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1. UK 78- 39 Gururaj. Well it's so nice to see old friends with bright new shining faces. Shall we start off with questions right away? Questioner. Could you tell me what is meant by fully self-realised and whether there is any difference between the terms self-realised and enlightened? Gururaj. It's a lovely question. You're either self-realised or not self-realised. It is not a question of being fully self- realised. Self-realisation itself is a fullness and in being a fullness, does not require the qualification of fully. Good. Now self-realisation is the state when one reaches into a different consciousness. This consciousness allows man to experience the entire universe within himself, not as an object because he as the subject exists no more. So here, the self-realised man is a person to whom the subject and object has become One and he has proceeded from various forms of duality into Unity. That is a self-realised man. Now, in the higher spheres of existence, for the realised man, also exists outwardly. He might seem a mere normal man, but his real self is realised. In other words, he knows himself and this is verified by the Scriptures, where it is sai d 'Man, know thyself '. Good. Now in that state, a person reaches a deep fine subtlety. In other words, from a gross level of existence, he has reached the finest level of existence and anything which is very fine is normally described as light and therefore the term 'illumined'. Now in the three dimensions that man operates, there would be the law of opposites by which he is governed, pleasure, pain, light, darkness. So in the three dimensional world that man lives, he will always find the law of opposites because he is governed by the three Gunas that we have spoken about at the Hayes Course: Tamas, Rajas and Sattva. Now the nature of Tamas – this would be a repetition for those that were not there. The nature of Tamas is darkness and inertia and the nature of Sattva is light. And when a person has reached the Sattvic state of life that means, do remember, that he has not destroyed Tamas and neither Rajas - Rajas is the activating factor - he has not destroyed Tamas and neither has he destroyed Rajas, but his whole life is dominated by Sattva, dominated by light. That light being so powerful that the darkness, though it exists, assumes non-existence. When the light burns in his room, we can not say that darkness has disappeared, or darkness has been annihilated. Darkness is there because as soon as we switch off the light, darkness would appear. So because it can appear again, it is existent; annihilation would mean that it could not appear again. So in this state, the enlightened man, having reached the finest level of Sattva, is embodied with light. And if a man has the inner sense of sight, he can see light only. He can see light only. A Yogi will tell you and sometimes I personally find it very difficult to close my eyes, there's still light. I say ‘Why don't they switch the blooming things off?’ Everything I

2. UK 78- 39 talk about at all the talks, at all the various courses are things that I've personally experienced. That helps us a bit. Good. Fine. So, when man starts living and existing as light, then he's called illumined, self-illumined. So what I'm trying to say that self-realisation and self illumination is the same. There is no difference between self-realisation and self-illumination and self-illumination is God Realisation. When man knows himself, he knows God, because knowing himself does not mean knowing his body and his mind, but knowing the essence that is 'he'. And that essence is Divinity and that is God Realisation. Fine. Now it is said, as you have mentioned in your question, that there are seven realised men, seven realised beings is a better word, because why should we exclude the women. (Gururaj laughs) Yes, this is a necessary must. Now the energy and power generated by the seven beings is the force and the power that preserves a balance in the universe. This power is demonstrated, not only in its spiritual value but it is also demonstrated in its physical value. Let us think back, let us think of the Law of Gravity. Do you know that the entire universe functions in a great precision? Everything is so precise, except us of course. The orbit of the planets, the gravitational pull, is so well balanced. If it was not balanced, this earth would not rotate on its axis; it won't. There would be chaos, there would be disturbance. Now this very spiritual force manifests itself on a grosser level to preserve the balance, not only of this earth, but of the entire universe. Now it is not necessary for the self-realised beings to be incarnate. It is not necessary. The Self Realised being has the option of merging away into unity, becoming one with the force that is there, or he has the option of remaining on the verge, sitting on the fence, where he can by will merge away into unity or be in duality. There is a magnetic pull in the universe, or in our case, let us talk of the earth. The sum totality of the world's thought creates a magnetic pull. A magnetic force is created, whereby that realised man in the form of an Avatar, in the form of a Christ, in the form of a Buddha or in the form of a Krishna, is drawn to this earth. It can be verified by the injunction of the Gita for example, an d every major religion says that, for example, the Christian or Jewish faiths always talk of the coming of the Messiah. The Gita says that 'When a great imbalance occurs, I come from age to age to preserve the balance'. So there comes a time, there comes a time in this whole gravitational pull, or in this whole evolutionary push, that a little imbalance occurs and when this imbalance occurs, it creates, as we said a magnetic pull where this old man sitting on the fence has to come down. I say old man because that realised spirit is eternal, he has become one with eternity. Now do remember that this imbalance, to our linear way of thinking, to our three dimensional way of thinking seems such a long time. But it is the wink of an eyelid in that dimension. So, such a person comes down to earth in an embodied form that you can hear, touch, smell and see according to your dimension. So this non-dimensionless being comes down into three dimensions, into a three-dimensional being. Now think, think carefully that here is a being that is as vast as the universe.

3. UK 78- 39 Let us picture to ourselves an ice cream cone - whichever kind of ice cream, it doesn't matter if it's raspberry, strawberry, fine, we are only thinking of the cone - at the broad end, it is broad, as we know and then you have the narrow end. Now just imagine a non dimensional being from the vastness of the universe, comes down into this little dimension, into this little small embodiment and subjects himself to the laws of opposites, so that the body he takes on is subject also to birth, decay and death. But if such a being is so established in himself, having captured the entire universe within his folds, he watches his outer self, he watches himself as the human performing its various functions which he has to perform. When he is hungry, he eats, when he is thirsty, he drinks water, when he has other biological needs, he performs them. And yet the steadiness is there, the pivot is there that is forever still. Like the wheel, the hub is still. The axle is still and yet the wheel turns and turns and turns. Do come inside. We've been waiting for you. Namaste. Now, when it comes to a self-realised being, he does not need to have a body. Only the Avatar or the teacher that has to teach. The eternal wanderer, he is always the eternal wanderer and in our terms we would call him totally restless. For a moment he is on this planet, the next moment on another planet, the third moment, somewhere else. So on and on and on he goes and because he goes on and on and on, this whole universe goes on and on and on. Divinity is such an abstract force that it could only have effect if it concretises itself. To be effective, the hydropower in the river, hydro electricity is useless unless it is put through the various mechanisms of the generator, so that this light can burn. So therefore Divinity too takes form, the formless takes form. And yet the illumined being is so far beyond form and formlessness that to him, all form is formless and all formlessness is form. Paradoxical? Yes. Paradoxical, but so, so true, it is too realised. Now, it is throughout the ages, as far as we know in recorded history, there have been some realised men, beings, sorry, sorry, I keep on forgetting, there have been some realised beings. Now these realised beings started off exactly as we started off, as the primal atom that we spoke about at the Hayes. They have progressed, they have unfolded themselves to reach the core of the atom that they really are. Science is still trying to discover it. I hope they do. Good. Their aim is to find themselves and that is all but just to merge away in their very essence, which is bliss. From bliss they came and back to bliss. That is what they want to do. Fine. Now, to preserve the balance of the universe, those seven - seven is regarded also to be some mystical number, I don't know the meaning of it - but the power generated by that quantity is sufficient to preserve this balance and they refuse to merge into unity. They have not the power to take bodily form, for there could be only one Avatar, one Incarnation at a time. But this Incarnation that comes to earth, this Christ or Krishna or Buddha that comes to earth, has all the power and the support of the other six. For it is within the scope of the incarnation whenever required, to draw

4. UK 78- 39 upon those forces and bring the entire universe in his palm and hand it to you. It’s beautiful. Those are the mechanics of how this universe functions. Now these things cannot be proved in test tubes, but it can be proved in a different type of test tube, the test tube of experience. Yes. We humans are at such a level that even if Christ should pass you, you won't turn your head. It is not because Christ is not Christ, but it is because you are you and the eyes are not sufficiently opened to be able to recognise. The eyes are not sufficiently open to recognise. Someone told me, I don't know if I said this before that if Christ should walk down your main street, or the main street of any city, he might be arrested for vagrancy. Yes. Yes. Yes. For he does not care what he looks like o r -. In the modern world today, if he was around, if he was around he would try his best to conform to society's laws and regulations, which are but man made. For such a man, if we can call him a man, is a law unto himself. And who are we to judge such a man? Ah, blasphemy, if we should. Who are we to judge such a man because we are judging him with our own rule and our ruler might, the foot might not have the required twelve inches. Ask Norman, he's a teacher, he'll tell you! (Gururaj laughs) Beautiful, beautiful. Yes, yes, yes. So therefore, so therefore the Scriptures would say 'Judge ye not, judge ye not, that ye be judged'. Forget the second part that ye be judged, let us just remember the first for the time being, judge not, because we are not capable to judge. Someone asked me a question the other day, ‘Must one chela measure the evolution of another chela?’ I said ‘Definitely not. You have not the right. How can you judge?’ One chela might be so highly evolved but with such a rough exterior. And you might be so sophisticated, are you to judge? A meditator came to me in Cape Town, who had spent seven years in jail for doing a misdeed. Some people when they found out about this, started looking down upon him. And I know that just this misdeed, a victim of circumstances, perhaps the circumstances was brought upon himself by himself. Okay. Okay. Who has not erred? What man is so perfect? Does the Scriptures not say that 'He that is perfect or sinless cast the first stone'? Does it not say that? How much to learn from that. Who are you to judge this man? And yet I have found that this man that spent seven years in jail was so, so highly evolved. And perhaps in his path of evolution, he needed that time in jail, so that he could examine himself, so that he could evaluate himself, so that he could dive deep within himself and know himself. So we do not judge. So therefore I say that most of us might have Christ just passing us by and we will not know. So back to the subject after some water. Now the seven realised men in the universe, do not regard them as human because they have transcended human values, but regard them as force. Regard them as basic forces that regulate the functioning of the universe. For example, in the spectrum of light, you have seven colours, is that right, seven. Good. Actually it is one light. There is only white. But that put through the prism of relative functioning appears to us as red and green and blue and yellow. So

5. UK 78- 39 these realised beings, being the closest, being at its finest Sattvic value, the finest manifestation of Sattva is in the form of light. That is why they are illumined. Now these forces combine, combine to be supportive to the servant of humanity. Who was Krishna, who was Christ, who was Buddha? To themselves they felt, we called them Lord this and Lord that, but to themselves they felt that 'I am the servant of the world, servant of humanity'. They become so humble, so ordinary, so normal, that even when you bow to such a personage, he allows you to bow, not because he needs your homage, he allows you to bow for yourself. He does not require the homage of anyone. He is beyond all that. He is beyond all the laws of opposites, but he allows you to do it for yourself so that you yourself can develop the required devotion. So that you yourself can open up the pinched heart in devotion, in surrender, in love, in self-denial, in self-sacrifice, as a offering of yourself. You go to a holy man and bow to him. In that very bow, in that very gesture - it must not be mechanical of course, that's nonsense, we don't take note of that - but when the whole mind and body and heart is put in that bow, the wholeness of your being is being offered at the feet of a holy man. So, such a man to repeat, does not require any homage, but he allows it for your sake, so that you benefit, not him, because he is beyond all gains and losses. So now to recap, there are these beings, which we would call forces, in the universe that need not be incarnate. For having been self-illumined or having reached self¬ realisation, they do not need to be embodied again. But the Avatar, the eternal wanderer, the Teacher, he takes body, he gets embodied again and again and again so that he can teach, serve humanity, for he regards himself as the lowest of the lowest servant. And in his work, he is supported by those forces that we have spoken about. Okay. Bless you. Next question. No, let Peter carry on. It can always be done tomorrow. Come along. Peter. You gave a very inspiring talk on Raja Yoga at the Hayes last year or January. Could you talk about the Chakras? Gururaj. Oh Peter you were not at the Hayes because I gave a two-part talk on the Kundalini Yoga. Yes. Keith would you arrange for Peter to have that where we went into the different aspects of the various Chakras and the whole Kundalini system and where we exploded some of the myths that is surrounding this whole so-called esoteric mysterious occult. Rubbish. That is a good idea, Gita has a good idea that perhaps one afternoon or one morning the tape can be played to the teachers and from that questions could arise and then we can still go more deeper into the subject. It would be nice. It depends, I'm your guest. Aide. I would be nice if the diagrams would accompany the tape.

6. UK 78- 39 Gururaj. Have we got the diagrams? We've got some blackboards Gururaj. Yes. It would be good. We can still get through another one or two, three, four. We had a lovely Course at the Hayes. Unfortunately some of you couldn't make it there. It was really beautiful. There was such a warmth and a flow and a love people were just radiating. Light becomes one light. Good. Questioner. Gururaj, an integral part of all our practices consists in going beyond or outside of the time, but time is fundamentally inherent in all creation, that every aspect of our lives is bounded by rhythm, by recurrent patterns ranging from the passing of the seasons to our own heartbeat, besides many others too subtle for our senses to appreciate. Please would you talk about this apparent anomaly? Gururaj. Anomaly? The answer to that question is so simple, to be in the world and yet not of it. So therefore it does not remain a anomaly and neither does it remain a paradox. The entire universe, as we said in the previous question, functions very precisely and in a definite rhythmic pattern. But within this pattern, within this rhythm, within the functioning of the entire universe - Namaste, we were waiting for you, -people have travelled from a distance, just tell me when to stop, if people want to rest, okay. Good. So the entire universe functions within the framework of a rhythm. Everything is precise, the heartbeat, the seasons, as Alison has said, but I am not too sure about the seasons as it is supposed to be summer. (Gururaj laughs) Good. Now, oh yes, yes, good, but we accept the fact that there is a rhythm and the rhythm itself is the purpose. The rhythm has no purpose but the rhythm itself is the purpose. In other words, the rhythm is self-contained within itself, for itself, by itself. For within this rhythm of existence, within this rhythm of relativity, that which is beyond the relative is an integral part. Think about that. The absolute is an integral part of the relative. That is what it means. We again start to think in a linear fashion that the relative is separate from the absolute. Language is so limited that true experience can not be put in words, so we use words like transcend and beyond, and below and above. There is no such thing. What one experiences is this, through meditation and spiritual practices, is the subtler aspects of all existence. Because as said earlier, the human mind, the small little intellect functions linearly, wants to proceed from A, B, C, D, to Z. Therefore we think in those terms, that this is gross and this is subtle and this is here and that is there. And these two things, this and that are apart. They are not apart. All these dimensions, all these worlds coexist, interpenetrating each other.

7. UK 78- 39 So therefore, the Scriptures say that Divinity is closer to you than yourself. There's nowhere where you have to go and look for Him - if it is a He, I don't know why they call it a He. There's nowhere you have to go and look for ‘It’. It is closer to us than ourselves. Fine. So when we use the word beyond, we use it in a very limited sense, in a limited sense because language cannot describe the inner penetratedness of all dimensions. Because we are limited to three dimensions, but in developing the knowingness, we start knowing the fourth dimension and the fifth and the sixth, the entirety of all dimensions, until everything becomes dimensionIess. That word too is so difficult to understand, dimensionless. We could use another word, - something is valueless and something is invaluable. Now when you use the word 'in', it could also mean it is without value, and yet it is priceless, you can't value it. One is valueless and the other is invaluable, which in a sense is valueless because you cannot attach value to it. You see how language is so stupid, so limited, so limited. So there again, when we use the word beyond, it is not proceeding from one place to the other, it is a realisation that happens within us, not created by us, happens within us, to know of greater and greater dimensions, of further and further dimensions. When we stand here on the floor, we see things in two dimensions. If we stand, we see the length and the breadth as Amrit said the other day, but if we stand higher up, we see it in three dimensions, you see the length, the breadth and the height. But what if you could stand higher still, higher not in the sense of space or time, but higher withi n one's self and there to perceive the various dimensions. You can just close your eyes, for those who can, and you would fail to see faces, that that is Peter and that is Norman and that's Hugh. What you would see is only blobs of light, that's all, light, light, light, light. Some more intense, some less intense, but just light. That is looking, seeing from a different dimension and yet there's no beyond-ness, it is just there. All that light is contained within you. There is no transcending. What are we transcending? We are bringing other dimensions to our conscious level, to our conscious level which defies perhaps explanation, but is known through the sense of knowingness. So all these various dimensions, from the meanest stone, from the grossest matter to the highest, finest relative substance is here and now contained in everything. And when one has the ability in this particular dimension to see everyone as a blob of light, you enter a further dimension where all these blobs of light is seen as one light. And further still, where you cease to remain the observer of this one light; you become the light. Then there's no observer any more, there just remains the light, existing with its own effulgence, no doer, no doing and nothing done, no doer. No doing and nothing to be done but just the 'Isness' to be experienced for the purpose of explanation. So that the logical human mind can understand and appreciate some little thing, a little fraction of Divinity, through personal rationalisation until he reaches the area of realisation. So we proceed from rationalisation to realisation that there is nothing beyond. Therefore

8. UK 78- 39 that which is above is below and that which is below is above. It ties in. All these little things which sound so simple, but so deep in meaning, so deep in meaning and the meaning becomes deeper still as our awareness expands. Then we appreciate the greater and greater truth of what is said. A boy of twelve might read the Gita or Koran or the Bible, and he will have a certain understanding of it. Ten years later, fifteen years later or twenty years later, when he reads the same, he will gain another understanding, a deeper understanding of it. Now the Gita and the Bible has not changed, but he has changed. So as the awareness expands to its fullest level then there is nothing beyond, there is nothing above, there is nothing below. It is just here and all the dimensions are intertwined within each other, telescoped within each other. There might be a better word, I don't know. So in our spiritual practices, when we talk of the beyond-ness, going beyond the mind, what we really mean is this, is to enter a finer dimension, a finer and finer and finer dimension as we traverse the vast area of the mind - there too, we are talking for the purpose of explanation, in time and space - as we traverse the various areas of the mind and reach the ultimate dimension, and reaching the ultimate dimension everything else becomes dimensionless and that is the absolute. And reaching the absolute, we would find everything else to be more real than real. What a process. The reality we know today does not remain as the reality then. Today something seems so real to you, because real to you but partially real because you are only using a part of yourself, limiting yourself to the five senses and that is real to you within the dimensions of the five senses. But having experienced far deeper and deeper and deeper layers of the mind, having captured the whole universe, the reality that is perceived then is not the reality perceived today. Now, two kinds of people, any Psychiatrist will tell you, can experience that - the realised man and the deluded man, which we call an insane person. So therefore when a person reaches that stage, that dimensionless stage, he is either mad in the present context of what man understands, or he is divinely mad. Give me Divine madness anytime. (Gururaj laughs). Okay. Yah, it’s about that time, gotta go for supper. I don't know why a person should eat really. Oh yes, of course, of course. Good. Fine. And then, we have just started this evening, we've just started a bit this evening - from tomorrow start doing some hard work. All teachers here and we can really go far, far deeper into various aspects of life, into various questions than what one would be able to do in a general Satsang. With teachers, we can go to further and further and deeper and deeper levels of things. So see you in the morning. You know I'd love to have a few words with all around me very informally, it would be so nice, so nice. END

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