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1. U S 82 - 35 LUNCH WASHINGTON, DC GURURAJ: ...your mind. Just picture yourself to be one, as the flower and the fragrance and that is where our cross comes in. When horizontal value of relative living is joined together to the vertical value of the Absolute and that is... [INTERRUPTS] t he problem. VOICE: [INTERRUPTING] ....earlier that we don't want to die. I don't want to die. I have an innate concern of the moment that I have no intention of dying tomorrow. I don't want to die. I don't want to discard too easily this physical bo dy... GURURAJ: Yes, but [Father?] let me tell you one thing, I speak of life, not of death, because there is no death. VOICE: We do, too. We speak of life. GURURAJ: We speak of life. Why think of dying? You think of dying for one reason only becau se you are too attached to your body. VOICE: Very much so. VOICE: I love my body. GURURAJ: You are too attached to your body. You are too attached. [LAUGHTER] You are too attached to your personal possessions or whatever they are. Right. So now, from attachment we don't find detachment. I was speaking about this [?????]. From attachment we don't go to detachment. Detachment means escaping. But from attachment we proceed to non attachment, where you are in the world but not of the world. VOICE : I dig that. SECOND VOICE: But that's hard to do with your own body. [LAUGHTER] I have no with someone else's. I don't know why you're attached to your body, you're dying. It's no problem. Relax and enjoy it. Um, you know, if I get a wart... [LAUG HTER]

2. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: You know, there have been a few books that have been written. One is called Life After Life After Death, something like that. VOICE: Yes. GURURAJ: Some doctors... VOICE: We were just talking about this. GURURAJ: Yeah. Some doctors made some researches and they are so totally wrong. VOICE: Totally wrong? [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Totally wrong. VOICE: Oh, why? SECOND VOICE: I'm fascinated. Tell me about it. GURURAJ: Totally wrong. They say...right . They say people that approach death have found a light coming to them to fetch them other thing. Which is a misconception of the mind of the person that is on the verge of death. What actually happens is this...and I die every moment of the day! At w ill! And become alive again. VOICE: Yes. [TALK AMONG CHELAS] GURURAJ: Now, what actually happens is this... Pardon? VOICE: Every morning when I wake up, when I go to bed at night, I die.

3. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: Look, how many times a day does your heart beat? Hum? Twenty four thousand times a day? Right. And between each beat there is a pause and that's death. VOICE: I had two drinks a day so I could keep mine beating. [LAUGHTER] THIRD PERSON: Amen. Amen. Fill 'er up with oil, please. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Right. Now, what actually there happens is this, which these doctors have missed on, is that there's no light to come and fetch you. It is your inner spirit that you perceive outside of you and you feel it coming to fetch you. What you are doi ng is merging with that inner spirit of yours, the Holy Spirit, call it whatever, these are labels. That is the light. VOICE: We create the perceptions. GURURAJ: We create the perceptions. VOICE: If we have a mental image of who will meet us, then t hat's what will meet us. GURURAJ: That's what it's going to be. Yeah, you're right. I think I have used this analogy about the Mohammedan people. That the Mohammedan people say you must not drink, you must not do this, you must not do that, you must n ot do that! But, if you live that way, without taking a drink, without doing this, without doing that or that...meanwhile, they have 97 wives. [HE LAUGHS] That's beside the point. VOICE: And divorce them three times. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Right. You just say, "tallah, tallah, tallah." Correct. Divorced. Not a bad system, you know. [HE LAUGHS] [LAUGHTER] VOICE: [SOMETHING ABOUT SHIVA]

4. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: Shiva, too. [HE LAUGHS] VOICE: The woman never can say that. [INAUDIBLE] Woman can never... GURUR AJ: No, no, no. Only the man, only the man, only the man. That's his prerogative. That's right. No, they promise you, they promise you, if you live a good life, if you don't do this, if you don't do that, right, and then when you pass ove r into the oth er dimension then there will be rivers of wine flowing. Right. Yah, right, there'd be houris looking after you. So I was telling, I was telling... VOICE: So why are you afraid of death because... GURURAJ: Yes, they'll be looking after you and you' ll be having a glorious time. Only if you look after yourself here. Now, I was telling [INAUDIBLE] the other day that there are two things: the richest organizations in the world is life insurance companies, right, and the churches. They both promise yo u something beyond, which they cannot fulfill. [LAUGHTER] What proof is there that if you do this, this, this, this, you'll go to Heaven? Prove it to me. Right? Right. After you die your family will get a bulk sum of money from the insurance company. Right. Most of the time they are very quick in taking your monthly premiums, but when it comes to paying out? We know. So, the entire concept of this world is based upon promises, promises, promises. Right. Now, what I am trying to teach is not prom ises. Experience. I want you to experience Heaven here. Absolutely, here and now. You see it now here? Now. Here. That's the experience. What is the purpose of life after all, if you cannot experience those experiences of joy and total tranquility and peace within yourself? FATHER: I do that but I still have to deal with other people who I see. And I feel a need to help and assist and give strength and give love to. Mostly love, because they are hurting. They are really...I deal with hurt...all of the day. GURURAJ: But that is not a problem, Father. That is not a problem. FATHER: It's a blessing.

5. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: Absolutely. It's a blessing. Because you are sharing your love with someone else that needs it. And what does the world require most today? You tell me. Love. That's what the world requires. To love and be loved is a Divine quality. It's Divinity itself. Love is God and God is love. Experience it here and now. BALDEV: But implicit in your question, Father, is the idea that if you're experiencing Heaven now or you're experiencing that [???] now, that somehow that might remove you from people so that you're not able to give. FATHER: I find difficulty with Hindu practices. GURURAJ: I'm not a Hindu, by the way. VOICE: Okay. GURURAJ: I'm not a Christian. I'm not a Moslem. I'm not a Buddhist. I am all. FATHER: Beautiful. I have difficulty with any religion or philosophy that ignores the person starving. GURURAJ: Absolutely. Now that is what I teach. I don't want you to believe in God. I don't want you to have faith in God. But I want you to walk the streets as a living go d. And how do you do that? By serving man. By suffering their sufferings, by enjoying their joys. BALDEV: Something you said last night, Guruji, I just have the conception that if I were to get involved with meditation and with spiritual practices tha t that would lead me away from the world and lead me to be, into a cave. Part of me wants to do that be monastic. Wants to just say, flip on all this stuff. FEMALE VOICE: Just give up all responsibility. GURURAJ: You'd better not flip her. VOICE: I won't. [LAUGHTER]

6. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: I'll smack your bottom. VOICE: I know you will. GURURAJ: I love him so much. THIRD PERSON: We all love him. VOICE: The thing was that I always had...that conception when I would see teachers and gurus that would come to the campus and that I would be more monastic and it would take me away from life. And what guruji has taught me, I haven't gotten there by any means, that it's possible for us to do practices and techniques that will so center us in that peace and love that we're better able to flow through our own stuff. And we're still with that intent that we have practices that will keep us in the world, not in a cave. And that by doing that we're better able to go out as soldiers and legions of peace and love than if we hang back and can't get through our own stuff so that we can be in that peace and...I've thought that a number of times. GURURAJ: Beautif ul. VOICE: Guruji said something last night, it was a very intense talk at the University of Baltimore and he was talking about religion and he was talking about... I had this sermon that I wanted to give the other morning, I don't [know?] when I'll e ver give a sermon, but it was all about the Christ. It was about the essence of the Christ. [It?] really was that we emphasize his ordinariness in the fact that he had sexual relations.... FATHER: That he had a penis. VOICE: That he had a penis and t hat it worked. THIRD PERSON: Alright.

7. U S 82 - 35 VOICE: And that all these things that make him human and at the same time Divine and this whole thing I wanted to get up and just shout from the housetops. And Guruji said last night, he said, "Religion, religion. What's missing in religion and what's missing in the Church is the fact that we talk words and words and words about love and words and words and words about God, and they're all just words. Because we've lost the way to show people to have an experienc e with God and show people to have the experience of love. And deep, deep love. And that really spoke to me, because I think that the Church is a beautiful institution. And I've heard you talk of this Father [?????] and how to fell them with the love tha t flows from your heart, and show other people how to fill themselves with that and experience it. GURURAJ: In many talks I've emphasized one point, that if you're a Christian, I want you to be a better Christian, if you're a Hindu, I want you to become a better Hindu, if you're a Buddhist, a better Buddhist. What I want you to become is a better human being. When you become a better human being, you are closer to God than you could ever be through any other way. By being a better human being. What is a better human being? It's where you have love in you, kindness, compassion, tolerance, patience, all those things combined. Where you would do unto to hers what you expect to be done unto thyself. VOICE: Only of my favorite stories is, comes from [Ju li's?] from her Indian background, and all, but it's the story of the snake. Will you tell the story? You know, the story of the snake who wanted to be loved. And people were terribly afraid of him. And he would go out and people were afraid of him and w ould hurt him. VOICE: Symbol of evil. VOICE: Symbol of evil. Until he goes to the holy man and he says, "Holy man, I love human beings, I love all of these creatures. I want to be in a loving relationship with them but they are afraid of me." And the holy man says, "Go out and love everyth ing you see." So he goes out and it's one bad day after another. Stoning him, afraid of him, running from him, because, you know, think that he will hurt them. And this one day the snake comes upon a group of people and they hurt him very badly. He is v ery damaged and he goes back to the holy man. He said, "I've tried and I have tried and all they do is hurt me and I don't know what to do anymore." And the holy man says to him, "I didn't tell you not to hiss." [LAUGHTER]

8. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: Don't bite, but you can hiss. [LAUGHTER] Beautiful. Beautiful story. [DISCUSSION AND COMMENTS AMONG THE GROUP] VOICE: But what you were saying about loving. All of us talking about loving one another, what comes back so much is that before we can do that, before we can love anyone, we have to love who we are. Do that first. GURURAJ: Now, the question would arise, how do you love someone else, you have to e able to love yourself first. Now, 99.999% of the world's population live very fragmentedly. One thought is pul ling that way, another thought is pulling that way, another one to north, south, east, west. Your body's doing this, your mind is doing that and your spirit is totall y ignored. The only way which is not my way this has been taught, whatever I teach I might express it in different ways to suit modern times and I might extend ideas from the Upanishads, because they are not complete as they are. So, I extend them and renew revolutionary thoughts to the world. But there's only one way that you can really love human beings or anything, if you become an integrated person. From fragmentation to integration, when the mind, body, and spirit become so integrated that, when a person asks me, as I had told you earlier on, "So you love?" I say, "I do not. I am love." You reach that stage of integration within yourself that you function in totality, not fragmentedly. And that totality is Divinity, damn it! Is God so far away? He is so close. So close, close, close. Open the bloody window and let the fresh ai r come in. Why keep it closed? VOICE: Is a part of loving yourself loving your negative parts also? GURURAJ: Yes, why not? Who says you've got negative parts? VOICE: I put the judgment on them as to whether they're positive or negative. GURURAJ: Yes, who is thinking? VOICE: The ego is thinking. GURURAJ: Who is questioning?

9. U S 82 - 35 VOICE: Um. Which question? [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: Of your negative self. VOICE: That's my question. Ego's saying one is negative and one is positive. GURURAJ: Right. What right have you to judge yourself? Judge ye not lest you be judged. VOICE: That's true. GURURAJ: How dare you judge yourself, a pure being, a manifestation of the image of God! And you call yourself negative because you go throu gh certain little bloody quarrels with your wife or your girlfriend or whoever it is? And you call that negative? VOICE: I call it reality in that I do pass that judgment. GURURAJ: It is not reality, but it is your conception of reality. VOICE: Tha t's good. That's good. GURURAJ: Now, how to bring yourself to the truestness of yourself. How to recognize your reality. How to recognize what is real within you and what is an illusion. You can only do it by becoming a meditator. There's no other w ay. I am the life. I am the way. I am the truth. Those words are important spoken by the guide. You are the way. Do you see? VOICE: A part of me sees that. GURURAJ: You are the way. VOICE: But there's a big part of me that doesn't!

10. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: You are the way. He is not the way. You are the way. You are the life, and you are the truth. Once that registers, once that registers in your mind, then the mind will stop analyzing. Because you're only working, as I was speaking sometime, I don't kn ow, your mind is working through the left hemisphere of the brain, analyzing, rationalizing, that. But through meditation and spiritual practices, where you form a coordination between the left hemisphere of the brain and the right hemisphere of the brain , and where the synaptic control is totally there, then you feel from the intuitive level, from inside. From inside you here. Because you are total and complete. You are a walking god on Earth. It is your fragmentation that tells you of your negativity . VOICE: What is the difficulty in accepting? It gives me great comfort and strength to accept Him as the way. I mean, that is a wonderful source for my concern for myself to know that He is the way, that I can follow... GURURAJ: When Jesus said, "I am the way, I am the life, I am the truth, he was not talking as a man. He was talking as the Universal Consciousness. VOICE: No problem. GURURAJ: No problem. And that consciousness you could put on any label you like. You can call it Krishna consciousness, Buddha consciousness, Christ consciousness, any kind of consciousness. VOICE: But there is a way. GURURAJ: I need a cigarette. H ave you got any? VOICE: Yes. GURURAJ: And bring me a drink. [LAUGHTER] SECOND PERSON: Did you finish that pack up, Guruji? Or is it somewhere upstairs?

11. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: No, no. I think it's in the bag. I've only got one pack a day, you know. VOICE: Did you finish that one packet though? GURURAJ: Yeah, offering it around. ANOTHER PERSON: I am that looks out of each of us when we are in place, when we are not controlling our perceptions [????]. GURURAJ: be ye like a child, then only can you ente r the Kingdom of Heaven. Be ye as a child. That means total innocence. Unprejudiced, uncluttered with the thoughts in your mind. That is the childlikeness, not childishness. Child like ness. So now, how do we clear the mind? How do you clear the mind ? VOICE: As an adult, as know that as a child. But I remember as a child. ANOTHER PERSON: I was a very nasty child. VOICE: I was, too. But when I was...the very, very first memory I have remembered as a child was under one year looking out in a baby buggy and seeing snow coming down and feeling, only feeling, no words, that I was a part of all of it. And I couldn't I didn't have to describe it, categorize it, do anything with it, I just was it. GURURAJ: Beautiful. [SHE'S TALKING, TOO. CAN'T HEAR.] There are many things that well up within us and Jungian people, psychology will teach you this, right, that there ar e many things that cannot be verbalized because every thought is a word. You cannot think without words. VOICE: Right. GURURAJ: And to go beyond words, what do you have? Symbols. And that is just as far as Jung goes. But what do you have beyond sym bols? You have words. You have symbols. What is beyond symbols?

12. U S 82 - 35 VOICE: Allness? GURURAJ: What is allness! Tell me about it. VOICE: The mind thinks about it, so I...? SECOND PERSON: You have nothing. You have no thing. GURURAJ: That's it. A nd that nothing is everything. You know, I've been telling this story so many times and perhaps you might have heard it or not have heard it, but it's worth repeating. A chela, disciple, goes to his guru and he says, "Show me God." He was very insistent. So, the guru says, "Do you see that tree over there? Bring that fruit from the tree." He brought the fruit. "Open the fruit" He opened the fruit. "Take out the seed in the fruit." He took out the seed. He said, "Break open the seed." And inside t here, in the seed, was nothing. And yet that very nothingness produced the fruit, produced the tree, produced the branches and the leaves and everything. VOICE: And yet it's the essence of nothingness that makes us feel impotent. GURURAJ: Int...? VOI CE: Impotent. As if we are nothing. As if nothing can come from that. GURURAJ: No, nothing can never come from nothing. VOICE: I hear you. GURURAJ: Everything comes from something. And that Divine essence is so subtle that we fail to recognize the very subtleness of that Divine essence. VOICE: But...?

13. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: Because. Because, I'll tell you why. Because we try to analyze it with the mind. FATHER: But God created out of nothing. GURURAJ: God never created out of nothing. He cannot create anything out of nothing. Therefore, I would rather use the word manifestation. FATHER: But I'm putting aside love. Obviously the creativity i s based on love. GURURAJ: Creativity comes from mind. Why do you want to be creative? You become a good pianist. You become a good poet, a writer or an artist. Why? Do you know why? Because you are trying to perfect yourself through your mode of creation. That's what you are trying to do, nothing more. And through expressing yourself through your creation, you are trying to find the joy and peace which is inherent in you. VOICE: Or it could be a big garbage man. GURURAJ: Nothing wrong. Noth ing wrong to be a big garbage man. Right. As a matter of fact, a garbage man is more important than a doctor. The garbage man prevents disease. [LAUGHS] The doctor only tries to cure it. BALDEV: And one time you said about street sweepers, you said t hat street sweepers have the...one of the most elevated jobs in the world. To be a good sweeper is probably better than... GURURAJ: To be a good doctor. A doctor only cures. The street sweeper prevents. ANOTHER PERSON: The impulse, what I'm hearing you say, the impulse to create whether we're talking things or whatever is the thing, that we never stop growing. We never stop becoming. We don't wake up one morning and say, "I've got it." GURURAJ: No, no. The process of creation is a process, noth ing else. You're involved in this process all the time. All the time. This universe explodes, in a second another universe is created. You get sucked into the black hole and from

14. U S 82 - 35 the other side another force shoots out, which we call evolution and what have you. So...right. Creation is limited to relativity. Creation is limited to relativity. Creation is not of the Absolute. The absolute does not create. And when I t alk of the Absolute, I mean the impersonal God who is a neutral energy that man wit h his free will can use the way he wants to. Put it into the electric stove, heat. Put it into the fridge...refrigerator, cold. A neutral energy and that neutral e nergy is within you. It can be captured and used. Otherwise, what is the necessity of ex istence if you can't use that energy? To me everything I see around me, those leaves, those flowers, our little [poopy?] here, you, everyone, everything to me is God. VOICE: Sure. Paul says for the revelation. GURURAJ: That's the trouble with you ministers, you always refer to the book. [LAUGHTER] VOICE: ...Paul had problems one day. SECOND PERSON: He didn't like women a whole lot. GURURAJ: ...and Paul, and Paul. THIRD PERSON: He needed a therapist. GURURAJ: And Paul on the road to Damascus. What did he experience? What did he really experience? BALDEV: He experienced God. VOICE: Himself. SECOND PERSON: Death. GURURAJ: He experienced himself. He experienced the soul that was within him. V OICE: So he saw that light and it was him.

15. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: He experienced that spirit within him and that was the light that was projected in front of him. FATHER: There, there you are. You bring up a point. I like to believe in outside help. And I do bel ieve the spirit moveth where it bloweth, and that there is a Divine spirit that enables me to reach the goal.... GURURAJ: You are absolutely right. You are absolutely right, but the point that is missed at this moment is this, that how do we tap the out side source? VOICE: Actually, for me, I know the source is outside because I'm not in touch with myself. So it's seen as being outside. GURURAJ: Now, when you come to the realization that the outside and the inside is one, I and my Father are one, then differentiation, discrimination ceases. BALDEV: The analogy that comes to my mind, Guruji, as Father [?????] was saying, is that the l ight is the same. It sounds like a strange analogy but it seems to me that sometimes I am in a cave in...in a mine, and I have my little light and the battery keeps wavering. [LAUGHTER] And I know that my little light is going to hold out for a certain amount of time. I know it's good and I don't think it's ever going to go out, but I can't get in touch with the energy source totally to dig myself out by myself. So I know that grace is on the other side with a rescue team, digging through. So if I can find a way of communicating with grace, grace knows where I am. I don't have to tell them where in the mind I am, so the analogy doesn't fit. But, if I can communicate and draw the grace to me, not that they don't know where I am, it's just that I don't , I need to call upon them. If I can call upon grace as the rescue team, then they're digging at ten, fifteen million times fast er than I'm digging over here. And once we get together, when they break through, the light's totally the same, even though mi ne's flickering and the other one is a sun. GURURAJ: You know, I had a girlfriend some years ago, as a young man. Her name was Grace. She was so lovely. And I tried to analyze what grace really is. You know what I found grace to really be? I think I have used this analogy many times. You plant a seed in the ground for a plant to grow. That seed explodes to express itself. There are enough minerals in the ground that supports the explosion and expansion for its growth. There's enough sunlight and e nough air. There is enough rain and a bit of nurturing. Now, what is the quality? What is the substance that brings all this into

16. U S 82 - 35 balance? The sunlight, the air, the minerals in the ground, what? Because if you have too much of one the plant will die. What is that substance that brings it into such a balance that the plant grows? That is grace. That's the Father. VOICE: Through that beautiful creation then God put Adam and Eve in the garden and God said, "Tend the garden." GURURAJ: You must tell me about Adam and Eve. SECOND PERSON: We talked about Adam and eve last night, didn't we? GURURAJ: You must tell me about Adam and Eve. FATHER: I was saying that we are Adam and Eve. But we were given the beautiful, creative means to tend this gard en, which is our creation. GURURAJ: Beautiful. Beautiful. VOICE: But we fucked up. [LAUGHTER] GURURAJ: What'd he say? SECOND PERSON: No, we didn't fuck up. The serpent... VOICE: No, no, the serpent did nothing. SECOND PERSON: He [INAUDIBLE] healing. VOICE: No. SECOND PERSON: It's a good story. You go on. VOICE: But I love this garden. I love this garden.

17. U S 82 - 35 THIRD PERSON: We are all gardeners. VOICE: You talk about the sunlight and all those [crudiments?] that go together... GURURAJ: It's all part of the garden. FATHER: I'm so delighted that I have been chosen to be part of that grace to tend that garden. I think we're fouling our nest today, you see. And my concern is how do we not foul our nest? We are told these things , beautiful things that I am listening to [apprehending? apprehensively?]. GURURAJ: Don't apprehend, comprehend. FATHER: We know, then how to take car of this garden and get rid of the bomb and get rid of all the things that go with that. GURURAJ: Wh at a world we are involved in, Father. What a world we are involved in. Where they are spending billions sending up Columbus into space. Billions, billions when there are billions of people suffering for a piece of bread. Look a t the amount of money th at's spent on nuclear energy and I don't know what all, which could be helpful to people. The starvation in the world. If you go to the East, millions and millions of people are dying for that one piece of bread. VOICE: And they're building bombs. GURU RAJ: And they're also building bombs. So, so, so, it is not only America, it's all the countries of the world. FATHER: What if America were to declare tomorrow "There will be no more bombs?" We would not spend any more money on what you've been talki ng about. We will only spend money for taking care of needy people. GURURAJ: You are right. That would not be possible because there are too many vested interests. FATHER: But what if it were to happen?

18. U S 82 - 35 GURURAJ: You are projecting a thought which has no substance. FATHER: I am a believer in that thought. GURURAJ: Good, good, good. But how to bring that projection of your thought to reality. [???] VOICE: But we can start in one corner of the world , can't we? SECOND PERSON: No. No, not even a corner. One on one. GURURAJ: I use one analogy which I am very, very, you know, fond of, and the analogy is this: that becoming personally integrated, as a flower, the nature of the flower is to be beauti ful. But that's not the only thing you do, you also enhance the beauty of the garden. SECOND PERSON: Alright. So you get to think of your rebuttal and we move in and have lunch. VOICE: No, I have asked and I have received. I have received my thought [break?] ...until the blacks rise up. GURURAJ: Let me speak to how it is. He is a great man, this guy. He is so humble. [VARIOUS DISCUSSIONS GOING ON AT ONCE OVER LUNCH.] SECOND PERSON: I guess one of the things, you know, we wanted to talk to you a bout is we see a lot of people in different stages of whether they are approaching death or going through a believing process, and even though from our frameworks we know that there is no death... GURURAJ: Get me in touch with a person who [is?] nearl y dying and you will see what [I?] will do.

19. U S 82 - 35 VOICE: I know what you will do. There are a lot of people out there who don't know who they are. They don't know that there is no death. We cannot come to someone and say, "You don't know who you are. There is no death." We have to be there with the person in death, because that's where they are. GURURAJ: But if the person is dying and that [?????] touch will give them a few more years, a few more years of life, why not? To complete what they have to do. VOICE: No one dies before...I think that no one dies before their time in the world [is?] complete and that's an internal thing inside them that they might not be aware of. What I'm saying is that we're talking about being with a lot of people who are no t conscious of... GURURAJ: Those are the kind of people I want to meet. Absolutely. VOICE: And so, no matter where we are, which is a good place at the same time we also have to see where they are, knowing what we do, but at the same time to allow...to allow what's right form them. GURURAJ: Their minds have to be put into a different perspective, that death must not be feared but welcomed. VOICE: However, if we do it, it's a very low key. It's not laying anything on anybody which would be [????] on their own evolution, because evolution has...we have to be where they are at the time when they need us. I have never seen anyone die, and Bill and Judy can disagree with this, I have never seen anyone die in fear. I have seen a lot of fear before becau se people are afraid of dying instead of being dead. GURURAJ: What happens in the process of death is this: that before they discard the physical body, they become totally unconscious. They do. All the time, [DISCUSSION CONTINUES ABOUT EUPHEMISMS FOR D EATH.] [END SIDE ONE] GURURAJ: Death, too is life.

20. U S 82 - 35 VOICE: Yes. SECOND PERSON: Tell him about permission. What we do. FATHER: We give permission to people to die. But, I mean, within...it's best when they want to make their transition. But so many people are reluctant to let them go that unless they have permission they feel guilty sometimes about passing over or whatever, and it's a very big struggle. And without permission sometimes it can be a bad experience for the survivors, as well as fo r those who are dying. I'm only saying that, you know, it might be wonderful if he is going to be in town. To see Felicia. GURURAJ: Explain me one thing, Father, when you mention the word "permission," what right have you to give anyone permission to d ie? SECOND PERSON: None, whatsoever. VOICE: None. GURURAJ: Now, what do you mean by permission? VOICE: By being able to say simply, I'm going to miss you, and I love you. SECOND PERSON: It's the acceptance of that person where they're at. VOICE: [???] need to take the next step. GURURAJ: You know, I had an experience not so long ago, I think it was last year sometime. Judy, I want you to listen to this. Go and have your tea first. JUDY: No, I'll have tea later. GURURAJ: Judy, I had an experience when a person came to knock me up...

21. U S 82 - 35 VOICE: Call, call, call... [VARIOUS COMMENTS ABOUT HIS USE OF "KNOCK" INSTEAD OF "CALL" ME UP.] SOMEONE BRINGS UP THE STORY OF USING FANNY IN ENGLAND.] GURURAJ: Let me tell you the story, then I'll carry on with the next subject. In South Africa and America fanny means backside. Now, I was addressing some of my teachers, about 80 90 of them, and I said, "Get off your bloomin' fannies and do some work!" Right. So after that those who were close to me ran up to my room upstairs and said, "Guruji, do you know what you said now?" I said, "What did I say?" They said, "Fanny." I said, "Yes. What's wrong with fanny, backside?" They said, "No, in England "fanny" means a woman's front side." And here in America I had a [??????] experience. I was speaking to these people and I said, "Look, please, I am here to serve you. Right. And at anytime during the middle of the night you can dome and knock me up." And afterwards I was explained the knocking up m eans making a woman pregnant. Just shows...just shows the difference in language. For example, I'd say, "Father, give me a fag," which means cigarette. But fag here means someone gay. VOICE: I was visiting someone from England in April and we were co ming back and I was... [SIDE TWO HAS ONLY A FEW AUDIBLE WORDS.] **** END ****


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