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1. UK 76- 12 Gururaj. Now in this Chant, it is mostly you're exhaling all the time. From the deepest levels of the lungs you are exhaling, exhaling, exhaling and you are getting rid of a lot of toxins. So that means it is also the mind is becoming in tune with the vibrations of the universe and at the same time by throwing off toxins. Throwing off toxins, the body too is becoming more and more refined. Now we've had many, many, many cases on our files, we have that people suffering with asthma, people suffering with emphysema over a period of time, doing this very, very chant, very, very chant, their lungs opened up, their lungs opened up and the asthma got better and they are not troubled with asthma anymore. So with this, and like that, I could quote you many, many case histories how this chant is beneficial physically, physiologically. It is beneficial psychologically and when we do the chant and the chant is just happening automatically on its own, and we, the real I within ourselves that we spoke about yesterday, is observing the pulsation of the universe. So here, the separation is taking place between the small ‘i’ and big ‘I’. And as we proceed in this by regular practice, we can stand apart from the world then we reach the stage to be in the world and yet not of the world. See? So this chant is very beautiful. I'm sure you all enjoyed it. Okay. Questioner. What I want to know is what is the significance of one hundred and eight? Gururaj. The significance of the one hundred and eight. Yeah. That’s a very short answer to that. They normally rely, they say that according to the shakti, according to manifestation this is according to Vedic traditions that in the chant, there are one hundred and eight Gods invoked. And well I don't know how true that is, but nevertheless it's quite beautiful really. Okay. Fine. Questioner. I find that a very great effort or will is required to meditate and at times I won't do it. I wonder why? Gururaj. Yes. Fine. That’s is very beautiful. Yes. The thing is meditation itself, and this has been repeated over and over again on this tour here, and I think we have had twenty or thirty lectures. Some people do find it an effort to really get down to meditation. Now meditation itself is of course effortless but in the beginning stages, one has to really make some little effort to find time, make time to get down to meditation. As you would know that our minds are patterned. We live in a certain mode of life and we have our set schedules and routines. So this is something additional which is added on to our way of life and whenever you try and remould a pattern, then some little effort is required in the beginning. But you would find that with the initial little effort for a few weeks or a month, it becomes so part and parcel of ourselves, that we would start looking forward to our meditation times. It is our experience that many people watch their clocks, ‘Oh it's nearly five, I must go home’, and they look forward to getting down to the meditation. So in the beginning, some effort would be required to really settle down and once it becomes part and parcel of your pattern, you'd find that no effort would be necessary and you would actually be looking forward to having a meditation, like looking forward to having a meal or a glass of water when your very thirsty. So we have to have a little effort in the

2. UK 76- 12 beginning and as we get more and more established in the meditational practices, it becomes more and more joyful, more and more relaxing. We become more and more composed in body and mind and it creates a pull within ourselves, call it a magnetic pull within ourselves that within the new pattern that is created, we find that we have to fulfil the pattern and in fulfilling the pattern we find fulfilment. So you would be attracted to it more and more. So in the beginning, a little effort, it won't hurt really. Good. Questioner. Is the end of the world fairly imminent? (Laughter) Gururaj. The question was, is the end of the world fairly imminent? Now I heard, I heard of a lady, I heard of a lady who heard that the world was coming to an end in two million years time. So what she did, she committed suicide. (Laughter). What we are interested in, is not the end of the world. We are not interested in the end of the world, if the end of the world is coming or not. That is not really the issue. What we are trying to do really is to live fully now, where in the living of the now, the past and present is experienced in the moment of the now. Now, what happens to most people and that includes the vast, vast, vast, vast majority is that they never live in the now. They either live in the past or they live in the future. By living in the past, it means that their minds, as any Psychiatrist will tell you, their minds are completely muddled up with what happened in the past. Two weeks ago Auntie Matilda said something and we still keep on worrying about it. Now that has been in the past completely and it does not help really to worry about what has happened in the past. Fine. Now you would say that what has happened in the past, does affect the present. Well, that could very well be so, it could affect the present. But by worrying or having our mind whirling around in thought of the past, is not going to help us. It will prevent, us preclude us from enjoying the present. So what we do, as we said last night that if thoughts of the past do crop up, we objectify the thought. Objectifying the thought means that we analyse the thought, we think of Auntie Matilda, we think of her, what she said and we analyse it. And by analysis, we find that the sting of it would disappear and gradually the happening of the past would dwindle away. Now the greatest gift given to man by Divinity is the ability to forget. Now just imagine that this whole existence that we have lived, if you believe in past lives, it could extend back to millions and millions of years. Now if man has to remember all the incidences of all his past lives and even the incidences of the present life, life would become absolutely unbearable. Good. So the greatest gift given to mankind is the ability to forget. Now if we have been given this ability to forget, we are going against the law of nature that is within ourselves, by not wanting to forget. So our mind is churning, churning, churning all the time whirling thoughts. Our mind is composed not only whirling thoughts but association of ideas. Because Auntie Matilda said something, how is it going to affect Uncle Matilda. Fine. Now meanwhile they might not be caring two hoots about us. Okay. Yet we start worrying, we start worrying. There are many people we find that a word is said to them and they will churn that little word, that little just small insignificant thing that is said to us, we would whirl it in our minds so much that it would assume far greater proportion than what was actually meant. Fine.

3. UK 76- 12 In other words, we create a mountain out of a mole hill. And what happens, nothing happens to Auntie Matilda but all the things are happening to us. So we end up in great mental confusion and in many cases where there are very, very weak minds, it has ended up in a lot of mental derangement. So the general antidote for that, is to be able to and we all can do it, is to objectify the thought. In other words objectification of the thought, means viewing the happening or the thought as if we are viewing a cinema screen, something is happening there. Fine. And by doing that, of course, we extract, we become devoid of the emotional quality that is involved. Objectification of any happening or thought, means that we take out the quality of emotion from it and when the quality of emotion is taken out from it then it does not affect us so much. Now we have three levels in our lives. The first level is the thinking level, the second level is the feeling level and thought and feeling leads to action. So those are the three levels on which all human beings live and exist. So what happened in the past, first comes to us as thought. The thought churns so much, that it affects our feelings and sometimes the other way around. But mostly it is stimulated more by thought, because thought comprises the intellect. Thought comprises the intellect where things are weighed, the pros and cons of the incident is there. And as we churn it more and more, as we churn the thought more and more and because of our conditioned minds, because of our patterned minds, we always seem to find the greater portion of negativity in it rather than the positivity. Auntie Matilda said that y ou looked terrible in a blue dress. Now we are going to worry about that. We went to the party and Auntie Matilda said the blue dress did not suit you. Meanwhile, there were a hundred people at the party who might have admired you in the blue dress and said, ‘Ah, that is really your colour and you look beautiful in it’. But Auntie Matilda for reasons of her own, could be pettiness perhaps, could be little jealousies, whatever, said you didn't look nice in your blue dress. Now we worry about this. Now when we analyse we now we start worrying. If we analyse what motivated Auntie Matilda saying this, we will find, looking at it positively, looking at it unemotionally, when the sting is lost, we will start taking no notice at all of what Auntie Matilda said. That is how, this is a very small instance how thoughts, never mind of what proportion they are, in this way the principle remains the same. In this way we objectify the thought and thereby not feel hurt in mind or in body or in our emotional self, which comprises the whole lot put together. So, we cease to live in the past and by ceasing to live in the past, we would enjoy the present more. Good. That is one aspect of our trouble. The other aspect of our trouble is that we live in the future today. In other words, we don't live today, we live next week today. Good. What is going to happen next week when I go to work on Monday? What is the boss going to say? What is this, and all these kinds of troubles? In other words even before the trouble begins we are living it now. Why? It is really speaking, so devoid of any comm on sense, any common sense and yet common sense is supposed to be common. Yeah. Yes. So we, from common sense,

4. UK 76- 12 not having common sense, we lose sense and reach nonsense. Yes. That's what we do. Yes. What is the sense of living in the future? What is going to happen is going to happen. And what is going to happen tomorrow or next week is definitely determined by how we live today. Right. Now, if we live today well, then tomorrow assuredly would be good too. So therefore if we can get out of our little minds, yesterday and tomorrow and live for today, - we are here today for example and as I am speaking to you, your minds, your minds are not worrying about yesterday and not about tomorrow because you are now absorbed in the subject that we are discussing. Now in that way, in that way, we can live today if we can live in the present and to be able to live in the present, the secret is absorption. The secret of being able to live in today is absorption. Now if we can absorb ourselves entirely in whatever we are doing - if I absorb myself entirely in the things I am talking about then I am not thinking of South Africa at the moment. No, I am not thinking of what is happening to the Centres in Australia or in Rhodesia. No. I am absorbed in you here and now. So all the things, all the worries, all the meditators thousands and thousands and thousands of them in the world at this present moment, is perhaps behind at the back of the consciousness but my main aim now is to be absorbed in you. So the secret of being able to live in the present, not in the past in the future, the secret to be able to live in the present would be total absorption in what we are doing. Many people, they sit down to eat for example. Good. While they are eating, a million thoughts are going through their minds and then they don't enjoy the food. They don't eat, they gulp it down. Good. Now all these little things, all these, they swallow it down I suppose, they gulp other things. Now, so, so by enjoying every moment, by being absorbed in every moment of our day we naturally enjoy, because absorption in the thing is very, very synonymous with joy. Now joy can express itself in many ways, in many ways. And absorption, for example, if absorption is in something which is not very conducive to our minds, even then total absorption in it would lose a lot of it's pain. Because with the absorption, there is also an objectivity involved, where if we live fully for the moment, in the moment, for the moment and in the moment and by the moment then automatically that very action, that very absorption would show us the total meaning of the situation. And by knowing the total meaning of the situation, is objectifying the situation in the process of being absorbed in it. So what we do is forget the past, forget the future today, because none of us really know what is going to happen five minutes later. So therefore this little story of the woman who heard the world was coming to an end in two million years time and committing suicide today, how stupid that is. She might just live for another tem or fifteen years and she is worried about two million years time. So if, is the world going to end, is it imminent, is of no consequences whatsoever. In the general scheme of things, if we go in an aeroplane and we observe the ocean from an aeroplane, you will find the ocean very still. It’s only when we are very near by, that we see all the rough waves tossing and turning.

5. UK 76- 12 So therefore with our meditational practices, we develop the attitude of standing aside which we have to this morning measured to a certain extent, where the chant just went on, on it's own and we just felt within ourselves we felt ourselves within ourselves and the happening, the happening was outside ourselves. So that is the whole process. One of the purposes of meditation is that we live a fuller more integrated life. And integration as I have said before, is integration of mind body and spirit and when should it be integrated not yesterday and not tomorrow, it should be integrated now. So as patterns form, as patterns form, as we become more and more absorbed in our meditations and with a little effort at first of course where it becomes part and parcel of ourselves and then that integration is for now and not worrying about if the world will end or not. It will end. Oh yes. Oh yes. Everything that is created, everything that is born, must die. Everything that is brought into existence, must have at a certain level non-existence. Right. But that non- existence does not mean annihilation. Non existence means that the evolved world lives in an involved state. It means that the whole tree is already existing in the seed. The seed is the involved state and as the seed develops, it lives in the evolved state. So there are in the universe, and when I say universe, I mean the totality of all the universes put together, there are changes. There are these waves tossing and turning all the time. The wave rises, the wave subsides. In that way, our very universe too, will dissolve, will come to a stage of dissolution. But that does not affect us in the least. Even when we die, this body is indestructible, it goes back to its original elements. So when the world or the universe ends, what will happen is that the constant factor behind it all will remain constant because it is changeless and unchangeable. Whatever we see changing all the time, are like the waves on the ocean tossing and turning. Yet it is still composed, the waves themselves are still composed of the very essence from which the waves come about, which is the water. Through meditation, we dive and find the calmness and by finding calmness, the underlying tranquillity, the turbulence of the ocean assumes less turbulence. It is turbulent but less affecting us, affecting us less because we have now known the secret of calmness and can objectify the turbulence where the turbulence could be looked at objectively. So this whole universe will dissolve. It will come to a dissolution, the law of nature is creation, preservation and dissolution. Those three things take place in everything, from the minutest atom to the entirety of the universe. And in preservation, things carry on and in the preservation there is another process taking place, the process of evolution is in the process of preservation until it reaches dissolution. Now dissolution is not the downward curve of the circle, as many people imagine it to be. Dissolution means that the grosser matter of the universe becomes more finer and finer and finer, until a stillness, a tranquillity is achieved, a tranquillity between the three elements that govern the universe. And in Sanskrit the three elements are known as Tamas, Rajas and Sattva. Fine. Now these three elements are graded. Tamas is inertia. Inertia means a kind of stagnation, fine inertia at one end. At the other end, the refinement, the total, the finest relative value of refinement of that

6. UK 76- 12 gross inertia. Anything which is inert is gross while anything which is Sattva reaches its finest relative value. And the activator between Tamas and Sattva is the factor of Rajas which activates, which activates the inertia and leads it on to Sattva. And that is the process of evolution. So imminent, if you say imminent destruction of the universe, destruction is not the word but dissolution is the word, where, through the process of evolution, the gross Tamas, activated by the Rajasic, the activating factor or Rajas, takes it to a finer and finer level of Sattva, that is the finest relative. And when it reaches the finest relative, it assumes a tranquillity. So in our daily life, what we are trying to find is equality of tranquillity, composure, calmness and when that happens be sure that the prominent factor in our lives or in the universe is Sattvic, the finest relative value that dominates. But that does not mean that Rajas, the activation or the activator or inertia, Tamas is destroyed. Nothing ever is destroyed but it is transformed and assumes new form and shape. What happens to the universe and which has been happening, to us, it might seem millions and millions and millions of years, millions of light years perhaps as we would like to call it but in cosmic time things happen. What seems to us to be a million years, it could just be a fraction of a second - the bubble comes up in the water and the bubble bursts. Fine. So, everything dissolves and disintegrates into it's original element reaching a tranquillity which in Sanskrit is called the ‘Night of Brahma’, which is, or Pralaya, that is the classical word for it, it reaches Pralaya, where there is a certain tranquillity. But within the tranquillity, Rajasic equalities, the activating qualities, although having become tranquil still has the faint impulse, still has the faint impulse that will regenerate itself, become grosser and form another universe. So this universe that we hear of, or know of is nothing but composed of the same matter and same material, and same qualities, the same Gunas of the previous universe. So when we say destruction of the world, destruction of the universe we mean that things disintegrate, dissolve, go back to it's original finer elements. That is what is meant. So nothing is lost. I have said this over and over again, that not a single ounce of energy can be added on into this universe and not a single ounce of energy can be detracted from the universe. So it goes on and on and on. The reason why it goes on and on and on is because the composition of matter itself is eternal too. Anything eternal can never be destroyed. Anything eternal can never be destroyed because even matter is beginless and what is beginless is endless. The changes we see are just the transformations of matter into different and various forms. So we think that it has died and it is reborn again figuratively perhaps literally. Figuratively it could be true. But it is just a continuous change, a continuous transformation of name and form. Good. The thing itself remains the same. This chair is made of wood, this table is made of wood, both are wood but one we call a chair, the other we call a table. So name and form are the only elements that will determine to us, the nature of change and name and form is created by man's mind. Good. We call this table a table now, but say the originators of language if they had called this very table 'chair' and the chair a table, then we would be knowing it today that, I am sitting on the table and the

7. UK 76- 12 chair is there. So name and form is created by man, naturally for convenience purposes, for to have a certain understanding or a certain kind of stability. So, to come back to your question and to finish the question, the answer to your question it is this, that nothing is ever destroyed. The universe which is relative, is subject to various changes and it goes on from change to change to change. And we will not be affected by the changes of daily living or by the changes that happens in the entire universe, if we discover through our meditation and spiritual practices the calmness, the stillness, the unchanging factor. And that is what we are trying to achieve, to find, to experience the unchanging factor, then all this change does not matter. Auntie Matilda doesn't matter, nothing matters at all. Okay. Thank you. Have I gone on too long on this but I thought it was important? Amrit. We are trying to find, to find people who haven't had a question answered yet. Gururaj. We want to give everyone a chance I suppose. Questioner. I would like to ask you a question about creativity, Gururaj. There are some Psychologists I think that say that creative activity, writing and painting and so on is a result of perhaps neurosis or at least personal unhappiness that one has to resolve. Do you agree with this and is it possible to be a totally integrated person and to continue with creative activity ? Gururaj. Beautiful, what a beautiful question? Could you hear it at the back? I'll repeat it, yes. I'll repeat the gist of it. Some psychologists maintain that all creativity, writing, painting, whatever, music, is the result of a certain kind of neurosis. Good. Now she also wants to know can creativity be possible in a self-integrated state. Now let's tackle the first part of the question, first, after some water. I've got eight minutes. Extend it a bit longer. Okay. Right. Now these psychologists are partly right. These psychologists that say that creativity stems from psychosis or neurosis, they are partly right because their level of enquiry has only reached that which they know to be psychosis and neurosis and have not gone further. Their observations, as we stand in the world of knowledge today, is necessarily limited. Good. Now a psychotic person or a neurotic person can do an action, which is non-supportive to nature. Now could they call that creative? It's destructive. Fine. Now there are certain factors. Now psychologists, psychiatrists, they delve and dwell on the level of the mind only so their interpretations are of the mind. Now psychologists have a habit of trying to classify or investigate a diseased mind, but very seldom do they want to categorise or classify or examine an undiseased mind. So in that bias, in that bias, they have the assumptions or they put the proposition that all creativity is

8. UK 76- 12 based on neurosis and which is partly true that for a person to express oneself there necessarily has to be imperfection. A person to perfect himself tries, at least tries to perfect himself by expression. That which is perfect does not require expression whatsoever. So it is man's quest in trying to find perfection that he wants to express himself in music or poetry or whatever the case might be, painting, he tries to perfect himself in that way. But does perfection really result from that process? Can perfection come about through the neurosis of a person? I have seen paintings that have reflected so, so very clearly to me the state of a person's mind and most of you have seen that. Good. So the neurosis a person suffers, can act as a stimulus, can act as a stimulus to try and perfect oneself. But there again, one does not need neurosis towards or on the path of perfection, one does not need to be neurotic in order to perfect oneself. Fine. But as I have said before that the enquiry of Psychologists is normally into the abnormal or diseased mind - it should be diseased rather. Their enquiry is based mostly on the diseased mind. Right. So they go to the conscious mind, they go to the unconscious mind perhaps. Jungian philosophy, psychology, they go to the subconscious mind but they do not take into account the superconscious mind. And this is the contribution to western psychology and psychiatry that finding self-integration, finding self-integration between mind, body and spirit, one naturally reaches and touches the superconscious mind. And that we are doing by our practices. Now, when a person finds the integration within himself, then he does not create in the sense of the creation we have just spoken about. Then that person reflects. Do you see the difference? Okay. One tries to, because of imperfection, tries to create and in its expression of creation, tries to perfect himself. Fine. But the perfected man does not create, he reflects. He reflects in his music or he reflects in his painting or in his poetry, he reflects that which he is himself, that perfection. Have you not experienced in daily life, where a certain piece of music could really drag you down, could make you feel awful, while another elevated piece of music could elevate you, uplift you and take you to such a beautiful spirit. And when you hear such music, when you hear such music, when you hear even the voice of a person that is elevated, you feel elevated. Even if you don't listen to the words, the sound enough is there to elevate you and uplift you. Fine. So that is not creation. That is reflection. In other words that musician, that poet, that painter, that orator is reflecting himself. He is actually giving of himself to those around him. So neurosis naturally is not the basis of creation because the creation of a neurotic person would be neurotic too. And the reflection of an uplifted person would be an uplifting reflection for all to enjoy. Does that answer you? Does that finish my eight minutes or can I go on more? One more question. Right. Beautiful. That was a lovely question. Questioner. I’d love to know when the seeming negativity of people that surround you in your life and from whom there is no immediate escape overwhelms you, is there any way one can deal with it when one feels almost that its so overwhelming that you can't escape?

9. UK 76- 12 Gururaj. Now this question, has everyone heard it? Shall I repeat it, the gist of it? That the seeming negativity of peopl e around you overwhelms you and how to escape from it? Good. Now here are so many factors to be analysed. Firstly the word seeming, secondly the word negativity, thirdly the word overwhelming and fourthly the word escaping. Right. In reality, in reality, if you analyse your own question you have answered it yourself in the first word, seeming. Right. When we develop the attitude that this negativity inflicted upon us, let us use it. There’s no such thing though. Inflicted upon us is seemingly so, then negativity loses it's sting because it is just seemingly so. Whatever is seemingly so, is unreal. So that infliction upon us is seemingly negative means that that negativity is not real. Fine. And that which is not real cannot inflict upon us. But now what do you get inflicted by? We get afflicted and inflicted by ourselves. Good. Anything which is not real the seeming negativity which is unreal negativity, cannot affect us, or afflict us, or inflict us. But the weakness lies in ourselves because we are trying to make reality out of that which is unreal. Do you get that? It's a fine point. We are trying to make reality out of that which is unreal and our affliction or infliction is done unto us by none other than ourselves. So there too, meditational practices strengthens us so that we don't inflict our own self. We are our worst enemies. That is a very common saying and sometimes very simple common sayings have such vast wisdom. Such vast wisdom, only thing is we fail to understand the wisdom. Now all the things that afflict us, are inflicted upon us by ourselves. Now if anything is afflicted by ourselves should we escape it or should we remedy it? By escaping it, we are giving greater momentum. We are not ridding ourselves of the problem created by ourselves, by means of putting in reality where no reality exists. So what we do when we are in such circumstances, we face it. We face it and not escape it. We do not escape it. By facing it, by facing it requires a lot of strength. Right. It requires moral courage, mental strength perhaps physical strength, in certain circumstances. And if we can truly, if we can truly face it, we will find the seemingly negative to be not so negative because we are strong. And when we are strong, we can face it. We do not need to escape from it. Who escapes? Only the coward or the weak person escapes. Yes. And that adds on still a greater weakness. Here we see negativity which is not there and we, we stimulate the negativity. We add on to the negativity by trying to escape from it, by trying to be weak. And what happens, the negativity becomes more stronger and we become more weaker. You see. So we face these problems and as we said before, by objectifying it, by seeing the unreality of it, that seemingly to us was real and once we take the seeminglessness away from it, we will see that it is just nothing. There is no sense, no sense in it at all and then it becomes nonsense. Yes. And that is how, that is how we tackle life's problems on a daily basis. We tackle life's problems on a daily basis, whereby we would not feel hurt, we would not feel hurt. Now by not feeling hurt, does not mean that we surround

10. UK 76- 12 ourselves by a wall, building a wall around us. If somebody throws stones at us and if we have a wall built around us, we won't be hurt because the wall is there. Fine. But that is escapism too. We are escaping by building that wall. So we don't, we, out of the negativity we take the seeminglessness away and that automatically will make it positive. Fine. Then we don't need to escape from any form of positivity. We do not get afflicted because we have become stronger through our practices and when we are strong, the necessity for escape, in any form whatsoever will not be there anymore. And that's how we progress in life. That's how we evolve, that's how we become happier, more joyful, more loving. Life becomes more smoother all the time, all the time. And that is what I am trying to share with you, that joy. Okay. Fine. Time for lunch, what can I do? We did two things tonight simultaneously, three things perhaps. We gave the leading of the chant over to Kieran, so it shows that any, any Counsellor can lead a chant, anywhere, number one. While you were chanting, I went into a practice of my own and through the power generated by your chanting, it helped me very, very much to send forth healing thoughts to all those sick people round the world. Thank you. Good. Fine. So, shall we start off with questions? Questioner. Guruji, would you please explain pyramid energy, flying saucers and Atlantis? (Laughter) Gururaj. Pyramid energy, flying saucers and what was the third, Atlantis. Pyramid energy might fall under science, flying saucers might fall under science fiction, and Atlantis might fall under pre- hi story, and I know nothing about them. Nevertheless, you see I don't know anything about the pyramids, neither Atlantis, because I wasn't there. And the only things I like to talk about are things of my personal experiences, which I could cognise now. Nevertheless, there is a theory which most people of science would know that the Pyramids were built in such a way, where the length and height of the pyramid would be the total distance from earth to the sun. Now these things can be commonly looked up in any encyclopaedia. But what I could rather speak about, that does, do the Pyramids, from the Pyramids is there any spiritual energy, is there any spiritual energy that could emanate from the Pyramids? Now this I believe can be done and is done. I remember that when I went to visit the Pyramids, I meditated in one of the chambers there. Fine. And I found, I found the vibrations so, so intense and so beautiful that one could almost levitate in the atmosphere produced in those chambers. There are many chambers which are naturally undiscovered as they say, but the special one that was opened, I found the energy, extremely, extremely dynamic. Now what would happen if a person builds a pyramid shaped thing here on earth here in England, and would decide to meditate in it. Now if the pyramid shape can produce a certain energy, fine. I'm catching someone's thoughts. Is anyone here trying to build a pyramid here to meditate in? Have you built one? Answer. No. I tried it once.

11. UK 76- 12 Gururaj. I see. See that is the level I operate on, not the science level. Okay. Now, what should happen if we should build a pyramid according to it's proper dimensions and we would sit inside and meditate? Now can man sustain the intense energy that is generated in it. Now, if it is a very highly evolved person he might be able to sustain the energy generated therein, but with a person who may not be of such a refined level, it could cause him harm. So whoever wants to experiment, do so at their own risk. Someone conducted an experiment where a pyramid was made. I think this, you would find in a book called, ‘Discoveries behind the Iron Curtain’, or something, psychic discoveries where they found that a blunt blade could be put into the shape of the pyramid and the blade could be sharpened, it would be sharpened. This is what I have read some years ago. Now, if the energy generated there, could have that effect on metal, and blades are of very hard steel, what effect could it have on the human being, the bones, flesh and blood. It has also been said that the energy generated in the proper shape and dimension of the pyramid could, I believe they found a dead cat in one of the pyramids and the flesh was sustained and it did not rot away. So now, can we say that if we should build a pyramid and go and live in there, this body won't die or go into a state whereby it will not perish? This is still subject to scientific experiments and perhaps we might have scientists in future, who would like to experiment on that. The only thing I could say about the pyramids, that the people who constructed those pyramids were of a very highly evolved civilisation. Good. Now if they were very, very highly evolved, and found the secrets of building those pyramids, and up to today I believe, architects still cannot unfathom the way they built the pyramids, then naturally, it presupposes that there was a time when people were perhaps even more highly civilised than us or had reached a higher mental calibre, a greater, higher, thinking ability than us. Now, this substantiates the very thing we discussed this morning, of creation, preservation and dissolution. This substantiates the theory that everything operates in cycles, that a society can reach a certain intellectual height, analytical height, and then that whole world or the universe could dissolve again and start all over again. So in the scheme of eternity, there are these cycles that keep on operating. And the same answer would apply to the question of Atlantis where people were highly skilled and highly civilised. And of course that era ended and we started all over again. So to measure eternity would be to measure it in terms of cycles that perpetuate itself over and over and over again. As far as the flying saucers, UFO is that what it’s called, unidentified flying objects, are concerned, this is definitely a reality. Of course, there have been pros and cons on it, about it. But it is a reality, where there would be other existences, perhaps beyond our solar system and who are far, far more advanced than us, to be able to send such vehicles, exploring through space and to visit earth. Now this is very true. This is definitely very true, because man thinks that he is the highest en ti ty

12. UK 76- 12 in this universe. This is not so. Now in certain kinds of travels, where man is able to project his innermost being, you ca n call it the astral body, he can project that. Now, this I am talking from experience. You can project your inner self, whereby you can visit other planets and not only planets but other universes and where you can actually see converse and commune at a certain level, at a spiritual level with beings, with beings that are far, far more advanced than us. A person has an invention, you call it a new invention. Good. So that person what he has actually done when he comes out with a new invention, is that such an invention is already existing somewhere in the universe and he has just tuned himself in, reaching a certain mental pitch, a certain mental height, where he could tune in with the inventors of that very object, somewhere in the universe. And it is by going deeper into the levels of the mind, as we always say that the extent of the mind is to the extent of the entire universe. So the mind can reach, the mind can reach other universes, other galaxies, other universes, whatever you want to call them and draw, and draw that knowledge here onto this plane called earth. And the only way to do that is to go beyond the ten per cent of mind that we know. We have to explore the ninety per cent in its deeper depths and this is possible and can be done. This might be given to the very few, granted, but it is not impossible and there are other existences of a much, much higher level than ours where even for communication purposes, words are not necessary, where minds communicate immediately and where minds work in unison and where hearts work in unison. And that is at a far higher relative level. So when a person passes away from this planet, from this planet, Earth, say after death for example, and if he has evolved beyond the levels of this planet, he can exist and find existences on other levels of existence, another existence on another planet or in another universe. And this is true and it can be experienced. But what we are interested in, can we experience it here and now. And the answer is yes. It can be experienced here now. And it can also be verified experientially. So, for example, say a scientist, he can tune in, he can tune in with theories that are unknown in this world today, but he can tune in to theories that are known in other worlds, in other universes, it depends. So, if all scientists or in the field of any discipline, for that matter, would go deeper into meditation, it will help the person in that particular field to, conceive of much, much higher ideas. And this is one of the ways how things get invented. For example, Edison, his mind was tuned at such a high level that he brought to the world many, many inventions. It depends upon the level of the mind man has reached. And when you reach that level of the mind, it is just a matter of being able to focus it to whichever way we want to focus it. So people that reach a very high level of mind, can be if they want to be, very, very versatile, they can do that. Yes. I know the answer is not really complete because I can't really answer you on a very, very scientific basis. And neither could I prove to you the existence or show you here and now, the flying saucer. Okay. Fine.

13. UK 76- 12 Questioner. Firstly Guruji, thank you for a very full and frank answer to the last question. It's very interesting. A Master, Lao Tze Chung wrote, ‘An adept is only an adept when he is using his powers. At all other times, he is an ordinary mortal and may make mistakes’. Would you agree with that and could you tell us up to what level of consciousness this might apply? Gururaj. An adept is a man who has reached a very high level of consciousness, that is accepted. Fine. Meanwhile, if he should exist in that level of consciousness all the time, then he would have to live in some Himalayan cave. Fine. So he has to adapt himself to the present level of consciousness, the present level of consciousness that would comply with the surroundings he lives in. A good teacher is always a person that teaches just two steps ahead, always. Or else, he’d be throwing people into confusion. He’d be throwing people into confusion. So although the adept, the teacher, although he has encompassed the entire universe, within his arms, he has to necessarily limit the teaching to as much as what could be understood or else he won't be able to communicate. So he has to, at times lower his vibrations to the vibratory level of the world around him, world around him, and yet just a bit more so that he could lead on, a little at a time. One step enough for me, that would be his ideal. And that is the best way and those are the kinds of teachers we do need today that could show us one step at a time little more, little more, little more all the time. Okay. Questioner. Gururaj, you explained how man, human being lives on three levels body, mind and spirit and you explained how a man must live fully on those three levels. Could you explain how the heart fits in? Is it something which exists on all three levels or is it a sub-level of one of these three levels or is it a fourth level? Gururaj. That's very good. When we talk of heart, we do not talk of the little physical organ. When we say heart, we talk of the core of the human personality. Now the composition of the heart is more of a spiritual nature, more of a spiritual nature which would combine also, which would combine also, the mind and the body. Because the spiritual nature being pure has to be filtered through the mind, the conditioned mind perhaps, the greater the light then we would know that the clearer the mind. So for heart, the core of the human personality, the individual self, for him to function at its purest level, a great cleansing of the mind is necessary. So it is not of a fourth level but it is within the boundaries or boundlessness of the spirit level. It is the heart which is the entirety of the human being. And in the heart would be contained feeling, good, that is one of it's properties and the feeling naturally would be interrelated to the thinking principle of the mind. And being interrelated, the condition of a person's heart is naturally affected. Although heart by nature is nothing but love. But yet that love has to be filtered through the mind and the body. So although being pure, the mind can superimpose itself upon

14. UK 76- 12 the heart and make the feelings that come through the heart seem impure. For example, emotions are part and parcel of it too. Now emotions can be of love, can be of hate, can be of anger. So the mind, the veils that the mind draws, influences very much what comes out. What is within is pure. At the level of the heart, the totality of the heart, the essence of the heart, the essence is essentially pure. But how much light shines through is dependent upon the purity that has been created in the mind so that how much the mind can perceive of it's purity and how much can be comprehended of the pure-impulses the heart sends out all the time. So now for the heart to send out impulses all the time, two things can be done. One, that the mind, the glass of the mind is highly polished and cleared and cleaned or else the mind can be put aside, the mind can be put aside, put aside means going beyond the mind and allow the heart to pulsate on it's own, where the purity of the heart is received through the experiential level. Good. And if mind is added then the purity of the heart is experienced on the experiential level and when mind is combined through it, a certain comprehension or appreciation of the heart can also be had according to the purity of the mind. So the heart gives the experience of pure feeling which can exist on its own and the mind can appreciate it to the extent of the cleanliness or purity of the mind. That's how it works. It is not a separate entity. It is part and parcel of the whole. Okay. Fine. Questioner. Is our big ‘I’, Christ’s spirit?. Gururaj. Is our? Questioner. Big ‘I’, the Christ spirit? Gururaj. Is our big ‘I’ the Christ spirit? Oh yes, yes it is, yes. It is the Christ spirit. You can call it by any name actually, Christ consciousness, Christ spirit, Krishna spirit, Krishna consciousness, Brahman consciousness, same thing. It is the big ‘I’. Yes. You see I leave myself out of it whose questions to accept, I leave it to the Chairman. Questioner. I feel that in my own life, I have had the great good fortune coming across many people on a day to day basis at a very high level of understanding and development. What puzzles me is this, it seems that some of these people are deeply committed to and involved in religion or philosophy or some system of spiritual development. Others of these people, while being equally highly developed, are quite disinterested. How does this come about?

15. UK 76- 12 Gururaj. Yes, it is very natural. I have said this before that if there are four thousand million people in the world there should be four thousand million religions. Yes. You see if there are four thousand million people in the world there should be four thousand million religions because every person has to find his own way according to his capacity and from where he stands. So therefore, we do not condemn anyone and we do not condone anyone. A person must find his own way. Every person must formulate his own method of progress. If a person believes in Krishna, we encourage him to believe in Krishna. If a person believes in Christ, we encourage that as well. Because essentially it is all the same. What is to be encouraged, what the essence of all these various beliefs, is the sincerity and the seeking that the person has, that is the most important thing. It is not the way. If the tree has to come down in the garden, one might want to saw it down, one might want to chop it down, and one might want to dig it out, You see. So which ever way one follows, it’s not really important. It is the sincerity of the purpose that is important. And I have, I have not yet met any atheists, I have not ever met any atheists. As long as a person starts believing in something then he is automatically a Theist. You might come across a person who is an entire materialist, he believes in, he does not believe in anything beyond the material and for such a person as Vivekananda would say, ‘That what you call material, I call spirit’. It's the way one looks at things. It is the angle of vision. So therefore Christianity too says that there is no hope lost for anyone. Whichever path one chooses must lead one to the goal, even if they believe in any goal or not the goal is there. It is always there. And consciously or unconsciously man's search is for happiness and the search for happiness is itself a proof of a person wanting to find the source of happiness. And the source of happiness is what we call Divinity. So whatever the belief, whatever the belief is not important, because man progresses. If man is guided properly in a certain path, in his own path, guidance in his own path, then he would surely reach there quicker, better with less trial and error and less suffering. Okay. Fine. Questioner. Guruji, how does Kundalini fit in with man's path towards his goal? Gururaj. The question is how does Kundalini fit in with a man's path or his goal? Well that too is a path. That too is a path. Now Kundalini which is called the serpent power by some writers, is also a path where a certain recognition is made of an innate energy within us. Right. Someone would call it, say the Christian would call it Christ consciousness within us. The Tantric Shastras, that is a certain belief or a philosophy that originated in Southern India, it's called Tantric philosophy. They believe in the same consciousness that is within us but that consciousness is portrayed very symbolically by a certain power that is within us. Now they do talk about the various chakras that are within man and

16. UK 76- 12 each chakra stands for a certain stage of development or a certain aspect that is within the man. So by the practice of Kundalini Yoga, one cleanses these various aspects, these various chakras, so that this consciousness or Divine energy, that is within us could flow, could flow, could flow through our behaviour and actions in life in it's grosser form and could flow in it's subtler form until it merges away, until it merges away, into its own self. In other words, energy is a ma nifestation of the Manifestor and according to Tantric literature of which Kundalini forms a part, the manifestation merges back into the unmanifest or the Manifestor. So, it is forming a union, forming a union between Shiva and Shakti, those are the terms that are used, where Shiva and Shakti combines and forms the union. Now the Bible too teaches the same thing that man must proceed back to his source. And as Christ has said that, ‘I and my Father have become one’, or that, ‘I and my Father are one’. So it is essentially, what I am trying to point out, that these are just various paths, various paths and any path can be followed. It is not the philosophy that matters so much, but it is the practice of the philosophy and the sincerity that is behind it that matters. The sincerity to seek and wanting to achieve the union that is the whole aim and goal of life. We, for example, in our meditational practices, we do our practices based on very scientific principles which has nothing to do with any form of theology whatsoever. Therefore, even on our symbol you would find portrayed all the various religions, on our emblem, all the religions are there, so whichever religion you wish to follow, whichever path, it's immaterial, it's immaterial at all. Only thing that by meditation, we become more and more sincere and we will start understanding our own religion or path we have taken more better and more deeply. Why could we understand it more deeply, is because through meditation we can penetrate the deeper layers of the mind. Meditation gives us an experience, gives us an experience, so that if you ask someone to believe in something the person might be a great sceptic and he would not want to believe what you say. But if he experiences something, he cannot but help admitting his experience and thereby helping him to pursue Christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism more faithfully and with greater faith. And because of these qualities, he would be spurred on more and more to achieve his goal, his happiness, far quicker and more smoothly. That is very simple really. Okay. Fine. Questioner. Gururaj, could I ask you to explain the symbolism of the crucifixion and also the Adam and Eve story? Gururaj. No. That is pure theology. I wouldn't like to go into that because there are very many interpretations of these things and by me giving my interpretation would be in conflict with someone else's interpretation and we don't enter theological controversies. Okay. Fine.

17. UK 76- 12 Questioner. Can you tell me please, if you can, just, does evil have a life force of it's own? Can people really be possessed, and can evil exist outside of man? Gururaj. I didn’t catch the first part. Questioner. Does evil have a lifeforce of its own? Gururaj. And? Questioner. Can people really be possessed? Gururaj. Yes? Questioner. Can evil exist outside of man? Gururaj. Good. Yes. Beautiful question. We are going to talk about spooks. (Laughter) Evil has, evil has no lifeforce of it's own. That's the answer to your question. A person can never be possessed. Good. And the third part was? It doesn't exist. Fine. Good. Evil has no force of it's own. Good. There is only one primal energy, one primal energy and that energy can be used in whichever way man's mind wants to use it. Like the example we used, was the power of electricity. It could be put into a stove where it will produce heat and it could be put into a refrigerator where it will produce cold. So evil as evil as we would call evil, has no lifeforce of it's own and whatever evil we see is only an interpretation of our conditioned minds. What could be evil in one country, might not be evil in another country. I gave you the example the other day, of monogamy and polygamy, in one country, it could be evil, while in another country polygamy is the normal rule and it is not evil. So the standards on which evil is judged, all evil meaning something not good, evil is the opposite of good, the standards by which that which is not good is judged, is necessarily ordained by the standards of society. And these are very, very necessary, very necessary for the stabilisation of society. We live in society as a whole no man is an island to himself. We live in society as a whole and certain of these ethical and moral principles have to be formulated to stabilise society. And by finding stability in society, man too can evolve to further heights. And these various do's and don’ts like the Commandments we have of all religions, they do perform a very, very useful purpose. They perform a very, very useful purpose which will draw us away from the so-called

18. UK 76- 12 evil, so-called evil, because if we use that very energy, the same energy, if we use it wrongly or through a diseased mind or a conditioned mind, the very energy could be harmful and hurtful to people. Now when that energy is used for harm of others then we can call it evil. But in reality there is no evil. In reality there is no evil, it is just the primary, the primal energy that exists. Right. So the primal energy becomes good or bad according to how we use it. So the purpose of meditation hereto would be for us to be able to experience the primal energy at it's essential level so that we, gaining strength from it will not, will not use it wrongly. Because experiencing it, it creates in us greater joy and joy will not b e used wrongly. Good. Now the second part of the question was, could we be possessed by any evil spirit? The answer is a definite ‘No’. Now we have theories of exorcism, good, where someone is believed to be possessed by an evil spirit. Now I do not believe this. Man is so complete, his inner self is so complete that he could never, ever be possessed by another entity. What happens is this. This is a theory which goes through very, very many deeper levels. Firstly to accept this theory, one has to, to a certain extent accept reincarnation, which many people don't. It depends upon them, we do not force any theory upon anyone. But let me tell you of this one theory. It is this, that having lived many existences before, having lived many existences before and having had various lives, all kinds of lives, there could happen in the human mind, a certain factor which could make a person live a dual life at the same time. Like a schizophrenic, that at onetime, Mrs Jones could act in a certain way and at another time Mrs Jones acts in a completely different way. In other words there are two different personalities. There are two different personalities within the one body. Now in the same way, in the same way, when we had existed before in a lower form of life, when we had existed before in a lower form of life, we can in this life experience that lower form of life. Perhaps it was not a good life and that can be brought forth even in this present existence. So what happens there, is that no one else is possessing us but we are possessing ourselves. We are possessing ourselves, because of an imbalance that has taken place in our minds. We allow our memories to go back, to go back to a level of a previous existence, of a previous life and bring that life forward into this life and we behave absolutely strangely as if we are possessed. The great word is, as if we are possessed. In reality no separate entity can possess us. Now the human mind as we have discussed before, the extent of the human mind, is to the extent of the entire universe and which embraces within its folds all those various existences. And due to an imbalance of the mind, a previous existence can be reawakened and re-experienced in this lifetime. And that is why we have diseases like schizophrenia and things which are called possession. And today this idea is becoming so, so prevalent in modern society, it has become prevalent because of certain kinds of films we see. Exorcism is one of them and a lot of literature

19. UK 76- 12 that is put out which is nothing more but science fiction and sensationalism. That's all it is, all for economic purposes. I believe money-making that's all. I believe when the film Exorcist played in America, The Exorcist, the film played, I believe there were queues, queues, and people had to fight to get tickets. You see. Now through this various media, through this various media, people have been led to believe that a foreign entity can possess one, and which is not true, which is not true. Now I give you a little example that happened to us in Cape Town, Kieran will tell you about it. A woman walks into the office and she brings her little daughter fourteen years old, thirteen/fourteen. Good. And the little child had been out of school for about eighteen months and she was in a terrible state. And she was trembling, trembling, trembling all the time. She couldn't relate with anything or anybody. And the mother sat opposite me in the chair and here the daughter sat. And the first thing the mother said was that my daughter is possessed. I turned my chair and I sat looking at this girl there. And I stared at her for five minutes sending some spiritual energies, Divine energies, you can call them to her and slowly the girl stopped the trembling. And slowly, slowly, slowly she started settling down and she settled down and her eyes had been sunken in....... END

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