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1. U S 79 - 5 TIME, SPACE, SEPARATION, AND ILLUSION GURURAJ: Good. What shall we talk about tonight? VOICE: Guruji, on the Pavitrananda tape you mentioned visiting other gurus in India, saying basically that it was a waste of time. You were visiting other gurus and Swamis in America this tour. Could you talk about the relationship between highly enligh tened men and about the difference between your teaching and the teaching of other living spiritual teachers. GURURAJ: I do not compare. Thank you. Next question. [Laughter] Every teaching has its own particular value depending upon your temperament. One guru I visited during this tour, he was teaching a totally twelfth century Hinduism. Now there were a lot of people there that liked that kind of teaching, so a person takes on teachings according to what he or she likes. So, we do not compare, espe cially I never so. Man must do things according to his temperament, and a person always starts from where one is. It is no sense giving someone lessons of the tenth grade when the child is in the fifth grade, and yet the fifth grade is just as important a s the tenth grade. For without having gone through the fifth grade you could never have reached the tenth grade. So, therefore, we do not condemn and neither condone anyone's teachings. Man has free will and according to his will and temperament he must take on that which is most conducive to him. There are no untruths. Man is led from a lower truth to a higher truth and it depends entirely upon your own awareness or lack of awareness what truth you will grasp. If your awareness is very heightened, you will reach more subtler and subtler truths. A child in kindergarten would add one and one makes two and two and two makes four. Fine, that is good. That is what the child needs. While a graduate of mathematics at the university will require mathematic al formulas to satisfy himself, so that is good for him. Now the child is not wrong, the child has his own form of truth, while the university graduate has his form of truth. Now, if we look at our symbol, it shows that what we are trying to create is t he harmony between all these various beliefs, for at the basis of all these various beliefs, theologies, religions, one is trying to find the light within. So whichever p ath you take is good. If you come to me and say I want to join such and such an orga nization, I say yes, please go, you might perhaps learn something there, and by learning something there you might be able to appreciate better what I'm trying to tell you. Or, perhaps, you will learn more there than I could possibly teach you. So in the g uru chela relationship one takes on according to one's capacity. But there is one thing to be remembered very clearly and it is a misconception that a person thinks he chooses a guru. That is wrong. The guru chooses you. Yes. Yes. Yes. If you are dra wn to a certain form of teaching, why are you drawn to that particular form of teaching? Why is

2. U S 79 - 5 your mental makeup of that particular form so that you are drawn to a particular teaching. What are the mechanics? What are the subtle working within you tha t makes you go to a certain teacher? When a guru meets a chela, a certain thing occurs which is inexplicable. An electric spark occurs where the oneness of the heart is felt, and in the progression of evolution the chela becomes the guru and the guru be comes the chela. And that is the goal of life. Now when I talk of the guru it does not mean this bag of flesh and bones; it means that inner self , that vibrant inner self that has realized itself. So this spark enters again into the flame, the eternal f lame, which the guru represents. Now, some flame could be too bright and your eyes might be weak, so go to a weaker flame. But if your heart is open and you are ready for a universal teaching that embraces all religions and all teachings and everything th at exists, then you go to that. So it depends a lot upon one's temperament. The whole idea is this: that man must be set on the path towards divinity. There are other movements that promise you enlightenment. There's one movement, very prevalent in Ame rica, that tells you that once you start this path we guarantee that in four lifetimes you will reach enlightenment. Yes. Yes. How do you know that? What do you know about what is going to happen in the next four lifetimes? There are other paths again that promise you that if you do this twenty minutes, twenty minutes, in seven years you are enlightened. In CC, hm, the CC. I teach of WC: World Consciousness, that's what WC stands for. We don't have world consciousness or an expanded awareness, and w hy do we talk of cosmic consciousness. Ramakrishna said something very beautiful. He said, "With all my teachings if I could only lead one person, one person to enlightenment, my purpose in life has been served." My guru told me when I said, "Swamiji, why don't you start an ashram? So many people will benefit by what you're teaching." He says, "I've come for one purpose and that purpose has been served and I need nothing else. One chela, one purpose. That's all, I am happy. I have done my dharma." The n you have other movements again that give you a flashy experience, presses fingers in your eyes so that you see stars. Now I don't know why they do that, pressing fingers in your eyes, and any opthamologist will tell you like Dr. Lee [Sannela?] sitting over there that if certain pressure is put at a certain spot you are going to see stars. Yes, then they say, "I have seen the light." Why don't you use a hammer. [Laughter] Now I don't want to talk about all these things. I don't like to talk about He aven and Hell because I've got friends in both places. [Laughter] Who am I to compare, who am I to judge? For judging you I will be judging Divinity; and being one with Divinity, being in that communion, the question of judgment falls away. No question. So man progresses from the stage of questioning, questioning, questioning, questing, questing, questing until all that is gone when the answer and the question becomes one. And this goes on all the time, all the time. Like one little boy was asked when his birthday was and he said, "June first." So the other person asked what year. So he says, "Every year!" It is so lovely to laugh. It is not only a lung exercise.

3. U S 79 - 5 So different teachers teach different things and whatever you are ready for you will take on. Now we have one particular mentality, and mostly so in the Western countries, where like a butterfly, they will flit from flower to flower to flower. B ut that is valid too, because I see no untruths. I see nothing wrong. That is valid too. P eople talk of one pointedness. O.K. Fine. That is good. But flitting from flower to flower has its own validity trying this and trying that and trying that, it has its own validity because the bee has to flit from flower to flower to flower to produce t hat honey. And once you have the honey, you become one pointed. Some people start with the one pointedness from the beginning. So then, to repeat again, someone asks me shall I try this or that? I say, "Yes, yes, go, go, go, why not try it? Then come back and tell me what you have experienced or what you have gained. And then I will help, I will not assess but I will help you to assess yourself of what you have gained." So we don't compare this is good and that is no good, that guru is a good guru an d that guru is a bad guru, this guru is a money making guru and this is a money giving guru. We don't we don't do that, it's not our business. But I could tell you one thing, it is this: that join the Father's company to help His business. That Fat her t here! So perhaps you have to work under the managing director or the manager because he's down on Earth. That chap is too high up, O.K.? Fine. Nirmala. NIRMALA: Guruji, good evening. This is an odd thing I read. It sounds like predestination and let 's see what you think of it. In the Course in Miracles it is stated.... GURURAJ: The cause.... NIRMALA: It's a book called The Course in Miracles. It purports to have been dictated by Jesus Christ. That I don't know, but that's what it's supposed to be. "The revelation that the Father and Son are one will come in time to every mind." The time is set already. It appears to be quite arbitrary, yet there is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him although he has not yet embarked on it, for time seems only to go in one direction. We but undertake a journey that is over, yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us. Time is a trick, a slight of hand, a vast illusion in which figures come and go as if b y magic. Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. When experience will come to end your doubting has been set, for we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make i t once again, reviewing mentally what has gone by. GURURAJ: You're finished?

4. U S 79 - 5 NIRMALA: Yes. Very strange. I'd like to have your comment on it. GURURAJ: Lovely. Beautiful. Good. Now the whole question reverts on time. But before that the author said that there will come a time when Father and son are one. Now Father and son. I and my Father has always been one. There has never been a separation. The separation that a person feels is the separation created by man with his own mind. Now, if you define the Father as that universal energy, and you have to exist, take every breath during the day with the force of that universal energy, how could you ever be separated? But the realization has to dawn in man. The heart has to open, the mind has to expand to come back to the beginning where Father and son has always been one. So, traveler, where are you traveling to? For your journey's end is but reaching back to the beginning. Yes. Yes. Yes. Now, we measure time with our mind. We measure time i n a linear fashion: 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, 3:00. A linear fashion. A horizontal fashion. And wherever there is time involved there is space, for it takes one minute to reach from this end of the room to that end of the room. So, space cannot be devoid of time for man's mind. That is why we think of this separation. For to leave home and to reach back home again there is time involved, and time being involved, space is a necessary must. Man's mind says that. But on a different dimension, have you ever l eft home? If you and the Father are one eternally, where have you gone to and where are you coming from. Nowhere. Nowhere. Three score years and ten seem so much to us. Huh? It is not even a flicker of an eyelid in cosmic time. And then, in that cosm ic vastness, there is no time, and even science today will talk of the timelessness of things and the regression back into time. So here what we are doing is talking about different dimensions. The ordinary, mundane, worldly, small little conscious mind can only think in the terms of time. But to go beyond that little dimension and into a different dimension, then the entire universe, the entire eternity is also but a flicker of a second. The astronomers will tell you how a star is born and dies immediat ely in a second, and yet for us to measure that we would measure it in the terms of billions of years. And yet, it was just a flicker, a flash. Fine. I'll tell you a story about Krishna. Krishna had a friend, [Sudhama?], and Sudhama asked Krishna, "Tel l me, what is the meaning of maya or illusion?" So Krishna says, "O.K., I will one day." So the time came when they had to go on a journey. They went on this journey and Sudhama went with. So they walked and walked and walked, and Krishna felt thirsty. So Krishna said to Sudhama, "There's a village very near here. Get me some water." So Sudhama goes to fetch water. The first door he knocked on a beautiful damsel opened the door and love at first sight. I don't know if that could really be true, if t here is such a thing, that love could really have sight, because once you see love then love ceases.

5. U S 79 - 5 Once you think and analyze love, love ceases; it just is. Nevertheless, as the story goes, he falls in love with this lovely lady. He sees her a few time s, and he goes to the father and says, "May I have your daughter's hand in marriage?" I don't know if that is done anymore. They first get married and then they go and ask. Nevertheless. So the father consents. The father was an old man so he gave him all his farms and the oxen and the plows and says, "You two settle down and be happy." And after a while a baby was born. Then more time passed and another baby was born, and like that they had three children. One day a great flood, a great flood. The river was over flooding itself and swept the village. Here Sudhama was trying to help his three children and his wife. He had one child on his shoulder, the other child under one arm and the other child under t he other arm, and his wife was clinging onto him, but the flood was so fierce, ravaging, that it pulled his wife away and the wife drowned. Now they had lived for twelve years together, twelve years before this flood came. So the wife got drowned. The c hild from the one arm got pulled away while he was trying to save the wife, so the one child was lost. Then the second child got lost and the third one too. His family died. But somehow he started battling, battling, battling and he got out on the bank of the river. Exhausted, he lay there and slowly he opened his eyes and saw Krishna standing there. Krishna said, "Sudhama, it took you a whole half an hour to bring me this water." Huh? [Laughter] We are talking here. Twelve years passed in that lev el, yet on another level it was just this half an hour. Krishna expected Sudhama to return within fifteen minutes, but it took half an hour. You see. A different dimension of time. So in that dimension time becomes timeless, and that is what Blake said men means eternity in an hour. Why not in a second? See? Good. So, that is how we conceive time. Now, through our practices we can experience the timelessness of ourselves. Where for that momentary second when we reach beyond the level of the mind we are there in eternity, and coming back from that you ask, "Where was I?" So, the entire universe can be experienced here and now. All time and timelessness can be experienced here and now, for it is only the now that matters, not the past and not the future. For man suffers because he's constantly thinking of the past and of the future because his mind is conditioned to linear time. But if that timeless quality is infused, even in that whic h we know as time, then this time will make us realize that w e live for the moment. That is why the scriptures say, "Live your life in such a way as if it is your last moment." Now this leads us on to great moral, ethical qualities. Why should I do something wrong? How do I know that I'm going to be alive in the next five minutes? You see the deep implications of the simple, simple sayings? So what do we do? What do we do? It is so easy to say I live for the now. It is so easy to say. But how to make that into a reality amidst all the unreality of the limita tions that we have put upon ourselves. And the way would be to reach the deeper and deeper layers of the mind where time expands into timelessness and that very

6. U S 79 - 5 expansion is in reality, a contraction where the entire eternity in its fullest expansion is f ound in the contraction of the flicker of an eyelid. That is the paradox. That is the paradox that has to be understood, for all this is true. Three score and ten is true; the billion years that we think of is true; and all that condensed into the flicke r of an eyelid is also true. So it means that the opposites are but one. We experience polarities and that is why from the polarities we experience we have to come back to the center, which is achieved by proper meditation. So, the purpose of meditation is centering oneself, and in the center we find timelessness where man realizes that I am eternal, I am immortal, I and my Father are one. I have never separated myself from my Father. My mind deludes me in thinking that I am away from my Father, but I h ave not left home. The scriptures say, "Come unto me, little children." What is meant by that? "Come unto me, little children?" Rather come unto little minds that think you are separate from me. And know for sure that you have not left home. Yes. Yes. Now that is the great delusion; that is the great illusion; that is the cause of all suffering. So why must we suffer. Is l ife not joy? Why all these little intrigues going on? Even you'll find that in spiritual movements. Little things, this one hu r ting that one and that one hurting that one. Is it really worth it? How much more better just be innocent. Love, love, love, lo ve for that is the greatest medicine, the greatest balm. Two people have a quarrel and one says you said that and the other on e said you said that and that one denies it and the other said you did too, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What use is there in it? Isn't it a clash of one's little personal ego that seeks that kind of individual self preservation instead of s elf exp ansion. At one moment a person feels so expanded as if he could embrace the entire universe, and in the next moment a little quarrel comes up and upsets all. That is how the world lives. That is what is happening in the world all the time. So which one is the greater delusion? Feeling for a moment that wonderful expansion and the next moment quibbling over something not even worth quibbling about. That expansion is the delusion, because it was not really an expansion, it was not an expansion. No. It was a delusion, making the mind believe that I am expanded. And that is where, that is where yesterday we were talking about affirmations. That is where affirmations break down, by self delusion. That I affirm this, this, this, this, this. What I? W hich I is a affirming what? Which I is affirming what to what I? Huh? Ya. Rather Divinity help me to do this with your grace and your force. Thy will be done, not mine. For what will really have I got. Hm? In the cosmos of things, to come to the sec ond part of the question, everything is predetermined. Everything. An entire universe exists only for a flicker of a second for a flicker of an eyelid. That is the time this universe exists, the entire universe, a flicker of a second. And that has happ ened already. This universe is dead and recreating itself all the time. It dies and recreates, dies and recreates. Even in the human body billion of cells are being destroyed and recreated all the

7. U S 79 - 5 time as we are sitting here. Birth, expansion, and death . The Hindus would call it Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Creator, preserver and dissolver. That's happening in our bodies all the time. Likewise, this body itself is a universe. Count all those billions of cells as the stars you see in the universe. This body's a universe. So the universe is lasting only for that flicker of a second. That is all, that is all. And that is already done and recreating itself new, new, new, all the time. Now then, where does free will come in? What is the position of man ? Small man, in this whole scheme of things? Everything that happens in his life, is it predetermined? That is the question. Is it predetermined that I will have supper at half past eight and not twenty five to nine? What is determined is this, that I will have supper. Time does not matter. Good. So we are born into this world as the sum totality of all the experiences we have had in past lives. Those experiences, as we said in another talk this week, are brought in impression form, and those impre ssions, from the very birth of ourselves, those impressions create a certain tendency within ourselves. So we can follow those tendencies. But as we grow up from childhood and the mind starts thinking, the power of discrimination starts developing. We s ee that these tendencies are good and we follow them. If we see those tendencies are not good and not conducive to harmony within ourselves and to our environment, we make some effort to change those tendencies. So in our plane of existence there is a ce rtain amount of predestination but a greater amount of free will. So we can alter our tendencies. So if a person has the tendency of stealing, he can alter those tendencies into non stealing. If a person has the tendency of lying, he or she can alter t he tendency to non lying. And this requires some effort and it can be done by all. So our lives are governed more by free will. I had the flu before I left home for America. I had the free will to cancel the trip because I was not well. The flu could g et worse traveling 12,000 miles, coming into a different climate, a different atmosphere, different foods that I'm not used to, various other factors could make me more ill, but I said, "No, I have a responsibility. I choose to go and fulfill my responsib ility and whatever wants to happen will happen. So what!" You see, like that in every aspect of life, man has free will. If he wants to do something he can do it. Now if the things he does is conducive to the laws of nature, to flow with the laws of na ture, to bring greater harmony within himself and to those around him, he can make this very planet Earth into Heaven for himself. Because there is nothing up there; it's all here. And what is all here is the very same nothing up there, for here, too, the re is nothing. [He laughs] [END SIDE ONE] And what is all here is the very same nothing up there. For here, too, there is nothing. [He laughs] The question of emphasis. Basically, man is trying to find happiness, that is all. He wants to find happine ss, and the only way to find happiness is to be able to love and be loved. That is the only way, there is no other way. If you have a five roomed house and you add on and make it into a ten roomed house, it is not going to make you happier. It is just t o show others, ah, Mr. Big. If you have a little Ford and you buy a Lincoln or a Cadillac, it is not going to make you happier. Fo r

8. U S 79 - 5 within three weeks time you will be tired of the Lincoln and it will just become part of the furniture. Oh, yes. Real ha ppiness comes from developing the ability to love. If you are loving, automatically you become lovable. I say this over and over again. Now, how do we develop this love? How do we develop this love? Is love something that can really be developed, huh? No, it can't. For as soon as you start analyzing love, you cease to love because love knows no analysis. But the development of love is done indirectly, and the indirect way that brings this condition of love are these: meditation and spiritual practic es which automatically gets this thing inside pulsating, going, yearning, giving. Yes. Life is made to give and not to take. And that's what Joe Louis said also. He always wanted to punch and not to take. You got it now. Good. [He laughs.] Good. So we do our spiritual practices whereby the mind expands. By going deeper you're using a wedge to open up the mind through meditation so the mind expands and a greater perception takes place. Good. With that the heart expands through the power of gurushak ti; and as the heart expands it cannot remain empty, it cannot remain a vacuum. Then all the love that is around in this universe, for there is nothing else but love, nothing else can exit but love, nothing else ca n exist but God, and God is love. The res t is but a superimposition created by our cunning little minds. Power and position. No. What is it worth? What is it worth? You see. So as the heart opens up, it has to be filled, and the heart can only be filled with love. That is the only thing th e heart can take. That is the only thing the heart, the core of man's personality, can receive. And there, at the core of man's personality, there is an everlasting eternal spring which is also made of love, so the outer love and the inner love becomes o ne. And that is how you realize that I and my Father are one. I and everything else around me is but one in this moment, for eternity is but a moment. You see. Now, that's not the only thing we do. We have to make some effort. Many times people have t ongues that wag too much. A loose piece of flesh, uncontrolled, uncontrolled. Yea. There's a Chinese proverb that before you say something born of anger, roll your tongue nine times in your mouth. For by the time you roll your tongue nine times in your mouth your anger would have subsided and you're not going to say the angry thing. These are little ruses, little devices one uses to better oneself, and they are necessary. They are necessary. For the realized man all this doesn't matter. So you're an gry with me, so what. So you're happy with me, so what. Huh? Let me tell a little story. There was a village and in this village lived a guru. Now, this village did not have a large population. One young lady in this village got pregnant. So the pa rents wanted to know that who has made you pregnant. Now in India there is this caste system. We're talking of a long time ago. And if this girl had to tell the parents who the father is of her child that she is bearing, they definitely would have killed the boy because he was of a lower caste. So the girl was in a quandary.

9. U S 79 - 5 What shall I do now. She wanted to protect her lover. So when the parents and the village elders got together and pressurized her she said that the father of my child is that guru. Poor guru, always gets the blame for everything. I know that! You don't do your bloody job well and you get the sack and blame the guru. Huh, huh, huh! Or like that. You burn the toast and you blame the guru and not your inattention to the toaster. It's fun though, I love it! Oh, yes, that's the same fly that was here yesterday. AMRIT: That's the daughter. GURURAJ: No, that's the same one. I recognize her. Same one. She's in love. [Laughter] So she says my baby is the guru's. So nine mont hs and ten days pass and the baby is born. Meanwhile, during this time the young man that was responsible had left the village to go and work in the city. So after the baby was born, a month or two later, the elders thought that look, the child must go to the father, which was the ancient Eastern tradition. So they took the child to the guru at his hut and said, "Look, this is your child. We are going to leave this child with you. It is your child." So the guru said, "As you please." So they left the child there. The guru was a real guru, very kind, compassionate. He brings up the child. The child reaches the age of two, three, four years. Such a lovely boy playing around, and here, and when the mother sees this little child every time when she goe s to the village well to fill water, and she sees the child, and her heart, you know the mother's heart, filled with so much love and sacrifice, she just couldn't stand it any more. She couldn't stand it anymore. Oh, my child, why can't I hold him in my arms and have the baby with me. What mother would not have those feelings? Real mother. So she goes to her parents and says, "Look, Mom and Pop, I told you a lie. The father of the child is not that poor guru that I blamed, but the father is such and s uch." So they sent for this young man from the city, the village elders, and he said yes, that is true, and they had some form of proof and the village elders were convinced that the guru is not the father of the child. So here the whole committee goes t o the guru's hut and says, "Guru, this is not your child, we want it back." So, the guru says, "As you please," and gave back the child. So it is a matter of as you please. Do you get the point of this story? That is what happens. The world is so inv olved within their own little petty selves, the people are so involved that nothing else matters except their own self and that own little self is the surest way to insanity. That's the surest way to insanity. Therefore I would say go deep within yoursel f, find that peace there, for it is there. It has always been there. You have never been apart from your Father. He's always there within you. Find that peace and express it to the world with love. Make some effort, make some effort. Meditations are effortless, but living life has to have some effort. So it's really very easy, and happiness is everyone's birthright. Noth ing to be unhappy about. What is there to be unhappy about? So we lose business. Lose twenty thousand dollars in a

10. U S 79 - 5 business that we started. So what. So we start another one, and perhaps we'll do better in the second one because we've gained experience in the first one. So a young man suffers a heart break because his young lady jilts him. Okay. Perhaps I've brought that upon myself, perhaps I have been wrong. How much self analysis have I gone through instead of blaming her? If I had that really in me she would have not jilted me in the first place. Think that way. And the women must think the other way: that why did I ha ve to be with him for so long and hurt him like this? See. Now these things are not predetermined, these things come of free will. There are no two people in this world that, if they make up their minds to make life successful that they will not be able to make it successful. They can. Any two people. There has to be a certain mutual attraction first, and then from there love grows like a flower. The entire flower is in the seed and the first contact is nothing but the seed. Nurture the seed; water it; and the flower grows, the flower of love. So here when I come people talk of marital problems, this problem and that problem, it is not necessary, it is not necessary. Just have the attitude "as you please" and you'll see how problems get solved. Bec ause in reality there are no problems. That is the crux of the whole matter. That is actually the irony, the anomaly, that there are no real problems. We create problems and those problems that we create are in reality false problems. So what if my wif e did not iron my suit this morning. She must have been in a bit of a mood or something. I'll do it quickly before going to work. All right, fine. O. K. No conflict. Finished. And then I can assure you when you come back home and the wife's temper ha s simmered down she will say, "Sorry, my love, that I did not press your suit this morning." Hug, kiss, go to bed. Happiness. So simple. But if I take the stand, you bloody fool, I want my suit ironed, problems. We create it. Like that in every aspec t of life. So do not take everything as if it is predetermined. There is a tendency, there are tendencies that we are born with, but we can change those tendencies to greater and greater happiness. Yes. After all, what do we want out of this life is hap piness and happiness comes with love. So simple. Open the heart by meditation, spiritual practices. Awareness expands where things can be seen in its true perspective. Read good books instead of all those kinds of novels you find on street corners. I'v e seen I've passed a stand, and the titles oh! Mind blowing. I could never imagine such titles or conjure up such titles. The other day in New York Amrit took me to show me that show street. What do you call it? Broadway. AMRIT: [Inaudible] GURURAJ: And I saw the marquees, all those kinds of titles. I could never imagine. Listen to the words of wise people. Listen to tapes. Things like that. Good books. Let the mind be filled with uplifting thoughts and all this negativity goes away. We are in a mess. The world is in a mess and the mind of

11. U S 79 - 5 man has put this world into this mess. It doesn't mean it cannot be unmessed. We're actually in a mesh that can be unmeshed. Now, I think it's half past ten. Good night. It is nice to have a bit of fun. I love laughing. ****END****

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