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2. UK 76- 10 Questioner. Evans Went Gururaj. Yeah. Well, naturally that would be his interpretation. Now the mind and the body being composed of matter, is necessarily governed by the three Gunas. Now by Gunas the Sanskrit words for Gunas would be Tamas, Rajas and Sattva. Those are the three Gunas or the three elements which govern all nature and natural existence. Now when we discuss nature, we will realise that within the realms of nature, there is birth, development, decay and death. Good. Now these aspects of life and death are existent within nature itself, but those realised men like Buddha, Ramakrishna, Raman Maharshi and these people you have described being embodied beings, are subject to the laws of nature. In other words their minds and bodies are subjected to the various workings of nature. Now we as human beings who are embodied and that have a bit of the mind, as far as we know it, also are subjected to the same things that the enlightened ones were subjected. Now, when it comes to enlightenment, the reference is put more on the third aspect of man which is the spiritual aspect. In other words man has the body, he has the mind and has the spirit. So for the enlightened being, his residence, his entirety is mostly based on the spiritual level, whereby he would not care to any great degree about his mind or his body. He lives in a state of its own which we could call the transcendent state. Good. Now one thing is sure, that the transcendent state which is the spirit, does permeate the mind and the body, but th e permeation has necessarily to go through these various facets of nature and the elements that govern nature. Now, these enlightened people seem to neglect, according to our eyes, they seem to neglect the gross body because they live on a much higher plane than the person that lives in the body itself. Now by that we mean that when a person lives in the body only, he lives in the sensual body. The sensual body is the body which is expressed by the five senses we have, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching etc. Good. But now these enlightened beings, they do not care for the sensual self. The sensual selves of their beings are of no importance to them or assume no importance whatsoever. Now that is the difference between the ordinary average man and the enlightened man. The ordinary average man lives within his senses only and mostly, whether it be on a finer level of the mind or on the physical level. And the enlightened being is one who has gone beyond the requirements of the senses and also the workings of the senses. So his existence, the existence of the enlightened being is beyond mind and body. Now to the enlightened person he finds that the workings of nature are transient, they are temporary, while the life he lives in the transcendent, in the spirit, is permanent. Good. He has found within himself, the calmness of the ocean, that is beneath the ocean, deep down in the ocean, while the workings of nature is nothing but the turbulence which form the waves on the ocean. So he too has gone

3. UK 76- 10 through the waves, that are on the surface and has gone deeper down into the realm, or the depths, where the workings of the Gunas, Tamas, Rajas, and Sattva are not important. For us they are important, because Tamas, Rajas and Sattva, the three elements which compose nature, has to be there for us and to aid us in our evolution. Now what happens in the process of evolution, is that we are not annihilating or destroying Tamas, which in other words could be called inertia. We are not destroying Rajas, which is the activating factor, and we are not destroying Sattva either. What we are doing, is to try the finer element of nature which is Sattva in other words light. We are trying to allow light to dominate our lives. So by light dominating the lives, the inertia or darkness, in other words Tamas, is not destroyed but subdued. Good. Now that is the average man on his path to progression, on his path to reach his maker. Now this is the path that the average man has to travel until he has reached the finest sattvic value, the finest light value, the finest relative value of his life. And then he goes beyond that finest relative to become one with the absolute, which is his Spirit. Now the enlightened man, normally lives in that plane which is beyond Tamas, Rajas and Sattva, or rather beyond the workings of the laws of nature. He is beyond all nature. So, sometimes, we call enlightened beings a law unto themselves. Good. Now, when a person becomes a law unto himself or beyond all laws that govern the physical or the material universe, then he ceases to care, he ceases to care for his body. Now to us Ramakrishna or Raman Maharshi, to us, he might seem to be in great pain, he might seem from our eyes that is, from our eyes he might seem to be in great pain but in reality he might be experiencing the finest ecstasy or the deepest ecstasy which we call bliss. So from our point of view he is suffering, but from his point of view, the suffering is just a play, the surface waves upon the ocean which he really is, because he has now transcended the surface waves and become one with the depths of the ocean which is the core and true nature of every human being. I have always said that the nature of man is Divine. So those enlightened beings, they are called enlightened beings, because they have reached Divinity, and they live in Divinity. So when you have tasted of supreme bliss, when you have tasted nectar, in Sanskrit it is Amrit, when you have tasted, (General laughter) yes, so when you have tasted Amrit or nectar, right and then these little teaspoonfuls of sugar does not matter. Good. These little teaspoonfuls of sugar does not matter, because the teaspoonfuls of sugar also contain another element. How to recognise the sweetness of sugar is to know something which is bitter, is to know something which is bitter. So this necessarily presupposes the law of opposites. So in order to know pleasure, one knows pain. In order to know sunshine, one has to know rain. Good. So in that way, in order to know what is white, one has to know what is black. So all these things are still within the realms of nature and all these laws of opposites compose what we know as nature. Good. Fine.

4. UK 76- 10 So these enlightened beings are beyond the law of opposites and they dwell in the plane of bliss which is absolute. So for them, having gone beyond the law of opposites, the very law of opposites, the very law of pleasure and pain, to them become non-existent. Now the human body is composed of various chemical substances, and is composed of billions and billions of cells which obey these various laws. So the one that is beyond the law of opposites and experiences bliss, why should he be concerned with the law of opposites. So whatever happens to the body is not important to him or assumes no importance whatsoever to him because he does not feel the heat and he does not feel the cold. He does not feel the pain and he does not feel the pleasure because he is now in that state which is bliss, the indescribable state of bliss. So we do find that these enlightened men, having gone beyond the law of opposites, do not care whatsoever for their bodies. For example, you put on a suit and the suit might find a tear, on the coat or the pants or whatever, and you are not going to be disturbed by it so greatly, are you? So you say it's torn, it's torn and you put on another suit. So to them, so to them, this body and this mind which is part of the material existence assumes no importance whatsoever and they know that it's value, the value of mind and body is very, very transitory and once when a person dwells within the eternal, and becomes eternity itself then what is the value of the transitory, the secular, the impermanent. Yes, once you have a million pounds in the bank, you are not going to stand in the street, begging for pennies. Good. So, to the enlightened, (Gururaj laughs), so to the enlightened man, the mind and body does not matter. To the mind, the body does not matter, and to the body, the mind is of no consequence whatsoever. So that is why we find, we find that people in the enlightened state do not suffer, do not suffer at all and they throw the body to the winds. In other words, by throwing the body to the winds, they maintain that that which is composed of natural elements, they are subjected, they know that the body, the material field of existence is subjected to life, to birth, decay and death. And being beyond that, it is of no concern whatsoever. Okay. Thank you. Lovely. Good. Who shall be next? Questioner. (From a child) Does the universe ever end? Does the universe ever end? Voice. He wants to know whether the universe will ever end, does the universe ever end? Gururaj. What a beautiful question? Here we have a philosopher. Lovely, lovely, lovely! You know you've put me in a muddle! (Gururaj laughs) Yes, what a beautiful question. The universe now, you know, a child does homework and then the teacher marked the homework. Fine. So after the teacher marked the homework, sends a message that, ‘Please tell Daddy, this question was not properly answered’. So nevertheless, what I am going to try and do now is to try to answer

5. UK 76- 10 the question of the ending of the universe for the child and for the father. Shall we try that? Good. And that would be difficult really. The universe does not end. The universe does not end. It does not end because the composition of the universe is love. Right. And love is something which Mummies and Daddies have for their children. Good. And real love of Mummies and Daddies for their children should always remain and always are unending. So the little universe which you are, that experiences this beautiful love from your mother and father would be unending. It will be there forever and ever for you and of course your little universe and their big universe come together in that beautiful love which makes your universe and their universe unending too. Good. Right. And as you grow up, as you grow up, you'd find this more and more when you meet your little girlfriend, have one? (Gururaj laughs) Yes. So here too, your girlfriend herself when you meet her, blonde one? Okay. (Gururaj laughs) Yes, she is also a little universe. She is also a little universe because in her is also that love. So then, first you start sharing your little universe with the universe of mummy and daddy, in love and then you meet your girlfriend and then there’s another sharing that takes place, between your girlfriend's universe and your universe. So, here we have, your universe, Mummy's universe, Daddy's universe, girlfriend's universe, how many are that? One, two, three, four. Fine. Good. And then when you grow up and you have children, then there are more universes. Okay. So there are so, so many, many, many universes. Good. Now, sometimes when we use the word universe, we maintain that to be the sum totality of all creation. Now if creation is endless, and beginless, then there would be no end to creation because creation has had no beginning. But one thing that happens is this, that there are universes within universes, in the whole scheme of things which is infinite. Good. Now if divinity is infinite, without beginning or end, then His creation too has to be without beginning and end. Because if he is beginless, then he has been creating from time beginless. Therefore, the universes that we talk of, or the totality of all universes is beginless and endless. But within this whole scheme of things, within the scheme of beginlessness and endlessness, there are other universes which begin and which end. Now, if we study our human bodies, we would find that there are billions of cells forever creating themselves and destroying themselves, dissolving rather and within a few years, the entire system of the body is recreated. The old cells are dissolved or destroyed and new cells take birth. So in like manner, in like manner the universe, or the composition of the human body, or the composition of an atom is exactly the same, is exactly the same as the entirety of existence. And existence is the universe and existence is an attribute of being, being which we call infinity. The personalised attributes of being would be

6. UK 76- 10 existence, it would be knowledge, it would be bliss. But in that instance when we describe existence in that manner, we call it absolute existence. We call it absolute knowledge. We call it absolute bliss. Now these are very relative terms, to describe something which is indescribable by words. It is verbally indescribable. Now to get back to our first point, the entirety is beginless and it is endless. But because, here nature, the laws of nature come in again, where there are universes within universes. And those smaller creations, those little pieces in the entire jigsaw is subject to change. So therefore, we would find whole universes, exploding in the scheme of things. We hear of whole solar systems being exploded or dissolved into finer and finer elements, which in turn congeal to create greater and greater universes. The analogy, we can go back to the sea where we have a great wave coming up, and that same great wave subsides again. So in that too, in that too, the wave is not destroyed but it has subsided, subsided but to rise again. So these are the changes that are forever taking place within the higher or greater scheme of things which is beginless and which is endless. This we will find in our human bodies. We will find this in the minutest atom and this we will find in its entirety of that which we know so little. Now our human minds can reach, can reach the entirety of all existence, can reach the entirety of all existence, and we do that, we can do that through our meditational practices that, by diving deeper and deeper within the levels and within the deeper and deeper recesses of the mind, we can traverse the entire existence. In other words, there too the mind can be taken to a point where it can cognise not on the intellectual level but the mind combined with the heart, with the expansion of the heart, it can cognise, experientially that, which is never born and that which will never die. So this is the composition of the entirety. I think that was for the Daddy. (Gururaj laughs) Yes. Questioner. The part about rest, we've been taught in T.M. before, I have been taught Gururaj. What is T.M.? Questioner(Cont’d). It's a technique I used to practise. Gururaj. Oh whatever it is.

7. UK 76- 10 Questioner. (Cont’d) Anyway, it was sort understood that the deeper the rest you had, the more integrated and purified the body becomes and therefore the more that divinity can flow through that. And so therefore deep rest was said to be necessary. Gururaj. Good. Does that end the question? Questioner(Cont’d). Yes, there are various parts to the first. Gururaj. Right. Can I start answering it? Questioner(Cont’d). Yes. Gururaj. Good. Sit down please. (Gururaj laughs) Lovely. Yes well naturally, many schools of thought, you know, teach their own way, teach their own way. What we are most concerned about, is our way. Right. And we do recognise, we do recognise the necessity for that deep rest of the body and we do recognise the deep rest of the mind. Now for the enlightened man, there again, we touch upon the first part of your question, for the enlightened man, he could live his life in absolute turbulence seemingly which is turbulent to us, from our level looking up. He can live in that life of turbulence, but inwardly he is experiencing that deep calm, deep tranquillity, deep rest. Yes. So, your question is right and very true that we that are in the kindergarten have to train ourselves to find that beautiful relaxation of mind and body. We know that in this twentieth century, in East, West, North, South, everyone seems to be living a very, very hectic life. And we have brought this hecticness upon us, we have brought this upon us, so now we have to find a way, to find the tranquillity. We have to find a way whereby the body could be well rested and the mind could follow suit with equal rest as well. And when one achieves that tranquillity, one can go beyond mind and body and be in touch with that being that is within us. Now this is one form of Yoga. This forms part and parcel of Raja Yoga. What I described to you earlier was Karma Yoga, where you have full activity, where you have full activity and you reach a state where in that activity you are rested. You are rested automatically in all that hustle and bustle. So our teachings, when it comes to meditation, such as mantra meditations and certain other yogic techniques, it is the path of Raja Yoga. Good. Now in our systems of meditation we incorporate, is that her fifteen minutes duty now to look after the children, ah, that was very beautifully organised where everyone takes a bit of time to look after the children. Good. Now in our system, in our system, we incorporate all the Yogas. We incorporate the methods whereby the deep rest is attained, of mind and body, and where being is touched.

8. UK 76- 10 And then in the waking state we do say, let us do our best. I spoke about this last night I think. We do our best in our waking state to better ourselves, to face our weaknesses and better those weaknesses. And, we have the ability once we have diagnosed our problems, then proper diagnosis as a doctor would tell you is half the cure. So we incorporate in our system, Raja Yoga, the methods of mantra and the other forms of meditation which falls under Raja Yoga. We incorporate Karma Yoga, whereby we better ourselves by first finding our weaknesses and replacing weaknesses with strengths. Fine. And then we also practise Jnana Yoga. Now Jnana Yoga is the yoga of wisdom and that is where mental analysis comes in which also serves a useful purpose. Now for a person to do any practice or develop any skill in action, he must necessarily appreciate with his mind, to a certain extent, the value of the practices which he is doing or the mode of life he is living. Now this mental analysis of the various systems is called Jnana Yoga or the yoga of wisdom. So in our system we develop Raja Yoga, the practices, Karma Yoga, the way of living and Jnana Yoga, the Yoga of wisdom and with the combination of these three Yogas, we are also in touch with the fourth yoga, which is called Bhakti Yoga. Bhakti Yoga is the yoga of devotion, where husband becomes devoted to the wife, wife becomes devoted to the husband. And like that, devotion increases. We, our aim in life is to be in touch with the abstract. Now the abstract might seem inconceivable to the limitations of the mind, so what we do, is approach the abstract through the concrete. Now the object of our devotion could be our guru, could be our wife, could be our husband. It could be any personage, past or present, with whose teachings we agree, and whose teachings are beneficial to us. And, by having that utter devotion to the person or personage or object, we automatically draw upon universal forces unto ourselves. And by drawing the universal forces unto ourselves, we benefit with greater expansion of mind. There, we are aiding the yoga of wisdom by greater awareness. We are aiding our practical living life, which is Karma Yoga. Fine. And we are also at the same time becoming deeper and deeper, going deeper and into our practices. Fine. So here, Bhakti, Karma, Jnana and Raja Yoga, all these Yogas merge in our teachings. They all become part and parcel of each other. And that leads to the totality of life, that we should really be living. Now if we have a motor car and the motor car has six pistons, I don't think we should be satisfied if the car runs on four pistons only. We know that the car has six pistons and to get the maximum value of that car running smoothly, we must get all six pistons working beautifully. What happens to us, because of our limited and conditioned minds, the carburettor sometimes becomes dirty. Now, Divinity is within us, we know that, we have to accept that. It is there to be experienced. But that petrol cannot flow through and give the car a smooth run, if the carburettor is dirty. So what we do,

9. UK 76- 10 we clean the carburettor. We clean out the jets and all the dirt that is in the carburettor, so that the petrol can run through and our car can run smoothly ahead. That's all. Now how do we clear this carburettor, is by our meditational practices for a start. Fine. That would lead us to live a better integrated life in the waking state that will give us some understanding, Jnana Yoga that will give us devotion. So, our yoga is the yoga which could be an integrated way, where all these teachings are combined, and that could lead us to quicker progress, quicker progress. Now, we all know, we all know that we have come from Divinity, and to Divinity we reach. We know that. But without doing anything we will take two million years perhaps. But we don't want to wait so long. We want to reach there faster. So therefore, we have these practices that combines all these forms which I have very briefly described to you and you will find, as we become more and more established in these various modes of living and in the understanding we gain, in the devotion we develop and doing our practices regularly, we find that life becomes more and more joyous, because we are using all the pistons of the car and not just running on one or two or three pistons. And that is how joy increases, love increases. And then there is such a beautiful flow where all hearts can merge as one heart, where all hearts can beat in the one beat, in the one impulse the one impulse which is creation itself, which is creation itself. People say there are so many hearts. I would say there is only one heart, the one universal heart. And there is only one heartbeat and when we recognise this factor, then will we know the unity instead of diversity that exists. Then we can say, ‘I and my Father are one’. Then we can really practise, ‘Love thy neighbour as thyself’, because that is all one and within the circumference of that oneness, which in other words, which in other ways we know as love or love divine. Okay. Good. Thank you. Questioner. Can I ask the age-old question, why did God give us a soul? Why is it necessary for the soul to leave the absolute and go on its journey over many lifetimes to rejoin the absolute? What happens to it? They are all part of the question what happens to us when we die, when the soul leaves our gross body, does it go to an astral plane, an astral plane and why have we no memory of this? Gururaj. Good. Now, no, no, no. What I need is pen and paper because I am going to start writing a whole volume on that. Yes. Because that is a very, very profound question. Now this question has been asked, and the various aspects of this question has been asked by philosophers through the ages that why should man become individualised number one. What are the mechanics of individualisation? Number two. And if individualisation occurs, why should it exist as a

10. UK 76- 10 separate entity? Number three. If it exists as a separate entity, what is the relationship between the great entity and the small entity? Number four, or is it five. Nevertheless, so this question could go on for a long time. Can we start the second session with this because it would take a long time to answer all those aspects? Gita has just reminded me, that we have to break for supper, is that what it is? Oh are we having supper here? Bravo. (Gururaj laughs) Lovely. I am at your disposal, we can go into this, but I am thinking of your convenience because the next session starts in two hours and I have got how many people to see in between, about nine people to see in the two hours, individually, is that what it is? Shall we leave that for later? Good. Gururaj. More and more now. Aide. Thank you. To the soul when the physical body dies that was the last part of the question to have to ........ (Inaudible). We’ll write the question down for you so you can remember it all. Okay, we’re going to have a pot luck supper most of you know this because you (1st side of Tape ends) Gururaj. Good, as I said this afternoon and which I normally say at every meeting that I have not come to lecture to you, but rather to communicate with you. And that of course would mean the flow between minds and mind and heart and heart. And this could be successfully, it could be successfully achieved by questions and answers. So who would like to start off with the first question? Questioner. Gururaj, is there always a lesson to be learnt from suffering? And do we experience illness because of some karmic debt we have to pay? If so, can we interfere with the paying of that karmic debt by seeking to be healed? Gururaj. Good. That's a beautiful question. Now, the question basically is that, is there any lesson to be learnt by suffering? Good. And do we pay any karmic debt by any illnesses we suffer? And would it be advisable to become ill? (Gururaj laughs) Questioner. (Cont’d.) Do we gain from healing?

11. UK 76- 10 Gururaj. Do we gain from healing? Is that what it is? Questioner. (Cont’d.) Can we interfere with the paying of that karmic debt by healing, being healed? Gururaj. Good. Fine. Good. Firstly, man is not born to suffer. There is an innate Divinity in man, which would proclaim, over and over and over again that, ‘Thou art Divine’, and by recognising the Divinity that is within us, all suffering would cease or there would be no cognition of any form of suffering. So basically, man is not born to suffer. Good. But we find in the world and in our existences, we do find suffering. Good. Now the question would be, ‘Why should man suffer?’ And for that, we will have to define what the law of karma is. Now karma basically and literally interpreted would be the law of action. In other words, whatever you sow, that shall you reap. Good. It is also a law of retribution perhaps in our terms, when we talk of suffering. Now if man is basically divine, if man is basically divine, what are the mechanics? What happens in man that causes him to suffer? And where is this suffering located? Because, if the inner core of man is Divine and the nature of Divinity is bliss, then naturally we could assume that the suffering does not take place in the inner core, which is bliss. So we can exclude the Divinity in man from all suffering. The Divine in man does not suffer because its nature is bliss. Now, what part of man suffers? The part of man that suffers would be mind and body. Good. Now doctors have discovered that most illnesses and over ninety per cent of the beds in hospital are of psychosomatic illnesses. In other words, the illnesses man suffers stems from the mind or the mind processes of man. Good. Now how can we alter those processes that goes through the mind and how can we repattern the mind so that the body does not suffer? Those are the questions. Firstly, the mind is a conditioned mind. All our minds, as individual minds if you wish to call them such, are necessarily conditioned by our past actions, by where we were born, in what family we were brought up and by our environment and supposedly by the inflictions inflicted upon us by the environment. Good. Now if the mind is patterned to receive outside inflictions or if the mind is conditioned to create these inflictions upon ourselves, then we could go through an immense amount of emotional turmoil and apart from emotional turmoil, we could go through a process of mental imbalance. Those are psychological diseases, psychosomatically speaking, those very imbalances in the mind can be interpreted through the organic self of man, which is the physical self of man. And this is the contention of most doctors, that, even those diseases which we find to be organic, would have a psychological origin. So, in order to find a more healthier body, we have to tackle the root source which is the mind. Now this is in the sphere of modern psychoanalysis which psychologists practise. And it is also in the sphere of the psychiatrists. But psychology and

12. UK 76- 10 psychiatry being still in the stage of infancy, most of the treatments are done in such a manner that does not always heal, that does not always heal and more failures are found than successes. And even in the successes, we find that the successes are temporary because the whole mind, the conditioned mind has to be re-patterned. A conditioned mind, means that the mind has been patterned not only by the happenings in this life, but it could go further back into past lives, if you do believe in past lives. And if you do believe in past lives, do take it for granted that what we are today, we are the sum total of all the words, thoughts and deeds that we have been through, that we have thought in our minds, the actions which we have performed, in those lifetimes. And all those things have created, have created samskaras, which is a Sanskrit term, and which could be interpreted very loosely in the form of impressions. So in the human mind, the human mind contains the impressions of many, many lifetimes of living. Good. Now the extent as I said this afternoon to a very similar question, that the extent of the human mind is to the extent of the universe. In other words, we that have progressed through evolutionary processes, from the mineral kingdom to the plant, to the animal and now we have reached the stage of man and yet the mind of man has the capacity to contain all the impressions that were created, that were implanted in this memory box, that we have through all those varied existences. Now when we think of illnesses that stem mostly from the mind, there could have been certain imbalances caused by the happenings to us in those existences. Good. And therefore man suffers; man suffers because of the imbalances. Now what psychologists and psychiatrists do, they probe, just to the extent of the knowledge they have of man's mind. And as we know and as they would admit, that we know only, or we are only conscious of ten per cent of the human mind. So the treatment given by psychologists and psychiatrists is necessarily limited to ten per cent of the mind, while ninety per cent of the mind remains dormant. And therefore the failures that we find in these treatments is because the causes might lie in the ninety per cent mind, of which we know nothing. Human knowledge of that field is very limited. So there are practices devised, whereby the ten per cent mind does not need to rationalise, does not need to cognise the ninety per cent which is dormant. We have through meditational and spiritual practices; we have the method, where we traverse the ninety per cent which is dormant. And by traversing the ninety per cent that is dormant, we go right to the core of ourselves, which is normally termed as the spiritual self. Now the spiritual self could be equated with that Divinity we spoke of earlier, that infinite capacity that is inherent in every man. So what we do here, is, that, to alleviate our suffering that we have brought upon ourselves because of the conditioning of our minds, what we do here, is we dive deep within ourselves through meditational practices whereby we

13. UK 76- 10 draw from the inner core, from the reservoir, that divine energy, and bring it through to the ninety per cent dormant mind and then further on through the ten per cent mind that we know of and then from there to the body. And we have found by spiritual practices that the body and the mind that we know of, has gained very much towards its betterment. And most of the meditators will tell us that they have received the wonderful bodily relaxation which is so much needed, as Amrit has mentioned, in this modern day and age and whereby the mind too has been relaxed. So when it comes to treatment of any ailment, our system would be, to go right back to the source of divinity and from there draw those energies, so that they would permeate the entire level of our conscious and dormant minds and through every living cell in our bodies. And by this, we do benefit. Now, is suffering necessary was part of the question. Suffering is necessary, and this is what constitutes the suffering. The suffering that we feel is just because, the mind, the conditioned mind is becoming unconditioned, unconditioned in a sense that it assumes a more uncomplex nature. We have, we have been instrumental in taking the uttermost simplicity, the childlikeness within us into various forms of complexities. And it is only the various forms of complexities that seem suffering to us. What we are doing, in fact is this, that upon the realm of divinity that is within us, we are superimposing the complexities created by ourselves in our minds and covering up the light that should really shine through. And that is the nature and basis of all imbalance in our lives. You can interpret it as illness or you can interpret it as any form of suffering. So if we take a piece of string and wrap it around our finger, what we have to do to loosen the string is to unwrap it and that is the process of meditation. Now in the process of meditation, of unconditioning the conditioned mind, it is a painless process. It becomes painless because we are drawing a sustaining energy from deep within ourselves. But if we do not meditate, or perform an y form of meditation, it could be any system, any valid system that could be beneficial to us, if we don't perform these systems, then what happens is this, that the conditioned mind tries to uncondition itself in various forms. One of the forms could be escaping the conditioning, escaping the conditioning. Another form could be, becoming aggressive to the conditioning. And these two factors cause more and more complications. Now, when we escape the conditionings of our mind, and build a wall around us, we are not curing the disease. We are just burying the disease, like in a garden, we are not weeding the weeds but burying them deeper and sooner or later, in some form or the other, the weeds will emerge again. Our problem and our method, is to eradicate those weeds, to pull them out root and all. Fine. That is the one process.

14. UK 76- 10 So escaping from our problems, or trying to escape from suffering is not the solution. Many people try to express their sufferings within themselves in a very aggressive manner. And they become not only aggressive to themselves, in other words, inflict more suffering on themselves, but in turn, they become aggressive to the environment and thereby try and inflict sufferings on others. Now, as we are, so are others. And the inflictions we impart upon others, can be felt by those others, because they too might not, might just be as weak as we are. So through meditational processes, what we are doing, is alleviating the root causes of the suffering that we have to suffer, the root causes of suffering we are eradicating it through a painless process. And the painless process is to draw from within, from the divine reservoir, to draw that energy so that it could flood our lives and wash away the dirt. And once the dirt and disease is washed away, our life becomes less in suffering. And as it becomes less in suffering, more joy increases, because the human mind can never, never, remain a vacuum. It has to be filled with positivity or negativity. Suffering is negativity. Joy is positivity. So the less negativity there is, the more positivity would emerge. And the more positivity there is, the less negativity would there be and vice versa, the other way around. So by gaining an understanding of meditational processes, not only gaining the understanding of it, but also by practising it, we do gain these benefits of these energies which are inherently ours. Good. Now as far as its karmic value is concerned, do we really have to go through suffering to get rid of our karma? That is a question. Sixty four thousand dollar! (Gururaj laughs). Good. Yes. We have to work off our karma. We have to work off our karma, and I quoted the other day, that if you have killed ten people, then it is not, (General laughter) (Gururaj laughs) (Group applauds). Beautiful, lovely, lovely. Now that is my karma. (Gururaj laughs). Beautiful, it's so lovely, oh , so lovely, so lovely. Good. Right, now, in karma if we have, say killed ten people, good. (General laughter) Now, now, if we have killed ten people, it is not necessary to be killed ten times. That is not how karma works. Now if we have killed ten people, using this as an analogy, if we have killed ten people, what we do to get rid of the karma of killing ten people is to save the lives of eleven people. And then one cancels out the other. Now, say during the day, for ten seconds, you have negative thoughts. Okay. The next eleven seconds you have positive thoughts, so there is one to your credit. Good. For the next ten seconds there might be negative thoughts and for the next eleven, next eleven seconds, positive thoughts, another one to your credit, so now you have two, a credit balance. Good. Now if we total up the whole day's activity throughout the day, and if we find ourselves, if we find ourselves in the credit balance and not in the red, if we find ourselves in the credit balance, then do know that, that day has been well lived. So there are forces which cancel each other out.

15. UK 76- 10 So we teach a message of hope, that if a person who thinks that he is a sinner, he does not need to feel that there is no hope for him, for self-realisation is the birthright of each and every one of us. We are inherently Divine, as I said over and over again. And it is our birthright to know the Divine nature that is within us. But because of the veils that has covered the mind, that is the cause and that is the suffering that we know as suffering. So that is the process and if we are ill, do we require healing? We do require healing, if we are ill. We must not think that, rather remain ill and that will help us to rub away our karmic debts. No. Become well. Be healed and perform good deeds that will rub out the bad deeds, and that is how karma will forever and forever balance. And then one day, when we pass away or discard this little flesh and blood and at that moment if we could really and honestly say to ourselves, that there is a good credit balance, then we could say, ‘Ah, well lived life, well lived’. Okay. Good. Thank you. Fine. Who will ask the next question? Questioner. The question actually very closely linked with the first one. Some of the answers have already been given. Gururaj. I normally do that. (Gururaj laughs) Questioner(Cont’d). If I could just carry on? Gururaj. Please. Questioner. (Cont’d) In your role as a powerhouse for others and therefore giving them extra, if they had not met you, how does this if at all affect their karma or lessons that they have learnt? In other words, you’re helping them, so in effect you are, if you like, overriding part of their karma, perhaps? Gururaj. Fine. Very good question. Yes. Yes. Fine. I am not the powerhouse or storehouse of divine energies. I am just a channel. I am just a channel, that has through my own karma developed the ability to draw upon universal forces and pass them on to the person who learns to meditate on our techniques. It's just as simple as that. I am nothing special, nothing at all. I am as ordinary as you are, absolutely ordinary and even more humble than what you are. Because that is what I have been striving for, utter, utter humility and this is something one does gain by becoming one within oneself, by finding that integration, that you become so humble that you could identify yourself with the meanest little creature that crawls on the ground or the highest evolved man. And that is one of the signs of self-integration, is that it brings within us that humility. So I am nothing but a hollow reed that could be made into a flute. And there is that Divine source that blows through it those eternal melodies that will pierce your ears and your minds and your hearts. It is not me.

16. UK 76- 10 It is not me. Knowing me is beneficial only to the extent that I have, I, does not mean this, right that we have developed the ability or acquired the ability to be able to become a doctor, physical doctor, mental doctor, spiritual doctor. Right. Fine. So by being attuned, by having developed that insight or the humility, to be able to identify myself with the meanest crawling creature, or the highest developed man, it means an identification. So in meditation, when I go into meditation, I can attune myself with your evolutionary status. Fine. And in attunement with that evolutionary status, I could assess the imbalance within man. Now, we must not be discouraged about that because ninety-nine point nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, I can go on and on, percentage of people are not balanced people. Because if there was that balance between mind, body and soul, then there would be no suffering. Good. So, it is only the self-integrated man, the self-realised man that has no suffering. So, here the doctor of the spirit, what he does, he analyses, assesses. He can hear, his instrument, his stethoscope is being able to hear the vibration as the physical doctor hears the heartbeats with his stethoscope. The Guru with his stethoscope of the mind, beyond his mind, from that level he can analyse, assess and evaluate the spiritual status of a person. And, by evaluating and assessing the spiritual status of the person, he can prescribe a technique whereby his progress towards the realisation of the divinity within him, would be a straight road, would be a direct road. Now if we want to reach, name some city, London, if we want to reach London from here, there might be so many roads leading to London. Right. One road might have a lot of traffic lights and a lot of motorcars and that would make your journey, through trial and error and all the stumbling blocks, more arduous, more lengthy perhaps, and it might take more time. But then you might have a Motorway, M6, M4. Good. Then you might have this motorway that could take you directly to London, very smoothly, without any hitches and you would reach there quicker. Now, do remember, the distance to travel is the same. Say London is a hundred miles from here. So from our present evolutionary status, to our destination finding divinity within us, the distance is the same. But there could be a direct path that could lead us there quicker. And that is what happens, when a person's evolutionary status is evaluated and prescribed for specifically by specific practices. So I am nothing but just a spiritual doctor, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. And that is how our system works. That is how our system works. Okay. Have I left out anything from your question? So it is not necessary, it is not necessary, a man can, a man can be directly in contact with divinity. He does not need a guru. But I think we discussed it last night or during one of these talks, that when a person is in kindergarten, he might need a teacher to teach him the ABC's and once he has learnt that then the child will start reading on its own. So the purpose of the external guru is to

17. UK 76- 10 awaken in man the internal guru that is forever there. So when the internal guru is awakened within man, then the external guru can be discarded. He has served his purpose. Good. And that is the process. So there is no, no contention at all that I am the storehouse of the spiritual energies and only through me can man benefit. There is no such contention because to say that would be very contentious. It is wrong. Okay. Fine. Good. Next. Aide. More questions people would like to ask? Questioner. ............. (Inaudible). Gururaj. I've answered quite a part of it in that first one there. Good. Anyone else? There's a lady over there. Questioner. I've two questions, Gururaj, the first; I'd like to hear something about your tradition and the tradition of your Master? And the second, you may have dealt with before, I don't know, you talk about the mind, the body and soul; I'd like to hear something about the soul? Gu ruraj. Beautiful, do you want to know about my soul or your soul, or the universal soul? Beautiful, beautiful. Are you comfortable love? Do sit back, relax. Okay. Fine. When a person talks of tradition, then traditions could become dogmatic. There, the argument always rises, there conflicts rise, that one would say, I am from the Christian tradition and I am from the Muslim tradition and I am from the Buddhist tradition, and I am from the Hindu tradition. When man goes beyond traditional values, does man really know the true essence of tradition, the universal tradition? All conflicts in the world, and we have known, when we study history, that in the name of religion and tradition so much dogmatism has taken place, that it has closed up people's minds. So many wars have been fought in the name of traditions where rivers of blood flowed because of tradition that my tradition is right and your tradition is wrong. Always a conflict. Always a conflict, and really speaking, underlying all these traditions is the true tradition meaning, the essence of all religions. So if you would look at our symbol, and most of our meditators here know our symbol where all the religions are portrayed on the symbol and behind it are five lines which are used in musical notation which means, which could be interpreted as harmony let there be harmony amongst all religions because basically, essentially, the truths of all religions is the same. It's like rivers coming from different directions and ultimately becoming one in the same ocean. So, I speak from a position of all traditions put together in one harmony. At one moment, I will quote the Vedas to you, at one moment

18. UK 76- 10 I will quote the Bible to you, at another moment I will quote to you some of the truths that are in the Koran. So what we do is try and find the basic truths, or the basic truth, the ultimate truth that is contained within all religions and all traditions. I have spent twenty-five years in a western country to learn about western traditions. I have spent the balance of my lifetime in the twenty five years, I do go back and forth to India and visit my gurus and what have you all the time to learn and learn and learn and learn, to learn the various ways of life, the various ways of life which form a universal tradition. Now there is a lovely little story how these conflicts arise. There were four blind men, four blind men going through a forest, and here in this forest they came upon a elephant. So the one caught hold of the tail, the one caught hold of the leg, the one the ear and one the, what do you call that? Trunk, trunk. Fine. Good. So the one that got hold of the tail said ‘Ah, I've found God, He's like a rope’. The one that caught hold of the leg said, ‘I've found God, He's like a tree stump’. And like that, these four blind men started arguing and fighting. Really speaking each and every one of them had found an aspect of truth and that was the aspect of the particular truth, they found, formed the basis of their tradition. What we are trying to do, is go beyond or transcend all tradition. Fine. And when one transcends the boundaries of tradition, one speaks from direct cognition. Direct cognition is that which supersedes all traditions. Fine. If someone asks me, ‘Are you a Christian?’ I say, ‘Yes’. If someone asks me, ‘Are you a Hindu?’, I say, ‘Yes’. If someone asks me, ‘Are you a Muslim?’, I say ‘Yes’. If someone asks me, ‘Are you a Buddhist?’, I say, ‘Yes’. Yes. I am all those, why not, because they are so many beautiful things in all those traditions, and yet we can go beyond all those traditions, which direct perception of truth can give you. So my authority is based on my personal direct experience and communication with that which is within me. I am a Yogi. He told you about it earlier. (General laughter) You see? So that is the authority that I speak from. Everything I tell you dear lady, is not from what I've read in books. Everything I tell you comes from my heart and soul, from my innermost being, things which I have experienced. What am I doing here, six thousand, six thousand miles away from my home and living on a suitcase, or from a suitcase? Although the English people have been so kind to make me feel so, so comfortable, they've really gone out of their way in sharing this beautiful love. I have come here to share that love and bliss which I have experienced and to share it with one and all. And that is my dharma and that dharma was conditioned by my karma. Okay. Good. Fine. Good. Fine. Now you wanted to know the nature of the soul, the nature of the soul. The nature of the soul and you asked for the universal soul. The nature of the universal soul is inexplicable, it is indefinable but experienciable. When we say soul, w e mean Divinity. The universal soul is non-different than God.

1. UK 76- 10 Gururaj. There are such lovely vibrations here, and such a golden haze over everyone spread here, it's just too beautiful. Since I came here this morning, it was about four o'clock I think, since four o'clock, it feels as if I’ve come home. Such a beautiful feeling. And I was told that Glastonbury is a special place and it is one, I assure you that, I feel it. Okay. So, as I always start off a meeting saying that I have not come to lecture to you but rather to communicate with you and that communication we’ll take in the form of questions and answers. So who would like to start us off today with questions? Aide. Is it audible at the back? Can you hear the microphone at the back? Gururaj. Testing, testing, testing. Aide. People with questions could come down to the front. Don't be shy, please. This is the time to ask questions. Gururaj. And the questions can be of any nature, not necessary on meditation but on any matter of philosophy or whatever you wish. We can even talk about cooking!! (Gururaj laughs) Questioner. May I ask a question? Gururaj. Please? Questioner. Mr. Evans Went wrote "About the Yogi during that time is the creator the body and medicines and serums are for him unnecessary". How is it then, that the Buddha died of poisoned mushrooms and the two greatest saints of this century, Sri Raman Maharshi Gururaj. And Ramakrishna Questioner. (Cont’d.) Sri Ramakrishna died of cancer? Gururaj. Of cancer. Yes. That is very true. Now to answer that, we must understand one thing first that there is no difference between mind and body. The difference would be in a matter of subtlety, in other words the body exists on a more grosser level than the mind. The mind which is also matter, exists on a more subtle level. Now, the quotation you have given by Evans, is it?

19. UK 76- 10 END


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