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1. US 77-7 AMRIT: ... Pretty much an open one today to answer questions that you have about Gururaj, about any aspect of our teaching. Maybe spend just a few minutes first telling you a few of the things that I didn't talk about the other night when we were talking about Gururaj. You've all had a chance to be with him for several days. And I think always it's nicer to discuss someone's background after you know them personally, after you've had a chance to personally interact with them. Now there are certain things about Gururaj that people will notice quite dramatically, or I shouldn't say dramatically, but it will be simply obvious when you've been around him for a while. One of the things is that he really doesn't keep himself sort of on a pedestal or apart from the people that he's dealing with. He communicates very easily and very naturally with people, and he doesn't try to prevent himself from experiencing a very simple, one to one kind of relationship with people. And this particular way of behaving is quite different from the way many gurus and understand now that I am not talking about one guru that many of us are knowing but many gurus do not act that way. There is very much of a sense all the time ... I mean there are times certainly when Gururaj is sitting here and talking that you have the feeling of someone of great authority speaking. And that comes across. And at those moments you tend to feel like a chela, like a disciple, like a student. But there are other moments when you are having a meal with him, when you are standing outside with him, when you feel very much on absolutely equal par with him, one to one, and no special division between yourself and the teacher or the guru. I think this is very important because many spiritual teachers do not have that quality of interaction. There is a sense of separation. They do tend to keep themselves very far above the people or far away from the people that they interact wit h or that they are with. Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying in any direct way to compare Guruji to Jesus Christ or to any other master in the past because each of them has their own unique mission, their own unique stamp of qualities and so forth. But one thing that I do think is important to remember is that most of these great spiritual teachers like Buddha and like Christ did not keep themselves separate from the people that they were teaching. There was a tremendous direct communication link. They would sit down at the table with publicans and sinners. OK. They would eat with ordinary people. There was a ... Now this doesn't come across so much in the ordinary Christian scriptures, but if you read the Edgar Cayce readings, say, describing the last supper or the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, you'll see that when Christ was lounging and relaxing, when he wasn't out, sort of in a sense out on the platform as a teacher, that he behaved very, very much as an ordinary human being would. He would laugh with people. He would joke with people. There was a very easy kind of natural relationship without a lot of sort of artificial barriers. Now there times, of course, when Christ or when Buddha, any of these teachers, were called upon to speak, and they were speaking in a sense ex cathedra. OK. They were speaking in a sense from divine inspired authority. And at those moments when they were being powerful channels, one could easily feel then that they were there and you were here. You were sitting at there

2. US 77-7 feet. But that was only with respect to the knowledge, wisdom, or the spiritual force which was being channeled through them. In other words, the reason one feels that kind of awe or that sense of the teacher being there and you being there at those moments is just because you are sensing most strongly the divinity that flows through the teacher. And it's not the teacher. It's not the personality. It's not the individual that you feel that kind of worship for, but rather the sense of what's flowing through the teacher at that moment. But the teacher, being a human being, is not always speaking ex cathedra. OK. He's not always speaking as the ... In that sense of being a channel. Very often he's speaking just as an ordinary human being. And under those circumstances it would be just as natural and as ordinary as to be talking to you or to me or to anyone else. And many of you experienced that today. I mean, you had some feeling of that today. For instance in our lunch today. Uhh, one of the things that has impressed me very much is that I mean, this is just from my own experience when I walk into a room where Guruji is or when we're having dinner together, I don't feel an artificial sense of constraint like I have to be watching myself every minute. I feel very natural like I would speak and say things that I would normally speak and say. And there's no feeling like I have to be really careful or hold myself in in some way. This is something that we were just talking about on the way back from lunch today. And this is another indication of this purely human aspect of the teacher or the guru. So, uhh, one of the things that I guess the whole point my making this long statement is just to say this remember the guru is a human being. And if they weren't, they could not be a spiritual teacher to human beings! This is the whole point! OK. If a guru were something that were always, uhh, represented something completely alien to humanity, perfect in every possible way, so that they just, you couldn't find a point of contact, OK, then the guru would be just exactly what? Well, then the guru would be in fact God. But that's the whole point. God is perfection, whereas a human being, anything in three dimensional form, is not perfection. OK. And not being perfection, we have a point of contact to make with that individual. Now what characterizes the moment of perfection with a spiritual teacher is not their ordinary daily personality , but those moments like this morning when the wisdom, the knowledge, the spiritual energy starts to flow. Those moments when they put their hands on you like I described to you at that lecture at Doug's church that night when he can walk up to someone, put their hands on the right place on their head, find exactly the area where there is a major problem, and just literally pull it right out of the individual. And through the law of grace, not by their own personality, but through the law of grace to alleviate from a person a very, very deep and profound psychological problem. It's at those moments that divinity is speaking through the guru, that the guru is being a channel. And at other moments he is being just a very ordinary human being. And that has to be that way or the guru couldn't serve his purpose. He would then be, in a sense, playing the role of God! But he is not God. He is a human being as a personality. Divinity, Godhead, whatever you want

3. US 77-7 to call it, works through that personality. And that's the key to the understanding of a guru. If you always remember that, you will neither be disappointed nor overwhelmed. You will always respond to him in a very natural way. And if you find that he has ordinary personality characteristics like, for instance, smoking. Many of you know that Guruji smokes. This is not anything that we're in the slightest bit interested in hiding. He smokes first of all because he enjoys it, and secondly because it helps to keep him grounded. It keeps his vibrations somewhat lowered. Now this is, uhh, this aspect of a guru, is something that I just read about recently in a rather lengthy book, describing the relationship between a chela and a guru that took place over about thirty five years. It's called The Initiate. The Initiate in the New World and The Initiate in the Dark Cycle. And this particular guru was working anonymously. That is, he was born in an English home and had an English background. He was working in the Western world with small groups of disciples. That is, not many of them knew that he was, in fact, a realized individual and a spiritual teacher. And, uhh, in this book, one of the things I noticed was how he said that he smokes for two reasons: first of all, because he lives in a culture where everyone smokes, and it makes people immediately feel at ease if he enjoys, if he joins them in their smoking in this particular book because this was around the turn of the century in England. So he smokes cigars, of course. And then it said also that he did this because it lowered his vibrations. It kept him grounded because he had a tendency for his vibrations to become so high that he would lose his ability to be grounded and focused in the physical world. And so it was a frequency modulator, as he put it, to keep the vibrations down. And so Gururaj smokes basically for two reasons: number one, because he enjoys it, and number two, because it helps to keep that frequency down. Yes? CHELA: Umm, just in regard to that. [Unintelligible] I think we should add in regard to the fact that he smokes. He says that when he does that it actually leaves absolutely no trace of it on him. AMRIT: Now, this is very interesting. Many people have noticed this. Uhh, you remember in England several people have mentioned ... Or uhh, you were with us at that time when we were talking about that, weren't you, Doug? Uhh, many people have mentioned that they can not smell any smoke on Gururaj. On his clothing or on his person. Even right after he has had a cigarette. Because he often has a cigarette just before he comes into the lecture hall. See this gets him focused and grounded! [Slapping hands together to add emphasis.] So when he comes ... Particularly if he's been doing a lot of meditation on forms because then he's in samadhi all the time, you see, and he tends to go like this. Now, for instance, you may be interested in knowing that if you go back into the history of spiritual teachers now this is really interesting you'll find that about eighty or ninety percent of the famous ones, the ones that are well known, as well

4. US 77-7 as many that are not well known, all smoked. And they claimed they smoked for the same reason: to keep themselves grounded. Ramakrishna is an example of this. Vivekananda is an example of this. Uhh, most of the Zen masters smoked. And, uhh, there is a very famous story, for instance, of Vivekananda that when he came to the West, he was ... He smoked a pipe. And you know how in India you pick up your pipe, and you knock it against the bottom of your foot because the floors in the houses are just dung floors. And people just do things like that. And so he was invited to the house of a very wealthy family in, uhh, New York or somewhere around New York, somewhere out east. And he was giving a very profound lecture, and he was completely lost in his lecture. So he was smoking his pipe, and he pulled it out, and he started banging it on the bottom of his shoe. And they had just bought a five thousand dollar Persian carpet which they had placed in the room. And huge burns all over it in the carpet. So this is one of the famous stories about Vivekananda. Now, I don't want to emphasize this too much. It's just one little point. But, I can't emphasize too strongly this important point of understanding that a guru is not, umm, and should never make the claim to being, perfect or to being beyond ordinary human qualities or characteristics. And, in fact, if he were, he could not do the very purpose that he took on physical form in order to do. He couldn't fulfill that function or that purpose. And this is why all spiritual teachers since the beginning of time have been, have tended to be people that would walk easily with the people that they were teaching. Certainly this was true of Krishna. Certainly this was true of Buddha. All the things that we know about him. Certainly this was true of Christ and of many other spiritual teachers far lesser known than say Krishna or Buddha or Christ. CHELA: [Unintelligible] ... Muhammad? AMRIT: Beg pardon? CHELA: Muhammad? AMRIT: Muhammad. I'm not ... This is ... I know a little bit about Islam. I read the history of Islam, but I'm not that ... That's the one religion that I feel less, less ... That I feel I know less about and can say less about than the others. OK. Now a few more little details about Guruji's, uhh, past. When Guruji was born ... This was on December 12, 1932. At the time of his birth a very, very loud sound like this, [loud whooshing sound] "Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh," was heard at the place of his birth. And it could be heard ... Now remember he was born in a, in an extremely wealthy family. It was a maharaja's. He was a maharaja's son. And, uhh, the area that they lived in was quite large. These were huge stately homes, some of

5. US 77-7 them on the verge of being palaces. OK? And for four or five homes around, that sound could be heard at the moment that he was born. And the doctor was astonished as well as the midwife that officiated at the birth. And they could find no explanation as to why this happened. OK? Now that sound is a very important one, Shhhhhhhh, because it's the beginning of the word Shhhhhhhiva. Shiva. OK? Now what does Shiva mean? Ok. If you read books on, the typical kind of books that so often come to the West you'll think that Shiva means a god. And it means a certain god in the Hindu pantheon of gods. But, in fact, it doesn't. It means something else. Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma, those three terms, refer to a trinity. And it's identically the same trinity tha t you find in Christianity although different forms and different names are used to describe the abstract concept that fits behind that trinity! But the shiva aspect of this trinity is the aspect of what's called "spiritual will," and contained within spiritual will is the process of purification. OK? Now let's look at it this way. Spiritual will in the universe is like the blue print for the universe and for men's lives. It represents the ideal, that towards which they're striving. It's the will, the purpose toward which they're striving. Now part and parcel of realizing that goal is snipping off all of those branches with a pruning shears that are growing in the wrong direction, that are not growing consistently with that blue print whatever it might be. OK? So if the architect is supervising the building of the building, he's got the blue print, and he sees that someone starts to build something in the wrong way, he's got to have them disassemble that and restructure it so it's built in the right way. Now that disassembling is the purification aspect of spiritual growth, and it's built in as part and parcel of spiritual will or spiritual purpose, if you like. OK? So that represents the first person aspect of the trinity. In Christianity that's called "God the Father." OK? In a patriarchal society the father would represent, would be the will of the family in a sense, OK, and also would be the one who would do the punishing which would be the purification aspect. Now understand! Not punishing in the sense that we often think of it. As trying to sort of get even or something like that. But punishing in the sense of providing whatever is necessary t o prevent people from walking down a path which is not going to lead them to the goal. OK? That's the idea. Now that represents, then, the first person aspect of the trinity. The second aspect, person aspect, is the aspect of universal love. OK? Ananda or "Agape" as you want, whatever you want to call it. And universal love is the, uhh, is the part of the divine trinity which is responsible for integrating or bringing together all things in the universe. Now that power expresses itself on many different levels. It expresses itself, for instance, in the mating behavior of animals, drawing them together in the mating interaction. On the mineral level it expresses itself as the chemical interactions that take place between two chemicals that are drawn into a chemical reaction together. OK? On the human level it expresses itself as human love which is an integrating force. And of course,

6. US 77-7 on the divine level in terms of what we would call divine love or universal love. So, this is the second person aspect of th e trinity. And the third person aspect of the trinity is spiritual, "creative intelligence." This is what actually takes the will of divinity and structures that will into concrete structures on the surface of the earth. In other words, in the Christian tradition on e says that the Holy Spirit does what? It spreads the will, the divine will, amongst the human beings living on the surface of the earth. It makes it manifest on the surface of the earth. And so spiritual, creative intelligence builds those structures which are meant to embody the purpose or the plan which is contained in spiritual will. So there you have the complete trinity, the complete divine trinity. CHELA: Walter? AMRIT: Yes. CHELA: Uhh, Shiva was the first one, purification. Who was Ananda? And who was the last one? AMRIT: Uhh, oh, the second person would be Vishnu in the Hindu tradition and God the Son in the Christian tradition. And the third one is Brahma in the Hindu tradition and the Holy Spirit in the Christian tradition. But it's the same identical trinity even though the names and the forms which are used to describe it differ. OK? So it's a universal concept, but just with different names and forms used to represent that concept. Now, umm, Gururaj's function or purpose involves the entire trinity as is the case with all gurus. All gurus are meant to express that. And in fact Gururaj's spiritual name is Gururaj Ananda Yogi. This was given to him by his spiritual master as his spiritual name. And of course it's not Gururaj Shiva Yogi. It's not Gururaj Brahma Yogi. It's Gururaj Ananda Yogi which refers to that thing of universal love. So the central aspect of our teaching is the aspect of love. But as you heard in the lecture this morning, the predecessor, the necessary condition to being able to experience that kind of love, is a purification process. And that is expressed by the concept of Shiva and the sound that represents that purification process is Shhhhhhh. And that's the sound of fire, isn't it? Fire which burns out the impurities in a sense. So these are just some of the interesting little tid bits that I wanted to fill you in on. Now when Gururaj was about ... You heard about his running away from home and so on. But when he was about fifteen years old, he ran away from home for the second time. And as I mentioned, he went to the Himalayas where he actuall y

7. US 77-7 found his master after looking for him for about a year. And his initial idea was to become a monk and recluse and live in a cave and all that. But his master told him, "No, your path is the path of a householder. You are to lead a householders' movement one day, a spiritual movement of householders. And you need to have that experience so that you will be bringing your teaching by direct experience rather than just by theories." And uhh, it was at the age of eighteen that Guruji experienced the state of nirvikalpa samadhi. Now I have that written exactly what he said about this. I've got it written down on a piece of paper. And I'll share this with you at a later time. Unfortunately I don't have the paper with me. It's still back in England. But he actually describes in a paragraph what it was like going into that state of nirvikalpa samadhi. And that was about the age of eighteen. So he still had two more years in India before he left and came to South Africa. When he landed in South Africa, he had about ten schillings in his pocket because he went without the ... Uhh, he wanted to experience this, umm, process of getting started as a householder without the assistance, the wealth and the assistance, of his family. And in fact, when he inherited that money, just as several years ago, the entire amount that he inherited was given over to the building of a hospital in Gujrat, in the province in India that he comes from. So he didn't take a penny ever that would have been his by right of birth. This was all used to build a hospital. But nonetheless, he wanted to start his life as a householder without depending on the wealth of his family. And so he landed in South Africa with nothing, and over a period of years, of course, he became a very successful businessman. And uhh, again with much of his money he built a hospital or a clinic for spastic children in South Africa. So these are jus t a few little more details about his life. Now are there questions or points or issues that you would like to bring up this? Anything at all? Yes. CHELA: Before joining the organization in Los Angeles, certain things were brought to my attention so far as, uhh, how Gururaj was selected to fulfill his particular role, to fill the particular spot that was vacated by a saint who had left his body. I thought [Walla Baba?]. Is that so? Is that true? And if so, can you comment on it? AMRIT: OK. You're asking actually a very deep question here. CHELA: Is it true though? AMRIT: Umm, yes. At least that's ... I mean ... Put it this way. I'm not in the position to directly verify or falsify this statement, but yes, he has said that this is true. In other words ... CHELA: Restate that please. [Unintelligible due to several persons speaking at once.]

8. US 77-7 AMRIT: Beg pardon? CHELA: We didn't get that over here. CHELA 2: We didn't hear. CHELA: It was the air conditioner ... AMRIT: Oh, I'm sorry. Maybe we should shut off the ... [Unaccountable abrupt change in topic.] The story of Noah's ark is the story, is the symbolic story, of a process which has happened cyclically over and over and over again since the beginning of time. And that is that a great, the great majority of human beings would get off the spiritual path. Their values would become mixed up, distorted, twisted. And as a result of this a tremendous amount of chaos, confusion and suffering would start to arise in the human family. OK? Now when this happens, two things are required. One thing is that a message of love, purification, uhh, a message which mankind needs to heal their hearts and so forth, has to return. And at the same time something has to sweep away all the dross that's been accumulating. Now you see, when I say, when I speak of the dross accumulating, remember that when people ... Every time a person has a negative thought, that thought registers out here in the environment, in the subtle atmosphere, and stays as a permanent thing. It's stress in the atmosphere. Now that is, that stress is as real as this microphone is. It exists! The fact that we don't yet have instruments that are subtle enough to pick up say the fine energies which emanate from the individual when they are having a thought and a feeling, the fact that we don't have instruments subtle enough to do that, is not relevant really. We will before the next, say, half a century is over. Things like this will be measured, will be measurable. But the important thing is that, that feeling that emanates from us registers and accumulates in the atmosphere around this planet. So we are not only polluting this planet physically by dumping chemicals into the atmosphere, we are also polluting it emotionally by dumping emotional pollutants into the atmosphere constantly! Now as this builds up and up and up, the whole race starts to become berserk in its responses. Uhh, wars and the rumor of wars. OK? This becomes the reality of daily life. Riots and tremendous rises in crime and uhh, vast endless forms of immorality

9. US 77-7 of all forms, you know. Watergates and, you know, political corruption, and every, just every form of problem starts to come up. Now one of the things that has to happen is that with the returning of this message of love and purity and so forth, there also has to be a sweeping away of all the dross that's accumulated. Now that's the purification aspect, isn't it? The purification process. That's represented by Shiva. OK? Now, the story of Noah's Ark is the story symbolic of this happening. Because the earth has become corrupted, a purifying force ... Which in this case is what? Water. Ok. Water comes to cover the entire earth's surface and purify it of the dross that's accumulated. And uhh, at the same time a spiritual teacher whom we call Noah comes. And he speaks to humanity, and he says, "OK. This is what's coming. OK? This is what's coming in the future." Noah warned, didn't he. He warned the population at that time: this is what's coming in the future. Now the majority of humanity did not listen. A few did. Now the part of this story of Noah's Ark which is symbolic, uhh, which is literal is this: that, in fact, the latest cycle of this is supposed to have taken place about, oh, twelve thousand years ago. About nine, ten thousand B.C. OK? And this was the sinking of the last of the Atlantean islands which were dominant in the culture that existed on this planet at that time in Atlantis. And the story is according to the esoteric traditions.... Now this is what the Theosophists say, this is what the Rosicrucians say, this is what Edgar Cayce said. You know, psychics like that and so on. The story is that at that time, umm, because the earth was very badly corrupted, people were misusing scientific and spiritual powers. I mean, you know, powers like telepathy and all these kind of things were known about and widely used and very badly misused at those times. So what happened is, uhh, spiritual teachers came, and they said, "Behold. This is the future if you continue on your present path." And the future was not pretty as they presented it. But the vast majority of humanity at that time did not listen. Now a few did listen. And those few are Noah's family. Now this does not mean literally that Noah, the physical being, that just those few people, his two sons or whatever, that just those people were the ones who listened and came with him. His family means the family of God, those who would listen, those who were awake to the divine message that was coming. And so Noah, symbolic of the spiritual teachers of that kind taking those with them who would listen to their message, those who were on the spiritual path, they built ships, and I ... The part that is literal is that the ships that they built are very likely exactly to the dimensions or specifications that were indicated in the Old Testament. OK? Cubits were the same dimensions that were used in building the, uhh, pyramids? Things like that? So uhh, that's probably literally true that that was done. And in any case, uhh, many ships sailed. And probably, I mean, these ideas like two of every animal and so forth. I mean these are absurd. How can you pick out microscopic animals and things like this? But probably people brought what ... They brought ... Probably many of these were farming people and so on. They brought

10. US 77-7 their animals along and so forth. They brought animals perhaps that didn't exist on other continents to new continents and so on. But the places that they settled were in Egypt and South America. That was the major settlements. Also some in the Pyrenees Mountains and several other places. But the major places were Egypt and South America. And so the culture that built up knowing the use and technology, the spiritual technology of, uhh, of pyramids and things like this ... This was an Atlantean ... This was Atlantean knowledge, knowledge that came from that planet. So what happened basically was that there was a major earthquake. The island of Atlantis went under. Islands. They were actually more like the size of Australia. That sort of thing. They went under. And uhh, those who had heard, they escaped. They got to the right places. They knew where to be at the moment that these changes were taking place. Those who couldn't hear the message? They went under. OK? It was that simple. So the ... What's happening is that we're approaching another one of those critical periods in history. We're misusing natural forces today! Misusing natural law. You can see this in the tremendous misuse of technology today! Just complete, umm, irresponsibility in the use of technology! Very serious! All around the world. In Russia. In the United States. In China. All countries are doing this now. And uhh, the few can hear, but the many don't hear. So the purpose of this, of spiritual movements, ours as well as other spiritual movements that exist in the world today, is to wake mankind up to this, to this, to the understanding of what is coming. And Gururaj is like that voice calling in the wilderness saying, "Hey! This is where we're going." If we continue this way for another twenty five years, we're going to have a crisis on our hands of the proportion that existed in those Atlantean days. Now those who are living pure lives, those who are tuned into the divine will, those people will know where to be at those times. They will be forewarned. They will know where to be. They will go to the right places at the right moment. Now that's provided that this purification force will be necessary! But we make that decision. That's up to us! We don't have to go through that. All we have to do is stop our ways of thinking, feeling, and behaving, and change them. If we start to think, feel, and behave in different ways, we will not have to go through that process. And the transition from this age int o the next age will be a very simple transition. Otherwise it could be a very, very difficult one. But in any case, those who are living pure lives will know where to be at those moments, and they will be protected. After all, they will be the seeds for the new civilization after that purifying force has had its, uhh, had its way. Now many of you here have probably read the Edgar Cayce readings or something like this. You've read ... You've heard something about the predicted earth changes. That certain planet ... That certain continents would break apart and go under and this sort of thing. And others would rise. And so on. And so on. These are not necessary. Remember that

11. US 77-7 Edgar Cayce in those readings said over and over again that if mankind changes his way of thinking, feeling and behaving, this will not be necessary. But if he doesn't, we will go through another Atlantean cycle like that. So you see, there are certain elements in that which are probably literal like say the fact that they sailed away in ships an d things like that. And they probably had that, that specification. And ... But most of it is a symbolic story of, umm, of this same process which repeats itself over and over and over and over again. And that's what ... We're living in such an age. We're living in such an age. And we can do something about it. We can change the direction of mankind. Now I don't mean "we" just in the sense of our movement, but as humanity. As humanity. Yes? CHELA: Uhh, Walter, in talking about the trinity when you were here some time ago you talked about how, uhh, Maharishi was, uhh, ... Thought of himself as John the Baptist and as a form of ... [Tape shut off momentarily.] [Resuming.] AMRIT: Uhh, how much one gains from spiritual practice involves more than just the practice itself. It involves the way we relate to the practice. It involves the way we lead the rest of our lives. I mean, the part of our lives where we are not meditating. Obviously. It involves how open we are to receiving the spiritual energies which are engendered through that spiritual practice and so on. There are just dozens of factors involved in it. Now if you're doing a meditation practice where you're just told, "Meditate twice a day, and everything takes care of itself, or something like that." And therefore there's no stimulus to consciously work on trying to engender more of the spiritual energy very consciously and also working on your own individual life. Then the effects of the technique that you are doing can be far less than they would be otherwise; whereas if there is a conscious pursuit of the spiritual life where you are organizing and arranging your life in such a way and helping yourself in such a way as to overcome your weaknesses, to work on your problems consciously and to consciously pursue an opening to the spiritual forces that work in the universe. If you do that, then you're going to get so much more from whatever technique that you're doing. There's just no comparison. You see? So one can not evaluate a spiritual technique alone. It's a whole program of spiritual development. OK? An entire sort of programming your life for spiritual development. That's what you have to consider when you consider how much you're developing. And the meditation is only one part of that. Only one part of that. That can't be emphasized too strongly. That can't be emphasized too strongly.

12. US 77-7 CHELA: So this is not the total answer. Each of us as individuals have to find the answer ourselves. AMRIT: Oh, no, no ... CHELA: Meditation is helping us ... AMRIT: Yes. Meditation is a tool. It is just a tool. A very important one and a useful one. But just a tool. And never to be seen as a panacea or as the answer to all questions or something like that. Very, very important. Now ... Yes, Michael? MICHAEL: Can we take a little stretch? AMRIT: Yes, let's take a little break. [Tape shut off momentarily.] [Resuming.] AMRIT: ... in a critical stage in the development of A M S where in order for us to move on, we've got to have some sort of central coordinating center, uhh, where all information and all questions and so forth can be referred to. In other words, what we need is a national center. OK? A national coordinating center. And uhh, hopefully a national coordinating secretary. Ok? Someone who will be there, that can answer the phone, that can answer inquiries, that will receive our mail and distribute it into the proper places, that will have applications for deepening courses, that will know what's going on around the country and so on. Uhh, it's very, very difficult to continue to function very long without having that. When we started in England, umm, for the first several months, Gita and I, or for a month and a half or so, Gita and I were working out of other people's homes. Just in London. That is, we had several devoted meditators there who just opened up their homes to us, and we were using three or four homes. And so all the literature that we put out, the advertisements, the whatever it was that we sent out, had about three or four telephone numbers on it. And we were very

13. US 77-7 difficult to track down! People, people became very frustrated trying to get a hold of us. And I wonder sometimes how many people we lost during those, that first month and a half just because they called us five times and couldn't get us and decided it wasn't worth it. In any case, umm, it became evident very quickly that we needed a center, and uhh, we started one in London which originally was just our flat. We worked right out of our flat on the upper story of a building. And then very quickly the people on the bottom story and the middle story moved out, and we took over the whole building. And none too quickly either. And Gita and I lived on the top floor, and the bottom two floors were a center. And then eventually we moved out of the center altogether and moved out into the country a ways. But then we had ... An d commuted back and forth to the center. Now what we're ... What we need to do is to establish a national center which doesn't have to be very large or elaborate in any way. In fact, just an office, a moderate sized office, with a couple of extra rooms in it would do perfectly well. It doesn't have to be in a particularly expensive neighborhood or anything like this. It can be a very modest affair. But we do, we really do need that, and we would hope that it would be something that if we do have to pay for it, that we wouldn't have to pay more than say two hundred dollars a month, something like that, or two hundred and fifty dollars a month to have it. Yes? CHELA: Good luck! AMRIT: Is that possible? CHELA: Yes. CHELA 2: With good luck it is! Yes. [Several persons speaking at the same time.] AMRIT: Some caves. CHELA: I mean, listen. If anybody's entitled to a little luck, Walter, you are. I mean don't worry about it. AMRIT: OK. [Shushes the group quiet.]

14. US 77-7 Now we have the possibility that one man living in the Bay area may be able to help us to find a place and perhaps even help us with the rental on it. I don't know. I'm not even going to say who this is until I've talked to him about it, but he's made what seemed to me to be sort of overtures in that direction. So it's possible that we'll have some help coming from someone else that way. But umm, I don't think we should depend on that. I think we should be thinking ourselves about what to do about this. We need a telephone obviously with two or three lines coming in. Get the little push button telephones so that if two calls come at the same time, the person doesn't get put off. We, we had that in England. We're very glad that we do because there are certain hours during the day when all the telephone calls tend to come. If you've got three lines, you can always pick them up. Otherwise people get very frustrated, and they stop calling the center because they say, "Every time I call, the line is tied up, and I never can get in!" So we need that and obviously a few pieces of office equipment. Like it would be nice if we had a ... What do we call them here now? A duplicator. A, a, a mimeo. Right. See, in England they're called a Roneograph machines. There's such a different vocabulary there! I mean, it's just entirely different! So we need a few things like that. And it would be nice if we had a good typewriter, too. If we could get a hold of a typewriter. Umm, ahh! One other thing we really need! One of these. A tape duplicator like the one Guruji's bringing to South Africa. And eventually, hopefully by the time he comes next summer, it would be nice if we could have a good, ordinary tape recorder. That is with the reel to reel tape. A good, high quality one so that when we tape the lectures we get really excellent masters. And then from those we can make several masters on good quality cassette tape which can be sent around the world because each country, when he comes there, the tapes that we get have to be sent to all other countries so that they get those tapes too. So this is just an outline of some of the physical things that we need right now. But obviously we need more. We need ... Uhh, you know, an organization is far more than the physical things, but these are some of the basic physical things. Yes? CHELA: [Unintelligible.] ... I know of a really good, second hand, reel to reel that a friend of mine wants to sell because he just got better equipment. It's in excellent ... It's almost ne w. AMRIT: Really? CHELA: It's an excellent piece of machinery. AMRIT: Tell him to keep us in mind then. OK? Would be very nice. Umm, OK. What do you think? What do we do? Where do we start? How do we begin? It's up ... Come on.

15. US 77-7 CHELA: Location, Walter. You want to be on the peninsula, right? AMRIT: I thought it would probably be best to be in the peninsula for this one simple reason because that's where most of the meditators in the Bay area are. Now this is in a certain sense arbitrary. I mean, one could choose anywhere. The reason it's not, the one reason which would make it not arbitrary is that that's where most of the meditators are. That's why we chose London to be our national center in England, and why we chose a certain part of London because that's where the great majority of our meditators came from. And they're the ones who do ... See, we want to do as much as possible on a volunteer basis. In other words, we want to have as few paid employees as possible. This is one of the reasons why we have to train lots of teachers. So that no one teacher will have to spend much of their time. That, that just a few hours, maybe an average of just six or eight hours a month or ten hours a month something like that. If a person wanted to become a teacher, they wouldn't give any more time than that so that they would be able to spend time with their families and their work and things like this. So we want to keep as few paid employees as possible, and that means having as many volunteers to do work in the national center as possible. Now in England, we have two paid secretaries plus another person that's sort of on half time pay. And they handle all of this, all of the work that has to be done continuously on a day to day basis like keeping books. We've got to have a good set of books there at the center all the time. They have to be open so anyone can see them at any time. OK? We have to have, when people apply for deepening courses, for one day events, things like this. All this has to be done through the national office. If it isn't, we lose the possibility of becoming a non profit organization because if it ... In other words, if we don't keep track of the money that's coming in and it's not all kept track of in one central office, then we're ... If the money isn't all accounted for we're in real trouble with the IRS. And then we've got to sweat that one, and we can get along without that kind of problem. So there are certain things that a secretary would have to do on a daily basis and keep up all the time. And there we need people that are paid staff members to do that sort of thing. Initially just one. I would think, would be sufficient to do that. Eventually we'd have to have two secretaries. VOICE: Is it possible the rates might be a little cheaper if some other location were considered, like I heard someone say [Daily?] City, or San Berno, or something like that.

16. US 77-7 AMRIT: Then, you see, we're getting so far away from where the meditators are, Catherine. It's the same thing in London. Many people said, "Why are you having a national center in London? It's so expensive." Answer: we've got 500 meditators there. And in the whole rest of the country we've only got 500 other meditators. There's 1000. There's 1200 maybe now. So, in other words, we've got to have the center where the people are so it's 10 15 minutes for them to get to where the center is to do whatever work. Because the secretary, though they will be there on a daily basis, a good portion of the work.... For instance, every time there's a meeting, meditators in the area will come in to address the things that have to be mailed and send them off. And... [END OF SIDE ONE] expensive premises. VOICE: [CATHERINE?] ...people are close to San Francisco. AMRIT: No, no, down on the peninsula. See, if you think of Stanford University as being sort of like the center there, then stretching within about five miles in diameter I would say is where the majority of...is that right? VOICES: Yes. VOICE: What about growth? What do you think about growth? Are you going to stay on the peninsula? Are you going to go to northern California? Are you going to go south to San Jose? AMRIT: We're talking about a national center now, ok. Now does this clear up what we mean by a national and local center? Yes, go ahead. VOICE: There are certain areas down around El Camino and Menlo Park [inaudible] office buildings. A few law firms, nothing fancy, and I think they're probably within $225 $250. Maybe $275.... VOICE: I don't think it's going to be a problem. I know places right now [voices offering suggestions].... AMRIT: Really? In a place that I know of there? That's very nice. [VOICES OFFERING SUGGESTIONS AND LAUGHING] Are you serious? Is that open?

17. US 77-7 VOICE [BARBARA?]: I'm serious. I don't guarantee that particular suite, but there is a suite there. Depending upon what you have to have. The amount of space that you need. You know, the size of that space may not be very large, but if you're talking about money and [unintelligible] accommodation, we do definitely have that space. AMRIT: Really? CHELA 2: Were you interested in a combination of living quarters and an office? AMRIT: Uhh, no. Absolutely. One thing I decided after the London experience, I will never again live in a center. Ever. Because you never leave your work. OK? You never leave your work. That's what it was like when we were living up above the London center. That's why we finally moved out because for one year we just never left our work. And we want to live a balanced life too. Gita and I want to live a balanced life too. Now initially for the first six weeks or eight weeks that I'm back here, I don't care where I live then. But eventually, we want to have our own little place. Whether it's a flat or where ever it is, we want to have our own little place to live. So we're not thinking about living quarters but just about facilities for use. Uhh, I wouldn't recommend anyone else do that either. Now it's a little different when you're first starting a local center in a local area, then we usually depend on working out of meditators homes. But we usually use the homes of several different meditators. And the main thing there is just that we get a telephone, and we can sometimes can get, the local center there will sometimes just rent their own telephone and then have it manned several evenings a week at certain hours by local meditators so that people can get a hold of us by phone. But we can't, definitely don't want to start renting centers in local areas until the local meditators will take the full responsibility for keeping it. We are not going to ever get in the situation where we depend on monthly donations from initiations to rent a center. That's a prescription for disaster. That's a prescription for disaster. What we really need is enough devotion ... Let's say that you've got a center in San Jose. OK? And over a period of two years you get three hundred and fifty meditators there. Now if those three hundred and fifty meditators are willing to spend, each of them, just a dollar a month, OK?, you can have a nice center in San Jose. If they'll do that regularly so that they can pay for the center, then there will be a local center that will be a physical center in San Jose. If they're not willing to do that, there won't be a center there. It's that simple. I think that's the best idea because if we start depending on initiation donations, you know what happens. They go up one month. They go down the next. Right. Then you get all commercial and all that mess that you get into with that. So we should try and avoid that, I think.

18. US 77-7 But as far as the initial center is concerned, that can double both as a national center as well as a local center for the Palo Alto, general Palo Alto area. That's peninsula area down there. In other words, during the day it would be offices for the national center, and in the evenings and weekends it would be used as a local center too. So we can double up there. But we have to be careful not to financially overextend ourselves. Then you're worried all the time if you're going to be able to make it the next month. OK? Did you have something in mind, Joan, that you brought this up? JOAN: No, I was just trying to get a clearer picture of what you'd be looking for so that I could see if I [unintelligible]. AMRIT: Now incidentally, if someone else wants to live on the premises, I certainly don't care. I don't think anyone else would care. But it's a little hard. I would just warn anyone who wanted to do that that it's rather hard to live on the premises where you're working. You just feel like you never leave it. Ever. Yes? CHELA: It seems like you need to get together like a bunch of people who want to tithe a certain amount and get an idea of how much ... [Unintelligible.] AMRIT: Hmm, hmm, hmm, that's a good point. Umm, we need to have a big meeting. Get as many people as we can from the Palo Alto area together to talk about this. But meanwhile that wouldn't prevent people from looking around at property. How many of you here would be willing to spend a Saturday or a Sunday going out and looking for ... Or if you've got some time during the week, going out and looking for property? Would you? Would you do it too? CHELA: Are we talking about looking for offices? AMRIT: Yes, looking for umm, umm ... Yes, offices and ... Yes, you would too? Lovely. CHELA 2: Yes. Are you talking about just Palo Alto area now? AMRIT: Well, when we say the peninsula area, I think I mean somewhere within a several mile radius of the center part of Palo Alto. Something like that. Within several miles. That could be Menlo Park. It could be, I suppose, Sunny Vale or Atherton. Atherton, Redwood City, right in that general area there. Uhh, so ...

19. US 77-7 CHELA: Near a freeway so it's easier for people to get there? AMRIT: That would be more convenient, wouldn't it, if we weren't too far from the freeway? That place that you were talking about on Willow Road was very convenient. That was about four or five minutes ride from the Bay Shore Freeway. So that's a possibility. Uhhuh, yes? CHELA: [Unintelligible. Several persons speaking at the same time.] CHELA 2: They've really gone up though. Commercial properties have really gone up. CHELA: Yeh. AMRIT: I bet you they're asking five hundred a month for it now. CHELA 2: Last two years commercial property has really taken a big jump. AMRIT: Be worth checking out though, wouldn't it? CHELA 3: That, that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of little places around where people are just happy to get what they've been getting all these years. CHELA: Right. Right. CHELA 2: Can always walk out. AMRIT: Yes, right. We can always walk out. CHELA: I say it depends what you feel that you need in terms of you want a lot of rooms, you want one room, you want two rooms. You know.

20. US 77-7 AMRIT: Now this is what I had in mind. You can talk this over amongst yourselves. By the way, please don't ... When I leave, go ahead and just take it in your hands and start looking. Don't, don't wait for me to come back. Look around. But this is what I had in mind. This is the sort of thing I was thinking about. If we had an office/reception area and then maybe a couple of rooms, one that could be used for counseling and healing and another room that could be used for Roneo machines and office duplication material and things like this. Which could also be used perhaps for initiations. Now maybe in the end we will want to continue doing initiations in people's homes, and that's fine too. CHELA: ... smaller which would make the amount of office space smaller too. AMRIT: Uhhuh. Uhhuh. CHELA: I'm kind of in favor of [unintelligible] for small office space. AMRIT: Yes. I, I ... Listen. I agree with you. I'm in favor of doing everything to keep our overhead small! You know, th e physical overhead as small as possible. CHELA 2: Uhh, Walter? AMRIT: Yes. CHELA 2: How many square feet are you talking about? AMRIT: Well, I'm not very good at square feet. So let's look at it this way. Suppose we had a front office that was about from here square [apparently measuring off]. In other words, that wall over like that and maybe a couple of rooms behind it off there. Something like that. It could even be a bit smaller than that, you see? [General movement around in the room.] The whole would be maybe half the size of this room. Right. Does that sound feasible for say two fifty a month? CHELA 2: I'm sure [unintelligible] for that. AMRIT: Just keep away from new property.

21. US 77-7 CHELA: That's right! CHELA 2: Plenty of places we're going to be able to find at that price. CHELA 3: There are just tons of places on the peninsula right now all sizes and shapes. AMRIT: Now what we can do is once we have it, people will, many people I'm sure will be willing to give office furniture. Like Jess. And, uhh, perhaps we'll find somebody who will donate a Roneo machine, or excuse me, a duplicator and so on. So I think these things will tend to come. We don't need to have expensive property that already has, umm, that's already furnished with desks and things like that which makes it go much higher immediately. So that's fine. And if it's not in terribly good condition, provided that it's in a reasonable neighborhood, in a reasonably decent neighborhood ... I mean, we don't want to go right into a slum because people will be afraid to go there. They just, you know, they won't go there. But provided that it's a reasonably good neighborhood even if it's not in terribly good condition, we can get togethe r and fix it up. I mean, we can patch it up and make it look very nice. BARBARA: We have all this space available just about two blocks from where I work. It's between hundred and hundred and seventy five a month. Now I haven't looked at that space to see how much it is, but that's right now off Sherman Avenue and Palo Alto. What would you say? What? It's about three or four blocks from where I work. So I want to check that one. AMRIT: Lovely. OK. Well, if we can keep our rental down to two hundred a month, that would be really nice. No more than two hundred a month. That would be really good! Because certainly our telephone is going to be the major expense. I mean, we found this in England that we spent more money on telephones than anything else. And here we've got all these places like Las Vegas and New York and things like this. And we have to keep coordinating with them. And while you can write ... You can do a certain amount of that with letters by post, the majority of it, particularly when you're getting close to a time when Gururaj is coming or something, is going to be a lot of phone calls, and that runs up money. OK. So there's, umm, ... We have several people who are going to start looking now. Now who, who's going to act as the coordinator here? Oh, Barbara is the coordinator. Do you want to continue acting as that? For these spaces?

22. US 77-7 CHELA: We'll all call Barbara. BARBARA: I've got the law laid down at my job, and nobody can call me at my work any more. And I'm never at home. So, uhh ... I, umm, ... [Unintelligible. Several persons joking at the same time.] I think what I'd like is for everybody if you have some places to check out, check them out and let me know what you find. I have a couple of places that I'm going to check out, one of which I'm hoping does pan out. That one that I mentioned because, I mean, that's very convenient to my own current working office, and it is centrally located. So if that were the place, if I'm going to be, you know, working with this a lot, that would be preferable to me. But that's my preference. So I ha ve one or two places to check out. And if you just individually have places to check out, check them out and let me know as soon as you can so that say by the end of October, all the bids are in. And then I'll just confer with the people who have given me an input of some place, I guess. And between us, we will decide which is the place, I guess, is the reasonable way to do that unless somebody's got a better plan. AMRIT: OK. CHELA: ... that means you will be acting as coordinating secretary, right? BARBARA: Yes ... AMRIT: Now the only consideration as far as size is concerned is that there should be enough room in the office so that when you're doing a mailing, for instance, you can get six or eight people in that office to be working together. You see what I mean? They don't have to all be in the same room, but you want to be able to get six or eight people in there so that they're not literally with their elbows in each others teeth. See? That's if we do a national mailing ... CHELA: That's the personal touch? AMRIT: Beg pardon? That's the personal touch. Right. Ok. Did you want to say something?

23. US 77-7 CHELA: No, no. I think we'll talk about it after we get the place lined up. It was, it was thinking about, I was thinking about people to help finance at the beginning. I think we have to put money down to get it. I mean I could have several people sign for that. CHELA 2: Barbara here will sign for it. AMRIT: Now I have an idea here ... [Interrupted by joking.] I have an idea ... What we need to do ... Look it, we can't dump everything on Barbara because she's got a job. CHELA: Well, why not?! I mean ... [General commotion.] AMRIT: What we really need here is a center finding coordinating chairman. In other words someone who is not going to themselves go out and look for a center but who's going to coordinate the activities of those who are. So it's got to be sort of their responsibility. BARBARA: But wasn't the plan I suggested easy enough? It seemed easy to me. AMRIT: You can do it that way if you like. BARBARA: That's easy enough for me. I mean, if anybody cares enough to go out and look for a place, do it and let me know what you find. And ... AMRIT: Well, we have quite a few now. You said that you would. BARBARA: Well, just call me if you find something that you think looks good.

24. US 77-7 CHELA: But may I make a suggestion, please, because I hear something and I have to follow that through. One is that she has been having too many calls at the office. I know that. We've been guilty of it ourselves. The other is she isn't home very much. So where is the connecting point? If you can't make one place that you meet at ten o'clock on Thursday night or, or eleven o'clock on Sunday morning someplace so that you get together on this, then the other way is for you to take the names down of the people ... BARBARA: That means that I've got to call them. The easiest thing for me is if anyone who is interested finding a place goes out and looks. You can call me at home. I'm there almost always late in the evening. I'm always there early in the morning. And I, I am at home enough between now and October thirtieth if you call me, you'll get me. AMRIT: Do, do we want to make use of the services of an estate agent now. I'm sorry, real estate agent. In England ... CHELA: We have one. We have one. CHELA 2: We have several. AMRIT: Oh, we have one right here. but, uhh ... Oh, you're an estate agent! I see. OK. Real estate agent. OK. CHELA: You're active in the peninsula area, are you? CHELA 3: Yes. CHELA: It might be easier for him to do it, and when he finds the two or three places that are best, then get you in there, Barbara. BARBARA: Does that mean the other people wouldn't be looking? CHELA: Let them call him. BARBARA: Let them call him?

25. US 77-7 [Unintelligible. Several persons talking at once.] CHELA 4: ... can coordinate it. That doesn't mean that he has to do the whole thing. CHELA: Right. Right. He can coordinate it, and talk to you about it, you know? That's all. That will save you all those phone calls. BARBARA: OK. Everybody calls ... AMRIT: Lovely. Do you feel, do you feel like you've been bludgeoned into this? You have. CHELA: That's what you call a railroad job. BARBARA: Clarence, why don't you write your phone number on the blackboard? Oh, you've got a card. [Unintelligible. Several persons talking at once.] AMRIT: I was thinking. If you find something really good, it's liable to get swallowed up real fast. I would not wait. I would recommend snapping it up immediately if you think it's really good and it's liable to get swallowed up fast. If it's, if you've got quite a lot of choice, you know, there's nothing to particularly recommend it over something else, then, uhh, probably about mid November would be a good time to ... CLARENCE: What you're saying is get started looking ... AMRIT: Yes. Start soon. Right away. CLARENCE: ... long time.

26. US 77-7 AMRIT: I'll be back. I'll tell you when I'll be back now. I should be back by about mid November. Umm, I have some meetings in London which I have to attend from the twelfth to the thirteenth. Very important! Then I'm going to spend two days, two or three days, all alone with Gita. We're not going to see anyone, so we can just have some time together before we leave. So I should be coming around the fifteenth or so back here. And I'll just fly directly from London to New York because it's cheaper and then from New York to San Francisco. So, umm, I should be back on the fifteenth, maybe the sixteenth. Now it would be nice if the first weekend after I came back we could have an all day event on a Sunday, like the ones that I described. Was everyone here when we ... Were you all here when I talked about this? VOICES: No. AMRIT: Well, what we would do, what we would do is we would get a place something like the Menlo Park Recreation Center if this is suitable and umm, which would accommodate sixty, seventy, eighty people comfortably. And the thing would start. It would be on a Sunday. That's probably the best day. And it would start out about two thirty in the afternoon. It would start out with an advanced lecture from about two thirty until about four. Then we would break and have a cup of coffee or tea, and then there would be group practices from about four thirty, four forty five, until I don't know about six o'clock or so. And then at six o'clock we would break and have a dinner which could be a potluck dinner or it could be catered by some ..., by people here if they wish to do. It's up to the, up to whatever people want to do. I think probably initially, the first time, it would probably be better just to have a potluck. BARBARA: Potluck. AMRIT: And then at about seven o'clock at night, seven or seven thirty, seven probably, we would start our evening meeting which would go on till about ... And that would be just a question and answer session, just a satsang, question and answer session. And that can go on as late as you want. People could leave around eight thirty if they wanted to or they could stay later. Now what we found in England is that for these events people tend to stay until ten, eleven o'clock at night because by the evening session, everyone gets so warmed up. And things really start flowing. But people can leave when they want

27. US 77-7 in that evening session. And umm, this has turned out to be the best program of any kind that we've held in England as far as attendance is concerned. Far more people come to that than regular advanced lectures, and far more people than come to weekend deepening courses. So we just call it a one day deepening course. OK? Deepening course because it deepens experience and deepens knowledge. So we could do this perhaps on the first Sunday ... VOICE: The twentieth. AMRIT: That would be the twentieth? Sunday, the twentieth? OK. We can do that then. Who knows? Maybe we'll have a center by then. ... will have a center by then. CHELA: Before we have a center, we have to get all the money for Walter's ticket back. And I've been collecting a lot of it in my back pocket, and if anyone who would like to, uhh, ... BARBARA: Stuff her back pocket. CHELA: Stuff my back pocket some more. I'm, uhh, looking forward to receiving that, and we're getting, we're over half way to the amount that we would need. Three hundred and fifty dollars, and he doesn't get anything to eat. BARBARA: We'll make you a sack lunch. CHELA: Margrite packs an excellent lunch. Chris and I can vouch for that. AMRIT: As a matter of fact, I usually take her lunches with me anyway, and I don't eat much of what they give me on the plane. Unless you fly Swiss Air or India Air, Air India, you don't usually get a very good meal. Now on Swiss Air, it's fantastic! But you know, there'd be no point. I'm not going to Switzerland, am I? CHELA: So, if you would like to help and contribute to that, we would like to thank everyone because people have been extremely generous. Umm, just give it to me because I'm taking care of it. HAROLD: I'll keep it for you for safe keeping.

28. US 77-7 AMRIT: OK. Harold is acting as our treasurer here, as an interim treasurer. Are you still committed to the idea until July if we get things all straightened around and get our ... HAROLD: Uhh, let's discuss it later. AMRIT: We'll discuss it later. HAROLD: We'll see about that. AMRIT: OK. OK. Umm, now ... CHELA: You said earlier about having a lot of teachers, but, uhh, what plans do you have for teacher training? AMRIT: OK. Now that's going to be a major thing that we're going to start this autumn. We're going to start a teacher training program, first of all, for prep instructors. And when that program is completed in several months, we'll go on to t he counselors. And uhh, uhh, right now in England, we're training thirty five new prep instructors. We just started them several weeks ago on their training. And that's why Gita has to stay in England when I come back here initially because she and Robert Meridith together have to continue finishing up with working with these prep instructors. Umm, and then the, the program for training prep instructors is eighty five to ninety percent completed, and it can be done in a series of ... Well, put it this way. It won't be very difficult to do because it can be done by meeting ... We can either meet one night a week, or we can meet once a month for a weekend. Either way. Now that's what we're doing in England because we bring people from all over England to London. See. It's very simple. It's such a small country. Far smaller than the state of California. So if you have people coming all the way up say from Liverpool down to London, they get on a fast train. They're there in two and a half hours. And uhh, so we have them come once a month or once every five weeks or so for a weekend. And then they go back and they just work and study in their local area.

29. US 77-7 So we can do it however you want. I mean, this is very flexible. We can set it up any way you like. But there's got to be a good systematic training program for doing this. Initially it will be for being a prep instructor and then for becoming a counselor and learning how to check all the full techniques and so forth as well as do personal counseling. And this will involve reading books. We've got quite a book list now. Quite a number of books on the book list too. Uhh, many different areas to be reading. It will involve, umm ... And this is also somewhat flexible. I mean, teachers can have some choice about this. It will involve listening to certain tapes. It will involve especially a lot of time learning how to teach which is quite different from just learning material. OK? Learning how to teach. Practicing essentially. It starts out with a communications course. How to talk about meditation. How to talk about spiritual growth. OK? Just to communicate. Anyone can take this. You don't have to make any commitments to be a teacher, uhh, or anything like that. It's just a communications course. When you finish that, then you have prep teacher training. When you finish that, then on to the counselor training and so on. CHELA: Are you planning on any money on this? Or what? AMRIT: Beg pardon? CHELA: Are, are ... AMRIT: Yes, there will be some, some charge, a very modest charge for teacher training. And it will pay for materials that you'll get like tapes and things like this and also for ... We'll have to have some periods of more intensive time together like maybe a whole day or a weekend or something like this. And we'll make it a very modest charge. CHELA: OK. I'm just concerned about how ... AMRIT: Oh, no, no, no, no. When I say charges, I mean that I think most people would become, uhh ... The process of becoming a prep teacher might cost them twenty five dollars. The process of becoming a counselor might cost fifty or sixty dollars. I mean, that's just a rough guess. I don't know. But umm, it will be well within anyone's economic capabilities. We never ever want to prevent someone from becoming a teacher for either of two reasons, either because

30. US 77-7 they don't have money or because they, you know, they can't take long periods of time off to go away for long periods of time. In other words, the training will be done in your local area. Although when people become a counselor, they will be expected to come on a course with Gururaj. That's very important. Uhh, uhh, one of these courses like this for five, six days. Something like that. Because he wants to spend time with people ... [Unintelligible.] CHELA: Amrit, it's four o'clock. AMRIT: Four o'clock. OK. So that means that we've got another meeting now for the teachers. All those people that are teaching now, who are involved in teaching in some way, should come to that. Umm, where is that? Is that going to be here? Is Guruji coming over here? CHELA: Yes. BARBARA: He's here. CHELA 2: Not that I know of, Walter. I don't think he ... [unintelligible] AMRIT: Beg pardon? CHELA 2: I don't think so. Not until the satsang tonight. AMRIT: OK. Then it must be over there. So we'll all have to head for over there. And uhh, please go right ahead and get working on looking for this property. ****END****

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