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1. US 87- 66 Radio Talk Show Warren Freiburg WJOY, Indiana WARREN: I feel a bit like an international tradition this morning. We're talking to Gururaj Ananda Yogi, originally from India, now he's world wide, and I want to get back to that because this business of... so how do I know, Doctor, that what Gururaj Ananda Yogi is doing is not bull? How do I know that what he is going to do or contemplate on this is the real thing? Tell me. ROOPA: You can only know by trying it. That's the only way you can know. I can tell you from my personal experience. And our other meditators that have learned to meditate using his practices designed for themselves individually they can tell you, but you have to try... WARREN: What happens? Let's say you use the individual technique that he gives you. What happens? ROOPA: What happens is you begin to, on a regular basis, experience tremendous peace and relaxation, more than just... WARREN: I couldn't do the radio program if I'm sitting here peaceful every morning. ROOPA: [laughing] Well, actually, while you meditate you experience peace. It clears up the confusion of your mind, and when you come out and do your radio program, or whatever you do in your day, you function much better. WARREN: So I have to do this early in the morning? ROOPA: You do it twice a day. Most people do it in the morning and then they do it when they get back from work or to prepare for the evening. WARREN: Can I ask you specifically what you do?

2. US 87- 66 ROOPA: Well, I can tell you generally what I do, though it still wouldn't give you the experience. WARREN: All right, tell me generally. Do you chant? What do you do? ROOPA: No, I don't chant. I sit down and close my eyes and I do a certain kind of mental practice that takes us an hour and a half to teach someone, so I can't... WARREN: No, I don't expect you to put it on the air. ROOPA: But I do a certain mental practice which is effortless, at the end of which... I spend about 20 30 minutes doing that. I then open my eyes and go about my business. And later on in the day I do a different practice which is a visually oriented practice. Again, I go into deep relaxation. WARREN: What do you see? You say it's visual. ROOPA: Well it's an interior kind of visualization, so it's different every time. But it's very peaceful, very easy, and yet if no one had shown me how to do it I never would have come up with it myself. WARREN: And, Gururaj, this is different for each person? GURURAJ: It is totally different for each person because there are no two human beings alike. Everyone is a unique entity. WARREN: How do you know what to give Warren Freiburg as opposed to Dr. Morosani? How do you know what is what? GURURAJ: I know through meditation. WARREN: God is telling you this?

3. US 87- 66 GURURAJ: I go deep into meditation where the left hemisphere of the brain is overtaken by the right hemisphere, the intuitional side, and then you connect the three sections of your mind, the conscious, subconscious, and the superconscious level, which is your highest level of the mind. And from that area this knowledge is drawn. Therefore I'm a mystic. WARREN: That makes the mystic. OK, I can follow that. That makes the mystic. How long have you been a mystic? One day you wake up and say "I'm a mystic?" You laugh, but how does one get to be a mystic? GURURAJ: Right. When I was about four, four and a half years old, I ran away from home to search for God. WARREN: When you were four and a half? GURURAJ: Ya. Because I've always heard about God and I wanted to know who the hell He was. WARREN: You're colorful, Mr. Guest. GURURAJ: Yea. So from temple to temple walking the streets... WARREN: Of India? GURURAJ: Of India, yes. And of course all those stone idols would not speak to me. But I did enjoy myself because normally what happens in India is when you go to the temple you normally take offerings of fruit to put at the feet of the gods. Meanwhile I enjoyed the fruit. [he laughs] WARREN: So obviously you're not connected with any Buddhist religion or Hindu religion. These are foreign, right? GURURAJ: No. I'm connected with no religion whatsoever. I'm a universalist. I combine the basic teachings of all religions of the world, Hinduism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism... WARREN: Smorgasbord. A little of this, a little of that.

4. US 87- 66 GURURAJ: Not a little of this, a little of that, I take the whole bloomin' lot. WARREN: When you say that you are taking a little bit of Christianity there's got to be a lot of Christians, both Catholic and Protestant a little irritated saying you accept it as it is. GURURAJ: Yea, they won't be irritated, because when you get to the basic points of life, such as love thy neighbor as thyself, for example, right, do unto others as you would expect it to be done unto you, these are basic... WARREN: It doesn't say that. It says do unto others as you would have them do unto you. A subtle difference there, isn't it? You expect them... you don't know if you do unto them whether you expect them to do unto you or not. GURURAJ: Right. Who cares? That's the point. Who cares? WARREN: The point is "who cares"? GURURAJ: I don't. Because I will always do the best and the good for others and if they do me no good, doesn't matter either. Perhaps I deserve it. WARREN: Dr. Morosani, if I may say so, and I may since it's my radio program, I get a certain idea that Gururaj is not at all times the average everyday mystic or philosopher. It seems like he's adapted to the Western world very well. Perhaps even too well. Can you explain that? ROOPA: [laughing] I can't explain it too well, but I will tell you that I've known him for 11 years, and he never ceases to amaze me. WARREN: He's amazed me the last half hour at least two times. [laughter] ROOPA: It's true. It's true. He really breaks the rules, and is sort of his own walking set of rules. I wanted to say about that thing with religions, he doesn't teach Christianity, Buddhism, he doesn't teach a smorgasbord, he teaches the

5. US 87- 66 essence which is really the same. Just as you pointed out, Warren, in all religions the Golden Rule of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" exists in all religions. What he teaches is consistent with the essence of all religions , and he says if a person is a Christian, as I am, they should... WARREN: Oh, you are a Christian? ROOPA: Yes, I am a Christian. WARREN: But you're also his follower. ROOPA: Yes, there's no inconsistency. WARREN: No contradiction. ROOPA: No. What he says if you're a Christian you should become a better Christian. Practice these meditation techniques and you will experience the deeper truths of your own religion, and that's what I find as a Christian that I find. .. WARREN: You are now a better Christian? ROOPA: Yes absolutely. No doubt. WARREN: In what way are you a better Christian? ROOPA: No. I have a greater experience of what it means to love myself and others, to do unto others, to want that. From the peace that I feel I feel more peaceful to others. WARREN: And you absolutely, unequivocally couldn't have had that without his help? ROOPA: Not at the depth at which I experience it, no. I really don't think so. That's my experience. Because I certainly tried different ways to be a good Christian and to feel what I read about in the Bible. However, until I began to practice his techniques that gave me a deeper experience of the peace that passes all understanding, as it's referred to in the Bible, I

6. US 87- 66 really could only read about it but not feel it. So that's what I mean when I say opening the heart is the work of a spiritual master. WARREN: We're going to find out what really happens after death in the opinion of the gentleman who is sitting here and meditating with us this morning, Gururaj Ananda Yogi. By the way, he also has a spiritual retreat coming up, I'm going to tell you about that, and I am intrigued because I've always wanted to know that without benefit of dying. I don't want to go through the experience in the near future. But we're going to find out what happens after death. [commercial] WARREN: Just talking about this is a very unusual program. We're having fun. I'm not yet quite ready for meditating, I'm not ready for that, but I want to find out about death, we'll talk about that in just one second. The Gururaj Ananda Yog i is appearing in the Chicago area in November retreat with Gururaj [??] up around Glenview. Right? ROOPA: In Glenview. WARREN: And if they want more information this costs, right? This does cost something? ROOPA: Yes. It costs. It's a 5 day retreat which costs $350. GURURAJ: Because you've got to pay for accommodations and food there. ROOPA: But it goes from Wednesday to Monday. However, Warren... WARREN: Would you be insulted if I asked you if you make a buck out of this as well? Is that insulting? GURURAJ: Nothing. WARREN: Nothing insults you? Oh, you don't make anything.

7. US 87- 66 GURURAJ: Even these pants I've got on was given to me as a gift, this shirt I've got on was given to me as a gift. Even these shoes I've got on has been given me as a gift. Even the socks. And let's not talk of the underwear. WARREN: No, I won't talk about your underwear. [laughter] You look quite Americanized. You've got a yellow what do you call that? I'm not into fashion. ROOPA: A shirt. WARREN: I know it's a shirt. Is there any special name for it? GURURAJ: A Nehru collar. WARREN: Are those love beads? GURURAJ: These are not love beads, these are meditation beads. WARREN: You don't look like the average person walking the streets of Crown Point, let me put it that way. They'd know you. If you were walking the streets they'd say "There goes Gururaj Ananda Yogi." They'd know you. GURURAJ: They would know me. But when I'm on the streets or in the various airports of the world I put in a Western suit because otherwise I draw too much attention from people and they start bothering you. WARREN: Let's complete a thought here for the people. For the people who are interested in finding out more about this, this is a retreat. Is there an open course to the public as well? ROOPA: Yes, there is. Friday night at 8:00 at this place, the Villa Redeemer, in Glenview, which you can call up and find out about. It's at 8:00 on Friday night and anyone who would like to come...

8. US 87- 66 GUR URAJ: It's an open night. ROOPA: Yes, and experience Gururaj as he is as a teacher. They could come on Friday evening at 8:00. WARREN: Believe me, you'll get him as he is. If you want to get more information, contact Danusha at 312 754 3174, and Danusha can give you all the information about the retreat and the night on Friday where you experience him as he is. ROOPA: And also how to learn to meditate in the way that's designed for you individually, which is really the big value. WARREN: You know, I want to give you one compliment before I ask you about this business of... now Dave Flood, who normally is very tense in the course of the program, he's got a lot of things to do, he's got to answer telephones, he's got to prepare the news, he's got to make sure the commercials go in on time, frankly, he's sitting there Dave, you're not asleep there, are you? He looks as relaxed as I have ever seen this man. Is that right, Dave? DAVE: I do feel a sort of inner peace, I have to admit. GURURAJ: Lovely. It's really because I'm here. WARREN: [?????] Gururaj Ananda Yogi? DAVE: Well, I really am quite tense during the show. WARREN: So I tell you, we should probably have him around on a daily basis. DAVE: I wouldn't mind at all. GURURAJ: Dave, you went to bed at half past two this morning. WARREN: Did you?

9. US 87- 66 DAVE: You've been following me, Sir, haven't you. No, I did get to bed quite late last night. WARREN: Are you saying this as a point of fact that you know this? GURURAJ: Yes. WARREN: How do you know that? Are you psychic? GURURAJ: Just by looking at him. WARREN: Oh yea, he looks like he went to bed early this morning. In this book you have that is upcoming, What Really Happens After Death, let's go back to that. By the way, your current book which I assume is available at book stores... GURURAJ: Yea, at book stores or from our address down there for the American Meditation Society... ROOPA: Or by calling that number Danusha. WARREN: The book we're talking about is From Darkness to Light, and it's a very handsome picture. I would never believe some of the things coming out of your mouth by looking at this picture. You look like a completely different individual in this picture. Very distinguished. [Gururaj laughs.] ROOPA: We call him "the man of many faces." WARREN: Indeed. Let me go back to this what happens after death, because I am very intrigued with this. I always wanted to know without going through the act. What happens? GURURAJ: Right. Now, I'm half way through this new book, What Really Happens After Death. But let me just give you one or two principles of it. There have been a few doctors that wrote books like Life After Life, there's another one I think I heard mentioned also, and they are talking rubbish.

10. US 87- 66 WARREN: I'd clarify that. This is the truth, that's rubbish. GU RURAJ: Now let me tell you what happens. From the examination of people that were on the verge of dying or just near death, they found people going through a dark tunnel. This is the report of the doctors. WARREN: Yes. I've talked to those doctors. I've talked to Dr. Kubler Ross. I've talked to many of these people, yes. GURURAJ: Right. And then they also said that a light comes from somewhere to fetch you. That's also rubbish. This experience of going through the tunnel is this, that your conscious mind merges in the subconscious mind, and the subconscious mind merges in the superconscious mind. There is no light that comes to fetch you. The light is within you which you are projecting out of you, and that is what you are observing when you reach the superconscious level of your mind. WARREN: You know, I don't mean to make light of that, but I keep thinking of that song, "The knee bone's connected to the ankle bone." Everything is kind of connected one to the other, then, you're saying. GURURAJ: Right. It's all connected. This light that you see, WARREN, is you own inner light, the Kingdom of Heaven within. WARREN: Ok, the moment you die, which I assume you've never had the experience, right? GURURAJ: Oh, I die every moment. WARREN: On this radio program I die several times a morning. [laughter] But what I'm asking you is what happens the very moment of death and we'll find out. It's quarter past 9, mostly cloudy, rainy today. We're talking with the Gururaj an d he is here in person [END SIDE ONE].

11. US 87- 66 WARREN: Ahhh, if you don't talk we're going to have a problem right there. Which one of those names do you feel more comfortable with? You know, we're not going to do much writing. Are we in communication? Yea, we're on the air right now. Doctor... you're going to write that to me? Well, can you speak to me? GURURAJ: Yes. What would you like to ask me about? You can go on any question you like. WARREN: For a second I thought we weren't going to talk to each other. GURURAJ: Well, I can do meditation in silence, but then your radio station would be off. WARREN: That's right. In radio that wouldn't do very much. [laughter] We're talking with each other. You're a spiritual master. You feel more comfortable with that particular designation. GURURAJ: Yes, I'm comfortable with everything. You can even call me a street sweeper and I would still be comfortable with that. WARREN: I want to give you the title you feel you're deserving. GURURAJ: Because the purpose of life is to be humble and find the true humility within oneself. Then the purpose of life is served. Because the main trouble in the world today is stress, strain caused by pride. WARREN: In other words, we should not be proud. GURURAJ: You should not be proud of any attainment you have. I might have half a dozen Ph.D's behind my name, but what does that matter? As long as I'm human and living decently as a human being, loving everyone around me, expressing the love through kindness and compassion. WARREN: Ok. We got off to a rough start here. You love everybody, right? GURURAJ: Yes, I do.

12. US 87- 66 WARREN: You are a spiritual master. Do you have academic degrees behind your name? GURURAJ: Oh, about four Ph.D's. WARREN: Out of India? GURURAJ: Oh, yea, India, Lancaster, England. All over. WARREN: So you have a background in philosophy. That's a credit. But you say you shouldn't be proud of that because you shouldn't be proud of anything. GURURAJ: No, definitely not. WARREN: You are a spiritual master, and didn't I detect a little pride in saying that? Huh? GURURAJ: No. That is what they call me. It's not something I have designated myself. But people call me a spiritual master, they call me a father, a friend... WARREN: Dr. Morosani, your companion here, your relationship here with the guru is what? ROOPA: It's one of having learned his spiritual techniques, his meditation techniques, and having listened to him speak as a philosopher. WARREN: So would you agree that he is a spiritual master? ROOPA: Yes, I would. WARREN: All right. Why is he a spiritual master?

13. US 87- 66 ROOPA: Well, of course a person decides for him or her self what would be the criteria that would make them say this person is a master. WARREN: Well, tell me the criteria. It's 8:35 in the morning. People are just on their first cup of coffee, and they're saying, "Spiritual master...?" GURURAJ: Right. Enjoy the coffee. ROOPA: Have a sip for us. A spiritual master, in my book, as far as I’m concerned, is one who can open the heart, who can cut through all of the stuff that we put around ourselves that obscures our ability to love one another. Simple as that. He speaks to the heart and cuts through the layers of the mind and the emotions that we all make up that... WARREN: Gururaj Ananda Yogi, say something to my heart. I'm not I recall now meeting you years ago. Maybe I'm not quite as cynical as I may have been back then. But speak to my heart. Say something that will make me say I love people a little more than I did before I started the broadcast. GURURAJ: Well, I tell you I love you. Isn't that speaking to the heart? WARREN: Why would you love me? We're different backgrounds, different cultures, why would you love me? GURURAJ: Hold on. I don't say this from the mind. Because I do not really love. I am love, and therefore this love radiates around me to make you love me, thereby opening your heart. WARREN: Are you sending out certain signals and all of a sudden I'm going to love you before we end this interview? GURURAJ: Of course. It's sent out already. I could see the smile on your face, the beautiful... WARREN: I'm glad, I thought for a moment you weren't going to talk to me and I thought we had a real problem. [GR laughs]. You know, I'll always remember you. [laughter] There are certain interviews you always recall, believe me. I ask

14. US 87- 66 a few questions and you're looking at me like you're not going to answer me. Boy, am I going to remember you. So so you and I talk. I like you now a lot more than I liked you about three or four minutes ago. GURURAJ: No. Don't like me. WARREN: Don't like you? GURURAJ: Love me. WARREN: Love you. GURURAJ: That's it. And by spreading your love to me you give me 10 percent, and I'll give you 90 percent. You make a little start with your 10 percent and your 90 percent... WARREN: Should I keep an open mind to what we're talking about? GURURAJ: You can keep an open mind, but open your heart more. WARREN: Open the heart. I've got to take a break here while I open the heart. It's raining here today. If you're saying to yourself, "Who is this man?" we'll explain it all to you. [commercial]. They're going to love during this portion of the program. Are you ready to love? I was a little frightened there for a second that Gururaj Ananda Yogi was off in his own world, but you're in this world. You're with me. GURURAJ: I'm with you entirel y. WARREN: My radio studio, 20 minutes before 9:00, day before Thanksgiving, we're all together.

15. US 87- 66 GURURAJ: Right. We're all together, and such a pleasure to be together. My blessings to all your listeners. WARREN: I will wait to give you my verdict on that until we part because you're telling me that I'm going to love you more by the time we get through than I care for you right now. Right? GURURAJ: Um hm. WARREN: I mean, I don't dislike you now, you're a fine man. But you're a little strange. Can I say that to you without offending you? GURURAJ: No, no, of course. Spiritual masters are strange because they convey a different message to you. And those of you that are so externally minded would find it difficult to understand one who is self realized and one with God. So therefore you find me a bit strange. WARREN: You literally right now feel that you and God have perfect communion? GURURAJ: Total communion. And you can ask my hundreds of thousands of followers that in their presence I go into communion with God... WARREN: What does that mean to have perfect communion with God? GURURAJ: To become one with Him as Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." And to find that oneness with the Father is the total purpose of life. WARREN: Do you feel better because of this communion? Do you feel differently? GURURAJ: I live as an ordinary human being, very simply, very humbly.

16. US 87- 66 WARREN: Your Chicago area contact, when I was booking this program, told me that you had a little trouble getting here at this early hour of the morning because you stay up all night. Is that right? GURURAJ: Yes, most of the time. I think I went to bed about 3:00, 4:00 this morning. WARREN: Why? Why do you do that? GURURAJ: Being in communion with God. WARREN: So that' what you're doing at 2:00 in the morning, or something like that. You are directly in communion? GURURAJ: That's true. All the time. At every moment of the day I'm in communion. Because I find Him non separate from myself. WARREN: You're in direct communion right now? GURURAJ: Immediately. And how do I express that, that communion? WARREN: Are you doing your own interview? But that's a good question. How do you express that? GURURAJ: Well, I'm trying to tell you. I'll interview you. WARREN: That's fine, that's fine. One of us will talk then. GURURAJ: Good. Right. Now being in communion with God you express it through loving every creature on earth. WARREN: We're back to love. GURURAJ: Even the crawling ant, I love because it has life. And what is life? Life is God.

17. US 87- 66 WARREN: I can sit back. You're doing the whole interview. You're doing the questions and the answers. Right. One of us is not necessary. GURURAJ: Ok. Right. WARREN: Do you want me to go? GURURAJ: Yea, get out. ROOPA: No [laughing]. GURURAJ: Right. You ask me questions. Come on. WARREN: We'll have an understanding here for a few minutes. Let's talk about love for just one second. I like that idea. It's the day before Thanksgiving. All America is going to be thankful. Let's talk about the idea of the kind of peace we want in America. How do we achieve that? How do people become more peaceful? How do we have love? GURURAJ: Um hum. Very interesting question. WARREN: Are you crying? You're wiping your eyes. Irritation to the smoke? GURURAJ: Yea, yea, yea. The change of weather I've just come from a hot climate in South Africa. WARREN: Oh, you're in South Africa. Well, they certainly need some peace, don' they. GURURAJ: Don't we, really. But let's not talk politics. I've got to go back to South Africa. WARREN: Let's talk about peace and love.

18. US 87- 66 GURURAJ: Right. Now the thing which does not give us peace is because our minds are so fragmented, and my teachings are based not on fragmentation but to bring that fragmentation to integration where the mind, body, and spirit, or whatever you want to call it, can work in harmony. That is the way how you find peace within yourself. And when you find that peace within yourself, automatically you start loving. WARREN: Now most people don't have peace within themselves, right? We'll agree on that? GURURAJ: Ninety nine point nine. WARREN: We get up in the morning and say we've got to do some jobs we don't want to do, meet some people we don't want to talk to, and all of a sudden have a miserable day. Right? That's an average day, whether you're in sales, or... GURURAJ: Right. That would be your perspective. For example, a favorite quote of mine: 2 men behind prison bars, one saw mud, the other saw stars. Both in the same cell behind the same prison bars. But the one, not having the proper perspective of life, could only see the gloom of the mud, while the other with a greater, higher perspective, or more integrated would see the glory of the stars. WARREN: So some people would say the fellow who is in the cell who is incarcerated who cannot get out doesn't understand the situation if he's talking of the glory of the start, which obviously he's not near, he's not going to be very near. This guy's in jail. Sounds like [the next?] [an ex?] governor of Illinois. GURURAJ: Well, nevertheless, if I would be put in jail I think it'll be a happy period for me because I could go into deeper and deeper meditation without having to do anything else. WARREN: What about the fact that you wouldn't have what we've all grown accustomed to? You wouldn't have the correct sanitary facilities, you wouldn't have people to talk to, you'd be cut off from humanity. Would that bother you at all? GURURAJ: No, it won't because the idea man has to develop is acceptance of yourself, and when you can accept yourself you can accept the entire world.

19. US 87- 66 WARREN: Now, you say many times you stay up all night getting in a meditative state, communing with God. How do you do that? GURURAJ: Oh, how can one explain that? It is a personal experience, and those around me, hundreds of thousands of people around the world, and my organization, which we call the International Foundation for Spiritual Unfoldment is established in many many countries around the globe. WARREN: So you tell people how to do that? GURURAJ: I teach then how to do that. WARREN: What do you tell them? I'm trying to get a picture. Do you sit there and contemplate your navel, do you look out at the stars, what do you do? GURURAJ: No, that's bullshit. WARREN: Yes, I think that said it. That said it. GURURAJ: That said it. No. Everyone is prescribed to individually according to their temperament, the emotions, the feelings, the spiritual make up, and their evolution. So everyone is prescribed to individually. To give you an example, I do the prescription as a doctor would. Then I have over 800 teachers around the world who are the dispensers. and after a little form is filled in we just give little primary details: age, occupation, blah, blah... WARREN: They become teachers? GURURAJ: No, no, no, no, my teachers are individually... ROOPA: They learn to meditate.

20. US 87- 66 WARREN: I'm not quite sure what they get. Thank you, doctor. Let's keep this on a high level. I think we're deteriorating there. Alright, they fill out a little form. For what are they filling out a form? GURURAJ; They fill out the form and the form is sent to me with a little picture of them, a passport sized picture, fine, good. And I use the picture as a focal point and I go into meditation, and in that state there is no space and no time. There's no distance. I'm together with the person. I feel their vibrations. I analyze the vibrations. WARREN; You literally come to these people? GURURAJ: Yes. WARREN: And do what? If I gave you my picture and I'm filling out this form, what are you going to do with me? GURURAJ: Right. Then I would go, using your picture as a focal point, I go into deep meditation and I am with you there. WARREN: Do I feel better because of this? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. WARREN: Can you explain it, Doctor? ROOPA: Yes. I would just like to explain that what Gururaj would do, Warren, of you submit the form and a picture is he would prescribe for you a series or a collection of meditative techniques, ways of... visual or mental or breathing practices , a whole different combination for each person which you would practice on your own at home maybe twice a day, something like that, on a daily basis, and this would put you into greater alignment with your own center of peace. WARREN: But this would be individual for me, not necessarily for you or Dave Flood. Just for me. ROOPA: Yes. The bunch of things that you would do you'd be the only person in the world doing. It would fit, it would be designed for you personally.

21. US 87- 66 WARREN: To paraphrase so we'll keep this on a high intellectual level, this would not be bull. You get the idea. ROOPA: Yes, I do. As a matter of fact, there are some that are bull. I have been interested and involved in these things for 25 years. I've tried many different practices. This is the very best because it is designed for each one individually. WARREN: Ok, that's what I want to get to. Because we have heard a lot of people who are self described yogis running around this country and I think a lot of them sit there and get rich... ROOPA: Me too. I do too. WARREN: You too. What's the difference? We'll find that out together [commercial] [End of tape. We do not have a tape 2 if there was one.]


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