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1. US 83- 36 GARBER'S: FEELING NON EXISTENT AND RAPID FIRE (TWO TAPES: US 83036 & US 83037) GR: I light this candle to Mark and Gail in moving into this very, very beautiful home, may you find all the greatest joy and pleasure here and may your hearts also be more and more beautiful as this very beautiful home. [SINGS SANSKRIT PRAYER] Om shanti, shanti, shanti. Good. What shall we speak about... what shall we speak about tonight? Priya: Beloved Gururaj, if God is all existence, why do I feel at times that I am non existent? What makes me feel inferior to other people when something within me says that I'm equal to all? GR: You are....? Priya: ...equal to all. GR: Equal to all. Now here is a conflict of feeling. At one moment you'd feel that you are non existent and at the next moment you feel that you are equal to all. The very word that you are equal to all, you are admitting existence, for who is all that you would refer to? So, in this life which is a paradox, one finds oneself sometimes placed in the position when you become totally centered within yourself, when you become integrated, when mind body and spirit functions in oneness, you say to yourself, "I am non existent. Something else exists. That which I thought is me is not really me, for I am not this body, I am not this mind, but I am something else." So I combine in daily living both the principles that I am not existent yet I am all existence. For without me how can existence ever exist? For that I that I would speak of in thinking those thoughts would be the greater I that I really am eternal, immortal, without beginning and without end for I am always there, I have never been away. I've never come from anywhere and there's no place that I will go to. I just am. Yahweh. I am that I am. But when the feelings creep up within one of non existence it also shows another factor, that the very recognition of the fact that I am not existence, then it could be brought about by a comparison of existence. Now if you compare the two, you've got to have a point with which comparisons are done. Then if you do not know existence how can you say you are non existence? For one requires the pre... the prerequisite knowledge has to be there to know of non existence as well as of existence.

2. US 83- 36 So you are both non existence as well as existence. But beyond both you are also, you are also beyond existence and non existence. For non existence, as I said a moment ago, is just but the negation of existence. But yet there is a factor which transcends existence and non existence. For existence or non existence implies relativity, the relative way of looking at life. For the existence that you know of is perceived by your five senses activated by your mind with its various categories of consciousness, sub consciousness, and superconsciousness. And yet what is the reality in this all? Is there any reality in the superconscious mind? Is there a superconscious mind? Is there a sub conscious mind and is there a conscious mind? Now when all these three are brought together and brought to the center of your ego, then it recognizes superconsciousness, the consciousness and the sub consciousness. So it is the ego that says that "I am existence". But when you transcend the ego then superconsciousness disappears. Consciousness disappears and all the trappings and workings, the garbage of the sub conscious mind, also disappears. For then you are in a totally different existence. And that too you can question, "Is this existence or not?" You are in a different dimension, that would be a better word. And from that dimension all this that you hear and say, touch, smell, all your conceptions of existence, everything around you would seem a dream. So are you awake or are you dreaming? Now, when you say, " I am existence", you are talking about the dream and the dream exists. But what is the form of the dream in which you exist? Where does that dream come from that tells you that this is a dream and who is the cognizer of the dream? There again you go back to that ego self which, in reality, is non existent. So here, the existence of the dream comes from non existence so it would mean that the dream in non existent too. For what reality is in the dream? Dreams are the thought formations, gathered in this lifetime or perhaps other lifetimes, and because of certain happenings today, last week, six months ago, it triggers off a picture in your mind. And the picture it triggers off is a concoction of different experiences interpreted again, and not in its total purity, but filtered through that ego self. So there, existence is found, it is observed. I am dreaming that I am climbing up the Himalayas while I am here in Chicago. What is the validity of it? Am I really climbing the mountains there or am I not? Now I say to you that you are climbing the Himalayas while even in Chicago. For the entirety of existence is imagination. Now imagination does not need to be false. For the word "imagination" comes from image making and any image you make in your mind is a reality within the concept of the realness of the very image you are building in the mind. So that is why in practical daily life people are so much effected by the images they create in their mind where something so real becomes unreal and something unreal becomes real. I tell someone, a woman, "I love you". What is the reality of that love? What is the reality of that love, for the very cognition of love within me brings that love into non existence for the mind could never comprehend the meaning of love.

3. US 83- 36 So we could say that love is not of the mind, but love is an experience. Now if it is an experience we got to have an experiencer. Who is experiencing that experience? There again it is your ego self that experiences that, and the ego self has its own model of what it would perceive to be an experience. The ego self has formulated certain ideas of what love is or what love should be. So the ego self projects that love in saying that "I love you". The ego self tries all the time to compare, compare, compare its past experiences with what is now in the presence. I am in the presence of someone I love deeply. But I have to have a basis to compare that why do I love this person deeply. And that is taking place in the mind all the time, comparisons, comparisons, comparisons, always trying to find a point of reference. And yet, when you do find the point of reference within your sub conscious mind and you bring it down to the level of feeling or experience, then who is the experiencer? The non existent ego. So the entire concept of love, real love, actual love, is never comprehended and never experienced by man in his present fragmented state. Therefore, to know love, that is the secret. To become love, that is the secret. To be love, that is the secret. Not to feel. For in feelings emotions are involved and emotions are governed by the ego self. To think that you love, that still loses its validity because it is governed by the mind. So through meditational practices, through spiritual practices, we become so integrated that we neither feel love, we neither think love, we neither experience love because that would be temporary not eternal for as soon as you drop this body that love is dropped. Because it is governed by things that are forever changing. You might feel this today and a different thing tomorrow. You might feel so beautiful and tender today with you beloved one, and tomorrow...? The feelings might change because he or she has been scolding you over something very, very trivial. So experiencing this love for the moment is not a true experience. It's a presumed experience. It's a superimposition upon your real self, your actual self. So experience, emotions, feelings, and thought, proves the non existence of love. Now, what is the true existence of love is to become love, devoid of any conditioning. Where like a flower gives of its fragrance all the time without being conscious of it. For even in experience, feeling, emotions, and thought you require consciousness and love transcends all consciousness. You are love. You are love and that is a realization which exists within itself. It does not require oil in the lamp to keep the flame alive. But it is self effulgent and that self effulgence is both existence and non existence. So when people are hurt in love, when people are disappointed because I use love as an example, for this is the greatest need of man and man's ego self: to love and be loved, that is the greatest need. From the ego level. And because it being a need it gives either pleasure or pain. But what I want you to experience, rather "know," which is a better word than experience, I want you to know the "is ness" of love. And in there you would combine existence and non

4. US 83- 36 existence. You would form a synthesis between the two opposites, for in reality non existence is existence and existence is non existence. This applies to divinity as well. Does the divine exist or does it not exist? This is the question that would bother the minds of agnostics: "Does divinity exist or does it not exist?" He is both. He is non existence as well as existence. But the existence only comes along by your perception, and that is where you lack the knowingness of existence. Until then it is non existence. So it is of no use to reach that realization with any pre conceived ideas. Of no use whatsoever of having conceptions of what God or divinity would be like. If you ask, "What would he be like?" then you would still have to use a point of reference, where there is no reference at all and that non reference is the non existence; so how could you find existence on the point of that which is non existent. Do you see? So, the path to self realization and even "self" is a very incomplete word. We say a man is self realized, what is self? D o we know the self? And if we do not know the self, what right have we to say that "I am self realized." Or what right do we ha ve to say that "I am on the path to self realization?" What I'm trying to point out to you is to get away from all ideas of your self, to get away from all ideas of your existence or your non existence. And it is only then when you're away from these ideas that suddenly you are in the dimension of knowingness. And that thin dividing line where there's neither existence and there is non existence. This is a totally revolutionary idea: that you do not merge away into existence or non existence, but between that invisible line and you land there in that knowingness that "I am" and that "I am" is not dependent upon existence or non existence. And that, to use common parlance, is self realization. That is awakening. That is when you are awakened. So these religions, as good as they are, they have served a purpose, and they still do serve a purpose. I encourage all religions, and as I've said millions of times, "Let a Christian become a better Christian, a Judaist a better Judaist," but I'm speaking now to very highly intelligent people, because only they would understand these totally revolutionary ideas that will become household words in the centuries to come. So, practice whatever religion you do want to practice, but remember you got to go beyond all dogmas, all creeds, all rituals, to land up in that fine line that invisible and indivisible line like the day melting into night or the night melting into dawn. How many times as a child, while I was searching for divinity, did I not sit night after night watching the sun setting and the night coming on; and I wanted to see where the day ends and the night begins. How many hundreds of times have I not sat up in the mornings, wanting to see where night ends and day begins. But I could not see the dividing line. I could not see the dividing line and I only discovered later, after still many, many years of practices in the Himalayas and all over, that that dividing line is of knowingness. I know that this is day and I know that this is night. Yet the day is existent for me

5. US 83- 36 here now. On the other side of the globe it is non existent. And the same thing applies for night. For me the night is existent here but on the other side of the globe it is non existent there, it is daytime there. And then at last when illumination comes, when the awakening comes, you're right in the center of either side of existence and non existence. And there the mind starts thinking, "How can I put this realization, or this awakening, into words?" And you fail to put it into words. For that ecstasy that lies only between existence and non existence is indescribable. I look into the eyes of the woman I love, and there I would find that so called middle, the so called center of me existing and non existing and she existing and non existing. And that is love, unconditional, unpremeditated, and just a happening. That split second where we experience the entirety of that which is called eternity. One second. One glimpse. That's all that's required. So man has the potentiality of reaching the highest level. And when I say the highest level it means even beyond the highest level of awareness. For you are in the dimension of non awareness. For if divinity is given the attributes of awareness, then divinity ceases to be divinity for awareness must have qualifications. So, you go on practicing the religions of you forefathers. But remember, dogmas and creeds will only take you to a certain point, not further. And talking of religions, there was this one minister, who was staying at a hotel. And he was walking around one night in the foyer of the hotel. He was in sleep but he was walking around. So the manager comes up to him and says, "Look you can't do this in this hotel, walk around in the foyer in your pajamas." So this padre says, "Look I'm a, I am a somnambulist." So the minister replies, "I don't care what religion you belong to, but you can’t walk around here like this." Somnambulism, how beautiful. To enter the dimension of somnambulism, you are performing all actions and you are not aware of them. What a beautiful state. For to be aware, it can do two things for you. It can either give you pain or pleasure. But to be non aware, not unaware, but non aware is the state where there's no pleasure and no pain but total ecstasy existing within itself and without any point of reference. Do you see? And that is the best way to enjoy. For you are not now enjoying an object or a subject. You are enjoying enjoyment. And that enjoyment is enjoyed by not your ego self or your patternings or your conditionings. But it is self existent within itself without requiring any support whatsoever. So, non existence has to have its counterpart of existence. But what we have to find, through spiritual practices, is that invisible line between the two and live on that line, which is eternity. Am I going a bit too deep? Yah. Pardon? Right. So, what does man want most? He wants everything to be pleasurable for him. He must have everything that is nice, pleasurable. And how does he compare his pleasurableness or the extent of his pleasure, is by the status that he imagines himself, that he should be in or should have. That is why this whole world is topsy turvy. Because the very

6. US 83- 36 status idea is based upon economics. So more, more, more we want of the things of a mundane level that is so transitory. Momentary pleasure and a hundred moments more of pain because we have experienced that pleasure. I had a beautiful dinner. So if the next day I do not have a good dinner, my mind will go back to yesterday. And because the mind is lead back to yesterday, today's dinner does not seem nice to me or good to me. And that is pain. So when man goes beyond comparisons or the point of reference, and still further than that, the point of identification, then you live without identity. And when you can live without identity, then you have known all that there is to be known. As the Upanishads would say, and I've said this before in some talk, "What is there that can be known, and by knowing which, all else is known?" You see. That line between existence and non existence. You see. Then you enjoy total freedom. You enjoy total freedom because you are bound by neither. You are not bound by existence and you are not bound by non existence. You are just it. Just it. Floating away. Divine ecstasy. And it is fro m that very divine ecstasy that you have come. And manifested yourself as existence and non existence because they are two sides of the same coin. When you are asleep, where are you? Is there any factor recognizing that you are asleep. No. You are non existent. If there is no factor recognizing, its only when you wake up in the morning and say "Oh, I have slept for eight hours". So it is a reflection of something that has already past. You are reflecting upon it, "I have been asleep." But while you were asleep were you conscious that you are in deep sleep? No. And when you are awake, are you truly conscious of your wakefulness? No. People are robots. They function in a robot like fashion. Things are just done automatically. Automatically. A routine a pattern is set and you just follow the pattern all the time. Morning you wake up, you brush you teeth, you have your shower, you get dressed, you go to work. Do the same old things all the time. Selling bales and bales of cloth and material. Right? [E nd Side One] [Side two]...then you come home at night and you be with your wife and children, play with them, and make love, fall asleep, wake up in the morning. And the same thing starts all over again. But you get tired of that. The sameness of every day. You get tired of it. So what do you do? You look for excitement! And people try and find all kinds of excitement. TV, all those murders and what have you, and all those stories. All false, just a picture and you re live them. That's your excitement. Or you date out girls or boys, that’s excitement. Or you go and see a play, that's excitement. Hm. Excitement.

7. US 83- 36 No wonder people are fragmented. What is the basis of fragmentation? Excitation, because you get excited, life becomes topsy turvy. Even work, you feel that excitement, and the seeds of excitement are anxiety. Something has to be done and you say, "Oh I'm so excited." But it could mean something painful or pleasurable. In a state of excitement all the time. In a state of turmoil all the time. In a state of turbulence all the time, for excitement is nothing else but turbulence instead of that deep calm tranquility. The deep calm, tranquility, that nothing and nothing at all could ever disturb you. As the Gita would say, "Praise do not inflate you or blame do not deflate you" because you are there, living in that line between existence and non existence and here comes the beauty, that you become appreciative of both factors. Where you live in the simultaneous knowingness that "I exist and yet I do not exist." When you say, "I do not exist," you are bringing your self to the highest state of relativity. When you say, "I do not exist", then all your anxieties, all your insecurities, all your inadequacies, all your heartaches, they all disappear. For they would become non realities in non existence. And then when you say to yourself, "I exist." you realize that that I which I am talking about is not this one that is excited all the time, but that tranquil one. Where there is no pain nor pleasure. So living in the center there, nothing disturbs you, because in non existence there is no pain and pleasure and in real existence there is no pain and neither pleasure. That is where we must lead ourselves to live. And when we meditate and do our spiritual practices, we reach that stage. In the beginning, just a glimpse is enough. It's like bare electric wires. You don't need to hold them for an hour to feel the electric shock. A momentary glimpse is enough to regenerate you for the whole day through, until you become so established in the indivisible, invisible line that you just are, you just are. Bu t yet you have a conscious mind, you have a subconscious mind, you have a superconscious mind which together, put together, brings about an awareness, so you have the awareness of all that is around you. And you have the non awareness of all that which is not around you and yet remain balanced and poised. So that is the beauty of living in that area of knowingness which combines awareness and non awareness, existence and non existence. And this comes experientially, only to the highest limit of the superconscious mind. And beyond that there is no experience, but just a beautiful knowingness filled with ecstasy and joy. Is it an hour yet? Good. So what we'll do is have a little break. Gail. [Tape is switched off, then resumes. Probably referring to the children or guests.] There is such a beautiful glow around them. Very spiritual people. Teach them to meditate. It would be goo d. Meditation takes one from all the fragmentations and the troubles in the world to an area that is so peaceful. One's entire life changes, the heart unfolds. The more the heart unfolds the more we capture within its folds the entirety of the universe. And it's an area of very deep awareness that you would develop. What I spoke about tonight was an area that goes beyond awareness. [It is?] which comes later, we don't want that yet. What we want is to enjoy life, all the beauties

8. US 83- 36 of life, where nothing could disturb us and we become so tranquil and stable within ourselves. Its indescribable. You must ask these meditators, they'll tell you. We'll have a couple of jokes here perhaps. You know these three Chinamen were having a chat and they're talking about television. So the one Chinaman says, "Me, NBC", the second one say "Me, CBS", and the third one says, "Me no telly". You know there are four words that could shock any bride. Four four letter words that could shock any bride, and they are: "cook," "wash," "dust," "iron." [Gr laughs] You know, this Irish teacher, in Ireland. In his class he asks the children the question, "Who was the greatest man that lived on earth?" So one said, "Columbus." The other one said, "Washington." And there was a clever little Jewish boy in the class. So he got up and said, "Saint Patrick." No as you would know, St. Patrick is the patron saint of Ireland. So he got the prize, this clever little Jewish boy. So after the class was out the teacher called him over and he says, "Young man, why did you say St Patrick?" So this boy says, "Sir, in my heart I knew that the greatest man the lived was Moses, but business is business." Good, questions. [Roshan?]: [inaudible]... beginning that we grew up in a Judeo Christian society and we know what guilt is all about. And so we feel guilty when we do something that we perceive as being wrong. You talked about pleasure. Pleasure is, in fact, not good. The pursuit of pleasure. Gr: Who says? Who says? [Roshan?]: What do we do while we're still trying to grow? When we do enjoy pleasurable things, when we actually pursue those things. I realize that when I'm in meditation, when I'm doing it right I can become non attached, I can renounce those things. But I can't renounce those things all the time. And I don't even know if I want to go that far. What do I do? Gr: Yes. Don't renounce. You can only appreciate the world if you renounce renunciation. Now, we all seek for pleasure, naturally. We want to make love to our beloveds. We would like to live in a beautiful home. We would like to eat good food. What we like, you know for a man, his greatest happiness supposed to be is to have a wife well willed, a house well filled and a field well tilled. These are the things that gives us pleasure.

9. US 83- 36 Now there's nothing wrong in having these pleasures. I don't say you must become a celibate. And if you don't exercise your arm it can become atrophied. You don't exercise your leg, it can also become atrophied. [laughing] So all the organs we have been given, like seeing and hearing and smelling and tasting and every other organ use them by all means, but use them wisely. What do I mean by using the wisely? Do not be indiscriminate. Do not use, you know, yourself in a way that will harm you or harm others. Fine. And to go still further in using things wisely, is to see everything to be divine. The food you eat, you say, "Well this food is divine." Every action you perform in life must assume the quality of divinity. So as you like this it will just be a menta l thought. But when you become more and more integrated through meditation you will actually feel within yourself, that "Look all this is divine." So that will, that does not mean that you take away from yourself all the pleasures of life and become an ascetic. I do not believe in asceticism at all or any kind of fad. Just be your self, but do it with the awareness that all this is divine. And this must not be a mental thought because then it could become a justification. I go and rob a bank and I say, "Oh well the bank is divine, I am divine, the money's divine, so why not?" Do you see? Right. That's intellection, that is, you know it is sophistry. It is not true. But any action we perform with sincerity, honesty and without selfishness. You can find so much pleasure in life and yet be totally unselfish. Even when husband and wife make love to each other it must be totally unselfish. It must be an offering to each other. A total surrender to each other and not to appease base instincts, instincts of lust. For you were not born for lust, you were born to love and love is to surrender to each other. You see. So do not deny yourself the pleasures of life. Although remember that all those pleasures are transitory. All pleasures are transitory. And the entire attention should not be on pleasure only. In other words, you do not become hedonistic. That means living for pleasure alone. But to live with the recognition that there is something higher than me that resides within me. You see. Then pleasure's ok. Nothing wrong. I have my fun too. Why not? Next. Q: To go just a little further, I talked about guilt before. (GR: A hah!) We're all into guilt because that's how we do it here. GR: I said I think in a talk last night or the night before, that the greatest disease on earth is guilt. Q: What can we do to get rid of this quilt? Gr: Yah. Right. You must get him that tape on guilt. I think I made a few tapes on that. What you do about guilt is firstly to recognize that you live in the present and not in the past. Guilt is produced by the thoughts of the past, what you have

10. US 83- 36 done in the past. That produces guilt. Or the projection into the future, that produces guilt. That I've hurt someone last week or the week before and I feel guilty about it. But have in mind, look what has been done has been done. Its so much water under the bridge. Right. I've done, in business, a person down with 10 thousand dollars. So now I'm feeling guilty about it. Well, to get rid of that guilt take 10 thousand and one dollar and give it to some worthwhile cause, some charity, blind society, deaf and dumb organization. Whatever. [Give it?]...that guilt is gone. Or else if you don't have it , have the intention, the sincere intention in your heart, you do not need to pay that 10,000 and one in cash. You can pay it on the installment plan and so your guilt gets reduced. You know, this guy wanted to get married and so his friend asks him, "I heard you are going to get married but what's happened?" And so the friend says, "When I'm drunk and I propose she won't accept my proposal, and when I'm sober, I don't want to propose." This father spanked his child for stealing jam. And the father is a burglar by profession. So the boy, he says, "I know Dad what you do at night when you go out. So why do you spank me for stealing jam? You're doing it every night." And so the father says, "I'm not spanking you for stealing the jam but I am spanking you for leaving your fingerprints on the jar." Questions? Q: Ah, Guruji. In addition to my interest in listening to you I also like to go and see the competition as it were. And hear other spiritual teachers. And one of the observations that I've made is that they always seem to have people with them, a certain group of people, who seem to belong with them. Even though I can't really tell whether they're... For example, I listened to one Monday night who proclaimed himself to be the divine master of the world, whatever that could be. I can't tell where they're really coming from, but the people seem to be with them, in a sense, in (inaudible) sense, that some of us seem to be with you. So what's the relationship between the Guru and chela. Gr: Ah hah. Yes. Firstly remember that anyone that proclaims himself to be a divine master or an incarnation of this one or that one or that one, please stay far away from him. I tell you why. Because a true divine master, an avatara, for example, an incarnation, will never say that he is an incarnation. It will be known only after he is dead, perhaps many, many years after he is dead. I do encourage one thing very much. Listen to as many people as you like. Read books on all kinds of subjects by various kinds of teachers. Good books, read them. Read them. And why I encourage you to read all those things, and listen to others, so that perhaps by having some background, you might be able to appreciate more the things I talk about.

11. US 83- 36 Now that is a bit selfish on my part, but at the same time I give you the freedom to listen to all, anyone and everyone. Have the mind open, that's what it means. Have the mind open. For realizations will dawn in you by yourself. I'm only the guide. There's one thing a true spiritual master does. He can be a fantastic orator and what have you and I've heard many of them, Bible punching, you know. I know how to do that too. When I used to do political rallies as a youthful politician, youthful rebel, in the fight for India's freedom. I know how to speak in that way too. But with me, it's heart conversing with heart. For example, tonight's talk I don't even remember what I talked about. Perhaps later if I have a chance to listen to the tape, I would say, "Did I say this? Did I say that?" With me its the communication of heart to heart and what vehicle do we have to communicate is the mind and the very limited use of language, because language is very limited. So, even in the words, there is a spiritual force that is imparted that touches the heart. And those are some of the signs of the true spiritual master. So listen, listen, listen. Keep your ears open to everything. For something that could be heard from someone else will one day make you realize perhaps a greater truth that might come from a totally different person. For everything in this world teaches one. If we look around we would see that night and day. Everything teaches. Like for example, look at the ants. How they crawl without bumping into each other. Look how systematic, look at the precision. If you look at the bees for example, goes to the flower, takes away the honey and yet does not disturb the fragrance and neither the beauty of the flower. Take away, take, take, take. Drink of the honey of life. Have pleasure. There are some organizations, incidentally, that wouldn't even allow you to go and listen to other speakers. Because they want to hold you down. I do not want to hold anyone down. I want to produce in them a freedom, not bondage. I will take you away from bondage to freedom and not bind you to a particular kind of ideology. For example, when Maharishi started the Siddhis program, teaching people to levitate, which Swami Vishnudevananda, he put out a little booklet on that, which was posted to me in South Africa, no from Canada, because he's got an ashram there. As a matter of fact, I was told yesterday that he is going to be a co speaker with me at the World Parliament of Religions in November. Vishnudevananda is one of the speakers. So it is not to... so this Himalayan, he called it "the great Himalayan hoax " levitation and things like that. Nobody's learned to fly yet. I have little people, when I used to teach a bit of yoga, when I had a yoga teacher to do it for me in Cape Town, youngsters of fifteen and sixteen, they could hop around. Sitting cross legged. Nothing wonderful in that. And, in that form when you apply for that course, I believe there's a line written there that have you followed, they've listed half a dozen, and one of them is this, "Have you followed any of Gururaj's practices?" If you say "yes" they don't admit you. They try to bind you down. You know the words they.... You see, the idea of many of these organizations is

12. US 83- 36 brainwashing. They brainwash you into a certain way of thinking. Which is very wrong. I want to give you total freedom of thought so that you can come to a realization. Like I always say, "I shine the light upon the path, not upon you." Why on the path? So that you don't stumble and fall, but you've still got to walk with your own two feet. Ah yes. You know, this uh, couple when they go married, they decided that"We're gonna sleep in separate bedrooms." One on this end of the hall and the other on the other end. So, here this friend asks, he says, "You know this sounds very, very strange. You're husband and wife. You're married. You must sleep in the same bedroom." And then as the conversation went on, his friend asks, he says "For example, if you feel like having a cuddle, what do you do?" So this chap says, "Oh I just whistle and she comes along." After talking more, his friend says, "Wait a minute. There's another side to this story. What if she feels like a cuddle, then what do you do?" So this chap replies, "Well, She comes and knocks on my door and asks, 'Did you whistle?'" [some laughter] To our two new friends here, our motto is "Life, love and laughter". To be able to really laugh. It is one of the greatest expressions of the joy that is within you. To me from morning til night is just one big laugh, one big joke. You know, this carpenter was busy nailing down a plank. And so his foreman, the supervisor, comes along there, and he tells this carpenter, he says, "Oh you work like lightning." So this carpenter was quite flattered by this. So he says, "Ah thank you sir." He says, "Don't thank me. You work like lightning because you never knock the nail in the same place twice." Lightning never knocks...I meant to ex... sometimes I've got to explain, Jamie, my jokes. [laughter] Lightning. Lightning never strikes... Yeah, I've got to draw pictures, cartoons for him. Yeah. See lightning never strikes at the same place twice. So this carpenter always misses where he knocks the nail, huh. He works like lightning. [background chatter and more laughter] Yeah, OK. Yes, you know this stock broker. There, [laughing] I'm gonna get one on you. You know this stockbroker, uh, became broke. And uh, he tried to analyze why he became broke. Because he bought preferred stocks and preferred blonds. [laughter] Questions? You're welcome to join in the chit chat. Please do ask anything you want to. Q: When I think of these false spiritual masters, I have no way of telling which are the true ones, but is it possible that some of them are people who are legitimately on a path to enlightenment and somehow they became diverted or perverted, or are they simply charlatans from the ...

13. US 83- 36 GR: Yeah. Look I could give you the whole secret now. You can become, uh, uh uh uh, a so called spiritual master tomorrow. You buy a dozen books on a particular subject, read them up and by reading the twelve books you formulate some little system with little variations and you start teaching them and you are a spiritual master. And that's what most of them are doing. You have so many unemployed Ph.D's in this country, in America, that, having nothing to do, they take up a second Ph.D. And some of them, they start up these things, because there have been people here like Maharishi and Muktananda and this, that, and the other, you know, that make millions and millions of dollars. So they say, "Well, let us climb on the bandwagon." And yet they do nothing for you really. They just shift around, through psychological processes, various mental energies, and they do nothing for you. A true spiritual master not only gives you wisdom and shows you the way, but also imparts a spiritual force to you, and that is what these other guys can't do because they have not reached that enlightened stage. They are not awakened. If you have nothing top give how can you give it? If I five cents in my pocket, then only can I give you the five cents or par t of it or whatever, but if I have nothing there in the first place, what can I give? You see? So it is just a racket. I saw a tabloid sized newspaper in San Francisco so thick and there is nothing else in there but about five hundred advertisments of various kinds of movements. Hmmm, try to make a business of these things and I'm, I'm in total disagreement into making God into a business. Of course, donations are expected from people. I don't charge anything for initiating anyone. The few dollars that are sent, that covers postage and stationery and things. And of course the organizations in America, England, Denmark, Spain, South Africa, other countries, they do expect a donation or else how are they going to run things. They got to hire halls for talks. There for example, the Lake Geneva thing is starting tomorrow and they're not going to give Lake Geneva to us for nothing. Food and board and lodge that has to be paid for. So um, and then there are so many other expenses. You know these people that work so hard, our teachers, they got to run around here, everywhere, there's petrol and oil and telephone and things to be covered. So a donation is requested. But not like other organizations where, uh, and this comes from a first hand story, we're in Washington, some woman who was in some deep trouble, and she went to these TM people. And she had no money and she was crying. She thought TM would help her. She was in such deep trouble. And she had she has no money. So they chased her back. They said, "Sorry. Bring your $350" or $300 whatever the case might be. And there you are. [END OF TAPE] -- [CONT'D SIDE 3. STARTS ON TAPE US 83037]

14. US 83- 36 ...a very personal friend and he asks this friend, "Man I'm in a dilemma, and I don't know what to do. So could you give me some advice?" He says, "Well, what's your problem? Tell me." He says, "I'm in love with two girls and I'm thinking which one I should marry. The one girl is very pretty, but poor. And the second girl, who I do love to a great extent is plain looking but rich. Who should I marry?" So the friend says, "Look at, it's obvious that you love the pretty girl although she's poor. You should really marry her." So the friend says, "Thanks for the advice. I'm thinking of the same thing. What does money matter when you love a girl?" So as he was leaving the friend called out, "By the way, what is the address of that plain girl who is very rich?" [laughter] Now this other boy wanted to marry a rich girl. So, so when asked the reason "Why do you want to marry a rich girl?". So he says, "I would like to give her everything she wants..with the money that she gives me to buy it with." Q: Recently I seem to have run into a lot of people who are terribly depressed. I have gone through something like that myself a few years back. What can we do to help those who are just suffering from an all consuming depression? Is there anything? GR: Teach them to meditate. Oh yes, their depressions will go. Because it is not only the practices that I have given, but a great spiritual force is imparted that will rid the depression. Encourage them to listen to tapes of ours and we've got a good few thousand of them, talks 'round the world. Let them listen to that. Teach them to meditate and their depression will go. Instead of going to psychiatrists who hook them on and them treat them for years on end as Vidya will tell you. If a patient goes week after week after week to a psychiatrist and nothing really helps them. The psychiatrist is happy, hooking on customers. He gets paid through the medical aid, insurance companies. So what does he care? The longer he keeps a client the better. And in any case, I still got to meet a psychiatrist, and I've got thousands of psychiatrists that, hundreds of them, tens of hundreds perhaps, that are meditators of mine, psychiatrists, and they know so little of the mind. They go according to various theories, be it Freudian or Jungian. They practice rules by the book, and a human being is so unique that you can't go by the book. You got to have a total understanding, not only of the person's mind but of his entire psyche. And his spiritual state of evolution, before you can really help a person. Psychiatrists are nothing but modern day witch doctors and so are psychologists. With respects to you madame. [laughter]. Yes. Uh, I give you an example. Say in olden times, in the backwoods of India for example, illiterate people. This one woman was going through certain kinds of fits, and I witnessed this myself. So they recommended her to a medicine man which we call

15. US 83- 36 witch doctors. In India they call it [Buas?], recommended to a [Bua?] and look, if you take, her to a [Bua?] and then he wil l fix her up. So they went to this one and he says, "Well", he looks up an almanac, which is all bull, you know, but he says, "This would be the appropriate date so tomorrow night at twelve o'clock, you come to the river. I shall be there and effect a cure for you." Uh, I was there. I wanted to go with to see what's happening. Right. "But you must bring a cock along with you." A fowl, a cock. Good. So, he goes into the river with the cock. Of course he charged his fee, that was pre arranged, but this person was bringing the cock. He puts this woman, makes her sit there on the river bank, and he goes into the water with the cock and he cuts off the head of the cock. And he used a certain kind of acid certain kind of powder, I wouldn't know the name which stopped the cock from bleeding, although the head was cut o ff. It stopped the blood. So, after he did some mumbo jumbo, abracadabra business, he comes out and he shows this person, "Your disease is gone. You were possessed by a spirit and here is the proof: that even cutting the head of the cock, it did not bleed." And this person felt better the next day. Do you see. That's what psychiatrists do. When they don't know what to do with you they give you shock treatments, which is very, very dangerous, or otherwise they give you tranquilizers or otherwise they give you placebos. Modern day witch doctors. In India, for example, you don't have midwives, uh umm midwives qualified as they are here. But it is normal in the bush villages that the barber's wife is a midwife. So a child is to be born, you know, and the woman is in labor pain. So the midwife is called and so she says to the family that there is something really wrong here and the child might be born dead. But there's one thing we can do, it is this, let us call the medicine man. So the medicine man is called and he takes what Muktananda uses, one of those [voices: peacock feathers] peacock feathers or other kind of feathers and he waves over, you know. It's a pity he doesn't use that to do street sweeping. Nevertheless, he waves the feathers and then he leaves and then the midwife says, "Ah, everything is right now," and the child gets born normally. So here the person pays the midwife and pays the [Bua?], the medicine man, and the midwife normally gets a kickback from the medicine man. Now that happens in today's society as well. You go to a doctor, and doctor refers you to a specialist and the doctor gets a kickback from the specialist. I know this because I have a lot of doctor friends in the medical professions, specialists and ordinary general practitioners and I know how they work. They tell me these things, they are personal friends. You see. So what's the difference. How much has civilization really advanced? Having push button appliances and motor cars that drive even without the driver, like the night rider [laughter]. Hmmm, that is not progress, not progress. And by all means have the creature comforts, why not, but man has been the same all the time. Man is the same during the time of Moses, during the time of Jesus, and during today's times has not changed a bit. Greed, avarice, covetousness, all that is still there, all still there. Shall we end now? It is late. Yes. Yeah. Oh, twenty five past ten. [Tape ends].

16. US 83- 36 ****End****


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