United Kingdom 80-38
1. UK 80- 38 Gururaj. I was speaking to Hugh this evening and he said that instead of giving a long talk, that people have requested rather to have a quick rapid fire question and answer session. So if you wish it that way, it’s okay by me. Questions. Questioner. If one knew that one was going to die, if one were aware that one was getting close to death, maybe one was dying, waiting to die, is there any particular prayer or worship or devotion or whatever that one could use? Gururaj. Oh yes, you do have a prayer but the prayer depends upon what you have faith in and what you believe in. Now there is a Zen system that you must be beyond everything. They say that if you feel thirsty, then wait for the thirst to go away before you drink water. If you feel hungry, wait for the hunger to go away and then you eat. So here this man was lying in bed on the verge of dying, good, so he was afraid to pray because according to their philosophy he had to wait for the prayer to go away before he could die. And so he struggled and tossed up and down in bed but the prayer was uppermost in his mind and he couldn't die. So, well that is the Zen system. But it’s always good to pray when you feel an impending death. But why only wait for death? Let prayer be your life all the time. The Hindus have a belief that at the time of death if, you never mind what kind of sinner you have been, but if you would only say ‘Rama, Rama, Rama’, then you'd reach enlightenment, you will have salvation. There might be some truth there but the thing is, repeating those words parrot like, would have no value whatsoever. Have you built yourself up to the stage whereby Rama, Krishna, Christ has become a reality to you? And if it has become a reality to you, then the presence of that God or Deity would be there with you all the time. And you do not need to shout out in prayer. Now if you're dying and you pray, what are you going to pray for? "Oh Lord lead me to Heaven." What right have you got to ask that? Doesn't Divinity know where you are to be led to? If there should be a prayer, it should be rather a thankfulness that "If I have to leave now, then I do thank Thee for having given me the privilege to go through this life to learn and if I have been sincere, then surely I have learnt something. And if I've not been sincere in this life, then please if Your will is so, give me another chance to learn more, to better myself so that I could come close to Thee." So when you're on the verge of dying, remember Graham, this is what you do. Questioner. Gururaj, we are told that the body is made up of three parts, one of which is spirit, which is God. If you're praying to God, who are you praying to? Gururaj. Yourself. Questioner.(Cont’d) Right, then, if we are dying, who do I pray to then?
2. UK 80- 38 Gururaj. Yourself. Yes, now. It is only when you come to the realisation, the actual realisation and not in analysis that the spirit within me is the same universal spirit that knows no separation, then the prayer is directed to yourself because you have found that unity, you have found that oneness. Then all prayer is not necessarily directed to yourself or something beyond you. It is just a prayer because that very realisation of the unity of the oneness between you and Divinity requires no prayer. It is a united thing and that very unison is a prayer itself. But if you're still dabbling in duality, where you regard yourself to be separate from Divinity, then at that stage by all means you pray to your God. For one day the time will come when you will realise the oneness between you and Him and that itself is the greatest prayer, the greatest meditation, for all prayer and meditation is none else but the realisation that "I am, all exists. I am the existence. Within me is contained all. For I and the Father are one." Questioner. Gururaj, do we keep the souls of our family and friends attached to us when we pray for their progression? Gururaj. Do we keep the, the souls of our family and friends attached to us if we? Questioner. When we say prayers for their progression, when they've passed this plane? Gururaj. No, you do not keep – attached - them attached to you unless you have some selfish motive. But if it’s an offering, then it is no attachment whatsoever because by praying for them, that very prayer becomes an offering for which you do not require any return. But if the prayer is this that "May my son win a football pool so that he could look after me", that is attachment and that has no value. But a prayer for the sake of the prayer, for the benefit of others is a selfless, unselfish act and it has great value. So it’s always good to pray for others, be they one's family friends or anyone. Bette r still pray for the enemy, pray for the persecutors. Always good. Questioner. Gururaj, why are Mandalas only available on deepening Courses? Gururaj. Who says they are only available on deepening Courses? Questioner.(Cont’d) I have never known anyone being given one at another time
3. UK 80- 38 Gururaj. There have been a lot given, there have been a lot given privately. Oh yes. But it is a process - to teach the Mandala Practice takes about an hour and a half and if people should come individually for a Mandala Practice, it can be done undeniably so, but then the teachers have other things to do as well. And the Mandala Practice is only taught by the full teacher and we only have a handful of full teachers scattered round the country, so it becomes difficult. So on a Course, it is done together where fifteen, twenty people, thirty people, whatever the case might be, can be taught at the same time because the principle therein remains the same. So it is just for convenience and not to overburden the teachers that we do that. Otherwise there's nothing wrong in doing it individually. We have had many cases where a person is leaving for overseas, you know leaving the city or the country and says "Look, I would like to have my practice before I go" and we do that. We do that. As a matter of fact I think it was Hugh that asked me that if I could bring a form and if he could do it because the person is unable to come on the Course and I said yes. Questioner. Guruji, is it possible to reach a state of enlightenment through any other avenue besides meditation and spiritual practices? Is there any other way that enlightenment would come about? Gururaj. Oh yes. Oh yes. Every, - through every way, through everything you can become enlightened. If a shoemaker applies himself so thoroughly in making a pair of shoes, totally involved with his mind, body and soul to bring those shoes to total perfection. Even a carpenter, a goldsmith anyone for that matter, if he can create that perfection, that will and that perfection in the article made, reflects an integration that is taking place within himself, then he will become enlightened. I have told you a story on the last Course I think, of the village potter who was, who became an enlightened man. But in this modern world, these practices that we teach are the easiest, most conducive to the times of today and therefore most viable. Everything can lead you to enlightenment. Actually you are enlightened already, you do not need to be led there because leading someone somewhere means from point A to point B. You are enlightened, only thing the realisation must dawn. The beans are in the can already, the can has to be opened (General Laughter). Yeah. Questioner. Is there such thing as momentary enlightenment? Gururaj. Never heard of it. There are momentary glimpses but not momentary enlightenment. Enlightenment is enlightenment but sometimes when you are in total alignment, mind, body and spirit is in total alignment, then you catch that glimpse when you are totally centred and not on the periphery. At that moment you catch a glimpse but true enlightenment is a permanent condition and not just a glimpse.
4. UK 80- 38 Gururaj. I think Joan, June. Voice. Guruji, when we are doing a group healing for somebody, how important is it to have for example, their name and a photograph or details of their particular Gururaj. Good. By having the name, birth date if you wish, or the photograph is an aid. It helps one to focus. By focusing, you form a direct channel to the person. Now if you don't know what the person looks like, you can send forth healing energies but on the way they could be dissipated because it is not focused. It’s like throwing a sheet of water across the floor or throwing it through a groove. So it would be good. It is important, although even without knowing the person, it has some effect but the other would be a direct and more powerful effect, for the energies would be concentrated. Questioner. Beloved Guruji, I have two questions Gururaj. Ask one first. (Gururaj laughs) Questioner. You said we only think that we think earlier in the evening, and that thoughts, it’s a question that Sybil had, that you said things in the physical usually return to the source, they don't remain, but that thoughts are indestructible. Could you explain if basically we make ourselves channels for thoughts and negativities and they are very powerful, why are thoughts so indestructible and do they not return to their benign origin? Gururaj. They do. Next. Questioner. Are thoughts in meditation as powerful, if you give vent to negative thoughts in meditations - this was a question that came up at a Teachers' Course - are they as powerful as thoughts you would give off, out of meditation? Gururaj. Right let's tackle both parts of your question. Thoughts in meditation, because the conscious mind reaches a certain state of rest and by doing that, by bringing the conscious mind to a certain state of rest, the thoughts in the sub- conscious mind come to the fore. And those thoughts from the sub-conscious mind being of a subtler nature are naturally more powerful. Yet they still have to be brought to the surface of the conscious level but in this case those thoughts would be unimpeded and being unimpeded, the thoughts through meditation are definitely more powerful. Good. When
5. UK 80- 38 thoughts are given off in any other state, meditative state or the waking state, are not destructible. They are not destroye d but they would reach throughout the entire universe, for it is a force, a thought is a thing. Now I've said that every thought that is thought, will reach its own original elements. Now in every thought there is an energy involved and that energy is a pure energy. If that energy was not a pure energy, it would not have any momentum but a negative thought would colour that pure energy. So here the thought would go out with the colourings and patternings of the person's mind and yet it would dissipate itself. So the purity goes to the purity, to the benign and the colourings go to the colourings. The negativities, the hatreds go to the hatreds. Even within hatred, there is purity, the purity of that primal energy because without the primal energy nothing could ever have motion or movement. So everything goes to where it belongs. The hatefulness will go to hatefulness, to a person who is of like thought. It will go there. Loving thoughts will go to a person who is in a frame of mind of love and it will reach there, of the, reach to the person that is loving of, and who is operating on the same wavelength. So everything, every negative act, every hurtful act, every hurtful, hateful negative thought also has within itself the element of purity. For it has to be. If Divinity or the essence is omnipresent, then it must be present in negativity as well. Good. Questioner. Guruji, after we are reborn, will we continue on the path of evolvement where we have left off or is it possible we may have to retread parts of it? Gururaj. You will, when a person passes away, then he take the sum-totality of himself with him. Now say the sum- totality is the figure twelve. Now according to the laws of evolution, it is not necessary to know how the twelve was made up. It could be six two's or three four's or twelve one's. What you take with you is the sum totality that has been produced by this lifetime. Now there are people that believe, for example the Indians, they believe that if you live a bad life, you'll be born as a dog or a cat or a mouse or a cow. Now I have not found any truth in this. I found, I've gone into deep enquiry, not mental enquiry but through meditational enquiry in a different dimension altogether and I found that a person does not retrogress. Evolution is always progressive. Good. So once you have reached the human kingdom, then you will always be in the human kingdom and if you have advanced much further, you'd be in a dimension which is higher than the human. So nothing to worry about. So the experiences that have been gained good or bad, have been lessons and all lessons are always leading you on further. When we were talking about death this morning, there's one thing I mentioned the previous night which I said "Oh, we'll talk about it tomorrow" that was this - that there are two kinds of people that take a very long time to reincarnate or to take
6. UK 80- 38 life again, the one is the very evil person and the one is the very highly enlightened person or highly evolved person. The reason is this, that in this present world according to this present world's evolutionary state, the very evil person will have to wait and wait and wait until the proper genetic combination is found in parents. So Hitler for example, will not be born very soon. Yes. It will take him hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years to find parents with the proper genetic combination so that he can be born through. The same thing applies to a very highly evolved person because he will have to find suitable parents of that stature for him to be born again. So these two people, the very evil and the highly evolved, take a very long time to come back to earth or whatever planet. Questioner. There's quite a lot heard nowadays about people who claim to recall incidents of past existences under hypnotic regression. In Satsang you gave, I think it was in the States, I've heard a tape of it earlier in the year, you said because memory is contained in the brain cells, when the body dies the brain cells die and therefore memory must die. Well if that is the case, these people who claim to recall past existences, is this not a fallacy? Gururaj. Now let me explain you that. The memory is not contained in the brain cells, the memory is contained in the mind. The brain with its cells is nothing else but an organ, like a hand or a foot but a highly sensitive organ. So, the memory of the entire existence or from the beginning of existence, is contained in the mind and when the chemical combination is right, which is produced through various means, one can tap the mind so that what is stored as what we call memory can be brought through the mechanism of the brain cells to the conscious level where that memory becomes a thought. So memories are not contained in the brain cells. Memories are contained in the mind which is beyond the organ called the brain. So if the brain is destroyed, it does not mean memory is destroyed. When a man dies, then his brain is destroyed. Lack of oxygen will kill off all the cells but he still goes on with all his memories and impressions an d samskaras to be reborn again. So that alone proves that the brain is just an organ, nothing more, necessary organ. Questioner. So, these experiences of previous lives can be genuine, can be real? Gururaj. They could be real. They could be real because it goes beyond the brain cells to the sub-conscious level and the organ, the brain has nothing to do with the sub-conscious levels of the mind. It is just a machine. That's all. Questioner.(Cont’d) What use is the brain then, Gururaj?
7. UK 80- 38 Gururaj. The brain is of use to portray, it’s a vehicle. What's the use of a pen for example? I mean the pen does not write, you write but you got to have the pen as an instrument to write. Likewise the brain is an instrument. This hand does not move on its own, it’s an instrument through which the energy flows to make it move. That's all. Questioner. Guruji, I have often been asked why we do the Chant as an odd number of rounds, three, five, seven and also why the last round alternates male and female and I don't know how to answer. Gururaj. What was that again? Questioner. She wanted - don't get - sorry Sybil - you tell me. Sybil. Why do we always do an odd number of rounds in the Chant, first of all and secondly, why is it that the last round is always alternating men and women? Gururaj. The reason that we - let me start with the second part first - the reason why we alternate between men and women is this that basically men and women are non-different. At the higher level, spiritual level, there's no such thing as man or woman. Those are just mental and physiological expressions which make a man a man and a woman a woman. Right. Fine. Now why do we chant with odd numbers? It is said that we through chanting, are reaching higher levels of vibration and it has been proven by the Sages that to reach higher levels of vibration one has to pierce vibrations and an odd number is always pointed while an even number is square, horizontal and that you'd find it difficult to pierce deeper, subtler vibrations. Like throwing a stone at something and shooting an arrow at something. So there are certain atmospheric layers in the world, in the universe, in this room, for chanting goes beyond this room and to pierce the higher layers of vibrations, we use the arrow form which is the odd number. Good. Questioner. Gururaj, I wonder if you could say a few words about the next Saviour, the Messiah? Gururaj. I know nothing about it. Questioner. Guruji, will you come back to this Earth again if you have the opportunity? (General laughter)
8. UK 80- 38 Gururaj. Will I come back to this Earth again if I have the opportunity? I've never been away. There's no coming and going. Change suits all the time, you know, clothes - put on a blue shirt tomorrow, I'll put on a yellow one, same thing. The Atman or the immortal spirit of man, that consciousness which you could call the Christ consciousness or the Messiah consciousness or Krishna consciousness has never left. It is in existence from eternity and will go through eternity. There's no coming or going because it is all. Where can it go to? Where can it go to and where can it come from? So the man that has reached the utmost highest level of consciousness is always there. So therefore the Hindu prayer, it’s a Vedic prayer, it’s a universal pray which says 'Om asato ma sad gamaya' - 'Lead me from mortality to immortality'. That means that from this limited self, lead me to the unlimited self that I really am. 'Tamso ma jyotir gamaya' - ‘Lead me from darkness of my ignorance to that light of knowledge'. So where is the coming, where is the going? The bubbles, the waves, bubbles in the pond, they come up as bubbles filled with air, burst again. Where do they go? They come from the water, back into the water, always there. Everything is immortal. And why is one person regarded to be a Messiah or a Saviour? Why? Why? There's no difference between Jesus and you, or Buddha and you. Same. Same bag of flesh and bones. You do the same acts that he did and everything the same. The only difference is this that you are in nescience, in ignorance of your true self, while the Messiah knows his true self. He has realised his true self. And why do we call him Messiah, is because having known his true self from eternity, from the word go, from beginless time, he still, because of love and compassion, to try and balance the evils that exist, takes form. He takes form by his own volition, his own will. Therefore such a man we call a Saviour a Messiah because he knows the entirety of what pure consciousness is. He lives in that consciousness all the time. And what the body does and the mind does, he's not worried about. Let them play because once embodiment is there, then there could be, there could never be bodily or mentally perfection in its totality. For perfection lies beyond the body and the mind. That is pure consciousness. That’s why we say 'In the world but not of the world.' That's what it is. No coming, no going, no life, no death but just an 'Isness'. Life and death are only in the realms of relativity where the mind and the body dwells but not in the realm of pure consciousness. It just is. And when the person realises and reaches that 'Isness' then he becomes that 'Isness', one without a second. And that is why we call them the Son of God. Why do we call Jesus the Son of God, because he took on a form. He became embodied and having become embodied and having had a mind, a minute amount of imperfection remains in him because of the mind and body their encumbrances. So that is the Son and the pure consciousness that is perfect, that's the Father. You see. Not some old man sitting up in Heaven with a long beard. Yeah. That's the secret of life. Next.
9. UK 80- 38 Questioner. Guruji, some people speak of their Dharma as being of this or that. Must dharma be cognised to be fulfilled? Gururaj. When dharma, dharma means a way of life, dharma means duty in life. You have your dharma towards your parents, your children your brothers your sisters your friends what have you. That is duties in life and that is what dharma means. Now cognising dharma could be a step on the way that 'This is my dharma and I have to do it. I have to perform this or perform that.' Now the only drawback there, it’s a good start, one has to start somewhere. Like a child learning to play the piano, like Eric learning to play the piano when he did one finger, one finger and today he'll play the finest Symphonies and still hold a lovely philosophical conversation with you. Yeah. I know that. Right, so, in the beginning you do it with effort, right, but that does only have a very limited value. The real value of dharma comes when you don't perform dharma but you become dharma. In other words all actions are spontaneous, then you have reached what dharma is and in that spontaneity whatever you do is good and true because you are being yourself. As I said, I don't know when, people tell you "Be like Jesus, be like Krishna, be like this, be like that", but how many tell you, "Be yourself." Because that is what you are. Why imitate? Why become an imitation? You don't want to be an imitation Einstein or, Eric doesn't want to be an imitation Bach. He wants to be a first class Eric Twynam. That is it. That's how it works. When man realises himself - many people put on facades, they try to be what they are not and those people are worshipped, but when a man really wants to be himself and act himself, what he is, he is condemned. That's how our little minds work. Because after all, the object, any object is only a projection of our minds. Nothing else. Therefore we say 'Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder' and if that is the case, if beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, then ugliness also must lie in the eye of the beholder. You just can't have it one way. If you find me to be ugly, the ugliness is first yours and then you will see me to be ugly and not before. You see. If you find me to be hateful, then I'm sure the hatred is in you first, for in order for you to know that I am hateful. And that is why the old saying "It takes a thief to catch a thief". You see. How simple these things are; so simple but we have to understand the depths. Then everything in life can be interpreted in its deepest value. The simplest thing can be interpreted with deep value. And that is what we are aiming at, that as our awareness expands, we can take the smallest, minutest little thing and find a whole world of meaning in it. Like that. Next. Questioner. Guruji, I've seen pictures of a group of people meditating under a small pyramid made of metal rods. Does this help meditation? Gururaj. I don't know, ask Ted Partridge. (Gururaj laughs)
10. UK 80- 38 Ted. Well, I have built one and it has helped, I think. Unfortunately I built it to the wrong dimensions and it’s not as powerful as it should be. Gururaj. No, well, well it has been - sorry Ted, we're having fun you know that - well, I read in some book some while ago that if a little pyramid and this was sold in shops, if a pyramid is made in the proper dimensions, you can put a blade in there over night and it will come out sharpened. So it has you know a spiritual force, an energetic force because of its very design, it draws certain energies and that is very true. I had the opportunity of meditating in the pyramids in Egypt, Ghizah, and I've had some wonderful experiences there. It was very good. I spoke about this before. I think you have a tape, Keith, in nineteen seventy six I spoke about it and the only person that was shocked was my guide that took me around showing me Cairo. So I went into this chamber and I thought let me meditate. This fellow nearly jumped out of his skin, I believe he tells me, because I just lifted up. I went into meditation and I levitated. And he just couldn't believe. He was so frightened. He was white as a ghost when I came down. So, so, so there is something in that. There is something in that very shape but remember that the pyramid is placed so strategically at a particular spot on this earth wh ereby it could draw those energies. I've been told that if you multiply the height by the width - would be something like that, - I can't remember the details - that it would be the exact distance from the earth to the sun. It is very, very mathematically worked out and the Egyptians did not do that. This is something that goes back to the Atlantean era. But now building a pyramid at home in its proper proportion and meditating in it, is not going to help at all. Right. But experiment, why not have some fun? If you have fun with your dogs why not with a pyramid? Yeah. It’s good. It’s good. Have some fun and oh yes. Nice. Nothing wrong. Nothing wrong. But if it is placed in such way perhaps at some such spot and you get some energetic currents striking your head, don't blame me. (General laughter). I rather sit in my shrine or my room or my wherever and I do my meditation. I rather do that. Good to experiment. Good to experiment but many experiments can be dangerous. Could be. We don't know yet. I don't know because I have never meditated in a home-made pyramid. Yes, you can experiment with things. Why not try experimenting with cyanide? (General laughter) Yes and some people can be strong enough - you know I read in some book where a chap went to his guru in India, I think it was Ram Dass, the American Alpert or some name that took the name of Ram Dass, he went to India and he started discussing drugs with his guru. He was a drug-taker you know before he became Ram Dass. And Ram Dass gave his guru so much drugs you know and the guru just swallowed it and nothing happened to him. Nothing at all and yet it was said in the book that there was enough drug there that was taken by the guru to kill off ten people instantly. Ye s. You see the force, the power, the strength that could be there. If I should take a tot of scotch, one sneeze and all the
11. UK 80- 38 alcohol is gone. You see. Depending on your strength, depending on what kind of experiments you want to do. Then you reach a time when you don't want to experiment anymore, you're beyond that. So about pyramids, I don't know. I must experiment on that. Good. Right. So shall we end now? Questioner. Half an hour's break, half an hour's break? Gururaj. It’s up to you entirely. I don't know what you feel like. .... so that is one of the reasons why he is leaving. And I wish to thank him and Randy as well very, very much for looking after things so, so capably and so very well. He's a brave young man, tons of ability, great spiritual force. The first time I met Hugh was at a Course in Hayes and I saw such a beautiful spark in him. He had long hair that time. So then I said "Hugh, you cut your hair". And the very afternoon he turned up with his hair so beautifully trimmed. (General laughter). He's a great guy, highly intelligent, brilliant, spiritual force and I do pray that may the spirituality and the intelligence he has in him be directed in good ways, for good causes, so that the world and others could be benefited by it as well as he could be benefited himself. There is one danger that I tell all young men about, that never, never become the handle of an axe, become the axe and conquer the world. So it is with sadness and joy that some of us might not see Hugh, people living up country and that, because he's leaving in November. We wish him all the best of luck. There's no luck of course you know - all the best of everything, you know, which is there. Luck is just a word which is used that explains nothing. The best wishes and the Lord's mercy so that, and His Grace of course, to show Hugh the right path in life for himself and for others. For I know one thing that he will always dedicate himself to the service of others. He's done a wonderful job in England through very, very trying times and it is very much appreciated. So Hugh and Randy, I wish to thank you and I'm sure you will agree with me when I say that I thank you on behalf of us all. Thank you again. (Applause). I'll see you back in twenty minutes but nevertheless there won't be a Satsang tomorrow. So, after breakfast everyone is leaving, so if I do not see you, it has been so beautiful being with you all again. And when I come next Summer, we wish to have a much bigger crowd and there are a lot of things will be done and we have such an enthusiastic committee and of course very, very brilliant enthusiastic co-ordinator, John there. And you will see, you will
12. UK 80- 38 see that where there is real spiritual force, that force can never die. Never die. Never, never die. It will forever perpetuate itself in greater and greater glory and in greater and greater receptivity. Thumbs up. END
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