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United States 81-35

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1. U S 81 - 35 MELTING INTO THE INFINITE [Master tape was broken. Tape has been proofed against a copy only] INTRODUCER: This is a satsang with Gururaj Ananda Yogi, USA 1981, Number 35, recorded at Techni Towers in Illinois. GURURAJ: There was a person who asked a friend, "I believe at your church the congregation is so small." So the friend replies that, "W henever the pastor says, `Dearly Beloved', it sounds like a proposal." [LAUGHTER] Good. Fine. What shall we talk about tonight? QUESTIONER: [??????] GURURAJ: Umm humm. Good. QUESTIONER: Guruji, you once said in [???????] satsang that your teaching goes beyond the teaching of Vedanta, and I was wondering... as I understand the Vedanta says that we melt into the infinite. Where else can we go? GURURAJ: Who says you melt into the infinite? Who says we melt into the infinite? Is it a presumption o f man's mind that we melt into the infinite? And if you do melt into the infinite how are you going to know that you have melted away? For melting away into the infinite becomes an experience. [Copy begins here] Now what part of [your experience is?] [y ou experiences?] this? It could only be your mind and the mind being finite, how does it know it is melting away into the infinite? The question would arise, "Is there an infinite?" Or, is the finiteness of life the sum totality of all? So, is the infi nite a projection of man's mind, or is the infinite a reality? That is the question. Now, if we do think of the infinite, how do w e think of the infinite? Do we believe in the infinite, do we have faith in the infinite, or do we know the infinite? For belief could be totally conditioned by your mind like all kinds of beliefs they are conditionings of the mind. You believe someone is good and you find that person to be good because you believe that. You find someone not so good, it is also your mind saying and the interpretation of your mind that says that I believe that this is not good. If you see some

2. U S 81 - 35 situation, you believe that such and such a thing did occur, while another person will see the same situation happening and will have a totally different interpretation of the situation. So now comparing the interpretations of five different people, that which was seen, that which was perceived, becomes unreal, for reality lies within your mind. Good. Now, if the mind is finite that means that it has its limitations. Then what right do we have with the finite mind to say that there is the infinite? Now the Vedantic teachings, they go far as the principle of supreme knowledge, supreme existence and supreme bliss. What part of man experiences [so meone sneezes] (Bless you. The second one stopped. [Laughter]) Good. So, the mind or the Vedanta can only go far as supreme existence, supreme knowledge and supreme bliss. Now which part of you experiences this? Is it not an experience of the mind? T he mind on its conscious level is governed by the senses. The mind at the conscious level is dictated to by the impressions the senses receive: this is hot, this is cold , this is soft, this is hard, this is not good smelling, the other is fragrant smelli ng. And the impression received by the senses is interpreted by the conscious level of the mind, but not only that, it has to go further, because within the subconscious level every person contains the memory box which acts as the place where things are c ompared. If you see a tree, what makes you recognize it as a tree? Because within the memory box of your subconscious mind you have seen trees before and therefore you say, "This is a tree." You have seen a dog before so you say, "This is a dog." But if you should come across something which is not contained within your subconscious mind and the subconscious mind is nothing else but a gathering of various kinds of experiences now if you have not experienced this particular thing, how are you going to recognize what it is? A blind person that has not seen the color of red will be told what red is about, but not having the impression in his mind or the senses to convey the redness of red, can never touch the memory box of previous experience of what red is about. So now here the subconscious mind has to work in total conjunction with the conscious mind and it is the combination of the conscious mind and the subconscious mind that gives you all the experiences that you have in life. But now when we talk of the infinite, we have another level of the mind which we term the superconscious level which is closest to that which is infinite but it is not infinite. It can reflect infinity within its bounds, within its limitations; it has an idea of what in finity is about. And that idea in turn is conveyed through the various layers of the subconscious to the conscious mind, and then we have a glimmer, just a glimmer, and an idea that is formed which says, "Ah! There is an infinite." But remember, this is an idea. Where does idea come from? "I." The biggest obstacle in an idea is the sense of "I" "I"dea. Now, the "I" within man is never destructible, but it could be refined, and the method of refining it is to be able to reach the superconscious level of the mind where some glimmer, to repeat again, is achieved of the infinite. So man can only reach the level of the superconscious state of mind where he would experience absolute knowledge and that's

3. U S 81 - 35 a wrong word although they use it, because knowled ge is never absolute. They say absolute bliss. Bliss is never absolute. They say absolute existence, and that is never absolute, too, because it requires interpretation from the various layers of the mind, and when the mind is involved it becomes relat ive. So now, the question would remain, "How do we find the infinite?" And not only how do we find the infinite, but also, "What is the infinite?" Now, when we reach the highest layer, the subtlest layer of the mind, we reach one state which we know to b e the personal god because the personal god is the sum totality of all knowledge, all bliss, and all existence but that is not the totality of it all. It is the totality from the grossest relative to the finest relative. So here is one cy cle of relat ive totality within the confines of the grosser finite towards the most refined subtle finite. Then where is the infinite, and can man experience the infinite? No. No. No. Man cannot experience the infinite. Man can experience the totality of all exis tence which we know as the personal god, so man's experience as man as embodied man can experience the personal god. Then to experience the personal god, what do you do? Who is your personal god? Who is your personal god? Your personal god is ver y near you: your wife, your husband, your beloved, the object of your total devotion that becomes your god or your goddess because in that love that would flow, in that communication, that interchange, that interdependence, that all giving, all sacrif ice, all surrender, is with the personal god when you say, "I am thee, my beloved, and thou art but me." So, the Upanishads go as far as saying, "Tat Twam Asi" Thou Art That. But what is That? That is the question, beloveds, that is the question. W hat do you define as That? That which you define as That is the personalized form which you can concretize within your thinking level of mind at the conscious level of experience and beyond that a subliminal level of experience. And in meditation and s piritual practices, that very object of your devotion to whom consciously, physically, mentally you pour all your love assumes a different dimension, a different aspect where now you are not concerned with the body anymore of your beloved or the mind, but that level of the mind which supersedes, which goes beyond to its subtlest level, and that level is the universal level of the entirety of all existence. It is the universe. S o when I love you, do I love you only the body or your mind or what lies in the subconscious mind that motivates the conscious mind? No. No. No. That's animal love. And perhaps it might have some human qualities to it. But the god man loves differently because he connects immediately to the superconscious level, and by connecti ng himself to the superconscious level, he is in direct communication, in direct communion with the object of his love at that universal level, so the personalized god becomes your beloved. That. Therefore, they say in Sanskrit, "Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu , [Guru Maheshvarama?]."

4. U S 81 - 35 Now that can be directed to a stone. That can be directed to the guru. That can be directed to your husband, to your wife, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, to whoever, because you are using that only as a symbol. What you are do ing in actuality, what you are really doing is projecting the totality of yourself to the object. And when you project the totality of yourself to the object, there ceases to be any differentiation between subject and object. As long as you function with in the conscious mind and the subconscious mind, there will be "me and you," but at that level of the superconscious state of mind, the "me and you" ceases and "I" merge with the personal god. And this is what all theologies teach. This is what Vedanta t eaches. But when we say we go beyond that to know what the infinite is, it's a different thing altogether. It belongs to a different cycle that is blissless bliss, knowledgeless knowledge, existenceless existence. So remember this well now. On the one hand the Vedanta says absolute knowledge, absolute bliss, absolute existence. We say knowledgeless knowledge, blissless bliss, existenceless existence. Now, let us compare the two. Are you with me? Goodie, goodie, good! Right. To merge with the infin ite is not an experience, for experiences are only of mind at whichever level gross level and the subtlest level that is still withi n the framework of relativity. But when we talk of the infinite we are talking of Absolute values beyond any compari son, and when it comes to relativity, relativity means one thing: that you judge one thing, you experience one thing relative to another thing. I mean, physicists will tell you that. You will only know black if you compare it to white. You will only k n ow heat if you compare it to cold. That is a relative experience. It is an experience of comparison and that experience becomes false. As we said a moment ago, that five people can experience one thing in five different ways. So therefore, when we speak of delusion or illusion, we must remember and this is beyond vedanta when we speak of delusion and illusion, it means that the object itself is not an illusion. The Vedantas maintain that that is an illusion. The object of perception is not... the object is not an illusion, it is not a delusion, but your interpretation is the illusion because it becomes unreal. Why? Because of interpretation; how you interpret something. Today you want to go to the movies and you are in a good frame of mind, you are happy. You will enjoy that movie. But if you had to go to see the same movie in an unhappy frame of mind, then that movie does not become enjoyable at all to you. What is at fault: the movie or you? So, the enjoyment of the picture is dependent on the state of your mind, and the state of your mind creates the illusion. The state of your mind creates the illusion. The state of your mind finds reality within unreality and unreality within real ity. Now, this as we said to repeat again because these are very important factors, we are now, tonight, bringing forth new thoughts thoughts that have been established, so called established thoughts over the ages, over thousand of years. But we are adding a different dimension to it tonight. Now, what shall we do with the infinite? The mind is incapable of perceiving the infinite which is the impersonal god. But the mind at the subtlest level is capable of perceiving the persona l god in any object of yo ur choice, any object of your love, any object of your devotion. When I look into the eyes of my

5. U S 81 - 35 beloved, what do I see? Not her face or pretty eyes or whatever. No. No. No. I see her not through the conscious or the subconscious, but through the s uperconscious level of the mind, and that being universal, I see universality in her and there is only one universality so between her and me, no differentiation exists for I am thee and thou art me. Now I've repeated this three times now because it must be thoroughly registered for what we are going on to next. Now, when we ask the question, "Is there an infinite?" the mind cannot verify it. The mind cannot experience it. Yet, the injunctions are there of that infinity, of that impersonal God. How am I to know the impersonal God? And what is the impersonal God? What kind of power or force has he or she or it that's a better word because it is neutral it is neith er she nor it, it is, just "it." What is that it? What is that it? This the mind can never answer. When Buddha was asked the questions about that IT, he remained silent because that IT is nothingness; and yet contained within the nothingness is the everythingness not experienceable by the mind. Now, how do I find that infiniteness , for the personal god, too, is finite, remember that. All the Krishnas and all the Buddhas and all the Christs represent the personal god that the person can experience and therefore called the personal god. But that which is impersonal, how is a person going to experience it? Only one way. Only one way. By becoming impersonal. How do we become impersonal? That is the question. How do we attain the state of impersonality? And we know so well that as long as we are embodied there is a personality. How much refined you are the greatest guru, the king of the gurus, all the Christs and Buddhas and what have you, still have that fine layer of that little ego self giving them personality. So when it comes to the impersonal, personality has to be lost totally and it cannot be done while you have this body. [Airplane noises] It cannot be done while you have this body and thinking with the mind. So what do we do? We discard the body. We discard the mind and go into what the Buddhists would call [Sunyet a?] zero. Zero Sunyeta nothingness. And yet any mathematician will tell you that all mathematics, for example, is based upon zero. Without zero, mathematics cannot exit. All the formulas become destroyed without the zero. Now I ask you, why do you want to experience the infinite? Why do you want to experience the nothingness? Experience the everythingness. Worry more about the personal god than the impersonal one. Think more of the personal god. Think of the Buddhists or the Christs or the Krishnas or whichever master you believe in think of that master, for philosophy must become practical. From the metaphysical to the physical and within the physical realm, combine all that which is beyond it. Never try to understand the impersonal. It is beyond the understanding. But there is a state where the impersonal could become real to you. How can we bring the impersonal into the personal without recognizing it? That is the paradox that has never been answered. But yet there is an answer wh ich would please the mind, yet the mind will know nothing of it. For that impersonal is the generating force that infinite is the generating force of the finite. Water, as I've used this analogy before perhaps somewhere, I don't know, there's water in the river the river contains so much

6. U S 81 - 35 electricity. But that electricity cannot be tapped without the generator, and through the generator that impersonal force is made personal. That intangible force is made tangible so that this light burns. Now, what are you experiencing really? Is the level of your thinking concentrated on this light that burns? Yes. Because that is just as far as your thinking can go. You recognize the light. You experience the light. That's all you need. Are you going t o analyze the electricity that's in the water? It is beyond analysis. For no scientist up to now has ever proved or known what electricity is. In the same way the impersonal can be experienced through the personal. The power in the hydro system can be e xperienced as the light or as the heat in your stove or as the coldness in your refrigerator. And that is what the mind needs. So, with greater clarification, with a greater cleansing of the conscious and the subconscious through meditation and spiritual practices, the impersonal automatically manifests itself as the light you perceive. Until then it is darkness. It is ignorance. It is nescience. And the mind finds this ignorance to be absolute knowledge. Rubbish! So that impersonal force intangib le is perceived tangibly by the mind through a few methods: by devotion it can be experienced; by jnana yoga, analysis, it can be experienced not the impersonal, the personal; bhakti, jnana, by just living a good life. Do no harm unto others. Do n ot do unto others as you expect not to be done unto you. Right. And through spiritual practices, raja yoga, this too all can be experienced. But yet we have not been able to define the impersonal by the mind. No. The impersonal can only be experienced. How? How? You are not experiencing electricity. You are not experiencing this lamp. You are not experiencing this bulb. But you are experiencing the light it gives. So that is how with proper understanding, through proper practices, you are experien cing the impersonal. So, when the mind reaches a higher and higher stage, you slowly see the underlying substance, the underlying cause of all that which exists the underlying cause of the entire universe. So, the impersonal is not that which is gaine d by absolute knowledge, absolute bliss, absolute existence. No. No. No. The impersonal god can be experienced what existence can show us. And that is within the territory of the mind. And, to say again, the more the mind is led to its subtler and sub tler levels, the more and more the impersonal becomes personalized in your life. Practical philosophy. Yes. So, though the mind cannot understand through analysis that which is impersonal, but the infusion can be experienced. Ah! The infusion of the imp ersonal can be experienced in the personal so when I look at my beloved through that superconscious layer of the mind at its finest relative value, I experience her universal self, and at the same time I find i n that finite universal self the infusion of t he impersonal.

7. U S 81 - 35 Now, when man reaches that stage of seeing the impersonal in the personal, then he loses his personality, and that's the greatest fear man has. He does not want to lose his personality. He clings to it. He clings to the dirt and the mire of this personality. (Is baby fine? Good) You see. Now, this to many sounds so paradoxical paradoxical: para ox ical beyond the ox. No, no beloveds. No. No. The impersonal can definitely be experienced in the personal. You then go beyond t he universal. For the universal is not the totality of existence. The universe is but a superimposition, a reflection only of the impersonal, and to really know it as a reflection and to enjoy the reflection as the reflection as it is discover ed by one's mind, there lies your joy, there lies the bliss, [there lies it?] That is what we call bliss, knowledge, existence. But, but, but, let us move away from bliss. Let us move away from existence. Let us move away from knowledge. What is left there? Let' s move away from the light, from the lamp. Move to the generator. Move further on to the hydroelectric power in the water. Then, where do you land up? You become the electricity. You become the hydroelectric power in that oneness where you become Brah man. So, you go beyond universality that has name and form into the nameless and formless. The personal god has attributeless and it's a leap into the unknown. Leap as far as the entire existence, the entire universe is concerned. It c an be known. But w hat is there, as the Upanishads would say, "What is there that one can find? What is there that one can know and by knowing which everything else is known?" This, too, your Vedantists have put limitations on it because it's not a question of knowing. It 's a question of being. And when you become the electric power in the flowing waters you are just electric power which does not experience itself as electric power. The Impersonal does not experience itself at all. Experience only comes about when it rea ches the personal level. So, do you see the various gradations of experience? So, to reach knowledge of the entirety of the universe, to experience the bliss of the entirety of the universe, to experience the existence of the entirety of the universe, tha t is as far as Vedanta goes. We want to go beyond that and just be it. Huh? [END SIDE ONE] And just be it. No [experience?] experiencer?], no Manifestor, no manifestation, nothing. And then you have reached home. You have gone beyond all the conce pts that theologies have about God. But to be merged in the electricity, we got to get rid of the lamp, we got to get rid of the generator, and plunge in that ri ver. And you then become the source of it all. Your river flows into the ocean, and yet the ocean does not become more full. For where did the river come from in the first place? Which is the largest mass of water on this little planet Earth? The seas and the oceans. And by evaporation the rains come and the rain forms themselves within these b anks, channels, as rivers. So from the Impersonal you come and back to the Impersonal; from that nothingness you come, and go back into nothingness. So therefore, then I say, the path to THAT is joyful, is blissful. By that I mean that you reach the hig hest

8. U S 81 - 35 relative state where you can experience this bliss and experience all existence and all knowledge, but to end into the nothingness that you really are, and that nothingness is the everythingness of life. Here's a little which I've told many times to i llustrate my point. A chela went to a guru and he asked about the infinite. What is the infinite? So the guru says, "Go pluck that fruit from that tree." The chela brought the fruit. He says, "Open that fruit." Fine, it was done. "Take out the seed." That was done. "Break open the seed." That was done. "What do you find in the seed that was broken open?" "Nothing." Nothing. And yet it is that nothing that some kind of energy which makes the seed grow the tree to produce the fruit to become the s eed again. And breaking the seed, nothing is found. That is the cycle that everything goes through. And science will tell you that this entire universe gets sucked in in the process of evolution back into that black hole. Becomes so dense that in its de nseness when it becomes too dense it has to explode. So the entire universe is sucked in from one side, and the explosion occurs from the other side, and another cycle occurs. In Sanskrit it is called pralay. And everything [is sucked in?]. And creatio n and explosion occurs. So this universe is ever on going in cyclical form. The cycle is not eternal, but the combinations of all the cycles, cycle after cy cle after cycle, its very functioning, is eternal. It's very functioning as cycle after cycle aft er cycle is eternal. But I would say this: Why bother about the infinite? What does it help you? What does it help anyone? To try and know that which cannot be known? It was neither dark, it was neither light; the Upanishads tell you that. There was no sun, there was no clouds; the Upanishads tell you that. Now that state is that state of nothingness. But so little understood. Man has to understand what can bring him peace and joy in this little existence of ours. That's what he needs to know on ly in this lifetime. Forget that infinite. Rather let me know the fullness of the finite, for the finite within its own cyc le is a fullness in itself, and let me enjoy that. Now this is not hedonistic pleasure. No. That has to do only with the senses. But help me, Lord, to transcend the senses. Help me, Lord, to get rid of my possessions, or that which I think I possess, or that which I think I am attached to. Help me, Lord to move further and further away, gradually and gradually away from the thing s which I think I possess, from the things I think I own. I don't own my wife, I don't own my girlfriend, I don't own my mother and neither my father. I own no one. No. I love them, yes. Why do I love them? Because within me the very nature of finite expression is love. The Impersonal Infinite knows of no love. It knows of no hate. It is qualityless. But in the finite sphere of existence in which we are all involved, knows that love and can express itself through that love. And i f any man feels p ossessed by anything whatsoever, be it a woman, wealth, name, fame, it can only bring misery [plane noises]. So what is man essentially trying to do? He is trying to get rid of the things that trouble him. He is trying to move away from misery. Now that is practical living. That is practical living, and practical living trying to move away, and having moved beyond misery, then you are living God, and that is the living God the world needs today at this stage. Do you

9. U S 81 - 35 see? That's what the world needs . And this cannot be done by wishful thinking. "Oh, Lord, give me a million pounds. Oh, Lord, give me a 50 room mansion. Give me this, give me that." What the hell for, I ask you. Why must he do that for you? You don't need it. Huh? If the necessity is there, it will be provided. Who are you to beg or demand from that supreme forget the infinite from that supreme, finite, personal god? Our Father which art in Heaven. That's the one you pray to, and which all must pray to. That is a finite go d, the sum totality of entire existence, knowledge, and bliss. But that "Our Father" also has a Father beyond quality. Because the Father we pray to, we put qualities upon Him: He's merciful, He's just, He's kind, He's compassionate. And any good quali ty you put to anything remember it is confined within the boundaries of the law of opposites. So then that God if we visualize or think of Him as just, there must be injustice in that somewhere too. We think of Him as love according to our conception, then there must be hate as well. It's a mixture of it all. Now when we recognize this, that this universe that we live in is a mixture of it all, then we can view our troubl es and our problems from a totally different angle. Because all this is, it also is. This light is, although its power comes from an unknown source that's indefinable; electricity is indefinable. So we talk of becoming this and becoming that. And we make life such a complexity, instead of bringing it down to its primal simplicity. There was this poor man who won a lottery: one million dollars, this lottery. So he was at work in the fields, poor man, and his wife got the telegram that the lottery ticket won one million dollars. So the wife got worried. She thought, "If I should tell my husband that he has won one million dollars, he will get a heart attack. So naturally, she wanted some good counsel. And the person she would think of was the priest of the local church, whom she revered and respected. So, she went into the prie st and she said, "This is the problem. We've received a telegram that my husband has won one million dollars in this lottery, but if I give him the news he won't be able to digest it, he'll get a heart attack." So the priest thought and thought, and he s ays, "Look, leave this to me. Let me handle this matter." So the priest came to visit this poor man, and he says, "Friend, I've got some good news for you. And the news is this, that you've won $50,000." This poor man was quite elated. So he says, "Wel l, it has been through the grace of the powers that be, so seeing that I've won $50,000, I am donating to you and your church $25,000." And the priest had a heart attack. [Laughter] You know, I think I'm talking too long. Let me see if I can find another joke here. Now there was this church minister. Of course he was in the habit of preparing long sermons. But what happened Sunday morning was this, that his dog got hold of the sermon. And this dog loved chewing papers. So now rushing Sunday morning b ecause Saturday night was quite a heavy night for the priest (I don't know what the hell he was doing) and he was feeling not well. So Sunday morning he rushes to the church and he took his papers there off the desk and of course he started on his sermon. And his sermon he managed to speak for hour and a half, two hours at a time, and when he looked around, he started with his sermon

10. U S 81 - 35 and he only spoke for ten minutes. So at this church there was another person who belonged to another church, which was quite a distance away but he was attending this service. God is everywhere in every church so why be late for the sermon in my own church, let me take in the sermon in this church. So when the pastor only spoke for ten minutes, he apologized. He sai d, "I'm very sorry, my beloveds, that the sermon is so short. What happened was this, that I spent a whole week preparing the sermon, but the dog got hold of it and he chewed up all the papers. And this is all that was left. So we'll have to end the ser mon." So after the service was over, this fellow from the other church came to the pastor, and he says, "Sir, will you please do me a favor? Has your dog got pups? Because I'd like to take one of your pups and present it to my pastor at my church." [L aughter] Good, I think we've spoken long enough. Beautiful question, beautiful question. I think we've spoken more than an hour. Ok, fine. I know many of you have traveled long distances. You must be tired. Do rest well. See you in the morning. An d then we'll get some lovely questions, we'll discuss them. Ok. Fine. Good. ****END****

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