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3. SA77- 20 projection instils a certain power in the emotional life of man whereby any emotion that arises does not affect him and it becomes non-binding. It becomes non-binding karmically. In other words, the emotion will arise, but to subside again, it will not generate. It will not generate another emotion. Good. So we being the repository or a storehouse of emotions which have come about through thousands and thousands and thousands of lives, those emotions were created by us through thousands of lives we have lived. Good. Some people might have love as a greater credit balance and some might have hatred as a greater credit balance depending how they have lived through their lives. Fine, so this will be with us as long as this body goes. This will be with us. We will have our emotional turmoils, turbulences and emotional peace as well. Good, but when we can separate ourselves, when we can separate ourselves from the emotional life, then the anguish that is created in man, which is another emotion will not be there. It cannot exist and so slowly these emotions die away. They loose their power. They are not being fed. They do not become self perpetuating anymore and that is how these emotions subside, the Sa mskaras that are behind emotions drop away slowly because if the observer is there, and in the very act of observation he transmit an energy, that energy destroys those emotions, dissolves those emotions and that is part of the Hindu trinity, creator, preserver and dissolver, destroyer. So within ourselves so many trinities are found and even in the emotional life, there is a trinity, how it is created, how it is preserved and how it is dissolved again. So, spiritual quest is one of the hardest task s or the hardest task in man's life. To conquer the smaller self and live as the bigger self is no joke -- it’s no joke. It requires conscious effort in living, backed by our meditational practices which give us the strength. So the whole process could be put in the nut shell when observer and observation becomes one that which is observed might be dissolved, but even in dissolution is no distraction, dissolution does not mean distraction. So the emotional life of man is dissolved into another element, an elevation whereby it could merge away into the higher self. So it is not destroyed and as soon as we start erring, making mistakes, then the process would reverse itself. We’re even off emergent because even emergence and embodied and being an embodied person, the process can be reversed where the emotional life of man having become so fine that could merge away into that finest of the higher self can still separate itself away. So people that are unrealised have a hard task towards realisation, but the realised man has a harder task still to preserve that which is realised because it is logical if a grosser substance can become subtler, then the subtler substance can become grosser again. Water vapour can become ice, a block of ice and the same block of ice can become water vapour again. So in these throws of emotional life, man comes across what he calls suffering. Pleasures are few; pains are many and yet there is a balance because one ounce of love can be balanced with 20 tonnes of hatred. It can be balanced because love is of a subtle quality while hatred is a grosser quality. Hatred requires bulk, love requires subtlety. See yes, so the process

4. SA77- 20 towards controlling the emotional life of man is to be able to go beyond the emotions through meditational practices and observe the emotions. I always say if the monkeys are jumping in the tree and if you want them quiet, you don’t go and shake the tree, they jump more (laughs), you leave them alone and they settle down. So what we require is for emotions to settle down, let them settle down and once they settle down, their breathing becomes slower too like ours, we are also monkeys (laughs). So when they settle down, they loose the power of activating itself. Now this is very logical because emotion has the quality of self perpetuation and you, by letting it settle down, you don’t give it a chance to perpetuate itself and by not giving it a chance to perpetuate itself, by not feeding it, it dissolves, it becomes finer, finer, finer until those ver y emotions become merged in us in the higher self. That is the secret, that is the path, that is the way, that is the life, that is the truth and that is how man evolves. So the emotional life of a man is a very important aspect of man, is a very important aspect of man and psychologists and psychiatrists will tell you that the greater part of man's action is motivated or stimulated by the emotional self, rather th an the thinking self and thank God for that because the mind, the thinking ability can become a very devious instrument and can lead man more astray than the emotions because one part of your questions that asked -- question that asked where does emotions reside? Good. Now, there is no particular place of its residence, we could not say emotions is my left hand or my right foot, no. Emotion is the sum totality; emotion is the sum totality of the output of a particular kind of feeling. So emotion is part and parcel of the atmosphere created by that person. Atmosphere without himself, outside himself and also in himse lf , that is where emotion resides and when we begin controlling emotion from the inner self where energies are drawn to subdue the emotion, then naturally its outward aspect would get influenced too, would be affected too. So by calming the emotion from within, all his expression without is automatically controlled. Good, fine. This is a subject w e could go on for many hours -- many hours, okay? Is that enough or not? (Laughs) Public: Guruji, can I ask you another question for that? Gururaj: Hmm Public: When you have reached the stage, should we say emotionless devotion -- Gururaj: Beautiful (laughs) Public: -- How do you know the difference between that and < 0:21:53.6 > ?

6. SA77- 20 Gururaj: Ah beautiful. Indifference can be called detachment -- indifference can be called detachment. So what is the difference between detachment and non-attachment? Good. Detachment means that you separate yourself from that which is. You separate yourself for whatever reason, it could be a form of escapism where you detach yourself and become indifferent. Good. Non-attachment is to be with that which is and yet not be affected. That is non-attachment. Good. In other words, as the Bible would say, “in the world but not of the world,” that is non-attachment. There too -- there too one can achieve that quality of non-attachment if one has control over the emotional self of man because giving the emotions its full range and range of play, it is instrumental in forming attachments. Good. So by controlling the emotional side of man, one could be led to non-attachment where you could enjoy all the beauties of nature, where you could observe all those things that are not so beautiful and yet be apart from it, not be affected by it. So the difference between detachment and non-attachment is simply this that detachment you become indifferent to things, you escape from things because of weakness, a detached person is a weak person and escapist is always weak, but -- but a non-attached person is the one that jumps into the water, not run away from it and swims and reaches the shore. Okay? Fine. Public: < 0:29:59.3 > could you say that if somebody, for example, is confronted with some information about suffering here and there in the world and doesn’t -- can’t in fact do anything about it. Is it -- is it a kind of escapism not to allow one s self to get emotionally involved. Gururaj: Would you get affected by the suffering that you’ve heard about? Public: If one knows that it’s the nature of life for there to be suffering in a very -- on a very large level and it is already acknowledged, then its not really new to have examples of it. Gururaj: True, but by hearing of the suffering of the world you, and never say you have done nothing about it, by hearing of the suffering of the world and as soon as you feel the compassion rising in your heart, you have done something. You have done something because of the feeling of compassion; you have done something in the sense of affecting the vibrations that were set up. So compassion being a positive quality, you are sending forth, your hands might be tied, you might not be able to do anything actively, but the very act of feeling compassionate, you are then and there sending off positive thoughts, positive vibrations that in a great measure or a lesser measure could help the situation. Good. So whenever we feel with when we have emotions that are positive, fine. We do not discourage them, but yet, the aim would be to go beyond them and yet after going beyond, you do not become detached, after going beyond, you know the secret

7. SA77- 20 of non-attachment. Then you are in a stronger position to be of active health -- to be of active health and if you cannot be of active health, your thought force, the positive thoughts that is generated in you will effect the situation even more powerfully because you are now infusing that thought force with the higher self, the bigger self, the big S. Public: Now should one necessarily cultivate some kind of thought force in that same? For example, using the same instance somebody talks about something that's happening in the world. Gururaj: Um-hmm. Public: If it doesn’t invoke in you any particular response, would it be an active devotion to cultivate that kind of thing? Gururaj: Higher feelings normally come spontaneously. Public: Yes. Gururaj: Higher feelings normally come spontaneously, but now what must the man do that is not spontaneous? So therefore -- therefore all laws of morality and ethics would teach you that make conscious effort because the mind and the emotion, emotions are patterned. They are patterned by our very thoughts and actions. So by conscious effort, we can change the pattern, we can change the pattern in such a way that those feelings and thoughts will come spontaneously later. So conscious effort is required in daily living, one must not think that because good feelings don’t come to me spontaneously, I must carry on doing bad things, that would be wrong, that would be against all the laws of nature and of religion. Some people might teach that by doing meditational practices you develop the spontaneity, that is very true. You develop that because your mind and body will be filled with the higher vibrations that you have reached during medi tation , you’ve brought the higher vibration from that level to the grosser level that helps, but that is not the full story, the other side is conscious effort. So there has to be conscious effort in all our endeavours, we have to pattern and program our mind because as it is, we are working with a patterned and programmed mind. Our patterning and programming of the mind could be negative programming. So with conscious effort, we change the negative programming into positive programming and by instilling it with greater positivity, those positive thoughts and feelings that arise will then arise spontaneously <0:35:28.0> good, fine. Anyone else? Public: Just to carry that a little further --

8. SA77- 20 Gururaj: By all means please do. Public: < 0:35:40.0 > if somebody put, for example, points out that the sky is blue and you put your attention it. You were subconsciously aware overtime, but then someone puts your mind to it, and once emotional state doesn’t undergo any significant, one couldn’t say it is becoming positi ve or negative. It’s not either. Gururaj: Um-hmm. Public: Umm, would it be a good thing to try and say uplift any kind of envision one has? For example, if one looks at the flower, should it be one’s motive to try and seek something deeper in it? Is there anything one can do consciously to approve perhaps one’s sense of beauty? Gururaj: When it comes to the emotional self of man, it has more to do with feeling, because emotion is feeling rather than an objective mental analysis. Now in your observation of the sky which is blue, you are not using the principle of feeling. You are using the principle of seeing, which is analysed by the mind. Good. So -- so observing a flower, you do not need to pretend the flower is beautiful, you cannot observe the beauty. Good But when it comes to human relationships, when it comes to dealing with other entities which too are alive, there conscious effort is required because your very emotional action will definitely have reflection or effect on the emotional self of the other person. Good. Now to instil beauty in the flower, even if it is not there is the work of a person at a high state of realisation because then to him, in all ugliness there is beauty, fine. But at our level, we do not use the analogies of a person that is realised, self realised . We talk of the things which is practical to us here and now. We do not need to instil consciously beauty into something that we are not capable of perceiving, but because we are capable of feeling and our feelings affect the feeling of our brother, there conscious effort is required. Yes, and this does not mean falsity. This does not mean pretence, this means this can be achieved by a very common sense approach to the problem. Therefore the Bible says, “Do unto others that you would do onto yourself". Now to know that at its highest level requires self realisation and then automatically you’d be doing onto others that you would do unto yourself. There is spontaneity. But when a person has not reached those nights, what does he do? He has to put it conscious effort -- conscious effort and every person is born with common sense, every person has that. Every person has the ability unless he is a sick person, mentally deranged, has the ability to see what is right and what is wrong. And by the mind helping us to discriminate between what is right and what is wrong,

9. SA77- 20 then we must consciously follow that which is right and if we cannot do it , we go to a guide or we go to the scriptures, we do that, yes. At our offices here, we have all kinds of people coming. This week a young lady comes to see me. She tells me that she has a boyfriend and she has become pregnant, all her friends and her relatives and their parents tell her, “Go and have an abortion” but she was not happy. She wanted an answer so she thought she would come to me. I explained to her, “You want to have this abortion for what reason? To please your parents? You have done an act, it is done. We are not going to cry over spilt milk, I'm not going to moralise with you. Why did you do this and why did you do that? Let us discuss what is today. You are pregnant, you will have a child, must you get rid of the child or must you preserve the child?” Good. So then of course, I explained to him into very great details about when you have not the ability to give life, what right have you to take life? And we went into far deeper -- deeper details and she left convinced that abortion would be wrong for her. You have committed a certain act and you must be responsible for that act, you must be responsible for your actions. So in bringing up your child, if you have any difficulty, know that those difficulties were created by you or one sin is not going to be alleviated by committing another sin. Two negatives don’t make a positive. Good. And you are a young woman; there is a whole life ahead of you. Let us not start off the life with murder, be responsible and how do you know that through th at child, a change of heart won’t take place in your boyfriend? How do you know? So be hopeful even if no change takes place in your boyfriend, but a lot of changes will take place in you, you will discover what goodness is, you will discover what morality is. What ethics are and how life must be lived. You will discover the value of life and in the value you will find greater and greater beauty. Value will become invaluable, it will become invaluable to you because this too can be a path for your inner unfoldment for the realisation of yourself, good. So when we are faced with a problem, right. When we have trouble discriminating, we go to a person who knows or if in the absence of that, we can go to our scriptures, all the answers are there. Right? (laughs) It’s fine. Anyone else? Public: < 0:43:52.6 > have to seek elsewhere < 0:43:59.5 > Gururaj: The -- the -- the spirit whose physical life has been terminated will naturally reincarnate again. Public: Seek elsewhere?

10. SA77- 20 Gururaj: It will, true. It might even come to the same parent (laughs), yes -- yes, might even come to the same parent. Public: Gururaj, c ould you explain to us the action and reaction when a person progresses spiritually, the fact that it is almost <0:44:41.7> obstacles or a test would be brought to him more into the person who will have to go spiritual admission at all or effort <0:44:54.8 >? Gururaj: Yeah, I'm < 0:44:54.8 > Public: You’ve had your present experience. Gururaj: Yes, only why I know exactly what you mean. Umm -- when a person pursues a spiritual path, will he undergo greater suffering or lesser suffering? Good. Now, they say ignorance is bliss, so the ignorant man might be undergoing so much suffering, but he is in that ignorant bliss. He does not understand it. Good. A primitive man in Central Africa would seem happy to us, while a highly civilised man in the city here will seem unhappy to us, fine. But look at the range now that suffering of the man in spiritual quest, he is going through a cleansing process, throwing the dirt out -- throwing the dirt out and throwing the dirt out to that person who is not guided will think that that is suffering. But if he is guided through meditational processes, through living a better quality of life, through changing his aspect or angle of vision, that very suffering could become joyful. That very suffering could become joyful because by understanding what is happening, by understanding what is happening, the sting is taken out where he can look at the situation objectively, unemotionally, can look at the situation unemotionally and not be affected by the situation so therefore the suffering can become joy. Good. So the person on the spiritual path quickens the cleansing process, the ignorant person who is not on the spiritual path is still lying there in the dirt. They tell me that in the Himalayan snows, if you have an accident and fall down in the snow and you are on the verge of dying, then at that time the snow becomes so warm that you do not feel like getting up. You feel comfortable, good. So the ignorant man is lying in this comfort although it is killing him. The same man in the Himalayan snows, if he would leave that comfort that he's feeling and get up and let his blood circulate, his life might have still bee n there. His life might have not been terminated. So the ignorant person would still be in the whirlpool and being in the wh irlpool, will not be conscious of all that which is happening to him. The realisations to him will come late. As the primitive man advances, he will appreciate greater and greater beauty, but with the development of that sense of greater beauty, he has also developed the sense of seeing greater and greater ugliness. So man today basically is going through a transitional period. There are only two types of people that can be happy, the one is the primitive and the other is the

11. SA77- 20 enlightened man. The rest are in between but the happiness of the primitive man and the bliss of the realised man are two things apart. You always use the analogy of sound, sound at a very low pitch is inaudible and sound at a very high pitch too is inaudible, but the range so different they are at opposite poles. So when man in the transitional stage who is on the spiritual path comes across things which he would call suffering, if he develops the understanding that this is necessary, as soon as he realises that this cleaning process is necessary, then the suffering would become joyful. As soon as man accepts the principle that whatever you sow you shall reap, then that reaping in whichever form, if it is good reaping, more joy. If it is bad reaping, there would be suffering, but the suffering would be looked at from a different vision and he will know that I will not do this action again that has brought this about. There his awareness expands. So what we term as suffering has great -- great value, it expands ones awareness, it expands ones cognition, it expands ones understanding and at the same time it expands ones feeling. The heart opens up. Have we not seen the beautiful heart that opens up in someone that has some suffering? How -- how kind, soft, gentle that heart becomes and that is the process that nature has put in us, the mechanism that nature has put in us to go beyond the subject, yes. So when the mind is expanded and the heart is softened, there emergence take place, of mind and heart and that -- that is how all suffering is shed away slowly but surely, is all thrown off. But in the throwing off process through our practices of meditation, we develop the strength, through our understanding of the philosophy underlying our meditation -- meditational practices we develop a vision to view whatever lot is ours, to view our lot objectively and by viewing our lot that is there objectively, then suffering <0:52:10.2> and one day when we reach a state of self realisation, then a king’s feast given to you will be enjoyed and a dry piece of bread will be equally enjoyed -- will be equally enjoyed. The enjoyment and the joy we find would be appreciated more. The king’s feast too would be appreciated and the dry piece of bread too would be appreciated but both would be self-satisfying and then eating the dry piece of bread will not make us anchor for the king's feast. That too brings about non-attachment; that too brings about control of the emotional life, that's the way it works. (Laughs) okay? Public: Swamiji, umm -- we talk about being on the spiritual path, can one really say that any phases of manifested life is not on a spiritual path? Umm -- at certain times one is -- one seems to experiences in life umm tremendous frequency of growth and other times <0:53:27.4> and also an incredible variety of -- of aspects of consciousness, but is there any form of life which is not actually growing <0:53:36.1> quality of experience and <0:53:40.1>

12. SA77- 20 Gururaj: Beautiful -- beautiful -- beautiful, there is no form of life in the universe that is not growing. Every form of life, everything in the universe is forever evolving. Why do we want to be on the spiritual path? The reason being this, the reason of wanting to be on the spiritual path is to find the ultimate bliss and going on the spiritual path is the method to accelerate, to reach there quicker or otherwise, everyone, every entity being controlled by the laws of evolution will one day reach the ultimate gold consciously or unconsciously will reach there, but what will take two million years and if there is a way that that can be achieved in twenty years, why wait for the two million and go through all that suffering? Go through all that suffering upon suffering upon suffering? It is not necessary because man being essentially divine and the nature of divinity is not suffering; suffering too here is a super imposition and a creature, a creation of the ego of the small self. Good. So therefore, the process will always be through whichever path the subjugation, the dissolution of the small self so that it merges away into the big self. So everyone will reach home. It is the destiny of everyone to reach home, but we go on the spiritual path to reach home quicker. We don’t want to spend millions of years in the turmoil, in the -- in the wheel, the karmic wheel that turns round and round and round. We want to reach the <0:56:03.8> that is forever still amidst the turning of the wheel. Okay? Public: Guruji, in the book of Job, the man goes through every type of suffering, he loses everything, but the end he says a very significant thing, he says that which I have feared has come upon me, why this fear <0:56:32.2> dynamic than faith? Gururaj: Good, because why is fear more dynamic than faith? Because being a person of a patterned mind, now the -- the greater impetus of any form of patterning when it comes to human values would be the negative qualities which are always more forceful and in us fear being dominant because we have been fearing for millions of years through various lifetimes. It is instilled in us little by little, drop by drop. So having fear as a dominant quality in us, we have failed to appreciate faith. Fear is an emotion that does not necessarily require logic, but when we talk of faith, then we want logic. You see how we contradict ourselves? When it comes to a matter of faith, then we want to know why and how and what for? Yes. But when it comes to fear, we just fear. We just feel afraid without <0:57:57.1> or reason. Isn’t that the common experience? We don’t analyse our fears, but we will analyse faith, we don’t want to analyse fear, we analyse faith, now that the wrong angle, the wrong perspective. If we analyse fear and know the truth behind the fear, the fear will disappear -- fear disappear immediately -- immediately because fear has no reality. Fear is created as a fixture of the mind. Fear is created by the mind. Now faith -- faith is also carried by the mind but it is empowered by the higher self within man, by the subtle energy residing within man which forms the basis and the impetus of faith while fear has no foundation. It is a

13. SA77- 20 fixture of the mind but as we know, whatever we want to perpetuate consciously can be perpetuated, fear or faith. Yeah? (Laughs ). Public: < 0:59:33.8 > Gururaj: Sorry? Public: Umm sorry, that -- that brings me back fear and -- and faith and spiritual path, if every living soul umm -- would go the spiritual path, wouldn’t all our fearful thinking or would our problems in the world, umm -- I'm thinking of wars and -- Gururaj: < 0:59:57.3 > Public: -- violence and <0:59:59.1> of all violent things in the world, wouldn’t it be eliminated? Gururaj: It would be, but the biggest word is “if” (laughs). Public: So why -- why < 1:00:12.6 > people? Gururaj: The biggest word is “why” (laughs). Public: < 1:00:21.9 > G ururaj: Oh < 0:59:59.1 >you're so -- you're so beautiful, you're very beautiful < 1:00:25.0 > . The questions of forever, if, why, why not, but what we do in our foundation, we do. Public: So we should encourage people. Gururaj: Must always -- always encourage, o yes. Public: Umm just < 1:00:42.1 > (laughs)

14. SA77- 20 Gururaj: Good. That is -- that is very true. Public: < 1:00:49.0 > Gururaj: To -- to find -- to find perfection in the imperfection, that is the system. Public: < 1:00:58.4 > (laughs) Gururaj: That is one, one angle -- Public: < 1:01:06.4 > (Laughs) Gururaj: Man is essentially -- man is essentially perfect -- man is essentially perfect and all the imperfections that we see are super imposed, making perfection impossible, but now between the I and the M, if we put an apostrophe, then you will know “I’m possible”. Impossible and apostrophe between the I and the M, making the Im into I'm, I'm possible. There we find perfection. Public: < 1:01:56.3 > Gururaj: If we come to the realisations, if we come to that stage of perfection within ourselves, then we will fail to see all im perfection outside, yes. Now, this world necessarily being governed by the three gunas, would have its imbalances and those very imbalances we call imperfection. Imbalances we call imperfection so there to its all the im's, him's everywhere that causes the trouble. So all the imbalance, the im there, impossible, the im there, the imperfection, the Im there, all those ims we gather together and just put an apostrophe between it (laughs) yes, yes. Public: < 1:02:57.2 > (Laughs) Guruji, I -- I want to ask a question < 1:03:04.5 > interesting. When a question is asked, I already hear your answer before you start speaking and I think other people, some other people are having the same experience -- Gururaj: Yes.

15. SA77- 20 Public: I don’t think it’s that we are answering the question, < 1:03:16.8 > to your vibrations < 1:03:31.5 >. Gururaj: Yes, now that is very true because what happens in satsang and what -- why people are encouraged to come to satsang is this that many kinds of knowledge c an be picked up through reading books, but it has not got the spiritual impulse that another human can convey. That is the purpose why there are gurus in this world, because they appeal not only to the mind, but also to the heart. You see, the book would only be mind, but the human impulse of the heart is missing, it is missing and a true guru is one that does not only convince the mind or -- or give explanations to the mind, but stirs the heart whereby those explanations can be analysed and felt and a beautiful combination is brought about. Now in the relationship between a guru and his chelas, a communication, a channel is created; a beautiful channel is created that as soon as the chela asked a question, through that channel even without giving a verbal answer, the answer is known. How many times did Buddha not be infront of a crowd of people and you just sit in silence and not say a word, yes. So the important thing is the channel, the link that is formed where many answers, many answers are received. Now this is not only with those that are in proximity, of course those that are near would feel the greater benefit. Fine. But even those that are far, now we get letters, so many letters from all over the world and -- and we know that the direst question in their minds, they direct their attention to their guru, they asked the question and immediately some realisation dawns that this is the answer. Now there are < 1:06:04.9 > to that because a person is a meditator through medita tion has refined certain qualities within him that has developed the ability to go deeper within itself and the contact made across thousands of miles are at a deeper level -- are at a deeper level. So once a person develops the ability to dive within ones elf to a deeper level, then the contact is automatically there where the mind asks the question and the questions sinks to the deeper level and at deeper levels, there is no distance , it is whole here, now. So as soon as the question sinks to the deeper le vel, it knocks up against the answer. It is there, that's how it works, yes. Anyone else? We have a visitor from America and he will be leaving soon, John < 1:07:15.0 > because you have met < 1:07:20.6 > yes fine. Public: < 1:07:26.6 > when person dies? Gururaj: When a person dies?

16. SA77- 20 Public: Yes , < 1:07:32.2 > a -- a mental conditioning which < 1:07:38.7 > as well as he doesn’t understand that he < 1:07:43.5 > evaluation. Now what < 1:07:49.3 > Gururaj: Because it is his inherent nature to evaluate, it is his inherent nature. It is like the nature of fire is to give heat, the nature of ice to be cold, so it is the inherent nature of man to analyse himself, evaluate himself. Good. And after death, he is devoid of -- of his grosser self so in his subtle self that very impulse he has, that very nature he has is more accented -- accentuated, yes. So it is not something that comes to him from without, but it is his own nature that prompts him, makes him analyse and evaluate. Okay? Fine. Public: < 1:08:50.2 > could you say that there is any correlation on that point, any correlation between the time between incarnations measured -- measured in our years and one state of evolution ? For example, if one take a long time in between an incarnation, will that generally be a more highly evolved soul? Could it also be a summary of just taking a long time about evaluating because they’ve got a lot to evaluate? ( Laughs ) and between somebody who’d say has rapid incantations ‘cause that could also be a highly evolved soul? Gururaj: You see here -- here we are (laughs) here we are confusing or mixing up two entirely different dimensions. We are mixing up a timeless dimension with a dimension which we know as time, which is created by us for the sake of convenience. Yeah, but nevertheless, the period that is required, I do appreciate your question, the period that is required is one of need and need of that particular entity would determine his sojourn on the other side, other side or side, there's no other side (laughs). Public: < 1:10:20.9 > ma nner of speaking. Gururaj: Yeah, in a manner of speaking < 1:10:23.8 > yes, yes, it is the need that's important. The need determines the period, yes. Public: Guruji , there could actually be a desire to < 1:10:38.7 > ? Gururaj: Oh yes, o yes, any desire that is powerful enough can be brought to reality. Any desire, if a person desires strongly and up until that desire burns within one, any desire can be fruitful, it could be a desire for material things or spiritual things. Yes, that is true -- that is true and the ordinary psychology also teaches that, yeah.

17. SA77- 20 Public: And the idea that love is fulfilment of the < 1:11:17.0 > obsessive love, that means in any direction if you're obsessed of the love of that particular growth, you must < 1:11:26.7 > Gururaj: O yes, you start off with that as you said obsessive love, okay. It would be obsessive in the beginning and then when it reaches its destination, then the obsession would be gone. It would be so excessive that there won’t be any need for obsession, there won’t be any need for obsessive ness because obsessive ness itself means or points to seclusion, exclusion, something particular. Public: < 1:12:01.3 > you're excluding all other thought -- Gururaj: Thought. Public: -- Except that particular one point? Gururaj: That's so true -- true, through one point of love, that's it -- that's it. Is it the word obsession has other meanings, it could connote other things, <1:12:19.8> the other things, it could also be in a kind of derangement. Onepointedness, beautiful. We shall break for tea <1:12:32.4> (laughs) good fine.

2. SA77- 20 described by various sages that it is an emotionless emotion. Now when terms like these are used, emotionless emotion, pathless path, sugarless sugar, then we can be sure that it is an indefinable quality because when a quality becomes indefinable, then contrary expressions have to be used in some form of definition. So here we are still trying to cognise the emotion on the mind level because it is the nature of the mind to analyse. Good. Now if feelings are a part of emotion, good. Or feelings stir emotion or emotions stir feelings, can we separate that higher feeling of bliss from the mind? Now this can be done, but it cannot be called feeling. Now a realised man that can live beyond his mind, is he then devoid of feeling? No, he feels -- he feels. He feels more intensely than what we would feel but in his feeling, there is objectivity. Objectification where he can co-exist with his smaller self and his bigger self. Small S and the big S coexists and his joy -- his joy, joyous joy, indefinable. His joy is derived from being able to watch his smaller self functioning. Look, the realised man is a man that eats when he is hungry, drinks water when he's thirsty and performs all other biological functions as we do. But in him is awakened -- awakened the higher self. The spiritual self and the spiritual self, in its own entity can watch the emotion; can watch the emotions of the smaller self. So when it comes to emotion, we can believe, conclusively know that all emotions are subject to the relative side of life. They are in the province of the smaller self. Now, to get rid of hatred, we have to get rid of love. To get rid of pleasure, we have to get rid of pain and the other way round because all these opposing factors are two sides of the same coin. So now what is square man to do? As long as we delve in the realms of the mind where we are seeking pleasure -- pleasure -- pleasure fine, you will have the pleasure, but be ready to accept pain as well when it comes, the wave rises after it has had its fall. That is the motion of the wa ve . So in order to propel pleasure, the pain was necessary. In order to have sunshine, the rain was necessary. So as long as man subjects himself entirely to his emotional life within the realms of the mind, he will always suffer and he will always enjoy. But now through meditation, as I said a moment ago, through meditation, we want to go beyond the law of op posites and that is where real joy resides. Real pleasure resides. Real bliss because it is not controlled by the law of opposites, but it is a law unto itself. Now that is the quality which we are trying to cultivate through our meditational practices and having acquired that ability where you exist, the flame exists within itself, it doesn’t need the oil anymore. Self luminous and when we reach that, then we will still behave in our daily living, in our emotional living because the way man lives today, he lives 99% emotionally and those emotions naturally include his minds. Good. So when we reach that stage of objectifying the smaller self and being able to observe the workings of the smaller self, then the smaller self benefits by the observation. Observation naturally is also a projection. It projects something and that

1. SA77- 20 Satsang 20, 15 th of January 1977, Satsang 20 Gururaj: Good, we’ll start as open questions. Public: Gururaj, < 0:00:26.5 > love, anger, jealousy, hatred < 0:00:40.1 > what actually are these emotions and where do they reside and < 0:00:44.7 > ? Gururaj: Now, every human being is subject to all kinds of emotions. Fine. You would find that a person that is capable to love emotionally is also capable to hate emotionally, fine. You’ll find a person who is capable of doing charitable works emotionally can also do works that are uncharitable using the same very emotion. So the point is this that as long as emotion remains, as long as emotion remains mixed to the thinking power, then emotion becomes of a very -- very relative nature. Good. Emotions mixed with the mind are subject to the laws of opposites. So as we said last week, the greater the sensitivity a person develops, the greater has he the capacity to experience both extremes of emotion. Good. Now, what sets emotion emotion? That is the question. What is there within man that surges him towards these various feelings , these various emotions? What mechanism is there that could create these feelings and yet these feelings are so subtle, they are not tangible. The emotion can only be known by its expression. Hatred can only be known by how it is expressed. It might seed within one or it might be expressed outwardly, but it is still there. It still has the impact upon t he mind because the mind is the governing factor that stirs the emotion. When the mind is always the governing factor in all emotions, in all the opposites, in all the extremes of emotions, the best way to tackle the emotion would be to go beyond the mind. Good. Now when a person goes beyond the mind, beyond the realms of the mind, how will the mind recognise emotion? That is another philosophical question. When we go beyond the realms of the mind, beyond the realms of the intellect, beyond the realms of all forms of analysis, how will the mind appreciate emotion? Good. Now, is emotion really to be appreciated by the mind? Good. Can emotion or it’s the higher form of emotion to put it in very relative terms, emotion has a lower category as well as a more subtler higher category. Now, that higher category, does the higher category fall in the realms of the mind or in the province, the range of the mind or does the higher emotion, the higher feeling fall in a category which is beyond the mind? Good. Now it is possible, through our meditational practices, to experience feelings -- feelings too are at par or synonymous with emotion. Good. Now, when we go beyond the mind, what is the feeling there? What is the emotion there? It has been

5. SA77- 20 Gururaj: (Laughs) beautiful -- beautiful (coughs). When emotion reached devotion? Public: Um-hmm. Gururaj: Very beautiful. Now, devotion too has its emotional quality. Good. Devotion is mixed with emotion, but in devotion, what happens is this that man exercises the positive aspect of devo -- of emotion, there cannot be devotion without love. Love is a constituent of devotion and devotion can never harbour hatred. So what happens in the devotional path towards self realisation is -- what happens in the path to our self realisation through devotion is that the positive aspects of devotion is cultivated more. Good. Positive aspects is cultivated more in the path of devotion. Good. So when man, through devotion, solves himself more and more in a loving way or with love, then there is less space for it for the qualities that are opposite to love. Now, there might be less space for opposite qualities, but it does not mean that the opposite qualities do not exist because that very power of devotion can be used in a negative man. A man can be devoted to the service of humanity and a man can be devoted to destroying the world. S o here in the other aspect, the same power of devotion can take on a higher form or a lower form. The lower form is destructive while the higher form is constructive. There lies the differentiation -- there lies the differ entiation between the good and bad aspects of devotion. Devotion is not devoid of emotion, it must have emotion to propel itself as we said before that emotion is self perpetuating and if devotion is to get greater strength, gather greater strength, then t he emotional quality is required, but in devotion, devotion is not the end, devotion is a path, it leads to the end. As long as there is devotion, there will be duality. As lon g as there is devotion, there will be duality you and me -- you and me , and when one has progressed far enough on the devotional path, then the you and me that is not after the < 0:25:46.7 > as much soft and smoother (laughs). Good. So when a person, a person of a devotional nature would choose the path of bhakti to achieve self realisation, but then bhakti is also limited by the sense of duality, you and me, thou and I, until the very path of bhakti leads you to find the oneness, it starts off with a separation and leads one to oneness and there lies the beauty of bhakti yoga. The aim of all these yogas, the aim of all these paths is to find oneness, is to make the small self merge into the bigger self. That is the end and aim of all yogas. But according to man's temperament, he chooses his path and I've always said if there are 4,000 million people in this world, there must be 4,000 million paths. A teacher guides, but what path you have to take depends upon your temperament, that's <0:27:18.2> okay? Fine, good. Anyone else? Public: What is the difference between < 0:27:29.4 >


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