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1. U S 82 - 21 LOYOLA UNIVERSITY INTRO T ALK/RAPID FIRE GURURAJ: What we'll do this afternoon, I don't know if Vidya has given you an outline, is this that we have one question on which I could talk for as long as you like three quarter of an hour, or an hour or more. And then after that we have a rapid fire session, where you are welcome to ask any question you like. And we can discuss it. Fine. Good. Questions. VIDYA: Guruji, what we did is we put our heads together and we formed one long question. GURURAJ: Very good. Very good. VIDYA: What is meditation? What is contemplative prayer? How do you relate meditation to the business and medical world? GURURAJ: And the medical... VIDYA: Medical world. GURURAJ: Medical. I still can't get used to the Americanese. VIDYA: How d o you relate meditation to the business world, medical world, and what do you see for the future of religious life for the world? GURURAJ: Thank you. What is religious life? And as you well know, the meaning of the word means to bind back. To bind back to what, that is the question. Now, there could be a hundred arguments against the existence of Divinity. And there could be just as many arguments to the non existence of Divinity. So the mind can only analyze. And through various theologies we analyz e things. And these theologies are formulated through man's mind. And that is the reason why they differ so much from each other. And yet, if we go deep down we'll find the basis of all religions but to be the same. And as we meditate and go beyond to

2. U S 82 - 21 the deeper layers of the mind, we would find that deep peace. We would find that source of energy. And you can call it the Kingdom of Heaven within. Right. Now, in order to do this you have to have a system of meditation by which you go through the co nscious mind, and then through the various levels of the subconscious mind, and to the area which I term the superconscious mind. Now, that is the highest extent which man could reach, because he has limitations. And his limitations are there because he i s embodied. But to be able to reach the highest level of ourselves, which is the superconscious level of the mind, would mean that we have reached the highest level of relativity. And the highest level of relativity is that which is formed by th e entire emanation of this whole universe, and that could be termed as the personal god. But that is not the furthest that you go. There is still another area which is the Absolute, which we term the impersonal God without form, without shape, but just a very su btle, fine energy. Now, what happens in meditation is this, that you find a systematic method whereby you do not only utilize the left hemisphere of your brain, but you put into greater activation the right hemisphere of your brain. And as you students wo uld know, that the left hemisphere is the one that analyzes, rationalizes; while the right hemisphere is the area that is more intuitive. So in order to recognize that Divinity within us, we have to have greater synaptic control between the left and the r ight hemispheres. So the more the right hemisphere is awakened, the more could you go to the deeper levels of yourself. And to repeat again, you reach the Kingdom of Heaven within. Now, the so called subconscious level of your mind is the repository of m emory. And that memory starts from the Big Bang when this universe came into being. And so this subatomic particle went on and on. It duplicated itself, replicated itself, got mixed with other particles, and so this fine energy became of a much more gro sser form: the mineral kingdom, the plant, the animal and then to the stage of man. Now, what stands between man and God? Only the mind. For if God is omnipresent, He is present in everything, in every cell of your body. And the brain, being a very fi ne instrument...we have not awakened the twelve billion cells that composes this two and a half to three pound weight which we call the brain. We are only using one millionth part of those twelve billion cells. Through meditation and through the greater use of being in contact with the right hemisphere of the brain, we awaken more and more cells. Your thinking becomes precise. Your thinking becomes accurate. And you could practically see around corners. So God plus mind makes man. Man minus mind makes God. So the greatest stumbling block is the mind. And without reaching the subtlest layer of the mind, the superconscious level, then only would we have some glimpse of that which is Divine. Every day people repeat in their prayers, and from the pulpits they tell you... I do gather that most of you are entering the church as priests or pastors or whatever? Being under the pastoral study,

3. U S 82 - 21 something. Well, whatever it is, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So, to repeat again, God plus mind makes man, and man minus mind makes God. So our greatest stumbling block is the mind. Now, you cannot control your mind. The more you try and control it, the more aggressive it becomes. You know, there was a chela, or a student of a guru, and he went to this guru and said, "Teach me how to float on water on a bed sheet. I'd like to put a bed sheet down on the water, sit on it, and it must become a raft for me." So this young man was very persistent. Because true gurus are never really interested in occultism or psychic phenomenas. Because they are just revolving and rotating on the mind level and not going deeper down. But this fellow being so persistent that the guru thought, "Well, let's find a plan for him." The guru told him that you'll have to do a lot of meditation in order to accomplish this, but there is one thing you must not do, and it is this, that never think about a monkey." You see. So every time this fellow started to meditate the first thought that would crop up in his mind would be monkey, mon key, monkey. You see. So the more you try to control your mind, the more stubborn the mind becomes. So you have to find a certain way where the mind is brought under control without controlling it, and that is the secret of successful meditation. That i s the secret where you could really be bound back to where you belong, for all of you are children of God. There is no separation between you and Divinity, for you are Divinity itself. On the one hand you'd find this in the Bible to certain people Chr ist had to teach in different ways. To some that could not understand he would say, "Pray to thy Father in Heaven." But to those that could understand he said, "My Father and I are one." And that "I" that he mentioned did not only represent, he did not only talk about the man called Jesus, but he talked about men as a whole that I and my Father are one. In Sanskrit we would say, Brahmasmi: I am Brahma. But in order to reach that stage you have to go through a form of dualism to reach that unqualified monism, where you not only think that you and the Father are one...where you not only think, but you experience it. It was about two years ago when I had a press conference, where members of the English newspapers were invited to a wine and cheese and a pr ess conference. And I told them that I've not come to empty churches or synagogues or temples, I've come to fill them. But the trouble lies with our priests. Any question you ask them, they refer you to the book, chapter so and so and chapter so and so, verse so and so. And then they might indulge in a bit of analysis. I say that is not what the churches need today. What the churches or temples or synagogues need is experience. Give them the experience of Divinity through meditation, and then they will come flocking to the church. The churches will become full. For theology also has its roll to play. The age is fast approaching now, and it is here where people, especially America, have become so technologically advanced but yet a deep dissatisfac tion is in their hearts. So, slowly they are turning inward. Up till now they were forever going outward. Now, they are turning inward. But it is idle just to try and turn inward and pray, pray, pray, when

4. U S 82 - 21 how many people really know how to pray? They do not pray. They do business with God. Yes. If I pass my examination, my dear Lord, I will donate such and such amount to the Cripple Care Society or the Woman's Organization or any good organization. They bargain with God. If you do this for me, the n I will do this for you. The real way is to do it first. And who are you to demand from God? You have no right to demand from Divinity. Deserve, that is the word. And all your demands are automatically met. So the purpose of meditation, or the aid to greater successful prayer would be meditation. When do people really pray? When they are in trouble. Oh, God, my son is ill and please make him better. Or I've got to pay the rent bill end of this month, you know, send me the money. As if He's going to throw it down on your lap. Business, business, business Vat a business. Do you see. So through meditation when your mind is brought down to that quietude, the thoughts you have...the thoughts that are produc ed, after producing in yourself that quietude, becomes more powerful. For the grosser the thought, the less force it has. And the subtler the thought, the more power it has. If you throw down a two thousand ton bomb somewhere in Chicago it might make a b ig hole say, a mile wide and a mile deep, perhaps. But if you split an atom you'll destroy the entire Chicago. You see. So you become more powerful the deeper you go within yourself. And by meditation you reach that superconscious level, and you do no t come back empty handed. It is like walking into a perfume factory, spending half an hour there, and you will come out smelling like perfume, undoubtedly. So to reach that area is not difficult. It's a very simple scientific method which is individual ly prescribed, not like some of the organizations you have here, where they have about sixteen mantras or so in a hat and they pick out one to give you. I went to visit one guru who had a whole lot of cards printed with a so called mantra on it, and someo ne asks give me a mantra, and so he just picks a card. There's your mantra. That's no good! Because you are nothing else but vibration. The entire universe is nothing else but vibration in different states or grades of condensation. We can use the analo gy of water vapor. When that becomes more condensed it becomes water. That water could become frozen and it becomes a solid block of ice. But the principle of H2O remains the same. You see. So through meditation you become a more stable person. And how many of you that are sitting here could really say that I am totally sane? Can anyone have the courage or the guts to put up their hands? Nice to meet you, sir. If you can really say that I've met God in person. [HE LAUGHS] Beautiful. Beautiful. So man lives with a fragmented mind. One part of your mind is pulling you this way, and another part is pulling you that way and you are torn to pieces. What we need, and this is what meditation produces, is integration; where mind, body and spirit flows i n totality. Flows in totality. I was addressing a symposium on holistic health in Las Vegas. That was about two years ago? About two years ago. And this is what I pointed out to the panel. We were about six or seven on the panel: some psychiatrists, ps ychologists

5. U S 82 - 21 and physiologists and I spoke from the spiritual angle. And I told them that everything is a continuum. There is no separation between the body, and there is no separation between the mind from the body, or the spirit from the mind. It is on e wholeness. Picture to yourself a [board there?]. Let's use the color blue. At one end you'll find it very light and steadily going deeper, deeper into a very deep blue. Now, the side of the blue that is very deep, that is the grosser level of ourselv es. And at its other end it is a very light blue, the finer level of ourselves. Do you see. You know, we're talking of prayer reminds me of a little story. I've got about a dozen jokes here. There was this one man who was very fond of swearing. So one day this pastor called him aside, and he says, "Look, you swear too much." So the man admitted it. He says, "I do swear, father." And then the man says, "Father, you pray too much." Father says, "Yes." So this man replies, "I swear too much and you p ray too much, and we both mean nothing" [HE CHUCKLES] So that kind of prayer is valueless: Om, Dominium... [HE MUMBLES]. No! Bring your mind to that quietude and let that thought be such a positive thought. Because in prayer most of your thoughts are negative. Negative thoughts. This one boy was asked about the Lord's Prayer. Why do you pray, "Give us this day our daily bread?" So his friend says, "You should not do that. Pray for the whole week. Lord, give us seven days of bread." So his friend replies, "No, in this way I can get it fresh every day." [LAUGHTER] Yes. And these priests that preach. So at this church a great man was passing by. You know, the principal of Loyola University. So going through a small town, and being a religious man he attended the service. So this little pastor of this small place asked him afterwards, "Sir, did you like my sermon?" So this great man replied, "Oh, yes. It was like peace and mercy." Now, this pastor was very flattered by it, and he says, "Sir, how could you say such a thing like peace and mercy?" "Well," he was explained, "It was like peace that passeth all understanding. And it was like mercy because I thought you would go on forever as God's mercy goes on forever." [HE LAUGHS] Yes. So wha t man is consciously or unconsciously aiming for is to find happiness, or to find peace within himself. And if he finds that peace within himself, he can be at peace with the environment. Because the nature of a flower, to use an analogy, is to be beauti ful. But that's not the only thing the flower does, but it also enhances the beauty of the garden. And when we say in our scriptures, "Man, know thyself," and knowing thyself, you'll be knowing God. You'll be knowing Divinity. And how do you know yourse lf if you cannot enter that deep state of meditation, if you cannot integrate yourself? Where your mind and body and spirit does not function in total harmony, how can you know yourself? For example, people don't even know how to make love. They don't ev en know... I beg your pardon, Madam. People don't even know how to make love. They use their minds to stimulate their bodies and the subconscious area filled with past experiences and find those experiences to be pleasurable, and therefore their bodies a nd minds get stimulated. They go deep into themselves and pick up out from the cubbyhole. They see a pretty woman or their beautiful wives and

6. U S 82 - 21 they go back into their minds and find that pleasurable experience being registered there and associate it with the body and then they make love. But that is not the totality of even lovemaking. How many people in this world can use their body, their mind, and their spirit in that oneness, and then make love? For then do you know what happens then? Huh? The wom an disappears, the man disappears, and the only thing that remains is this vast orgasm. That is making love. You see. People don't know how to breathe. People don't know how to make love. They don't know how to eat. Everything is associated to two t hings: pain and pleasure. That which is associated to pain they avoid. And that which is associated to pleasure they try to stick to. And yet they do not find joy or satisfaction within themselves. You can only find that peace when you reach the area o f joy, and joy is beyond pain and pleasure. For with pain and pleasure you are still operating within the law of opposites. If you have a high mountain to climb, you stand down here and you say, "Oh, God, would I be able to climb right up there? Seems so difficult." But if you are flying in an airplane that would just seem like a little hill, a few hills in a row. So it is fo r us to rise above the heights, above the levels of pain and pleasure. Then only can we have a true view of ourselves. And that h eight can be reached by, although it might sound contrary, that height can be reached by going deep within. Do you see. And then once you are in the area of joy, you view things in a more wider perspective. That means that you have greater awareness. Yo u have a panoramic view of life. For this life of yours is only a small section in this vast continuum of existence, in this vast continuum of existence. And yet we are so troubled. We suffer. You are children of bliss. You do not need to suffer! Suff ering is not your true nature. But you superimpose suffering upon the joy that you really are, upon the Divine being that you really are. And that pain and pleasure are but superimpositions. It is like the sun being overcast. The sun still shines in it s own luminosity, but the clouds that are created makes us feel it to be so dark and dull down here. So why be down here? Be up there. You are up there already. Therefore, our foundation is called The International Foundation for Spiritual Unfoldment. R emember the word "unfoldment," and not spiritual development. You are fully developed as you are. It just requires unfolding, where you gain a greater awareness of what life is all about. And once you have the integration within yourself, then being an integrated being, whatever you do you would do better. Because with integration you find a greater awareness. So in every area of your life: in business, in industry, in economics, in study, in the professions, you'd find the quality of life far, far sup erior. And the other thing it produces...although you become far superior, although you are exercising the greater part of yourself, you are exercising the divine part of yourself, so every action of yours is infused with that Divinity. Th en you do not n eed to believe in God, you are the living god. Those times when Krishna and Buddha and Christ when they

7. U S 82 - 21 preached, they said, "Believe in God. Believe in thy Father in Heaven." Today times are changed. Belief can become idle, blind belief. Right. You say there is a fire burning in the room next door. You've been told this, and you believe that there is a fire burning in the room next door. And as you approach the room next door you feel a bit of the heat, then belief becomes faith. But when you ente r the fire and become the fire, then you know what the fire is. So here we have belief, faith, and knowingness. And through meditational and other spiritual practices you have the knowingness. Knowingness, your fullest capacity or that which you are cap able of. And that capacity is full, full and full. So don't be a bloody fool not to use it. Do you see. And this comes through living an integrated life. For that is what we require. That is what we require for greater peace unto thyself. And that ve ry peace that you feel within yourself will radiate to those that are around you. This comes through being in the company of holy people that are forever emanating this fine energy. You cannot analyze it, but something happens inside you. And it comes t hrough meditation: a systematic way whereby all areas of your life becomes improved, as I said before. You know, everything I'm telling you, you might know. Fine. Like Mark Twain, one of your greatest humorists, went to listen to a very well known pastor. So Mark Twain thought, "Let me play a little joke on this pastor." So he tells the pastor that, "Every word you have spoken I know, I've got it down in a book. Every word that you have spoken." The pastor was surprised. He says, "How could you have k nown every word that I spoke about? Or that I spoke now in this sermon?" So Mark Twain says, "I'll send you the book. Will that make you happy?" The pastor says, "Yes." So next day Mark Twain sends him a dictionary. [HE LAUGHS] Yes. People have all kinds of beliefs. You have to go beyond belief. You have to go beyond dogma. You have to go beyond the groove you have made. And when you go beyond those grooves, then only truth can be found. You know, in India, especially in the backwoods villages, w ith the bullock carts and going through the same road all the time grooves are formed. So when the grooves are formed, the bullock cart driver he can fall asleep. And the wheel will be turning in the same grooves all the time, and will take you where he is going. But then what the guru does he can be very sly, he has his own ways of teaching he takes a rock and puts it in the groove. So when the wheel goes against it, it gives the driver a shock and he wakes up. How many of you are awake? You think you are awake. And you think that you think. We are asleep. We need the awakening to the glory of Divinity. We need to be awakened. And unless we do not dive deep within ourselves we will still remain asleep. How real do you think you are? And what is the proof of your reality or existence? Aren't you perhaps dreaming that you are real? And you go through all these sufferings. And when you go beyond them you will know that

8. U S 82 - 21 they were not sufferings, you were dreaming. So through meditation you mak e the suffering into a offering. You act for the sake of action, and not for the reward thereof. And if your action is performed well, the reward will be there. You might have some of the academic staff here in the group. They don't go about doing their w ork at the university thinking every five minutes of the salary check. No, they just carry on working. Andif they do think of the salary check, it would be towards the third week of the month when they start getting a bit broke. So we do our work well, a nd end of the month the salary check is there. And that is how in every area of our life, life should be lived in that way, where we work for the sa ke of work. Right. And when we work for the sake of work, then the irk in work disappears. Only "w" remai ns, and "w" is wonderful. Do you see how it works? It is so simple. I was telling some people the other day, "It is so simple to be happy, but so difficult to be simple." I'll repeat that. It is so simple to be happy, but so difficult to be simple. No w, through meditational practices we learn this simplicity. Everyone teaches us, "You must have humility. You must become humble. You must become childlike to find the joy within." But these remain only words. They are just on the word level, the anal ytical level. Empty words, words, words. Empty words and nothing said. Do you see. So we have to have that experience of integration to find that deep peace within. And when we find that peace within, we spontaneously become humble, we spontaneously bec ome compassionate, we spontaneously become kind, we spontaneously become all giving. For life is made to give and not to receive. And I'm quoting Victor Hugo in his book Les Miserable. Life is made to give and not to take. So when we try to control the m ind and create those qualities, they will be artificial qualities. They will be artificial qualities and not true qualities. Because truth is simple. And why we do not see it is because we compound everything. Like a compounder, a dispenser, what do you call them? Pharmacists. He compounds his medicines by throwing in various different ingredients. [END SIDE ONE] GURURAJ: And that...and that has happened to all of us. To all of us, right. You know, there was this one man he used to go to a cafe every day. You call it cafe? Cafe, huh? Good. And he used to go and buy his can of Coca Cola. And the man behind the counter used to serve it to him. And what this man did, he took out a tin op ener from his pocket and opened the can. And then he drank his Coca Cola. Now, this was happening every day and the shop keeper was becoming that why does this man use a can opener when there is that thingamajig there that opens the can. I'm sure none o f you have drunk Coca Cola, so, but you do know about it, don't you? [LAUGHTER] So three weeks went by and it excited the curiosity of the shop keeper, that having this thing there why

9. U S 82 - 21 does he use a can opener. So he asked the man, "Sir, please excuse me for asking you this question, but why do you use a can opener when that thing is there to open the can?" He says, "That thing there to open the can is for people that do not have can openers." [HE LAUGHS] You have the can opener built in within you! Yo u do not need to find it outside. It is you, you, you, the divine you. And all these petty miseries that you undergo produces in you one thing which is the greatest killer. Heart disease is not the greatest killer. Cancer is not the greatest killer. B ut the sense of guilt that you have produced in you, that is the greatest killer. It kills your mind. It makes you suffer. And what is guilt all about? Guilt comes about because you do not live in the present. You do not live in the here and now. You a re living in the past and remembering what auntie Mary did to you, or uncle John did to you. Or any other happening. Or what the boss said the morning. You are living in the past and recreating it in your mind and suffering. And then what else do you d o? You take the past and project it into the future and become totally oblivious of the present, for the present itself is joy. So meditation gradually takes you to that area of living in the here and now. For the here and now is eternity. Blake has sai d to capture eternity in an hour. He was wrong. I say to capture eternity in just but a moment, for that is eternal and nothing else. Past is gone, future might not be there. So why live in the past and project it in the future and make yourselves mise rable? I talk of love. I talk of joy. I talk of hope. And I talk of being of good cheer. I talk of finding the Kingdom of Heaven within through the processes of meditation. I talk of how to find yourself at one with God. Atonement: at one ment with the Divine. And it is just a matter of realization, realizing it. Seek and thou shall find. Knock and it shall be opened. And what would be opened to you, and will you find? You will find your Self, which is Divine. On the one side we say God is omnipr esent, and on the other hand we look up there into the skies as if some old man with a long beard is sitting on a throne with a dozen or two bookkeepers writing down everything you're doing. Waste of time. Wasted life. Let this life be lived in such a w ay that at your last breath you will say, "Well lived this life, well lived." But so filled with attachments, aren't we? Filled with attachments. Here was this old man of eighty five on his dying bed just about to pop off. Or what do they say in Ameri ca? Kick the bucket. Huh? [LAUGHTER] Something like that. Right. So while he was just about to die, pop off, his wife was there with him. So he calls for his sons. He says, "Where is John?" So his wife says, "John is standing at your right hand si de." "Where's Peter?" "He's standing at your left hand side." Where is Charles?" "He's standing at your feet." The old man got a bit of energy at that time and more or less sat up. He says, "If all of us...if all of you are here, who's minding the st ore?" Here a man is dying, and yet he's worried about his store. Don't we all do that all the time? You see.

10. U S 82 - 21 Oh, my beloveds, I wish God was a thing that I could take out of my pocket and show you. Right. He is not a thing. He is not an object. Divi nity is objective, as well as subjective. And I can make you experience Him. That experience, that which is indefinable, indescribable. Do you see. And that can be done through the process of meditation. And we have many teachers here in the Chicago a rea. And you just need to give them one phone call. Or they could take your names and addresses and get in touch with you. For example, our secretary, Vidya, she's a coordinator, secretary, and she, by profession, is a psychologist, a practicing psychol ogist, and she's going with me on this tour. I've got two and a half month tour around America visiting major cities, doing some television programs, newspapers and the media and what have you. Lecturing at other universities and things. So it's quite a v ast program. So if you are not... If you can't contact her, you can contact Phyllis, Gail, there are lots of other teachers here. So if you...I could go on and on with subjects for a long time, but I'd rather leave it over to you now to ask any question s you like. And it would be my joy to answer them. We've spoken for about an hour. Hm? Okay. [?????] would you guide the hands? VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: No, what happens is this that you filled a form giving certain details. And with the f orm we need two photographs, because it's done in duplicate. When I get that form and when I...Please excuse me while I finish this. Charles comes from England. Where's Linda? She's sitting somewhere. There you are. You've got to catch a plane? Are y ou timing yourself? You have...? You're okay? Fine. We don't want you to miss your plane. Right. Then these photographs are sent to me with the form and I go into meditation on the photograph. And reaching that superconscious level I would know the entirety of your personality: mind, body and spirit. For there are no two people alike on Earth. Everyone is a unique being. You don't have one bottle of medicine that cures all diseases. And if everyone is an individual being, the practices that are g iven are individualized. And going into that state of meditation I would know what kind of prescription to write for you. The whole is program is most properly, set out for you particular needs, which are sent back to the teacher. And the teacher teaches over to you the practices that I have prescribed. That is the way we work it. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE]

11. U S 82 - 21 GURURAJ: Concentration is not meditation. And I think it's a part of the question. Thank you for reminding me. You have contemplation... You have con centration, you have contemplation, and you have meditation. Now, concentration can be developed through certain of our practices. That without concentrating all the energies of your mind are brought together. That is concentration, where all the energi es of your mind are brought together. That is concentration. Contemplation is following one thought to its culmination from A to Z without any interruption in that source. The mind is like a butterfly. Now you are thinking of this and in a moment you w ill be thinking of something else. Next moment you will be thinking of something else. Now, true contemplation is like oil being poured from one vessel into another without break. That is contemplation. Meditation is to go beyond the conscious and the s ubconscious areas of the mind to the superconscious level of yourself. Right. So your thinking, because you develop a wider perspective, a greater awareness, your concentration increases because of your meditations, and your contemplation is also improve d. In concentration and contemplation you hold fast. In meditation you let go. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Effortless. Effortless. This is what the Gita, the Bhagavad Gita, would describe. To be able to find inaction in action and action in inacti on. There lies the secret. Where you are at work all the time, and the work becomes joyous. It becomes play. VOICE: What is the difference between spirituality and religion, and can a religious man be called spiritual? GURURAJ: It all depends. A religious man can be called a spiritual man if he is not tied up in dogma and outer trappings. There is very little difference. A religious man's aim is also to find the spirit within. And the aim of a spiritual man is the sa me. The same, just different terminology. But as long as one does not go beyond dogma and the trappings, then you still remain in the groove. In other words, you still remain in bondage when you really want freedom. And freedom is self realization. Fre edom is God realization. VOICE: What do you mean by ultimate reality?

12. U S 82 - 21 GURURAJ: Mm, that's a [INAUDIBLE]. Ultimate reality is when you reach the Absolute. Where you can find no difference between the Absolute and the relative. That is ultimate realit y. Until then, until then it is I and thou. And when that concept disappears then you experience ultimate reality. While you're thinking up I'll tell you another little story joke. There's a priest and a pastor and their churches were [qui te?] near each other and they did not get on very well, because one of them had more people in the congregation, while the other had less, and like that. And like that it used to go on, and they never got on well. So one day they decided, let us get together on this t hing. And they decided that, "Look," the priest says, and the pastor says too that, "Look, we are doing the same work, we are doing God's work, and we shouldn't be at loggerheads with each other." Good. So after a bit of talking they agreed that they mu st really try and work together. We are after the same ideal. So the pastor says, "You work in your way, I don't mind. And I will work in His way." [LAUGHTER] Come on, any questions? VOICE: Is it true that you left home at the age of 3 to [inaudible] ? GURURAJ: I left at the age of about four. And then I went around from temple to temple seeking God. And what I saw in those temples were just stone idols that would not speak to me or answer me. But I did have a nice time though eating up all the fruits that were offered to the gods. And then when I finished what you might call high school before going to university that was about fourteen. Then I did that. And went to university and studied. And during my studies I managed to go on vacation, h ome or to the homes of friends. And I used to go to the guru which I met and spend the entire vacation with them. Went to gurus and gurus and ashrams and ashrams and temples and wherever I could seeking for truth, seeking for reality. And that reality w as within myself. It's like a musk deer. This musk deer got the fragrance of the musk and he was running around here, there, and everywhere trying to find this musk. And in total exhaustion when he lay down, he found that the musk was right in his own na vel. That's where musk comes from, the musk deer's navel. That's what I found. What I'm doing now, traveling around the world, is sharing my joy. For is life not a sharing? There's no difference between... There's no I and thou left anymore. You are me and I am you. VOICE: I don't know, though, if I can really appreciate that because I feel real sensitive to my situation living in the Uni ted States and this bourgeois existence I might live. In opposition to the Third World that is such a large part of the world community.

13. U S 82 - 21 GURURAJ: Um hm. Nevertheless, you said a moment ago that I cannot appreciate some of these things. What is the factor that appreciates or does not appreciate? Your mind. You do not need to go into the Himalayas as I did livin g in caves. No. You find that peace and understanding, that goes beyond understanding, you find Divinity here and here and here. If you're on campus you find it here, at home, here. And sometimes you can find it here. [INAUDIBLE]. There's nowhere to g o. No pilgrimage required. [INAUDIBLE]. You don't need to go to Jerusalem, or the Muslim has to go to Mecca. [SOUND BECOMES VERY LOW AND THE REST IN INAUDIBLE]. No, no, you've got it all wrong, my love. Peace is never placid. Who told you that? Peace is active. Joy is never placid. It is active. So you have active peace. Or else you become a vegetable. We want people like you. Workers. Work for the benefit of mankind. And yet, dwell in the stillness. You know that poem by Rudyard Kipling, "I f?" That the whole world I don't know the exact words but the gist, let the whole world go crazy around you and you preserve that stillness within you. Then you're a man, my son. Something like that. So to be immersed in total activity. You are even now being active while you are sitting. There are billions of cells in your body that are working in a particular pattern [inaudible]. You are totally active, your heart is beating there all the time. All these things constitute activity. Every thing is active [inaudible]. **** END ****

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