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1. UK 79- 37 Gururaj. I’ll speak for five or ten minutes on it and within an hour or an hour and a half, we could get through quite a number. Your wish is my command. Let’s start. Questioner. Guruji, throughout history, spiritual movements have become corrupted by wealth and power, how can BMS avoid this fate in the future? Gururaj. You know I didn’t get a word - did you? Questioner. (cont'd). I’ll do it slowly this time. Voice. I can’t do it without someone speaking unfortunately. Can you just keep speaking? Voice. Okay. Testing. Testing. One, two. Gururaj. Mary had a little lamb. Voice. I can’t hear - this is my problem. Voice. One, two, three, four. Mary had a little lamb; its feet were white as snow Gururaj. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Questioner. Throughout history, spiritual movements have become corrupted by wealth and power, how can BMS avoid this fate in the future? Gururaj. Throughout history? Voice. Spiritual movements have become corrupted by wealth and power. Gururaj. Yes, Spiritual movements have been corrupted by wealth and power and how does BMS fit into this picture? Well BMS or all the organisations under IFSU are totally anti-wealth and power and the example of that is set by the

2. UK 79- 37 Leader of the movement who is humbler than the humblest, I hope and low as the ground. So there’s no question of power. Who wants power when we are those that want to become one with the powerful, the Almighty. And to become one with the Almighty, one does need that measure of surrender, where the personal power is lost in the universal power. Good. Now, power is always associated with money. Good. Now you find a lot of movements that accumulate billions of dollars and I know a few of them, and what has happened to those movements that, as you have said they have become very corrupted. For firstly, we must not have large bank balances. It’s always good to be in the red. Yes. Because then we will work to meet the commitment. But there are necessities, like for example building an Ashram here in England or buying one, where all the meditators at any time could go for a weekend’s retreat, go through certain practices. And if we have an Ashram here in England for example, I would be spending at least three, four months a year here and everyone, I would be accessible to everyone who would wish to come over for the weekend or during the week. So for such purposes, funds are required because it would be of benefit to our meditators. Now, this has nothing to do with the power of the ego or the power of the money, it is a necessity which if we work hard enough we can fulfil. Then there is another point, I want nothing in my name. Whatever Ashram or property that is required in England must belong to the BMS. The people have put it up and it will belong to the people. So, from the leadership where total power, any kind of power is denied, that should be the example for all the people of BMS. Let others do what they want to do. We follow our goodly, Godly, humble path throughout life, to meet our Maker, for that is the only way. Right. Next. Questioner. Guruji, would you speak to us further on the nature of evil? You have said that good and evil are relative and that the only reality is ‘Isness’. Is evil simply a by-product of human life on earth or are there also powers of evil as personified for instance by Satan in Christian mythology? Gururaj. Now that question, please take it over, I would like to speak an hour on that. May I have your permission for tonight and go into that, because that’s a very important question. The entire Theologies of the world revert around that question and I feel that I would not be doing you any justice if I just do it in ten, fifteen minutes. It’s a subject in itself. I could write a book on that. So, that will be our question for tonight. Okay. Thank you. Next.

3. UK 79- 37 Questioner. Guruji, I have read that a Spiritual Healer takes the Karma of the sick person. Can you please explain this to us? Gururaj. Good. A Spiritual Leader does not take the karma of a sick person or an ill person. He might be ill in mind or body, he does not take the karma. If the Spiritual Leader or Master takes over the karma, this has been a misconception, a misconception not by the teacher that taught this, but by the later interpreters. What the Spiritual Master does is that through the spiritual force he balances the energies in the person. Now all illnesses in life is due to one factor that the three aspects of man body, mind and spirit are not functioning in harmony and when they do not function in harmony it would manifest itself as a mental illness or a physical illness. So what the Spiritual Teacher does, is, he by imparting or transmitting a spiritual force, he balances the energies in the person so the person feels better. Now the recipient also has to have some qualities as I said in a previous talk, that he must have an open mind and by having an open mind, he makes himself conducive to receive those energies whereby the cure is expedited. A doctor cannot cure you for example. He only gives you medicines to help bring about the cure. In other words, it’s a remedy that he gives, but not a cure. Likewise a Spiritual Teacher is also a doctor. He is a doctor of the soul and by instilling, imparting, transmitting certain energies to the person, he sets into motion certain chakras or the subtle body, so that all which is wrong can be righted. Now if the Spiritual Teacher takes upon himself the sufferings of people, he would be interfering with the laws of karma. For whatever you have sown, you must reap. He cannot interfere with the laws of karma. What he can do is this, that if a child has been studying the whole year through and he needs a forty percent pass mark, and at the time of examination, due to some circumstances, Mummy and Daddy might have been in a whack of a quarrel at home in the morning, the child is upset and does not do well in the exam and gets thirty eight percent instead of forty, his pass mark. So the Spiritual Teacher there just gives him a little push, as the ordinary school teacher would, because the school teacher knows that the child has been doing so well during the year and there must have been some psychological reason, some kind of nervousness perhaps, whereby the child has not made the grade. So a little push is given. But that little push that is given, does not mean that the karma of the person has been taken away. For every person is a unique entity, a totality unto himself. And the day when he accepts responsibility for himself and accepts that this is my weakness and I am responsible for it, from that day, his progress starts. And not knowing in which direction to turn, the person would seek out a certain kind of teaching which is most conducive to his mind, or which his mind could understand. And if he follows that one-pointedly, if he follows the path, he would reach his goal. But then by following the path as taught by his teacher one-pointedly, he draws upon himself the grace. And when grace is drawn upon oneself,

4. UK 79- 37 the fruits of the karma or the reward, or the punishment becomes more sweeter. It does not hurt so much. In other words, it’s not cash on demand; you pay it off on the instalment plan. You see. That is what happens. So, therefore people on the spiritual path, are people who will be paying off their karmas, who will be paying off their karmas, in a manner which will not be hurtful to them. The suffering becomes lightened. The burden becomes less and less and unnoticeably so. So those are the rewards of following a spiritual path, where the goal is joyous and the path to the goal also becomes joyous. No great calamities occur. And if calamities do occur, the person on the spiritual path, gaining a certain measure of integration within himself, would be able to bear it and face it with greater courage, so that the impact of it is not felt so hardly. It becomes easy. It is not too difficult. That is the advantage of gaining that mental composure through spiritual practices, which make things easier for us in life. For what do you know of your past life? And what do you know of a future life? You might even deny a future life or a past life. Your concern is with this life. Let the laws of nature and the laws of evolution take care of what life is going to be in the future. We are concerned with this life, and how we can make this life more smoother, more happier, more harmonious to ourselves and others. And that is the true spiritual path and not what’s going to happen in three or four lifetimes hence, as some movements promise. Our teachings are based here and now, how much a better man am I. Am I going to leave this world a better place than I have entered it? You see how sweet and beautiful this is and therefore it is so easy. Because we are thinking of here and now today. How do I behave with my neighbour? How have I behaved with my neighbour today? What kinds of thoughts has passed through my mind today? Now if you use this analogy before the story that if your mind has five seconds of negative thoughts, try consciously for the next six seconds to fill the mind with positive thoughts. You have one in the credit balance. The next ten seconds go by with a negative thought, let the next twelve be with positive. Three in the credit balance. And like that when you go to bed, you’ll have the most finest sleep, for you’d feel that it has been a good day. How kind have I been? How compassionate have I been? How helpful have I been? Was there anything good I did today? Or was my mind just filled with hateful thoughts all the time? Do you see? So now these credit balances of every day multiplied by three hundred and sixty five days, multiply that again by three score years and ten perhaps, and you have definitely made yourself a better person. And making yourself a better person, you’ve made the society which you live in a better society because it is the units that compose the Society and not the Society which composes the units. So, so that is what we want. That’s life, that’s life. Who says there is going to be another life? Although of course all the laws and all the discoveries by th e Yogis, - I tell you this of personal experiences, that there have been past lives, but you have to take my word for it. Don’t

5. UK 79- 37 take my word. Just think of this life. You see. And that is how we progress. And that makes life smoother. Okay. Good. Next. Questioner. Guruji, does intellectual or scholastic attainment in any field, but in particular in the field of science and technology, act as an impediment to our spiritual advancement? Gururaj. Intellectual and? Questioner. Shall I read it again? Does intellectual or scholastic Gururaj. Oh scholastic, Questioner. (cont'd.) in any field but in particular in the field of science and technology act as an impediment to our spiritual advancement? Gururaj. I got it. No (General laughter) and yes. There has to be a happy balance between religion and science. Science plays its part to a certain level, and after all what is science doing today? What is technology doing today? It is only confirming that which has been said before. The Mystics had direct perception. For example, if you read the Ramayana which was supposed to have been composed nine thousand years ago, or just at the end of the Atlantean era, you will find descriptions of nuclear energy. You will find descriptions of jet planes and various kinds of the things which science has just discovered today. So what science is doing which is a wonderful and a great contribution to modern society, is that they are verifying and putting it in a tangible form, through the intellect and rationalisation and with all the scholastic acquisitions they have made, they are just but putting to the world in the modern idiom of today, that which has been discovered thousands and thousands of years ago. Now this is very necessary because Mysticism is not the language for modern man. So, in Mysticism, if that is interpreted according to the language of today, people will understand it better. But yet the fact remains that science can only reach, all kinds of scholastic achievements or technology has its limits, and it is limited by the finite mind. Now, there will come a time on this planet earth where a greater evolution will take place on the mental level, where minds will be able to think far deeper. Where we are now using just ten percent of the mind which we call the conscious mind, we will start using fifteen percent and twenty percent. And even if the day comes when we use the hundred percent, the totality

6. UK 79- 37 of the mind, we will still not by scientific means discover the essence of things. Then the jump, the leap into the unknown will have to be taken to discover the essence of things. For if the day should come when science can prove in a test tube the existence of Divinity, then Divinity shall cease to exist. So science has its role and Mysticism has its role to play as well. So where science ends, Mysticism begins. Now, when you talk of Scholastic achievements, Sanskritists call it Jnana Yoga, the Yoga of analysis, where you keep on rejecting. You find an answer to a question and then you come to the realisation, ‘Not this, not this, Netti, Netti’. And then more questions arise and as you answer them you could never feel satisfied, because it is the nature of the mind not ever to be satisfied. It is the nature of the mind not ever to be satisfied because the mind is forever changing, changing, changing and wherever there is change, there is motion. While satisfaction and peace and realisation comes in stillness and not in motion. So science with its advanced technology plays a great part in modern affairs, but it should not be one- sided. What science and technology does, is they concentrate on the expansion of the mind, but not of the heart. With the various inventions of today, for example the neutron bomb, where millions of people can be killed and yet the empty shells of buildings would remain. And apart from that, they’re many countries that have other inventions that are never publicised, that could destroy this entire planet with everything on it in a flash. And that destruction could be so powerful that it would affect the entire solar system. The entire solar system if affected, will affect our galaxy and like that throwing a pebble in the pond the ripples will go on and on, and on with such great effect to this entire universe. We talk of UFO’s for example, and of course scientists want to deny it and they have reasons to deny this. There’s a lot of knowledge being suppressed by Governments of the world so that people do not get into a state of panic. What those people are really trying to do is exactly what I am trying to do. They are trying to communicate. They know the trend that is taking place in the world today, a trend towards destruction, because man has become very mind orientated, which is an imbalance. So what we are trying, they are communicating this, that stop these things because if your planet is destroyed it will affect us as well. It will affect other planetary bodies. Now there is, at the turn of the century, there is a possibility of a great catastrophe and I’ve spoken about this and this can be averted, if man’s hearts can be developed or opened. So, if the mind is extremely developed and the heart is developed too, then the love that flows from the heart will not allow the mind to use its discoveries in a destructive manner, but in a constructive manner. And that is what BMS or IFSU teaches. Develop the mind by all means; develop that vast awareness, but first to appreciate the love that wells up in the heart and then everything else. For if you have that tool of love, you can not do wrong. If the heart is sufficiently opened, you cannot commit a wrong act, for everything

7. UK 79- 37 you do will be empowered by that love. So science plays its part, science is a necessity. The world today might be in a greater chaos, if it was not for science. For example Savita could not phone me to South Africa and say such and such a meditator is leaving for some country tomorrow and we’ve got to initiate this person, could you give me his or her techniques on the phone. You see. So science must be used, technology must be used for good and not for destructive purposes. So, there is a lovely poem in the Indian language, it says ‘Ja na hay por naheee ..............’ Now this I won’t translate because you have all understood it. (General laughter). It simply is this, where the moon cannot reach, the poet can reach with his mind, with his imagination. You see if the moon shines as a big boulder there, you’ll still have the shade on this side, but the poet’s mind can go on top of the boulder, under the boulder and on every side, he embraces it. But where the poet cannot reach, there reaches the man of experience of love, because for him, he does not look around and above and down the stone, but he looks into the stone, into the boulder. You see, so how important it is to develop that ability, that perception that requires no logic. But what do people practise nowadays, and I could tell you this from experience, because my wife is very good at it, illogical logic. So we do need that expansion and if this is well married to science, life could become very pleasant. If it was not for scientific inventions, you would have had to start from your home in London or wherever or from Eastbourne, you would have had to start two weeks ago on the donkey cart, but it took you a few hours to reach here. So that is well used. The aeroplane had been so well used to bring me here and the aeroplane can also be used to drop bombs on innocent people. How things are used that is the criteria. And the person that develops on the Spiritual path will always use things in the right way. I had a Conference on my last trip here, here on the Wrekin Trust, Mystics and Scientists and then this was more or less the topic, of course I went into very deep details as one of the speakers on the panel. So both has its importance, absolutely. Thank you. Next. Questioner. Guruji, are all the Avatars, who have manifested throughout the ages, the same individual soul reincarnate or are they manifestations of different individual souls, who have reached the same level of evolution or awareness? Gururaj. Are all the, - what was the first key word? Questioner. Avatars

8. UK 79- 37 Gururaj. Are all the Avatars? Questioner. (cont'd). who have manifested throughout the ages the same soul or are they different souls? Gururaj. Are they the same soul or are they different soul? Ah, beautiful question. Yes, I tell you why I like that question so much. Someone wrote on his Progress Sheet that, ‘I am a confirmed Christian’. I say, ‘God bless you’. ‘But in my religion’, this person says that, ‘My religion says that no one can be saved except through Jesus Christ’. I say yes, that is true. There is no salvation on earth except through Christ. But what do we mean by Christ? I do not talk of the man called Jesus; I talk of that which is called Christ, Christ consciousness. So, to say that you can only reach Divinity through Christ, that is very true. There is a difference in terminology, for Buddha consciousness, Christ consciousness, Krishna consciousness means but the same. They mean the same. Different words are used because of different cultures. But basically what we are referring to, is pure consciousness which has been embodied to teach the world. So the Bible is entirely true in saying that ‘No man goes to the Father except through me’. Krishna says the same thing in the Gita, ‘Come unto me’. And in all other major religions, the same thing is said, but we have to understand it in the proper sense, that what is meant is the consciousness every man has to reach, before he can merge away in total Divinity. And wha t we are doing in our spiritual practices is only but a preparation, a cleansing preparation where we reach that state, that state of consciousness and then from there, we reach Divinity. So, our teachings are not in conflict with any religion whatsoever, for all that has been taught is true. What went wrong is the interpretation. And these interpretations were not done perhaps inadvertently, these misinterpretations rather. There is a plan behind it because every religion wanted to become organised and they set down laws and rules so that they could organise and grow that this is what you believe and nothing else. There’s nothing in the world that has done more harm than religion, and there’s nothing in the world that has done more good than religion. The greatest wars and the greatest amount of bloodshed had been under the name of religion. We could quote the examples in Islam and the Crusaders and the Holy Wars of the Hindus, the wars of Kurukshetra, where brother killed brother. You see so much harm has been done. And the greatest harm it has done, is, it has closed up man’s mind, closed it not in a positive way, but in a negative way. It has stopped him from having an open mind. Many of the religions has made man dogmatic, where you are just going through on the grooved path and there are blinkers on the eyes. And we just keep on following that. Today that was good for a certain time, as times change, teachings do not change ever. Eternal truths remain eternal, but they must be given out or portrayed, or taught in a way which is conducive to the times.

9. UK 79- 37 Therefore in our movement, what we try and do is find the basis behind all theologies. We find the basic truths that underlie all these representations and misrepresentations, interpretations and misinterpretations. And this gives us an open mind, where we are allowed to think, we are allowed to accept, we are allowed to reject. And that is what progress is all about. If you reject a certain thought, I would not say do not reject, I say yes go on rejecting, rejecting, rejecting until you reach the stage of accepting. It is like two people moving in opposite directions, the rejector and the acceptor. And i f they move in opposite directions around this globe, they will meet together face to face on the other side. And yet they started moving in the opposite direction. That is open-mindedness and that is what we want. Now to come to the Avatar, that the young lady asked about, it is this consciousness that is forever there. Krishna is alive. Christ is alive. Buddha is alive. Mahavir, Moses is alive. That purity of consciousness has never died. It is eternal. But what happens is this, that from time to time when the human impulse is needed, that consciousness assumes a form. That consciousness becomes embodied so that it could teach and show. What would such a man teach? Eternal truths. What would he show? The same way in modern terms. What would he show? The meaning of life and the purpose of it. So the eternal truths remain the same. They are never altered. You cannot alter them. Water cannot run up a mountain, it has to flow down a mountain. Certain laws of nature are there that constitute this universe and this universe functions according to those laws of nature. But when imbalances occur and where through unnatural means you try and pump the water up the hill and not allow it to flow down the hill, then the Avatar manifests himself in human form. For who could touch the minds and hearts of men but another man, the Son of Man. That is the Avatar, that is the incarnation because he is eternal, forever eternal. You might find him to live for thirty-three years, or seventy-three years or eighty-two years. That to him is just a moment. He just goes on and on and on. For here he spends a flicker of a second. Gururaj. ..... on my last trip - what was it, at High Leigh? Voice. Twenty-nine. Gururaj. Tape twenty-nine at High Leigh, I would like you to listen to that. You’ll love hearing that, where I spoke about ‘What Purpose the Masters Serve’. Good. Next. Don’t be shy. I’m your friend. You’re not shy of a friend or else if you don’t feel like walking, we can send the mike to you?

10. UK 79- 37 Questioner. I have two questions Guruji; you can decide which one you want to answer. The first one is, the practices you select for us are on a mental level and are extremely powerful and you tell us that they represent a total balance to suit our needs and are sufficient in themselves to lead us to enlightenment. Can we increase our rate of growth by practising Hatha Yoga, or any other physical system of development? That’s the first question. The other one is, if an action is performed with the best intentions in mind and in total innocence, but yet results in mental, physical injury, perhaps resulting in even death being done to a person, will the action by karmically binding to the perpetrator? And to qualify that, when an action is performed with the same idea in mind such as politically motivated act or the action on the part of the actor if he believes he is right, even though it might be an act of terrorism, is that binding to the actor? Gururaj. Good. Good. Now the first question first. Logical is here, its logic. Yes. The practices given to an individual person are sufficient unto themselves for the moment. And when they pass a particular standard then practices are given. But practices given are so powerful that you can carry on quite a few years with it. Perhaps a whole lifetime and a few more lifetimes perhaps. For when you are ready for the next practice, it will come to you in a flash. It will be given to you. And that is why I like to read the Progress Forms and I study them very carefully. I was busy with them last night unt il about this morning about half past four, something like that. Yes. Yeah. They were very interesting to me. And that is why also I encourage people to write of their experiences and their problems and things like that. Because subtle energies can be released to help those in need. And who is a friend; he is one who is there when one is in need. Good. Now when it comes to Hatha Yoga, I would encourage that, not as an end and aim in itself, but it is very beneficial to one’s body. Ordinary physical exercises are good as well but they tend to exercise the outer muscles of the body, while the practices of Hatha Yoga tend to exercise the inner organs of the body. So it is very valuable for those with an inclination to do Hatha Yoga. It’s very good. So that can be pursued. The teacher, I do not even need to write on the Forms. If a person is practising Hatha Yoga, he tells the teacher and the teacher says carry on with it, because it is not in conflict whatsoever with our practices. Good. The second question was, if a person commits an act in innocence, commits an act inadvertently, which might result in a calamity, is he karmically bound? He is not karmically bound, not at all. Now, if you walk, if I walk down this passage here and there might be little insects or ants crawling on this passage and I don’t see them and I tramp on them and the poor creatures get killed, there is a certain, although not karmically binding, but there is a certain vibratory factor of destruction to which I am associated. Good. If I spend half an hour in a perfume factory, I will come out smelling like perfume. If I spend half an hour in a dirt factory, I will come out smelling like dirt. Likewise, if I perform an action although

11. UK 79- 37 perhaps it is totally innocent and unknowingly, yet they are certain vibratory factors that will cling to me, although not karmically binding, so I have to take a bath. So in the spiritual sense what kind of bath do we take? And that is very difficult and yet so easy. I have had one practice all my life, that not a single month goes by when I don’t send something to charity to offset that which I had inadvertently done. And that is how the whole system of tithing came about. Its true essence was that, where actions are performed unknowingly and yet that tithing, doing charity in other words, is the spiritual bath that one takes. But then of course the churches and temples misused all this. For religious organisations are the wealthiest in the world. There are some religious organisations that are the world’s biggest landowners. Instead of what has come in and re-harvesting it to the people and helping the people, they build up fortunes. I believe there are places in Rome and elsewhere, where there is more wealth in those little cities or compounds or complexes than the entire wealth in the whole of Italy. You see that’s also misuse. So, I personally have the practice of whatever I earn, when I used to earn, I send a bit away to some charity, some Orphanage, Blind Society, Deaf and Dumb Society or there are hundreds of charities. In South Africa for example, we have the School Feeding Scheme which was started by private people and I was one of the people involved in it. These poor people that live under the bread-line, below the bread-line and children come hungry to school, so at least they could have a slice of bread, a glass of milk, a piece of cheese. So like that we send away, we take the spiritual bath for things that we don’t even know we have committed. It is very beautiful, because although we don’t know we have committed some destructive act, the very act of giving is uplifting and unfolding in itself. So that is my way of doing things. END

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