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1. U S 80 - 31 NIRMALA: Guruji, you spoke yesterday about the vibrations of the electronic automatic machine. Now how can that differ so much from our using sound vibrations in the mantra and in the chanting? I mean how are the vi brations different obviously they must be and what effect have they on our whatever it has an effect on? GURURAJ: Now, the electronic vibrations that are used are totally modulated by an exterior source. They have a certain rhythm and a certain pi tch which is applied to each and every one. But when you meditate with your own vibration, you are modulating the pitch, the sound, the rhythm, what have you, of your own mantra. And as you would know, the mantra would fade away thus going deeper wh ile the electronic machine that would just remain on the brain level, mind level, because it is a constant form of rhythm which does not give the sound vibrations which is of course a [foreign?] vibration. It does not give the sound vibration a chance to go deeper into the mind. So in meditation we go to the deeper and deeper levels while the electronic machine is just on the surface area of the mind, and with that sound pitch there is a great chance coming from the outside there is a great chance o f it destroying many of the brain cells. That is the difference. So it is difficult and never advisable to use outside sources to achieve spiritual ends. It is like a form of s hock treatment, as I said yesterday, and any kind of shock treatment does not help and with these sound techniques that are used by electronic machines has a brain washing effect while in our meditations it has a regenerating effect. So these are some of the differences. QUESTIONER: Guruji, could you talk about chanting it wa s mentioned that we could do it by ourselves and also the benefit or if we're supposed to be chanting faster. I know when I am chanting very slow a base vibrations sort of bothers me or you know, goes through me whether that's just [???] GURURAJ: Now when it comes to chanting there are many factors involved. Firstly, those sounds in chanting it is a spiritual practice. It is not a meditational practice. Now in this practice each and every syllable have been perceived by the seers and sages of the finer forms of vibrations that exist in relativity. So by chanting what we are doing is getting in touch with those higher vibrations and thereby uplifting the entire atmosphere. Now, what else should happen in chanting is this, that when you do about t hree rounds you will find that the chanting goes on automatically. The small "I" is chanting and the big "I" becomes separated watching the chanting. So this is very necessary because the small "I" always identifies itself. Now this could never happen w ith a machine. The small "I" always identifies itself with the big "I" and it is this very identification that empowers the small "I" in thinking "I," the small "I," am it all. So when one develops the sen se and watches oneself where the chanting just go es on automatically and you are a part from it, then a discrimination

2. U S 80 - 31 develops and this in turn during daily life it would lead you to be able to observe your thoughts. And by observing thoughts one is never caught up in those thoughts and you stand as a witness. This is the other benefit of chanting. Then the chant, it is so timed that the Aim Hrim Krim Chamunda Ye Vi Che Che is the exact length of any individual thought. This we have experimented upon and proven. Now, people think that they think so m any thoughts simultaneously, but really speaking, they do not. Two thoughts can never remain simultaneously in the mind they follow consecutively. Fine. So, the chant is geared to the duration of a thought and when the next round starts when you be come more and more aware you'll find a gap and that gap is the center of yourself. That is another benefit. Fourthly, the chant is so timed that it also becomes a pranayama because when you chant Aim Hrim Krim Chamunda Ye Vi Che Che you are not b reathing in. You are expelling. Now the most important thing in pranayama is not inhalation but exhalation, and what happens is this, helped by the higher vibrations that are created, you are expelling the toxins in your system. And by doing that, getti ng into that rhythm, the mind slowly quiets down. Now, the speed is not important. We use the medium speed which is applicable to all, but when you are doing it by yourself then you can do it faster or slower as long as the rhythm is maintained. And cha nting always becomes more powerful in a group. But you can do it individually as well. For example, sometimes a thought might be bothering you and the thought keeps on repeating itself over and over again. So you, when that thought becomes troublesome t o you, you start chanting to yourself and you will find the power of that thought just going away vanishing. So it helps you in that sphere as well. There are many many benefits to chanting. For example in India when a temple is built and say the st atue which of course as we know is just a symbol a statue of Rama or Krishna or whatever is installed in the temple then (I've taken part in this) then we chant for 24 hours a day for three weeks, two to three weeks, a continuous chant for three soli d weeks without missing a minute of the day. Now, how we do it is this, we do it in turns. So there's a group that will chant for six to eight hours, and then the other group takes over immediately and it's done in turns because no one could keep on chan ting for three weeks all the time. And you would be surprised before the statue of Krishna or Rama is installed you'll be surprised at the vibrations that are created in the temple. You'd be surprised. It becomes so powerful. You are really charg ing that statue with this heightened form of vibration. And that is why... I mean we see it here as well. If you go into a church, you know there is greater peace, you feel at peace there because in church firstly, people don't normally think of negative thoughts. Their thoughts are fairly directed. Of course you do get people that go to church and do all kinds of things, but generally speaking what should be, people think higher thoughts. Then the hymns are sung. You have the organ music and things li ke that. Sermons are there which never mind of what quality they are or how deep they are, yet they are still directed to a higher power. So that is why you feel some form of peace in a church, and when you

3. U S 80 - 31 approach the church you also approach it very r everently. You won't go hold a disco in a church. You approach it reverently. And that is why the vibrations are so built up that you do find some peace. So, you see the effect of chanting which is directed to these higher forces, which is directed to h igher vibrations. When we say higher forces it only means more subtler vibrations. Okay. Fine. QUESTIONER: Guruji, it is important that we do the 7 rounds or the 9 rounds or does a person have to keep count or could you maybe do it for 15 minutes or 20 minutes before you meditate. GURURAJ: It is always best to keep count. There is a duration. When you chant and you use beads there are 108 beads. Now that also has been scientifically worked out, that after that the system requires that minute or half a minute of rest, then you start again. And I know when I used to do these things in India, we used to chant for 8 hours at a go 8 hours solid chanting. I used to do that. And then the mind becomes so clear. All the niggling thoughts and things are gone and you really feel a new person. But this has to be brought up gradually. You don't overload your system. You start with 5, proceed to 7, 9, 11, 13, 15 depends upon your own capacity. QUESTIONER: Guruji, can you tell us [Inaudible] GURURAJ: Oh it can be twice a day. It depends upon your capacity. You can do it more. QUESTIONER: You can do it every day [Inaudible]? GURURAJ: You can do it every day you can do it while you're driving, just sing along instead of all the boy mee t girl and I love you in June and the moon and the spoon instead of that... SUJAY: On the course you've been talking about the aspect of personal divinity as that very fine energy field, you know, that's just above what we call the Absolute or Unmanifest God. How does in all the traditions of the world like Hinduism, Christianity, you have these different forms of Divinity which people worship like Christ, Krishna, Rama, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva. Do they have as we understand it, an independent identity separate and apart from just that rather flat field of energy? Or are these merely remembrances of things that had existed that call our mind to a higher level, or do they in fact exist?

4. U S 80 - 31 GURURAJ: They do not exist. These are stories created by man. B ut they do exist in a symbolic form as symbolism. Now symbol does not require real existence. It can have an assumed existence to teach one in story form, for all these Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva is just a description of the processes that take place in th e universe: like creation, preservation and dissolution. So all these gods the Suras and Asuras and all those are just symbolic, portraying certain meanings of the various forces of nature that are around. So if you want to put a name to the forces o f nature, you can call it by these names. But one thing definitely exists is the totality of all the thought forms and all the energies that a re released or that are emanated from this universe, and the totality of that is the personal god. Therefore, whe n Krishna showed Arjuna the [Viratswarupa?] which you have read about, showed his real self you see pictures of it symbolically portrayed where all things are happening: there's this creation happening, there's this slaying of the demons, bloodshed, creation, good things, bad things all this is composed for the personal god being the totality of what this universe emanates, is a mixture of it all. SUJAY: So that Christ and Rama and these things may have been historical figures in the past, but to day whatever emanations that they embodied is now a part of the universal emanation? GURURAJ: Oh yes. Oh, definitely. Not a part, the totality of the universal emanation could be brought forth in one small embodied form the totality of it because, and there lies the greatest suffering of those great personages we call them avataras or whatever, incarnations, where from this very vastness I always use the analogy of a funnel or an ice cream cone from this very vastness they come down to the smallness of the little body. And their awareness being so expanded that, although in the small body, the awareness is there so much that the totality of the world's emanation is there. In other words, they the individual mind has become one with the universal mind. Therefore they are repositories of all wisdom, all total wisdom, total bliss, and yet, being embodied, they too have to go through the normal human channels. They, too, because of this process, forget themselves who they are. They hav e no cognition of who they are at birth, but as they grow up, as they develop, all this dawns on them. Now everyone has the totality in him, but there are blockages, if one could use those words, or much lower on the evolutionary standard they [are? ought? ] to be able to recognize that while these Avataras being that, it comes to their cognition much quicker. And yet they have to go through a process, for all... they have to experience, they have to know the experiences of life to bring out that fullness o r that fulfillment that they already have. Therefore all great teachers have only started teaching at a later stage of life, you know, after about 30 or so they start teaching: Krishna, Rama, Christ,

5. U S 80 - 31 Buddha, all of them. They still have to go through the human process until that explosion occurs within them and in an instant they know who they really are. So they, too, the avataras, incarnations, have to go through a period of self discovery, and it is not so easy for them either. They also have bein g in a mortal frame, they also have their physical problems and what have you physical problems, mental problems, social problems. For these teachings are such that you are talking from a certain level and you've got to bring down that level so that th ose that you are talking to could understand perhaps not understand fully, they might understand the words, but with the words is also put forth that divine energy they have within them so that it is not only the words but it is also pouring forth of th at divinity so that it enters the hearts of people, it touches their hearts, it expands their hearts, and it brings them closer to God in a far quic ker way. Otherwise if it was just words only, then one can read books. So a true spiritual teacher not onl y gives off wisdom in words, but he emanates a certain energy force, a spiritual energy which pushes and helps. That is why, you know, the spiritual teachers are necessary, for they are but channels for this energy force, for the spiritual energy. Peopl e travel for miles in India especially hundreds and hundreds of miles they walk, poor people, they walk, just to have darshan of the spiritual teacher just to be in the presence of, and sometimes they just don't say a word. They just sit there an d impart blessings, that's all. But it has a very powerful effect. And many people on our courses, depending upon the receptivity, they do feel uplifted. Though if you shut yourself off to that shakti, then you would feel nothing, bu t if you are recepti ve you do feel uplifted and this I've conducted so many many courses over these past five years, and there is definitely a sense of upliftment and openness. Something happens, something just triggers off. You can't explain it, but something is there. BALDEV: Guruji, when you were talking about the rise and fall of civilizations yesterday, it touched on a questions that comes to my mind. Specifically, you mentioned the socio economic system in this country, that we were headed for a more a tendenc y towards a more spiritual growth. Are not the basic precepts of The Sermon on the Mount and also precepts from the Vedic scriptures which have many similarities, and say the life of St. Francis as he sought to put some of those precepts into existence, i s not that really a quite revolutionary theory of socio economics to our existing system and as a nation conducting [????] spiritually, is there a possibility on a collective level where more of that socio economic revolution, if it is such, to be brought forth? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. The opposites is always attracted. If one goes to one extreme, be sure... it's like a pendulum the more the pendulum goes to the left, the more would it go to the right; and it will definitely have an effect

6. U S 80 - 31 on t he socio economic system. Now when I said that I spoke of the tendencies that could be foreseen, but what we do with the tendencies that's a different thing altogether. But the tendencies are there for a greater spiritual upsurgence and that is very v ery much needed. For around about 2050 2100, the world is proceeding to a terrible catastrophe and this catastrophe, engineered by man, will not only effect this planet, but it will affect the entire solar system which in tu rn will affect the whole galaxy . So there are always compensatory and balancing forces. Throughout history you will always find this there are always balancing forces. Now the tendency has been put into motion for greater spirituality, and by greater spirituality we mean a greater opening of the core of one's personality, one's heart. Now if this tendency that is there, if it could be carried out the human minds are fickle you might have a knife and a loafer boy will kill someone with it while a surgeon will operate and save s omeone's life. So, talking about tendencies, it depends how we use it. And if the present tendencies that are in America are followed up, then this catastrophe that's round about 2050, 2100, it can be averted. And I've been saying this for many, many ye ars and just about a year or two ago I saw reports in the newspaper where Linus Pauling says the same thing of course he was speaking as a physicist he won the Nobel Prize twice for physics, I think it was. He says the same thing. VOICE: Molecular . GURURAJ: Right. So, now here you have a tendency towards destruction and to counteract that another tendency is being created and formulated and it started around the turn of the century, but it is gaining greater momentum now to offset the destructive f orces at work. And of course it depends upon us which we want the destructive forces or the constructive forces. And that is why we teach, that is why we teach meditation and spiritual practices so that people's hearts could open and once the hearts a re opened, then never mind how much the mind is developed, it will curb the mind in using these forces destructively. The same thing happened with Atlantis where they discovered rather invented perhaps, or put together this giant crystal that emanated so much energy far far greater than nuclear energy through this crystal. And then by man's nature warring with each other for power that's just a few you just need a few people to ruin this world, to destroy this world, you don't need many becaus e the rest are like sheep, puppets you have to join up the marines, the army, and you are forced to do it, you are called up, you can do nothing about it or else they'll chuck you in jail. So, the warring factions just among these few people made condi tions possible for this great explosion to take place, and there are still fragments of that crystal lying around on this planet. There are 9 major points where the fragments are in this world, and you'd find a terrific amount of magnetism at those points on this earth. So, the tendencies are there for a regeneration of spiritual force alongside the tendencies of destruction. Now, with this moralist attitude th at

7. U S 80 - 31 has come about or that has now been set into motion, rather, it is to combat the extreme amo unt of permissiveness that has been going on. And America, being a leader, many countries would follow. Look, they followed Coca Cola you can buy it in the dessert why can't they follow spirituality. Yes. And today with the mass media people's mi nds can be influenced much more readily and easily than some hundreds of years ago, a few hundred years ago, but if it is used correctly.... The tendencies are there and those tendencies must be carried out. They must be exploited (although that's not the right word), they must be used. QUESTIONER: [????] was saying that we do different things on different planets different types of evolution on different planets. One of the common things I see in folklore a lot is the idea that there have been diffe rent races on this planet. Most of the time they seem to be races who had powers above the type of powers that we have. Is there any truth to that? And also will there be a time when the race that we belong to will be pushed off this planet and be repla ced by somebody else something else? GURURAJ: What will happen, this planet will remain the same all the time. We are part of a vast continuum. We are just a small section there. So as highly evolved people move out on this side, the lower ones mov e in from this side. So the sum totality of this planet will remain the same. It has been so, will be so, is so and will be so all the time. Now there are certain races that have developed certain characteristics. Yes, that is true for there are defini tely racial characteristics. QUESTIONER: I don't mean racial the way we think about them. For instance, there are stories about a race of men who lived and these turn up in a different folklore, different places in the world who live for instance i nside the rocks who don't talk with words, they communicate strictly with the mind all the time. These come up in Europe and they come up in different.... GURURAJ: Folklore. Folklore. It is folklore, like mythology. And one should not take it literall y. One should take it more figuratively. What it would mean that those beings living in the rocks it just means that there is life even in the rock there is a whole molecular structure there in the rock which is life itself. There is motion there at a lower form while the human being has developed to a higher form of consciousness, yet the rock itself, too, contains a consciousness because and the proof of it is this, that it is subjected to change and anything that changes must necessarily have consciousness. QUESTIONER: You also see this in some forms a lot of forms of esoteric literature that are floating around now claiming that there are these things on this planet.

8. U S 80 - 31 GURURAJ: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. People concoct stories and... you have science fiction, you have folk lores, you have all these various novels. For example, if there's a historical novel written today and that is found say a thousand years later, people will read that and they will think, "Ah, did this actually happen on Ea rth?" Meanwhile it could be just fiction. And that is how many of these folklores and ballads and mythologies have started. Mind you, mythology has greater value because it always tries to portray a deeper meaning, a deeper significance to things. Now, Indian mythology, for example, in speaking to the peasant type of person... you cannot speak to them in abstract terms, abstract philosophies, so what you do is create stories of gods and goddesses and demons warring with the gods and things. Meanwhile th ose are really the forces within us, the positive and the negative forces which are always in conflict. So mythology plays an important part. And then again, language is so inadequate that many things that cannot be expressed by words can be expressed by symbols. So, one has to really understand the underlying meaning of these symbols in order to grasp what it really is trying to say. Language falls very short; the mind is too limited to give a description of even very ordinary t hings very ordinary t hings like the taste of an apple. Can you describe it? And you can't. Perhaps Roopa can! She likes apples. ROOPA: You said in an earlier satsang that you were speaking about the Father and the son, the impersonal and personal and so forth and you s aid that the Father really doesn't know what in the world is going on here anyway, you know, because He is beyond that. And what I sometimes wonder is who is watching this play? I mean, who is this for the benefit of, you know? [Inaudible] GURURAJ: The play is not for the benefit of the impersonal God because that is just a neutral energy. Like electricity is, how you use it depends upon you. And this very play of life is for no one else's benefit but the benefit of the player. ROOPA: But that's the thing, who's the player? GURURAJ: You are. We are. We're all the players on the stage of life. We're all the players. Sometimes we think, why should this universe should have been created in the first place, where all these things are happening? We think that. Why play? Why? And of course, theologies tell you that God had to express Himself. What does He need expression for? But it is a natural outcome. I always say that this world has not been created, but it has been manifested. And the

9. U S 80 - 31 an alogy we use always is the flower is not creating fragrance, it is just the nature of the flower to give off fragrance or fir e to give off heat. So it is all within that framework, and it starts because energy cannot remain static. The very fragrance tha t comes from the flower must have motion for it to be fragrance, and it is this very motion that gets everything started and where it formulates itself in different name and form. (Is that our chair creaking so much?) So, we are the players and we are to enjoy the play. We are to enjoy the act, for who is observing? No one. We are the players; we are the observers; and we are the act. ROOPA: And part of the act is to forget and feel limited and to feel that... GURURAJ: A part of the act is to feel unlimited to not feel, but to realize that after all this is an act, this is a play, I am just a player, so why do I attach so much importance to myself if I am just a player and in the clutches or the hands of the laws of nature? The laws of nature is the director, and I am part of that law and directed. And then once when one knows what the entirety of nature is, then you say I am the player and the director, and when you still go beyond that then you say, "Neti, neti, not this. I'm not the director , I'm not the player, I'm not the play, I'm not the... It is the indescribable, unmanifest force who is the real doer of things, not I." And so these things progress in stages. They go on. And the greater the awareness develops the more we realize these things, and the more things... greater peace descends upon us. And what is peace, after all? Peace is lack of motion, that's all lack of motion in the mind, lack of turbulence in t he mind is peace, and that total peace only comes when one merges in th e unmanifest, the changeless. Long journey and yet so near. QUESTIONER: Guruji, if I take a stone and break it into two pieces or if I go to a tree and take a graft off and plant it an d it grows into another tree, have I created two distinct consciousnesses where there were one, or are they still the same, or what ? GURURAJ: There is only one consciousness. It depends how your tree grows and how much of that consciousness could be made manifest. Really speaking, there is only one consciousness. You are not creating different consciousness. Even when twins ar e born or triplets are born, they are still just one consciousness, and it depends upon genetic factors that who would manifest a greater amount or a lesser amount of that consciousness. Consciousness is like a pyramid: at the top end it's one, but it has the ability to spread itself. The cloud is small, but when it disperses itself it comes down in a large shower like your bathroom shower.

10. U S 80 - 31 SUJAY: In an infinite span of time this abstract energy can combine itself in infinite combinations. Are we si tting here merely just an outcome of just some combination of energies over an infinite period of time, that's all this is? And that th is can happen, this very same scene can happen at some future un imaginable point in time because of the infinite combi nations? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. Yes. It has happened so many times in the past, so why not so many times in the future? QUESTIONER: I mean, this exact same combination... GURURAJ: Yes. We've all been together. We've all been together. For example, las t night before going to sleep I had the exact view of this room before even it happened. I knew exactly who was sitting where. I saw it. You see? So if the mind can project itself into what we call time... but what is happening in the mind that you are not projecting the mind really, you are just cognizing, because the entirety when we talk of time we are talking in linear terms, but when you take your mind in meditation to a different dimension, it is all one flicker of a second and all this is happ ening and then it gets divided when you come down lower and then you say, "Ah, this is going to be tomorrow morning or next week." And many people have had that experience where they meet a [END SIDE ONE] person where they meet a person and they ha ve a conversation with the person and then after it strikes them, he says, "Wait a minute, I have met the person and I have discussed this with him before." Many people have those experiences from time to time. Yes. Just one of the mysteries that could not be discovered in our dimension but they are just as natural if the mind can be taken to a different dimension. There are people who get a feeling for example, that, "Oh, Auntie Jane is coming tonight," and there she turns up and yet there was no phone call, no letter. These are very very common to people. QUESTIONER: When we first met when I was asking you very many questions about different things and one day you said to me, "We've discussed that many times," and when I looked at you I said, "Wel l, we've just met." And you and I would talk about that many times. It did you a lot of good, I guess.... [Laughter] Until we get to the spot of remembering that or being able to bring our consciousness to that point, then it's just like it's just here, then isn't it. There's the reality of that all this has been, all this shall be but if we are not aware of that, then it's....

11. U S 80 - 31 GURURAJ: Well, that is what we are trying to do is to become aware of that. Now when I said... it was more in a sense of not being just there being elsewhere and you asked me a question and I said, "And what the devil are you asking me the same thing again? We have discussed this so many times." Not at that moment clicking that look I'm here now next to you, hm? But then, then when a certain thing is discussed, immediately something clicks within you that, "Look, I have known this," and this happens to most people. So what happens, the process is that, what you have known in a past existence which has been forgotten is bro ught back to your awareness, you are reminded of it. Therefore you read something or you hear a talk and you say, "Oh, yes, that's right, that's right, I know it." In other words, it's an awakenin g. You reawaken. QUESTIONER: Guruji, in An Autobiograph y of a Yogi he talked about how his teacher came back to him in a vision and told him about the other planets and things. And he said he said how for some of those advanced beings, some of their spiritual advancement their job was to help this plane t, people here. Is there truth to that. Are there... GURURAJ: There is some form of truth. I must really read because people always brings up the subject of the Autobiography of a Yogi. I read that about 15 years ago and I don't remember much of it, but at the same time I read it I felt it was 50% sensationalism and 50% truth, but you've got to make a best seller. Although, they had served its purpose of getting people interested on the spiritual path. Why be interested so much in psychic phenomena rather than the truth that we can find? Because psychic phenomena is very temporary and anyone can develop all kinds of siddhis or psychic powers because they have to do with the mind only and only the mind. Anyone can develop them. So I never attach m uch importance to psychic phenomena. This Yogananda's guru passed away and came back. There's nothing wonderful in that. This we have experienced it so many times. We have had an initiator and this is just one instance I can remember we had an i nitiator in England, Marjorie, she lives in Bath and she was initiating someone and she says, "Guruji, you walked into the room and you went to sit on the bed." And it was not only she that saw it but also the person that she was initiating. "You went to sit on the bed and I felt so ashamed." So from that day on she put a chair in the room where she initiates. So, these things are nothing, they are just nothing. Many people write to me that at such and such a time I felt your presence so strongly you we re there with me. I couldn't see you but you were there with me. Other people write to me, you know, you were there, I smelt you. And all kinds of things like that which means nothing. So, all these things are possible. All these things are possible wh ere a body can be dematerlialized and rematerialized somewhere else. Oh yes, because it is just a combination of molecules, which can be reordered, brought to a finer level,

12. U S 80 - 31 and transported just by thought force to wherever you want it to be. So these are natural laws there are no miracles natural laws which we don't really understand and therefore we call them miracles, but what is it worth? It is of no worth whatsoever on the spiritual path. These things do happen fine go observe them, enjo y them and forget them. QUESTIONER: I was mainly wondering about what you said about spiritual beings helping this planet. GURURAJ: There is some truth in it because when good people pass away and when anyone passes away don't incarnate immediate ly. You know, there is a time. Of course in that dimension it's like no time, you go out of this room and into another room just like opening the door and going. But in our dimension we regard it as time. So when you die you would reincarnate immedi ately. But to measure it in our dimension you would say 50 years, 100 years, 200 years. And those beings there are so busy formulating their next birth they are so busy formulating, evaluating and getting ready to be born again. Yet there are some ve ry very evolved beings who still have to come for one little experience to achieve finality, to achieve totality, and the thought forces that they are made up of the subtle body is nothing but a thought force so those thought forces don't come down t o you to help you. They don't. But if you are ready you can draw upon those thought forces. There's no time up there for them to come down and help you or whatever. People say when you pass away and you're a good person the angels come along, you know, and help you. In Hindu mythology after the person dies, the eldest son is obliged to have certain ceremonies, prayer ceremonies, where a cow is donated to the priest. Now the purpose is this, that you reach a river and you've got to cross that river on the other side. So what you do is this, the cow swims and you catch on to his tail and you get pulled across that river. Utter bloody rubbish! VOICE: The priest gets the cow. GURURAJ: The priest gets the cow. That is the business the priest gets the cow! So all these stories are created. Discard them all, chuck them all, chuck, chuck, chuck, chuck them all. It's okay, you know, to pass the time, enliven the mind, perhaps , or find some little temporary mental pleasure. But for that only. The only thing is to bring the mind to positive thinking, helpful thinking, and translating that in serving, helping others here, here, here on this planet while we are all together. Th at is all. And through that process of love, devotion, service, the mind gains greater and greater and greater peace. And doing meditational and spiritual practices you go to the deeper and deeper layers of the mind where you really feel gradually how mo re and more powerful the mind is becoming, how more and more it is opening up into greater and greater awareness, how the inner core of your personality you know where the spiritual force is centered

13. U S 80 - 31 you draw on that and it works in a circle: each h elps the other. That's all we have to do nothing else! All these stories and mythologies and... it's a waste of time really, waste of time. And all these stories and things have been created by the priest class. All the stories in Egypt were created by the priests. The priests actually controlled the pharaohs and there were pharaoh priests. In India the same thing. The [Shatriyas?] the rulers, were totally controlled by the priest class, a nd the priest class always used to see that they preserved their authority: that such and such a thing must be done or else you are cursed. I remember in olden times if you had to go to another country and come back, you would have to go through an elaborate prayer ceremony a [Yagya?] and all that for your purification. Otherwise you are impure. See there are things like that. It is business, that's all. They are all based on a socio economic system. In Indian marriages.... Now the essence of it takes about half an hour to perform a wedding. Now and the n, before I used to do a lot of weddings, Hindu weddings, now I don't, just now and then for some personal friend I might do it. I still do blessings and things, that's different, bu t I mean the actual performance of the wedding. Now, I've seen these wed dings in India where the priest lengthens it out for about three hours. And in that heat and with that sacrificial fire burning there those poor kids are really having a tough time sitting there getting married. And then they carry on with various chanti ng picked out from the various Vedas, and then he chants there and he points there. And now the uncle has to sit next to you the maternal uncle with a bag of money. So you know, says one chant, put one rupee there please, that's to appease this god. Then another one chant, O Vishvanyi, [Hindu prayer], that's rupees, another god, then another chant, O Varuna, then to Indra, then to Agni, and that is why there are three hundred million gods. You see the racket. And the priest knows exactly what the man is worth. If he's a wealthy man then more gods are brought into the picture: one rupee there, one rupee there, there, there, and then after the wedding ceremony is over, he gathers all that and puts it into his bag. So the uncle's bag is empty and it g oes into the other bag. So it is so disappointing to see all these things. On a recent trip to India South India, there was this one beautiful temple. The architecture was out of this world it was in [Tiropati?]. Now, in that temple there is the g olden fish. It's cut out of a gold plate. I don't know if it's rolled gold, solid gold that doesn't matter, and it's knocked up against the ce iling it's knocked up against the ceiling. Now you walk in this one place you pay, I think it was four an as you have to pay a nickel, you have to pay a nickel and then you go through and there's queues of people you talk of gullibility her e queues of people extending. Now the whole theory is this, that if you go there and you touch that fish.... No w there is a ladder going up this way, steps, and you go up the steps, touch the fish and you go down the other step and out by the exit. Now the whole theory is this, that if you touch that fish all your sins are washed away. And people believe that. T hey believe that. I went in for the sake of curiosity to see what racket is being run. Can't we get some fishes like that so

14. U S 80 - 31 that [????] don't need to worry about paying up his rent and lights and telephone? Like that. Like that. I could tell you so ma ny stories. I could tell you so many stories about all these things. We have to.... ****END****

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