3. U S 83 - 22 Chela: In other words, the children follow the adult lead. They follow the adults. GR.: Yeah, they just. Yeah, that's all. They don't understand a word. Chela: Why do we chant Sanskrit chants then, instead of in English? GR.: The? No, this is for sound value. Because the se sounds heightens the vibrations. This has nothing to do with meaning at all. They are seed letters from which the Sanskrit language was formed. And Sanskrit is the mother of all languages. Sanskrit was conceived by sages who would actually sit at an object and hear the sounds, the vibration of the object. For everything is vibrating. Everything is sound. And so therefore, they took the sound which they heard meditating on the object, and that formulated the word. So it could be regarded as the pu rest language in the world. The other thing about that chant is the duration, where just the proper amount of exhalation takes place in a controlled way. If you exhale properly, you inhale properly automatically. So the hardest part is the exhalation. Aim hrim krim chamunda ye vi che che. [See?] It's exhalation, getting rid of toxins from your system, and at the same time creating a rhythm in your physical body, which in turn reflects in your mental self, where your mind, too, becomes rhythmic. In o ther words, harmonious, and when the mind becomes harmonious, you feel the peace of the mind. But we are talking of prayers, contemplative prayers, where you have to contemplate the meaning of words. So why they should be in languages that a person does n ot understand beats me. About fifteen years ago I started a Sunday school in Cape Town -- eighteen years ago -- for little children. And now at the present moment, we have an attendance of about a hundred and fifty children. And I took a Sanskrit book and I had one or two people helping me, and these being Gujarati speaking people, had all those prayers done in Gujarati, so they could understand what they were praying about. There sound plays no part there. That is contemplation. You have concentration, c ontemplation, and meditation. But in contemplation you've got to be able to understand what you are saying. In meditation only the power of the sound is used. Chela: Also you were saying about not praying for yourself. Being selfless. Now, would that mean that with him being ill, as he has, that if he prays for himself, it wouldn't help him? GR.: It would. It would help him to a certain extent. It would help him bring greater calmness in the mind. Or develop more faith within himself. Or feel that there is a power greater than me...will understand the power of thought that my

4. U S 83 - 22 thoughts can transform my entire body. I'll give you my example. I always sp eak from experience, never from books. I had an open heart operation eight years ago, hmm? I have cancer, right, and I'm a severe sugar diabetic. I've got to take a shot of insulin every day. And yet, I am strong as a bull. Still traveling around the world for seven, eight months out of a year, living out of a suitcase, every few days change of bed. And you just about get used to a bed and you change it, hmm? Right. Five star food, but not food that I'm really used to. Change of water, climate, hm m? And yet I carry on and on. And the doctors are even amazed. As a matter of fact, my son went to see my specialist. You know, being friends. People that I meet I always make friends with. Because you never know when you need them. If I need them dur ing the middle of the night, they'll come running, as I go running during the middle of the night to people who need me. So my son went to ask Professor Marine and Professor Beck and Christian Barnard -- you must have heard that name the man that performed the first heart transplant, yeah. And asked him -- they said, "It's just surprising... we don't know how your dad lives." They don't know of spiritual force. They don't know that man has the ability to extend his life indefinitely. And especially more so for a self - realized man. A self - realized man never dies. He just sheds his body at will. I've died hundreds and hundreds and thousands of times by will, hmm? And this has been tested by medical people. Where they felt no heartbeat, nothing. No breat hing, nothing. And then brought myself back into this body again. Simple thing. You can do it too. [laughter] Q. If you want to use your powers to benefit yourself. That is, you do not. You told us it would be wrong for you to do this. GR. Yah. Q. Is it wrong for us to do healing practices... GR. For who? Q. for ourselves. For us to worry about our ... GR. Yeah. Yah. For you are still involved in the ego. It's O.K. It won't do you much harm. I can't. If I do anything t o hea l myself...the saying, "Physician, heal thyself" is a fallacy. It applies to a very low level. As soon as I attach any importance to this body, the spiritual flow will stop. So a person has to be practically egoless. And that is why you find

5. U S 83 - 22 great maste rs like Ramakrishna, and Raman Maharshi and Vivekananda. They were very sickly. Quite a few of them had asthma and cancer and all these things, yeah. And the reason why they developed these things is very simple also. They give so much of their inner s elves, the spiritual self, that the body is not strong enough to be able to stand the spiritual force pouring out of them all the time. That is the reason. So the physical organs get worn out quicker. So it i s good to pray for oneself, but let the praye r not be wishful thinking, hmm? You see? Not "I wish I was well in this." No. You pray, "I am well, and I'm feeling better day by day." And you unpattern the thoughts of sickness into thoughts of health. It's just undoing one pattern and creating anot her pattern in the mind. And this has been experimented upon so so much. I think I mentioned this to you before somewhere else that [Emile Coe?] started a clinic in France that was his first clinic. And the only treatment that was given was this, that t he person, when he wakes up in the morning, he repeats to himself, "I am feeling better and better day by day." And the same process for fifteen minutes, half an hour at night, "I am feeling better day by day." So everything the body undergoes is but a pa tterning of the mind. Self - realized people do not need the patterning. But their sufferings come to them because of the patternings of the minds of other people. Because the sufferings of others they regard to be their own personal suffering. And they actually take on sufferings. Vidya has witnessed this many, many times. I had here just two days ago a person was so mixed up nothing could just come right for him. And I examined him and I found that the vortexes of energies within him were all so scre wed up that I had to do this here. I couldn't say no. But for twenty - four hours, this entire hand was paining. She knows about that. How, in taking away someone's deafness I had severe pains through my ears for a few days. Q. From taking away somebody else's pains? GR. Mmm hmm. It has to go somewhere. One thing I know that that person won't be able to shake it off in a lifetime, while I could shake it off in twenty - four hours. But still it affects the body, the body's not make of iron. And ye t, if it was made of iron, it would still wear out. Yeah. Next. Well, it's a joy. It's a joy. It's a joy. For what else is life wor th, if it is not a sacrifice for your brother man. Then life is worth nothing. And especially if you are born with those tendencies of helping. Especially if you have taken on this body for that purpose, then you've got to perform your dharma, or else you'll be untrue to yourself. Chela: That answered my question. GR.: Huh?

6. U S 83 - 22 Chela: I said that answered my question. GR.: Yeah. Chela: I understand it now. Q: Would there be any practices to help you stay within the awareness of the present moment? GR. That will dawn on you by itself by being regular with the practices you were already given. Because when you transcend the mind, you enter the turiya state -- the state of timelessness and spacelessness. That is the moment. Another practice which wou ld help you be in the moment is watching the gap. You know that practice, hmm? As a matter of fact, all of you can start doing it really. Between each in - breath and out - breath, there is a gap. Find that gap, and you are totally centered within yourself, totally centered. Totally centered means you have found union with your individual self, the individual self with the universal self in that moment of centering -- pinpoint centering. So there definitely is a gap between the in - breath and the out - breath. You may feel the gap here at the throat level, or you might feel the gap at the navel level, hmm? You will. And then, people don't even know how to breathe. They breathe so wrongly. I think I've given you a demonstration, haven't I, on how one breath es. No? I will show you now. When you breathe in...here, take it. So they'll be able to see me. When you breathe in, you take in the breath to the abdomen, and then you push that breath up as much as you can to fill the pulmonary system -- the lungs. An d then you breathe out. Watch, you see? And then it becomes second nature to you, where you will just automatically keep on breathing like that. See? See, the stomach extends? [breathing] See? In the stomach first, and then the breath is pushed up. You know, I love smoking a cigarette. Good. There are some reasons for it. Firstly, I enjoy it, hm? And secondly, it keeps me grounded, or else I tend to float off into samadhi or meditation all the time. But I've got work to do. I' ve got to have my feet planted in this world. It's like the story I've told you once before, I think, where a guru was going to be away for six months, and he left one of his chelas in charge of the garden. So the chela thought, "I'm going to make it a perfect garden. Absolutely matchless. So the months went by. Six months went by, the guru returned, and he saw this beautiful garden. The first the guru did was he went to the dust bin and took out a lot of garbage and strew it around, hmm? The chela was amazed. That , Guruji, how can you do this? Six months I've been at it. Night and day practically, so to speak, hmm? So the guru tells the chela, "It's no good to be too perfect. Hmm? Or else you can't live in this world." Now, the point I was trying to make is this, that, for those reasons, I like my smoking. Right. It keeps me grounded. But the beauty

7. U S 83 - 22 is this: that once a month I've got to go to the hospital when I'm in Cape Town for a general examination. Because of the heart and the sugar and all that bus iness, I've got to go to the hospital, and they give you a general examination. And they are so surprised to find that my lungs are as clear as a newborn baby's lungs. Why? Proper breathing. And then I do my pranayam's every morning. And the pranayam which is very very good to clear your lungs is the bastric pranayama. Bastric pranayama is the one which you, like a dog panting [pants]. Later, you will start feeling a pressure there. You know, and you'll get rid of toxins. Q. Would that be dangerou s at all for us to do that too often? GR. You don't do it... Q. Is that completely safe? GR. It is, yeah, you don't do it too often because you could hyperventilate yourself. That is what they do in rebirthing, which is a whole lot of rubbish, hmm? Rebirthing takes place in the heart. That's where you're reborn. Q. How often should a person do that, then? Every day? GR. You could do that every day for about ten minutes in the morning, ten minutes in the evening, or even less. You, yo u don't, you don't over - exert yourself in any of these practices. They're all very simple. Q. [unintelligible]...for your heart? GR. No. No. No. In all practices, you only do according to your limits. You don't over strain yourself in anything. Next? You know, this lady went out to do shopping at the supermarket. Now her husband had been out with Mrs. Wilson's husband the previous evening. And when he came home, the wife asked, "Where were you tonight?" He says, "We were at the Grand Hotel. " So, but, when Mrs. Jones met Mrs. Wilson the next day, and she said that, "Well, my husband was out with your husband last night." She says, "Yes, they were out having a good time together. They went to the Truckadero Hotel." So when the wife gets home, she scolds the husband. She says, "Why did you tell me a lie? Why

8. U S 83 - 22 did you tell me you went to the Grand Hotel when you actually went to the Truckadero?" Hmm? So the husband replies, "Last night I was in no condition to pronounce "Truckadero". [l aughter] This senior doctor was getting old and he needed a partner in his practice, because he had a large practice, so he hired a younger man. Yes, after hiring the younger man in his practice, gave him a partnership. Good. He had to take him around h im, introducing him to the patients -- the clients. So they went first to Mrs. Goodbody. So, naturally, what doctors do, they put a thermos...thermometer, yeah, into the mouth. And as he was taking out the thermometer, it slipped from the senior doctor's hand and it fell on the floor. So the senior doctor bent down and picked up the thermometer. And, as he left, he told Mrs. Goodbody that, "You must desist from eating chocolates. If you stop eating chocolates, it will expedite your recovery." Fine. So , after they left the house, the younger doctor asked, "Why did you mention chocolates? "What is the reason for it?" So, uh, this fellow replies. This senior doctor, he says, "When I bent down to pick up the thermometer, I found a lot of chocolate wrapp ings under the bed." So after that they went to Mrs. Loveday. It was the junior doctor's turn to examine Mrs. Loveday. And, of course, as usual, the thermometer, hm? So he, too, by chance as he took out the thermometer, it slipped out of his hand and went under the bed. So he bent down to pick up the thermometer. Fine. And his parting words to Mrs. Loveday was, "You must not be too close to the church." Hmm? So, when they left -- when they left the house, the senior doctor asked. He said, "Why di d you have to bring the church into the picture? Hmm?" So the junior doctor replied, "Because, when I bent down to pick up the thermometer, I saw the vicar." [laughter] SUJAY: Bapuji, I think this gentleman has a question. GR. Ah, yes. Q. I heard you say on a couple of occasions that Jesus was the greatest man who ever lived. GR. Hmm. One of the greatest. Q. One of the greatest. Why? And does it have anything to do with what you were talking about before, with the phrase, "J esus died for our sins"? Does that have anything to do with what you were talking about before -- the master taking on the...

9. U S 83 - 22 GR. It has, it has something to do with that, yes. But not completely so. "Jesus died for our sins" is more to be interpreted in the way that he showed people the path to sinlessness. And he had to die for it -- showing that path. Because he was the most despised man. His own people never liked him -- the Jews. The Sanhedrins never liked him, the Zealots did not like him. The Ro mans felt him to be a threat because he was not only was a religious teacher, but also a political rebel. He tried very hard to unite all the factions that were in Jerusalem at that time. All those tribes -- he tried to unite them, hm. And that is what th e Romans feared so much. That if he united all these tribes into a oneness, then they would overthrow the Roman rule. You see. He was a most despised man. And yet, his message that he left behind is still as powerful today as it was two thousand years a go. Good. Oh, I thought you were putting out your hand. You're doing a stitch. Ah. [laughs] [unintelligible]...hands. Q. But why then does our church go to such great pains, at many times, many of our religious teachers, to make us think that Jesus w as not accepted by the Jews because he had no plans to change the government structure in his country. That he preached only love. [GR. uh, huh] And that one of the reasons he was crucified and his people didn't accept him was because they, like the Ze alots, wanted him to raise power and get the Romans out of the Jewish... [unintelligible] GR. That is very true. But let me tell you, the Bible we see today is not the real Bible. In 342 A.D., the Council of Nice ne, when all these cardinals and bisho ps and archbishops got together to formalize Christianity a lot of the things that should have been in the Bible have been left out. Reincarnation, for example. There is a book just called "Reincarnation." The name of the author is Hodson. And he prove s it in there how a lot of the things have been left out. The most important thing that happened was this, that when they could not capture -- you talked of love -- but the churches did not teach -- does not teach the love that Jesus taught, hmm? They started off with love, and their business could not get going, so they struck up the other idea: eternal damnation. They started planting fear in the minds of people to grip them. And this has happened not only in Christianity, but in Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, in all those religions. If you can't conquer with love, you try and conquer with fear. And those are the things that has distorted religions. Hmm? You know, in South Africa, if it wasn't the Bible, it would have been banned, hmm? Because... [TAPE GLIT CH -- NO SOUND] I've come to fill the churches and not to empty them. So it is right to go to the churches, but we want greater quality in the ministers, that's what we want. Do you see. It's nothing for anyone to read a few pages of the Bible and write up a sermon. You can do it. But what can they impart? But then, how many spiritual masters can you get, huh? Q: ...to have something than nothing?

10. U S 83 - 22 GR: In a way, yes. You could put it that way to have something. True. Q: ...you just like to go, you know... GR: You go. It's a beautiful social occasion and see what kind of dress Mary has on and how June is dressed. And then you tell Jane, "You know, Mary had the same dress on this Sunday which she had on two Sundays ago. And gossiping. Ever ything serves a purpose. SUJAY: I think a lot of times people go to church...it's kind of symbolic. It's a place where, even though it doesn't give the peace that passeth understanding, at least that thought can be remembered there more easily than in t he work - a - day world where there are so many other distractions. And if that thought can be remembered... GURURAJ: Yes, if it can be remembered, yea, but the thing is, people might remember that thought when they're there, but as soon as they get out it's all forgotten and gone. I had a partner in one of the businesses I was interested in some years ago, and he was Mohammedan. And I used to drop him at the mosque where he normally went, hmm, and then I used to be busy on my things and then I picked him up again. And the first thought that was in his mind was, "Who can I catch now." Coming right out of the mosque spending an hour and a half there. VOICE: Kept him out of trouble for an hour and a half. GURURAJ: So there again you see the honesty and sincerity Sujay, that oh I'm a regular church goer and what - have - you. I had a cashier working in one o f my cinemas, for example, who never drank, never smoked, nothing, until one day I caught him stealing. And it was going on for a very long time. He was in cohorts with the doorkeeper so the doorkeeper never used to tear the ticket and would pass the old half to a new customer and the ticket would get recycled through the cashier's box. And what a good man he used to be, so proud of himself! I don't smoke, I don't drink. And yet, I found the most honest people that used to drink like a fish. And yet, h earts of gold. Honesty, sincerity, living God. So what if he enjoys a couple glasses of sherry with his dinner, whatever. Nothing wrong. This here [presumably listening to heart] must be right. The heart. There's the purity. And this guy used to go t o church every Sunday, this man that I'm talking

11. U S 83 - 22 about who used to work for me. Every Sunday church. Two services, the morning and evening service. Non - smoker, non drinker -- but a thief! Do you see. So what I'm trying to say is, don't have outward show. Have that inner show. CHELA: ...what I was saying. So you go to church it doesn't mean that you're... GURURAJ: Yeah, of course. CHELA: ...it's like Bob says, you go to church and you can relax and think...you're there. You don't have to... GUR URAJ: Yeah, but unfortunately most people don't really do that. That's the unfortunate part. Even that hour or two hours in church could be very beneficial to people if they were that sincere and honest to themselves and have the mind filled with uplift ing thoughts. Oh, yes. I've known of people that never go to church and yet are really wonderful people. CHELA: With all the things that children are exposed to in the churches and the schools...politics and what goes on in the neighborhood and everyth ing like that, as parents what is the most important thing that we can impart to our children? How do we communicate so that...they have to live in this world? How do we talk to them so that... GURURAJ: Well, the first requisite is a deep love for th e child. The child must not be regarded as a burden. A deep love for the child. That's step number one. Step number two is to very sweetly guide the child so that he wouldn't sit down and see horror movies or murders. It has been proven that the averag e American child is subjected to thirteen thousand murders on the telly box, on the T.V. Do you see? Now, a child can be guided with that love. You know that when you bring up the child, you, you avoid the child. Make the child avoid seeing such pro grams, for example, hmm? And children today, whoa. Sex, and things, it's they know more than you and I know, hmm? Yes, like this one boy... Chela: It scares me. GR. Yeah. Like this one boy...It's very scary. Like this one boy told his mother the previous evening, "Um, Mom, you must wake me up early, you know for school." So the mom asks why. He says there's going to be a program on sex

12. U S 83 - 22 education, hmm? So, well the Mom woke him up. She thought, "Well, the teachers are not going to do anything w rong." Yeah, so she woke him up, and he went to school early. So when he got back home in the evening the mother asked, "How was it?" He says, "Oh, it was just a whole lot of theory!" [laughter] GR. Yes. You know these cannibals in the central Afric a caught a missionary and of course, the chief was quite glad about it, and they wanted to boil him -- cook him, hmm? So there was one wise man among the cannibals, and said , "Oh, please, we shouldn't eat this man. He's a man of God, a missionary, a man o f God. We shouldn't eat him." So the chief says, "No, we must eat him. My people must have a taste of religion." [laughter] GR. The next question? Hmm? Ahh! Q.: I remember reading the council of churches, you know, all of the religious scholars that are heading our political organizations known as churches in this country and internationally, have gotten together and come out against gene selection. What did you say? Sujay: Genetic engineering? Q.: Yeah, that's what it is, right. Gene selection, genetic engineering in human beings. GR.: Yes. Q.: Where they are going to (somehow or other) going to make up a council of select people who will choos e and judge which genes... GR. Uh, huh. Q. ...are to be allowed to pass on into the gene pool. GR.: Are they going to do this?

13. U S 83 - 22 Q. Well, they are capable of doing it, and I'm sure... GR.: No, no. But, but, uh, is it going to be done. It's still in theory form. SUJAY: Yeah, it's still...it's not been perfected yet. Q. It still in theory, yeah. GR.: Well, I do pray and hope... Q.: What do you think about it? GR.: Uh, what I think about it -- I do pray and hope that such a thing will not occur. Because it could produce monsters, hmm? And I don't think anyone has the right to interfere with things like genetic reconstruction. No one has the right to interfere w ith it. Let the genes function by themselves, and the genes function, the chromosomes, etc., function according to the karmic requirements of that particular soul. They're interfering with God. As a matter of fact, I am not in agreemen t with test tube b abies, either. Unless there's a special circumstance where a woman just has plenty of miscarriages or can't conceive or some other personal defect, hmm? Interfering with nature, with natural laws, is terrible, hmm? Q. What about abortion and birth cont rol? GR. Abortion, yes. This was a very big issue in Canada now, while I was there. Where a doctor is to perform abortions and they want to jail him, hmm? So there were two sides, and both equally militant. Half of Canada said that abortions sho uld be legal, and the other half said it should not be legal. I was asked on the Canadian radio, I had an hour's interview, and this chap asked me my opinion on abortion, you know, over the radio. And I told him that abortion should only be practiced wher e there is a total dire necessity for the abortion. Where it would jeopardize the mother's life, for one. If it could disrupt the entire family unit for two. And I gave so many other reasons. Where the child would be, perhaps be born deformed and live a s a vegetable. What's the sense of that? Then, in those cases only, should abortion be allowed. Or if the child would be carrying some kind of hereditary disease, then it should be allowed. But not just generally, where you walk into a clinic, they put a couple of pincers up you, and down it goes. I don't agree with that.

14. U S 83 - 22 Because these people have no idea of when the soul enters the body. Many of the theologians, they teach that the soul or the spirit enters the body at the time of birth, which is to tally, totally wrong. It is not so. Each and every one of us, we might seem solid, but we are not solid. Each and every one of us are totally porous, hmm. And, around each and every one of us there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of entitie s -- souls -- that are waiting to be reborn. You would be attracting a certain kind of entity, according to your makeup, because we don't choose our children. Children choose us as vehicles to be born through. So these thousands and thousands of souls are fl oating in and out of us all the time. And it is at the moment of conception, where the soul is there already. Notice what some of the doctors believe, because they know nothing of the soul or spiritual matters, that only after a while that the soul enter s the entity. Or at the time of birth would the soul enter. No, it's there already, hmm? Or else, why would the sperm be alive. Have you seen sperms under a microscope? You know, they wiggle like little tadpoles, yeah. And look at this wonderful thing . At every ejaculation of a male, a male ejaculates from 300 to 500 million sperms, and out of that 500 million sperms, only one reaches the target -- the ovum. Look how wonderful it is. Look at the scheme of nature. Look at the scheme of divinity, and y ou want to interfere with it? No. Q.: But, Gururaj, you said we should love our children. What about the children who are born who are not wanted by a woman who was not permitted to have an abortion. If she doesn't love the child, doesn't give it lovi ng care, doesn't society have to make some plans for helping those children? GR. Definitely, definitely. And there are child, there are child welfare societies, but they are not operating efficiently. There I would agree with you. Q. Well, and the ant i - abortion foes never go beyond keeping that baby in the woman's body. GR. Uh huh. Q. They never discuss the future. GR. The future of the baby. Q. The future of the baby, yes.

15. U S 83 - 22 GR. Huh. What a shame, huh. It's a real shame. It's a real sh ame. Hmm. They don't realize they're playing with life. Glorified murder. Yeah, that's what the world is. That's what we're faced with. Yes, mum. Q. Uh, when you say these entities are always around, going through us and around us, do we also choose the parents in the way, say, relatives. Do we always stay in a nucleus of surroundings of the same people that we are associated with -- you say like this group. GR. Yeah. Q. Do we always stay with that group that we are always with? GR. Yes and no. If people are of an equal calibre, spiritual calibre, then they would always meet up again and stay in that togetherness. There is only one person that chooses parents not because of the genetic value. We choose our parents, we wait. A ll people wait until the proper combination is found for them to be born through. But there's only one person that can be born through any parents and that is the avatara. He can choose any vehicles, because as soon as he's born, the karmic ties are cut . Q. Guruji, did you have to choose yours? Your mom and dad? GR. [laughs] You know, I don't like to talk of myself. I might have mentioned it to a few very close friends, but let me y ou this story. When I was born, a hissing sound -- you know how s nakes are regarded to be very sacred among the Hindu people -- even if.... You have the God Vishnu -- you don't have a picture here, have you? The god Vishnu with the thousand hooded snake over him, protecting him; or the god Shiva, with the snake around his neck, and things like that. When I was born from my mother, from her stomach, there issued a hissing sound which was heard about four houses away. It was so loud. And the doctor was there, too, at at my mother's side when I was born. And there's no exp lanation to it. The doctor can't explain it. What it was, I don't know. Q. You didn't, I mean, you didn't hear it. GR. Hm? No.

16. U S 83 - 22 Q. You heard from your parents. GR. Uh huh. And four doors away the sound was heard. They all came running. What's happening? Q. Guruji, why do people have such a preoccupation with wanting to know who they were in past lives and what they did? And it seems kind of interesting that when people look into their past lives, it's "Oh, yes, you were a princess." And, "Oh, yes, you were a king." And this and that, but where did all the murderers go? Where did all the pig herders go? GR. Yeah, they are, they are, of course. Q. How can everybody be kings and princesses? GR. Yeah, yeah. But that's what the y... Chela: That's why some of us don't look! GR. That that. You see, people live in dreams, and they are always dream that they had been this, that, or the other in a past life. They always dream that. Like this favorite story of mine, which I've told a few times, perhaps some of you were not there, where this woman came into money. But now she wanted a title. So she went to firm that goes back into genealogy, hmm? Right. Where they study your family tree. So, meanwhile, her great gra ndfather was electrocuted for murdering someone. But now, these firms they charge big fees, so how should they tell this woman that your great grandfather was a murderer. So they wrote to the woman stating that your great grandfather passed over whil e occupying the chair of applied electricity. [laughter] That made a professor out of him, you see? This bishop of London was going down the road and a little urchin bumped into him, this bishop of London. So he was chasing this little urchin, hmm? But , meanwhile, as it turned the corner, he bumped into the bishop of Canterbury. So he says, "What's the rush? Why are you running this way?" He said, "I am running after that urchin there. That urchin says I am going to hell at half past six." So the B ishop of London looks at his watch and says, "What's the hurry? You've still got an hour to go." [laughter] Questions, questions, questions.

17. U S 83 - 22 Q. Well, I've got one. I think you probably answered this one with how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. But now that they've decided that they can tell within 7 - 10 weeks after a woman has conceived, you know, whether the child is deformed or not, you know, I mean, that's really kind of playing with God, too. GR. Yeah. Yes, if they find that that deformation cannot be corrected, it could be a justification for abortion. Q. But what of the karmic value for those, for those... GR. The chi ld will take birth again. Yeah. Oh, yes. Um huh. This man, during the middle of the night, phones the doctor, hmm? And you know doctors nowadays don't like to be phoned in the middle of the night. It's not like the olden time doctors where they used t o run, you know, if one of their patients are ill. They were real family doctors, hmm? Nowadays, we have doctors with families, not family doctors. All right, so this doctor was phoned in the middle of the night. He says, "Doctor, my twelve year old son has swallowed my ball pen, hmm?" What do you call it, ball pens here? Chela: Ball point pen. GR. Ball point pen, yeah. Ball point pen. He swallowed it. What must I do. Well, the doctor says, "Look, it will take me twenty minutes to get there, so meanwhile, use a pencil. [laughter]. Q. Back to abortion again, I'm afraid. Mavis alluded to something. A mother does not want the child. The child is an accident. She cannot afford it. She will have no love for it. Is abortion advisable in that ca se? GR. In that case, she should approach, very well in advance, a child welfare society, who will get the child adopted by parents who really want a child. Yeah. I know of quite a number of cases, which I have handled personally. A Miss [Princelieu ?], of the child welfare society in Cape Town, where I am, happens to be a very good friend of mine. And I have had arranged a lot of adoptions through her. Because she is a government social worker. And I always try and get reports -- feedbacks -- and she a lways tells me those children are very happy. And, especially when a couple can't give birth

1. U S 83 - 22 ANDERSON INTENSIVE: RAPID FIRE Q. ...that if you really want somebody to change that you could just pray for them. What I would lik e to know is that it seems you can't ever get anybody to change. And, if, you know, how does prayer work? Does it change how we see others? GR. Yes, the kind of prayers we do are not really prayers. We are doing bargaining, hmm? We are continuously making requests. We are continuously demanding things, which we might not even deserve. For one thing is sure, that divinity will never give you what you want, but only what you need, hmm? If you expect a million bucks to fall down on your lap, you'r e not going to get it. Unless you deserve it. Unless you have done something in your life -- this life or previous lives -- that would merit that. There's nothing that you get for nothing and very little for five cents. So, when you pray, you alwa ys pray in the sense without any demand. And it's always best to pray not for oneself, but always best, as you've said just now, for others. But many times the mistake we make is this, that we seemingly pray for others, but, within us, there's a selfish motive. That if that person is better, it will benefit me, hmm? So if the prayer is sincere, motiveless, and honest, it invariably works. Now the way to pray is this. Say, for example, a person has a sore leg. Picture the person in your mind, and picture the person walking well and strongly and not limping. So what happens here, thought is a force, is a very, very powerful force. And thought itself is matter, although the human eyes and ears cannot conceive of such fine matter. In this room, for example, the re are millions of atoms floating around, but our eyes can't see it. But if we had a a microscope, we would be able to see the atoms. Likewise, thoughts can be seen. They can be felt. They can be heard. So thought is the subtler counterpart of the gro sser physical body. So when you picture the person to be well or in a different frame of mind, you picture the person in your mind's eye as of a different frame of mind, or when it comes to sickness, you see the person healthy. And, by picturing that pers on in your mind, what you are doing is focusing your energies to that person. And thoughts are very powerful. They could pierce the thickest of steel walls. And they would reach the person. But those thoughts -- and prayer is but a thought -- should be sin cere, honest, and unselfish. Then only will it carry the power. The other person on the other side will not even know what is happening to him or her. But some change would start taking place in that person. Definitely. Next? Today people pray and t hey don't know what they pray about. Such a pity, hmm? There yesterday we attended the Gita class, and they were chanting certain things in Sanskrit, and they didn't know what they were chanting. I could see it. They didn't know the meaning or the impac t of the chanting of those prayers. We go to certain churches. Perhaps Sujay can give us an example?

2. U S 83 - 22 Sujay: Pardon? GR. Perhaps you can give us an example? Latin? Sujay: Oh! What do you want to hear? GR.: Any one. Sujay: Oh, uh, how about "Para Nostrum?" GR.: Yeah, yeah, all right, O.K. That's right. O.K. Yeah, do it. Q.: Guruji, isn't it possible in visualizing or a healthy person, if you have some wishes for another person or something like that, that yo u wouldn't be taking a chance of interfering with their karma, or what's supposed to be going on in their lives? GR.: No. You are not interfering. You are helping their karma, therefore I said, and repeated it twice -- sincere and honest. Unselfish. The n you'd be helping them in their karma, huh? Can I hear your Latin? From the catholic church? He does it well! He's shy! Come on back here. [laughter] Sujay: Out of context. GR.: Yeah. Out of context. Chela: My nieces and nephews used to say at Christmas time, they wanted to hear "Mary, Mary, Full of Grapes". [laughter] GR.: Nevertheless, the point is this, that many times people pray in Latin and they don't know a word about it. They don't understand a word.

18. U S 83 - 22 to a child and adopts a child, they tend -- now this might sound a bit odd -- but they tend to give more love to the adopted child than their own child. Yes. This on e chap, it was his -- he had to speak just for about ten minutes. And he came to see me, he says, "I've got to do an after dinner speech." You know, just pick ten, fifteen, twenty minutes, perhaps, whatever, after dinner speech. "And, Guruji, you've done over 3000 lectures, and give me some tips, you know, how I should go about doing this." He's never got up in front of a few people to say a few words. Right. So, the advice I could give him was this: that, if in ten minute s' time you don't strike oil, s top boring. [laughter] GR. Twenty to...oh, I thought you were going to have a tea break first, no? Chela Oh, O.K., that's a good idea. GR. Have a have a tea break. Feel refreshed. And then we do Yoga Nidra. We might have to shove this couch to t hat side, huh? Yah, we can do that, yah! Mmm Hmm. You know this Irish teacher. This Irish teacher, you know, asked the children, you know, umm. Gay will enjoy this joke very much. This Irish teacher in Ireland asked the children -- are you Irish too? Goo d, right. Asked the children, "Who was the greatest man that ever lived?" So one boy got up and he said, "Columbus". Right. Then another boy got up, and he said, "Washington." Greatest man that ever lived. Then a Jewish boy got up, and he said, "Sain t Patrick." Now, you must know Saint Patrick is the patron saint of Ireland, so he said St. Patrick. So, he got the prize, hmm? Because his teacher's an Irishman, and St. Patrick, so he must get the prize. So, afterwards, he calls the boy over -- the litt le Jewish brilliant lad -- calls him over. He says, "Tell me how come you said St. Patrick?" So the little Jewish boy says that, "Look, in my heart I knew that the greatest man that lived was Moses, but business is business. [laughter] Will someone put o n the water, while I tell a few more jokes? There's one there at the back there. Mmm. **** END ****