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1. U S 82 - 51 FARGO: REINCARNATION AND INTEGRATION RAPID FIRE VOICE: ... certain paths of investigation. Do you have any comments to make? GURURAJ: Yes. That we will do in the second half of the program, rapid fire question and answer session. I want a nice deep philosophical question on which I could talk for an hour, two hours, whatever. VOICE: Guruji, could you expound a little on the theory of reincarnation, which is basically the theory of the past, and the theory of resurrection, which is the theory of the future and how they balance and can harmonize in today's international communit y. GURURAJ: Very good. Any more? Because I could handle half a dozen questions at the same time. CHETAN: What is the integration that you have spoken about recently on TV and radio in recent days on your tour? And does this integration affect our da ily life? And does it have anything to do with spirituality? GURURAJ: Um hm. Good. What is reincarnation? You, the real you, is never reincarnated. For the real you is eternal and immortal. So where's eternity and immortality there is no question wh atsoever of reincarnation. What requires reincarnation is just the soul, and not the spirit. Now, there's a great difference between soul and spirit. A soul is the combination of your little self which is comprised of your ego self, the sense of I ness, the mind, and with the I ness and the mind you feel an individuality within yourself. Now three score years and ten are too little to go through the whole range of experiences that you have had in the past. This means that the range of experiences of you r past in this life or perhaps in other lives have left certain impressions upon your mind. And those impressions that are left upon your mind is the cause of binding you to that little individuality which you think you are. So the purpose of reincarnati on would be to lead you from that individuality to universality, ([to baby] you agree, don't you) To lead you from that individuality to that universality that is the reality of yourself. The individuality is unreal in the sense

2. U S 82 - 51 that it is so temporary. So from the changingness of life you are lead to the changelessness of life. For everything is life. I never talk of death, I only talk of life. For there is no death. Even this physical body which is discarded merges away, disintegrates itself into th e various elements it is composed of: water to water, air to air, ether to ether, dust to dust. But after discarding this body, what is left behind that goes into a different dimension is only that thing called your soul whic h is comprised of your impress ions which is ego, and the mind, which is also the ego, but empowered and given force by the spirit that is within you. Now this is necessary incarnations and reincarnations are necessary for one purpose only, and the purpose is to un condition the c onditionings that are in your mind. For to reach the primal level of purity you have to be rid of all those impressions that are there, all the patternings, all the conditionings that came through the ages and which are implanted in that which you call yo ur mind. So when you find greater clarity within the mind, you automatically and very spontaneously reach to that area which is beyond all patternings, and you become one with that which is non patterned. Good. Divinity itself is non patterned. And you go through these various stages, through these various kingdoms, the mineral, the plant, the animal, until you become man. But that is where all troubles begin. Everything in existence works instinctively. They move on in the evolutionary process since t he Big Bang. They move on in this evolutionary process instinctively and with the flow of nature. But when you start becoming human, and when the thinking process begins, there is where all the confusion arises. For you could, because of the thinking abi lity, proceed naturally with the laws of nature, or you could proceed unnaturally against the laws of nature. And as you proceed against the currents, the greater the struggle you have within you. And what is that struggle? How is that struggle interpre ted by your mind? That struggle is interpreted through the pleasures and pains you go through life. But be sure to know this: that with every pleasure there is its counterpart, pain. When there is day there has to be night; where there is heat there has to be coldness; sunshine will always be accompanied with rain. So you are involved in the law of opposites and because you are involved in the law of opposites, reincarnation of your little self is necessary. But the real self within you does not need to be incarnated or reincarnated. Where do we go from there? We start off with cognition. And we go through the process, through these various incarnations to re cognition of that Divinity which you really are. Full circle. There's never a straight line. Every line, as you would learn, ends up in a circle. Two people back to back against each other and walking away from each other finds them self around the world to meet each other face to face. And that is exactly what you are doing, and that is the p urpose of reincarnation. That is the purpose why these lives have to be taken: to learn. To re cognize your own cognition, and that own cognition of yours is your real self.

3. U S 82 - 51 So when people tell you "be like Krishna, be like Buddha, be like Christ," don't believe a word. I tell you be yourself. I know you all want to summer in the country, but being reincarnated you simmer in the city. So there is a certain validity to reincarnation. And if we examine this more closely we find why is one child born defective and another child born healthy? Why is one child born in happy circumstances and another in unhappy circumstances? Why? If God is supposed to be one of justice and justness, why should he make one suffer and the other not? What is the cause of this? The cause of this is you, and no one else but you. It is mixed up with your actions in life and reactions of the very actions. And yet to find a way out of this, what we require is integration. Instead of living a life of fragmentation and 99 .999 percent of the world's population live fragmentedly. One thought in the mind is pulling this way, another is pulling that way, and the third is pulling another way. But if man can function totally in totality, mind, body, and spirit, then you wil l k now the answer of integration, and then reincarnation is not necessary. It is only because of your fragmentation that you get reincarnated every time to learn and learn and learn and learn more. And what are you learning? How to become integrated. How to live life in its totality. How to live life in fullness and not in foolishness. For aren't we damn fools, really? Everything is there built in within you. You have all the tools within you. It's only to be shown how the tools that are wi thin you can be made to function, and function properly so that from the untogetherness of life you come to a togetherness of life. And that is integration. It reminds me of a little story. There was a man who used to go to a restaurant every day and he used to orde r a can of Coca Cola. But as soon as he ordered a can of Coca Cola and sat down at a table, he used a can opener to open the can. Now we all know that the can has a little gadget whereby it could open itself. But this man used a can opener. ( [to baby] ok, lovey, after you finish I'll start again.) So a week went by, two weeks went by, three weeks went by, and this man every day religiously used to go to the same restaurant and use his can opener to open his Coca Cola. But this piqued the curiosity of the shop keeper. And one day he could not contain his curiosity much longer, and he went to this man and said, "Excuse me, sir, but why do you use a can opener when there is the thingamajig there that you could open a can with?" So this man replies, " That is for people that do not have a can opener." [He laughs] And that is exactly what we are doing: using can openers when the entire device is there contained within yourself. And we use external means to open our cans that is there ready, bursting w ith joy. Are we not like fish in the water but dying of thirst.

4. U S 82 - 51 So for the process of integration, all the tools are within you. Only thing you need to know is how to use the tools. That's all. You might have many tools which you use everyday instinctiv ely. But this tool, this very easy method of going using your conscious mind that is filled with so many turbulences and so many problems and so many worries using that very conscious mind, leading it gradually through the layers of the patternings of your subconscious, and then reaching the level of the superconscious mind. And there at the level of the superconscious mind you would find that quietness, that peace, that tranquility. And then you will know the meaning of what is quoted in our scrip tures, "be still and know that I am God." So what do we do? We proceed from turbulence to stillness. How simple. Only one problem remains. It is so simple to be happy, but so difficult to be simple. So simple to be happy, but so difficult to be simple. And until you reach that simplicity within yourself, until you reach the Kingdom of Heaven which is there within yourself, you will never know the simplicity of life. Because day by day, in every action that you perform, in everything you do, you're addin g complexity upon complexity because the search is outward instead of inward. Now, through a systematic method of meditation, a scientific method of meditation individually prescribed for you, for your own personal needs, you reach that deep level within y ourself which I call the superconscious level. And the superconscious level represents and is pure consciousness. You know, pigs revel in dirt. Are we to be honest to ourselves, not rolling in that mud and maya of misery and suffering when you do not ne ed it. So again, from turbulence to that peace and quietude within, there is the Kingdom of Heaven, at the superconscious level stage, at its finest point of relativity. And then from there you merge away into the Absolute. Like a pound of salt being t hrown in the ocean. Does the salt lose its individuality? No. The salt becomes mixed with the universality of the ocean. So the ocean does not become saltier and neither sweeter. But you become one with the ocean. In other words, it means your indivi duality merges in that universality that you already are. But not wanting to face it. So therefore your reincarnation is necessary life after life after life to learn how to merge away, how to merge in that beauty of universality. For within you is contained the entire universe. And when you find yourself man, know thyself.... No scrip ture in the world has said, "Man, find God." But all scriptures say "Man, know thyself." And knowing thyself the entire universe will become known to you. By going through a systematic process of meditation, you find your real self, your universal self. By going through a systematic, personally prescribed form of meditation you reach within. And after finding the Kingdom of Heaven within, all else shall be added unto thee. And when you find the togetherness within yourself, you'll find the togetherness with everything around you.

5. U S 82 - 51 So learn to love thyself. For learning to love thyself could you know the true meaning of that great injunction, "Love thy neighbor as thyself." For if you are fragmented within yourself, which means you cannot love yourself, how can you love your neighbor as yourself? It becomes an impossibility. But remember, in the impossibility take the "m" and put a stroke between the "I" and the "m." Then where does that bring us? A stroke between the "I" and the "m", then you say, " I'm possible," not impossible. So all the possibilities are there. I'm possible. And the greatest possibility I have, the grea test gift given to me, my birthright, my inheritance, is for me to know myself. And when you know yourself you become an integ rated being. Now what are the benefits of becoming integrated? [coughs] Pardon. I've been traveling all around the United States, sleeping in one bed tonight and another bed the next night, and eating all kinds of different foods which I'm not used to. Gives me a bit of... it's not important. I'm possible. Ok. I'm here. I've still got to go and do England after this. As a matter of fact, I did England, Denmark, Spain, and a couple of other places. Went to South Africa for a month and came out here fo r three months doing TV shows and radio talks and public lectures and holding courses and... it's just catching up a bit now. Excuse me while I blow my nose [he blows]. [to baby] There, I'll give you a chance. Come on. You know, I don't want to stret ch your minds too much. I think we should intersperse a couple of jokes. There were these two nuns any present? no. There were these two nuns that were going in a car. And they got stuck without gas. So the gas station we call it petrol in Engl and and South Africa. You call it gas. So the gas station was about half a mile away, but they had to find a container for the gas. So the only thing they could find in the car was a bed chamber what do you call it here? [VOICE: chamber pot]. Chambe r pot. So they took this chamber pot to the garage and had it filled with petrol and started pouring it into the car. So at this very moment a few GI's were passing by. So this one GI stood there looking and staring in amazement. And he said, "Madam, I don't think this will work, but I sure do admire your faith." [Laughter] So reincarnation is a reality. But discriminate now between reality and actuality. What could be real could just be apparent, like seeing a movie. You see it happening on the scre en, but yet it is seemingly real. Or you could go and see a magicians's show where he makes a motor car or an elephant disappear. It seems real. But is it actual? That apparent reality is only for the surface layer of yourself. Because you need to com e back to school again and again and again. You pass standard 1 and you go to standard 2, and you got to go to standard 3 and 4 and 5 and 6. I don't know how your education system is based here. But that's the way it's done from where I come from. Right. And that is why to learn more and more you get reincarnated. But the real self in you, the actuality of you, never knows of incarnation or reincarnation. It always is, unchanging.

6. U S 82 - 51 So the surface will keep on changing. Like the turbulent waves on the o cean, they keep on changing. But diving deeper down, diving deeper within, there's such deep calmness and peace. And that's where we want to be. Can anyone ever tell me 4 thousand million people living in this world can anyone ever tell me that "I w ant unhappiness." No. Everyone wants, consciously or unconsciously, that joy, that fulfillment within themselves. And it shows out in your daily actions by being calm, by being tranquil, by being unbothered. The world has not changed around you. But y ou have changed. So this diving deep within and the change that's produced within you can only be done on an individual basis and not a collective basis. Many reformers have come and gone, if you study the history of the world, but the world still remains the same. But you as an individual can change. You are the flower that is so beautiful. It is your nature to be beautiful. But that's not the only thing you do. The beautiful flower in spite of it being beautiful within itself, also enhances the beaut y of the garden. What greater service can you do than that? To make your environment more beautiful than it is. And when you're integrated, your entire perception of things change. You look at things from a greater awareness, a vaster awareness, inst ead of looking at life through the small little key hole. You open the door, knock and it shall be opened. Seek and thou shalt find. But why bluff ourselves? We know these great injunctions, "seek and thou shalt find." But who is really seeking. What y ou are seeking for is how to get rid of your problems. Hm? And I don't blame you for that. Good. True. Seek to get rid of your problems. But why go to a carpenter when your faucet is leaking. Call a plumber when the faucet is leaking, not a carpenter . Just call the carpenter when some piece of your furniture is broken. That's his job. And approach a spiritual master to heal the ills of your spirit. Huh? You see. And this is so simply done through a systematic, scientific process of meditation whi ch is individually prescribed. My teachers are taught only how to teach. They are not taught how to prescribe. ([to baby] You're right.) I do the prescriptions and they do the dispensing. For when I get a form from you wit h your photograph attached I use the photograph as a focal point and go into a deep state of meditation. In Sanskrit it's called "samadhi." I reach that superconscious level and from that vantage point I'm totally in touch with you. And you might be thousands and thousands of miles away. And from there I could evaluate your evolutionary state, your emotional state, your physical state. And accordingly, out of thousands and thousands and thousands of different kinds of practices, you are given the proper medicine. Which is sent ba ck to the teachers and the teachers in turn teach you how to use those practices. And the aim is only one: to lead you from fragmentation to integration. To lead you from misery and turbulence to joy and peace. To show you that the external search has r eached a point of saturation. So now, turn back and seek inside. The umbrella name of our organization is the International Foundation for Spiritual Unfoldment. Remember "unfoldment," not

7. U S 82 - 51 development. Because you are fully developed as you are. If God is omnipresent, then he is present within every cell of your body. You are fully developed as you are. You have only to take off the veils. You've only got to clean the mirror so that you can see yourself clearly. Why leave the mirror dirty and you get a distorted view of yourself. Why not clean the mirror and get a proper view of yourself. Then you know how to put your eye lashes in properly and do your lipsticks and.... You know, you've heard of the Polish musician Paderewski. One day this musician met a polo player. And they were sitting down in a cafe over a cup of tea and they were chatting. So Paderewski says, "You're a dear soul playing polo, and I'm a poor Pole playing solo." You got to walk the path with your own two feet. I can only show you the way, I can only show you the life, I can only show you the truth. But you've got to walk the path. You've got to do it solo. You see. What I'm doing tonight is sharing. I do not talk from books. I do not talk of acquired knowledge. But I talk o f personal experience that I share with you. If you ask me, "Do you believe in God?" I will say, "No. I do not believe in God. I kno w God." And that is why I could share Him with you. I'm not sharing a concept. For all beliefs are concepts. But I'm sharing experience. And if I could find that, if I could know that, then each and every one in the auditorium can find that and know that. For then only would I be successful in my mission, in my sharing. For you too to know what Divinity is. Is that abou t an hour? Just about. Good. We'll have a break for.... Then we'll have a ten minute break for the ladies to go and powder their noses. Tea as well. Oh, that's lovely. And then the second session.... [END SIDE ONE] VOICE: ...teachers, holy men, ph ilosophers, what do they attribute it to? GURURAJ: There is a short biographical sketch, I think. Have you got one [VOICE: Yes. A stack.] A stack. That will tell you. But from the age of four, I ran away from home trying to find God. Now this might sound unusual to you for a child of four. But then remember Yehudi Menuhin could play Bach and Beethoven or his violin at that age so it is not unusual. Yes, I roamed around various temples and monasteries and I met gurus and gurus and gurus and learned a little from here, learned a little from there. I spent my time sleeping in the temples. I tried to speak to the gods in the temple but none would answer me. But I did have a nice time. All the fruits that are given in the temples as an offering to G od, I enjoyed them. If they could offer these fruits to these stone idols that are supposed to be Divine, then I started thinking:

8. U S 82 - 51 wait a minute. If a stone idol could contain Divinity within itself then why is that Divinity not within me. So these offer ings are not for those stone offerings. They cannot eat it. Let me have a nice time. And then going from temple to temple, meeting gurus and gurus and learning a lot until I met my own guru, Swami Pavitranandaji. For eight months he never took any notic e of me. When from college other children used to go home on vacation I used to go roam around in the Himalayas to be with my guru. For eight months he took no notice of me. And it was really funny to me, that gurus are really funny people. But later o n in reflection I found out why he totally ignored me. The reason was this, that I was very arrogant, proud. I was quite a nice looking boy in my younger days and all these little girls followed me around all the time. Plenty of money, plenty of everyth ing. I worked in the film studios as an assistant to the script writers, to the director, to the producer. All the actors and actresses were friends, the wealthy class. So I wa s never in need. And so I was proud and arrogant. A brilliant student and a ll that kind of thing. So my guru ignored me, and in post reflection I found out why: that he was breaking me down. He was breaking down my arrogance and my ego. And then one day out of the blue he said, "Come on, let's meditate." Now he loved his hook a hooka is an Indian pipe don't know if you've seen one. Filled with tobacco, molasses, and water and the water acts as a filter. And every morning at four my job was to prepare these hookas. And one morning I was a bit late. So what he did he cam e around at ten past four with a cane and slapped me on the backside: "Hey, get up! Don't you know it's ten past four." You see. He tried to break me down to rebuild me into that humility, into that humbleness. And I needed that. And I found it to be so in retrospection. And then all of a sudden he said, "Come let's sit down to meditate." I sat down, meditated with him. It was two hours but to me it seemed like just two minutes. And I was filled with gold. Everything around me was covered in a gol den haze. And this persists still up to today, every moment of the day. Here too everything is filled with gold. Golden haze covers everything. I do not even see your faces, but I see little blobs of light. Some dim, some a bit brighter. Blobs. Fine. Take one of those handbills, there are more details in there. Next question. While you're trying to think of a question. There was this priest and he was posting a Bible to one of his parishoners. So the clerk in the post office said, "Sir, is there anything breakable in here?" So the priest answers, "Yes, only the Ten Commandmen ts." Would you guide the hands. VOICE: There seems to be a great awakening in the Moslem faith around the people of the world. What is your opinion of what this is?

9. U S 82 - 51 GURURAJ: Good. I'm not to sure if there is such a great awakening of the Moslem f aith. I want to be sure of a greater awakening of yourself in spite of any faith. If you're a Christian I want you to become a better Christian. If you're a Hin du I want you to become a better Hindu. If you are a Moslem I want you to become a better Mo slem. In other words it means become a better human being. VOICE: You don't feel threatened by something going on in the Islamic, Moslem faith, then? GURURAJ: I don't feel threatened by anything because I am totally fearless. The man of God is always fearless. He knows of no fear. But any religion that you might need to follow, even if it is a religion that is very surface level, or a religion that is very deep, by all means start from where you can start. If you live in Fargo, you can't start from Chicago. Start from Fargo. SAME VOICE: What do you think of the Ayatollahs, then [???]. GURURAJ: I only speak of personal experience. I have never met Ayatollah so I could tell you nothing about him. Next. VOICE: Gururaj, is there any way to brin g the conceptual [???] to those who may not have had the experience of enlightenment to the high degree that you have. Any way of putting in conceptual form what the nature of oneness [????] form.... GURURAJ: I understand your question, you say one line I understand the whole book. What is mergence. That's the basis of your question. Why are Americans so verbose? What is the nature of mergence. It is something which is unexplainable. When the individual merges in the universal how can you explain the infinite with the finite mind. [Something starts clanking] You cannot explain it, but you can experience it. And what are the results of the experience? When you function in totality? Where your mind, body, and spirit functions in a oneness? Inte gration. That is mergence. And when you feel, when you experience the integration or the mergence, your whole dimension, your whole perspective, your entire awareness changes. You become aware. You look at a flower, or you look at a picture, or you look at a table, and that very same table that seems such a wooden table to you now will have different proportions to it. For you will not only see the table but you will see the entire molecular

10. U S 82 - 51 structure of that table. And when you see that, you will see the entire molecular structure of this chair; you will see the entire molecular structure of yourself; and everything else will seem to you to be one. Then you are lead from dualism to unity, unity consciousness, where all is alike. Everything is the sam e, in spite of still recognizing the outer appearance, the appearance of name and form. But with that mergence you experience the oneness of everything around you. And how does that express itself? It expresses itself by love. For then you love truly an d totally. Because you are not apart from anything. You are one with everything. And this in turn brings to you a deep inner joy, bliss inexplicable. Wha t more do you need? Next. VOICE: I have a simple question. What makes a person a guru? GURURAJ : Oh, what makes a person a guru? I wish I knew [laughter]. It might not be the efforts of one lifetime. It might be the efforts of many, many lifetimes. And you should only be entitled to call yourself a guru if you have found that mergence with God, where you can truly say, "I know God." For as I'm speaking to you, you will feel within yourself a vibration. I'm speaking not only to your mind, but also I'm awakening something in your heart. And that is proof enough of my knowingness of God. You know [some voice interrupts] a chap went to a guru, a student. He says, "I'd like to become a student of yours, a chela. What do I have to do?" So the guru tells him that "Oh, you have to wake up at 4:00 in the morning, you have to clean the house, polish th e furniture, light the fire, and a million other things like that are required. You have to cook the food, sweep the floors, look after the garden." So this fellow says, "Yes, alright, and what does the guru do?" "Oh, a guru does nothing. He sits around chatting, spouting out wisdom he has gained." So this man says, "Then I don't want to become a chela, I'd rather become a guru." [Laughter] VOICE: Have you met many gurus that call themselves gurus but are false? GURURAJ: I have, unfortunately. Unfortunately I have met gurus and people like Muktananda, Rajneesh, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and many many more they're normally a bit scared of me. Because when I go to them and chat with them I give them shit [Laughter ]. If there's anything wrong they're doing. I tell them straight. I've met Gandhi, yes. Unfortunately, gurudom because of these bogus ones you find around has really cast a shadow on true gurudom. They are nothing but business people, money make rs. That's all what they are. I'm the poorest guru in the world. I

11. U S 82 - 51 wouldn't know where my next meal is coming from. I wouldn't know how to get to Fargo, for example, if it was not for the kindness of Lee that sent us two tickets, one for me and my secr etary. Next. You know, this chap picks up the telephone. He wanted to go to the theater. And he says, "Could you book a box for two?" So the voice on the other end of the line says, "We only have boxes for one." So he says, "Isn't that the Empire thea ter?" So the girl says, "No this is the undertakers. [A little laughter]. We have only got boxes for one." Next. VOICE: Do you think there is life on other planets or other universes quite similar to homo sapiens on earth here? And if you do do you t hink they have a higher intelligence, the same, or....? GURURAJ: True. Both. Higher and lower. There are other intelligences on other worlds, and remember this world is not unique to us, but there are so many many worlds that are so similar to ours an d there are other worlds in existence that has a a far higher intelligence level where even verbal communication becomes unnecessary. And there are other worlds again on a much lower evolutionary scale than ours. SAME VOICE: The higher ones, do you thin k they have come to Earth here among the homo sapiens [???]? GURURAJ: Oh yes, oh yes. Look, everyone phoo phoos the UFO's. But that is the truth. There are UFO's. And many of them are trying to contact us for one purpose only is to bring man to the s tage of a realization of how to unify the mind and the heart. Because around the year 2050 we can expect a great calamity because of all our modern discoveries. Look at the neutron bomb that will kill people but save all the buildings. Now like that ther e are so many many more inventions in the world which the governments of so many countries have not talked about but shelved it for fear of creating panic in people's minds. The catastrophe could be so vast that it will not only affect this planet but the entire solar system. And with its rippling effect it could expand further into the entire galaxy. So the contact they are trying t o make is for the purpose of peace, and not war. VOICE: How are you and your organization participating in world cooper ation so that a calamity in 2050 will not happen? Or is it inevitable?

12. U S 82 - 51 GURURAJ: That is why we founded this organization in 1975 seven, eight, years ago for the purpose of opening up people's hearts. Now technologically there has been a high stat e of progress. And there will be more and more progress made technologically. As I said, many many more inventions are there which are hidden away from the public eye for fear of creating panic. Now our organization is aimed at opening the heart and the reby creating greater love and peace. So when the heart is combined to the mind then the mind will not use the very inventions we have already in a destructive way. Rather more constructively. That's the purpose of our mission. I don't even call my orga nization an organization or a movement or anything of that nature. That's my mission, to bring you the message of joy and love and peace. And show you how to do it. VOICE: Will you be working with other avatars or masters in your project for your visio n of peace? GURURAJ: I don't know of them. Go and ask them yourself. VOICE: [Inaudible. Something about mergence.] GURURAJ: Where do you go from there? You go nowhere. Now this is a favorite word of mine. Take the W out of nowhere and shift it to the left, now what do you get? Now where. That's where you go. Now here. That's where you belong. Not nowhere. Now here. You know, Hitler went to a fortune teller to ask the fortune teller when he is going to die. So the fortune teller sits down , looks into the crystal, and says, "You will die on Jewish holiday. For the day you die will become a Jewish holiday. [Laughter] Next question. (Give some other people a chance too. You're monopolizing.) VOICE: Evolution tried to tell us that man came from the monkey family or some kind of sea creature or something like that. Do you agree with evolution? GURURAJ: Well, you do belong to the monkey family. I agree with you [slight laughter]. SAME VOICE: How did we come into the world? GURURAJ: [Laughing] [Same voice talking but Gururaj is

13. U S 82 - 51 nearer the mike] Yes. We do come from the ape stage. Right. But what science has not been able to prove, they're trying so hard to find the missing link, but t hey cannot find it and I tell you why they cannot find it. Because the missing link between ape and man does not exist on this dimension, on this three dimensional world. It exists in a different dimension. And that is where the missing link is, and I'v e seen it, by the way. VOICE: Well [????] you know God, will you tell us something about it? GURURAJ: Same question as before. I see God, I know God. There he is sitting with a pair of blue jeans and black shoes. Yeah. To know God is to recognize Him in everything around you. There's no separation. And even science will prove this to you now. I am sitting here and you are sitting there and you think there is empty space. There is not. There is subatomic particles that is connecting you to me, as we all are connected to each other in the entire universe. And the recognition of that is re cognizing the totality or the wholeness, the wholeness is nothing else but God. He's not someone sitting up there on a throne with a long beard, with a couple of d ozen bookkeepers: Oh John did this, and Jean did this, and James did this. Forget it. He's here and now. We want not a conceptual God, we want a living God. And we, by becoming integrated through our spiritual practices, we live God every moment of the day. Waking, sleeping or dreaming. VOICE: What is resurrection? GURURAJ: Resurrection, hm. Resurrection? That's it. Resurrection is very much the same as integration. Where you resurrect yourself, you reconstruct yourself into that wholeness. It i s not, as certain scriptures say, rising up from the dead to the heavens. You have to be resurrected. You think you are live, but you are dead. What we have to do is make ourselves awake, and that very awakening is resurrecting ourselves. Most people g o through life as the living dead. Because they lack the awareness of the totality of life. You're in good company: 99.999 percent are the living dead. You know, this immigrant from Italy to America had his child baptized. So he went to the minister. He says, "Look, two years ago I came to you and I asked you to name my child Tom and you baptized him as Thomas. Now another child is born which I'm going to bring to you to baptize and I want you to call him Jack, and not Jackass. [Laughter] Next ques tion, sir.

14. U S 82 - 51 VOICE: Does the love between, say a man and a woman, a husband and wife, does that have special significance? Is there something two people in love can do to help each other further along? GURURAJ: Oh yes. You can use any vehicle which you like on earth to reach a destination. You can go from Fargo to Chicago by donkey cart, or you can use a motor car or a jet plane. Fine. Now, if you can be an integrated person and find that Divinity in your own wife, you have reached very very far. The re's a poem I quoted last night at a talk I had where? [VOICE: Sioux City] Ah, I'll tell it to you in Persian because I know all of you understand Persian [Laughter]. I'll give a loose rendering in English, rather, ok. [VOICE: inaudible] [baby cryi ng] This chap knocked on the door of his beloved and she asked, "Who is it?" And he said, "I'm Lee." The door was not opened. The second night he went again and knocked on the door. And she asked, "Who is it?" And he says, "I'm Lee Swanson from Swanso n products." And the door was not opened. But on the third night when he went and knocked on the door and she asked, "Who is it?" He said, "I am thee, my beloved," and the door was immediately opened. So you see, that devotion to whoever, to your mother, father, wife, guru, it is not the personage only in question. But what brings out from you is the vital issue. The devotion. And that very devotion harmonizes you with Divinity. You see. Another joke here. This chap came home nicely tipsy. Drunk. An d his wife asked him, "Where were you coming home so drunk?" And he says, "I was with Mr. Wilson at the Grand Hotel." The next day this lady meets Mrs Wilson who happened to be a good friend of hers. And she asked Mrs. Wilson, "My husband and your husban d were out at the Grand Hotel last night." So she says, "No, they were not there at all. They were at the Tracadero." So when she got home she berated her husband and she said, "Why do you tell me a lie?" So the husband says, "I was in no condition to p ronounce the word `Trocadero.'" [Laughter]. Next question. VOICE: Can integration be achieved without meditation? GURURAJ: Can integration be achieved without meditation? No. Next question. Sir? VOICE: Yes. Do you feel creative science techniques like kriya yoga and the things like that? GURURAJ: We teach according to a person's needs. Now, as I explained, before when I use your photograph as a facial point and go into deep state of meditat ion, I would be able to see what your needs are, and if your needs are of kriya

15. U S 82 - 51 yoga, that is what you will get. In other words, if your needs are of ABC pills, you will not be getting XYZ pills. You'd b e getting what you require for your unfoldment. VO ICE: Is there any indication whether a person should get married with the divorce rate and everything is there any true indication in society or in the environment. [????] GURURAJ: Yes. When does a person get married? Not when they go to the reg istry office or to the church. That is just a piece of paper. Real marriage is when two hearts meet. It is not a matter of two pairs of eyes looking at each other, but the four eyes looking in the same direction. Do you see? So marriage is very necessa ry for a certain amount of stabilization in society. Now people get married for the wrong reasons. VOICE: [Inaudible] GURURAJ: Yea, we'll come to that. But many people get married for the wrong reasons. There could be a physical attraction. There cou ld be a mental attraction. Fine. They feel attracted. But the entirety of the spiritual self is left out or forgotten. And that is the reason I see why there is one divorce out of every three marriages. Yes. Marriage is a wonderful institution. Two people walk with four legs. But a true marriage is when the two people start walking with three legs. Huh? So joined to each other, infused in each other. That is the purpose, and that is what marriage should mean. Otherwise it's a miscarriage of the b eautiful word called marriage. Yea. VOICE: I have a question. GURURAJ: Yes, sir! You tried to ask something in the beginning, I know. VOICE: Will you expound somewhat on the marriage of the mind. GURURAJ: Marriage of the mind. Oh, then you must be mindless. SAME VOICE: The blending of the two parts of the mind the conscious and the subconscious and [???] akashic record.

16. U S 82 - 51 GURURAJ: Ah ha, yes, akashic records, yes. He's been reading books by Lobsang Rampa who's one of my pupils and people lik e that, huh? Yes. Your brain has two parts to it. You have the left hemisphere and the right hemisphere. The left hemisphere is mostly analytical and rationalistic, while the right hemisphere is the intuitional side of the brain and m ore connected to t he deeper levels of yourself. So doing our practices you would find a greater synaptic force occurring between the left hemisphere, the analytical level, and the intuitional level. Now when this takes place, then your brain would be able to portray or se nd forth more of your mind. The brain is only an organ. But the mind is something different. The mind is universal. There is only one mind, which I call the superconscious mind. Now you have individualized that superconscious one mind into categories which you call the subconscious mind and the conscious mind. Now, what is the subconscious mind? The subconscious mind is nothing else but a collection of impressions that are existing there. All different kinds of patternings, some superimposed upon th e other, which in turn reflects itself through the conscious mind and the conscious mind in turn interprets it through your five senses: hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, etc. So that is where the individualization comes in from the universalization from the universality of the mind. And that is why we have to learn spiritual practices so that we could lead the conscious mind into the subconscious mind and then merge it into the superconscious mind. That's the process. It's very simple, very simple. VOICE: When does one become aware of maya? GURURAJ: Maya [correcting speaker's pronunciation] M A Y A. That's a Sanskrit word which means illusion. VOICE: Then is the poss ibility of combining this consciousness, isn't it almost pointless? GURURAJ: I'm not in total agreement with the concept of maya. I defy the Vedantists who bring about this concept of mayo. Everything is real. Am I not real sitting here? [Tape Ends] ****END****


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