1. UK 78- 21 Gururaj. Namaste. Questioner. Guruji, you have said that you feel responsible for your chelas. Now what I would like to know is should we feel a responsibility to you and should this responsibility extend not only to our spiritual lives, but to our social and even the private sector of our lives? Gururaj. Of your life or my life? Voice. Our lives, Guruji. Gururaj. Beautiful question. Now what is meant by feeling responsible for a chela - I always use the term that I feel responsible for every hair on a chela's head - it means that I feel responsible having developed that closeness to you, having known you not only in the physical but in your entirety, your total psychic being, your spiritual being that which you really are. Having known that and having developed that rapport and having developed that oneness, I cannot but help feeling responsible. In short it means that I feel responsible for your physical bodies, mental bodies, psychic bodies and your spiritual evolution, to put it shortly for your entire welfare. And being dedicated to this work to fulfil my mission, the welfare has to be there in every aspect; otherwise the mission is not fulfilled. You would have people talking high-fal uting philosophy like a lot of Professors, they go from place to place, they'll give lectures on philosophy and when the teacher leaves, he leaves behind him his chelas, or listeners, or his audience whatever the case might be. When I leave, I'm never gone, because I've not come. I have always been with you. That is the difference. Now, and that can only be achieved, that oneness can only be achieved, that closeness of heart, mind and body through which we receive Divine grace. And Divine grace also needs a channel to pour through. And a man, a guru worthy of his salt is but a channel and in that closeness when the chela's heart is opened, the channel is forever there giving off of that universal which we know as gurushakti. Now when the link is formed, based upon gurushakti or based upon that universal force, that universal love, it can never be broken. And if it could never be broken through eternity, for in one form or the other beyond this little lifetime, we shall always know each other. Because here you have started recognising what that universal force is and having gained some recognition or some degree of recognition, that recognition will grow and grow and grow until you have total cognition. Now, in past lives perhaps, you had some cognitions. Now in this life, you are recognising that which had previously been cognised. Fine. I said the other day that we've known, some of us have known each other for a very,

2. UK 78- 21 very long time. And there are others that have joined the path that we had not known each other before. But the tributaries have joined the river and it makes the river more powerful and stronger. Now what does the river do? Where does the river go? The river goes to the ocean and finds oneness with the universal ocean . So here from a small stream or a tributary to the large river, and from the large river into the vastness of this universal ocean. So where is there a separation? In the ocean you would find that every drop is related to the other drop. If you stand on this shore of the ocean and stir the water there, the very vibration set up would be felt at the other end of the ocean. It is inescapable because we are governed by that universal force and love. That is the only guidance. That is the only force that does exist. And we little waves jump up and down. But where can we jump to? You must have heard of this pea we have, in Hindi it’s called Channa, its chickpea I think it is called, chickpea. Good. Now there is a way of baking it when it can be used as a nut instead of making a curry. Now, they use a very large pan for that with the fire burning underneath and in the pan they have some sand. And the chickpeas are thrown in it, so it is baked in the sand. Now, as the shell cracks open, these peas, these nuts they jump up. They jump. But when they jump up, there is only one place they can fall again, in the pan. So, as much as we regard ourselves to be individual beings, we are caught up in this Divine flow of Divinity and we cannot escape it. We can be truant, we can be errant but the flow is there and even if the path is lost, even if we lose our way reaching to wherever we want to go to, eventually we will find our destination because that is a must. We have to reach home and rest. So there is, because of this communication, because of this oneness, the welfare of every chela is but my welfare. Do you see the difference? When you love with the intensity of universal love, all separation ceases. So when you cry, you cry my tears and I cry your tears. When you laugh, you laugh my laughter and I laugh your laughter. So when there is no separation, when the individuality of souls are lost and brought into the confines of universality which the guru understands and has experienced, then the welfare of the chela is but the welfare of himself and thus the welfare at a greater stage, welfare of the universe. Yes. But, there has to be some receptivity. There has to be the mutuality. There has to be this flow, this giving. Now that is the responsibility of the guru. What is the responsibility of the chela? The responsibility of the chela is nothing much. The responsibility of the chela is just to open himself through his practices, through his love to receive this Divine flow of love. That is his responsibility. So his responsibility is to open himself up to that. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing more. Some people do extend that basic responsibility and make it manifest in various ways of assisting the guru in his work or in all perhaps his meagre necessities of life. They do assist him and that is appreciated but not necessary. For he that gives and gives and gives will always be receiving and receiving and receiving. It is a spring that never dries up. It’s an eternal spring. That is the responsibility of the chela. Many of you for

3. UK 78- 21 example here, on my birthday and on Christmas time sent me cards and little gifts. Now these I regarded as wonderful expressions of the love that you feel. Although it is not necessary, but sometimes the expressions are there and yet if there was no expression, the love I have for you would be never lessened. It is the same. That is the development of what we call the equal eye to observe, to feel, to communicate with everything and everyone with an equal eye. So these are the responsibilities of the guru and these are the responsibilities of the chela. And when these are brought together, life flowers in its total beauty. Okay. Fine. Aide. Okay. Guruji, we have several questions written out by people who are not sitting in front here, so I'll read the question out. The first one is by Phyllis Bennett. Questioner. Something that has confused me is the concept of very high planes such as Bramalokka where great souls such as Christ, Krishna etc reside. Surely ultimately one merges so completely with the absolute that no individuality even of the subtlest level is left? Gururaj. Good. Now what about it? (Gururaj laughs) This is a question, how much time are you giving me by the way to speak? How much time have I got? Because this question here in the resolution of the individuality to universality would take me at least an hour. Voice. We haven't got it. (General laughter) Well if you speak for an hour that's five to ten ........... (Inaudible) Gururaj. Then there's packing - that's enough thank you. (Gururaj laughs) Nevertheless (General laughter and applause) Gururaj. There is one basic fear which many people have and that fear is losing individuality. Right. The loss of individuality means that the person, the individual has a sense of clinging to life. Now life is good, life has to be lived but the sense of clinging to it as if that was the only thing, that is wrong. Within eternity this short span of three score and ten is not even a moment, not even the flicker of a eyelid and yet we forget the eternity of life and want to cling to the flicker of an eyelid. Good. Now with this sort of clinging, so many negativities are produced because we think that this little human frame is so so important that we lose the larger concept of what life is. Someone has asked a similar question that one day when I reach the state of total unity and I merge away in the absolute, then where am I, what's it worth. What is it worth? Look, I'll be losing my individuality. Good.

4. UK 78- 21 Now to lose individuality and gain universality is not a loss of individuality but the expansion of individuality to its totallest, fullest limit, to its totality. So there is no loss. If a person has a little capacity to love today and through some years he develops a greater capacity to love where he finds oneness in everything, he has not lost his individuality but he has extended and expanded his universality. So this has been a misconception, that when I merge away into God, then where am I? Now what is more important that Divinity or this little me, John, Jack or Jill. Good. It is better sacrifice this little conception of ourselves if we can, but of course we're talking of still another couple of hundred lifetimes away. Yes . For some people. Some might even reach there far quicker. So in the recognition and in finding oneself unified with the totality that there is, one becomes total and becoming total, having experienced the totality, the individualness does not matter. Because you are losing one penny and gaining a million pounds. You are putting one penny in the slot machine and gaining a million. This means that when you reach that stage of the universal self, you are living in every atom existent. What great gain? Now you are only living in this one small little framework but then you'd be living in everythin g that is existent and therefore your individuality has been so expanded. Now to find this universality, one necessarily has to subdue the ego. The ego cannot be annihilated. It too is eternal, but it can be subdued or better still, it can be expanded like you would expand rubber material to its finest level where in the end it just melts away into the universality. Now when in the question it is said about the various Lokas or the various planes of existences, do remember that all these various planes of existences beyond the world as we know it, is still in the relative plane, is still in the relative plane. When Krishna and Buddha and Christ and all these people are mentioned, they are mentioned in the sense of the relative plane but such Avatars, such men, such incarnations could combine within the relativity of their small self that universality. Good. Now to reach this universality or this unity consciousness, one has to go through a process of duality. And that is why all the concepts of all kinds of heavens have been brought forth. Now these heavens mean nothing more but a sense of refinement and a refinement of our individual selves so that we could exist in another dimension, a much finer dimension, where these little sufferings and agonies of life are not felt anymore because we have gone beyond them. And yet that fine state called the Brahmaloka is still in the relative. Once one reaches there, there is still a far way to go. But reaching that state is the recognition of the finest sense of duality. Now duality too has different stages. You could feel dual in a very very gross sense and you can still experience the duality in the finest subtlest sense possible. So in that plane of existence that has been mentioned, you have learned to experience your subtlest level and with that subtlest level, you regard the universality or unity as separate from yourself within the framework, within the conception of the subtlest level of mind, body and feeling, and heart that you have reached. Now you feel that I am here

5. UK 78- 21 and Divinity is there. The same feeling will persist in these higher planes of existences. The duality will still be felt but not on the gross level as we feel it now. It will be felt on a far more subtler level where actually the absolute shines through as if through a transparent piece of glass, but the glass is there and the light is there. So, in that high plane of existence, the duality still persists though the light is shining through in its full clarity. But when one approaches still nearer, that very glass through which the light shines through melts away into the light and that is unity consciousness. And that is the ultimate stage. Now, when a person reaches the stage of unity consciousness then you can experience every form of individuality. That is why when some Sage was asked about food, he says 'Why should I worry - oh, thank you - why should I worry about eating when there are millions of mouths in the world eating for me?' Do you see the beauty? Do you see the symbology of that? Why should I worry about feeding my mouth when there are millions of mouths that are eating for me? Good. That is at the subtlest level when the unity of all existence is experienced. Now, all these planes of existences and the explanation for that is very fine but as you know - ah lovely - but as you know what we are concerned about most are not those existences and those dimensions and those worlds. We are concerned with this world here and now. Those worlds that we know exist, are in the future. And the worlds that we have come through are in the past. We are the product of the totality of all the existences that we had lived before. We are the sum-total of it. Fine. Now, we, though we are the s um -total of it, we do not need to analyse what made this total. If the figure is a hundred we do not need to analyse if the hundred was composed of twenty fives, or so many sixes and so many other figures. We are not concerned. We are concerned about what we are here and now. Why talk of the hereafter and all those worlds that we are going to know about or visit or live in or experience all those dimensions? What dimension (Gururaj coughs) - am I catching a cold just while I'm leaving? Good. We are interested in the dimension we are living here now and how we can enhance that dimension. Now man has the ability, because his mind can encompass the entire universe, man has the ability though being embodied and with limitations in this world, physical limitations, his mind can experience all those existences here and now. Sometimes when you go off into deep meditation and when you reach the subtler levels or the subtlest level of your mind, that's before reaching the absolute, you can visit all those dimensions and be in those dimensions and know what Brahmaloka is or what all these various dimensions are. So that is why it is so easy for man to achieve that unity consciousness while still being known as a human being. It is not necessary to go step by step from one plane to the next plane to the plane thereafter and then reach the unity that we all have to reach. No, they can all be here and now experienced. Now, don't think of these dimensions as one ending

6. UK 78- 21 somewhere and the next one starting. All these dimensions interpenetrate each other throughout this universe. Human beings think that this little world is all that matters. But do you know that this world and similar people like us are replicated by million times throughout the universe. You don't even need to come back to this planet in the next incarnation. You have to come back to a planet that would suit your need to fulfil the lesson or learn the lesson that you have to learn, perhaps in another galaxy where there would be a planet very similar to this one. Yes. But, in the sum totality of things, like the pyramid so broad at the base, having a few hundred blocks of granite, all those universes, but a t the top end, the narrow end, the pinnacle, it is just but one the one point. So as we progress through life, as the expansion of mind and heart takes place, we recognise the closeness of everything. We get away from the vastness that there is and condense the entire vastness of the universe in this little frame of a body. And then we could really say as the Sanskrit Sages have said Brahmas Mee. It means 'I am Brahma'. But until reaching that stage, we cannot say that. When a person studies and becomes a Physician and qualifies then he can say 'I am a Physician'. When an Architect studies and when he really passes and becomes an Architect then he can say, 'I am an Architect'. Same thing one has to reach the stage of Brahman or that universal being then one can say 'I am Brahma', until then we can't. But we do indulge in these mental conceptions, mental understandings and sometimes mental understandings can play tricks on us which lead us just to mental gymnastics. So therefore I say, the important thing is here and now and what we can do about it, how we can refine that inner self, the inner self of the subtle body so that we could become nearer in cognition of the reality of ourselves. And that can be done in one lifetime. For that which seems so far away is but here and now. It is said that Divinity is large as the largest thing you could conceive of and yet as small as the smallest thing you can think of. So you see that power, that force that is within us, is so small and yet so large. It is everywhere and yet confined right inside here. It sounds paradoxical but so, so true. And it can be experienced. It can be experienced. So the Brahmalokas and all these various Lokas are fine, they are there and with proper meditation, we can experience them here and now. We don't need to travel all that way and delay time. For that unity can be experienced here and now. Okay. Fine. Next. Aide. Guruji, another question - who is this from? Ah, Okay. The strong feelings of devotion which we feel towards you because of what you represent to us are to some extent stifled by world demands and responsibilities. Is the desire to hold those strong feelings another tie to the wheel of karma? Should we be content with the spontaneous feelings of love rather than striving to reproduce them, or to produce them, rather? Where does the balance lie between desire and desirelessness? That's a long question. Do you want me to read that again?

7. UK 78- 21 Gururaj. No. It’s not necessary. I understand the question. Because, having the responsibilities of worldly living, one wo uld feel that the devotion that one has is to a certain extent stifled. Now if we examine this closely we would find there is no stifling whatsoever, because the devotion although one-pointed, although one-pointed has many facets like a diamond, that very devotion could be portrayed, could be expressed in all the circumstances of our life and find the same very devotion to be the motivating force in every aspect of our life. So, in daily living there are so many problems, so many responsibilities, so many duties which we think, which we think are curbing us or stifling us. Good, that is so. That is so from a very superficial conception. What we have to do is to take the same devotional power, the same devotional power which is one-pointed and take that one-pointedness of the devotion and spread it into every aspect of life. And then the ideal is still fulfilled. Good. Now when you talk of a guru and having devotion to a guru or, then you would mean the little frame of his body but the guru is not that. The guru is not just his body. The guru is, the inner self of him that he has realised is so universal that it covers every aspect of your daily living. So, if that same force that you experience with the confined personality could be understood properly then you would know that the force within the guru is a universal power and that universal power embraces everything in existence. So the small world we live in, the circumstances, the environment, the same devotion has to be extended and could be extended and in most cases it is extended to every single happening in our environment. And the same purpose is served. Good. Is it not said in the Scriptures that, 'Do not look for me' - this you will find in Taoism - 'Do not look for me in a particular place for I am everywhere, in the meanest little worm, in the stone which you trip over on the way, in the bus that you sit in going to work, in the car you drive, in the flower that grows in your garden, in the love your wife has for you and the love you have for your wife, in your relationship with your friends.' It is the same universal force. It’s the same universal force that encompasses all this, all this, all this, one force. And if on e man can capture the entirety of this force within his being, you can capture that force too. You can capture that force too. But the way to capture that force is in firstly in recognition of that force, that that force is universal and knowing it to be universal, we lose our little individual self in that universal self. And when that is accomplished, then everything around us assumes the form of the same one and only Divinity. Yes. Now, where is the boundary between desire and desireless? Should that be the last now? Nine twenty. Good. The boundary between desirelessness and desire. Now there are some believe, some philosophers teach that you should be desireless. Very good. But how practical is it? How practical is it? There's not a moment in a person's life when he is devoid of some kind of desire. He has the desire to meet a friend. He has the desire to eat. He has a desire to do this that or the other. So desire will always be there because the human mind until it is transcended has to have all

8. UK 78- 21 these kinds of desires. But desires need qualification. Is the desire selfish or is the desire selfless? Now when the desire is selfish, it becomes binding and that selfish primal desire will produce more and more desires and encapture you, puts you into bondage. It’s like the silk worm weaving its silk and then in the end get caught up in its own spinning. That happens. But when the desire is selfless - selfless desire means not that you neglect yourself, not that you neglect your necessities. Those necessities have to be there. You have to drink water. You have to eat food. You have to pay rent. That is not selfish. That too could be regarded selfless because you are providing for the necessities. But when one becomes possessively so, then it is selfish. When one becomes possessively so, it is selfish because in the very word possession, there is contained the seeds, the roots of greed and avarice and covetousness and everything which is totally again the Ten Commandments or the injunctions of every Scripture. Good. Now when a person, through consciously practising in daily life, through self-help becomes less and less and less selfish, he becomes more and more and more selfless. Good. Now a selfless desire could be a desire to help humanity, to help one's brother man, to feel the joy and to feel the tears of one's fellow man and all creatures on earth. Now that too is a desire but it is a selfless desire and selfless desire is the same as desirelessness. Do you see the difference? Man can never be devoid of desire. But when selfish desire is sublimated to selfless desire, then the very desire becomes desireless. That is the secret. If a person chucks up all desires then he can't live in this world. He must go and live in some cave and yet he will still have desires for warmth and food and sustenances. That is escaping. So what we do with everything in life, we elevate it, we sublimate it, we do not run away from desire. We do not run away from our basic urges because they could be very damaging, misleading and could lead to all kinds of confusion and fragmentations of the human personality. So we start from where we stand and gradually as we sublimate them or use the same desire from a different angle, a different viewpoint, then the very desire becomes desireless. Like I would say, if you give a teddy boy a sharp knife he would kill someone, but give the sharp instrument, the sharp knife to a Physician and he will perform an operation and save someone's life. But the knife is the same. It is how the force, how the power is used ..... desire into desirelessness by moving away from selfishness to selflessness. That is the secret. Okay. Fine. Good. Aide. Do you want some more? Gururaj. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Aide. How much more time do we have?

9. UK 78- 21 Aide. .... (Inaudible) Aide. I have an infinitely long question. This is by who - the question on evolution. Okay. Now this is a question actually that's been on my mind very much and I think if you read a little bit in the various esoteric traditions this question comes up time and again. On the one hand we are told that man has evolved through the mineral, plant, and animal kingdoms. This is one kind of position that's often presented by these schools. On the other hand, Scriptures, for example, the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, teach that man began as a pure innocent soul and descended or fell from a subtle level, where he lived in harmony, to the physical plane. How do we reconcile these apparently contradictory teachings? Now I'm acquainted with the book you're talking about and the claim they make there is that there was no transition through these other kingdoms but just that the human soul was born as a human soul and descended and then began to evolve again. So that the picture that they give us is the same once they are at the human kingdom but they're different in that some say no, they've never gone through these other kingdoms and that some say they have. And there's a lot that take both positions. Okay, Guruji. Gururaj. Okay. Those are not the only two views. There's another viewpoint also that man never went through all these processes of evolution, but man as he is on this planet, came down from another planet as man and went through perhaps so many mutations to be where he is. That's number three. I can tell you number four too. That everything was created in six days. I can tell you of number five also. Yes. Like that man's mind tries to conceive of various ideas. He tries to explain that which is inexplicable. This has always remained the mystery of philosophy. Now many of the claims have been disproved by scientific analysis. But how true is scientific analysis? Now the theory of evolution, progressive evolution does appeal to many minds. The reason it appeals to many minds is because they have studied the progress of man, right from the first primate being, the Neanderthal man and even those before him. Scientists have and archaeologists have through their excavations found the various stages of progress from the most primitive man to the highly evolved man. So through that, the assumption, although this too is hypothetical, that an evolution, evolution has taken place from the lower man to the higher man. Good. Now if that be true, what stops man from thinking that from primitive man where did he come from? Many similarities have been found between primitive man and the animal kingdom. So they would assume hypothetically too, that there was a stage before man and that was the animal man which descended far lower into the various species of the animal kingdom. Good. They still go further back and they have found correlations in the plant kingdom where the inherent emotion in man, in the sophisticated man today, the feeling of the sophisticated man has also been verified and corroborated in plant life. They

10. UK 78- 21 have found that the very molecular structure of all the atoms that consists, that are in the universe, in the stage of man, i n the stage of animal, in the stage of plant and in the mineral stage, are of a similar structure. So if they have seen or known that there has been evolutionary progress within the framework of the human being then that too must have had a start. And so they traced this back until they reached the atom. And yet searches are still going on where they are trying to go to find substances beyond the atom, because even the smallest atom is a world, a total functioning world unto self. And they have not as yet reached the finest, subtlest form of matter. They will not reach that. They will not reach that because the essence of matter is energy and energy too in its various gradations, is of such a fine nature that only when the absolute is conceived of would they know what energy really is. But then man has to evolve to the stage of the absolute, leaving the relative behind. This could be done on an individual basis but never on a world-wide age of enlightenment basis. It cannot be done. Fine. That is one theory. There's another theory that only thing, the only thing that exists is the absolute and superimposed upon the absolute is the relative. The relative too is eternal as the absolute is eternal and the relative being a superimposition cannot be self existent while the absolute is self luminous, self empowered, self propelled and self existent. Good. Now the problem lies in the fact that the relative is regarded to be real and not wrongly so. The wrong view is this that we think that the relative is self-existent and not a reflection. If we see a reflection in a mirror of the sun, we cannot say that the reflection is not there. The reflection is there. The reflection too is real, but the concept that the reflection is caused by its own steam, by its own power, that is unreal and that is known as Maya. That is known as Maya. That is known as the illusion. So the reflection we see in the mirror has its reality, a certain form of reality, but it is not self-empowered or self- luminous. But man's idea of it being self-luminous, man's idea of clinging to this individuality because thinking it is the end and aim and all of life, that conception is the illusion and that is the Maya. So if we examine this in the context of the superimposition, if we examine this in the context that there is only the one luminous sun and everything else is but a reflection, then the reflection is non-existent from the value of the absolute, but only existent from the value of the relative. Now if we look at the whole structure of the universe from the value of the absolute and finding from that vantage point the non-existent of the universe, then where is evolution. There's no evolution. There's no reincarnation. There is nothing. There is nothing. Good. But we cannot conceive of this yet, until we reach the absolute. It comes to the stage when that very same unity consciousness that we spoke about, could find everything to be non-existent, yet existent. Everything already evolved and yet at the same time evolving. And this will come when we transcend the law of opposites, where everything is true. Because only truth exists and our conception of the relative world is real only in

11. UK 78- 21 relation to its relativity. And when it is real only within itself and within the conception of man's mind, it will become real to us. But the attachment to it and knowing or feeling it to be the all of everything, that is the misconception. That is the illusion. Good. So, to this question the mystery of all philosophy, there are so many answers. What do you understand about it, that is the important thing. That is the important thing. Okay. It would require a book on that really. It would require a book on that. On that question. Aide. It is getting rather late. Maybe this is one you might be able to........... (Inaudible) If you're going to eat Guruji Gururaj. I don't need to. Aide. You need to. Voice. We've got to rearrange the room anyway so we might as well. Gururaj. Oh you have to rearrange for the concert. We're cramming in a lot tonight, aren't we? Nevertheless we could have the Courses longer next time if people have the time. Aide. We've been talking a lot about this. It just seems that a five-day Course is just not long enough. You see a five-day Course really means that it’s three days. We have three full days. And perhaps next year Gururaj. Or else we could arrange for three Satsangs a day, I don't mind. Aide. Well. Okay. We'd need longer Courses though. Seven days would be a nice Course because then we'd have five full days. Gururaj. Then it’s not everyone that could attend seven days. That is the difficulty. Voice. If people have a week off, they'd have a weekend off anyway.

12. UK 78- 21 Aide. See that's the thing. If a person takes five days off which they have done here, it wouldn't be anything more to take two more days off. So we could start on a Friday evening and go through until the following Friday evening. Gururaj. Tonight's questions believe you me, were so deep and so profound that I have only touched the surface of it really, because each question requires at least an hour, hour and a half. It’s a total, total lecture on its own. I would like to have copies of those though. They’re very good. Brilliant. Brilliant. Aide. Okay. END