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United States 77-24

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1. U S 77 - 24 AMRIT: Very. It's really lik e coming home. Well, in fact, this is home. This is my country, even though I've been living in England for about two and a half years now. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] AMRIT: I'm sorry? Oh, he is? Guruji? Oh, lovely. GURURAJ: Lovely, smiling faces. [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER] VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] AMRIT: Okay. So I was explaining. This is truly like coming home, though for the last two years England has been home. It was here that I met my wife Margaritte. Right her e. VOICE: [From?] England. AMRIT: Some of you don't... [APPLAUSE] MARGARITTE: It's a great joy to be back in Las Vegas. When we first came here last December, when we returned to England we told the people there that it's the most spiritual group o f people we'd ever met. And who believed it Las Vegas? [LAUGHTER] AMRIT: This is true. A lot of shocked...you can see a lot of shocked faces when we tell them that half the American Meditation Society is located in Las Vegas. [LAUGHTER] Okay. No w, I met my wife Margaritte in 1975 while I was doing the lecture tour in Las Vegas. And shortly after we met she showed me a picture of the gentleman who was sitting in his garden reading a book, wearing a suit, and the short hair and no beard. And he s aid...and she said, "This is Gururaj." And then I looked. And this is not what I expected at all. I expected a beard and so forth. And I took one look at the photograph, and there are things that do happen like this to people in their lives, just one l ook and I knew that this is the teacher I was born to work with. And so having done so I sat

2. U S 77 - 24 down and wrote a letter to Gururaj. And he wrote a letter back. And a correspondence started, which led [????] to Margaritte and I being married, and to starting to work in the West. First in England in April and May of 1975. This is when we started what's called The British Meditation Society. Now, for those of you who are not meditators, the organization that you heard Tom mention, The International Organization For Spiritual Unfoldment, is the international organization founded by Gururaj in February, oh, I'm sorry, it would have been the summer of about 1975. GURURAJ: Somewhere there. AMRIT: Somewhere in there. Can't be too sure about exactly when these t hings started. But in the summer of 1975. And each of the local chapters for each local country is given the name Meditation Society with the name of the country in front. So American Meditation Society, British Meditation Society, Danish Meditation Soc iety and so on. Now, the organization which Gururaj founded exists basically for, we could say, two or three purposes. First of all to provide very high quality meditation practices for people. Meditation practices which are designed to meet their deep i ndividual needs. Now, if there is anything which is obvious about human beings is that they're all highly individual. And just as each person requires an individual diet, an individual lifestyle, an individual pattern of sleeping and so forth, so also peo ple require meditation practices which meet their deep individual needs. And one of the fundamental purposes of the American Meditation Society and I.F.S.U. is to provide these practices which are designed personally for each meditator by Gururaj. Okay. Also children's techniques, too. Now, secondly, of course, there's a philosophy which goes, which we could say goes along with the practices, which one needn't accept. There's nothing that one has to believe or accept to be involved in doing the A.M.S. pr actices, but the philosophy is there. It's a universal philosophy. Not based or connected on any one religion or any one philosophical system, but attempting as much as possible to be a universal philosophy. I wish we had one of our symbols here. Is th ere one available here, Tom? TOM: Not on the premises. Sorry. AMRIT: Not on the premises, okay. Perhaps just to give you an idea of what the philosophy is that underlies these practices I can just describe the symbol to you. You will see it if you start meditating. It's a large circular disk, about so

3. U S 77 - 24 big. It ha s a blue background and located at the center of the disk is a flame, a large flame. Now, this flame represents the inner spiritual core of the human being. You could call it the superconscious mind, if you wanted to use a psychological name. You could call it the Kingdom of Heaven within, if you wanted to use a religious name. But whatever you want to call it, this is like the real core of the human being. This aspect of the human being is a virtually unlimited source of a certain kind of intelligence , which we could call intuition, some could call it spiritual intuition. Secondly, there is a certain reservoir, we could say, is a certain kind of energy which we could call the spiritual or subtle energy. And thirdly, a source of universal... a certain kind of love which we could call universal love or ananda. This is the kind of love that the great spiritual teachers since the beginning of time has spoken about. The kind of love which is not limited just t o one or to a number of individuals. The kin d of love which has its own, you could say, come from its own fullness. It's like a well which is overflowing because of its very fullness. And the waves that come from the well strike against anything or everything that they happen to come into contact w ith. So this we call universal love. So this central flame represents that unlimited reservoir of love, intelligence and energy that lies at the core of every human being. And this is shared by all human beings whatever their culture, their religious bac kground, wherever they come from, whatever experiences they have had in life, and so on. Now, surrounding the central flame there are a series of disks, each of which represents one of the world's major religions: Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, the Vedi c tradition, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism, Islam, and even one disk called the eternal circle which represents all those religions and spiritual philosophies which are not specifically represented by the other eight symbols that I mentioned. So t his would include more personal philosophies or spiritual philosophies that a person might have not related to any of the orthodox religions or philosophies. So the basic meaning of this symbol is that if somehow human beings were to make contact with tha t central flame, which is done through meditation, and could integrate those qualities into their life, then all the other, it would be immediately understood by al l the people belonging to different religious traditions that they could exist in harmony wi th each other. Not just a tolerance, but a kind of creative harmony. And this is represented by five golden cords which connect together each of the disks representing each of the specific religious traditions. So this basically describes the nature of our organization. We have organization now...organizations existing in about ten or twelve countries of the world. And we started in this country last December and January when Margaritte and I flew here and gave the first course, I think, in Los Angele s and Las Vegas and one in San Francisco. And then everything just took off from that place. So one more word before I turn the meeting over to you and to Gururaj for the evening. The, I should say, the person just been worried about the name Gururaj Ana nda Yogi. Those of you who are not acquainted with Sanskrit terms, a guru is simply a spiritual teacher. The word "ananda" refers to this quality which we call universal love, which is probably the most important of those three

4. U S 77 - 24 qualities of the inner spi rit which we talked about. And finally the word "yogi" refers to one who has achieved union, a profound inner union, with the personality, the conscious mind, and this inner universal source which we talked about, represented by the flame in our symbol. So Gururaj, spiritual teacher, whose nature is universal love. And at the same time who has achieved union with that inner source that we've been talking about. Now, the nature of the meeting tonight will be a question and answer session. This is called a satsang, which means communing together for the purpose of discovering truth. And you therefore are not only welcome but encouraged to ask questions tonight to probe deeply into truth. And truth can be represented from many different angles. So there could be as many questions as there are people in the audience. And also as many answers as there are people in the audience. So having said that, let me then turn the meeting over to us as a whole, to you in the audience, to us and to Gururaj, and you c an begin asking your questions. [APPLAUSE] GURURAJ: I think it would be a good idea... can you hear me? VOICES: No. Yes. GURURAJ: Why does man have to depend upon mechanical devices? [LAUGHTER] There are a lot of meditators here and I think it w ould be a good idea to meditate for a few moments. And those that have not started meditating yet, they can sit back, relax, and enjoy the vibrations. Shall we? [TAPE STOPS AS GROUP MEDITATES] Good. Fine. As Amrit intimated, I have not come to lecture to you. That would be very easy to do. I would rather prefer a communication with you where the minds and the hearts could become one, and where there is a flow in the search of knowledge and wisdom. So I would like someone to start off the meeting with a question. And of course your questions would be answered according to the level of the question. Who would like to...? VOICE: How is the soul developed? GURURAJ: Beautiful question. How is the soul developed? Firstly, we have to understand what w e mean by development. And secondly, we have to understand what is meant by the soul. Now, before we go into details, let me tell you that the soul, or the spirit within man, does not require development. The spirit within man if forever developed eter nal. Therefore, our foundation is called the Foundation For Spiritual Unfoldment, meaning that the already developed,

5. U S 77 - 24 full, mature, total, infinite, eternal, immortal soul in man requires unfolding. Good. Now, this soul has to be unfolded fo r the purpos e.... Now, the question would be, why must the soul be unfolded? The purpose of unfolding the soul is to draw from deep within ourselves the light of that spirit. Now, I know I don't need to explain lights to people of Las Vegas. [LAUGHTER] I have nev er seen... [LAUGHTER] My host and hostess, [Esti?] and Herb, they're all very well known to you, took me for a little drive last night. And I've never seen so many lights in all my travels throughout the world. Good. Fine. Those lig hts do reflect upo n people's lives. Many faces here are so so beautifully lit up, many hearts are so lit up, so that even from a distance the flower grows and blossoms and its fragrance is felt. That is the purpose of light. That is the purpose of spiritual light which w e are trying to unfold, so that we live as integrated human beings. Now, every human being has three aspects to himself: the physical, mental, and the spiritual. And all problems in life begin when the three aspects of man is not functioning in harmony. M an does not function as a total entity. Man is so fragmented. And in this fragmentation the value of spiritual light is dispersed. So when through spiritual practices and meditation when a person becomes more and more integrated, he allows that spiritual light to be properly focused. And in the focusing of light the brightness of life, the joy of life is experienced. Good. Now, the other question would be that if the spirit is eternal and immortal, forever blissful and full of light, where has th is darkn ess come from? Why does it require unfolding? Now, if we could use an analogy, let us use the analogy of one of your light bulbs down the road [SOUND OF SOMETHING HITTING THE FLOOR?] and this light bulb is covered with so many veils. Now, through spirit ual practices as we remove veil after veil, more and more light shines through. And when, finally, all the veils are removed, the light shines in its totality. Now, that is what we are trying to achieve in our spir itual practices; whereby we allow the li ght within us to shine to its fullest capacity and to its fullest value. Good. Now, this can be done by bringing about self integration within us. Self integration is self realization. Self realization can also be equated with God realization. Now dur ing the practices of meditation when you dive deep within yourself, you are doing what the Bible would say, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven within, and all else shall be added unto thee." Now, the meditational process is such that very, very systemat ically we dive deep down within ourselves and draw upon that light so that our minds and our bodies could be lightened. And in this process the mind and body becomes permeated with this light. Good. Now when this starts happening, we find a greater harmo ny taking place within us. And when this harmony is within us, then naturally we become harmonious with the environment. Every person emanates all the time the value of his personal evolution. The more highly evolved the man, the more the light of the s oul or the spirit shines forth. So when we

6. U S 77 - 24 start bathing in this light we do feel the joy and the bliss for which we are born. Every human being in this world has that inherent within him. And it is his birthright to experience joy and happiness. But now if everything is dependent upon this infinite quality which is within us, where does all the darkness come from? That has always been the eternal question. And philosophers throughout the ages have been mulling over this question. Now, if the creato r is symbolized as the spirit which is light, then why should light create darkness? That is the question. This could only be answered in parable form, or perhaps by analogy. Because all of you will know that the human mind is limited. And the human mi nd is finite, while we are trying to comprehend with the mind that which is infinite, and that becomes an impossibility. Although the human mind could not intellectualize or analyze or rationalize, one can experience that spiritual quality that lies within man. Now, to use an analogy, it is because of the sun that shines it draws vapor up into the sky. The vapor forms into a cloud, and the cloud or clouds obscures the sun, and we find darkness beneath. So the sun that is the cause of the light is also the cause of the darkness. But that darkness can only be comprehended when we are down here. But when you fly in the airplane above the clouds, you see the light where it is not obscured at all. So what we are doing is removing the clouds, the clouds of ig norance, that causes this darkness. Now, from the relative point of view you would find that the soul requires unfoldment by removing the darkness of the clouds. But from the absolute point of view the sun is forever effulgent. So there are many ways, ma ny ways, to unfold ourselves. If there are four thousand million people on this planet, then there are four thousand million ways to find this light. And every man has to find this light for himself. No one can evolv e you, you have to evolve yourself. A guru can only guide you on the path. If you are stumbling through a dark forest, if there is a person that knows the way, he has gone through it and has a lantern, he shows, he sheds some light on the path. But the walking to reach the goal has to be do ne by you. So the soul is forever pure, forever unfolded, forever filled with light. But with our relative mind, and the mind is very limited, we see darkness only. Like is said by scientists that man uses less that ten percent of his mind, the conscio us mind, while ninety, over ninety, percent of the mind is dormant. So through the process of meditation and spiritual practices, we unfathom the dormant layers of the mind, where we go deeper and deeper to its various subtler levels. And by going to its subtler levels we experience an expansion of awareness where our perception becomes deeper. And as our perception deepens, more and more light shines through. We are removing the veils. The extent of the mind is to the extent of the entire universe. A nd the mind is capable of embracing in awareness the entire universe. Good. The

7. U S 77 - 24 limitations are there because we are only using a very small fraction of the mind. (You understand that, love?) We are using only a small fraction of the mind. Now, meditation is a means whereby we can take that which is limited to its limitless value. Now, with personalized meditation what also happens is this that you not only experience greater awareness where we can become identified not only with our family , but also with our society, with our country, with this little planet, speck of dust, until we reach, until we reach the entirety of the universe. So a human being having Divinity within him is capable of being aware of this. But this awareness can only have its fullest value if at the same time there is an expansion of the heart. Now, by heart I do not mean this little organ there. Sometimes you don't even need this little organ. You can live by sheer willpower [laughter]. Fine. So as one unfolds the spirit within man, the heart also expands. Now, today we know in this technological age man is orientated more to the intellect, mind development. And we also know that with technology a lot of harm can be brought about. And this has been demonstrated by many many of the discoveries that have been made that has been destructive. But now with the expansion of awareness if the heart also expands, then the heart, because [in...?] [if?] the nature of its expansion is love, it would have a controlling factor on the expansion of the mind. So when mind and heart join hands the integration takes place. But that is not the end. With the expanded heart which...and it's been...and expanded heart also means a purified heart. Where the expansion takes place, and one becomes aware with the mind of the expansion and of its purification, then the veils become thinner, the clouds disperse, and the effulgent sun of the spirit shines through in its fullest glory. And that is the end and aim and the goal of all mankind. Now, we do know man suffers. It is an accepted fact that man goes through so many sufferings, be it mental, emotional, physical, psychosomatic, whatever suffering, man is suffering. And this suffering is brought about by man, by himself, and for himsel f. We are the product of many, many lifetimes, if you would accept that concept. It is not necessary to accept the concept either, but man must know. Man must become responsible that whatever I am going through is because what I have done. And all the scriptures of the world verify this in saying that you will reap whatever you sow. Now, if we have sown potatoes, we will get potatoes. If we have sown onions, we will get onions. We know that. Now, if we have sown certain deeds in our lifetime, this life or previous lives, and we are experiencing the effect of the cause that was created, we have set a cycle into motion. And because of our deeds we go through certain sufferings. We have to find a way how to overcome the sufferings. Good. Now, in ove rcoming the sufferings what man normally does is he tries to analyze the sufferings. He tries to rationalize it. He tries to find the cause of suffering. And this is not always necessarily found. And with this total analysis we would come to a stage whe re we will find that with the suffering there is also some joy. And all of us know this. We, with the

8. U S 77 - 24 mind, evaluating life with the mind only, we come across the law of opposites: pain, pleasure; night, day; light, darkness. So how can we escape the su ffering? There is no escape. [LAUGHTER] There is no escape. And sometimes what man does he pleads for mercy. Then he prays and he says, "Oh, Lord, please forgive me." He does that on Sunday. [LAUGHTER] And Mondays we don't know. You ask that of yo urself. Good. Do you see. It reminds me of the story of the Frenchman that was found guilty of murdering his parents. He murdered his mother and father. So after the sentence was passed the judge asked, "Have you anything to say in mitigation?" So the Frenchman says, "Sir, please be merciful on me, because I am now an orphan." [LAUGHTER] Now, this of course is an extreme case. [LAUGHTER] This is an extreme case, but really speaking we are doing it ourselves daily. Yes. When...you know many people pray. Fine. It is good to pray, very good to pray, but very bad to bargain. And most people in their prayers they are bargaining with God: "Lord, if my son passes the examination, then I will donate a hundred dollars to The American Meditation Society." [LA UGHTER] Yes, yes. You see we don't even trust the Lord. You say, "If you do this, then I will do that." Why not rather do what we have to do and let the results come? You see. So we have found a way, and this is a very old way, it's a very ancient w ay, a very ancient way, where we use the mind, which I normally describe as a very cunning animal, we use the mind to overcome the mind. Now, the law of opposites exists only in the mind. It is the mind that feels the pain, and it is the mind that feels the pleasure. It is the mind that recognizes goodness, and it is the mind that recognizes that which is not good. So it is through the mind that we can overcome the law of opposites. And to overcome the law of opposites there is the key to find the secr et of happiness. There is the key to find the unfoldment of the already developed soul, or spirit. Fine. Now, what we do in meditation is that as we dive deep within ourselves, as we dive deep within ourselves, we unfathom the dormant layers of the mind. And as we go through subtler and subtler levels, that which seems as opposite or opposed to each other becomes more to the center. Now, if we could picture the law of opposites as a stick, pain on one side and pleasure on the other side, light on one sid e and darkness on the other side, law of opposites. Yet with our relative mind, with our analysis, we only see the two ends of the stick. Now, with greater expansion of the mind we go inward, we draw inward, and we come to the center of the stick. And i t is only when you are in the center can you view the pain on the one side and the pleasure on the one...the pleasure and pain on either side of the stick. Then only when you are standing in the center can you view it objectively. Then only can you view it objectively and know that this is but transitory. And once you know that this little span of life, three score and ten years, is not even a moment, not even a flicker of an eyelid in comparison to that which is eternal, when we stand in the center of o urselves, look in our hearts, when we reach the depths within ourselves, we discover that all this, all this is so transitory. It's here today and gone tomorrow. And we attach so much importance to it. So by

9. U S 77 - 24 standing within the center of ourselves what we are really doing is looking at ourselves and the world around us objectively. And when we look at the world around us objectively, the sting is gone. When we look at a thing objectively, we are not so emotionally involved. Now, here is a stanza which I have quoted at least a million times, which I love very much. " Two men behind prison bars. One saw mud, the other saw stars." Why? They are both in the self same circumstances, yet one could only see gloom, the other could see glory. So when throu gh meditation and spiritual practices we reach the core of our being, the center of ourselves, and could look objectively at both ends of the stick, because it is just a matter of polarity. And as long as pleasure exists, pain will al ways exist. As long as light exists, darkness will always exist. For both the relative and the absolute has eternal values. Depends where you stand. Now, the person that could see the stars he has developed the attitude, he has developed that beautiful surrender, he has dev eloped that lovely acceptance. Now, surrender and acceptance of life's conditions can come about when we reach the center of ourselves, when we awaken, when we unfold the Divinity that is inherent in every man. So by unfolding the Divinity which is inher ent in every man what we are doing is just that we are going beyond the law of opposites. And that is what the Bible means when it says to be in the world and yet not of the world. That is the only way out. And through spiritual practices we can discove r that Divinity within us. And in the half an hour of meditation when we dive deep within, we do not come back empty handed. Our minds and bodies become permeated with that light. It's a much stronger light than all the lights put together. Not only in Las Vegas, but in the entire universe. Good. [LAUGHTER] So from that angle we are able to properly assess and evaluate. When we dive deep within ourselves it is like going to a perfume factory. You spend half an hour in a perfume factory, and when you come out you'd be smelling like perfume. Yes. Good. So our search is within. Now, if you study the history of man, his search has always been external. They've studied primitive man, and the religions that they formulated were always in finding the riv er God, the tree God, and he recognizes something, even primitive man did, that there is something that is greater than myself. And he started searching for it externally. And when man as he evolved and saw that externally the answer is not to be found, then he started searching internally. And that is exactly what our foundation is doing. Now, I said before, when man can truly find his internal self, or the soul the questioner spoke about, then that would automatically shine in the environment too. I f I'm harmonious within myself, I would find harmony without myself, around myself. And when I experience the joy within me, when I have discovered Divinity within me, then only can I see Divinity in

10. U S 77 - 24 others. If we look at the Ten Commandments where it say s, "Love thy neighbor as thyself," you could never love your neighbor as yourself if you don't know yourself. Therefore, it is said again, "Man know thyself." Now, man cannot know himself if he does not try to know himself totally; therefore we live such a fragmented life. We only try to know our bodies, which we don't really know. We try to know our minds, and we know just a little fraction of it. Good. Now, this search can go on eternally if we concentrate all our energies to mind and body only, and then we are still trapped in this wheel of karma, as they would call it, with the law of opposites, pain and pleasure. And we are involved in this whirlpool. So we are seeking freedom from suffering. We are seeking liberation, some call it salvation. An d this can only be found by centering ourselves, by diving deep within ourselves. And from that standpoint all this assumes no importance whatsoever. And yet, at the same time, it becomes very important, because then we have learned the art of infusing s piritual values into material values. Now, to people of Las Vegas I do not need to talk of material values. They know all about it. [LAUGHTER] Good. Fine. So it is to enjoy, it is to enjoy materiality. It is there to enjoy. Enjoy the joy, I a lways s ay. It is there. But if that same materiality is infused with spirituality by this inward search, by finding the Kingdom of Heaven within, by opening those floodgates and let that light shine through in every act, word and deed. Yes. And every man is c apable of that. Now, some of you don't know, we always greet this way, we say "namaste." It means that by thought, word and deed I salute the Divinity within you. Every man within himself is Divine if only we'd give it a chance. If only we'd give it a c hance, and then the already developed spirit becomes unfolded. And life can be... [END SIDE ONE] GURURAJ: Okay? Good. Fine. Next? AMRIT: Yes? Question? It might be good to stand up and ask your question so that everyone can hear. VOICE: I was wondering if you could give us an idea or definition of the meditation state. [The state of mind and spirit INAUDIBLE reach when we meditate?]? GURURAJ: The questioner wants to know, wants to have a definition of the state one reaches in m editation. Now, if that state can be defined then it would not be meditation. [LAUGHTER] Then it would be contemplation, where we dwell on the level of the mind. Where we dwell on the level of the mind, and the mind with its analytical power, rationaliz ing power,

11. U S 77 - 24 would try and define it. In other words, we would then be attempting to define that which is indefinable. We would be trying to explain that which is inexplicable. Because as I said before, that the finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite. Now, if it cannot comprehend or analyze the infinite, what is the way? One can experience it. I always say that you can take sugar, send it to a laboratory, break it up into its various components and its chemical structure, it's molecular structure, wh at have you, but you cannot explain sweetness. You've got to experience sweetness. So the state of meditation that we reach is beyond the power of the mind, because we are going beyond the mind and land up in that beautiful land of bliss where the mind an d the body ceases to exist. It ceases to exist because we are now going beyond that which is relative, and into the realms of the absolute. And who can define the absolute, hm? Once we can...once we start defining the absolute it would cease to be the a bsolute. Then we are bringing down the absolute to total relativity. But yet the questioner's question is very beautiful. It is a search, a quest. The mind wants to know what state am I going to reach? It is a very natural question. It is a very natur al question. So when we start on the practices we also learn through all the tapes, I don't know how many of my tapes has reached Las Vegas, there's over a hundred and fifty made on the subject... AMRIT: A hundred. GURURAJ: A hundred. And with some of your tapes, and other tapes, yes, we could reach that because they're all on the same subject. Well, I suppose when Amrit comes back to America he will see that they are well distributed. And one could understand by the theory that the certain thing t hat we are embarking upon, or doing upon, we don't do it blindly. You want to understand something, so therefore the questioner's question is admirable. And when we understand a bit of the theory, and the mind feels appeased, then we take another step for ward. And further on we progress. We progress. Because when the mind questions, remember always that for every question there's an answer. And every answer can breed half a dozen questions. And when half a dozen questions are answered, you'd find twel ve other questions arising therefrom. The mind is a cunning animal. Yeah. So to experience the state of meditation, experience the highest state of meditation, we can only experience it, hm? So experience exists within itself as sweetness exists within the sugar. It's up to us. Yes, it is. Okay. AMRIT: Question over here. VOICE: Gururaj, what does "darshan" mean? And will the world that we know ever experience it? I would like you to...

12. U S 77 - 24 GURURAJ: What is darshan? Uh huh. AMRIT: He said, "Wha t is darshan and will the world ever experience it? GURURAJ: What is darshan and will the world ever experience it. Ah. The world as a total entity might not experience it, but the individual can experience it. And the individual by experiencing the wo rld himself, within himself, he can experience darshan. Now, darshan is normally defined it's a Sanskrit word it is normally defined, literally, to see, to see an object. That word is always associated with holy men, holy people. That, as you would kno w, when you have taught meditation, most of you, but let me speak to those that have not started meditating yet, that the entire universe is composed of nothing else but vibrations. Now, vibrations can exist in a subtle form, and it can exist in a compact ed congealed form. The analogy we can use would be of water vapor, which is very fine. And the same water vapor could be condensed into water, which is gross. And it can still be condensed further, grosser still, into a solid block of ice. B ut the prin ciple in the water vapor and the solid block of ice remains the same: H2O. Good. So although in spite of the different changes or different degrees of compactness or congealness of vibration, the eternal factor forever remains. Fine. Now, whenever ther e is vibration there has to be motion because the nature of vibration is never to remain static. And wherever there is motion there is an [??????]. It could be in the form of light or sound, which can be perceived by senses higher than the five senses we know of. So it virtually means that everything around us [??????????] tables, chairs, whatever, is emitting, is emitting a certain vibration all the time. Now, darshan actually means to be near a holy man. Fine. Now, the holy person, having a greater de gree of purity or total purity or total realization, total integration, is capable of emitting, emitting, a fine subtle vibration whose [scope? ] is very vast and large. So when we are in the company of a holy person, we are bathed in that vibration, in th at holiness which that holy man emits. And that definitely affects us in some way. The subtle vibrations penetrates our very being. So in satsangs most people experience this, that when they leave the satsangs they feel lighter, they feel happier, somet hing has happened. Buddha's greatest teachings were done in silence where he never said a word. He would sit there, the chelas around him. And when they asked him questions of the infinite, he would just remain silent. And he would be emitting those vibr ations that could bathe those around him. That is darshan. Darshan. Literally darshan means "to see," and figuratively darshan means to feel the spiritual force which a spiritual master emits all the time.

13. U S 77 - 24 The spiritual master is like a well. And it dep ends upon the person to fill from the well as much water as he can. You take a small bucket, you take a little bit of water. You take a gallon bucket, a gallon full of water. Five gallon bucket, five gallons of water. I believe there's no water shortag e around here. [LAUGHTER] We just came from [??????????????] and there was a water shortage there. And I was told about here, there one could go to the loo and press the... [LAUGHTER] [??????????] What time do we end, by the way? AMRIT: We can go on u ntil ten. As you feel. GURURAJ: Fine. Any more questions? Does that satisfy you? VOICE: Thank you. AMRIT: More questions? One over here, somewhere in the center. Okay. There's a question right here. VOICE: You were mentioning earlier about becoming objective and balancing towards the center of the being. Is it also necessary or average to lose the interest in material things? [INAUDIBLE] objective [INAUDIBLE]. Is it natural to lose interest? GUR URAJ: Aha, beautiful question. You do not, the question is that as you become more and more centered within yourself do you lose interest in material things. Now, the answer is you gain more interest. You do not lose interest. Now, losing interest cou ld mean that you become detached. Now, detachment means that you develop a certain kind of indifference to your environment. You become indifferent to it. Many people become detached as a form of escapism. They would take things and seclude themselves. That is detachment. But what we are striving for is non attachment. Not detachment, but non attachment. Where we have the fullest interest in everything around us. The fullest interest. We become involved in everything, and enjoy everything to its fu llest value. And yet we do not allow it to effect us. Now, the principle behind, the mechanics behind it is that when we become affected by any situation it causes a deep scar or a deep impression upon our minds, and causing this deep impression, having a cause, it must have an effect. So there we are back into the whirlpool. Every cause has an effect, and every

14. U S 77 - 24 effect will produce another cause, and that cause will have its effect ad infinitum. So by having or developing the sense of non attachment, we can enjoy everything to its fullest value and yet not allow it to create a deep impression within ourselves. Now, as I said before, if we are deeply impressed by a pleasant situation, then be sure that you will also be deeply impressed by an unpleasant situation. The greater the sensitivity one develops to one side of the stick, the greater the sensitivity would be, would there be to the other side as well. Now, non attachment, thereto, brings you to the center where you can enjoy everything to its fu llest value. You can know the real value of polarity, and yet, and yet not be affected by it. So then pain and pleasure just become one, because you have gone beyond it. Non attachment takes you beyond, and it takes you beyond this all in the sense that it does not leave a lasting impression. The one impression is the mother that would create another impression. Okay? Fine. Please. AMRIT: Question here. VOICE: I was just going to ask you about other planets. Are there more advanced beings on othe r planets? I've heard this before. And I've read [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: Other planets? Oh, yes! Yes, yes, yes. If there are beings on other planets, and if there are higher beings than us. Oh, definitely, yes. There are higher beings. And this worl d, too, will evolve to a certain stage where verbal communication would not be necessary. Where a question would not be required and an answer would not be necessary to the question. There would be a subtle communication, where the impulse arises in the mind, and the impulse causes a reaction. And that reaction is fulfilled with the same energy, same impulse formed to find the answer. So what it actually means is this, that man will develop to a stage on this planet, as beings have developed to stages i n other galaxies, in other planets, where the communication will be on a subtler level. So as man starts expanding the awareness of his mind, we are using, as you know, a small percentage of the mind. And as the mind becomes more and more aware, the commu nication with everything around us will take place on a more subtler level. And that is what is known as part and parcel of the process of evolution. But yet, we do not need to wait to develop the entirety of what the mind is capable of. That might take m illions of years. But we want to know bliss here and now in this lifetime. And the only way to do it is to go beyond the regions of the mind and experience the bliss. The Upanishads, for example, start off by saying, "What is there by knowing which all e lse is known?" And the answer is the spirit which dwells within.

15. U S 77 - 24 So man is capable of communicating on a far subtler level. And that experience is had by many people, where you just have a feeling that Auntie Matilda is coming to visit this afternoon. An d there, like a bad penny, she turns up. [LAUGHTER] Yes. So that is communication. That is communication. [LAUGHTER] That is communication, and of course thought is a thing. Thought is a thing. A definite thing which is observable by the subtler en ergy within our minds. Thought is also matter, but a subtler matter. And it is existing as sound waves, as radio broadcasts are existing in this very room from thousands of broadcasting stations. We only need the radio to tune in, put it on its right [?? ?] and wave band, and we have the reception. So in that instance when you just felt and knew from a sense of knowingness, that Auntie Matilda is coming, you are thinking of [?????]. And the subtle level of your mind picked up the thought of Auntie Matild a and there she was. Good. That is in the realm of the subtle mind where there is the sense of knowingness. Now, knowingness also has stages how it develops. It can be developed purposely through belief. And then after belief we develop that which is known as faith. And after faith we develop that which is the sense of knowingness or we reach the intuitive level. Now, if we sit here in an air conditioned room, we believe that the room next door is warm there's a f ire burning. We believe that. Fine . But as we leave from here and go into that room and we feel the heat coming, then by having that bit of experience of the heat, and this happens in meditation, as we have the experience in feeling the heat we develop faith that ah, there is fire there. But when we go to the room and really enter the fire and experience it, then we know what fire is. So these are various stages of development of the human mind; how one reaches the subtler and subtler and subtler levels of the human mind. But man is capa ble of that. But if we just go on trying to develop the subtler levels of the human mind and mix with it the heart then there will be this imbalance. So when practices are given which are personalized and tailor made for a person, for his need, or accordi ng to the state or stage of his evolution, then a simultaneous unfoldment or development perhaps takes place between the mind and the heart. Where the mind will analyze at the subtler level, and the heart, too, with the mind, would feel the experience on a n intuitive level. That is the process. Okay. So there are other beings on other planets. We think we are great. We're not, really. Some of those guys up there somewhere are better than us. AMRIT: Question. VOICE: Aren't happiness and fulfillment somewhat synonymous and also a byproduct of pleasure. And if, therefore, they are, how can you be happy and fulfilled, but not be getting back on that karmic wheel [????]?

16. U S 77 - 24 GURURAJ: Aha, beautiful. [LAUGHTER] AM RIT: [INAUDIBLE] repeat the question? GURURAJ: Yes, I'll repeat the question. [INAUDIBLE] [????????] the questioner has talked of happiness, he has talked of fulfillment, and what was the third one? AMRIT: He was talking about pleasure. GURURAJ: P leasure. Fulfillment, pleasure and happiness. Now, pleasure is a fork that comes from a completely different table. [LAUGHTER] [That's?] fulfillment. Can any man ever feel fulfilled by having pleasure? That is the question. If you sit down to a meal, right, your stomach might feel full after the meal, but that is not fulfillment. [LAUGHTER] Now, eating this beautiful meal, and believe me I'm staying with a hostess who is a wonderful cook. Right. Eating this beautiful meal, I experience pleasure. All the taste buds are really looked after. I experience pleasure. But I have lunch at one o'clock, and half past six I am hungry again. How long did that pleasure last? A few hours. Right. The same thing applies, the same principle applies, in every thing we regard to be pleasure. Right. But fulfillment is something else. Fulfillment is a product which is not limited that you feel hungry again. Fulfillment is from an entirely different level. Right. Fulfillment is being fulfilled. Having experie nced the totality there could be no opposites, too. While pleasure will always have pain. Don't we know the common saying, "Oh, you're laughing too much. You're surely going to cry"? VOICES: Yes. GURURAJ: Good. You have pleasure and it is like a co in. If you take the head, you have to accept the tails as well. So pleasure and pain, being within the framework of the law of opposites, will always be there. So pleasure can never be fulfilling. Pleasure can never be fulfilling because inherent withi n the measure of pleasure is pain. Yah. What do the Americans say? Yep. [LAUGHTER] AMRIT: Gary Cooper made that famous.

17. U S 77 - 24 GURURAJ: Oh, yes. Yeah. So it's nice to have pleasure. Fine. Okay. But let us look at pleasure in its true perspective. Let us enjoy pleasure, but know that this pleasure is transient. And use that pleasure as a stepping stone to find joy. Now, pleasure and joy are different, because joy is the reflection of fulfillment. Pleasure is a satiation of a physical and mental desir e. It is satisfying a physical and mental need. You want to have pleasure because there is something lacking. And you feel that by satisfying a physical or mental need you will have pleasure. But now if you go far deeper in the...in the desire to find p leasure, at the deeper level, man is truly seeking for fulfillment. Man is truly seeking for fulfillment. And the reason being this that true fulfillment is within himself. The Kingdom of Heaven is there within himself. And it is thi s force that is pul sating within man is forever trying to find it. Now, man can approach it in so many ways, but yet consciously or unconsciously man is seeking for fulfillment. And yet he tries to find fulfillment in pleasure. Now, anythin g to do with pleasure is always created by something external. Something external that stirs up something internal. And anything gained from the environment or from all forms of externality can never be permanent. So pleasure is impermanent. But knowing this, that life can be pleasan t, why not make life supremely pleasant? And when life is made supremely pleasant, then we know the value of joy. For joy is the expression of Divinity. Joy is the manifestation of the Manifestor. And that joy is expressed also in love. When man truly loves as a total being, what great joy there is to be felt? Man thinks he loves. He does not love. He only tries to fulfill a lack within himself, a need wit hin himself. For if man really knows love, love shines on its own. It is self luminous and does not need an outside aid. Outside aids are only needed when we are not fulfilled within ourselves. When we don't really experience real love. Good. We confine, we abuse, misuse, that divine word called love. And we only look at love from its physical a nd mental aspect. We only try and practice love from its physical and mental aspects. But if we can infuse in the mental and the physical the spiritual aspect, then man could really know the totality of love. Even between man and woman in lovemaking. Ho w many people really know how to make love? They use their minds and their bodies. How many people can be lost and totally merged with the object of love, where the spirit within the man becomes one with the spirit within the woman? And there is a total obliviousness of the body and the mind, for they are now merged within the spirit where real love and bliss is felt. I'm talking of love. People experience mostly lust. Experience mostly lust, and that they regard to be pleasure, which is so impermanen t. But when you experience love and stir up our entirety, and when that spiritual self of ours permeates every cell in our body, billions of cells there are, and when it is permeated and tinged by the infusion of the Divine quality, then we know what love is, what love making is between husband and wife. I am a guru for householders. I'm not a recluse. [LAUGHTER] Yah, yah, yah, I have experienced the householder's life. My guru forced me to come back down to earth from the Himalayas and said, "You go an d experience the worldly life." So I got married, raised a family, started a business. Fine. So I know what I'm talking about. I talk of experience. Good .

18. U S 77 - 24 So the totality of life and love can be experienced, and life can be lived in joy real joy. Ne xt. AMRIT: Okay. There was another question? VOICE: Yeah, when you understand, and I do understand what you want to say... GURURAJ: You do? VOICE: Yes. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Bravo. VOICE: I find it very difficult to make the transition from lust to love. GURURAJ: Ahh, yes, yes, I know. That is the universal problem. That is the problem...that is the problem we in the foundation are trying to solve [laughter]. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Yah, yah, yah. [laughter] I know. One answer: meditate. [LAUGHTER] And when you meditate you will naturally gravitate from lust to love. Yes, that is what we are trying to do. That is the message I bring to you all, the message of love . The message of love. And every word I speak to you does not come from the mind. Every word I speak to you comes from deep experience and realization. For when we rise above lust and experience love, then we would have attained the goal of what life is meant to be. [???????????] But do not be discouraged. No. There is no hope lost. What's the word? Discouraged, encouraged, ah, it's late. [LAUGHTER] VOICE: Same thing [laughter]. GURURAJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do not be discouraged. Have cou rage [????]. Yeah, even in the word discouraged there is courage. Yeah. There is more built in. Everything is just built in. In every problem the solution is inherent. In

19. U S 77 - 24 every problem the solution is inherent, because if the solution was not there, there would be no problem. That is true. It's true, yes. So the transition will come. The transition will come from lust to love through our spiritual practices and as w e become more integrated beings. Do not try to shift away from this end to the oth er end. You won't succeed. You can't overnight turn lust into love. You're bluffing yourself. Yeah. As we practice our meditations, and as we become more and more integrated, fine, and as we find that Divinity within us, then automatically the transitio n is there. And the transition would be so beautiful, so sudden, that you will not even see the dividing line. You can sit here at the mountains and watch the sun setting, and suddenly it might come. And you don't know where the dividing line was from da y into night. When dawn breaks you do not see the exact moment or the dividing line when the day has started. The fragrance of the flower. You do not see the fragrance, but you experience it. And that is the experience that comes in this transition. That experience you will have. Good. VOICE: Yeah. GURURAJ: Good. I have spoken enough. Before we end could I tell you a little story? Hm? Okay. It is ironically humorous. The question over there was asked to me about planets and super beings on other planets. Meanwhile, after God created the universe He started visiting all these various planets. And He came down to our planet, Earth. He came here. Now, when He came down to Earth and people heard oh, the old boy is around [LAUGHTER] so every one started pestering Him with all kinds of problems. Big problems, okay. Small problems, the housewife burned the toast. You know, so she goes and complains to Him, "My toast was burned." Right. Or the husband because she didn't give a clean hanky th is morning, he goes in to complain, you know, to God, you know, "Oh, I didn't get my clean hanky." Now, all this little minor, minor, minor things people went complaining and complaining and complaining. And at last, you know, He got tired. He said, "Look , I need a rest. I can't go to Las Vegas [for the day?], too much excitement there." Right. So He, you know, He wanted a rest, and to find that rest He thought He must go away somewhere. Right. So He called His counselors, you know, His ministers, He c alled them there, and He asked their advice. Fine. So one suggested, "Why don't you go on top of the Himalayas on Mt. Everest? You might find rest there because nobody has reached there yet." So, of course, our conception of time is different to eternal time. What we regard to be a thousand years is just a flicker in terms of eternity. So He replied that, "I'll go to the Himalayas, but then Hillary and Tenzing will come along and they will find me there. And then there will be a whole queue. Everybody will start coming up. And I won't have rest any more." Fine. Then somebody suggested that "Why don't you go to the moon, and you'll have rest there?" So then He thought. He says, "Oh, one of

20. U S 77 - 24 these days that American, Armstrong, will come along, [LAUGH TER] you know, and everyone will follow him and I'll have no rest." So all this was happening and all kinds of advice was given. And I can't remember if I was there in the counsel. [LAUGHTER] Nevertheless, someone came up with a nice idea. The idea was this that he told God, he says, "The best place to hide is to hide within man." Hm. Yep. [MUCH LAUGHTER] [APPLAUSE] So then He says that, "Look, you know, if I hide within man then you'd have some saints and, you know, some highly developed souls that will discover that I am hiding, you know, within man." So of course, this advisor replied, "When man reaches that stage of discovering You within him, he would be so evolved that he will have no complaints left." [LAUGHTER] Good. So with this little st ory, half past nine, nearly, we will end this evening. It was so so beautiful to meet the Las Vegas part of my American family. It was so nice being here, so joyful. And of course we start the course tomorrow at Lake Havasu, I'm sure some of you here wil l be coming to the course. And we're looking forward to going deeper into various aspects of life and living, and the philosophies and the wisdom behind it. So I shall say namaste. [APPLAUSE] [MUCH COMMOTION AS GURURAJ LEAVES] AMRIT: May I have your attention for just a minute? Tom has some announcements to make. TOM: We'd like you all to know on next Thursday, at the same time, Gururaj will be back here, following the course, for another talk. So if you would like to bring a friend of the family, [INAUDIBLE]. If you'd like to see him, next Thursday, again. Those of you who may not have... **** END ****

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