going to survive? VOICE: We'll join the United Hindu Association. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: And write their books. Very good. And I'll have to go to university for another two, three years to get up to date with the laws that has been changed, because the last time I wrote up a set of books, must have been about twenty

12. US 86- 31 five odd years ago. Laws change every time. And even if I have to check up on some company law, so many changes it's sky and earth. Various forms of taxation and all that, you know? VOICE: One big source of income we'd have is the money we'd save on these courses. We wouldn't have to pay seventeen or twenty dollars a night for rooms. JEFF: You would, but it would be going towards the house. VOICE: Yeah, that's right. It would be going towards the house. And if we had two or three or four of those a year, that would [mean?] a lot of money. VOICE: Rather than holding the courses at the retreats, if we held them all there the money generated for room and board would more than enough to pay. VOICE: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. ROOPA: On the other hand would you get as many people coming? JEFF: Yes. VOICE: Sure, probably more. VOICE: Sure, providing that you didn't have courses in the local areas, yeah. VOICE: I'm sure we would. First of all we wouldn't have to have so...we could have more of them, and not so many large ones. JEFF: And if that's the only way they could attend the courses. VOICE: Yeah, if you still have courses in the East and in the West and the middle, they're not going to do to [St. Louis?].

13. US 86- 31 RAMU: Roopa, I think you would the first year. I really do. [??????] one fourth of the United States, you take a look at our Thanksgiving courses where people come in from all over the United States to attend the Thanksgiving course. PRASEELA: Yeah, but six months worth? I mean we gotta pay...if we're gonna have this for six months and we've got everybody together for two weeks... JEFF: Well how much money...? VOICE: Well, realistically, we don't have six months of decent weather anyway. You're looking at more like four months. PRASEELA: Still we pay seventeen dollars a week for one week, and then we'd have to support the thing for... VOICE: No, we pay seventeen dollars a night for one person. ROOPA: One of the big questions...I think one of the things we need is we need to have the people who are willing to work at this. Not only to work to find the land, but to commit themselves to being the caretakers of the place, because the whole twelve months of the year is a big job. RAMU: Roops, I think we do have a caretaker. GURURAJ: It won't pay. VOICE: You need an operating staff, custodian, as you say, a cook, a secretary, someone to clean the building. GURURAJ: It won't pay to have someone working on a ordinary basis. You got to pay a salary. I tell you the reason why. Firstly, they would think that they were doing you a favor. Secondly, what you spend on the boarding and lodging and other expenses. And they need spending money to buy lipstick. (Oh, by the way, the main ingredient of lipstick is rat's tails. So those of you that use it think about it.) Right. So nevertheless not paying a salary and just having them there will work out more expensive than paying them a salary.

14. US 86- 31 VOICE: Ramu, I didn't get your point. RAMU: Well, I know for many, many years that Baloo, who's a meditator on the east coast, has often dreamed of having an ashram, and he is a carpenter by profession. And one of his visions has always been to move to the ashram and do maintenance and carpentry work on an ashram. GURURAJ: Um, huh. JEFF: Guruji, I'm very hesitant to perhaps disagree with a hired person to take care of the place. I, personally, had worked for free scrubbing toilets for several, you know, running, you know, these Zendo places, years ago. The place was spotlessly maintained and there was no paid staff. This was part of their duties, part of their service, to maintain the building. GURURAJ: Yes, it does not always work unless you make people into sannyasins that has no family ties and nothing. Then it would work, otherwise not. DOREENA: There's an ashram or group down in the Bahamas and also up in Canada that charges thirty dollars a night room and board, and those that are not able to pay work there. They come there whenever they can. Anyone, anyone, can come there. And if they don't have the money to pay, then they work. GURURAJ: Then they work. It would take me a month to teach them work for two days, okay. Will that pay? NIRMALA: It would seem to have a problem that where you want with the ashram should be near an airport, then the land and houses are expensive there because it's commutable to a big city. And where you can get cheap property, it's hard to get to. JEFF: That's why areas around St. Louis is a good compromise. That's driving distance perhaps to Chicago, and land values around St. Louis are probably one of the best buys around a fairly, you know, cultured, fairly big city. It happens t o be one of the few places in the United States, I think, isn't that?, people still living there? It was possible to get very nice

15. US 86- 31 places when I was there two years ago. It was a depressed market. [INAUDIBLE] had huge beautiful houses, when St. Louis had more money, that were very difficult to sell. There isn't a lot of industry there. NIRMALA: Isn't it very hot in the summer? JEFF: What's that? NIRMALA: Isn't is very hot in the summer? VOICE: It's about like this. JEFF: Yes. It's Midwestern conditions. VOICE: Very hot in the summer. JEFF: But you're not going to find some ideal place, unless we go to the Caribbean or something. GURURAJ: Yeah, oh, we could always have portable fans, people carrying around, you know. NIRMALA: How many meditators from St. Louis are there? Are there more there than around Chicago? JEFF: Well, Laura and I are close enough to be considered among the group, so... MERRILL: There are probably twelve or fifteen... GURURAJ: Can I rub that off, or is it still required? ROOPA: Yes, of course. No, you can rub things off. GURURAJ: You people carry on talking.

16. US 86- 31 ROOPA: ...wearing the microphone. And we will bring the board up closer so you can reach the mike. GURURAJ: You people carry on talking. I just want to... ROOPA: Do you people want to discuss this for the rest of this meeting, or do you want to, I mean...? We should come up with something like a person who could look after things, or something like that. PRASEELA: Let's come up with a staff first, and worry about the place later. ROOPA: Yeah, that's what I mean. Find the staff first. GURURAJ: No. Find the place first, then the staff. The staff is easy. ROOPA: Vidya, would you like to say something? VIDYA: Yeah, I just wanted to clear one thing out. Having dealt with finances for the last several years, it seems to me the first thing we need to look at is some kind of plan of how we're going to do it financially, some kind of approach. Like I said, I don't even have money to put out the newsletter next month. And since we're looking at that kind of a financial base, I think we need to look at how we would pull this off. And then once we have a plan, then we can look for a place to have it. But we've got to have some kind of approach. GURURAJ: Don't watch me. Listen to her. VIDYA: So, maybe we could form a committee to study different ways that, you know, we could draw our resources together. JEFF: Now, I don't know the situation, but the first thing comes to mind is what would happen if there was a place available for the November course, and the money that people would pay to come to the November course in the Midwest

17. US 86- 31 as a possible of beginning...of renting the place. In other words, you know what I'm saying? And, of course, then the danger is always running out of money. But what would be the possibility of something like that? VIDYA: Well are you saying just go out and sign a lease for a year, and then hope that we have enough money off the course to cover it? JEFF: Not quite that impractical. What Guruji just said that the staff and that kind of thing would come... How on Earth would we ever get...? How much money would you need to guarantee...? You'd need ten or twelve thousand dollars at the minimum, to guarantee payment for a year, alright, for a year's lease. I'm thinking about taking the plunge. If you get a place, let's say for four months and start holding retreats there. If it busts the worst we've done is we're out whatever money we've put in it for three or four months, and we've had our sessions there. You understand? I know there is always the possibility of a disaster. Right? But right now we're facing a disaster by doing that now. Well, we're facing a disaster now unless we have a center established in the next five years, we've got a disaster brewing. VIDYA: Yeah, now, I'm all for a center, don't misunderstand me at all. I've been dreaming of that for years. It's just you know we just have to have financial...I'm just saying let's financially deciding how we're going to do it. JEFF: Alright. But the money that would have gone into renting, you know, let's say his intensive in St. Louis and a Midwest course here as a possible...I don't know how much it is, a thousand, I don't know how much, twelve hundred, fifteen hundred, that you get is a possible base for renting a place. Even if short term. See if it looks like people are going to go for that. VOICE: I guess Jeff was saying let's [????] the financial plan would be to take the room and board money for our courses. JEFF: That's what I'm saying. VOICE: and that what would make the initial... VOICE: What happens to the money that should go home with Gururaj?

18. US 86- 31 JEFF: He would take that. That would stay constant. But I don't know the figures. How much money you actually spend on these places, you know, for the room and board. VOICES: In order to do something like that, the place has to be more or less set up and ready to go. We don't have a lot to put into it. VOICE: And we have to look for some [???] for you people... PRIYA: And we have to find somebody to do the cooking, or else we have to hire caterers. VIDYA: Well, at the Thanksgiving course we usually have fifty people in full attendance, plus miscellaneous children. So it has to accommodate probably sixty people. JEFF: Do you know approximately how much money that is for room and board that's usual? VOICE: Yeah, it's about four thousand dollars, we probably pay for room and board. VIDYA: Roughly one hundred and seventy dollars per person. Between a hundred and fifty and a hundred and seventy per person room and board, then multiply that times fifty. VOICE: Well, that's what I mean... VIDYA: Okay, we're paying here a hundred and fifty... VOICE: Does that include Gururaj's part?... VIDYA: No. I've been giving you you're room and board figures... VOICE: So, that's six thousand dollars...

19. US 86- 31 VOICE: Yeah, that's a lot of money... VOICE: What about utility costs?... VIDYA: I mean we pay some big hefty bills. VOICE: That's Jeff's argument. VOICE: That would be our initial financial thrift plan. JEFF: Fifteen hundred dollars a month having a large place for rent. That's reasonable in St. Louis. Fifteen hundred a month for a large place. VOICE: What I see in the beginning we could hold our meetings perhaps in a public place. [INAUDIBLE] And then use that as... use the money, that is we kind of patch it up in the beginning. We have people sleeping in different homes, various places. PRIYA: And people have to bring their own linens. VOICE: Yeah, and people bring their own linens for the first year or so. We may not have the meeting room in our, what do you call it? JEFF: We don't have any choice. Unless we do it... VOICE: It's got to be all or nothing. Otherwise, we're still renting things. VIDYA: Joy has something she wants to say. JOY: Well, in Kankakee there's another retreat house that's off of one of the routes, and it's a small place on a lot of land. But I don't believe their expenses are a lot. And they... In our area they hold a lot of one day retreats. Maybe some

20. US 86- 31 church organization would like to have a one day retreat and there are a couple of people that run it. So, it's probably feasible to obtain the money. But I agree with Vidya that I think you should have a goal in mind, at least for the first six months of utilities, the rent for six months. At least have six months where you know that that money is going to be there, and it's on paper. VOICE: I think you have to have more than that. You have to have a couple of years ahead of time, because you usually si gn a lease of a year. Whenever you go in business you have to add expenses. JEFF: But that will never do it. Imagine trying to get together a hundred thousand. VOICE: We have six thousand dollars for one course. VOICES: You have to have cash up front....They want a security deposit...Probably five grand... We need a benefactor... Somebody play the lottery and win big... VOICE: We could have three courses a year at six thousand dollars each. That's eighteen thousand dollars. Pretty guaranteed income, isn't it? GURURAJ: Who says you are going to make six thousand dollars on a course? VOICE: Let's take a reasonable figure and see what it is. VIDYA: Okay, you'll get your fifty people when we have only one course. When Guruji comes at Thanksgiving. VOICE: A year? VIDYA: Well, no, at Thanksgiving. In the summertime when we bring him through the east coast, the Midwest, and west coast, then you only have about thirty people per course. VOICE: Then that's all we'd need.

21. US 86- 31 VOICE: What do you get on a [?????????] course? You get three thousand. So, that's nine additional thousand plus [????] thousand a year... VOICE: But if you have a place and you hold additional courses, no, you're not going to get that. But if you have a place and you hold all your courses there, then from what you've said we have fifteen thousand a year to spend. VOICE: Exactly. VOICE: And we could give discounts... VOICE: If you want to make estimates more conservative that's fine, plan ahead. VIDYA: I don't think your gonna find all those people coming three times a year to a course, because they won't be able to afford all those air fares. VOICE: [What'd?] you get here now? VOICE: We'll give discounts. VIDYA: It's like Pennsylvania people don't have to fly in an airplane, so they, you know? VOICE: That's true... VIDYA: They won't come [three?] times a year. VOICE: So let's discount the numbers. VIDYA: Yeah, you have to count fewer numbers.

22. US 86- 31 VOICE: Let's say we can guarantee ourselves ten thousand dollars a year income without doing anything extra. PRIYA: I still think we're coming up real short in the money department. I think there's got to be some other way, you know. VOICE: Well, this is a start and then we can talk about a [???] year. Merrill's saying we have ten thousand at least. JEFF: Well, Guruji's saying what's the other way to raise money? VOICE: That's ten thousand in cash flow. If you have something else ahead of time. GURURAJ: Look, you need five thousand dollars a month to run a place of that nature. The rest can go to the profits account. That's what you need for the start, talking as a businessman. Right. VOICE: Well, you're talking a thousand for just rent, let alone expenses... GURURAJ: Where are you going to get a thirty, forty room house for a thousand rand a month? Where you gonna get that? VOICES: Utilities...Linens...Beds...Operating expenses...The list could go on...And those are fixed costs... GURURAJ: You know what you can also look out for is a hotel that is going bankrupt. VIDYA: What about forming a task force to study, you know, ways of doing this? A task force to study how other groups have gotten started. How they financially pulled it off. VOICES: I nominate Jeff... Jeff, you seem to know a lot about it...I second that nomination...

23. US 86- 31 JEFF: And I would like to find a Realtor. A lawyer with experience in property management. And I would like to have somebody with experience in banking. And what else? Also management, hotel management, or management of something like that. VOICE: Can I ask a question? GURURAJ: Are you going to get a hotel manager under the salary of two and a half thousand a month? [I got?] thirty thousand. VOICES: No, he's just talking about the...Just for the task force... JEFF: [I request?] a task force because I don't have the expertise of... ROOPA: Well, what you may have to do is just find them yourself and get information from them. That's all. Find people who are good at that. JEFF: Chetanji's in real estate. ROOPA: Yeah. VOICE: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of... NIRMALA: Who's in real estate? VOICES: Chetan. VIDYA: So, the task force would consist of a group of meditators who would then break down the job and use... JEFF: Yes, who have specific expertise. And there's more than enough of that in our meditators. VOICE: That makes perfect sense.

24. US 86- 31 JEFF: Of course, it does. VOICE: I mean I'm a technician, so I'm doing this. And other people can use their talents to apply... JEFF: Right, and all we have to do is as a group oversee to make a list of exactly the information we need. Then each person [?????] their specialty and they research it, and we come back together and discuss it in an intelligent way. GURURAJ: Look. Let me give you a practical example now. Vidya has seen it and so has Rajesh and Jasmini and Amita and Jammu has seen it. I was the founder of a society, The Cape [Indo Inter ?] cultural Society, in Cape Town. It is right behind my house. A [Mr. Batel?] his name was Mr. [Batel?] he bought out a farm. It took him seven years to have it cut up into plots. But the condition of cutting it up and making a township was this, that he had to have a community center, you know, for the people that would be buying houses or renting houses in his township. Fine. So I approached [Batel?] I said, "Look, instead of giving it away, donate that ground, six plots, to the Cape [Indo Inter ?] cultural Society. And thereby you'll be benefitting the society, and at the same time you'll be complying with the municipal regulations by having a community center." [END SIDE ONE] GURURAJ: ...have seen the places, these people that are here, it's a very, very beautiful place. Fine. So now, money. We got twenty people that donated ten thousand each. It's a community of one hundred and fifty people only. A hundred and fifty families. Twenty of them donated ten thousand each. Another fifteen or so donated five thousand each. Right. And other people, again, said, right, so much per month, you know. There is a small number of working class people, fine, that could only give so much per month from their salaries. So, at that time the prices were low when this started. You know, it only took us five years to get this thing really organized. We have a cultural center running there. I hold classes on religion there. We have art classes. We have a nursery school...pre school. We call it a nursery school. What do you call it here?

25. US 86- 31 VOICE: Nursery school. NIRMALA: Day care center. GURURAJ: Nursery school? Yeah. We have that there. And then of course the government give us teachers, you know, to teach the pre school children. And the government pays the [dues?] because the government gives a subsidy. It was a necessary thing for the area. JEFF: Did you approach the people to give the money? Who was the person that approached...? GURURAJ: We appointed a committee. JEFF: Was the committee...is this local business people? People who the community...? GURURAJ: Yes, that's right. Yes. And I told them this, that "All the rich guys, leave them to me. You go to the other guys." Right. So, I took a committee of three or four or five [committee members?]. I remember going to one place and we told him what it is we had planned and things drawn up to show them: This is what we want to put up. Right. With a very good architect, who drew up a wonderful set of plans the way we wanted it. So this chap he says, "Okay, well." [?????] our society. So he wrote out a check for ten thousand. I looked at the check and I tore it up. I said, "Thank you, [Chibubuy?]." That was his first name. "This is no good for us. I know what you are worth." Right. As I know what everyone is worth in Cape Town, as far as the Indian community is concerned. Right. And we started walking out. So he ran after us to the gate and he says, "Oh, come in, come in, come in." You know. And he made out a check for fifty thousand. And that is how the place was supposed to cost three and a half, three hundred and fifty thousand, but with the prices going up in everything it cost half a million. And the place is up running. There's a vernacular school running. There's a nursery school running. There's a ladies club running there. There's a youth club running there, you know, plays table tennis, and you know badminton and squash and all that. JEFF: Basically this was an Indian cultural center to serve the Indian community. GURURAJ: Yes, but each and every one was welcome.

26. US 86- 31 JEFF: But that's how you...that's how you put it out to the local people. You said we would like to have some kind of a center for our community. Something that would... GURURAJ: That's right, yes. But at the same time, in the [INAUDIBLE] that whoever wants to come is welcome. But we, being the people living in the area, we should build something ourselves. MERRILL: I think we could get pledges similarly. Tamaji said that she pledged several thousand dollars. [LAUGHTER] PANU: And Merrill said that he would double it. [LAUGHTER] MERRILL: No, but seriously, we could get pledges. GURURAJ: Look, you got to have a basic capitol to start something. Don't think of the money that's going to come in and you're going to pay your rent. Next month you're going to run short. You have a job, you're working, right, and you're paying your rent. The following month you might get the boot and then you don't have the money to pay your rent. So you've got to have an established capitol which is invested and interest and you know, "Look, that amount is definitely there." And then you start your schemes, whereby you create various things, you know, that would be income producing: like a carpentry shop, manufacturing kitchen furniture, you know a shoe factory, this, that, that, that, that, that, that. And then you know it is a...then it will pay for itself. Satchitananda, Roopa, you were with me, right, invited us to his ashram. He gave us a nice time. A lovely dinner. And then of course I gave a talk there, which was...Vidya, I think you've got the tape. VIDYA: Yeah. GURURAJ: Right. And there's a village nearby, Fomfrit? ROOPA AND VIDYA: Um hm.

27. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Something. There they have a few shops. Time... [WRITES ON BLACKBOARD] [She watches time?]. They have a few shops. One shop is where they make beautiful wax candles. Right. And then they have another shop that makes swami pies or some name. [MUCH LAUGHTER] Some name like that. I can't...I can't remember the name. ROOPA: [LAUGHING] Swami pies, I love it. GURURAJ: Some name like that. VOICE: Swami burgers. GURURAJ: Swami burgers or something. And they distribute it to various shops, you know. Pure vegetarians. And that's how they produce additional income. Then I asked Swami Satchitananda...and he in America is one of the finest guys. The rest of them, ninety five percent, are frauds. But this chap is a genuine guy. Fine. And I told him, he's got a hundred and forty rooms. He's moved to Virginia. He says, "Look, why don't you take this place over? It's got a hundred and forty, a large basement where you can put in eight classrooms. But he wanted three million dollars. "Look," I said, "I haven't got three cents." JEFF: How did he get the money together to do all that? GURURAJ: From public donations. VIDYA: Well, he's been publishing books too. JEFF: How did he put it across to the public? This wasn't from his little congregation, was it? Did he make a big public appeal? VOICE: That's what you're going to find out, Jeff. GURURAJ: I don't know how he did it.

28. US 86- 31 JEFF: That's what I'm trying to find out, my dear. GURURAJ: Yeah, I don't know how he did it, because I didn't want to go into his personal affairs of how he got the money. But nevertheless, that's what he wanted for it. RAJESH: Do you think A.M.S. has like twenty people who could donate five thousand dollars towards something like that? GURURAJ: Ten thousand. Twenty people. MERRILL: We have twenty people who could donate ten thousand dollars? GURURAJ: Yes. Haven't we got? I'm asking a question. VOICE: That's what I was told. VOICE: I don't know anybody's finances. RAMU: Five thousand, yes. I'm not sure about ten thousand. MERRILL: We have twenty people that can donate five thousand? VOICE: We might have one or two hundred people that could give a thousand. VOICE: Twenty at five thousand. That's a hundred thousand. JEFF: I'd like to point out that this appeal's been going on endlessly in this group, and the level of apathy now is close t o rock bottom. So everybody's going to cough up about five dollars towards this. So as soon as this idea Guruji says, and I have to in honesty agree, that you're going to need, we all do, that you're going to need a certain capitol base everybody's mind immediately puts them in, "Oh, forget it!"

29. US 86- 31 RAMU: That's not true, Jeff. VOICE: That's not true. RAMU: We're sitting back here thinking there are twenty people in this room [INAUDIBLE]. JEFF: I'd like to see why we don't have any money in the organization if that isn't true, why the organization is broke. VOICE: Because there wasn't much...they didn't need money. RAMU: Well, there a lot of people who send donations to Gururaj. JEFF: Yes, but I'm saying right now we need a lot of money to accomplish... GURURAJ: [INTERRUPTING] There's not a lot of people. If you ask Vidya, the figures she will give it to you immediately. A few hundred dollars a month. VOICE: That's all? GURURAJ: That's all. JEFF: But the attitude...I'm saying... GURURAJ: It doesn't cover my heart pills and neither my insulin injections. VOICE: Basically, when you go to the store you expect to look at something and then purchase it. You know, you don't expect to give them the money and then have them promise to deliver you something at some time in the future, which is very nebulous. If we had a place... GURURAJ: Well, this place that we built...this place that we built was solely on plans.

30. US 86- 31 VOICE: Yeah, but that's, I think that's a different situation. GURURAJ: It's not a different situation. The people that approached these people, including myself, are very, very highly respected. And when they say a word, they know it will be fulfilled. And it's not put on one person's name, it's put on a trust. [DISCUSSION FOLLOWS] JEFF: [???] Guruji went outside the circle of meditators to find people who would be willing to support this. I want to point out that [Daibuzatzu?] was built that kind of money by a non meditator two tons of money. [In these places?] is possible, because if this group...I'm saying it's not going to work collecting just within this group, like a pledge drive. And I think you're agreeing. RAMU: I think we do have to support it inside and outside the organization, and a pledge drive is one way to do it. And it's probably going to bring you the most money right up front. RAJESH: You think we want... I don't know whether anyone knows, but in the old B.M.S. there was, Bapaji must remember this, but we had about, I know I wasn't involved then, but I've heard this from other people, we had fifty thousand pounds which was put towards an ashram. GURURAJ: Yeah, and I don't know where that disappeared to. RAJESH: [INAUDIBLE] But we had the money, and a lot of it was donated... VOICE: That's what we're talking about. VOICE: Why don't you go find it.

31. US 86- 31 VOICE: Go find it. GURURAJ: No. Where you going to find that? Well, all that money disappeared. A quarter of a million pounds disappeared. Listen to this, Jeff. A quarter of a million pounds disappeared from B.M.S., even our duplicating machine and various other typewriters and things. The equipment disappeared. Everything worth a quarter million. Because we had very, very honest people there. I'd never run an organization ever again leaving it just to people with just complete trust, because that is what happened. Like two people that you know very much which Nirmala visited. Goes to...invites someone, you know, for dinner and says, "Oh, Guruji, insists we must accompany him," you know, "on his tour to Denmark and Spain. But you know we haven't got clothes and we haven't got air fares." You know, this chap was the first to give a large chunk to B.M.S., but they grabbed it and they used Guruji's name. Yeah. A car was given, a brand new car was given by a lady from Oxford to B.M.S. So this couple that I am talking about sold the car to Charles Shaw, right, pocketed that money, came to America and made a collection here to buy a car because they needed money to travel around. And things like that. Over a quarter of a million pounds disappeared. So I know about all these things and what's done. You got to have a trust, a trust committee that handles finances. You got to have that. Everything is to be properly recorded and audited and the works. MERRILL: I wonder if Ramu can do that, and Jeff can do the location? GURURAJ: Sure, anyone. MERRILL: Coordinate a financial plan committee to sketch that out. RAMU: I'd like for Jammu to help me. RAJESH: In England a couple of years ago, there was quite a few of us who were willing to actually sell their homes, because the property market is very high now in England. We were all willing to actually sell our homes, because when we had bought them they'd practically doubled in price and put that towards it. But there wasn't quite enough people willing to do that. There was a lot of people who would have done that.

32. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Yes, but when they saw a lot of hanky panky business going on, they changed their minds. MERRILL: That's why I think you're right, it has to be on a sound financial base. GURURAJ: Absolutely, otherwise you'll have the ashram for two months on a rental basis, not knowing where the income is going to come from. No basis at all. And in two months we'll close up, and we'll all make a damn fool of ourselves. MERRILL: So how about that? Ramu will coordinate the a financial plan, maybe with Jammu's assistance. And Jeff will have a committee to look at locations. And [then?] next time we'll talk about it. When should the next time be? JEFF: What happened to that...wasn't there a piece of paper that went around one course where everybody was supposed to list expertise, areas of expertise? VIDYA: I have a file with everyone who turned it in. [INAUDIBLE] and mail that to you. JEFF: Something other than typing. VOICE: That's important. JEFF: Typing's wonderful. GURURAJ: You talk...Jeff, you talk of people working, Vidya has stacks of material there. You know, I've done over five thousand talks, and it has been estimated by qualified people that even after editing there could be fifty volumes, you know, of my talks on varied subjects. Like, for example, here I give ten talks. One talk is twenty pages. So just on one five day course there's one book. Right. Now all this once you have a place, an establishment, then a print shop can be put up, right. And when it comes to book publishing, do you know who makes the money? Not the author, he gets ten or fifteen percent at the most. The publisher makes the money. So we can even have our own print shop. And that will generate a lot of income. But you got to have a basis. A fund there standing put away in gilt edged security, with three signatures for any withdrawal. You have a trust committee of five or seven people and three signatures are required to withdraw any money from there.

33. US 86- 31 VOICE: Yeah, that's [important?]. NIRMALA: That's the way it's done. GURURAJ: That's the way it's done, but you got to have the basis first. Otherwise, you go...you can advertise in papers. And I'm sure you'll get five hundred replies that I've got a place to let, to rent out. And how you going to upkeep it? Just don' t think as far as getting a place: it's available. Put in fifty ads in fifty newspapers. And there's fifty states. And you'll find so many letters coming to you Yes, place for sale. Place for sale. Place for sale." [INAUDIBLE]. So what about renovating the place to make it to the way we want our facilities to be? So the basic thing here is to create this fund and have, to put it away in gilt edged security. Seven trustees, you know, that handles that. And no one can draw a single penny. And I can appoint international auditors and directors, or one of you can do that, because I am still connected in the accountantcy field. And it will remain in the name of The American Meditation Society and no one else. You can call it The Gururaj Ashram, yes, that I don't mind. I'll lend you my name. But it will belong to The American Meditation Society. It is their money, and it is theirs! That's the way it's done. Otherwise we're chasing fleeting clouds. NIRMALA: Well, I think we ought to boil down roughly around what city we'd want to be and how far from the airport. GURURAJ: Find out the prices in the area. NIRMALA: Because would you want to be near Washington, D.C.? GURURAJ: Anywhere. I'm prepared to go anywhere and stay anywhere. NIRMALA: Anybody here know whether country property is expensive there? RAMU: Well, the property inside Washington is expensive, but see you have [Belk?] Airport outside of Washington in more of a rural Virginia setting which...where the property value is not so expensive. And it's very close to a major airport. Dulles is one of the major international airports. And you can have more of a rural country setting. So there may be a place.

34. US 86- 31 Baldev is a real estate agent, and he's a lawyer. GURURAJ: Oh, we'll get everything done very, very quickly. [LAUGHTER] VIDYA: It's time. It's time. We're not going to have a satsang tonight if we don't move along. It's eight o'clock. GURURAJ: Alright. The talk is hot, let it be hot. We can always extend the satsang and talk until twelve tonight. I don't mind. VIDYA: Don't forget the dinner. GURURAJ: So what! Forget dinner, this is more important. NIRMALA: Charlottesville is quite hot down there in the summer. It's really hot. GURURAJ: The idea I had in mind was this...this is a very rough sketch. I'm not an artist, I'll leave it to Jeff. Right. [DRAWS ON BLACKBOARD] You have your central building here. You have your central building here. This is your central building, where you have your adment. Okay. A d... Oh, well, you know, adment. Right. This side you have your various other facilities: offices. Other side you have your loos, etc. In the center would be your lecture hall. Right. This would be a dome of any shape which let natural light in, whereby you save on electricity. Fine. These are roads. And as you expand you build more roads. Now this in South Africa is called a [rondalvo?]. And it's a bad sketch, of course. But you have an idea of what a [rondalvo?] is. NIRMALA: Yeah, it's a roundhouse. GURURAJ: Yeah, it's something... Well, we've got artists here, they would be able to...you know? With a little garden patch, you know, sort of a pathway, garden patch, and a yard, back yard at the back. All these [rondalvos?], right. So we start with the first line. Build that. Finish. And we have a road which would be accessible to the homes. Right. Fine. A ll

35. US 86- 31 around. That line is finished, we get in more money, then we start with that road. Another line of [rondalvos?] Then the third line, fourth line, fifth line, ever expanding. [BALOO?]: Do you live in the dome, Guruji? GURURAJ: Well, I could live anywhere, in the roof, in the ceiling. I don't mind. I can sleep on the floor. If you need my room for tonight and if your room is not comfortable, you can have it. I'll sleep in the lobby. That's me, a yogi. Fine. So then a lot of money can be generated by what I can do with this river or stream. It will attract people from all over America, something like Lourdes. Lourdes, is that the way it's pronounced? [AUDIENCE GIVES DIFFERENT PRONUNCIATIONS] GURURAJ: Lourdes, yeah. And one source of income. And because of its attraction, because there's nothing like this in America, people will come from everywhere. And all these [rondalvos?] will be continuously occupied and rent producing. Then of course together with this building you have your dining hall. Well, it has to be designed, this is just a rough sketch and I'm not an artist. NIRMALA: Would you want that many people? GURURAJ: And then of course, in these [rondalvos?] you have a bed sitter. You know, bed sitter? What do you call it here? VIDYA: Efficiency apartment. GURURAJ: Efficiency apartment where you have your pull out bed, right, and sitting room and a little kitchenette for them to make tea and things. And they come and live there and get treated. VOICE: Self supporting. GURURAJ: Hm?

36. US 86- 31 VOICE: Self supporting. Growing a garden to produce food and everything else. GURURAJ: Yeah, for... No. The only garden is for the residents that are there for the whole year. Then we would have places for people that come just for treatment, and that would be money producing. NIRMALA: What do they do in the river? GURURAJ: Huh? NIRMALA: What do they do in the river? GURURAJ: I baptize them, cure them. NIRMALA: Oh, a holy river, like the Jordan or Ganges or something. GURURAJ: Oh, the Ganges is the dirtiest one ever. [AUDIENCE HAS SUGGESTIONS AS TO THE DIRTIEST RIVER] PRIYA: The Kankakee would be good. SANDIA: That's the cleanest water in Illinois. GURURAJ: It can be any kind of water. I know how to magnetize an entire river that will cure any [???]. Just come and bathe. NIRMALA: You want something on the Potomac? GURURAJ: But it must be on private property so that the government won't interfere with us.

37. US 86- 31 RAMU: Guruji, the thought has occurred back in the room here that we always get to a point where we talk about money and get to a point where we start to form committees to go out to look for money, but the question's occurred whether we have twenty people or ten people to give five thousand dollars, either now or sometime in the very near future. The thought's occurred back here why don't I see a raise of hands right now of people that can write out a check sometime within the next three months of five thousand dollars. JEFF: You want to see... GURURAJ: Let me tell you one thing. I've extensive experience of meetings, organizations and all these things. As a matter of fact, even before doing the present work I'm doing, I've always been doing social work all my life in various spheres of activity and I know how these things run. If you want to have something not done nominate a committee and it will never be done. MERRILL: What shall we do, Guruji? GURURAJ: I don't know. You give... You put down a check now. That's what we can do. JASMINI: That's what we were saying. Those who can afford it if they do it now while they...and not wait until they go back and it starts getting steep. Each time we got it it's the same thing. GURURAJ: You see, if you appoint, Jasmini, if you appoint a committee, they'll talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. JASMINI: No, you're not seeing... VOICE: That wastes time. GURURAJ: No, just let me carry on. They'll talk, talk, talk. Postpone the committee. Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And years and years will go by and nothing done. RAJESH: You want action.

38. US 86- 31 JASMINI: So let them act now, those who are going to pledge something. And it might start... TAMAJI: My experience with this issue is, as you said, you know, we start talking and always remaining abstract concept and never get [out?]. But then again we started talking about these this time, and so while energy is still high... GURURAJ: Hot. Do it, yes! TAMAJI: How about if we start it. And then other people will join us. Well, I wouldn't say five thousand dollars. [DIFFERENT OPINIONS ARE OFFERED] VOICE: Why not...can't everyone that's here donate five hundred or whatever. GURURAJ: Create a fund of quarter of a million dollars. JASMINI: Just now make pledge. GURURAJ: And stick it away in a gilt edged security. RAMU: Yeah, we have to do that. MERRILL: Well, we'll pledge ten thousand dollars. RAMU: And we'll pledge five thousand. VOICES: That's fifteen. VOICE: [PLEDGES ONE THOUSAND] VOICES: That's sixteen. GURURAJ: Secretary, make a note of the names.

39. US 86- 31 JASMINI: Names and amount. MERRILL: Not the amount. Not the amount. [CONFUSION WHILE LIST IS STARTED] VIDYA: Jeff was going to take care of it. GURURAJ: No, no, no, no, no. I'll appoint the people to take care of it. We'll vote on that later. Just write down names meanwhile. VIDYA: Alright, start all over again. MERRILL: Harmins donate ten thousand dollars. Sunita donates five hundred. Paul said one thousand. GURURAJ: Sunita, right. VIDYA: Paul said what? MERRILL: Paul said one thousand. GURURAJ: I heard five. VOICE: Back here... GURURAJ: We're coming to you still, I heard you said five. PANU: No, I said one thousand.

40. US 86- 31 GUR URAJ: No, no, no, you said five. Let us help him out. [LAUGHTER] Come on. Come on. PANU: Well, I did say five. GURURAJ: You said five. You people don't know how to raise money, ask me to be here. RAMU: Go to the other side of the room. [MUCH LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Ramu, five. MERRILL: Did you get Bob for a thousand dollars? VIDYA: All I have are Harmins, Sunita, Paul and Ramu. JEFF: Now, is this altogether or for one year? MERRILL: Babita, seven thousand. GURURAJ: No. Within three months, this must come in. RAMU: Now, this goes into a fund [INAUDIBLE] which will be invested. GURURAJ: Right. Yes, but this money must come in within three months to be put away. Gilt edged security, and no stocks and shares. TAMAJI: And I'd like to emphasize that each family has there own situation, and so the amount of donation doesn't have any...doesn't make any difference. GURURAJ: Right! Absolutely! SANDIYA: If you can only afford five dollars, then fine.

41. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Just record what Tamaji suggests. NIRMALA: You're giving five? SANDIYA: No, I said if they could only afford five, then they should give five. It still counts. VOICE: Sure. Sure, sure. NIRMALA: Well, I'll give five thousand, at least. I'd rather find out just how much I could give. But I'll give five anyho w. GURURAJ: Not accepted. Sorry. Thank you, mother. Very kind of you. Oh, put down ten for her. [MUCH LAUGHTER] [HE KISSES NIRMALA] NIRMALA: I do have to ask my husband. GURURAJ: Right. That's okay, but we'll put down. We'll put down ten, don't you worry. I'll speak to your husband. NIRMALA: Well, probably we could up it sometime, but I... GURURAJ: I'll speak to your husband without verbal speaking. NIRMALA: Yes, but I don't like to say I'll give more and have to back track. I'd rather take one step at a time. GURURAJ: No, no, no. No, no, no. You won't back track. I know you will step it up. [LAUGHTER] I know that for sure. And not only that, Mother, what you're going to do is this also, and I tell you this, this is a prophesy, that you'll be leaving a lovely legacy to that ashram... NIRMALA: Well. GURURAJ: ...when it comes near to you leaving us in the physical. I might be dead before you, I don't know.

42. US 86- 31 Ten. JEFF: [IN A BEGGING VOICE] Can we have a little more for Guruji? GURURAJ: No, no, no. Ten. What's wrong with you? Do what the boss says. JEFF: Guruji, would you consider five [hundred?]? GURURAJ: That depends on the... VOICE: Well, this is a pledge of the very near future. GURURAJ: Yeah. NIRMALA: That's it. Within the next three months. GURURAJ: Within the next three months. You can give it in three days. It doesn't matter. VI DYA: Hundred or thousand? VOICE: Thousand. GURURAJ: Who's this now? Just hold on. Don't write. Don't write. Who are we talking to? Huh uh, I'm very sorry. I tell you exactly what your monthly earnings are. Yours and your husband's put together: two and a half thousand. VIDYA: She already said five. GURURAJ: Oh, you said five. VIDYA: Yeah, double. [MUCH LAUGHTER]

43. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Oh, I thought you said one. You know, I heard five. You know, we can still push it up. We can still put it up. VO ICE: Later. Start with five. JEFF: Vidya, put us down for a thousand, but I'll need more than three months. VOICE: Okay, twenty five hundred. VOICE: Oh, very nice, Bob. Very nice. VOICE: Vidya, put me down for twenty four hundred. GURURAJ: Thank you, Bob. Stand up, please. Let the people see you. Give him applause. [APPLAUSE] Who wants a guru shoe? [LAUGHTER] What do you offer for it? VOICE: Wait, wait, I have a shirt here, two hundred and ten dollars. GURURAJ: No, a guru's shoe is valuable. Do you know Gandhi's slippers they've got in a museum, and one rich man called [Tata]? paid one [klaud], which amounts to ten million rupees for his old slippers to be put in that museum? So what's wrong with a guru's shoes. I'll polish it first, by the way, before you can have it. Next person, come up. You know, a lock of the hair... VOICE: I've got some. GURURAJ: You know a lock of the hair, let me tell you a little...pardon? MADHU: Peggy's collected all the hair she's cut of yours.

44. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Do you know that in the northern part of India there is a Muslim mosque that's a whole racket, and there they maintain that they have one hair of the prophet Mohammed? And thousands and thousands of people go there on pilgrimage just to see that hair of Mohammed. [LAUGHTER] And when you go there you just can't go there empty handed, you know, you pay, pay, pay. NIRMALA: I've heard that they've kept Rajnesh's toenail clippings. VOICE: Oh, God! GURURAJ: Anyone want my toenail? You can have my [INAUDIBLE]. VOICE: You know, you mentioned Rajnesh, whatever happened to that set up? It's already there. SANDIA: It's already there. VIDYA: You wouldn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole. GURURAJ: You wouldn't want to touch it with a large pole. VOICE: Why not? It's all set up. RAMU: How much do we have so far? GURURAJ: Don't count yet. Don't count. Don't count yet. We'll count at the end. JASMINI: We haven't been hearing any more pledges. VOICE: Yeah, really. VIDYA: Well, there have been several that have come in silently here.

45. US 86- 31 JEFF: Did we give enough, Guruji? GURURAJ: Hm? JEFF: Did Laura and I give enough? GURURAJ: I'm still considering. Hold on. Hold on. I'm meditating on it while I'm talking. SANDIA: Well, they have a new one coming, don't forget. GURURAJ: I know. I'm not forgetting. SANDIA: Okay. GURURAJ: My grandchild will have the best of the best. MERRILL: Terry's got a donation of five hundred. TERRY: Five hundred. [PAUSE] A thousand. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: [INAUDIBLE] very easy, because within the next seven, eight months... When does your next term start? VIDYA: September. GUR URAJ: Not this September, but before next September you'll be getting that job with that [???]. TERRY: Okay. One thousand. [CONVERSATIONS CONCERNING PLEDGES]

46. US 86- 31 [GURURAJ WRITING ON BLACKBOARD] VIDYA: Twenty four hundred. VOICE: [??] four ninety five. That's a lot. GURURAJ: Twenty four. Just hold on. Let's work this out. [PAUSE WHILE GURURAJ FIGURES ON BLACKBOARD] GURURAJ: Three thousand, three thousand and.. I don't want you people to see my formula. [LAUGHTER] H er husband's a Realtor. Right. This was a set of beads... SANDIA: That Gururaj wore... GURURAJ: ...which was given to me by my guru. So if you put a million pounds there for me for my pocket and the beads there, I would refuse that million and keep these beads. VOICE: You scared us for a minute. GURURAJ: A million pounds for my pocket. You know what I mean. Right. But I'd still keep these beads. Mark, you have a very strong sense of intuition. Just for a minute, see what you feel. VOICES: I see you've got to keep going, Guruji. NIRMALA: Amazing vibrations. GURURAJ: There you are. A hundred thousand for the ashram, you can have these beads. Anyone. A hundred thousand you can have my guru's beads for the ashram. I won't have it for my pocket. For the ashram.

47. US 86- 31 RAMU: Money. VOICE: I [????] have a hundred thousand. I mean, if I wrote you a check it would bounce higher than this [???]. If I had the money it would [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: Now, total that [???]. Chetanji, any ideas from your side? I mean the best way to go around things? CHETAN: I don't want to take up too much time, Guruji. GURURAJ: Yes, I know you don't want to. You just need to name a figure. [LAUGHTER] CHETAN: Guruji, what about the Canadian Meditation Society? We're really struggling. I think that's my first responsibility. GURURAJ: But, you know, some loose change? [LAUGHTER] NIRMALA: You going have an ashram? VOICE: Fifty bucks NIRMALA: We'll move our ashram up to Canada. You going to have an ashram? CHETAN: That's my first responsibility.. GURURAJ: Yes, we've got four meditators there. NIRMALA: Well, that would be very pretty over in British Columbia somewhere.

48. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Oh, beautiful. Victoria. Nevertheless we have some plans [INAUDIBLE]. He just bought acres and acres of ground there. Then live in one house, and his wife and all the German shepherd dogs they would look after the whole place. We'd use a portion of it for an ashram there. [INAUDIBLE] I'm putting ideas into his head. VIDYA: Forty four thousand. GURURAJ: Forty four. We can't leave it under fifty, please. Forty four. We need six here now. Iris, one thousand. So, that makes forty five. Right. Five only! Only five, c'mon! It's only five. VOICE: Hell, I got five. [APPLAUSE] GURURAJ: You have me here in America for six months, I'll show you the miracle of miracles. Just give me a start with an ashram, that's all. MERRILL: We had a miracle just now. Fifty thousand dollars in a half hour. VOICE: Yeah, and California is coming up. SANDIA: Yeah, you still got to get the people in California, too. GURURAJ: Amongst a few people. You have me here for six months. You'll see miracles. Now, my shoes. I never light a cigarette when I sit in the holy chair. RAMU: Guruji, even though we may have concluded this part of the meeting, let's don't close the books for anybody who's here who. .. GURURAJ: No, no, of course not Ramu. You're quite right. This is just [INAUDIBLE]. As you suggested that you appoint committees, then the committee will have more committees and then you have sub committees and then you have sub sub committees, and like that it will go on and on and on and nothing will be done.

49. US 86- 31 VOICE: But still, somebody has to make those financial plans and Ramu will do that. And somebody's got to find a [?????] location. [INAUDIBLE] RAJESH: At least you know it's possible. RAMU: As far as making a financial plan, I'm really not a financial planner. So I'm not sure how much... GURURAJ: I'm a financial planner, and I don't want my signature at all in the deposits. You appoint your own trustees, fine, and I'll tell you how to invest it at the best rate. Gilt edged. Did I miss you out? GOMILA: I can't say anything without my husband. GURURAJ: You can't say anything without her husband, right. But just put the name Garber there, you know and just some zeros. We will add on the figure in front of it. [INAUDIBLE QUESTION TO GURURAJ] GURURAJ: We will discuss it later. VOICE: Guruji, I would also like some time frame for this. GURURAJ: Yes, three months. We decided on that. VOICE: I'm not talking about bringing in the money. I'm referring to plans and getting the system. That is, I'm not willin g to donate money that will to go into a bank and may never get used. That is, I want to make sure that it is a real thing that is operating. VOICE: A deadline for selecting a location.

50. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: When a person...here's an idea you can add onto it. The money of course will come in within three months. That's been decided upon. If a start has not been made on the ashram within say three years you know towards completion of it, the donor will get back his money plus the interest that has been earned on it. VOICES: Yeah, I think we'll have to have some kind of legal contract. VOICE: That's very fair. GURURAJ: No one gambles. VOICE: I want to make a distinction between the simple talks like this we've had over the years and the present moment. And I don't see the follow up steps quite hard enough for my taste. I'd like to know when Jeff is going to report back with plans. I'd like to know when Ramu is going to survey. GURURAJ: Well, give them a time limit and we'll want reports. I'm back here in September. So be careful boys, rather they know if you can't do it. VOICE: September is three months from now [INAUDIBLE]. So something would have to be done by the next time. GURURAJ: No, it's not three months, my dear. Call it two months July, August. Don't count September. I might be in the early part of September. Two months. [????? few] days, you know. VOICE: Okay, but people were saying in November there would be a report. And I think we should see a report in November. VOICE: Well, Jammu just made a suggestion. He said why not have a plan ready and the people that are donating the money see the plan. And if they like the plan, the money will be there. They'll turn the money in. JAMMU: Well, let's tale a step back.

51. US 86- 31 VOICE: Well, how would you phrase it then? JAMMU: No, no, no, no, no. Do not ever give a damn cent unless you have a plan. No talk... This is like going to one of these real estate developers where you sit around and you're high pressured: and who will pay [???], who will do this, who will sign here? Don't do it until tomorrow. Think about it. Sleep on it. And don't sign until you see the plan. No checks, no nothing. GURURAJ: No, that...I disagree there with Jammu, because before...I don't know if you heard me correctly that a legal document will be drawn up. If the thing is not built within three years, then the people will get their money back plus the interest that's earned. And the money will be put in a gilt edged you know security, right, where there's no chance of a loss not a gamble, right, and they're losing nothing. [there appears to be a section of tape missing ] GURURAJ: Yeah, but when they saw a lot of hanky panky business going on they changed their minds. SUJAY: That's why I think you're right. It has to be on a sound financial base. GURURAJ: Absolutely. Or otherwise you'll have the ashram for two months, on a rental basis, not knowing where the income is gonna come from, no basis at all, and two months you close up and we'll all make a damn fool of ourselves. MERRILL: So, how about that? Ramu will coordinate a financial plan, [with]? Jamu's assistance, and Jeff will have a committee to look at locations. And then next time we'll talk about it. When should the next time be? JEFF: Wasn't there a piece of paper that went around one course where everybody was supposed to list their areas expertise? VIDYA: I have a file of everyone who turned it in. JEFF: Something other than typing.

52. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Jeff, you talk of people working. Vidya has stacks of material there. You know I've done over five thousand talks, and it has been estimated, by qualified people, that, even after editing, there could be fifty volumes, you know, of my talks on varied subjects. Like, for example, here I give ten talks. One talk is twenty pages. So, just on one five day course is one book. Right. Now, all this, once you have a place, an establishment, then a print shop can be put up, right, and when it comes to book publishing do you know who makes the money? Not the author. He gets ten or fifteen percent, for the most. The publisher makes the money. So, we can even have our own print shop, and that will generate a lot income; but you got to have a basis. A fund there, standing put away in gilt edged security, with three signatures for any withdrawal. You have a trust committee of five or seven people, and three signatures are required to withdraw any money from there. VOICES: [ASSENTS] GURURAJ: That's the way it's done. But you got to have the basis, first. Otherwise you'll go, advertise in papers and I'm sure you'll get five hundred replies that I've got a place to let, to rent out. Then how are you going to upkeep it? You just don't think as far as getting a place. It's available. Put in fifty ads, in fifty newspapers, in these fifty states, and you'll find so many letters coming to you; yes, place for sale, place for sale, place for sale. How you gonna upkeep it? What about the renovating of the place to make it to the way we want our facilities to be? So, the basic thing here is to create this fund and to put it away in gilt edged security. Seven trustees, you know, that handles that. No one can draw a single penny. And I can appoint international auditors, and directors, or one of you can do that. Because I am still connected in the accountancy field. That would remain in the name of the American Meditation Society and no one else's. You can call it a Gururaj ashram, yes, that I don't mind. I'll lend you my name. But it will belong to the American Meditation Society. It is their money; and it is theirs. That's the way it's done. Otherwise we're chasing fleeting clouds. NIRMALA: Well, I think we ought to boil down, roughly, around what city we'd want to be... GURURAJ: Find out the prices in the area. NIRMALA: ...and how far away from the airport. Would you want to be near Washington, D.C.?

53. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Anywhere. I'm prepared to go anywhere and stay anywhere. NIRMALA: Anybody here know [if the]? country property is expensive there? VOICE: Well, the property inside Washington is expensive, but, you see, you have [Belk's]? airport outside of Washington, in more of a rural Virginia setting, where the property value is not so expensive. And it's very close to a major airport, [Dulles]? is one of the major international airports, and you can have more of a rural, country setting. So, there may be a place. Baldev is a real estate agent, and he's a lawyer. GURURAJ: Oh, we'll get everything done very, very, quickly. [LAUGHTER] VIDYA: It's time. It's time. We're not going to have a satsang tonight, if we don't move along. GURURAJ: Alright, the talk is hot. Let it be hot. We can always extend the satsang and talk until twelve tonight, I don't mind. VIDYA: [Dinner]? GURURAJ: So what? Forget dinner. This is more important. NIRMALA: Charlottesville is quite hot down there in the summer. It's really hot. GURURAJ: The idea I had in mind was this, this is a very rough sketch. I'm not an artist. I'd leave it to Jeff. Right. [DRAWS ON BLACKBOARD] [You go like]? Fine. You have your central building here. You have your central building here. This is your central building where you have your adment. Okay. A..d..oh, well, you know, adment. Right. This side you have your various other facilities: officers. Other side you have your loo's, etcetera. In the center would be your lecture hall, right, this would be a dome of any shape that would let natural light in; whereby you save on electricity. Fine.

54. US 86- 31 These are roads, and as you expand you build more roads. Now, this in South Africa is called a [rondalvo]? It's a bad sketch, of course, but you have an idea of what a [rondalvo]? is. NIRMALA: Yeah, it's a roundhouse. GURURAJ: Ya, it's something, well we've got an artist here that would be able to...with a little garden patch, you know, put a pathway, garden patch, and a yard, a backyard at the back. All these [rondalvos]? Right. So, we start with the first line, build that finish, and we have a road, which would be accessible to the homes, right, fine, all around. That line is finished. We get in more money then we start with that road. Another line of [rondalvos]?, then the third line, fourth line, fifth line; ever expanding. VOICE: Do you live in the dome, Guruji? GURURAJ: Well, I could live anywhere, in the roof, the ceiling, I don't mind. I could sleep on the floor. If you need my room for tonight and your room is not comfortable, you can have it. I'll sleep in the lobby. That's me. A yogi. Fine. So , then, a lot of money can be generated by what I can do with this river or stream. It will attract people from all over America. Something like the Lords, Lourdes, is that the way it's pronounced. Lourdes. One source of income. And because of its attraction, because there's nothing like this in America, people will come from everywhere. And all these [rondalvos]? will be continuously occupied and rent producing. And, then, of course, together with this building you have your dining hall. Well, it has to be designed. Look, this is just a rough sketch, and I'm not an artist. NIRMALA: Would you want that many people? GURURAJ: And then, of course, in these [rondalvos]? you have a bedsitter? You know, bedsitter. What do you call it here? VOICE: Efficiency apartment. GURURAJ: Efficiency apartment where you have your pull out bed, right, and sitting room, and a little kitchenette; where you make tea and things. And they come and live there and get treated.

55. US 86- 31 VOICE: Self supporting. Your own garden to produce the food and everything. GURURAJ: No, the only garden, that is for the residents, you know, that are there for the whole year. But then we would have places for people that come just for treatment. And that would be money producing. NIRMALA: What do they do in the river? GUR URAJ: I baptize them. Cure them. NIRMALA: Oh, a holy river, like Jordan, Ganges, or something. GURURAJ: Oh, Ganges is the dirtiest one ever. VOICES: Miracle river... Kankakee's a clean river... Kankakee would be good... Cleanest water in Illinois... Really. GURURAJ: Can be any kind of water. I know how to magnetize an entire river, so it will any, just come in and bathe. NIRMALA: You want something on the Potomac. GURURAJ: But it must be on private property so the government won't interfere with us. VOICE: Guruji, the thought has occurred, in the back of the room here, that we always get to a point where we talk about money, and get to a point where we start to form a committee to go out to look for money, but the question's occurred whether we have twenty people or ten people to give five thousand dollars, either now, or sometime in the very near future. The thought's occurred back here, why don't I see a raise of hands right now of people that can write out a check sometime within the next three months for five thousand dollars? GURURAJ: And let me tell you one thing, I've extensive experience of meetings, organizations, and all these things. As a matter of fact, even before doing the present work I'm doing, I've always been doing social work, all my life in various

56. US 86- 31 spheres of activity. And I know how these things run. If you want to have something not done, nominate a committee. It'll never be done. MERRILL: What shall we do, Guruji? GURURAJ: I don't know. You put down a check, now. That's what we can do. JASMINI: I was gonna say. Those that can afford it if they do it now and not wait until they go back and then it's.... GURURAJ: You see, if you appoint, Jasmini, if you appoint a committee they'll talk, talk, talk, talk, talk...no, just let me carry on...they'll talk, talk, talk, postpone the committee, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and years and years will go by and nothing will happen. VOICE: You want action. JASMINI: Let's ask now those that are going to pledge something. TAMAJI: Well, my experience with this issue is, as you said, you know, where you start talking and always remain in abstract concept, and never get out. But then, again, we started talking about these this time, and so while energy is still high, how about we start it, and then other people will join us? GURURAJ: Hot! Do it. Yes. VOICE: Why can't every one that's here donate five hundred or whatever? GURURAJ: Create a fund of a quarter million dollars and stick it away in a gilt edged security. You need that. TAMAJI: Just make pledge. VOICES: Yeah, you have to... Instead of demanding...

57. US 86- 31 MERRILL: Well, we'll pledge ten thousand dollars. VOICES: And we'll pledge five thousand... That's fifteen g's, right there...Anyone else?...That's sixteen... GURURAJ: Seventy three, make a note of the names. JASMINI: Names and amount. MERRILL: Not the amount. Not the amount. VOICE: Jeff was going to take care of it. GURURAJ: No, no, no. I'll appoint the people to take care of it. We'll vote on that later. Just write down names meanwhile. VIDYA: Alright. Start all over again. MERRILL: Harmins donate ten thousand dollars. Sunita donates five hundred. Paul said one thousand. GURURAJ: I heard five. [You were talking to yourself,]? I heard you said five. No, no, no, you said five. VOICE: No, I said [???] GURURAJ: Let us help you, Marv. [LAUGHTER] MARV: Okay, I said five. GURURAJ: You said five. You people don't know how to raise money. Ask me to be here.

58. US 86- 31 VOICE: Go to the other side of the room. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Ramu five. MERRILL: Did you get [Barb]? for a thousand dollars? VIDYA: All I have are Harmins, Sunita, Paul and Ramu. VOICE: Now, is this altogether or for one year? VOICES: Babita?...[???] seven thousand... GURURAJ: No. Within three months this must come in. VOICE: Now, this goes into a fund for the ashram, which will be invested? VOICE: Right. GURURAJ: Yes, but this money must come in within three months and put away. Gilt edged security, and no stocks and shares. TAMAJI: And I'd like to emphasize that each family has their own situation, and so the amount of donation doesn't make any difference. GURURAJ: Right. Absolutely. Just record that Tamaji suggests. VOICES: Right. If you can only afford five dollars then fine...You're giving five?...No, I said if they can only afford five then they should give five. It still counts... NIRMALA: Well, I'll give five thousand, at least. I'd rather find out just how much I could give, but I'll give five anyhow.

59. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Not accepted. Sorry. Thank you, mother. Very kind of you. Put down ten for her. [LAUGHTER] NIRMALA: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: That's okay, we'll put down ten. Don't you worry. NIRMALA: Probably we could up it sometime. GURURAJ: I'll speak to your husband without verbal speaking. NIRMALA: Yes, but I don't like to say I'll give more then have to backtrack. I'd rather take one step at a time. GURURAJ: No, no, no, no, you won't backtrack. I know you will step it up. I know that for sure. Not only that, mother, what you gonna do is this, also, and I tell you this, this is a prophesy. You'll be leaving a lovely legacy to that ashram when it comes near to you leaving us in the physical. I might be dead before you, I don't know. Ken. No, no, no, Ken what's wrong with you? Do what the boss says. VOICE: Guruji, would you consider five months instead of three? GURURAJ: That depends on [you]? MERRILL: Well, this is a pledge in the very near future. NIRMALA: That's it. The next three months. GURURAJ: Ya. The next three months. You can give it in the next three days. Doesn't matter. VIDYA: A hundred or a thousand?

60. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: Who's this now? Just hold on. Don't write. Don't write. Who are we talking to? Huh uh, I'm very sorry, I tell you exactly what your monthly earnings are. Yours and your husband's put together; two and a half thousand. VOICE: She already said five. GURURAJ: Oh, you said five. VOICE: Yeah, double. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Oh, I thought you said one. [INAUDIBLE] You know we can still push it up. VOICES: Vidya, put us down for a thousand, but I want more than three months...Okay, twenty five hundred...Oh, very [???], very nice... Vidya, put me down for twenty four hundred... GURURAJ: Thank you, Bob. Stand up, please. Let the people see you. Give him applause. [APPLAUSE] Who wants a guru shoe? [LAUGHTER] VOICE: Wait, wait, I have a shirt here, two hundred and ten dollars. GURURAJ: No, a guru's shoe is valuable. Do you know Gandhi's slippers they've got in a museum and one rich man called [Tata]? paid one [klaud], which amounts to ten million rupees for his old slippers to be put in that museum? So, what's wrong with a guru's shoes. I'll polish it first, by the way. Next person, come up. You know a lock of the hair...let me tell you a little...pardon? VOICE: Peggy's collected all the hair she's cut, of yours. GURURAJ: Do you know that in the northern part of India there is a Muslim mosque, that's a whole racket, and there they maintain that they have one hair of the prophet Mohammed? And thousands and thousands of people go there on

61. US 86- 31 pilgrimage just to see that hair of Mohammed. [LAUGHTER] And when you go there you just can't go there empty handed, you know, you pay, pay, pay. NIRMALA: I've heard that they've kept Rajnesh's toenail clippings. VOICE: Oh, God! GURURAJ: Anyone want my toenail [INAUDIBLE] ? VOICE: You know, you mentioned Rajnesh, whatever happened to that set up? It's already there. VOICES: It's already there... You wouldn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole... GURURAJ: You wouldn't want to touch it with a large pole. VOICE: Why not? It's all set up. VOICE: How much do we have so far? GURURAJ: Don't count yet. Don't count. Don't count yet. We'll count at the end. VOICES: We haven't been hearing any more [pledges]? ... Yeah, really...There have been several that have come in silently... VOICE: [Guruji, did Lara and I give enough?]? GURURAJ: I'm still considering. Hold on. Hold on. I'm meditating on it while I'm talking. VOICE: Well, they have a new one coming, don't forget.

62. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: I know. I'm not forgetting. My grandchild will have the best of the best. MERRILL: Terry's got a donation of five hundred. GURURAJ: [INAUDIBLE] ...five hundred thousand.. [LAUGHTER] It would be very easy. Because within the next seven, eight, months, when does your next term start? VOICE: September. GURURAJ: Not this September, but before next September you'll be getting that job. TERRY? Okay. One thousand. [CONVERSATIONS CONCERNING PLEDGES] [GURURAJ WRITING ON BLACKBOARD] GURURAJ: Three thousand, three thousand and.. I don't want you people to see my formula. [LAUGHTER] Her husband's [??????]? Right. This was a set of beads... VOICE: That Gururaj wore... GURURAJ: ...which was given to me by my guru. So, if you put a million pounds there, for me, for my pocket, and the beads there, I would refuse that million and keep these beads. A million pounds for my pocket. You know what I mean. Right. But I'd still keep these beads. Mark, you have a very strong sense of intuition. Just for a minute see what you feel. VOICES: I see you've got to keep going, Guruji...Close your eyes...Amazing vibrations.. GURURAJ: There you are. A hundred thousand for the ashram can have these beads. Anyone. A hundred thousand can have my guru's beads, for the ashram. I won't have it for my pocket. For the ashram.

63. US 86- 31 VOICE: Money. I [????] have a hundred thousand. Maybe if I wrote you a check it would bounce higher than... If I had the money... GURURAJ: Chetenji, any ideas from your side? I mean the best way to go around things? CHETEN: I don't want to take up too much time, Guruji. GURURAJ: Yes, I know you don't want to. You just need to name a figure. [LAUGHTER] CHETEN: Guruji, what about the Canadian Meditation Society? We're really struggling. [??????] my first responsibility. GURURAJ: But, you know, some loose change? VOICES: You gonna have an ashram?...Fifty bucks...We'll move our ashram up to Canada...That's my first responsibility.. GURURAJ: Yes, we've got four meditators there. NIRMALA: Well, that would be very pretty, over in British Columbia, somewhere. GURURAJ: Oh, beautiful. Victoria. Oh, yes we have some plans up there. [We just bought] acres and acres of land up there, and live in one house, and his wife, and all the German shepherd dogs; they would look after the whole place. We'd use a portion of it for an ashram there. [INAUDIBLE] I'm putting ideas into his head. [CONVERSATION CONCERNING PLEDGES] GURURAJ: Twenty four. We can't leave it under fifty, please. Twenty four [INAUDIBLE] Iris, [??????] So, that makes forty five. Right. Five only. Only five, c'mon. It's only five.

64. US 86- 31 VOICE: Hell, I got five. [APPLAUSE] GURURAJ: You have me here in America for six months I'll show you the miracle of miracles. Just give me a start with an ashram, that's all. MERRILL: We had a miracle just now. Fifty thousand dollars in a half hour. VOICE: And California is coming up. GURURAJ: Amongst a few people. You have me here for six months. You'll see miracles. Now, my shoes. I never light a cigarette when I sit in the holy chair. VOICE: Guruji, even though we may have concluded this part of the meeting let's don't close the books for anybody who's here... GURURAJ: No, no, of course not, Ramu, you're quite right. This is just [INAUDIBLE] As you suggested that you appoint committees, then the committee will have more committees and then you have sub committees and then you have sub sub committees, and like that it will go on and on and on and nothing will be done. VOICE: Still, somebody has to make the financial plans, and Ramu will do that. And somebody's got to find a [?????] location...[INAUDIBLE] RAMU: As far as making the financial plans, I'm really not a financial planner, so I'm not sure... GURURAJ: I'm the financial planner, and I don't want my signature, at all, in the deposits. You appoint your own trustees. Fine, and I'll tell you how to invest it at the best rate. Gilt edged. Did I miss you out? VOICE: I can't say anything.. [INAUDIBLE]

65. US 86- 31 GURURAJ: You can't say anything without her husband, right, but just put the name Garber there. You know, and just some zeros. We will add on the figure in front of it. [INAUDIBLE QUESTION TO GURURAJ] GURURAJ: We will discuss it later. VOICE: Guruji, I would also like some time frame for this. GURURAJ: Yes, three months. We decided on that. VOICE: I'm not talking about bringing in the money. I'm referring to plans and getting the [system]. In other words, I'm not willing to donate money that will to go into a bank and may never get used. That is I want to make sure that it is a real thing that is [operating]. GURURAJ: When a person get an idea you can add onto it. The money, of course, will come in within three months. That has been decided upon. If a start has not been made, on the ashram, within, say, three years, you know, towards completion of it, the donor will get back his money, plus the interest that has been earned on it. VOICES: Yeah, I think we'll have to have some kind of legal [?????]... That's very fair...I don't see the follow up steps quite hard enough for my taste. [PARAPHRASED] I'd like to know when Jeff is going to report back with plans, I'd like to know how Ramu is going to [survey]? GURURAJ: Well, give them a time limit and we'll want reports back here in September. So be careful boys. Rather they know if we can't do it. VOICE: September is three months from now [INAUDIBLE] so something would have to be done by the next time... GURURAJ: No, it's not three months, my dear, call it two months. July, August. Don't count September. I might be in early part of September. Two months. [These other few days]?

66. US 86- 31 VOICES: November report...Report in before then...Jamu suggest having a plan ready for people donating money to see. If they like the plan, give the money...That's just a step back...Well, how would you phrase it, then?...Do not ever give a damn cent unless you have a plan. No talk, this is like going to one of these real estate [????] where you sit around and you are high pressured, that who will pay these, who will do this, who will sign here? Don't do it until tomorrow. Think about it. Sleep on it and don't sign until you see the plan. No checks, no nothing. GURURAJ: No, that, I disagree, there with Jamu. Because before, I don't know if you heard me correctly, that a legal document will be drawn up if the thing is not built within three years then the people will get their money back plus the interest that's earned, and the money will be put in a gilt edged, you know, security where there's no chance of a loss; not a gamble, right, and they're losing nothing. **** END ****

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