1. U S 83 - 39 NEITHER THIS NOR THAT, WHAT AM I? ... psychological chemistry. What is the biological chemistry? What is that makes me love you ? And if you are not there, what is the factor that produces hurt in my heart? Now, how can this be overcome? Is it a question of pathology? Is it a question of mental imbalance where I cannot accept what I have to accept? And if I cannot accept what I have to accept, how do I go about doing it? Let's meditate for a moment or two [tape off, then back on] Good. Ramu: Beloved Guruji, this question is in the form of a riddle. I am that which causes awareness to flow from the grossness of the lower mind to the un differentiated bliss of the superconscious. I am not mind, but upon me the mind rests. I do not move , yet through me all things move. I am neither this nor that. What am I? GR: Bullshit! [laughter] Ahh [Sanskrit] That you are. Who am I if I am not the mind? Who am I if I am not the body? Now what makes you presume that you are not the body and not the mind. What point of reference have you to tell you that I am not the mind and neither the body? Show me that point of reference. Ahh! When I say to myself, "I am that I am," who is this that I am that I am? Who is this Brahmas mi I am Brahma? Who is this that could say, "I and my Father are one?" Who is this that could say that I, as the mind and body, is non existent? Then what part of you is existent to make you cognize your non existence? You don't know, that is for sure. Therefore, I said "bullshit." Your mind is a reality, your body is a reality, and the spiritual self within you is a reality, but it is only the mind that could cognize its own realness which is also, at the same time, erroneous. You say I am this body. Now this body has been changing so much. When I was an infant like our little baby there, hmmm, then l grew up into adolescence, became an old man... uh, I'm not too old really. [Laughter] So this body is the same body, but over a period of time which you regard to be time has gone through various changes. Like putting on a little meditational tummy or whatever. So my reality lies in my body and my reality lies in my mind, but who is that which perceives this particular form of reality. The spirit that is within you, the Divinity that is within you, is non cognizable and neither would it cognize anything besides itself in its own cognition. In other words, the spirit cannot cognize itself and neither can it re cognize itself. So the mind says this is a handkerc hief. Why does the mind say this is a handkerchief? (Might as well use it). Why does the mind say that this is a handkerchief? Because my mind, or a certain recollection or experiences that has gone through me in this lifetime or even in past lifetimes , perhaps, make me cognize this to be a cloth, a piece of cloth to be used on my nose.

2. U S 83 - 39 Now, where does this come from? What tells you that this is a nose and that's a handkerchief? So you go further back all the time, because once you recognize the nose and you recognize the handkerchief, you still got to go further to ask yourself the question that who is saying that this is a handkerchief and this is a nose. Who is saying that. And when you find yourself saying that my mind is saying that, then you wi ll ask yourself what perpetuates this mind in this mold of having this particular kind of cognition. And like that you go on and on and on until you reach a point which is zero. Then only can you say, "I'm not the body." Then only can you say, "I'm not t he mind." And when you say I'm not the body and I'm not the mind, there again you go on and on and on asking yourself who is saying this that I'm not the body. Look, I can touch, feel, smell, taste, go to bed and make love, go to the toilet. Is the body then not functional? Of course it is functional. Then why do I deny the body? I deny the body because I feel within yourself or rather some force is feeling within myself that I am far beyond the body and the mind. Now, the greatest mistake that has been made or is being made by various theologies is the denial of the body and mind. Let's look at it from a different angle. Do not deny this body. Do not deny this mind. And do not deny that which cognizes the body and the mind. So how are you dea ling with yourself, then? We're still going to come to the cognitive factor. But at this moment how do you stand? You stand in the position of saying, my body exists, my mind exists, and the cognitive factor also exists, so therefore I am existence and being existing I can deny nothing. For I am that I am. Now, let's perform some operations. Any volunteers? I'll cut you up into pieces. I'll put your body there, your mind there , and your cognitive self there. Get hold of a knife for me, please. [l aughter] There is no differentation between your body and your mind and your cognitive self. The I that cognizes the very existence of this body and this mind is thought forms which we can call the ego self that is forever trying to preserve itself in th e cognitive factors of saying I am this handsome guru [comments and laughs from audience]. Bull. That I'm this brilliant brain and this spiritual giant. Who's saying that? That stupid ego self. Now, what is the ego worth? The ego is worth nothing, beca use it is just a formation of patterns which you have superimposed upon yourself through the various experiences that you have gone through, and that has left impressions. And those impressions is that which we call the ego. Now, I put my hand on this ta ble and I remove this hand. But an imprint is there. The hand is not there anymore, but an impression or an imprint of the hand is existing on this table. Get out your magnifying glass and you will see it. What reality is there in this imprint? This v ery imprint that cognizes me as a body, this very imprint that cognizes me as a mind. So my body and mind is totally dependent upon that imprint. And yet, what is the reality of this imprint? Nil. It's an impression created through patternings of experi ences.

3. U S 83 - 39 So now if I deny this imprint, or if I do not attach value to this imprint in bringing about the recognitions of the existenc e of this body and this mind, then I am basing... you got to change your... let's find a joke. You know, there was this lunc heon at one of the embassies, and a Chinese gentleman was sitting at the table and next to him was this young Englishman. So the Englishman somehow got the impression that the Chinese gentleman could not speak English. So during the dinner after the soup was served, the Englishman, thinking the Chinese man could not speak English said, "You likee soupee?" The Chinaman just smiled. So after these dinners, when it comes to embassies I've been to many of them so I know some of the people there are re quired to give a speech, you know, say a few words. So quite a few had to say something. And then the chairman or whatever you like to call it WC to me it doesn't matter called upon this Chinese gentleman to say a few words. And this Chinese gent leman gave a beautiful talk filled with wit and wisdom. So as he was sitting down amidst this wonderful applause, he turned to the Englishman and said, "You likee speechee?" [laughter] Yes. So I, with something that has no substance but which has just c reated an impression there, presume that this mind and this body is real. So now, what have we done so far? We are accepting the reality of the mind and the body, and, at the same time, we are denying the mind and the body. Because both are true. You ar e not the body, yet the body; you are not the mind, yet the mind. Then what is your reality? And how are you going to prove this reality to stupid scientists ! [laughter] I beg your pardon, Dr. Viernstein. How are you going to prove it? You can only prove it by inference. Or by the very factor that reality requires no proof. It exists because of its own existence. The only time you can prove reality is when you have a reference point. And if you do not find a reference point and where can there b e any reference point as as far as Divinity is concerned. So existence proves itself by its very existence. Can you see the air that you are breathing now? But you are conscious of the factor that you are breathing. Conscious, or perhaps non conscious of it. There's no such thing as unconscious. Non conscious and conscious. I wish I can get hold of Jung. I know what I'll do to him. [laughter] Castrate him! There is consciousness and non consciousness. Non consciousness means you are not aware. And conscious means that you are aware. Now, what proof is there of awareness. Does awareness require any proof? Does the light burning there require any proof that it is burning? Its very act of giving light is its own proof. And that these stupid s cientists don't want to admit. Do you see. So we come to the point of asking ourselves that does everything in life require to be proved. No. You do not need to prove anything. Because when it comes to the highest level, you need a point of reference, a nd the highest level being the one, without a second, cannot have a reference point. I exist, I exist, because I exist. That's all. And because I, th e

4. U S 83 - 39 real me to which I have no reference point exists, I can only refer it back to a grosser level of the mind and the body, which finds its existence in that which I cannot prove is existing. So I'm taking the highest factor in life and bringing it down to the grossest factor and [defying?] [deifying?] [defining?] t he grossness of the grossest factor to that level. And that is what I could compare things with. But when we reach the point beyond comparison comparison ahh! Beautiful word. You're pairing up things in comparison. There have to be two to compare. But what if I want to exist as I am in m y full totality, then will I not lose the idea of comparing myself to anything else? And the very moment I lose the idea of comparing myself to any subject or object, that is the very moment when I will lose the ego self, that imprint that is existing in my experience. Or the impression of the experience. Then where will I be? I shall be incomparable. I shall be the source of existence itself, which I am. Not in reality, but in actuality. For reality changes from day to da y. What is real to you tod ay might be unreal to you tomorrow. You see. But when I become actual, when I become the source and recognize that source within me, or the source recognizes itself, then I will say, let me enjoy this body. Let me enjoy this mind, for it is a product of a collection of impressions. And if they are there, let me make the best use of it. So here we are fusing two factors. The fusion lies in the fact that that which is created by impression or maya or illusion is brought into reality, and reality is conv erted into illusion. So I make the best of both worlds. If at this very moment I feel like getting up and embracing you, I'll do it. And there's no force or power in this world that's going to stop me. But I'm not going to be attached by an impression. For example, let's see what example we can use. Say I loved a woman very much, I was deeply involved with that woman. Fine. And she has left me. She has jilted me or died or whatever or jumped in the lake. Now, is she there or is she not there? She's dead, we know. But is she there or is she not there? She is there because you think she is there. What makes you think she is there is because those impressions, those experiences, and you are reliving something so far in the past which has no reality t oday, which has become an illusion. Because she is not there. I have developed a dependency upon her when she was there. So what am I living on now? On dependencies. Now should I as a man or a woman or whatever not get rid of these memories, those impr essions? Should I not start a different life in such a way that automatically those impressions will be obliterated? Now if this would happen to me, I wil l go out and find myself a beautiful girlfriend, that's for sure. Because I have my physical needs as I need to go because everything is biological as I need to go to the bathroom. I need food to eat to sustain this body. I need some comfort, I need peering, looking deeply and floating away, melting away in my beloved's eyes. For I am existing with a reality, which is my body and my mind. Though in essence it is unreal, but for the moment of three score years and ten, let me do the best with it I can. Why not. Who would deny me that right? And why should it be denied to me? You think all thes e

5. U S 83 - 39 organs we have are there just for the fun of it or for the show of it? You think I have ears and I must not hear? Or I have eyes and I must not see? Or a nose and not smell? Or any other organ of my body that has been there created through an evoluti onary process and not to be used. Why should I not use every organ in this body of mine to its fullest value? Honestly and sincerely, not lustfully or selfishly. You see. So these monks with all their monkey business say become celibate, become this and that, become this and I don't know what all. I say, "become yourself!" Be yourself! You agree with me, Professor? Voice: Ya. GR: Be yourself. How can I make myself be myself? Ahh! How can I make myself be myself? And the answer to that riddle is so simple. Do you know that beautiful hymn which I like very much, lead thou me on, kindly light, one step at a time is enough fo r me. Don't you know that beautiful hymn? What's wrong with you Americans? [laughter] Lead thou me on, kindly light, one step at a time is enough for me. Like that it goes on. We'll try and find it in some song book. I t's very beautiful. It's my fa vorite hymn. Right. I've forgot the words because I've absorbed the meaning. There's your secret. Absorb and forget that which is extraneous. Why load yourself up with the words. But once you absorb the essence, you don't need the words. What can I d o to make myself into what I want to be. Firstly, I must admit to myself that I'm living a fragmented life. Part of my mind is pulling that way, part of my mind is pulling that way, part of my mind is floating up there in Chicago and another part somewh ere in some heaven or some hell or [????????] which has no existence in reality. For if my wife dies tomorrow I don't even want to know where the hell she is. I'm sure she'll be in Heaven, because she goes through hell with me [laughter]. It's no job l ooking after a guru. Nevertheless, that's besides the point. Admit to oneself that I'm fragmented. Lead thou me on, kindly light to integration away from fragmentation. Let me be whole. Let me function in this life holistically. Let me not find any mor e the discriminatory factors between body, mind, and spirit. Let me regard it to be one continuum. And this continuum, after finding through spiritual practices and meditation, when you find this continuum of yourself, mind, body, and spirit, this contin uum will extend and extend and develop so much that the entire universe becomes you and you become the universe. So then what importance would dear Lata assume in my life? She was part of my existence for a certain period of time, we served each other well , we did the best for each other, and the body had to drop away so it dropped away. What can I do about it? Am I going to mope about it all the time and make this little life that I've got left I don't know how long I'm going to live two years, five yea rs, ten years, fifteen years and make those few years that are ahead of me into a living

6. U S 83 - 39 hell and a misery? Because every thought you think in a miserable way is definitely going to affect the one that I have loved and that is not here with me. So I am doing her a disservice, I'm not doing her a favor. Because my misery while she's in a different dimension.... I'll find another joke. You know, these damn tapes has to be three hours long, I don't know why he got 20 minutes. He's putting it through A merican channel something. You know, this chap was proposing to his woman, and he says, "My beloved, let us get married." A soft little look on the face, a melting away, let us get married. Are you listening to me, Audrey? [Voice: Yes.] GR: Good. [ Laughter] "Let us get married, it'll be so beautiful, but do know one thing, that look, I'm not a rich man. I just barely make ends meet, but I can support you most probably, you might have to help a bit too, sometimes. But that's not so important, is i t. I love you, that's important. Look, I'm not like Jack. He's got a yacht and two Rolls Royces and he's got that big mansion and all that, but I'm poor. But I love you." So she says, "Yes, honey, I do know that you love me very much. But tell me a b it more about Jack." [Laughter] This other guy was going on a holiday and he was chatting with his pal. And his friend says, "Look, your vacation is coming up, and what are you going to do on your vacation?" So he says, "I'm going on a Caribbean cruise ( remember Audrey, that's in store for you). I'm going on a cruise." (Within two months time. Sorry the interruption.) So the friend asked, "What did you do last year?" He says, "Last year I went on a honeydew cruise, and I didn't like it." So the friend asks, "What do you mean by a honeydew cruise?" So he replies (don't laugh before the joke is over), "Last year I stayed home and every couple of minutes the wife says, "honey do this, and honey do that." Yes, so existence and non existence, what am I going to do about it? I'm both. I am existing, and at the same time, the impressions which I'm existing upon is non existent. So here, someone I love had to depart through no fault of mine. I've done my best, so has she. So what am I going to do about it? Mope? Get myself into a mental tizzy and become dizzy? Like this guy, you know, in circuses you have the cannonball, the human cannonball. You have it in this country? Right. So he goes to a bar in England we call it a pub. What do you call it here? [Voices: Bar.] Bar. Yea, so he goes to this bar and he was having a few and he met someone sitting next to him and they started chatting. And so this fellow asks him, "What do you do?" So he says, "I'm a human cannonball, and I've come to the bar to ge t loaded." [laughter] So let me tell you this, that 99.999% of your problems in your mind are self created without any damn substance. So that which you have created without substance... very easy way out of it pull the chain! [laughter] [END SIDE ONE ]

7. U S 83 - 39 That is the secret of life. Forget the past. It is gone. Do not project yourself into the future, it might not be there. Bu t live for this moment, Audrey. Live for this moment. And then you'll preserve your physical health, you'll preserve your men tal health, you'll become integrated in mind, body and spirit, and you'll enjoy life. For life is joy. So, as I always say, enj oy the joy. Why deny yourself of that beautiful joy of this so called existence when you can have fun. What's wrong with fun . Enjoy it. But be honest and sincere, that's important. If I should kiss you I don't know which one I would be doing it with total honesty and sincerity and without any thought of lust. Because in that peck on your cheek or wherever I'd be imparting to you something that you need. And to change your entire lifestyle and make you appreciate that which you think is suffering. And change it in such a way, very sweetly and beautifully. That's the way we function. I always said gurus are dumb asses. [ Seems to be taking off mike. GR is talking in background, but at very low levels.] [TAPE ENDS] **** END ****