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1. U S 78 - 9 QUESTION: Could you explain the difference between the individual soul and the manifest personality, and how these two things affect seeking for self realization? GURURAJ: Good. Another question. VOICE: Ah, let's see. Bill GU RURAJ: It's very easy to do about a dozen at a time. QUESTION: Guruji, this is more of a follow up question to, you spoke on Saturday, ah, you spoke of how we must come to realize and experience the divinity within ourselves and our fellow human beings so that we may become one with them. You also spoke of how we must learn to objectify the workings of the mind and of our emotions. Don't we have to take care that in objectifying our emotions we do not become falsely detached from the world and other pe ople and thus are not able to learn the lessons we need to learn from experiences with others and, as a result, that we may not truly be able to reach a oneness with our fellow human beings. GURURAJ: Beautiful. Next? VOICE: Ah, Evan. QUESTION: Ah, o h yeah! What is the difference between faith and belief, and how do you keep a teaching from becoming a belief? GURURAJ: Good. Let's start with those three. Good. We might start with the last one first. It'll all be intermingled. Fi ne. How does o ne distinguish between faith and belief? Good. Now, to be able to distinguish between faith and belief, we have to understand what belief is, and we also have to understand what faith is. Fine. A belief is something more to do with the mind. You believe in a thing and that belief has some form of rationalization attached to it. You rationalize a thing, you look at this carpet on the floor, you use your eyes, you use the other senses that are involved, and you believe that this carpet is green, because i t is producing some evidence for you to your senses and through your senses to reach a certain conscious level of your mind. And therefore you believe. Good.

2. U S 78 - 9 Now, belief cannot stand on its own altogether. Belief necessarily must have faith. But then, when faith develops totally, then belief diminishes. Belief is not annihilated, but belief integrates itself into that which is called faith. So, we start from the exterior level of the mind with various analysis. When we read a book, for example, becaus e of our past experiences or our trend of thought or our attitudes towards life, you read an author's work and you believe what he says. You believe that this sounds true. Why does it sound true to you, why does it convince you? Because your mind is att uned or has had previous experiences or previous thoughts of a similar nature so that you can believe what the man says. You have a friend who you know who would never tell a lie. And, because you know that, because of your experience with him in the pas t, whatever he tells you today you will believe him that "John is telling me the truth." So belief always has associations, and those associations occur in the mind. But now how to convert belief into faith? That is the question. Now, faith requires no analysis. Faith is a heart quality, while belief is a quality of the mind; but belief and faith can join hands when the mind and the heart join each other. So when the heart has faith, you know immediately from the heart level, a level of knowingness, that this is right. And when you feel that this is right, you have faith in it, because you are operating from a different level altogether. It is not entirely from a spiritual level, but it is from the d eeper, finer, subtler, subconscious level than whi ch belief operates upon. Belief has more to do with the conscious level of the mind, while faith has more to do with the subtler layers of the mind. Good. So there, too, there is an association, an association of ideas, an association of experiences, bu t those experiences where faith is involved is of a subtler level because faith stems from a more subtler level. So the difference between faith and belief is this, that one is a cognition from a gross level, while the other is a cognition from a subtler level. Now, when any cognition takes place from the subtler level of oneself or from within oneself, that normally becomes more powerful, and therefore the saying is this, that faith can move mountains. It is never said, "Belief can move mountains." Y ou see the difference? Because belief is of more superficial, of a conscious level, while faith is of a subtler level, and that subtle, subatomic matter has such force that it could move the highest, strongest, biggest, stoutest mountain. So now this mean s the faith is definitely more powerful than belief. A man can believe anything and that belief might not be true. You go and see a magician show and the magician on the stage makes you believe in all the tricks he does, and to your senses they seem so r eal. He turns a white hanky into an orange one, and an orange one into a blue one, and all kinds of illusions can take place. So the next point we are coming to is this, that belief can be illusory. Belief can also be caused not only by one's own associ ation of ideas, but by external circumstances. A friend of yours uses a certain kind of therapy and he has found that therapy to be useful for him. So you would believe that, because it is useful for him, it would be useful for you; and yet we know what is meat for one would be poison for the other. Yet the belief can be false.

3. U S 78 - 9 It could delude you into thinking that this is good for him, so it must be good for me. You go to the cinema and because a friend of yours tells you, "Oh, it's a lovely film," y ou believe that, and you go and see that film. And believe you have not seen it yet. But because you believe your friend. Talking of cinemas, when I was a young man I used to belong to a club. We played table tennis. I used to love that game. Now, we had one agreement. When all the other members of a club insisted on going to see a film, I would say that that film is no go od for me. And when I say a film was wonderful, they would not go and see it. They wanted the kind of things that would appeal to them, and of course I wanted the kind of films that would appeal to me, something on a higher plane, a more intellectual pla ne where there's thought required and things like that. I would like to go and see Richard III or Hamlet, while they would prefer to go and see 007. That kind of thing. You see, you see. So, nevertheless, that is just a diversion. But belief is someth ing which is not necessarily true. I said not necessarily true; it can be true. But yet it is very much on the superficial level and not on the deeper level of faith, because belief lacks the power of faith. You go to a doctor and, if you have the fait h he might not be a very good doctor but if you have developed faith in that doctor, you will find that whatever medicine he gives you will heal you. And many of the doctors use what is called placebos is that the word? Placebos. Yes. A bottle of colored water, sugar water. And, because you have that faith, you are healed. And this is the same thing which Jesus said when he healed people, that "your faith has healed you." You see? So faith is infinitely more powerful than belief. Now how to reach the area of faith? That would be the question. One can approach faith through belief. You believe in a thing, you experiment with a thing. We go back to this film, and you go and see this film which a friend has told you is good, and you see who t he director is, who the producer is. You have believed your friend and you have enjoyed the film; meanwhile, you have kept your eyes open to see who the director was of that film. So the next time another film comes out directed by the same director, you have faith in you that "Look, this man is capable of producing the kind of film which I will enjoy." So likewise in everything on Earth, belief can lead one to faith. That is one process. Then there is spontaneous faith, where there are certain things ha ppening within one's mental chemistry that leads one to have faith without the influence of the environment or without any conscious internal happening. You just have that faith that this is right. But that is not where it stops. The area where one real ly has to reach is the area of knowingness. So from belief to faith; and then from faith, one reaches the area of knowingness where you just know something is right. And by just knowing something is right, your faith is enhanced, your faith becomes stron ger. And if your faith becomes stronger on the subtler level, your belief, too, would become stronger. Good.

4. U S 78 - 9 When you go and apply for a job and you are feeling nervous about the job, if you are going to get it or not. Now, because of the qualificatio ns you have had, you know that you can do the job. You know that you can do the job. By knowing that you are capable for the position, you have that faith in you that you will get the job, and that very faith is expressed in the belief you have. That fait h is translated into action in the form of belief when you have the interview, and immediately the interviewer or the boss feels that this is the right man. So it has such a far reaching effect. The human mind is so, so powerful that you can achieve any thing on the relative plane by the human mind if you have faith enough. But now in our system, in our system of meditation, we don't start with belief and faith and then to know. We start at the knowledge point. We start at the source. We reach the sour ce within ourselves, and that source, the energy that emanates from that source, enhances the faith, and the faith makes belief a reality. Up to now, the belief can be real or unreal. You might have a false belief. You might believe Ponds cream is good for you. It might not be good for you, but you believed it was good for you until you tried it. Here we don't experiment. We reach the source and, from the source, the faith is strengthened; and, with the strength of that faith, the belief becomes a rea lity, an infallible reality that cannot go wrong. That is the difference. Good. What was yours again, to remind me, in a sentence? QUESTION: What is the difference between the personality that you manifest in any particular lifetime and the personality of your soul [inaudible]? GURURAJ: Um hm. The personality in another lifetime, what is the difference the question means, what is the difference in the personality of another lifetime and the personality or the expression in this lifetime? What is t he difference between the two, and what are the mechanics that makes this difference? Is that what you're trying to get at? QUESTION: Also, ah, the part of your soul that retains all the memories of your lifetime, does that thing in itself have a person ality [Inaudible]... GURURAJ: Um hm. Firstly, you don't have a soul. You do not have a soul. You are the soul, and if you are the soul, you are the personality. There is no difference between the personality you had in a previous life and the pers onality you have today, because it is the same soul. The difference that has occurred, the difference that is seemingly so, is that the child from Standard 2 has now passed to Standard 3. But he's still the same child. The child that was an infant has

5. U S 78 - 9 g rown to a young man, and the same young man has become an old man. Yet it's the same person. And the changes has occurred because of the various experiences that the mind has gone through. Now, when you talk of soul, "soul" is a word which has been used in many, many different contexts. Many people use the word "soul" to be the spirit, the reality within one. Many people use the word "soul" to express the personality of man or his entire mental makeup from the grossest to the subtlest level. I would pr efer to use the word "soul" in that context of the mind, from the gross to the subtlest level, because of its changeability. It changes all the time. At moments it finds a period of regression, and at moments it finds its periods of progression. But the underlying factor is always pushing forward. If you are in a circumstance of taking two steps back, always remember that you are gaining enough force to take four steps forward. So that means it is progressive evolution. The spirit within man does not require evolving. It is fully evolved. Divinity, which is spirit, does not require evolving, therefore we call our movement, not "spiritual development," but "spiritual unfoldment." It is there forever developed. Now, when we talk of development of the m ind, what we mean by that is not the increase of intellectual capacity, which many systems teach. Intellectual capacity could be useful in daily living, for your job, for example, and some jobs become so routine that no intellect is required. Actually, m ost jobs become that. If you have become a good lawyer, you don't need any brains anymore after that. It's an automatic routine process. Any lawyer will tell you that. Any accountant will tell you that, knowing his job, he does not need to exercise that mind so much. Here and there a little prodding and pushing. It becomes a routine thing. So, when we talk of mental development, what we mean by mental development is the clarification of the mind, is removing the impressions that have been left of past l ifetimes in the mind and to clear them as if one wants to still the pond from its ripples, so that the real self can be reflected in its total glory. The mind, as we have said over and over again, is always the stumbling block. It is always the stumbling block towards preventing this clear reflection. Good. Now, that is what we call by developing the mind. The better word would be "stilling" the mind, because no person, even Einstein, could have used more than ten percent of his mind. So you see the capacity the mind has. And yet with all the intellectualizations of the mind, all the rationalizations of the mind, where has man reached? He was a barbarian and he still is a barbarian. That time a primitive barbarian, today a more sophisticated barbar ian. That's all. We spoke about it yesterday. Good. So, there is a definite connection between the past life and the present life, and it is to be viewed as a continuation of th e past life. It is a continuum. We are viewing this present life from the narrowness of our awareness which is just ten percent conscious. And yet the continuum is so vast. It is beginless, it is endless. The mind, too, is infinite. Being th e manifestation of the manifestor, the mind, too, is infinite, and we are only viewin g a small minuscule section of the mind.

6. U S 78 - 9 And yet so much importance is paid to the mind, to that little speck which we know as our mind. And the less importance we pay to the mind, the more would we become aware of the vastness of the continuum that ther e is, of the vastness of this great mind which is the universal mind. And you are just one speck of dust in this universal concept. Now, this speck of dust has to continue on its journey. It has to follow through. So, how does it follow through? Tonigh t we go to bed, we go to sleep. Tomorrow we wake up. For those six hours or eight hours that a person sleeps, he has lost consciousness. The conscious mind has gone to sleep. Next morning, he awakes and he is still the same man. So from the past life to the present life, what man has done, he has just gone to sleep. That is all. He has just gone into a sleep not a sleep of the conscious layer of the mind, but also to be a great extent the subconscious layer of the mind. So, death is nothing more than a sleep, a rest, and you continue from where you have left behind. Fine. The only difference is this, that yesterday you had on a brown suit; today you put on a grey suit. But you are still the same person. The body will change as the suit changes , but you are none different. But one advantage we have, and the greatest gift that man has been given by God is the ability to forget, is the ability to forget. If you could remember all the doings of your past lives, you would land up in a lunatic asy lum. Yes. Definitely. Yes, yes. The greatest gift man has been given, to repeat again, is the ability to forget. Now you have yogis that have reached the stage and that are strong enough to remember, go past, go back, into their past lives and view th em objectively. But those that cannot view them objectively and some, due to a certain inexplicable mental chemistry, might just fall back into a past lifetime, and he lands up in a madhouse. That happens. Many people in madhouses are because of this ph enomenon which psychiatrists have to discover. A person in a madhouse, he knows nothing about playing the violin, and yet you'd find him sitting for hours doing just that all that time. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why the violin and not chopping wood? So the se are the answers. These actions when a person slips away into a previous existence, he repeats. Because having no control, he repeats his previous actions, for in his past life, he might have been a violinist. So, what I am trying to say is this, that l ife is a continuum and we continue from where we have left off. Now the ability to forget is a great boon to man, but there is one thing that is not erased. The memory of the action is erased, but the impression of the action stays. [Someone in backgrou nd speaking] Phone call from London? Tell them to ring back 7:53 8:15? 8:15? Tell them to ring back 8:15. It'll cost the same. I t's worked by minutes nowadays. I think it's always been that way, hasn't it. Yes, so, although man forgets all the instances in your past life, say a man has been a murderer, has killed so many people and he was electrocuted. Right. He will not remember all the actions, all his murderous actions, but the impression of those ac tions will be contained in this lifetime, and he, before taking this body, will chose the kind of body by

7. U S 78 - 9 which he can overcome these impressions that were created in that lifetime. That is why people, every person, is a unique person. That is why every p erson has to learn unique lessons. Even identical twins are different in characteristics. They, too, have to learn their lessons in their own way. And we are placed in circumstances by birth to be able to overcome the impressions that is clouding the mi nd. And that is the purpose of taking birth after birth after birth. That is why we get born again and again and again. The day when the mind becomes totally still, and when the mind becomes totally still, the ego becomes totally clarified, clean, and in that cleanliness of the ego, it merges away into the light which we call Divinity and no birth thereafter is necessary. And that is called liberation. You are liberated from what? You are liberated from birth and death. And births and deaths are there for us to learn. A man might complain that I have been born lame. Now why is the Lord so unjust to make me born lame? Or another complains that I am born blind. Another one says, "Oh, I am born so wealthy and healthy." It is our own doings, and that is where the law of karma applies. The law of karma applies only on the relative level. On the Absolute level there is no law of karma, there is no reincarnation, there is no life, and there is no birth. It is all one. So, to recapitulate, the present life is a continuum, a continuity, of the past life. And we have chosen to take this life. The choice was ours; nobody has forced us into this life. And we, in the form of the subtle body, have been floating around waiting for the right vehicle, waiting for the right genetic combination, to be brought into this world. And that is why we are thankful to our parents. Actually, they have not chosen us, we have chosen our parents. Yes. We choose our parents because of the proper genetic combination that t hey possess, and that is why we are born through them. We have chosen life; we have chosen our future. And that is a force which is a propulsion, and this very propulsion one could call divine will. And then, as man gets born and he develops awareness a s he grows up, as he grows up and becomes more and more conscious of himself, he will become more and more conscious of the tendencies that he has brought with him. The purpose of any spiritual practice is to overcome the tendencies. Good tendencies are t o be encouraged for further evolution. And bad tendencies are discouraged, because it causes regression or stagnation. You might have heard this little story of this Tibetan yogi called Milarepa. He said, "When I was a young man, I did all black deeds. When I became older and gained some knowledge, I started doing white deeds, good deeds. But now, I do neither; I am beyond the black and the white." So it means that he has attained freedom while still being alive, and that is called self realization wh ile still being in the embodied form. And this is possible for everyone. So this life is so useful. I don't know where the Hindus get the figures from, but they say that one has to take 8,400,000 births to reach the human stage. Imagine that long, lon g journey you've gone through, huh? 8,400,000 births to become a human being. What it

8. U S 78 - 9 actually means symbolically nobody has gone to count those figures. Even when I go into meditation, I can only go back to my third, fourth, fifth life backwards. Bu t I can't go back eight million lives yet. Yeah. Good. Now, what it actually means is this, that from that primal spark from the time you became individualized, individuated, there has been a long process through all these various manifestations, throug h all these various kingdoms of mineral, of plant, of animal, and then to man. How would you like to know that you were once a bug or a flea? Be careful next time when you find a bug or flea in your bed. Don't kill it; throw it out of the window. I hav en't got the guts to kill a flea. Good, fine. [He laughs.] Yea, yea. Nevertheless, what all this means is this, that we have come a long way. What it all means is this, that we have come a long, long way to reach the human stage. And even in the human stage, we have progressed so much in the evolutionary procession from the primitive man to the sophisticated man. In other words, we have when I say sophisticated man, I don't mean a better man. We have reached a certain sophistication where we are ab le to utilize our intellects more fully. Now, by being able to utilize our intellects more fully, it means that we can use our powers of discrimination more fully. And it is this very power of discrimination that will tell us what is good and what is not good. It is this very power of discrimination that will lead us from belief to faith. So when we are in this life, we are the sum total of that 8,400,000 lifetimes. We are the sum total of that, with all those impressions. Now, it has to be a large min d to contain all those impressions, and the mind is as vast as the universe. When you go deep into your meditation, when you can dive to the deepest layer consciously, when you can consciously dive progressively to the deepest layer, to the subtlest layer of relativity, you could view the entire universe. And then time stands still for you. There is no time, there is no space, and you view the entire universe, the entire creation, right in t hat flash, in that moment, and you become that moment. Now this can be achieved. I know what I'm talking about because I do it every day. Right. But that is not the end. That is not the end, that is only unfathoming the mystery of the universe , reaching to its most subtlest layer. But we go beyond that. So, it is not necessary to experience the entirety of the mind, but there is a direct path to the Absolute area, to the Kingdom of Heaven within. There is that direct path that man can reach that is not a short cut; but it is a direct cut. And the "direct cut" means that you do not need to relieve or go through all the experiences of those 8,400,000 births. For essentially you are divine, and what you are doing is just removing the layers, you're removing the colors, the veils that hide that Divinity which is wi thin you. He is not only within you, He is you. How can He be within you? If He was within you, it would mean that you are possessing Divinity. You can't possess Divinity. You can't possess a soul. You can't

9. U S 78 - 9 even possess yourself. You can't even poss ess your body. Who can? Who possesses what? What is there to possess really? Huh? And then people squabble about little things and petty jealousies. The wife is jealous of the husband and the husband is jealous of the wife, and that all stems from a se nse of insecurity, inadequacy, and possessiveness. Who's possessing what? Hm? I might be a multi millionaire today and tomorrow I might be broke as hell. And I've been through this three times, so I know what I'm talking about. Firstly, a millionaire by birth, which I discarded. It was illegal money. Secondly, a millionaire by marriage, which I discarded. I didn't want anyone else's money. Thirdly, I tried to make my own and became a millionaire, and discarded that too. And I sit here as a pauper and yet the richest man in the universe, because I hold the universe in the palm of my hands. [END SIDE ONE] I was looking in the wrong direction. There is a finger pushing. That you want riches? Ha, it is not in the possessions! I t is in anoth er direction. That is where all the riches lie. And that I have found, and that is what I am sharing with you. That's all that I'm doing. I'm telling you about myself and my experiences. And that is my teaching. So, always first practice those of you , some of you here are teachers and that would eventually become full counselors, now I would always say this: first practice, then preach. And avoid preaching. Teach people how to learn. It's a better way. It works out well. Is London nearly on the li ne? Oh, ten minutes. Good, fine, lovely. Good. So, this life is a continuation and we come into this life with all the impressions that we have gained from previous lifetimes. And we have chosen our circumstances that we are in. We have chosen our il lnesses, we have chosen our parents, we have chosen everything that is connected to us. And, because we have the ability to choose, we can choose a replacement also. We can choose that. If you can choose a certain job, you are at liberty to choose anoth er job. Now, what we have to do is to develop the ability to choose. And that does not only come from belief, that I believe that I can choose. No, I know that I can choose, and I turn that knowingness into that faith which becomes so powerful. Now, how to get the strength? We come back to the same old thing again: meditation. Drawing from the well, that eternal well filled with everything you need, filled with all power, all force, that just one spark can change a man's entire lifetime. Illumination comes in a moment. It just requires one moment to become self realized. Just one moment, one fraction of a moment to become a self realized being, to become illumined, to become enlightened. But what takes the time is the preparation. And what we are d oing in our spiritual practices is nothing else but preparation. That is what we

10. U S 78 - 9 are doing. The housewife spends hours over the stove, three, four hours cooking that beautiful dinner, and in ten minutes we gobble it up, don't we. Likewise, likewise in e verything the preparation is the hardest part. For if the time goes in preparing the candle; the time goes in preparing the match; but to light the flame is in a moment. And that is how illumination dawns. And don't be surprised. For some of you it m ight just be around the corner, might just be around the corner, and you might not just realize it. In this very room, in this very room, sits one person that will never take life again. In this v ery room, that will never be reborn, for this person has r eached the finest relative in the sense of real knowingness. She is there. And all she has to do is wait to shed this mortal frame and merge away into Divinity. And just to see that one person who is sitting in this room, this whole trip of mine has bec ome worthwhile. I salute that person. Yes. Okay. It's time. **** END ****


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