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1. UK 78- 63 Gururaj. Good. What shall we speak about tonight? Questioner. I want to ask you an age-old question Gururaj. Age old? Questioner. You've taught us that if we suffer, we have brought it upon ourselves by actions in this or past lives. Why has the universal mind so ordered the animal kingdom that one half preys upon the other in order to live? Can the bird have brought about its own suffering in the jaws and claws of the cat? Why is nature so red in tooth and claw? Gururaj. Beautiful question. Yes. Now we have to bear in mind that the human being, the major outstanding feature of the human being is that he is a thinking being. The only thing that separates man from beast is his ability to think. And although he can think as an individual and has the ability to rationalise, he still is part and parcel of the universal mind as are the birds and beast. Good. In this process of evolution as that primal atom or the first individuation of the soul passes through these various processes of evolution which is progression from one species to another, from the mineral to the plant, to the animal, to man, it is only when he reaches the stage of man that the intellect, that consciousness starts functioning. And having been given this tool and misusing it because with the development of consciousness, discrimination takes place. Now discrimination is a very powerful tool. You can discriminate between two objects for good or bad. And it is by the misuse of the discriminatory powers that one gathers certain debts that one has to pay for. And that is what karma is all about. So whatever we sow, we reap. That's a very, very old saying, an age-old question and an age-old answer. Now why does this happen to beasts? Why does the vulture take within its claws a little lamb? Now if you ask the lamb does it suffer, what will it answer you? That is the age-old question. We with our minds knowing our suffering would think, would assume and even we would be presumptuous enough to think that the lamb is suffering. How do we know the lamb is suffering? How do we know that, that was not a part of the lamb's progress or being pushed in its evolutionary path to be in the clutches of the vulture for it to reach a higher stage? The question cannot be answered rationally because the lamb can't answer you. You can only apply rationality to something that could answer back. You could only ask me a question within the confines of rationality because I could reply rationally, but the poor little lamb, the bird cannot.

2. UK 78- 63 Now then the other question would be that why was one lamb caught up in the clutches and not the other lamb? Now beyond or before the human species, everything works within the limitations or confines or laws of the universal mind. In other words, there is a natural law functioning which has no impediments whatsoever. There are no obstacles in the path. If for example the lamb has to evolve to the stage of a dog, it will evolve to a dog and there is no stopping it because it is flowing with the laws of nature. Now when we look back on the animal Kingdom or the plant Kingdom, it is not ruled by individual will. The constituent and the main constituent of the individual will is the power to discriminate, the ability for the intellect to function. Before that everything functions automatically within the framework of certain laws. The grabbing of the one lamb is but the grabbing of all the lambs put together within that two dimensional world. When I call it two dimensional, I mean a dimension minus the intellect. Do you know everytime you kill a chicken, you're killing all the chickens that are on earth because you are doing something, you are changing or causing changes within the framework of the universal mind. You're causing certain changes within what Yung would call the unconscious mind. So in the one lamb being killed by the vulture, the vulture has actually killed, not in the physical sense of course, but in the universal mind sense, it has killed all the lambs existent. Now this would be very difficult to understand I know, I know, because the very destruction of one atom is the destruction of all the atoms that constitute the universe. But then again there is no destruction, there is just a transference of one energy from one form to another form. As far as suffering goes, who says the lamb suffers? It is not to be measured in our terms whatsoever of suffering or joy, because they are incapable, without the rational mind, these little creatures are incapable of having those feelings and feelings are necessarily involved with emotion. But when death approaches, but when death approaches to these animals, there is an instinct that is awakened within them, an instinct that will show them that their present form will become extinct. I was told by someone, he says 'Guruji, have you ever been to an abattoir'. I said 'Oh God, no'. When these little lambs or whatever go to the slaughter house, she tells me that if you watch their faces there is that fear that can be seen in those faces. Instinctively they feel that death is approaching. Now science will tell you that that very shock, that very feeling, that very instinctive feeling they have within themselves let loose within their bodies so many secretions, the adrenaline glands would start functioning. Various other secretions would be taking place and in that state that poor animal is killed for the consumption of man. Good. These secretions could be very, very toxic and when man eats that meat, when man eats that meat, he is consuming a lot of the toxins that has been secreted in that flesh. And whatever man eats must have an effect upon himself.

3. UK 78- 63 A person given to anger, great anger, I would definitely recommend to him that very gradually, stop eating meat. If you eat meat seven days a week, cut it down. Don't do it suddenly. It would affect your nervous system. Cut it down to three times a week. After cutting it down to three times a week, stop eating the heavier meats. Get on to lighter meats and so gradually get away from grosser foods which contain these various toxins, which in turn, by the very consumption of it gets into your blood stream and that blood is necessary for the functioning of your mind. So if you send toxic poisoned blood all the time to the mind, then the mind will naturally assume Tamas or darkness or inertia. And by continually bombarding the mind, the brain cells with these toxic elements, naturally you would be given over to lust and greed and all negative qualities which is quite natural. But that is besid es the point. We are talking of the animal. The animal because of its non-thinking ability does not feel the pain physically that man feels. If a house is burning down and say a person is burnt alive in that house. And we think 'Oh, he burnt alive and how much he suffered'. Do you know that the human mechanism is equipped with certain devices where the suffering that man has gone through is not as intense as the observer would think it is. Because the very shock, the very fumes of the smoke for example in this case will take him into unconsciousness and thereafter his body just burns and he is not conscious of his body burning. The same thing happens in a car accident, where the very impact or the very shock of it leads him to an unconsciousness and whatever else happens being beyond the conscious level, he does not suffer it. Now that happens to a human being also and moreso to the unthinking animal. Now this is as far as Darwin could go, survival of the fittest. The whole misinterpretation of Darwin’s theory by others and by Darwin himself was this that he applied the laws of survival of the fittest to human beings and because of that human beings started thinking as if they were animals, thinking animals. Fine. This survival of the fittest is fine up to the kingdom of the animal stage because the very preying upon another animal is not because of fun. It is because of a physical need. It is because of survival. It is because it has to eat. And it has to eat to survive. So the animal within the framework of the universal mind has no karmic attachments. It does not gather unto itself any karma. It is very natural for a big fish to eat a small fish. It is very natural for a bird to eat the worm. That is all within the framework of the laws of nature. But it is not within the framework of the laws when nature develops that very primal atom into the human kingdom. Now, I'm not by any means advocating vegetarianism. If you are a vegetarian, by all means be one. It’s good. It’s good. Pure foods are always better than foods that are not so pure. That is left entirely to your own will and discretion.’ But you will find one thing that as you start meditating and as the mind and the body becomes more and more finer, as it

4. UK 78- 63 gets more and more refined, your need for grosser foods will become less and less and less. That is the secret behind it, not to force yourself into something which is foreign. Not to force yourself into 'Oh Guruji, says you know I must not eat meat, so I'm going to stop now'. Nonsense, don't do that. No. No. That is, perhaps other systems do that. We don't advocate that. The entire change in one's lifestyle must be a natural phenomena. Things must proceed naturally with just a slight prompting from the mind. A slight hammering with the mind like a drop, water dripping, dripping, dripping and the very dripping and dripping and dripping of the water can create a big hole in a piece of granite. That is how it should work naturally and not by any force or compulsion. And as we meditate, we gain greater and greater strength so the drips become faster and faster to achieve the object. So going back to the animal kingdom, it is natural, it is natural for one beast to survive if he is fitter than the other little animal. There is nothing wrong in a tiger killing a deer. It is its nature to kill the deer. But it is very wrong for man to kill another man. It is not his nature. He is retrogressing and expressing the animalism that is within him. And I've said this many times before that man is what he is because of all these experiences gained. Do you know in the animal stage , if you had been a lion or tiger or whatever, how many other little creatures you have killed, plenty, to have survived, yes, yes, to reach the stage of a certain amount of evolution. When you were a primitive man once and we all have been primitive - no body has come to this stage of realisation or a certain stage of evolution without passing the intermediary stages - and we went hunting. Oh yes. And some of us were good hunters. Yeah. But that was because of necessity. When a animal, an animal kills another animal, it is because of necessity and not of greed. There lies the difference. And today you have so many murderers in this world, not physical murderers, but a brother will cut his brother's neck for twopence. That's killing. That's murdering. The concept of Ahimsa goes far, far, further back than just physical violence or physical killing. We even kill by thought. We do. Every hurt that we inflict upon another by thought, even by thought is a form of violence. How many times don't we sit down and feel sorry for ourselves and go into that state of self-pity. We are killing ourselves. We are perpetrating a violent act upon ourselves. And then people talk of positive thinking. These things are all negative. So, the difference between man and animal although we are all governed within the framework of the universal mind, the animal functions because of necessity, because of need. It has to eat for it to survive and survival is a natural instinct in everyone. To be able to survive. To be able to live. As we said the other day, a woman of eighty will still have the greed and her whole heart and soul is in her possessions although she knows one foot is already in the grave. But there is one thing a person just does not want to accept is the principle that I am going to die tomorrow. Every person thinks that he is going to live eternally. And that is why we act the way we act. That is why we act the way we act. That

5. UK 78- 63 is why the sense of accumulation comes into us. That is why the sense of hurting comes to us. That is why we try to preserve that ego self thinking that it is eternal for ourself within the concepts of our little framework which is forever changing, changing, changing. Just let us look at this little lifetime, twenty years, thirty years, forty years, forty-five, fifty, sixty, seventy-five. How much we have changed. How much we have changed. Look at ourselves, a photograph when we were a one year old little child and look at us today. Look at the change that has taken place. So much has changed. The mind has changed. The body has changed. Everything has changed but it is still the same person. So, even if we experience these changes in this very lifetime, how much more changes are there not in another lifetime perhaps. So man is continually going through all these various changes and yet he clings and clings and clings to this little existence as if this little existence is eternal. And all his actions are governed by this very clinging. As soon as he lets go from this clinging, then he will start living. So, you see the difference between man and animal. The animal does not cling because it has no desires. It has no desires and the only desire, that's not the right word for an animal, the instinct is for it to survive. And it will need food to survive and therefore it is within its nature to find that food. They don't deal in pounds, shilling and pence. They don't do bartering. They have to hunt for their food to be able to survive, which is a natural law. We don't hunt for our food. We try to get it in so many devious ways. We don't really work hard, do we? Some people imagine they do. We don't. We don't. You might come home terribly tired from the office and you'd say 'Oh, I've worked so hard today'. First class. You have worked very hard, you're tired but you are going to make up for that extra work in the next week that follows where you might go and spend five minutes extra in the restroom. Yes, and we say, we work so hard. We don't really. We don't. We don't. The human body is capable of certain things. It has its certain limitations. One day it might overdo something and then the next day the mechanism will compensate itself, will have compensation by lessening the speed. Yes. And then when we feel after coming home from work that we are so tired, you know what makes us really feel tired, not the work that we've put in but the very thought that I'm tired, I'm tired, I'm tired. That makes you tired. You see? Y ou see? You see? So, the birds and bees work harder than us. At every stage of his little life it has to work to survive. It has to hunt to survive. A poor tiger, cheetah, panther will die if it did not go hunting for its prey. It is its nature. It is within that framework where it has to survive on the principle of survival of the fittest. And it is just a pity Darwin did not remain i n that category, that species. (Gururaj laughs) Do you see? So when it comes to suffering, that suffering is because of our thinking ability and really speaking all the suffering we go through is amplified. We have a built-in microphone. It is not as

6. UK 78- 63 bad as you think really. It is not. Our minds amplify and exaggerate our suffering. And then later with continuous exaggeration of our suffering, we believe ourselves to be suffering. Really it is not so bad. A woman wants to put on a fifty pound dress to go to a party, but of course the month had been full of expenses and she had to use one she used last month, as if that was two millions years ago. Bought last month but to that woman she has to go the party tonight and they couldn’t get a new dress this month, so she has to put on the one of last month. And yet she'd be going to a party into a completely different set of circumstances, a different group of people who might have not have seen her in that dress. But she suffers within herself. 'Oh I haven't got a new dress to go to the party'. And as a matter of fact a woman never has anything to wear. Yes. I've been told this. I don't know. Is it true? (General laughter) I believe their wardrobes are always empty. So she suffers and before even going to the party she says 'Oh, this dress'. Her mind is not in the party. Her mind is in the dress. Then she suffers. What is suffering? Personal vanity. Why? Who is she going to please? Who is she going to show off to, that oh, all friends are going to say 'Oh, what a lovely dress she's got on’? But it would be quite nice and I'd like to go to a party one day where everyone tries to buy a new dress and they all turn out to be the same thing. That is one experience I've never had. It would really be fun. I would just sit back and laugh. (General laughter) Yes. Because the more unusual you try to become, the more usual it is. Yes. It always happens. For example if you are a Novelist and you write a novel and you try to use a name that which is uncommon. Now you think by not using a common name, you know it might not be associated with someone else, so you use an uncommon name and the very use of the uncommon name would be, the effect, the result would be that you would come across someone that has that uncommon name. So a sensible novelist normally sticks to John or James or Robert or Walter or you know. (Gururaj laughs) You see. So to get back to suffering. Man suffers because his mind exaggerates his suffering. A man is used to eating for example, say he is wealthy, having a seven course dinner but just to give him one day a five course dinner and the whole world has toppled down for him. So unnecessary. So unnecessary. Every bit of suffering we have, remember always that our mind has amplified it and exaggerated it. Now the very instrument of discrimination, of rationalisation has been put to wrong use. We think we use logic but it is actually illogical logic. Yes. That is what we use. When it comes to animals, they are within a natural flow and they flow according to their needs. They don't worry about putting on a new dress for the party. They don't need it. Their needs are within the laws of nature. Man has created his needs outside the laws of nature thereby creating friction and friction is suffering. You see how simple it is. So, when the vulture picks up the lamb, it is not a suffering for the lamb in our sense of the term, in our interpretation. That is part and parcel of the universal game within the framework of that species. But it is not part of the universal game when man reverts to

7. UK 78- 63 animalism. Man must be man and lead himself to the God-man stage and not to the animal stage. So the age-old question has a new answer. It ceases to be age old now. Let each species live according to its nature. That is the answer. Okay. Next. Questioner. Guruji, I think you've just answered the question I had. (Gururaj laughs). For a long time, months, I've been hammering at one problem and that's, that the greed of which I spoke, I've seen that that's due to anxiety, which is due to insecurity. And I've really felt like a dog that's running round and round hanging on to his own tail and what I've been trying to see is how to let go of the tail and just to be here and now. Gururaj. Cut off the tail. (Gururaj laughs) Questioner.(Cont’d) That may be it and how? Gururaj. Beautiful. Beautiful. Oh Sybil, you're a darling (Gururaj laughs). That too is a very misused word. I'll tell y ou why. It’s a misused word, yes darling, no darling, okay darling, goodbye darling, will you sit down darling, stand up darling, sorry darling. Rubbish. (General laughter) You know why it is rubbish because people use words without meaning them. That is why it is rubbish. Whenever you call your beloved, darling - what does the word mean by the way? Little dear. Ah dear. Small dear. Lovely. Good. Fine. You see many people did not even know the meaning, I'm trying to demonstrate that. When we use words, we use them with feeling. When you call someone sweetheart, darling, beloved, your heart must flow over in those words, so that it assumes a force a power which is truth. Words are the greatest conveyors of your entirety. When I call someone my beloved John, my beloved Mariana, or my beloved Jean or whoever, there is force in those words, because in that very word, beloved, I have put my entire existence in that word. Therefore it hits home. It strikes home. And it is not using words for the sake of words. So this yes darling, no darling. No, no, no. Don't use a word if you don't feel it. Words are there to express thoughts, feelings, emotions, ourselves and if they are used with that power, with that force then they become effective. And the effectiveness of those words are so powerful that it changes the whole vibration. You come home from work, the house might seem gloomy and in those very words, from the front door, 'Yuh Huh', something like that, 'I'm home' (Gururaj laughs) - oh we're having a lot of fun. That very 'Yuh Huh' you know must contain

8. UK 78- 63 that force that you really are at home, that you really wanted to be at home. You really wanted to be with your wife and children and even in the car or the train, your thoughts had reached home even before you did physically. So that 'Yuh Huh' will be really answered back. That lovely hug and kiss. Yes. That's togetherness. That's how a family becomes stronger in that togetherness, leading to that beautiful oneness. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Such families don't even need outside entertainment. They don't need to go to the Cinema or the Theatre. Okay, now and then diversions are necessary. Because the mind does get overweighed sometimes. We overweigh it ourselves of course. But that's besides the point. It does require some bit of release and some outgoing which is healthy. As a release mechanism it is very healthy. But that whole idea of reaching home where every word that is said, even a meaningless word like 'Yuh Huh' must carry that force, so that it is felt by the hearer, by the one that hears. And the feeling that will well up in the heart of the little wife, busy at the kitchen stove, will just well up and say "Ah, he's home". (Gururaj laughs) Practical living that's what I'm trying to talk about, practical honest, sincere, down to earth living not couched in beautiful 'Yes darling, no darling' business. That's real feeling. That is what is required. Fine. Now the dog chasing its tail could we have the question again. I got a bit lost. (Gururaj laughs). Questioner. Well, what I was saying was that some of the greed of which I was talking about the other day Gururaj. is anxiety and insecurity Questioner.(Cont’d) That's right, that's right. And I felt like a dog running after, holding on to its own tail going round and round. Gururaj. And how to let go of the tail? Yes. Questioner.(Cont’d) So how do we let go of it, how can one be here and now? But you did say living every day as though it was your last and I think that was my answer. Gururaj. Yes, thank you for the answer. (Gururaj laughs) She is a darling. Yes. That is how life goes on, doesn't it really. The dog chasing its own tail. A merry- go -round and we are moving all the time but not moving from one place to the other. Just moving there like the merry- go -round and we think we are moving going so fast and really moving from place to place, to higher and higher planes but many of us are stagnating and just moving around in circles. How to move away

9. UK 78- 63 from that circle, which most times is a vicious circle? You see how beautiful it is why they apply the word viciousness to circles. And yet everything is a circle. It could be a very unvicious circle because the entire universe is nothing but a circle. It functions in a circular manner which ............ but we can go from lower circle to a higher circle. We were in the cycle of the mineral kingdom and as that atom evolved it came into the plant kingdom. And as that evolved from that circle the animal kingdom, then the man kingdom forever, forever in a circle. The idea is not to escape from the circle but the idea is to go beyond the present circle to a higher circle. And proceeding to a higher circle, you will find it becomes a lighter circle, a more joyous circle, greater intensity, greater luminosity, greater lightness. So, what we are trying to do is getting out of the present groove. I don't know if I told you the story of the villages in India. Some of the backward villages there have the sand roads and with the bullock carts, the bullock carts forever using those sand roads form these grooves. Now the cart and the driver wanting to proceed from one place to the other, he just needs to put his cart in the groove and he can go to sleep. Because the cart will just keep on running in those grooves and this poor bullock is just pulling it along and the driver can sleep. Ah but what is needed there that someone must put a stone in the groove so when the cart comes along and the wheel knocks against the stone and the cart shakes, the driver wakes up. And that happens to us in our daily lives, but we interpret it to be suffering. That lazy driver that was asleep because he was rudely awakened by the stone in the groove, thinks he has suffered because he has lost his sleep. First of all it was not his business driving the bullock cart to fall asleep. He should be awake. So all the happenings we find in our daily living which does not seem to be supportive to what we are doing supportive to our sleep, we call it suffering. And yet it is this very, very suffering that is awakening us to life, quickening life. So, you see how suffering can be viewed. You see how this very chasing, the dog chasing the tail can be viewed. And yet the time comes when the dog gets tired. The dog gets tired and it lies down and it stops chasing. That tiredness is not suffering. That tiredness is not exhaustion. That tiredness must be interpreted as relaxation. Not exhaustion. Now everything we do, everything we do in life is aimed more at exhaustion instead of relaxation. So a man drinks. He drinks not to relax, but he drinks to exhaust himself. A man eats, not for the purpose of nourishment, well nourishment is there, but he exhausts himself in his eating. Just a couple of forkfuls more, it’s so tasty. He exhausts himself. Even in the sphere of love making, people don't really make love for relaxation. They make love for exhaustion. Yes. Yes. How much we have to learn in this life? Cor Blimey. So like that, like that when we can through our meditational practices find that bit of relaxation, when in that calmness, in that relaxation we can become more reflective and that reflectiveness can give you the answer. And the

10. UK 78- 63 answer will be this, that I cannot destroy the cycle but I can move upward from the lower cycle to a higher cycle and a higher one still, until the ultimate cycle is reached where there remains no cycle anymore. All those steps were necessary to reach the roof and if we view life as such, you'll find that we will take the sting out of suffering. We will develop the sense of non-attachment where we will stop exaggerating our sufferings. Then that fifty pound dress for the party will not assume any more importance. It is you at the party, your personality, your niceness, your ability to mix. It is you yourself that adds to the party and not your dress. So that suffering is gone. There's no suffering it becomes a joy that how you became one with the people in the party. What a great joy. What a lovely togetherness. It wasn't the dress. The dress could have stood in the way. It could have stood in the way. You would be so careful that you don't get a drop of lemonade on it. Lemonade, that's what they drink at parties, (General laughter) I mean, I believe that, lemonade, ginger ale, ginger beer and things like that. Oh yes. Soda water, that's good. Yeah. So you see, you take the sting out of suffering by ceasing to exaggerate it. When we cease to exaggerate the suffering, we come to the level of what the suffering really is. When we come and recognise what it really is all about, our mind is capable of analysing it. Therefore we have the power of discrimination. And once we dissect it, once we dissect the problem, you will find that the problem in ninety-nine, point nine, nine, nine and add on as many nines as you like, is baseless. The problem in reality has no basis, but our minds have padded it, has put a basis to it. For really speaking there are no problems. There are only those stones in the path that wakes us up so that we could drive our carts and so that the bullock will not be led off on to another bypass, another groove. We need to be alert, awake to evaluate our lives so that it moves more and more smoothly. So we take away the exaggeration. Fine. We come to the real suffering, what it is. My specks are full of dust. I've put them on and I don't see well. Right. Now I'll keep on putting them on and I don't see well and then I'll say 'Oh, I'm getting blind'. Oh. But if I only view them 'Oh, there's dust, I'll use my hanky and wipe them'. Fine. The exaggeration is gone. Then like that we get to the root of the problem and when we get to the root of the problem there is really nothing much to the problem. Because all problems can be solved here and now. I speak about these problems very, very specifically tonight and I have a reason for that. I know and I can feel the problems weighing in the minds and hearts of many people here tonight. There is no problem. They are just all awakeners and use them as such. Why struggle opening the coolring bottle with the doorknob when you have a bottle opener? Use the right tool, the tool of discrimination, the tool of proper evaluation. Facing the thing as it really is and not by the exaggeration of our cunning little mind. And you see how joyous we feel, how happy we feel. For there are so many, many blessings.

11. UK 78- 63 Everything, everything in this world is a blessing. And we use a common saying 'Oh, what a blessing in disguise'. Blessings don't come in disguises. They come openly. We that are blindfolded, we are disguising the blessings which come so, so openly. Yeah. Shall we carry on now? What is the time? I've got to use specks. Okay. That's about an hour and a half gone. END

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