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3. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: That's it. If it was Budd ha you would not be...if you were Buddha, you would not be here now. Right. I'm talking of the masses: ninety nine point nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine percent of people. VOICE: But are there not fine shade s of that? Perhaps, not Buddhas or Christs, but still people... [GURURAJ INTERRUPTS] GURURAJ: Some people are more evolved, and some people are less evolved. As I'm sitting here and talking to you, I do not see any faces. I just see blobs of light. Some in greater intensity, and some more duller in intensity. VOICE: Colors? Do you see colors? GURURAJ: Um hm. VOICE: What color do you see around me? GURURAJ: [Listen to that talk about it?]. VOICE: Have you, kind of, reached the same stage of samadhi or enlightenment to Buddha [INAUDIBLE]? GURURAJ: That's a very personal question. And very impertinent. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: I would not talk of Divinity if I did not know Divinit y. I had a press conference in London about two years ago. And I told them I'm here to teach, to fill the churches and synagogues and mosques and temples and not to empty them. But please have your priests and pastors and reverends and rabbis. Let them be... let them have reached a certain stage in order to impart spiritual knowledge. But what do they do? They

4. U S 82 - 61 read from books. They have not experienced these things. When you ask them a question, then they quote you chapter and verse: ah, the Bible sa ys this; the Torah says this; the Gita says this. If I had my way, before a theological degree is given to a priest or a pastor, I would put him through a few years of meditation. Make him first experience what's he's talking about, or what he is going t o talk about. And that is why the churches are empty, and the discos are getting more and more fuller. VOICE: How do you explain the abrupt rise of psychology today? At the time of Bhagavad Gita there was no psychology. [INAUDIBLE] two hundred years ag o. GURURAJ: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, psychology was there. [INAUDIBLE] was the father of Eastern psychology: existed about five thousand years ago. It was there. VOICE: Yes, but was it the form we...? GURURAJ: And the rise...the rise of psychology toda y is because man wants to know more and more of what is described as the mind. That is why there is such a rise. Man has become dissatisfied in just believing. Those times two thousand years ago was okay for the peasants when Jesus said believe, believe, believe. Today, man wants to discover and uncover his own potential. Therefore, this arise in psychology. But yet I tell you that I can take a thousand psychologists and put them in my back pocket, because they have just barely dipped their toes in thi s vast ocean that we call the mind. VOICE: However, it seems to me that...do you mean that we are trying to give interpretation of the spiritual word, by materialistic means? GURURAJ: Yes. VOICE: Okay. GURURAJ: Yes. Yes. Yes. Very true, and that should be done.

6. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: Right. True. Derived from the Greek. VOICE: It sounds Greek, or Carpathian. GURURAJ: Yeah. VOICE: Okay. GURURAJ: And then through Greece... VOICE: Coined words, like pieces of machinery, denote exactly the materialistic approach to a spiritual world. GURURAJ: Yes, but why not the other way around? Take the spiritual approach to the material world instead of the material approach to the material world. [HE CHUCKLES]. VOICE: Yes, it seems as if we are trying to make the [logos?] ac tion. [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: Ah, but there's a secret there: how to find action in inaction, and inaction in action. That's a different subject altogether. VOICE: And the rest? GURURAJ: Hm? VOICE: And the point of rest. GURURAJ: Yes. Very tru e. Good. I think we've had nearly two hours. Okay, fine. I've got a lot of jokes here, damn it. Let's...last one here: mosquitoes. This mother and daughter did not agree with each other. (I believe they have a lot of mosquitoes around here during cert ain seasons.) So, the mother says, "Thou shalt not kill." The daughter replies, "Let us spray." [LAUGHTER] Good.

7. U S 82 - 61 It's so nice to have been with you. It's been a pleasure. It's a pity...this meeting was such short notice, so it was really not well adve rtised, or else I'm sure there would have been a much, much bigger crowd. Well, I've spoken to crowds of three people and thirty people and thirty thousand people at a time. It's nice to be in Boston [????]. Good. [THIS TALK ENDS AFTER SOME CHIT CHAT, AND ANOTHER STARTS IMMEDIATELY] [THIS IS PART OF ANOTHER SATSANG] GURURAJ: ...so the family became more and more together. When they became more and more together, and because of the force and power of the chant, this chap's desire for alcohol became less and less and less. And he stopped drinking. Up to today he has not touched a drink. Right. Now, look at the benefits. This man was taken away from his alcoholism, number one. His family came together, the hom e that was breaking up. And the money he made making the statuettes helped to pay all his debts, so he was not declared a bankrupt. And here the proceeds from the sale of the statuettes a school was built, a cultural center was built. Do you see the wide ranging effects? Now, people...they can have a drink, why not? You know. But moderation. To have a few drinks before a meal or as a nightcap, nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. But when it becomes abused, when it becomes a disease, the n that disease has to be cured. And I have found that spiritual practices contribute a great amount, even...you cannot cure alcoholism. Just because of this one friend, I think I must have read over twenty books on alcoholism, because I wanted to study w hat the whole problem is. And I did that. It helped him very much. It helped everyone concerned. And today doctors do agree that a person who is an alcoholic is not just a drunkard, he suffers an illness. There's a lack in him. So, if that lack is sub stituted by spiritual practices, then there won't be any lack any more. Just like that. Next. What is it...? Oh, twenty five to eleven. This chap was going to get married, so his friend asked, "What's happening? When are you getting married?" So, he says, "She won't marry me when I'm drunk, and I won't marry her when I'm sober." [LAUGHTER] Oh, well. I've got so many more here, you know, one liners. Next time. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE]

8. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: I recited that poem. Doctor [Mack?] is there. Did you l isten to it this afternoon? VOICE: [INAUDIBLE REPLY] GURURAJ: Yeah. We were traveling somewhere and on the car radio, and thank you Dr. Mack, it was very beautifully put over. Yes, I recited it. Yes, it was me. Sir? VOICE: How do you get rid of se lf guilt that may become self destructive? GURURAJ: Self guilt, yes. Do you know heart disease is not the biggest killer in the world? Cancer is not the biggest killer. But the biggest killer is guilt, where it gnaws at your entrails and kills you fro m inside. I've made a lot of tapes on this subject, on guilt. And I wouldn't be able to do justice to you explaining it in a few words, but you could definitely g et in touch with Mary Beth Nash and borrow a few tapes on this subject from her and listen t o them. You will definitely love them, I promise you. There are lots of tapes available. And, of course, Mary Beth is also the librarian of our tape library, and anything you nee d on any subject. There's a catalog on various subjects. And I think I'v e given thousands of talks throughout the world. They've estimated that if all the talks are put into book form, they'll make about fifty volumes of five hundred pages each. And it amounts up so quickly, you'd be surprised. One talk it fills twenty page s. Right. And you do three a day, sixty pages. So, in three days you've got a book. You see. It's all there, yes. And as a matter of fact we are busy on a project at the moment trying to get some books out. Some literature of mine. There are a few bo oks written on me. One is called The Path of Unfoldment by Savita Taylor, that's available. And there's one Jewels of Silence by Ted Partridge, that's available. But some of my stuff must also be published now. You know. And there are many ladies that are busy, you know, doing transcriptions of the talks. Which will, of course, have to be edited and put into book form; because there's a difference between the written word and the spoken word. For example, while speaking you might repeat a sentence tw ice for a certain kind of emphasis, while in the written word it would read stupidly. Well, friends, thank you very... Oh, sorry. You wanted... VOICE: I'm really fortunate to have [INAUDIBLE] psychic powers.

9. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: If you? VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: I never memorize them. If I had some with me, I would. But I've made a tape. Who's this famous folk and country singer in America? VOICE: Kenny Rogers. GURURAJ: Kenny Rogers, yes. From Las Vegas when I was going to Los Angeles, they had a car pick me up in Los Angeles to take me to his studio to do a tape on poetry. And if you want a copy Mary Beth. Oh, by the way, we've promised a copy to Dr. Mack. He must be given one with my personal compliments, as a gift. VOICE: [INAUDIBLE] publi shed? GURURAJ: We are busy with a volume. I've got a wonderful artist in Spain, and every poem is to...he is busy illustrating them. And every poem will be illustrated. In other words, on this side of the page, illustration; and on that side of the pag e, poem. About a hundred illustrations, a hundred poems. So, the Spanish artist is busy. He's a brilliant artist. And you've seen some of his work. I brought one of his drawings to America on my last trip. Yeah, that was a few months ago. December? December? Yeah. December. Well, thank you very, very much. It has been a privilege and a joy and a pleasure to me to be with you all. May God bless you. Keep well. Take care. And find your inner self, and all else will be added unto you, including poe try. [HE LAUGHS]. [SESSION ENDS] [RADIO INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE NORMAN, AT KSCJ, SIOUX CITY, IOWA.] INTERVIEWER: And you became king because your guru died? GURURAJ: No, my guru gave me the title.

10. U S 82 - 61 INTERVIEWER: His name was? GURURAJ: Swami Pavitranandaji. INTERVIEWER: And that means? GURURAJ: He that finds bliss in purity. That's what it means. And he gave me the title. So. So, once you enter the spiritual path, you are away from your past life, or the experiences of yo ur past life. In other words, you are reborn into a different form of life. INTERVIEWER: Did you have a name before it was Gururaj Ananda Yogi? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. [SAYS GIVEN NAME IN FULL.] INTERVIEWER: [WHISTLES] GURURAJ: That's a mouth full. INT ERVIEWER: Yes, sir. But you've never had a normal name though. An Indian name or an African name? A surname. GURURAJ: [Puroshotam?] does, a first name. A second name [INAUDIBLE]. And surname, Valodia. INTERVIEWER: I think we've found a call. GUR URAJ: Valodia is a name very easy to remember. It rhymes with hallo to ya. Valodia, hallo to ya. INTERVIEWER: Hallo to ya, huh? GURURAJ: Yeah.

11. U S 82 - 61 INTERVIEWER: We have a phone call, Gururaj. Let's talk to them. GURURAJ: Good. INTERVIEWER: Hello. You're on Drive Time. CALLER: I'd like to know how he's financed. INTERVIEWER: Where do you get money? GURURAJ: Oh, dear me God. I don't know where my next meal is coming from. INTERVIEWER: [???] broke too. GURURAJ: Yah, I'm damn broke too. CALLER: [BREAKING IN] [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Yeah, carry on, Girl. CALLER: [INAUDIBLE] in that way, I liked his philosophy in some ways. I was just wondering how you were financed. GURURAJ: No, I depend entirely upon what God sen ds to me at any moment of the day. Many nights... INTERVIEWER: [INTERRUPTING] [INAUDIBLE]. How do you get legal tender? GURURAJ: I don't understand that American expression. What do you mean? INTERVIEWER: Dollars. Money.

12. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: No, they send me a ticket and come down and talk to people. That's all. CALLER: Who? GURURAJ: Who? The meditators in Sioux City get together and buy a ticket for me. And they send it to me. And the meditators here are so kind, they provide me with every comfort that would be required perhaps: food, bed, shelter. That's all. CALLER: W ell, that's beautiful. Well, God bless you. It's very interesting. GURURAJ: Well, listen...what's your name? CALLER: [?????] Henry. GURURAJ: You don't need to say... INTERVIEWER: We offer complete anonymity. GURURAJ: Oh, I see. Nevertheless, nevertheless, I am giving a lecture tonight, and why don't you come to it. Perhaps, our good friend, George, here will just give it out. INTERVIEWER: Oh, you can't... Wait a minute. CALLER: That's very kind of you, but I don't have a car and I don't drive. But I was listening to the program and I think it's very interesting. GURURAJ: Um hm. INTERVIEWER: Gururaj will be at the Morningside Campus at eight o'clock tonight, at Lincoln Center Auditorium. CALLER: Well, thank you very much.

13. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: If you can come, or bum a lift, please do. CALLER: Well, say a prayer for me. GURURAJ: I'd love to meet you. CALLER: Well, thank you very much. GURURAJ: And if you have...if you have... [SHUSHES CALLER AND INTERVIEWER] Hold on. And if you have any personal problem, please come up to me. I'm the most approachable guru you could ever find. INTERVIEWER: How about if she has a personal problem r ight now? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. INTERVIEWER: Could you solve a problem right now for her, just to give her a taste? GURURAJ: It depends upon the nature of her problem. INTERVIEWER: Come on. Come on. Let's give her a break. [INAUDIBLE] GURURAJ: Oka y, what's your problem, girl? CALLER: I have a cousin who's very sick. GURURAJ: You have a what? CALLER: Cousin. GURURAJ: Oh, a...just?

14. U S 82 - 61 INTERVIEWER: Cousin. GURURAJ: A cousin. INTERVIEWER: She's related to somebody who's sick. Sickness in the family. GURURAJ: Cousin is very sick now. Right. Sickness in the family. Do this now, immediately. It's a pity I haven't got a photograph of your cousin that I could meditate on and send healing energies. But nevertheless, try and visualize, for this moment, take it very slowly. Sit back. Are you sitting down, or standing up? CALLER: Standing. GURURAJ: Why don't you sit down, love? CALLER: [????]? GURURAJ: Just sit down. CALLER: Yes. GURURAJ: Relax. Pull off your shoes. CALLER: Yes, sir. GURURAJ: Unloosen your collar. Take off your pants. Whatever you want to do. Just sit and relax. Okay. Fine. [LAUGHTER IN BACKGROUND] INTERVIEWER: We can't tell people to t ake off their pants on the radio. I'm sorry.

15. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. But, no, the point I'm driving is this, just be comfortable. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. GURURAJ: Right. Okay? You comfortable there now? CALLER: Um hm. GURURAJ: Now, listen to me very carefully. Very carefully you're listening to my voice. CALLER: Yes. GURURAJ: Right. You're listening to my voice...you don't need to answer. You're listening to my voice. Now, through this voice to you I am conveyi ng a spiritual energy. Do you feel it? You will feel calmer and calmer. Do you feel more calmer now listening to my voice? CALLER: Yes. GURURAJ: Now, if you should put it in percentage wise, do you think you are feeling fifty percent, sixty percent, seventy percent, eighty percent more calmer? CALLER: Yes, sir. GURURAJ: Hm? CALLER: I think she's going to feel better. GURURAJ: You feel better, right. Percentage wise how much would you put it down at? I think it's about seventy, listening to the change in your voice. Am I right? CALLER: Oh, yes.

16. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: Yes, right. CALLER: Oh, God bless her. I want her... GURURAJ: Well, you better come and get a lift, and come and see me this evening. Nevertheless... Now, you are sitting there you are feeling very calm and relaxed. You're feeling seventy percent more calmer before you picked up the phone. Now, close yo ur eyes. Close your eyes. CALLER: Yes. GURURAJ: Ah, they're closed. Good. Now, take your attention to your breathing. You are breathing. Your attention is taken to the breathing. Say something to me now. Have you taken your attention to your breat hing? CALLER: [SLOWLY] Yes. GURURAJ: Good. Fine. From your very voice I could detect that your breathing much more slower now. Is that true? CALLER: [SLOWER] Yes. GURURAJ: Your breathing has slowed down a lot. Now...okay. It is slowing down more. Now, you picture your cousin in your mind. Picture your cousin in your mind. CALLER: Yes. GURURAJ: And he is covered with a blue haze around him. Do you know what the problem is of your cousin? What kind of sickness... CALLER: Not breathing good.

17. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: He is not breathing good. Right. Fine. Therefore, I started...I sensed that. Therefore, I started you off on breathing slowly. Right. Now, you hasten the rate of breathing. Your rate of breathing. And as you are visualizing your cou sin, see him breathing normally. See him breathing normally. He is breathing normally. Have that visualization in your mind. The reason I want you to visualize him clearly in your mind is so that your energies are focused onto him, and you are sending forth those healing energies to him. CALLER: Her. GURURAJ: Her, or whatever. Right. Does not matter. To me there is one soul, it could be male or female, does not matter. You are sending those healing thoughts to her. You are picturing her in you r mind covered in a healing blue haze. Now, phone her now, after you put this phone down. Ask her how she is feeling, and she will tell you she is feeling so, so much better. And if you wish, you could phone us back at this station to tell us what she h as replied to you. Okay, love. Keep well. God bless. And if you can come to the Lincoln Center, at Morningside, at eight o'clock tonight, you'd be most welcome. Just come up to me. Just touch my hands, and you will experience something which your mind will not understand, but immediately your heart will grasp. God bless, then. Good bye. CALLER: Thank you. GURURAJ: Keep well. INTERVIEWER: We'll be right back. [COMMERCIALS] INTERVIEWER: Gururaj Ananda Yogi is on the air here with George Norman here at Drive Time Live at KSCJ. Got another phone call. This person has been so patient, I hope they're still here. Are you still there? CALLER: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Hello. You're on Drive Time.

18. U S 82 - 61 CALLER: Yes. While I waited so long I forgot what I was going to say, really. But... INTERVIEWER: Well, time is money. CALLER: Well, the guru, how much do you pay your shills? Like the lady that was just talking a little while ago. INTERVIEWER: How much money does he make? CALLER: Does he pay his shills to call in and, you know? INTERVIEWER: How much what? CALLER: How much money does he pay his shills? His dummies to call in and [INTERVIEWER INTERRUPTS] INTERVIEWER: Oh, o h, oh, I see what you're getting at. That phone call before? GURURAJ: What does it mean, now? I can't understand Americanese. CALLER: We have reached a low in...a new low in... [INTERVIEWER INTERRUPTS] INTERVIEWER: Can I explain to the man what you were talking about, first? CALLER: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Alright, hang on a minute. She is saying the phone call before her was set up by somebody you know, somebody you've seen before, somebody you have had a relationship with, somebody you work with, somebody you play with. GURURAJ: No.

19. U S 82 - 61 INTERVIEWER: The caller here is suggesting that that phone call with the cousin who is sick with the breathing problem was all set up. GURURAJ: No, no, no, no, no, no. How can people assume that? That shows such a fragmentation. I wonder if this woman that is speaking now hasn't got a tot of Scotch in her? INTERVIEWER: Have you been drinking, ma'am? CALLER: No, I haven't. GURURAJ: Oh, good. Good for you. CALLER : I haven't. GURURAJ: Yeah, but do not have false assumptions. CALLER: I drank water. GURURAJ: Oh, yes, [INAUDIBLE]. CALLER: Hello. GURURAJ: But do not assume things which you are not sure of. And all the miseries and sufferings in your life at the present moment...and while I'm speaking to you, I could actually... CALLER: I can't hear you. GURURAJ: As I'm speaking to you I cou ld actually see...

20. U S 82 - 61 CALLER: I don't turn my radio up, because that will interfere. INTERVIEWER: Listen to your phone. That's what the phone is for, ma'am. GURURAJ: Right. Look, as I'm speaking... CALLER: I can't hear it. INTERVIEWER: Well, good bye. This is a lady that calls up a lot, can't hear; and it's a problem at her end, I think. She calls the program a lot. And sh e has trouble hearing a lot, which is no problem. Could you fix that? Could you? GURURAJ: Oh, yes. If she comes... INTERV IEWER: She calls the program a lot, and she can never hear exactly the responses to her questions. GURURAJ: No, look, I'll give you one example. INTERVIEWER: Maybe we could help her out. GURURAJ: Yeah, we could help her out. Look, and now during last month I had a four day program with The Institute of Metaphysical Research, where there were a group of psychologists and what have you, you know, people of the medical profession, and I did some healings. And there was one woman there that could not hear for twenty years. INTERVIEWER: Did she use anything? GURURAJ: Hm? INTERVIEWER: Is she using anything...

21. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: A hearing aid. She used a hearing aid, but it was very bad. It was a very powerful hearing aid. And with just two half an hour sessions, she could start hearing. I said, "What are you going to do with the hearing aid now?" So she says, "I'm going to frame it." She could hear. So, this person that keeps on calling, that can't hear, if she would come and s ee me at any time tonight, after my lecture at Morningside, Lincoln Center; then I would be able to do a healing on her. And it won't cost her anything. INTERVIEWER: Free? You're going to fix this lady's ear for nothing? GURURAJ: Yes. Oh, definitely . I don't charge money. INTERVIEWER: It doesn't cost anything to come and see you tonight? GURURAJ: It doesn't cost anything at all, but I think these people are charging three dollars fifty, and two dollars for senior citizens just to cover the cost of the hall and the publicity and the phone calls and what else there is attached to it. INTERVIEWER: Well, yeah. That money [to?] get in. GURURAJ: That's understood. That's understood. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: So, it does cost money to come see you. GURURAJ: Well, look, these people that are organizing the program here, I mean, they had to hire the hall. Where does that come from? They had to make so many phone calls. They had to put out leaflets, handbills, or flyers as you call them here in Amer ica. And they have to do a lot of other things to let people know that Gururaj Ananda Yogi is here in Sioux City to speak to you. So, now this is to cover the costs. INTERVIEWER: Now in America...

22. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: Or otherwise I could have the tickets at a hu ndred dollars each and make a profit. INTERVIEWER: Getting back, if you don't mind, to Maharishi. He tried to give away his knowledge. It didn't work. He justified... GURURAJ: Maharishi, although he is a great friend of mine, he gives away acquire d knowledge. I do not. I give experienced wisdom. There's a great difference between acquired knowledge and wisdom. One comes from a lot of reading, like a university professor, for example, that studied every philosophy in the world to become a profes sor of philosophy; yet I find some of them more confused. So, that is acquired knowledge. Wisdom is something that flows from deep within you, when you have reached that integrated state where you don't even allow the mind to function, you allow the hear t to operate, the core of your personality to operate, and you allow that to pour out. For example, I never prepare a lecture. Like tonight when you will see me at the hall, if you are coming, you are coming, George, aren't you? Right. You will see me s tarting off saying, "Right, what shall we speak about tonight?" And then you ask a question and I'll speak on it for an hour, hour and a half, two hours, whatever it requires. And then, of course, tonight I'll be doing something else as well. INTERVIEWE R: But what do people learn from that experience, do you think? GURURAJ: People can pick up according to their own ability. Now, if your sense of smell is very acute, you will smell more of the fragrance of the flower. If your sense of smell is not so acute, you'd pick up less of the fragrance. INTERVIEWER: Why can't we all have the same smell? GURURAJ: Because everyone is a unique being. Everyone is subject to his own personal, psychological patternings, which causes its reaction through the cons cious mind, and then to the senses. INTERVIEWER: There's a reason why we all hear music differently? See people differently? Smell differently? GURURAJ: That is [??????]. And see situations differently. You know, there's a very favorite saying of mi ne, "Two men behind prison bars, one saw mud, the other saw stars." Two people in the same circumstances, and yet one could see

23. U S 82 - 61 the glory, the other sees the gloom. Why? It is because of your own patterning. And that is what I am trying to straighten o ut. And that is my message to the world. [END SIDE ONE] ...are more integrated, so you could appreciate the Creator and the creation. INTERVIEWER: You travel throughout the world. What do you do, lecture only? Do you ever have a good time? Do you ever go out, get drunk, dance. GURURAJ: Oh, no. INTERVIEWER: I'm sorry. GURURAJ: I don't go dancing or this that. But, you know, the meditators are so kind that they see that Gururaj needs a rest, and they'd organize a program where they would take me to see a play, or to listen to a concert, or to go and see ballet. INTERVIEWER: So, you get around. GURURAJ: I do get around, yes. And I do traveling about seven, eight months out of the year, more or less. INTERVIEWER: Do you teach meditation? GURURAJ: I teach the methods of meditation. I've got teachers throughout the world in various countries. And the umbrella name which we operate under is The International Foundation For Spiritual Unfoldment. But in every country, a different name is given. In America it's The American Meditation Society. INTERVIEWER: They're all united together?

24. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: All united together. In Amer ica it's The American Meditation Society. In Britain it's The British Meditation Society. In Denmark, The Danish Meditation. In Spain, The Spanish... INTERVIEWER: [INTERRUPTING] If I meditate with a mantra, or with a candle and hypnotize myself, or whatever method I use, what's going to be different about my meditation than yours? GURURAJ: Who is talking of hypnotism? You, not I. INTERVIEWER: Ah, meditation and hypnotism is usually thrown in to the self awareness [????]. GURURAJ: Definitely not! Hypnotism is an anesthetic, where meditation is becoming more aware. So, you know, to become, you know... INTERVIEWER: [INTERRUPTING] You meditate every day? GURURAJ: Who me? INTERVIEWER: Yes. GURURAJ: Twenty four hour s of the day to me is a meditation. INTERVIEWER: You're meditating now? GURURAJ: Even speaking to you here now is a meditation to me, because I'm not speaking to you from my mind. I'm allowing something deeper within to flow through to your audience. INTERVIEWER: This is Gururaj Ananda Yogi, and I don't know quite yet what to say, how to call it. A lecture tonight? Is that how we refer to what's happening? GURURAJ: We call it a satsang: "In the company of the holy."

25. U S 82 - 61 INTERVIEWER: Alright. And i t's at eight o'clock at Lincoln Center Auditorium, in the Morningside College campus. And you help people with physical problems, mental problems, spiritual problems... GURURAJ: Physical problems, mental problems, spiritual problems. And you got to deal with it holistically. I remember having... INTERVIEWER: We only have a few seconds. GURURAJ: I remember being invited to a symposium on holistic health in Las Vegas, about two years ago. And what I told them was this, that doctors, please don't trea t patients physically or mentally either, but treat them holistically. That's what I do. INTERVIEWER: Good luck in your venture, sir. Welcome to Sioux City, Iowa. Good luck tonight. GURURAJ: Oh, I'm so happy to be here. I don't need luck. INTERVIEWER: Okay. GURURAJ: I create it. INTERVIEWER: Then I take it back. GURURAJ: Thank you. INTERVIEWER: Right out the door. [RADIO INTERVIEW ENDS] [THE REST OF THE TAPE SOUNDS LIKE THE RADIO INTERVIEW IN REVERSE.]

1. U S 82 - 61 BOSTON THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY #2 GURURAJ: People come up with all kinds of theories. What I teach of is experience. I want you to experience Divinity. I want you to gradually become more and more happier and happier and happier. I do not promise you self realization, for the word itse lf explains: self realization must be realized by yourself. I show you the path, but you have to walk on it with your own feet. VOICE: Exactly what Christ said. GURURAJ: I do not shine the light upon you. I shine the light upon the path, so that you don't stumble and fall. I'm the railing on the stairway that you could hold onto climbing up the stairs. BALDEV: On a little lighter note, you said that there's no hierarchy. And being from Washington and being amongst the bureaucrats, the [Uransha?] b ooks and the [Uransha?] transmissions, reported transmissions, of spiritual bureaucracy and hierarchy would also be included in that statement, because it gives me chills to think that we have a bureaucracy on the other side. GURURAJ: It's a tragedy. Bu reaucracy in the name...[CHELA INTERRUPTS] Bureaucracy in the name of democracy. Yeah, it is so. It is so. It's a good observation. Do you know last year I believe there were thirty thousand Ph.D.'s awarded in America. I'm wondering where they're goin g to find so many cabs to drive? [LAUGHTER] And, of course, there's another Ph.D.'s that got their Ph.D.'s, which really means [pause?], health, and donations. You know, this lawyer won a case in court, and the client refused to pay the fees. So, he went to the judge. So, the judge asked him, "If he refused to pay the fees, what did you do?" He said, "I sent him a formal letter." Right. "What was the reply?" He says the client says, "Go to Hell." He said, "And then what did you do?" He said, "Well, I came straight to you." [LAUGHTER] Five past ten? Another then minutes, then we'll call it a day? VOICE: Sometimes in meditation I have the experience of floating inside my body. That's about the best way I can describe it. It's very pleasant. Is th at moving in the direction of samadhi?

2. U S 82 - 61 GURURAJ: Not necessarily. Not necessarily. It could be the mind playing tricks with you. VOICE: I see. [INAUDIBLE]. GURURAJ: Many people do hallucinate. Yeah, [INTERRUPTED BY CHELA] VOICE: No, it's not a hallucination like that, it's a very, very peaceful and calm... [GURURAJ INTERRUPTS] GURURAJ: Your Ph.D.'s in what? VOICE: Psychology. GURURAJ: Psychology. So you would know that we can, you know, formulate certain ideas which could not be valid, really. These experiences are good. They are encouragements. They are like signposts on the road. And you must continue. But still I main tain that if spiritual practices are personally prescribed for the individual, for no two people are alike, then they would be more effective; instead of the trial and, you know, trial and error method. More effective. VOICE: But if the whole object is to align...intuitively, with whatever potential is there, to unfold that, isn't that, in the final analysis, done only by the individual himself? GURURAJ: Yes, it's done by the individual himself, but you need a guide in how to do it. Any trade you want to learn... VOICE: But who was Buddha's guide, or Jesus' guide? GURURAJ: They were born highly evolved. They are incarnations who didn't need guides. VOICE: Okay, so you're speaking for the average individual?

5. U S 82 - 61 VOICE: It should be done? GURURAJ: Yes, it should be done; for whatever you call material to me is spiritual. Because spirituality can be fused into materiality. For is Divinity not omni present? So, it's good. That's good. Researches must go on...research must go on. Especially for world peace. VOICE: [It's already peace?]. GURURAJ: Peace on an individual basis, yes. Collective basis, we don't know. But people can be made to thin k differently. They can be made to think differently. But there are so many forces that be that even if people start thinking differently, how amenable will those forces be? Because the entire world is ruled by nothing but economics. That is, everythin g is based upon economics. Money, money, money, money, money. VOICE: You mean a specific arrangement of very, very heavy inertia? GURURAJ: There's a very heavy inertia. There is. VOICE: Economics, actually, it's a heavily extorted, ah... GURURAJ: Concept. VOICE: ...concept, exactly. GURURAJ: Very true. VOICE: Economy...economics in the original language actually meant "divine arrangement." GURURAJ: Divine arrangement. VOICE: Arrangement.

26. U S 82 - 61 **** END ****

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