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United States 82-28

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2. U S 82 - 28 So, to know who you really are, the process is to unpattern the mind. How do we do this? How do we unpattern the mind? How do we get out of the rut? How do we get ou t of these grooves in which we are involved? There lies the answer: the how, not the why. How do we get rid of the miseries that are within us and the miseries of the world. There are so many do gooders in this world that would do things of various chari ties, organize various things. But what is the motivation? Is the motivation that for the promotion of their own personal ego to feel that "I did this and I did that, and "I am this and I am that?" Who are you? Have you answered that question? Have yo u asked that question? Have you found the answer to that question, "Who am I?" I am nothing, and yet paradoxically so I am everything. For within your mind the memory of the entire existence since the Big Bang within your mind exists everything. It is for you to find the method to reach that storehouse of infinite wisdom. I do not talk of knowledge, for knowledge is acquired. One of my students in one of the countries where I go around speaking and I tour the world about eight, nine months of the year , talking, talking, teaching, teaching all the time one of the students told me that, "Gururaj, I am nothing else but a donkey with a load of books on my back." Is that what we want? That is acquired knowledge. What we want is wisdom. Wisdom is somethi ng that goes far beyond knowledge. It is like food you eat, it gets digested. That becomes knowledge. But when that becomes assimilated in every cell of your being, of your body, millions of cells in your body creating and recreating in dissolution and creation and preservation. And when it becomes assimilated in that form, then you have wisdom. So, where do we start? If we want to reach New York we do not start from Chicago, we start from Cincinnati. Cincinnati, sin... I don't know the English langu age very well. Neither do I know the derivation of words. We start from where we are. And how do we know where to start from? Where do I start from to find that peace and tranquility within myself? How do I start to know who I am? How do I know where to start to find that which I really am? Hm? Western society, as well as the Eastern societies, so much now has progressed so far in technological development. Within that little head of ours, that two and a half or three pound organ which we call the brain, contains twelve billion cells and we are using only one millionth of those twelve billion cells. So what is the relationship between your brain and your mind? Now, I'm taking this very gradually to the pivotal point of how one can find the peace, joy, and happiness which everyone desires, consciously or unconsciously. If you did not desire that, then you would not have any problems. So, it means that your mind is filled with conflicts. And where do these conflicts come? Not from the exterior e nvironment, but the conflict stems from within yourself and within the patterns your have created within your mind. Now, all patterns are nothing else but forms of energy. And what is energy? Energy is nothing else but vibration. First was the word and the word was with God, and the word is God. So, the entirety of the universe is nothing but vibration existing in a subtle form or a grosser form. When vibrations become more condensed, they become gross. And when

3. U S 82 - 28 they reach the finer level, then they b ecome more subtle. We could use the analogy of water vapor. Water vapor could hardly be seen, yet the same vapor could be condensed in water which is grosser. And the same water could be frozen into a block of ice. (I think you all need that now at the moment.) So, vapor, water, and ice, although they seem so different to us, contains the same rudimentary factor, H2O. That is not altered. You have altered, but the divine essence within yourself is unalterable, unchangeable, and forever stable. So, whe re do you go to? You proceed from unstability to stability, and that is your divine right. From unstability to stability. [SPEAKS IN SANSKRIT], from that untruth of your unstability to the truth of the stability that is within you. Now, what is the meth od? We can read scriptures and books and books and books, and how does that help us? We only acquire knowledge, but not the wisdom to recognize the stability. Not to become the stable selves that we really are. We act upon the surface level of ourselve s, and totally ignoring that which is really us. And that is what I want you to realize: to realize that you are self realized beings. From the fullness of Divinity can onl y come fullness. The suffering of man today is because of fragmentation. And then they start praying for peace and for mercy. It is bargaining with God: oh, Lord, give me this and give me that. Who are you to ask that of the Lord or of Divinity? Who are you to demand? You have the right. Deserve and the demands are automatically met. So, the question would be how do you become deserving of the peace and mercy, of the divinity that is around us all the time? It reminds me of a story. his little village pastor was visited one day by a very well known theological personality. And this person, passing that little town, normally attended his Sunday morning church. So, passing this town he went into this little church and he said, he sat down and he listened to the pastor or the minister. And after the sermon was over and the pastor recognizing there was such a grea t personage in our midst, he went up to this person, this great man, and said, "Did you like my sermon, sir?" So this great man replied, "Oh, it was like peace and mercy." This little pastor was very flattered. He says, "Oh, you pay me such a great c ompliment. Could you explain me?" So, he explained that, "Your sermon was like peace that passeth all my understanding. And your sermon was like mercy. I thought it will never end, as God's mercy never ends." [LAUGHTER] Do you see. So, now what sta nds in the path of you and the divine? Your mind. That's all. God plus man...sorry. God plus mind makes man. Man minus mind makes God. God plus mind makes man. Man minus mind makes God. So, your stumbling block is the mind, your patterned mind. An d yet this very mind you have is also part of that manifestation. But how, how to use the mind? There lies the secret to become one with Divinity, where you could really say, "I and my Father are one." This was not only limited to the little body of our Jesus. What was meant there was all our little bodies that are part and parcel of this vast consciousness represented in the embodied form of Krishna, Christ, or Buddha.

4. U S 82 - 28 Whatever you believe in, I don't mind. If you are a Christian I want to become a be tter Christian. If you're a Hindu, become a better Hindu. If you're a Buddhist, become a better Buddhist. But more than that all, become a better human. A better human, freed from the bondage of your lusts and your greeds and your avarice and covetousn ess. Now, how do we do that? These are just empty words. There is only one way. And the way is to dwell deeper into yourself, your real essential self. To delve deep into the Kingdom of Heaven that is within you, and all else will be added unto thee. O ur scriptures say this. All scriptures of the world say this. Unfortunately, they do not tell us how. An injunction is made, "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Beautiful. The most profound statement ever made in the world. How? And why should I love my n eighbor as myself? Why? How? If you cannot love yourself, how can you love your neighbor? So, your mind, for the purpose of discussion and clarification, we could roughly divide it into three sections. You have the conscious mind, you have the subcons cious mind, and you have what I call the superconscious mind. Now, all these three facets of your mind are within the realms of relativity. Your conscious mind is governed mostly by analysis, rationalizations, weighing pros and cons. That is the left hem isphere of your brain. The right hemisphere of your brain constitutes more of the intuitive ability that you have. And all of you have experienced this, that you say, "Auntie Mary is going to visit me today," just a flash of thought, and here a few minut es later, or an hour later, a knock on the door and Auntie Mary is there. You see. This is an unconscious way of allowing the subconscious to penetrate the conscious level of thinking. But this is a glimpse. This should be your day to day reality. Good. Now, the conscious mind, to repeat again, is the area where you analyze and rationalize and do the weighing process intellectuality. Fine. But when through meditation and spiritual practices, where you take this little organ, two and a hal f pounds in weight, and allow the left hemisphere to work in coordination with the right hemisphere of your brain, which is your intuitive faculty, then you could draw upon areas unknown to you. You do not even know the known, and yet you ask a question of the unknow n. What do you know of the known? And how conscious are you of the known? How conscious are you of your breathing process that's going on in you all the time? How conscious are you of the billions of cells that work in such precision in your body? How conscious are you of your heartbeat that's beating there all the time? Waking, sleeping, dreaming, it is still beating on. How conscious are you of that? And you ask the question that what you should know and then you ask the question of that which i s unknown. And yet the reply is this, that the unknown can be known now and not tomorrow and not in the hereafter. I was telling someone the other day that all our theologies are the biggest financial institutions in the world, and so are o ur insurance co mpanies. They promise you something after death both. [LAUGHTER] They promise you something after you are dead that you shall go to Heaven. Do this, do this, do that and you go to Heaven. The insurance company tells you after you are dead there's a lump sum of money there for you keep on paying your premiums. [LAUGHTER]

5. U S 82 - 28 I want to tell you here and now that that Divinity could be realized in your lifetime. Here and now, for you are already divine. What I want to show you is how to unveil the v eils that cover the real you. Now, what is the process? It is so simple, which anyone can do. You don't need a fine intellect. For if that was necessary, then every professor of philosophy and thousands, and hundreds of thousands of them throughout the world that have studied every form of philosophy would be a self realized man. And I have found in academic circles that I lecture to, I find them more confused with all their knowledge than the poor little simple street sweeper that has found the answe r in total honesty, in that childlikeness of his very presence. I remember so well throughout my travels in India through the Himalayas, visiting various monasteries and ashrams and various gurus from who I gained here there a little, a little here, a litt le there, until I met my guru. And then on these travels I met a simple potter. And in the East a potter is supposed to be someone of low caste. Today, here, we take pottery as an art, but there they are of such a low class. In every village you have a potter and there food is cooked I'm talking of those days in the backwood villages where food is cooked in those clay pots and he makes those pots and sells them for a few cents each to make his living. Passing there I saw this man. I was thirsty and I asked for water. I had some water and I sat down. His very presence, his very radiance that he radiated there filled my heart and soul and the entire area. Here was a realized man, but a simple potter without any education. So, what has he really don e? He left his mind one side, and he was merged in his soul. So, you see, it does not require intelligence or intellect to know your real self. So, therefore there is no hope lost for anyone, be he a university professor, a housewife, or the street sweep er. But there is a way. There is the way. And that way is the life, that way is the truth, to find yourself. Do our injunctions not say, "Man know thyself?" Has it ever been emphasized that man know God? No. Man know thyself. For by knowing thyself , the Lord is automatically known. Now, the process we use, the spiritual practices we use are very simple. Whereby we can go through the conscious level of the mind, the analytical mind. We go beyond or through the patternings of the subconscious mind, which in turn influences the conscious mind, which in turn influences every action of our bodies comprised of the senses of hearing, tasting, seeing, smelling, etc. Hm? So, then we reach from the conscious level using it as an instrument we go through the subconscious level of the mind and reach the highest level of ourselves, the highest level of relativity which I term the superconscious level of the mind. And by tapping and reaching and touching that superconscious level which is stillness be stil l and know that I am God there lies the stillness within yourself in the superconscious level of yourself. There lies the stillness.

6. U S 82 - 28 And there is a scientific systematic method whereby that vast reservoir of the superconscious level could be tapped. A nd once you tap that you do not come back empty handed. If you spend half an hour in a perfume factory, you will come out smelling of perfume. So, by tapping that universal source it infuses your subconscious mind, it overrides all the patternings of you r mind. It overrides the analytical level of your mind, and you are in touch with your higher self, the superconscious level. And once you are in touch with that superconscious level of your mind, then you do not believe in God, you don't have faith in Go d, but you know the living god. That's what we need today in this world, not to believe. There were times five thousand, two thousand years ago when the ordinary peasantry of the land were given injunctions, "Pray to thy Father in Heaven," which was good f or them. You teach according to the times. You teach according to the evolutionary status of man's mind. But in today's technologically, highly advanced society you don't tell people to believe, you tell people to experience. And that is what spiritual practices do for you. You experience the reality, and then all your beliefs can come. For all religions are but one. It is just the outer dogmas and frills and fancies that separate them, yet the purpose of all is to reach the inner core, the inner light that is forever there. Hm? So, through spiritual practices, gradually, you proceed through the conscious level, through the layers of the subconscious mind, to the superconscious level of your mind; which is the area of the universal mind. So, as I said before, all the happenings in the entire existence since the Big Bang, since this universe came into being, since this present cycle of evolution, which would have its beginning, duration and termination, then all being sucked into the Black Hole, into the Black Hole but to come out the other side in a new universe, a new creation. So, that higher level of your superconscious mind is connected to every atom throughout the universe. And tapping that vast reservoir you infuse it, you override the patterning s that you already have, and then you go beyond analysis because knowingness is not analytical. You know, you just know. I am that I am. They will tell you, all the preachers, be like Krishna, be like Buddha, be like Christ. But I tell you, "Be yoursel f." I hope I'm not belaboring the point. Reminds me of a story. There was this church, a beautiful one like this, and they were laying a carpet in the pulpit area. So, the man that laid th e carpet he left a few of the thumbtacks lying around. (Thumbtac ks, is that the word? You know, with the...tacks. Tacks. Tacks.) So, when the minister came there he called this man. He said, "Look, these are lying around here and I might step on one." So, this handyman replied, "Sir, this is one point you will not linger on." [LAUGHTER] Oh, my beloveds, children of joy, the product of joy, you are nothing but joy. You are going through the law of opposites. You are enmeshed between the opposites of pain and pleasure, like on a seesaw. When you feel pleasure be sure to know there is pain on the other end, for pain and pleasure are two ends of the same stick. You have to reach the center. And that center is beyond the pain and pleasure. That center is joy, bliss, the Atman, the Brahman, the God, whatever

7. U S 82 - 28 label you wish to put on it. That's the center man has to reach, and you cannot reach that center with the conscious level of your mind. You cannot reach it with the subconscious level of your mind. But you can reach it by reaching the superconscious level of your mind. So easily, so simply, that within a few weeks of practice, you will find yourself a different person. And I've known this. Throughout the world I have centers. We operate under the umbrella of the International Foundation for Spiritual Unfol dment. Remember the word "unfoldment," not development. You are spiritually developed as you are. You require just unfolding the portals of your heart, the core of your personality where that Divinity resides. And you can be so much in touch with it eve ry moment of the day! And you can be the living god, for you are the living god! It's just for you to realize it! And all your problems and troubles vanish. They disappear. If there's darkness in this room, why start analyzing the darkness, what cause s the darkness? Switch on the light, darkness disappears. (Are you writing there, my love? Here's something else you can write down.) It is so simple write! it is so simple to be happy. It is so simple to b e happy, but so difficult to be simple. [LAU GHTER] It is so simple to be he happy, but so difficult to be simple because you have done away with that childlikeness that you were born with. You have become complex personalities, and added complexities upon complexities. And filling the coffers of headshrinkers and so called physicians. So, reach the inner self. It is such a simple process. We have some wonderful people here in Cincinnati. Dr. Bates and his beautiful wife Mary Kay that have been especially trained by me, as others throughout the U nited States, to teach this to you. So simple. The proof of the pudding lies in the eating. Good. Think about that. See if I can't find a joke for you. Mm, let's see. Yes, there was this priest and this pastor. And they had churches quite near each other. So, some had large congregations sometimes, and some little ones and they used to be at loggerheads. So one day they decided, "Oh, let's get together. You know, we're doing the same kind of work, the work of the Lord, why must we squabble?" So, they came to an arrangement. And so says the one that, "We shall not fight. We're doing the same work. So, I'll do my work in my way." So, the pastor replies, "You do your work in your way, and I shall do my work in His way." [END SIDE ONE] GURURAJ: You see. Why enter into complexities when life is so simple? These little problems which assume such a great proportion to you, what is it caused by? Auntie Matilda she was ill and you went to look after her for a week or two. Very good. She said, "Thank you." And then some time goes by, some times go by and you have a little quarrel with

8. U S 82 - 28 Auntie Matilda. And then what is your reaction? "Oh, the Double B, I did this for you and that for you and that for you, and is this the way you show appr eciation?" Is that now service? Is that a service of love? You were only inflating your own personal ego. Because you are so attached to that ego you are trying to preserve your individuality in the way, and because of the way your mind is patterned. I do not say lose your individuality. Preserve that individuality. But there is one thing that can be done with the ego self that is filled with patternings, for what is the ego after all? What is the constituents of your mind? Nothing else but thought f ormations. The entire universe consists of nothing else but thought formations. A poet writes a poem or a musician composes a beautiful symphony, what is he doing? He is not creating it, but he is just attuning his mind, taking it to deeper levels of hi mself, where he attunes himself to thoughts that have been thought thousands and thousands of years ago. And he draws upon those thoughts, and interprets it through the channels of his subconscious and conscious mind at its particular development. So that 's all that a poet or an artist or a musician does. So if these things can be proven so readily on the relative level of life, why not so much more in that infiniteness that you are, where you can walk the path to joy, to happiness, to Divinity. For wha t is your aim? What is your path? And where do you start from? And when you reach the superconscious level of yourself, you will realize that the path and the end was but just the same. You are just passing by through the small little spectrum of this existence of yours three score years and ten, they say. Just a small, little fragment in this vast continuum that is life. So, through meditation and individually prescribed practices...did you speak about this? No. In our system we don't have, like ma ny other systems that are existing here, one bottle of medicine for all diseases. The system we use is this, that the teacher teaches you here, you could get their phone numbers, Herb Bates Dr. Bates and Mary Kay, they teach you the preparatory technique to prepare yourself. You fill in a form and two little photos of yourselves, passport size, small ones, are required, and they get sent to me in South Africa. Or wherever I am because I am constantly in touch most of the time. And on those photographs I go into deep meditation. And going into that deep meditation, I reach the core of your personality where I could perceive the imbalances that are existing in you. If anybody here can tell me that he is one hundred percent sane, he is a liar. Ninety nin e point nine, nine, nine percent of all of us are not totally sane; for if you are totally sane you will be a totally integrated person and none of us are. So, going into this deep meditation I perceive the core of your personality. I perceive your emoti onal levels, your evolutionary state, the various patternings of your mind; and I devise personally, this is done by no one else but me, I devise personally the spiritual practices you have to do. It's not a generalized thing. There are certain general p ractices for certain things, yes. But the major practices are personally prescribed, and our teachers are taught how to teach them to you. You see.

9. U S 82 - 28 Now, by doing the spiritual practices what happens is this, that you function in totality. Ninety nine poi nt nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, ad infinitum, of people live through this life fragmentedly. One thought is pulling this way, the other that way , the pulling...the body is pulling this way, this is pulling that way, and that is pulling that way. So, we bring all those pieces together by spiritual practices and make you an integrated person, a person that can function in totality. And when you can function in totality whatever act your perform, whatever you do, would have a higher value. If you are a un iversity professor or a street sweeper or a plumber or a carpenter or a shoemaker or a salesclerk, whatever you are you'd be doing it to your ultimate and total capacity. And then, and then the day when you throw down this physical little frame of flesh a nd blood, chemically it's worth one dollar ten cents, with inflation, of course, it might be worth one dollar forty five. And then at that moment you will say to yourself, "Well lived this life, well lived." For what we are trying to do is to get away fr om the frictions of life. The entire universe is based upon friction. There is expansion and contraction all the time. (Tell me when I have to stop.) There is expansion and contraction all the time. The entire world, the entire universe is forever in motion, and without motion this universe cannot exist. But to find that steadiness in the motion, there lies the secret. You know what a top is. Children they wind the top and they throw it and it spins. A top? What do you call it in America? A top? Now, when that top spins at a very high speed, it seems to be standing still and yet has the highest motion. So, all actions can be performed throughout your life based upon the stability of that stillness, by doing meditation and spiritual practices whe re nothing could hurt you. Where you can be in the world and yet not of the world. That is the secret of joy. Nothing harms you, nothing hurts you, because you have risen above the law of opposites. And there is the level of the superconscious mind whe re you are still. Still. Find the peace that passeth all understanding. Peace be unto you all. Your joy is my joy. Your suffering is my suffering. Have I...? VIDYA: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Have I spoken for about an hour and a half or something, huh? VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Ah, good. Fine. Now, I believe they told me we have a break for tea. I'll be around there, wherever tea is served. Whoever wants to have a chat with me are most welcome. And whoever of you have any problems whatsoever,

10. U S 82 - 28 d o make an appointment with our secretary and coordinator. She, by the way, is a professional psychologist. And she's our secretary and coordinator. Make appointment with her. And I'll be here Saturday and Sunday, and of course, we've got programs in be tween. But I could always fit people in for any form of consultation, any form of counseling or healing. So, be in touch with them. [TAPE BECOMES INAUDIBLE AT THIS POINT, THEN CONTINUES.] And then after that, after that we have a session which we call r apid fire, so you can ask any question you like, whatever, which I will go into, you know, briefly. Give you a general idea of things and some understanding. Thank you. [TAPE ENDS, THEN A GARBLED PIECE. TAPE CONTINUES AFTER TEA BREAK.] GURURAJ: The question is what grace is and how we can draw that unto ourselves. Now, grace is an inexplicable thing which can only be explained by analogy. Take these flowers, for example, they grow beautifully. But what is there that supplies it the exact amount of sunlight; what is there that supplies it with the exact amount of water; what is there that supplies it the exact amount of the minerals it requires for it to grow into a plant, because too much fertilization or too much water or too much sunshine would k ill the plant. So, what is that factor which combines itself in making this flower grow so beautiful. That is grace. Now, Herb, would you pull up a chair here so you could...? How can we draw that to us? There is only one way grace can be drawn to us is through spiritual practices, where we can quieten the mind to such an extent, we can unblock the nose of all the mucus and smell the fragrance of the flowers. So, when we can bring ourselves, through spiritual practices, to that state, then grace automat ically flows. You cannot demand grace. You can only become deserving of it. That's grace. Grace is a universal force. Grace can be equated with the word we call God. For God is grace, grace is love, love is God, God is grace, grace is love, love is G od, God is grace. You see. Next question. While you are thinking it reminds me of a another little story. There's an old dilapidated church, not a beautiful one like this, and the ceiling was crumbling and the walls were crumbling down, and the poor mini ster made an appeal for funds to repair the church. So, there was one very wealthy man in the congregation there, and everyone's eyes turned towards him. So, he started stammering "f f f five dollars." But at that very moment a piece of the ceiling fell on his head. And from five he said, "Five hundred dollars from me." So, here the poor priest standing in the corner prayed, "Lord, strike him once more." [LAUGHTER] Next question.

11. U S 82 - 28 VOICE: Do you study the traditional writings which are in the Indian philosophy, like the Bhagavad Gita, Vedas, and so on? Or is that basically the [INAUDIBLE]? GURURAJ: Uh huh. I have studied all the religions of the world: Christianity, Islam, Bud dhism, Zen, Judaism, Hinduism, Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, the Vedas; and then having experienced the reality of God, I burnt all the books, because the books gave me nothing. They confused me more and more and more. Mind you, for the starter these li ttle gymnastic exercises are good. And I do recommend you to study them, because it will attune you to higher things. But please do remember, they cannot lead you to God, because God or Divinity could never be analyzed, but it can be experienced. So, I' ve burnt all the books a long time ago. And I do a bit of reading now. That's just to see what other people say and how they put it down. Meanwhile, there is no new knowledge that you can really gain after you have gained the knowledge of Divinity. V OICE: Did you gain this knowledge from your teacher before you, or did you do it on your own? GURURAJ: Under the direction of my teacher. I've said this over and over again through thousands of lectures throughout the world, that the external guru is t here to awaken the internal guru within you. Once the internal guru is awakened within you, you can discard the external guru. When a child goes to school, the teacher has to teach the child the ABC and Z and word formation. And after it can learn to rea d, it can...the child will read on its own without the help of the teacher. So, teachers, spiritual masters, people on the spiritual path, people that want to find that peace and tranquility and that Divinity within themselves, need some guidance in the b eginning. But once they're on the path they find it all themselves. I do not shine the light upon you, I shine the light upon the path. You walk with your own feet. But when you stumble I would be there. While you're climbing the steps, I will be there as a railing that you can hold onto. But you got to climb the steps yourself, that is what I teach you. The surrender to a guru and...it's all rubbish. Surrender is a culmination an d not the start: where you surrender yourself to everything existent, b ecause in the end when you reach the goal you find you and your guru and everything else to be all within yourself, and you are at one ment an atonement with all that exists. Next question. While you're thinking of something, there was this church pastor and he confronted a member of his congregation, and he said, "Look, my dear good man, you swear too much. And you must stop doing this. You must stop swearing like this."

12. U S 82 - 28 So, this man says, "Father, you pray too much. And you know as well as I do that I swear too much, you pray too much, and both of us mean nothing by it." VOICE: Barbara. BARBARA: Does it matter what kind of work you do in the world? And if it does how do you decide what's right for you? VOICE: Does it matter what work you do in the world? And if it does matter, how do you decide what work is right for you? GURURAJ: Good. How do you decide what work is right for you? Would you be a stenographer? Or a secretary? Or a card puncher? Or a computer operator? These mean nothing at all. Any kind of work you do which provides you with an honest living is worthwhile work. But if you are spiritually inclined and on the spiritual path, and you feel that inner compulsion to be a helping hand to others, then that is the supreme work o f all. The rest is a means of livelihood. And you can make a living doing anything. And I believe in this country a street sweeper earns more than a university professor. So, what does it matter, really, what work you do? It's not important. As long as you feel a certain amount of happiness within you by doing that work. But let me tell you that ninety nine percent of the people after a while they do not like their jobs. No one is really and totally happy in their jobs, because they are not totally i ntegrated. Now, through spiritual practices when you become an integrated person, whatever you do will give you the same amount of joy, be you a gardener, or a bricklayer, or a stenographer. See. Work for the sake of work, and not for its reward. That i s secret of joy in work. Because if your work is done properly the rewards are there, will be there all the time. You see. No labor is lost. But the labor of love has i ts reward in divine love. VOICE: How important is it to meditate at the same time and in the same place? [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: It is not important at all to meditate at the same time, and neither is it important to meditate in the same place. I was telling someone in the lobby while we were having tea, "It is not the half an hour in the morning or the half an hour in the evening that is important. What I want to see is how the twenty three hours in between has improved the quality of your life; that is important.

13. U S 82 - 28 One person came to me once, he says, "Gururaj, you know I have been m editating for about a year and I don't feel any difference, you know, in my meditation." So then I started talking. I told my secretary, "Let's have some tea." It was teatime. "Let's have some tea." And I was chatting. Then we started talking about t hings about himself. I said, "How about your work?" He says, "You know, I used to get so angry with those" he was a general sales manager of a big company "I used to get so angry with my salesmen when the proper type of results were not produced. I used to get angry with my directors. But now I don't seem to get angry with my salesmen or directors anymore. When the salesmen on my team don't bring in proper results, I sit down, have a nice quiet chat with them, show them how they could improve their sales, and the sales improve. I have a chat with my directors, you know, how certain things could be managed in my sales program and they agree with me and they say it's very well managed." Then he started talking about his home life. He said, "When I used to reach home my youngsters they put on their loud blaring...what do you call this disco, something? Jazz, rock? VOICE: Rock and roll. GURURAJ: Rock and roll. They used to put it on and I used to get so annoyed. You know. But now they still do it but I just don't seem to hear it. I take no notice of it anymore. It doesn't affect me." I said, "What about the relationship wi th your w ife?" He says, "Oh, sometimes we still have our little squabble or quarrel, but then afterwards I say, `I'm so sorry, lovey.' And she says, `No, I am sorry.' And we embrace. We kiss, we make up, this, that." I said, "Oh, since when did this start happen ing?" "Oh, about a year, now." "Has meditation not helped you?" It's not the half an hour in the morning or the half an hour in the evening, it is the quality, improved quality, and joyousn ess in the other twenty three hours of the day, Your waking state, and even during your sleep, where you find a most restful, beautiful sleep. And you feel so refreshed and relaxed to tackle the world the next morning. [INAUDIBLE] You see. VOICE: Could you briefly discuss the relationship between meditation and psyc hotherapy? Does meditation do what psychotherapy could do? Or do they work together [??????]? GURURAJ: Are you a psychologist? VOICE: Yeah.

14. U S 82 - 28 GURURAJ: I'd like to challenge you on that subject on any public platform. [HE LAUGHS] Yes. Psychothera py...Freudian? VOICE: Right. GURURAJ: Right. Psychotherapy, of course, you know, goes into analysis, mostly, and other various forms. As a matter of fact my secretary is a qualified psychologist. She practices as a psychologist. And, of course, she adds on meditation to her psychological work. So, psychotherapy as a whole has its certain value, for you are working with a mind that is not properly balanced, and you could help the person to see things in its proper perspective. So it has its value. But there are some disadvantages which I've seen psychologists working. And I've been invited to many of their conferences, like the Neuro... (What was that, something?) International Neuro Psychiatric Symposium, something like that, and all that. Right . I've attended many, many of them. Now, psychotherapy has its particular value, but that's not the total answer. Because what psychology knows today is this, that they have not even dipped their little big toe in this vast area of the mind. They are ju st about starting off. Fine. So, although its having its value, one of the greatest faults that I find is this, that they try and find the causes of thing s. Now, meditation is a word so misaligned...misunderstood in this country, because of all those mu ltimillionaire, money making gurus that you've had here. And I'm a very, very poor man. As a matter of fact, the wife was telling me on the phone she hasn't got curtains, so she's using some old sheets to pin up on the windows. Okay. So, we're not inter ested on that part of things. So, these gurus come here and exploit our people, which is very, very wrong. Which is very wrong. One guru I know particularly has a list of sixteen mantras which you can find in any tantric literature and dishes out on age basis: "Ah, there's your mantra." Three hundred dollars, cash on the spot. You see. This is all wrong. This is all wrong, and it has been going on for the past twenty years in America. And it saddens me, pains me, how people have been mislead. Now, as far as psychotherapy is concerned to dig up all the happenings, to dig up all the problems of a person's life, might sometimes bring them to a better understanding of the problem. That is the way psychotherapy works, from the outside in. Meditation and spiritual practices work from the inside out, where you draw upon those deep spiritual energies within and bring that light forward into the subconscious and conscious areas, so that if there is darkness, we switch on the light and the darkness disappears. Yet the darkness is not destroyed. The darkness is there all the time, in spite of the light. But you bathe in the glory of the light.

1. U S 82 - 28 CINCINNATI PUBLIC TALK GURURAJ: ...miseries that we go through life. Is meditation a form of transcending all these problems, that's the gist of the question? Good. Now, you are as you are totally divine. The suffering and the misery that you undergo through is but a superimposition upon the Divinity that you are. You are not a product of creation, but you are a manifestation of that which is divine. The flower does not cr eate fragrance. The sun does not create heat. It is the very nature of the Manifestor to bring about this manifestation. What are you trying to do? What you are trying to do is just one thing: The eternal quest of man to take himself away from the miser ies and sufferings, and to experience joy and happiness. And this joy and happiness is your birthright. You are nothing but a product of joy. If you regard Divinity to be omnipresent, then that Divinity, which is joy, exists within each and every cell o f your body. Now, what is there that stops you from experiencing this, that is the question? You are all children of God. You are all divine. You come from the same substance. There is no differentiation between you and these flowers or an ant crawlin g on the floor, for the essence forever will remain the same. So, through the evolution of what you regard as time, which is part and parcel of the question, that is just a conception of your mind. For where is time? What defines time? What is space? Wh at defines space? For those, too, become inseparable. I travel from Chicago to Cincinnati. So, it takes me so many hours flying time, and because of the time I determine the space in miles. So, man's mind measures things in a very linear fashion. He g oes from a,b,c to z. But is that the real process? Have you ever tried thinking not from the horizontal sphere, but the vertical sphere that constitutes this cross I saw in thi s church; where the relativeness of life meets with the absoluteness of life in the center, and that center is within you. That separation is created by you within your mind, within your thoughts, because through various experiences you have gone through in this life since childhood or perhaps in previous lives. Whatever you belie ve in does not matter. But one thing, the principle we arrive at is this, that you are working within patterns of your mind. You mind is patterned. And therefore , because of the patterning, everyone's responses to the same incident or situation or envir onment will be totally different. You witness an accident, five of you, and each one will have a totally different interpretation of it. Why? It's the same accident. Yet, you are looking at the accident from different angles, and therefore interpreting it in different ways because those very angles represent the patterning of your mind.

15. U S 82 - 28 Now, this...it's a subject I could write about ten volumes on. It has to do with samskaras and how the background, e ven going back into previous lives, how they form these various patternings. And if you have to relive all these previous lifetimes, if you believe in that, it's going to take you millions of lifetimes to undo the doings that you have done. So, w hen ther e is darkness switch on the bloomin' light. [SOUND FADES OUT AND DOES NOT RETURN] **** END ****

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