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1. UK 80-7 Gururaj. There is one little regret I have and it is this, that with each and every one of you I would like to spend an hour, just personally together. It would be nice. But it is physically impossible. Although I'm one with you in spirit, we know that, and you are one with me in spirit but I've heard a few complaints that Guruji has no time to spend time with me alone. Now if I do that for one, I have to do that for all and the time is just not there. I come down to the lecture hall and frankly I go nowhere except into my room and I sit at the desk doing a lot of paper-work. But I need a few helpers around me like Savita for example, of whom I have to ask questions all the time, "What is this?", "What is that?", "What is that?" I need the National Administrator around with me as much as possible. Sometimes I can't find him (Gururaj laughs) and then I have Raman who is such a serviceful person that if there is any errand or this or that and you know how he runs around the whole day from morning till night. So if it was physically possible, believe you me I would like to spend private time with each and everyone of you. But remember one thing, these Satsangs, when we are together for two hours a day, there is so much imparted, not only the talks, but there is something here that goes beyond the talks. There is a flow of a particular kind of energy, a spiritual energy, you can call it - which has to reach its mark and that is where the real communion between you and I take place. It's nice to sit down together and talk about the weather, or Auntie Jane who had a headache last week - it’s nice, it’s fine, I would enjoy that - I love, I love, I love. But now, if it's a physical impossibility, how can I do it? For example there are one hundred and fifty/one hundred and sixty people here. Now you time that by one hour, one hundred and fifty hours. You see if Courses could be organised extending over a period of three months - you all come and live with me for three months - I'm sure - I mean my personal experience, my own guru - it took eight months - I was living in the Ashram and there were only about fifty or sixty people in the Ashram and it took me eight months just to say hello to him. And it’s jus t, that's how it works - but I'm sure you all understand. Okay. Fine. Questions. This is gone a bit soft. Okay. Wow. Questioner. Guruji, you have mentioned on two occasions that even an Avatar can take up to thirty years to realise who he is and yet you have also said that an Avatar is born Karma free. So without this encumbrance, why does it take him so lo ng? Gururaj. Now, I'm sure you might have listened to previous tapes, where I have said that from the vastness of the universe, from the area of unlimitlessness, the totality what this universe represents, from there comes that force and energy to consolidate itself or bring itself down to our level, which is a very limited level. Now from the finest relative, where the Avatar resides, in other words, the totality at its finest level of this universe, he has to, he can't jump down into a limited form. It is also a matter of progression where even an Avatar has to obey natural laws. And so he goes through

2. UK 80-7 these various stratas, from the very, very subtle to the grossest strata and a limited strata of man. Good. Now going through all this - of course in our time, the way we measure time in a linear fashion, it would sound like millions of years but for that energy, that force, it is a flicker of a second, because the lifetime of this universe is only a flicker of a second from that dimension. So having passed through all these things and coming into a limited body, and coming to the area of our limitations, he having gone through all these various stratas, naturally has to flower again - and that very flowering, that very experiences that he gains. Now one person aspiring on the path, might need millions of lifetimes to know the Divinity within him but the Avatar being Divine himself does not require so long. When a person takes on a limited form, he too has to grow from infancy to childhood and then adolescence and manhood and this also requires according to the laws of nature, the opening up of consciousness. Now this would take time in our terms, for him to realise who he really is. A person might be a mathematical genius - why is that not expressed when he is a little baby. So he has the seed of that genius within him, be it either in music or art or whatever sphere, poetry. And the same law applies to the Avatar as well, whereby being bound and limited by the laws of nature, he too ha s to open up and by opening up, he too has to realise his full potential and in realising that, he knows who he is. So, therefore, this time is totally necessary. And if we study the history of mankind, all these great Avatars, you will find that this has been the process. It is inevitable and inescapable. Now in this process what does the Avatar find out about himself? He finds out that he is the universe. He is the manifestation of the Manifestor. You all know the meaning of the root, the etymological route of universe. ‘Uni’ means one and versus is the past participle of ‘Vetera’, which means to turn. So this he finds out that he is the one universe turning, turning, turning around and in this very motion, he recognises all the various names and forms that man applies to things. You take a necklace or earrings or whatever ornaments people wear and if they are gold and if they are smelted down, what would they be, just gold. Fine. So in the process of things, name and form is added, that these are earrings and this is a necklace and this is a bracelet and this is an anklet. But yet the essence of it is gold, same gold to which different names and forms are applied. Now the Avatar, what he has to realise when he opens himself to total awareness, is this, that he goes beyond name and form and sees the essence of things, the gold and he finds that he is the gold, he is the essence. And that is the culmination to which he opens up to and when he opens up to that, then really his teaching begins. Do you know that Christ captured within three years what an ordinary human being could not do in three hundred years? Look at that force; look at that energy that's involved, an inexhaustible energy so that even after two thousand years that energy is still permeating minds and souls of men. It is still there. Look how much was generated and why, because he is energy himself, which is indestructible. Therefore that same energy will persist but as time goes on and

3. UK 80-7 when a consolidation or a concentration of that energy is required, a human form would take place again. A form would come in flesh and blood so that the very same old teachings are brought forth in a different light, in a different manner so that people of those times would be able to understand. Now man's mind is also in a process of evolution. This world is not going to be the same world in a hundred years time. There will be many changes where man's mind has expanded more and there will be greater technological progress made. So now to meet up with that, to meet up with that, over a period of - I told you how many years its going to take - now with this technological process, that same energy will have to condense itself again to meet the demands of man. And that is why these Incarnations or the Avatars come again and again and again. Really speaking they do not come. They're always there and not only on this little speck of dust we call earth but always there, everywhere. The Avatar exists simultaneously everywhere, for the Avatar really is pure consciousness. And yet being pure consciousness, it has the power to limit itself. If you're a High School Teacher, it is very easy for you to teach in a primary school because you have gone though all those experiences. So here the Avatar, the Master of the universe and not only the Master of the universe but the universe itself, comes down to this limited self and limits himself as you and I with all the so-called miseries and sufferings, and love and - all the emotions. He limits himself. But behind the apparent limitation you see, is that consciousness, that pure consciousness. So if you dive into that pure consciousness, what will happen to you, is your consciousness will also become purer. Sometimes you dip in the water and one dip might not be enough, so you keep on dipping and dipping and dipping. It's like the old story of dyeing a piece of cloth, you got to dye it, throw it in the dye, take it out, dry it, throw it in the dye, take it out until the dye sticks, I am quoting a colleague (General laughter) - so-called, (Gururaj laughs) oh yes - he loves everyone. (General laughter). We love the right-doer just as much as the wrongdoer. We might not like the action but we love the doer for in that doer too resides Divinity, that pure consciousness is there. So as we dip and dip and dip through our meditational and spiritual practices, we assume and we gather unto ourselves a purer and purer consciousness, a greater and greater awakening and that awakening means we are getting out of the sleep that we are in. So what a job the Avatar has, what a job he has? Now to us it might seem a job, but to him it's no job at all because he goes nowhere, he comes from nowhere, he just is. And yet he confines himself to relativity, to help that which is relative. Now I am sure you all know the meaning of relativity. Relativity basically means in relation to, in relation to. Now we take the case of a son. Right. Now I am a father to my son but I am a son to my father, right. It's in relation. Take London, the city of London, it could be north, south, east, west depending where you are. If you are in Bombay,

4. UK 80-7 then London would be to the west. If you are in New York, then London would be to the east. You see. So it's all a question of relationship. Now the Avatar in his teachings, he relates, limiting himself, he dwells in all the spheres of these relationships. So he, having the ability to stand anywhere, can relate himself simultaneously in his relationships because he is north, south, east and west. Now that is the difference between a self-realised man and an Incarnation. Good. Now having assumed the form of relativity, he is still established in self. Because after having this bath, as we always say, he knows the purity of his inner self, he realises that he is pure consciousness, he is all consciousness. But having achieved the pure consciousness, he can go down to lower grades and behave totally ordinary. Now that is what the Avatar teaches, that be established in self. He talks from experience because he is experience itself. That's what he teaches, be established in self and then act. So that every action performed is non-binding. He has come without karma, unbound, free but by his own volition has he taken on the limitations and yet within the limitations he is totally free. The Avatar is a law unto himself and no man can judge him. You cannot judge him by the way he looks, by the way he acts because he is free, unbound. Being established in self, he can display anger, throw over the money tables in the temples, pick up a whip, be angry with his disciples. He can do all that and he can suffer his very friends. Let’s take the example of Jesus. His twelve disciples, when he was caught by the Romans, one disciple denied him. The other disciple gave him away. The one disciple denied him three times, the other disciple gave away his location and ten of them ran away. Do you see? Now you might say the Avatar is so powerful, so powerful, why must this happen? But he has to show that human-ness and go through all the human trials and troubles because he has made himself like you and I. And that is why he could impart that impulse and the impartation of that impulse is so powerful that it still persists unto today. You see. So therefore even with gurus like me, you don't need to be in my presence or in my room. We gather here together and, fine, unless there's something really, really urgent and really requires personal attention. Then what about this great impulse that goes on and on and on for centuries and thousands and thousands of years. You see. So when the Avatar, according to the Questioner, when the Avatar takes so many years really to know who he is and even in the process of knowing, he is not bound by karma. Whatever he does is like water on a duck's back, it rolls away. Because as I said, he is a law unto himself. Take the life of Krishna, he used to frolic around in the gardens of Brindaban with all his Gopis - he must have had a nice time (General laughter). Just imagine sixteen thousand and eight wives, how did he reach them all, I don't know. (Gururaj laughs). Nevertheless, many people regard this to be symbolism, so whatever it is (General laughter) - but I personally would not like to have a symbolic wife (Gururaj laughs). She has to be real like me flesh and blood and yet in that relationship to be like a lotus, like Kummel, lotus, pure and not dirtied by the mud. Fine.

5. UK 80-7 So you see the Avatar is unique if that word can be used. There is no other superlative. He does what he likes. He roams around, he frolics with his Gopis in Brindaban. Yes. Who is to judge such a man? If I think of Jesus or Krishna, I can only think of them in the terms of God, being the totality of the universe, being the primal manifestation of the Manifestor, being the personalisation of the Impersonal God. I can only think of them as Gods coming to earth from time to time. Now this relationship has to be understood and it has to be understood in depth because once this is understood through one's ideal, then the process becomes much, much more smoother to become that ideal. And you are not becoming one with the physical self of the ideal, but you are merging your consciousness into his consciousness. Now in reality, from the absolute point of view, there is no separation at all, there is no merging at all because He is all. But from the point of relativity and from the point of the limitations created by us, we require the opening, we require sufficient purity to merge. Now that comes through a certain amount of cognition and the major portion of it comes through realisation. Experiential value it has and not just intellectual value. And yet the intellect too becomes purified because with that purification, one realises how to evaluate because the primary function of the intellect is to weigh, weigh the pros and cons. .... a solution and with that experiential value, experience gained through meditation and spiritual practices, the intellect becomes purer so that it filters through into daily practical living. So everything in the human system is of great value. You have to draw on that which is beyond and drawing from that which is beyond, one uses it through the mind and intellect and body to its fullest value and the purity shines through so, so beautifully that whatever you do, is good. Now when I said good, I am not measuring goodness in the normal forms of ethics and morality. It's a different dimension I am talking about. And that dimension of goodness must go hand and hand with the norms of society. Now the norms of society differ from place to place and country to country. For example monogamy is moral in the Western countries, while in Tibet and other countries polygamy is not regarded to be bad. So it is all a question of relativity, what relates to what, because of what and because of what circumstances and with various cultures, there are various structures. So if you remain within your structure, you are regarded to be moral and good. But if you move away from one culture to another culture and adhere to your previous structure, then you are immoral. You see. So these laws are man made laws for the stability of society as I always say but the good that I am talking about, the morality that I am talking about, is that purity of heart. For it is only the pure of heart that enters the Kingdom of God. That is the goodness that I am talking about, not the outward actions. I have in my work come across all kinds of people. I have come across alcoholics and drug addicts and prostitutes, you name them, and yet I have found some of them to be very highly evolved. I found some of them very highly evolved. Let me tell you a little story.

6. UK 80-7 One lady phones me on day and she tells me "Please could I come and see you or would you come and see me”. I say "Fine, your home is on my way and I'll pop in." So she says "My husband has become an alcoholic and because of that, I mean, I have kept it quiet, you know, to show a face to society. I have kept it quiet but now I just can't bear it any more". He had a lovely outfitting business - do you call it the same here - clothing and shoes - lovely outfitting business and he lost it all. His business was gone and he was in deep debt. His entire family was breaking up. The children did not love the father any more, the children were adolescents, growing up and they really can't think what is father doing. The wife was unhappy. The food was getting less and less in the house and she asks me what to do. I said "Let us - if I preach to your husband, it's not going to help. It doesn't work that way." So meanwhile at that time, I belonged to a certain society that was putting up a school, a private vernacular school. Now this man had one talent which I saw displayed in his diningroom, he could make wonderful plaster casts with moulds. So I says "Look, I'll come and see your husband this evening or tomorrow" or something like that. And meanwhile we were building a school and of course being a charitable organisation we needed money. So I went to see this man and I says "Brother, you have so much talent and would you please help us." So I took to him a lovely statuette of Shiva and Parvati, you know those Hindu Gods and Goddesses. "Can you produce five hundred of these for me?" I was the General Secretary of that organisation. I have always been doing social work even while I was in business. I said "Can you five hundred of this for me?" So he says "Yes, I can do it." He was a bit hesitant at the moment. I says "Look, we will give you ten pounds each, that's five thousand pounds you can make and as soon as you finish the work, the cash is there." So I took this idea to the organisation. I said here is a way of raising money for the school, to build the school. Fine. And everyone agreed, brilliant idea, because this was a really beautiful piece of work. I still have one of them in our office in Capetown. You have seen that. Yah. Right. Good. So we can easily get twenty- five pounds each and meanwhile it is being done for us. So that was accepted. And I went back to him and I said right, start. Do you need some advance cash to buy Plaster of Paris?" And when it’s beautifully painted up, it’s really, really nice, really nice. When we have an Ashram, we will have some of those displayed, so I'll bring them over. Right. Fine. So he started making that. Now I gave him a certain chant on Shiva because he was doing this Shiva thing - Shiva and Parvati. So every evening, the whole family gathered in the back room, the four children, the husband and the wife and they started making these plaster casts. Good. And as they were making, the whole family was chanting, 'Aum Shiva Namaha, Aum Shiva Namaha', like that. The whole family was chanting and in doing this chant, this family came together. They were working

7. UK 80-7 together, they came together. And this fellow, without telling him to stop drinking, he just stopped. And up to today he is still a Teetotaller and this was many years ago - I am talking about twenty years ago now. You see. You see how it works, the practicality of life and then of course he made all these plaster casts, - his family got together, he got about five thousand pounds - we had to order more - actually, we ran short and he got about five thousand/six thousand pounds which squared up his debts and with the other extra money he could start another little business. So the family is very well and fine and they are all happy. As a matter of fact the children are all married now. Do you see, do you see how the power of Divinity could descend? Oh but to finish the story. In the society I said "You go around to the people that could give twenty five pounds but the big boys you leave to me" (Gururaj laughs). I do remember. I'm side tracking the talk, nevertheless it's quiet interesting how things can work. What I am trying to point ou t to you is, you can make things work. So I went to one man who is worth very, very much. So I said "Well this is for you. We don't want charity, you know it is a charitable organisation, but we want to give you something in return and this is something really beautiful". So he wrote out a cheque of fifty pounds. So I had a look at it, tore it up - "Thank you very much Mr. So and So" and I started walking out. So he ran behind me, to the garden gate and he said "No, no you can't go like that. Look you never even had a cup of tea, this, that, no, no you just can't". So I says "Look, you have insulted me really by writing a cheque of fifty pounds when I know what you are worth". Ah! (General laughter) And the same thing is going to happen here in BMS. Just you wait, just you people wait, just you wait until I start acting. So of course I left. I had a nice cup of tea and biscuits and cakes and what have you. And I left with a cheque of ten thousand. And like that it happened, and many things - and we built up a school which is worth seventy thousand pounds. It's nice. Good. So you see, so you see there is this living force. There is this pure consciousness, there is this ever-existing eternal Divinity and it is up to us to activate it. Now look at in this case where a whole family is brought together or else it would have broken to pieces, the man's debts were paid, the society benefited, the children got their vernacular, is getting their vernacular education. Look at the far-reaching implications. Look at all the benefits that have accrued. So therefore when we talk of action, let our action be such that it benefits all, that it benefits everyone. So that is how the Avatar acts. He acts in such a manner that apparently it might seem that this is wrong but there are long term benefits to all the actions of the Avatar. And this is so apparent in the life of Krishna and Christ and Buddha. And ten thousands of years have gone by and yet that force is still acting for the benefit of millions of people throughout the world. So even through the limited body, even through that limitation, he is emanating so much force that you could

8. UK 80-7 be thousands of miles away, you can be thousands of miles away and yet feel the benefits of an Avatar. Okay. So simple. Ah time went so fast, do you want another question? I feel like talking. That's a good idea. Our National Leader of Holland. Questioner. Dearest Guruji, what should we do when we find Gururaj. I can't hear if my mouth is occupied. (General laughter) Yes, love. Questioner. (Cont'd). Dearest Guruji, what should we do when we find ourselves in negative situations which we have a duty to be in, for example when our relatives or our friends feel threatened by or resent or at least don't understand the changes that they see in us and in our lifestyles as a result of our spiritual growth? Gururaj. Good. Lovely. Lovely. If there are changes, pardon, if there are changes in your lifestyle for betterment and your friends resent it, perhaps because of envy, then do not neglect that friend or ignore the friend but ignore the envy and the resentment. Because by ignoring the friend, you are doing no service to the friend and by serving the friend, you are serving yourself. And it is because of that very resentment and envy that will change you more. It will change you more and it will make you more stronger in your resolve to do your spiritual practices and progress more. So that friend who is resentful is God sent, bless his good soul. Yeah. You see. Because wherever there is a greater resistance, there will be a greater push. So all resistances are to be welcomed, are to be welcomed, because the more the resistance there is, the harder you are going to push and the harder you push, the greater the results are going to be for you. So resent the resentment but not the resentor. Resent the resentment but not the resentor. And we know that those that are filled with envy and resentment, are misguided. So if we find a friend who is misguided, what is our dharma, what is our duty, it is to move that person away and by giving proper explanation and more than explanation, that deep love. Okay, hate me, resent what I do, but I love you. Demonstrate that not only by words but by deeds and you will find the resentment dwindling away. You know I worked for example, you know I thought when I was in business, problems and this that and when I chucked up business and got this started, I thought “Ah, it's going to be so nice and smooth you know". But I know what it is. (Gururaj laughs) So the greater the opposition, the greater the push, the greater the progress. So with such people we show love, even more

9. UK 80-7 love, we go out of our way. Forget the resentment. Regard it as a quirk of that person's mind. Regard it that the person has less understanding than you have. But the person is good, never forget that. The person is good even if he has envy or resentment, the person is basically good, just a bit of dust on the surface. Help to blow it off with love. Help to blow that dust off with love and not only in words but in deeds. That is why all the Scriptures say over and over again, 'They slap you on one cheek, you give the other cheek.' What does it mean? It means you are showing love. It means that you think you are wronging me, but no I don't take it as a wrong, I don't take your resentment resentfully. So I give you the other cheek. Resent me more. But I love you. And try if you can love me too. You slip that in slowly, yes, and real sincere love to even any enemy we have in the world, will change that enemy, oh definitely so. It will change the heart of the enemy because that force that you are emanating by thought and deed strikes home, strikes at the very essence of that person's being and you stir up the very essence of that person's being. And that very essence is love itself. So here love intermingles with love, you see. So do not be afraid of any resentment. Do not. These things come on the path. There could be no roses without thorns. They are there but the thorns are lovely. They are good. If I pick up a rose and the thorn pricks me, I will become more conscious of the beauty of that rose, yes, because I will think more about the rose, because of that prick. Do you see how it works? So everything can be turned into a thing of beauty. The worst adversity in life can be turned into an opportunity. The greatest hatreds could be turned into love. And that is how, that is how we improve ourselves and the environment. That is how we progress through life. That is how greater harmony is created within us or rather, descends upon us and life becomes beautiful, goodly and godly. Do good, be good. So simple. Ah. Right. Don't know what we need BMS for? Be good, do good, that's all. But of course all of us being children, we have to be taught, oh yes, and we need organisations to teach us. Yeah. Okay, I think that's enough. END


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