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1. UK 80- 22 Gururaj. What shall we talk about this morning? Questioner. Guruji, could you explain to us the difference between 'Chit' consciousness and 'Sat' being and how we could recognise this in our daily life? Gururaj. Firstly there is no separation ever in 'Sat' and ‘Chit’, 'Chit' means mind stuff, 'Sat' means truth or existence bu t with that goes another factor called Ananda which is bliss, so these three factors are in the cosmos for ever intertwined, Satchitananda, existence, bliss and mind stuff. Now, no reconciliation is required between the three because one cannot exist without the other, for existence implies life or life force and life force by its very nature is bliss. And bliss and life force put together constitute existence. Now to be able to define Satchitananda, which are the qualities of the Personal God, one has to define what the Personal God is. So when we talk of a reconciliation in our daily lives, what it really means is that how can we reconcile ourself with God? That is the gist of the question. Fine. Now do we really need to reconcile ourself with God? Aren't we the living presence of Him where reconciliation is not necessary? But what is necessary is the cognition of the togetherness we have with that which is Divine. Now how does one bring this to the conscious level? And how completely could it be brought to the conscious level? Is the sun bothering you? The curtains can be pulled a bit. No. You alright? You see this is what we do every day, we blot out the light. Yes, so therefore blotting out the light of Satchitananda, we do not allow it to come to our consciousness. Good. Now, we all know that the consciousness of which we are aware forms a very small part of Chitta or mind stuff, I' would rather stick to the English equivalent of the Sanskrit words because Sanskrit words could become confusing to some. Now the mind stuff is so vast, as vast as the entire universe and we only partake a few drops of that vast ocean. Now how to contain the entirety of the ocean in those few drops, in other words, how to bring about the entirety of consciousness within the limitations of our minds? Is this possible or not? I would say it is possible. It is possible in the sense of appreciation only, where by knowing one piece of clay you know all the clay in the universe. By having in your palms, a little bit of that water of the ocean, you know the quality of the entire ocean. And what do we do with the rest? So here when the little mind that we are conscious of, appreciates this vastness then it goads us on to know the vastness. So with spiritual practices, we awaken the so-called dormant section of Chitta or mind stuff. And as we go to the deeper levels of the mind then greater and greater awareness develops and not necessarily that you are conscious of it but you will become more appreciative of it. To appreciate something and to really be conscious of it are two different things, because the consciousness applies a certain degree or a great amount rather of practicality, where the entire consciousness is portrayed in every action or thought that we are capable of. So here, when the deeper layers of the

2. UK 80- 22 mind are awakened through spiritual practices, we bring to the fore, we bring to the fore the essence of the so-called dormant mind into the conscious mind. You might not be an artist but you can appreciate art. So as far as the conscious mind is concerned, you will appreciate only the glory of God and in that appreciation there will be certain experiences, certain cognitions but those cognitions would be limited. So as the appreciation in creases, the other counterparts of the mind, which is existence, will also be appreciated and the working mind that we use in discrimination, analysis rationalisations, will also feel joy and bliss. Fine, so, now there is a way where the conscious mind can extend itself. It will extend itself in developing greater faculties, of which it was not aware of previously. And yet all this will be done on the relative plane of existence but the whole purpose of developing awareness or a vaster awareness, and man is capable of appreciating and knowing, that's the word here, the entirety of all creation of all manifestation, but that is not the work of the conscious mind only. So when these subtler layers are awakened then they function in awareness and consciousness. So the deeper we go in the layers of the mind, the purer the consciousness becomes and by the word purer, it does not mean good or bad thoughts. It is something beyond that. It is a sense that one develops of knowingness and that knowingness forms the greater part of awareness. You walk down a road and as I always say you reach a fork, and having developed the subtler levels of the mind, you will just take the right path, you will just take the right turning and not the wrong turning. Now here is not a case of any analysis whatsoever. You have not started rationalising that where will this path take me, shall I take this one or that one, you just spontaneously know which way to turn. When you love someone very much and truly and sincerely, you will say to yourself something inside you, you know the little bird we talk about that whispers, inside you and tell you, ‘Yes this the woman for me or this is the man for me’. You don't analyse. You can't analyse because as soon as you start analysing then there is no love, there is just an intellectualisation. You are then examining the spouse’s mind if his or her thoughts agree with you. You start examining his or her tastes in various things, art, music , food, whatever. Is he, is she pretty or not? You know, how does her nose curl up or things like that. You start analysing and when the analysis ends and you have found that you have reached the totality of analysis according to your capacity, then that person will just become another person. That person becomes someone you know, that's all, someone you have met. And the love that should forever be flowering stops flowering. The plant dies. It has not been nurtured then, nurturing stops. No water, no fertiliser. And love is the only plant that requires all that sun and air and fertiliser and water for it to thrive. There are plants that could thrive without all that but the plant of love needs all that.

3. UK 80- 22 So what is required here for it to thrive is an expansion of consciousness. Now when we say an expansion of consciousness it is a contradiction of terms because consciousness cannot expand but language being so limited we have to use words, but rather the unfoldment of the consciousness that is already within us. So probing into the deeper layers of the mind, we start gaining a far greater view, a different perspective of life. And that is how not only love but every aspect of one’s life assumes a different proportions, wider proportions, higher proportions, greater proportions, so we develop in every direction in height and breadth and length, in every way possible. So when this happens, when this awareness or mind-stuff uncovers itself from the conditions which it has put on itself, it starts appreciating Sat which is truth and when truth comes, when truth dawns, it brings with it its other aspect called Ananda, bliss. So these three would forever work together. Now, you cannot, you cannot become joyful. I’m not talking of little petty pains and pleasures like here today and gone tomorrow, so transitory. But I am talking of the permanency and the permanent value of this life force of this existence, the permanency of bliss. And you start off with awareness. That is, you just cannot become joyous, you just cannot know truth without having awareness. So here with the aid of the conscious mind that we have on our hands at the moment, we use the conscious mind to dive deeper and deeper and to, to deeper and deeper levels, where the conscious mind gets invigorated into ways and means of proper discrimination, backed by the joy that is existing in the mind, that is beyond the conscious mind, which constitutes ninety percent. And when you capture more and more of the ninety percent, the more joyous you become, greater the awareness and then you reach the region as I said a moment ago of knowingness. That is what man has to aim at. The greatest mathematical genius, the greatest Professor of logic or of philosophy is not necessarily a realised man. He might have more problems than you or I. His problems could be more severe because he is just exercising that little sector of his mind. And even Einstein had to admit that there is a field far vaster that lies beyond. So when we find people like Einstein coming out of these earth-shaking theories or people like great inventors, like Edison and Faraday and all these people, what are they actually using, what is the mechanism? Are they using their little conscious mind? No, it might be highly tuned like a violin string, that conscious mind can be highly tuned, but what is involved in the theories that they put out or the inventions, is just a little glimpse of that sector of the mind which is deep within and beyond the conscious level. So if you ask any inventor, he'd say, ‘It came to me in a flash’. The greatest invention comes to you in a flash. So, for that moment, very temporarily, they get their glimpse, like the man that invented the electric bulb, Edison, Edison, yes? He failed ten thousand times in perfecting the bulb. And then one day, he got a flash of how to correct the filament or what was required. That is why, (Gururaj laughs), yes, yes, yes, yes. You see.

4. UK 80- 22 Now what we want to do is not to have temporary glimpses, just now and then, and every one has them. Everybody has temporary glimpses of Divinity and there was a survey conducted now, recently on a television programme in England I believe, where they conclusively proved that sixty two percent of the people that were interviewed sixty two percent had some glimpse of something higher than themselves. Some call it God, some call it 'Higher than myself' but another force, another power was there, came into play and they had these experiences. (Gururaj coughs) I beg your pardon. So this goes to show that the majority of people and the range of people interviewed was not such a great range. If th ere were more people interviewed, that percentage could definitely have been higher, I'm very sure of that. Good. So that means that everyone, or practically everyone has had a glimpse of Satchitananda, had a glimpse, where due to some mental chemistry, some undefinable mental chemistry, the person has dived deep within himself and became aware of something. Those moments are the joyous, most joyous moments you could ever have. Like, like a poet when he writes a poem, those are his greatest moments of ecstasy because he is not writing that poem with his conscious mind. His conscious mind is a vehicle through which he expresses himself. But from a far deeper level, when he has tuned himself to subtler levels of his mind, which is connected with the entire universe, he picks up these vibrations which are translated into words. And no poet, I write poetry so I know that no poet can really express everything that he really feels. Words are limited because the conscious mind is limited and it is only capable of certain sounds. Good. So in our system of meditation, as you all know, we take the maximum value of the vibration of the person. We take the totality of his vibration and with the aid of that he could tour the entire universe. He could explore all the various layers of the mind and at its very subtlest level, at the finest relative he'd find that bulb, he'd find that light in it its fullest glory shining in the finest relative. So this would naturally have some reflection on his subconscious mind and when it has some reflection on the subconscious mind, it must pour over into the conscious level of the mind. And when it pours over into the conscious level of the mind, which is the left hemisphere as we would call it, so he's transferring certain impulses, if you wish to call it that. So this subtlety, this subtle vibration or this subtle energy first through the right hemisphere, it transfers it over to the left hemisphere of the brain and that, those impulses in the left hemisphere of the brain try to verbalise it or symbolise it. That is where all your abstract painting comes from, depending on the evolutionary status of the person. That is where all the other great art comes from, that is where all the great poetry comes from. I can tell you one thing for sure that Shakespeare for example, and very few know this, that he was not only a poet but he was a great Sage. He could very easily be compared to some of the great Sages of the East, such as Valmichi and Yagnavelkia and

5. UK 80- 22 all these great men. So this is going off the point but many do claim that all these Sages and Saints and men of great wisdom are only of the East. That is not true. They are of the West also. They are everywhere, for after all, these various divisions England, America, Germany, Denmark, Holland, what are they? Made by man to fulfil his selfish greed and sense of acquisition. So now in such Satchitananda, we have all these qualities, for Sat is a quality, truth is a quality, Ananda or bliss is a quality. And the conveyor of truth and bliss, the mind, is also a quality or rather, we could use the word attribute, attributes of the one. Now the One or the Impersonal God is attributeless, therefore indefinable. A neutral energy as I always call it but this very neutral energy condenses itself, it manifests itself or it is its nature to manifest, manifests itself into the subtlest relative at its purest level and that we call the Personal God. Now I gave a long talk somewhere, on this trip I think it was, on the Personal God and the impersonal God. I'd like you to listen to that tape, you could borrow one from Keith. So that will give a background to what I am saying now because I don't like repeating the same thing over and over again. Good. Fine, so this becomes, the impersonal becomes personal at its finest, purest, relative level. Now whenever anything becomes personal, it necessarily means, necessarily means it has a personality. Now, when anything assumes a personality, it must have attributes so Satchitananda are the attributes of the personalised God, who can from time to time take human form. That is why we have Buddha, Christ, Jesus, Krishna, all these great incarnations and Avatars, as they are called in Sanskrit. So these qualities according to the question are the attributes of personalised God and to repeat again, the impersonal God is attributeless. So when we define, when we say 'God is all merciful', 'God is all just', 'God is all love', when we use these words, we are describing Personal God. And man needs the Personal God to focus his attention, for it is only through the concrete that when one could approach the abstract. It is only through a concrete object, that concrete object becomes the door. 'Knock and it shall be opened'. What does it mean? It does not only mean search. It does not only seek and though shalt find or knock and it shall be opened. What are you knocking at and what is it that you want opened? Do you know where you knock, really? The search. You knock at the heart of the Personal God, call him Buddha or Christ or Krishna, whatever, names do not matter because it is the same pure consciousness described and worshipped in different ways, by different cultures but the essence of it remains the same. So when we say 'Knock and it shall be opened' we are knocking at the heart of Jesus, of Christ. You see, and definitely being all just and mercifu l and compassionate, He opens himself to you. What does this mean? These are theological terms. What does this mean when we say he opens himself to you when you knock at his heart? It means that you are expanding. It means that you

6. UK 80- 22 are unfolding the consciousness that is latent in you but so veiled for the moment. For if we cannot conceive of Divinity as a living presence then there is no Divinity. So we start there like acknowledging to ourselves because we all have glimpses of something and what we want to do is turn those glimpses into minute to minute reality so they do not remain as glimpses. ‘Oh, I had that experience five years ago, all that’. We want to say, ‘Yes, that experience is with me every second, that experience is with me with every breath I take’. And that is the living presence and that is to use the questioner’s word, reconciling oneself with God, reconciling oneself with the personal God who is Satchitananda. So, (Gururaj coughs) - beg your pardon. It was not me coughing it was - He does everything doesn't He? But when bad things come, you know we say, ‘He does it’, but when good things come, ‘I do it’. Yes, yes, yes. So we reconcile, we bring to our conscious level as much as possible the living presence and this is achieved through our meditational and spiritual practices. So meditational and spiritual practices does not only mean sitting down with your mantra in the morning or doing Tratak or any of the various techniques that are given to different people, it also means living and giving force to that life-force or allowing rather, that life-force to work its way throughout the day unimpeded. Now how does this happen? Meditation gives you the strength, meditation opens you up, but now you've got to put the meditation into practice. And where does practice start? At the very moment where you are. Practice starts in the now. And this whole day is composed of nothing else but ‘Now's’. There is no one o'clock and two o'clock and three o'clock and four o'clock. No such thing. These things are conceived by man's little mind and of course thanks to the Swiss watchmakers. When a person becomes totally unconscious of time then only does he go into timelessness, but we need time in this world to keep things in an order, otherwise there would be chaos. But when it comes to one’s spiritual self and you enter the field of timelessness, enter the field of Satchitananda, which is timeless, eternal, infinite, when you enter that field of timelessness then you just live in the now, for every moment is now. Every moment is now. Would you like to play a game Savita? Um, good, fine. I need my glasses for that. What is your time? Savita. It's your turn. Gururaj. Let's not talk of hours, just minutes and seconds, eh, okay. Twenty three fifty two. Savita. Twenty three fifty five I have.

7. UK 80- 22 Gururaj. You’re wrong totally. Its twenty three fifty seven now. Savita. No, no you’re wrong, it’s twenty four exactly now. Gururaj. No. Twenty-four O five. Savita. Twenty four ten Gururaj. Oh, can't you tell me the truth for God's sake. (General laughter) Please? It's twenty-one eighteen. Twenty-four eighteen. Savita. No, no, you’re wrong. It's twenty four twenty five, I make it. Gururaj. Twenty-four thirty. Savita. Thirty-five. Gururaj. No. I wonder who is right here? She or me? Do you see? Where is your time? Where is time? Every moment is changing, changing, changing. So we are involved in change, change, change and not in permanency. You see? Every moment that’s past is past, even on the relative level. But on the absolute level as the awareness expands, we reach the area of light and timelessness, where everything stands still and in that stillness you know everything. ‘Be still, be still and know that I am God’. All the Scriptures say that. So we've got to find that stillness. We got to find that stillness, not this changing time all the time. You can't even take a breath without there being change. Change, change, change. So amidst this change, there is the changeless factor of Satchitananda for that even as the Father who is impersonal, so the Son, the Personal is also changeless for being the primal manifestation. That is why - you see we don’t understand our Scriptures - that is why, when they talk of His 'Only begotten Son’, it is so true, for that Impersonal God is only capable of one manifestation, because the impersonal manifests itself in the oneness that He really is. So this is all very poetically portrayed because man could not understand until he is given stories. Today the mind has become more sophisticated. Today things could be explained at a deeper level, at a deeper level than in the days

8. UK 80- 22 when Krishna or Jesus walked this earth. And perhaps in the future things could be explained in a still more deeper form, still more deeper level. So what do we want? We want that stillness inside and you can't get it if you don't make any effort to get it. Anything, anything. You have a beautiful plate of food in front of you, its not going to go into your stomach or your mouth, without you using your knife and fork, or your hands or whatever way you - you've still got to make that little bit of effort. I get a complaint sometimes, sometimes a person writes to me, he says, ‘Beloved Guruji, I have one problem. I have no problem as far as meditation goes, I enjoy it so much and I feel so much at peace and rested and all those things. But my problem is to get down to meditation’. You see. So I say, ‘You waste so much time, you waste so much time throughout the day.’ Even at work how much time don't we waste? Oh definitely. Where five minutes could be spent in the loo, we spend ten minutes because we've got to finish the cigarette. And like that, in everything so much time is wasted. Time that we know here on the relative plane and yet time cannot be found to become one with Satchitananda which is another name for Krishna or Christ. You see? You see the ramification of your question? How deep one can go into it and analyse it, for in the area of Satchitananda, we cease to analyse then for stillness knows no analysis, for if there is analysis there is no stillness, because analysis is activating brain cells and other subtler cells that exist behind the twelve billion brain cells that we know of. You see. So that is the story behind Satchitananda and you can call it by any name you like, but it is still existence. It is still life force, it is still bliss. The three aspects. So everything has a trinity. Everything has these aspects and because of that trinity we find that threefold aspect in practically everything we see. Yes, good, fine. Okay. Is that about forty minutes? Forty five.. Gururaj. Forty five. Good. Now it’s twelve thirty one. What does your time say? Eh. What time do you have to go for lunch? Voice. About one o'clock. Gururaj. Good. Now can we have half an hour of - if you wish to, if you like? Ask anything you like, even how to cook beans. Questioner. ............ (Inaudible) ...... if there are any beans coming up.

9. UK 80- 22 Gururaj. You, you, you see to that okay, sit up there, yeh, fine. Voice. My favourite seat. Gururaj. Ah, lovely. Questioner. Guruji, Is there something special happening this Easter. Gururaj. Is there something? Sorry? Questioner(Cont'd). You said on the Nottingham course last year that something would happen this Easter? You said you would say more about it? Gururaj. Easter is special really. Yes. It should be a wonderful reminder really. There was something that we were all going to do this Easter but we will have to leave it until next Easter I think. Certain circumstances would prevent me from doing it. I've got a trip booked to America during that period and normally at Easter, I go into silence and a total fast for about seven days. And unfortunately the dates have been so arranged for the American trip that it falls within this period or else we were going to do something really nice. Next year. No hurry. What is time? Questioner. Do these Festivals, oops, I'm sorry, Festivals at Easter and Christmas which have such a potent rhythm in the Northern Hemisphere and are attached to the Northern Hemisphere myths and religions, have they the same advocations significance in the Southern Hemisphere? Gururaj. Oh yes. Everywhere the same significance. It has the same significance not only in the hemispheres of this world but also far, far beyond the entire universe. Yes. Questioner. I am troubled because the Guna balance is so different in the two Hemispheres. Gururaj. Is there? I must go into that? The Guna balance or imbalance, rather, is the same everywhere. It is a matter of shifting of energies, the forces of inertia and the forces of light, forces of darkness and light being activated by Rajas, the

10. UK 80- 22 activating factor between the two and this happens sometimes at some place somewhere in the universe. Darkness rises more and as the Gita says, ‘When darkness rises, I come from age to age’. Krishna says that in the Gita to get rid of evil and create a balance the forces, between the Gunas. So this happens all the time. It is only when the imbalance is so great that the Avatar would come. Otherwise there will always be an imbalance because it is this very imbalance that keeps this universe in motion otherwise there would be no universe. And if there's no universe, there is no manifestation. And if there's no manifestation, there's no Manifestor and there's no Impersonal God, no Personal God, no man, no world, no universe. So this will carry on and even in the time of Pralaya - I am using this term seeing that I could see you have read or studied some things about this - so even in the times of Pralaya which is seemingly a balance, there are still very fine currents within that balance that re-erupt. And that is why the scientists talk of the explosions that occur and universes are born. And it is on that, that evolution starts from. Evolution starts from that explosion, because with explosion there is an expulsion of energy and that expulsion is evolution. As the minute particles sub-atomic, sub, sub, sub, sub, sub-atomic particle goes through these various forces, with which it combines and to express the consciousness that is within itself. So that very sub, sub, sub-atomic particle has the same consciousness that you and I have, the same consciousness. One is in an involved state, while the other is in an evolved state. That's the difference. And we are in a period of transition. Man is in a period of transition and therefore he suffers so many miseries. Yes. We are on the threshold of Divinity, we are at the door. Man, potentially divine, has to open the door to become totally divine. We’re at a very high state. We’re okay. ‘I'm all right, Jack’. Yes, yes. Questioner. Gururaj, is there any way you can help me if you like in terms of, I know that I like some people, dislike other people. I accept this as what I would call a natural reaction. Now, I also know that I like certain foods and dislike others. And there is some connection between that, call it a 'gut reaction', if you like and what's good for me. When it comes to people, by and large I still accept my 'gut reaction’. I associate with the people I like and see less of the people I dislike Gururaj. Very true. Questioner.(Cont'd). And that's the way I get by. In all religions and in your teachings, there seems to be an exhortation that 'I sort of hit my head against the brick wall' with trying to like people that I just do not like. And you know this is fine when one is sat here but I'm just saying am I not trying to sort of again trying to 'pull myself up by my own bootstraps.'

11. UK 80- 22 Gururaj. Poor boy. (General laughter) Now, you know our principle is life, love and laughter so you mustn't mind a couple of jokes here and there. What you call natural reaction, there is some truth in it. It’s partly true but not totally true, for the natural reaction that is within man, is to love all. That is man's innate nature. That is what man has inherited. That is man’s essential nature is to love one and all. But this aversion or repulsion for some people, comes about because of patternings. Now every human being has gone through various experiences in this life or in previous lives, if you believe in that. And you might have had experiences of people of a similar nature of these that you dislike in this life. You might have had some adverse experiences, so the mind being a memory box, containing the entire history of the universe, immediately pulls out the index card. We're always doing that in every situation. We go to that memory box or drawer and we see a dog on the road. The first thing that is done is automatically the drawer with 'dogs' written on it, gets pulled open and say, ‘Ah, dog, dog’. You see. So what this means actually is an association of ideas. And because of having had an adverse experience with a similar kind of person and by similar kind of person, I don't mean the looks but the, that which that person is emanating. You see everything emanates a force. There is a magnetic field around everything, call it magnetic, call it electromagnetic or in the - Occultists, they might call it aura or, I just call it an energy, a force that everything emanates. And what you feel on meeting this person, say even for the first time, you dislike that person, everyone has that experience. You meet someone and you just don't like that person. Right. That person is emanating a certain field, magnetic field, let’s use that word, and it just stirs up in your memory box an adverse experience that you had with someone that is, that had emanated a similar force. Now this can be overcome and this can be overcome through spiritual practices, where as the awareness becomes widened, as the awareness develops or unfolds then a lot of the past experiences are eradicated or rubbed away. So we are nothing, as I've always said, but a bundle of experiences. So what we have to do as man, is to unexperience ourselves. Like I said, I don't know when, I never remember what I talk about, that we don't need to learn, what we have to do is unlearn. Right. So it’s not gaining more experience but unexperiencing the experiences that we had. And that is what is meant in the Scriptures 'Be as a child, then only would you enter the kingdom of heaven’. To become childlike, without being muddled by all the experiences that we have had. So our process after reaching, through evolution, the - to the height of human, the human level, we have to unexperience all those experiences and really experience ourselves, our primal selves. And that experience is not done with the mind because then we go beyond the mind and then the experience experiences itself. There's no one else to experience it, for subject and object becomes one. There is no differentiation, there is no likes nor dislikes at that level .

12. UK 80- 22 But here living in this world we have things, foods we like and foods we don't like and I hope this chap, Mr Wood is playing the game. Is he? So, that's it and spiritual practices does help to diminish gradually our dislikes. And that is why, the Bible puts it in a different way, ‘Love thine enemy’. So that's all what it is about, it's very simple really. Very simple. Yeah. Good. Nex t. Questioner. Guruji, what significance should we attach or should I, I'm not particularly an Astrologer but many people ar e very fascinated by astrology. What significance should we attach to astrology in terms of explanations and influences? Gururaj. If I see an Astrologer, I run a mile. Good. Astrology is as good as the Astrologer. Now, it is a very ancient science but in true forecasting or drawing a horoscope, one uses only ten percent of the principles that had been discovered. Ninety percent is intuition. And the more evolved the person is, the better the Astrologer he would be. So astrology is as good as the Astrologer. Now, I would never advise anyone, anyone to go to an Astrologer for a horoscope. Anyone that goes to an Astrologer does it for so many reasons and they are negative reasons. Firstly they feel insecure of their future, so therefore they want to know what's going to happen. They feel inadequate within themselves and with insecurity and inadequacy, there are so many other negative qualities involved. So why worry about the future? Where is the future? What do you know what's going to happen to you in the next five minutes time? We could all drop dead for that matter. And that is one thing you can always be certain about in life. So I personally do not encourage any of these sciences such as astrology and that, because I have had experiences of people coming to me. And a very well known personality in South Africa, I think I told you this before nevertheless since Tim has asked. He is a very well known personality and a leader of a spiritual movement. He went to a very well known, you know well known people only go to well known people, a very well known Astrologer who drew up his charts and you know all those things and drew up a horoscope. And in there it was stated that you must not get married because your marriage will not last for more than two years and you will go through hell, agony. Don't get married. So here he leaves Cape Town, that's where I am - you must visit Cape Town sometime, its one of the most beautiful cities in the world, we have the mountain there, we have the sea there and we have Gururaj there. (Gururaj laughs) Good. Fine. Nice to laugh. So he phones me from Johannesburg which is a thousand miles away from Cape Town. He says, ‘I would like to see you and can I come down?’ And we looked up the diary and I say, ‘Yes, fly down, we'll have a chat on whatever

13. UK 80- 22 problem there is’. If I felt that this must be urgent if he wants to fly down a thousand miles and a thousand miles back. S o he came down and he says, ‘I've met a girl and I've fallen terribly in love with her. And she loves me very much too and we are like you know two pods in a pea. Aide. We could go the other way round. Gururaj. You can't have two peas in a pod, can you? Yes, yes that's right. Yes, yes, that's right. Right of course. Like two peas in a pod. How do you spell pod? Aide. P O D. Gururaj. T Aide. D Gururaj. P O D Sorry, no one caught that. (General laughter) Right. (Gururaj laughs) You thought Gurus are serious people. No. They are ordinary, they like to laugh and joke and be of good cheer. That's what the Lord said, eh. So he came down and he brought his horoscope and he said, ‘Look, I've met this girl and I love her very much. She loves me and look at this. What must I do?’ So he showed me the horoscope. I read it and I tore it up into as many small pieces as I can and threw it in my waste paper basket. I say, ‘You take the next plane back and you propose to Ingrid and get married’. Right. They are married now seven, eight years and have a lovely little baby and they are very, very happy. So these Astrologers can do a lot of damage also. They can do a lot of damage. As a matter of fact, many times if a Fortune Teller or Astrologer tells you something and your mind will start working on it, working on it, working on it, that your very thought forces will make that happen. Yes. So don't waste money, rather send those fees to some charitable organisation like an orphanage or a blind society, or anything like that, it will have greater value instead of - Okay. Next. Questioner. Guruji, I really wanted just to go back to the previous question when people were speaking about, someone that they instinctively like or dislike and you said it was because you were reminded of a similar type of person. There is a theory that maybe it's the same soul which we knew in a previous incarnation but we are now meeting again. And if we loved or liked them before or reverse, the same again. Would that be so?

14. UK 80- 22 Gururaj. If we did the reverse of what we did before? It would be a continuum rather. Questioner. (Cont'd). If someone we loved before and this soul incarnates again now and we meet him again, can we love him again? Gururaj. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The problem is not loving that person again, the problem is avoiding hating the person. That is the problem we have to overcome. Oh yes, it's nice to love. It's oh so terrible to hate. Okay. Any more? Questioner. Is it possible for a mentally handicapped person of twenty three, female with a very unstable temper, to learn the art of meditation, she can neither read, write or anything else? It is quite normal and not unintelligent for a mentally handicapped person, but maybe she has her brain slightly brain-damaged. Is it possible that she can learn meditation? Gururaj. Oh yes, oh yes. If you would have her Form sent in with a photograph and that, we can do a lot about it. As a matter of fact every morning my work in South Africa is to cover many Hospitals. I am called up by the Cardiac Clinics, Hospitals there in Cape Town. When a person has to undergo an operation and is just feeling so afraid and terrible and all on nerves and the doctors feel that sedatives does not always help so much. So I put them through a process of meditation where they are very, very calmed down and that adds a great deal. I am sure Doctor Tim will tell you, it helps the operation. It does a great deal to the success of the operation. And then I go to the mentally retarded homes and I have a very special interest in mentally retarded children because of a personal experience. We had a child, my wife and I, who was born mentally retarded. He was born spastic and of course I know how much the mother had to go through, you know bringing the child up. He lived to the age of five years. And we do not wish to go into politics but the facilities of a person, for a person like me who’s dark, are not just there. But of course we had the baby at home and we did our best. And it was only in later years that I went into deep meditation on the baby and found that he just needed that little experience of rebirth to enter into total salvation. So that is why he was born as a spastic child. Now if you have this person who is mentally retarded, we could really go into the psychic problem or the disturbance and will be greatly helped. Oh yes. So I have a very, very special interest because of this personal experience of mine and how much the parents do go through. For well, of course you'll get a don't care a damn parents as well but we are not referring to those kinds. We are referring to the responsible people. So yes, yes, oh yes, yes, yes, yes. It could be male or female it does not matter, age, nothing, it does not matter at all. Good.

15. UK 80- 22 Aide. Dorothy. Dorothy. Guruji, you did tell us in one of the Satsangs, that when people see people as they’re approaching death, it’s just a projection of their own minds. What then, how do we explain to people who seem to have contact with people who have died, like those who have died afterwards. Is there something to do with the fact that past, present and future are all there and everything is there and they just seem to become one being for that moment? Gururaj. That is true, past, present and future in a different dimension coexists. That is very true, but now when a person has very much attachment to a particular person then in that dimension you have the ability, because here is your subtle body at work - Ted knows all about it, Ted Partridge there - is your subtle body at work and the subtle body has the power. You see the grosser physical body becomes a limiting factor in most cases to the subtle body and in the subtle body, one has the power to project one's desire. So, if a man has lost his wife or the wife has lost the husband and there is that deep bond then when you leave this body, your very desire, your very attachment can make you project from your mind, the person that you loved or that you are attached to. Oh yes. So when they write these songs - see you on the other side, it’s true. Yes, it is not reality, but, it is not total reality, but it is a dimensional reality. You see. Oh you can meet, can meet, oh yes. If you love me very much for example and you reach the other side and want me at any time, I'm there. Yes, just there. Your mind. Questioner. Does the same apply here and now? Gururaj. Yes, oh yes. Questioner. I mean with everyone? Gururaj. With everyone, with everyone. It depends how deep you can go in your mind, at what finer and finer layer, layer, level you can reach. And this has been proven over and over again. For example, Ramakrishna, one of the great Sages at the turn of the century, used to worship Mother Kali, a stone image, and he used to bring her alive by his own mental projection and alive, so he could touch and feel and smell her even with his senses and he used to have long conversations with her. If he had a problem, he used call on Mother and used to ask Mother, ‘What shall I do?’ Yes, so these are realities. They are realities within realities, but what we want is actuality. Ah. What is actual and what is real? There lies the distinction and discrimination.

16. UK 80- 22 I think that bell rang. We've got to go to school now. END

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