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1. SA76-14 Gururaj: Good. Who will start us today with questions? Public: May I – may I ask you questions about the moment of realisation? Gururaj: Moment of? Public: Realisation. Gururaj: Yes. Public: < 0:00:20.7 > understand that – umm – realisation is proceeded by much effort so that eventually some – it gets to a point where < 0:00:32.3 > and one gets to the point where one realises the whole < 0:00:38.3 >. Now what I’d like to know is what prompts the self to realis e itself as being – now being the self < 0:00:53.3 > Gururaj: Since the first primal spark of creation, man contains that divinity that is within him, contains it and theologies would say that that divinity would try to express itself and all the methods that are used, all the paths that are used towards the expression, the path is the expression and when the expression merges itself in its totality, in its primal source, that is regarded to be realisation. Now why is it necessary for anyone to become realised? People can carry on in their routine lives. What is there that prompts one or inspires one or urges one to find realisation? Man, though he might not know it, is urged ever onwards to find realisation because basically man is unhappy. His unhappiness extends through various fields of his life. His home life, work life, life in the environment, life in society and there he finds that he is not fulfilled. There is always a discrepancy. There are very few people today that could say, honestly say I am very happy in my job. There are very few people that could honestly say I'm very happy in my home life. There are very few people that could honestly say that I'm very happy in my environment and in my society. Right, so he has found through the teachings of the ages that to find this happiness, it is not necessary to change the environment, but to change oneself and this desire is within him, it exists within him even if not at a conscious level, but at the subconscious level there is this desire and it is for the fulfilment of this desire for the search for happiness that he seeks self realisation. Self realisation means a total integration of mind, body and spirit and that total integration, that self realisation is synonymous with god realisation because when man integrates himself, he also at the same time integrates his small self with the big self, so there in the diversities that were in life, in the incongruities that he experienced, he has found now that which is unity amidst all the diversity.

2. SA76-14 Now the compelling force, where does the compelling force exist in man? That compelling force exists in every cell of our bodies and in every cell of the subtle matter we call mind. Now mind too can be divided into various facets. You have the conscious mind, then you have the subconscious mind and you have the super conscious mind and it is the force of the super conscious mind that spurs one on, spurs one on. Now there is no particular location where the subconscious mind is or the conscious mind is or where the super conscious mind is. They all form part and parcel of each other as a whole but we use these terms just for the purpose of explanation. They – these three aspects of mind are forever interpenetrating each other. Now when people do certain kinds of spiritual practices to find integration through various other movements in the world, what they do that they are stirring up things and the impressions that are in the sub-conscious mind. The sub- conscious mind as we have always said contains the memory box of millions of years of existences and millions of years of experiences. In Sanskrit we call it samskaras, we can for our purposes, call them impressions. Now by using methods that stir up these impressions without resolving them can lead a person to many kinds of problems. We start off by trying to create a balance, but a greater balance comes to the fore, all the animalisms that we have in us, we have been through the animal kingdom, so therefore the nature of animalism is also in us and by doing certain kinds of practices instead of subduing the animalism, we are waking it up because --- because in the practice , the super cons ciousness is forgotten. Now we have various methods used by psychologists and psychiatrists that try and fathom the subconscious to go deeply to the roots of problems, but what is the use of analysing darkness? It does not resolve the problem. Analysing darkness we would only find and know it to be darkness. The element that is missing is the light of the super conscious. Now how do we draw upon the light of the super conscious to get rid of the darkness? With our methods of meditation, two things are happening. On the one hand we are bringing to the fore those hidden sub conscious impressions and at the same time through guru shakti, we are stirring and drawing upon the super conscious. So on the one hand the impressions are stirred up from below and on the other hand the power that is drawn from above, from the super conscient – from super consciousness, the stirrings of the sub-conscious mind is subdued and no stressing is felt. That is the purpose of gurushakti. Now these things have to happen for a person to reach enlightenment, self realisation. The sub-conscious with its impressions of millions of years could be called as darkness and we are infusing that darkness wi th the light of the super conscious so the darkness disappears. Now we have psychiatrists and psychiatrists for example I hope I'm not bringing this up because we have a psychiatrist here. A person like Dr. <0:10:01.4> is very successful in his treatments because of his deep study of the super conscience – super conscious. He could impart that to the patient while many other psychiatrists examine the darkness only and draw forth from the sub-conscious which could be very – very terrible. So there the problem is not resolved, it is not resolved. Even if a man is brought face to face with a problem and he is not shown a way how to get rid of the problem, if your face is dirty and you look in the mirror, you will see the dirty face. So what w e – what the

3. SA76-14 psychiatrist also has to do is to show how to wash the face so when you look in the mirror again, your face is clean. Now two things happened there that you don’t only clean the face, but the mirror too could be dirty. The mirror too could be dirty so in the process the face has to be clean and the mirror has to be polished. Now how do we do that? How do we do that? The only method, the royal method that must be used by psychologists and psychiatrists even before they practice is to study and develop the ability as Dr. <0:11:42.2> has done to be able to infuse the person and his problems with the super conscious. So all of people in this world whichever work they do, they can be carpenters, professors, bricklayers, street sweepers, they too could develop the ability to impart the super consciousness. A psychiatrist would do it on a higher level. A street sweeper on a lower level, but it is also a contribution to society at large and the best way to contribute is to find the balance within ourselves first and then to have the method to impart it. So for man to be happy and to reach the state of self-realisation, it is a necessary must that the three aspects of man, the body, mind and the spirit must be used as a whole, as a totality and all unhappiness in this world, all imbalance in this world is because we are not using ourself as total beings. Now totality might not be achieved overnight. Remember you have millions of impressions in that subconscious of yours and all those impressions, samskaras has created a turbulence there and the subconscious with its turbulences must influence the conscious mind in the various actions of life. A person does wrong, we always say we do not condemn the sinner but the sin, fine. Now if a person does wrong, say he murders, steals, robs, whatever, what makes him do that? But if we have the strength in ourself to ask that question and find the answer, we will develop the ability to love that person because we know that certain acts are done because of mental compulsion. The impressions of the sub-conscious mind are so powerfully portrayed in the conscious mind, in the waking state that that poor man, that poor sick man cannot help but do the actions that he is doing and when we understand this, we can learn to love everyone. Man basically is good. Man has the divine spark in him, the divinity permeates every cell of his body and mind, there is no doubt about that but it is veiled – it is veiled. The – the –the combinations of the divinity through various aspects of his life influenced by the samskaras that are there make him act in a manner which might be anti-social. So therefore, to repeat, we do not condemn the sinner, we condemn the sin. And in the condemnation of the sin, we try and show which is the right path and the right path would be towards creating a balance, creating that integration which is self-realisation and self-realisation is god realisation. Okay Vijay? Fine. Good, who’s next? P ublic: Gururaj, on an earlier tape you spoke of the balance between the Tamas, Rajas < 0:16:07.6 > Umm — what – where is this that appears to be no possibility for correction of the entire population if this is so as one person’s progress a new cell were coming in.

4. SA76-14 Gururaj: Beautiful -- beautiful. Public: This is not a bad thing. Should we not hope for a general development? Gururaj: We should hope for a general development but we should not live in a fool’s paradise because man of 2000 years ago, during the time of Christ, is still the same man today. There might have been technological advances, but not necessarily spiritual advances. There will always be a percentage of people reaching higher states of consciousness, a higher stage of evolution, but to find that evolutionary progression with total humanity would be an impossibility. In possibility there are people that <0:17:28.3> an age of enlightenment where everyone will be enlightened, but if we study past history, we have seen that this has not been so. Man still expresses his basic instincts, in the same way that he did 2000 years ago. Now as far as the three gunas which you spoke about, rajas, tamas and sattwa, they will forever be existing. Rajas, tamas and sattwa, the three gunas too are eternal. If we regard divinity to be eternal, then the manifestation of divinity, rajas, tamas and sattwa are eternal too. Being the manifestation of an eternal manifestor. Now rajas, tamas and sattwa are the qualities that govern the working of all natural laws, now in the progression of a person, in the progression towards self realisation, what happens is this that he is not destroying rajas, he is not destroying tamas, but in his life sattwa is dominating. Sattwa is predominating and rajas and tamas are not destroyed, but they are subdued, they are subdued so that they do not gain presidency in his life and the person that lives a sattwic life in whom the guna, the – the attribute, the quality of sattwa is dominant, his life becomes more and more happier. So we that are bound by natural laws must of necessity and necessarily live and be governed by the three guna. But here how do we make sattwa dominate? We make sattwa dominate by our practices. By our practices of meditation morning and evening and throughout the day, a conscious effort by trying to do things that are right. The only thing that distinguishes man from animal is his intellect and even a person who is not endowed with a high intellect, he is still endowed with common sense and he can recognise what is right and wrong according to his level of development. So if he is sincere and honest to himself, he will act in that manner according to his development and action for one man might be good, the same action might – for another man might be bad, it depends upon his understanding and as man progresses in understanding, as man progresses in his mental conceptions, his power of discrimination would also increase. This is also a path to self realisation. So being embodied beings living in the relative field of life and being governed by the laws of nature, we can use the same instrument of the mind and the intellect to gain to reach the stage of self-realisation. This instrument of the mind we – we said it is very cunning, this instrument of the mind can make one reprogress and it can make one progress. So by our

5. SA76-14 meditational practices, as our minds become finer and finer, then automatically the sattwicness in us will come to the fore and when sattwa comes to the fore, the – the inertia of tamas is subdued. Inertia, tamas is darkness so the light of sattwa overcomes the darkness. It does not destroy it. Now when we put on the light in this room, can we say that darkness is destroyed? Darkness too is still exist, darkness exist in spite of this light being there because if we switch off the light, darkness is there. Where have we destroyed it? We have subdued it with light. So the opposites will always be there. Where there is light, there will be darkness. It is like a coin, you cannot have the heads alone, you got to accept the tails as well. Right but what do we do with our lives? Are we going to lead it through darkness when the light is there and it is so easy for us to switch on the light? And that is what we do. That is the purpose of our practices and to live in light is happiness, to live in nascence `or darkness is unhappiness. One takes one to self realisation while the other stagnates one or even reprogresses one. Okay <0:23:50.1 >? good, fine. Public: < 0:23:53.3 > Gururaj: Evil and good are only conceptions of the relative field. What we have to do in our evolutionary progress is to go even beyond evil and good. Is to go beyond evil and good. But while we are in the relative field, we accept the conception of good and evil because these conceptions are those which stabilises man and stabilises society and for that purpose of the recognition of evil and good, all religions and theologies have their commandments. Now how to overcome the evil, how to subdue the evil? Evil and good can also be synonymous with the gunas. They are synonymous with the gunas. We allow good to dominate, then evil is subdued perhaps not destroyed. A good transformation can take place not in the evil or the good, but in the expression of it in man's life, so man is transformed. Man becomes more self-integrated. Now a sick person, an imbalanced person, mentally imbalanced, he might not have the conception of what is good and what is bad. What is his position? What is the position of a man that cannot recognise the difference between good and bad? Because he has some mental aberration perhaps. He cannot cognise the difference. What is his position as far as self realisation goes? His position would be that his action because of not having the consciousness of his actions, he would not be bound karmically. His lif e will be lived in a stagnation which will not be reprogression and neither will it be progression. But for that man too, no hope is lost because we do believe in another life to come and he would have his chance again with a balanced mind, with a reasoning mind, with an intelligent mind where he can discriminate between good and evil and in the discrimination, we let good dominate our daily actions, our daily lives and that is the path to happiness. Okay now? Good, fine. Public: < 0:27:14.0 >

6. SA76-14 Gururaj: True – true. Public: < 0:27:25.8 > Gururaj: True – true that is very true how to define what is good and evil. Now i think we discussed this last week that what could be good in certain circumstances might be evil in other circumstances. I think we used the analogy that in western country, in South Africa, monogamy is the thing which is regarded to be good and polygamy would be bad. But you might go to other countries like Tibet and elsewhere, Mohamedan countries for example where polygamy is supposed to be good. So the definition of good and evil is dependent upon the environment and the man’s relation to his particular environment. Now this too of course is from man’s point of view, but from the divine point of view there is no good and there is no evil. There is only equal. Here from down here the – the ocean seems very – very turbulent, the waves are rushing high, but if we go up in an aeroplane, then from there it would seem calm. So it depends upon our perspective, our perspective tells us what is good and what is evil. The higher we go, the vaster the view. The higher we go, the vaster the view and in the path of evolution when we reach very high, everyhtng would appear the same. Then discrimination too won’t be needed because we have now in the absolute state gone even beyond discrimination. So discrimination too is an instrument, it is a tool. A child of standard one does not need to worry about the lessons of a person in BA. We that are in Standard I, we worry about the lessons of Standard I and we try to do the best. Now all the children in the class are not equally intelligent but they can be equally sincere. One child can get 90%, while another child can get 40% but the important thing there in living this life is not the percentage we attain, but it is our sincerity. Have we got 40% or 90% as a total person, have we put ourselves sincerely and honestly into the situation that brings the value that brings the progression. Alright? Good. Public: Another one I want to ask is – umm — what is the effect of < 0 :30:46.7 > Gururaj: The effect of drug taking. I have been told that certain experiences could be had using drugs, but these experiences they could be very high experiences. I think those are the terms they used. They can feel very uplifted but the upliftment is temporary, the upliftment is so temporary that when a person comes down from the trip, comes back from the trip, he is not left with a sense of well being. He would feel more depressed – more depressed and more uncomfortable because his experience was temporary. What effect could that have on the person’s mind? I've also heard it being said that a drug taker because of the experience he had spurred him onto genuine non-chemical means of search within himself. Now, so there too for the drug taker, no hope should be lost because if his mind can be guided to the very same experiences and better ones that would have a permanent value, a more joyful value and if this can be shown in, then his desire for drugs would

7. SA76-14 be lessened, would be lessened immediately and we have found, we have found in our meditational practices that people with all different kinds of habits, their desire for the usage of various kinds of things become diminished, more and more diminished because their systems mind and bodies become more refined, becomes finer and they would find taking of grosser things very <0:32:57.2> to them. They would <0:32:59.4> away from it gradually and that happens. So true for the drug taker, there – there is no hope lost, there are no hope lost and in this modern world people want things instantly as we always said and it is a misconception that to take a drug will give them self realisation, that is not true, it could be more harmful to them, more harmful, it could destroy many of their brain cells for example, it could destroy their bodies because they are becoming dependent on something artificial. They are not dependent upon themselves. Now spiritual practices makes one dependent upon oneself and independent of external things of grosser things, that is the purpose. So it has been proven by scientists that people doing meditational practices do live off drugs, they do go away from it gradually because with the sense of independence developing in them and not having to be dependent on anything else, they have gained strength to push away the – the drugs. The – the <0:34:28.1> (laughs) okay? Good, fine. Public: Bapuji. Gururaj: Um-hmm. Public: You mentioned about destroying brain cells and that thought occurred to me < 0:34:44.6 > talking recently about – umm – the progress, the physical body, now apparently you from the time you're born, you – your brain cells really start decaying < 0:34:56.3 > but atleast they – they reproduced and they (laughs) yeah, they reproduced to the age of about 30 or something, 25 or whatever it is, perhaps you should know, and thereafter starts declining. And what I wanted to know, is there any correlation necessary between spiritual maturity and physical maturity? Would you find that enlightenment would occur and some people who made this claim < 0:35:21.4 > it occurs generally so between 30 or 40 or what – something like that. Could you find it happening before or very – very late when say the physical maintenance of this really is about ready to shut down. Could it happen? (Laughs) Gururaj: Now -- Public: < 0:35:43.1 >

8. SA76-14 Gururaj: (Laughs) A person’s spiritual status, his evolutionary status is not dependent upon physical maturity. If we study great personages in the history, in history, we will find that very young boys from a very early age are spiritually enlightened. They might have worked very hard towards that end in previous lives and when you talk of physical maturity, a boy of 15 or 16 is quite matured and so is a young girl. But when you talk of the age of 25 or 30 or 35, you’d be referring more to mental maturity. Now what is mental maturity? I have seen people of 70 and 80 that are still immature. Mental maturity comes about by creating this balance in the mind to use the mind harmoniously with the body and the spirit. That is mental maturity . Mental maturity is that that one has also developed a certain amount of discrimination which is not dependent on intellectuality, but he has developed a certain amount of discrimination whereby he could view something in as a whole. He could view the object as a whole and in its total value. Now to observe something in its total value can only be done by a self realised man but the mentally matured man would find some appreciation of the total value of the thing. The self realise d man will not only see the total value of the thing, but he will live the total value of the thing, he will become one with the object, the subject becomes one with the object and experiences the totality of the object in that oneness but does the self realised man. But the mentally matured man will find appreciation of the total value of the thing. He will not only look at the flower, but he will look at the vase as well and the water in it to make this beautiful display. That is the action of a mentally matured man, the mentally matured man would always find a balance, a balance in the object and also a balance in the subject which is – which is himself. Now to find balance in the object, one has to first be balanced within oneself. There is no other way. So even to find the – the slightest appreciation of the totalness of the object, we have to strive for the balance and totality in ourselves. Now this happens by degrees, by stages and that is the purpose of all our meditational practices whereby we gradually develop that mental maturity. Now there – if there are any imbalances in the mind as we know it, or the expression of it, then to strengthen that, we infuse the spiritual self of ourselves into that to strengthen it. We bring that light into the darkness and that is how a man becomes mentally matured. Mental maturity is a prime condition towards self realisation. It does not mean having great powers of the intellect. It does not mean you have to become an Einstein, it’s not necessary – it’s not necessary because in the limits of the intellect, if divinity is infused in it, then that limited intellect also becomes limitless and it is not necessary to express it in verbal means or in analysis which the intellect does all the time, but it has an experiential valu e for the mind then too is fully and totally permeated by the spiritual self by divinity. So to recap on your question, physical maturity is not an entire must towards self-realisation. Mental maturity, mental balance is one of the pre-requisite conditions to reach self-realisation and when the mind becomes more and more balanced, it would definitely affect the body. it would bring a greater calmness to the body because it would appreciate the body too in its higher values. And this is done by the infusion of the spiritual self, the divine self of man and then finally the body, the mind and the spirit becomes one in total

9. SA76-14 integration and when man is totally integrated, he becomes integrated with the entire universe. Then he can say, “Ah, I have the universe in the palm of my hands,” and that is possible. That is entirely possible and within the range of every man within the range of everyone sitting here. Within the range to reach the self-realisation that is required to do this because self realisation is god realisation. If god – if god is omnipresent, that means it is to the extent of the universe and if self- realisation is synonymous with god realisation, then the universe is identified with me. I am and the universe are one and that is the end and aim for all these striving. We are striving for that and then we will say, all this is that, all this is that. Okay? Public: < 0:43:30.8 > enlightened people and for those people have reached this stage of enlightenment and there’s no need for them to be reborn again. Where do they go on from there on? Gururaj: If a pe rson reaches the state of enlightenment, where does he go from there? < audio skips > where for him to go. Public: < 0:43:56.7 > Gururaj: The – the realisation of the self-realised man is this that I am here. We not being all there must be somewhere else (laughs). The stage we are reaching for and striving for is to know that I am here and this can be appreciated by man’s total involvement in the moment. Then he is centred. We operate off centre – off centre. If we put an excel in the wheel and if the hub is off centre, then the wheel does not run smoothly. It jumps on the road, it jumps on the road. So what we are trying to do is to become centred and centring is nowhere else but her, always there. So what we are trying to find is, come away from there, what we are trying to do is, come away from there and to come here because our progression, our evolution is from here to here. We go nowhere. The air in the balloon after the balloon has been bust or pricked, the air becomes one with the outside air, it went nowhere (laughs). Beautiful okay (laughs). Public: < 0:45:53.9 > Gururaj: Pardon? Public: I said to be beyond ourselves is to be < 0:45:59.5 > Gururaj: < 0:45:59.8 > beautiful yes (laughs) yes.

10. SA76-14 Public: But it’s a complete merging. Gururaj: Its a complete merging, yes – yes. Then we realised the full value of here. We realised the full value of here. I believe in Africa H-E-R-E also means <0:46:17.0> means lord. Then we realise here the full value of herer. Public: I just know something gururaj. Here I think in Egyptian language meant He means eternity, Re means light. Gururaj: Light. Public: So it means to be in possession of the eternal light. Gururaj: Eternal light. Public: < 0:46:35.7 > Gururaj: Beautiful – beautiful – beautiful – beautiful, very beautiful – very – very beautiful. Public: Is that related to Sanskrit Hare perhaps which is supposed to -- Gururaj: Not necessarily. Public: No? Gururaj: No. Public: Or Harish? Gururaj: (Laughs) yes, yes, yes. Good. Public: < 0:46:58.0 >

11. SA76-14 Gururaj: Please – please do. Public: I’m interested in the voice of conscious – conscience yes, not consciousness one so often hears, know shouldn’t do this or just little <0:47:12.2> is this the experience? Is it a – a voice and experience which is contained in your entity from possible past incarnations? Gururaj: Yes. Public: What is the magnet? How does this function? Gururaj: Yeah, the voice of conscience. What are the mechanics of the voice of conscience? Now to – to – to reply that, we would have to analyse what conscience is. We have to analyse what conscience is. Now once conscience represents the totality, the totalness of the man at his present evolutionary status. The totality of the man at his present evolutionary status. The – that conscience would tell you how far you have now travelled on your way to Salsbury. You have reached Johannesburg and this city and that city, that now to be able to draw on ones present state of evolution would be the greates t stepping stone to further progression. To have cognition to know how far I am on the path will map out to us how further more to go. Once we map out how far still to go, we would be facilitated in finding the best and easiest ways and means of going there. But now how do we reach the stage where we can listen to the voice of conscience. Most people are deaf to that voice, their ears are closed to that voice. Now as we, through our spiritual practices go deeper and deeper to the level s of the mind, as we go deeper and deeper to the finer and finer levels of the mind, there at its finest level where everything is totalled up in our sum of life, there one gets the balance. There one sees that two and two has made four and four and four has made eight. The answer of the voice of conscience is found there, conscience speaks from that level to where we have reached and if we can sincerely listen to that voice, then self realisation is around the corner. Then self-realisation is around the corner. Many people confuse the voice of conscience with the little thoughts whirling in their minds. Thoughts that were conditioned by their own thinking and by their own desires and by their own selfishness’s and their own wants and then they say, “oh, a little bird told me this,” “A little voice came up in my head and told me this.” But is it true? Is it not imaginary? Are we sufficiently progressed in our practice to really cognise that voice of conscience and we are all reaching that, we are all consciously or unconsciously reaching the level where I can speak to myself. When I speak to myself at its finest level, there resides the voice of conscience. There resides the truest guidance for any decisions I am to make because the decision that guidance can only be progressive can only lead us in the right path, can only make us flow with the current of nature and not against it and that is the voice of conscience. The voice of conscience resides within the deeper layers of

12. SA76-14 ourselves and there it sits as king but we ignore the king. We ignore that king that can command us and guide us what to do, what not to do and it’s always for the good. So with our practices as we reach deeper and deeper and deeper and finer levels of the mind, we all will hear the voice of conscience as many of our meditators are hearing it now when they come and tell me, speak to me of their meditations, we sum up the experiences and truly there are some of us here who can really say that I hear the voice of conscience which is always for the good, always for the benefit of themselves and the environment. Okay Bob? Fine, good. Next? Public: Guruji you say that when ones environment one is here now but – umm – < 0:52:57.3 > having the awareness in different places at the same time, yet again its < 0:53:06.1 > how is ones awareness that there < 0:53:12.5 > hearing everything they used to hear < 0:53:17.8 > Gururaj: True right, I see what you mean, I see what you mean. You must have heard the saying that god resides totally in the smallest atom and god resides totally in the whole universe. Now this sounds very paradoxical because how can you fit the immensity of the universe in a single atom? So therefore we find this paradoxical. Now this can be experienced, perhaps it cannot be intellectualised but it can be experienced and all the is-ness is contained in the here-ness. The whole universe is here now. If you analyse the atom, the mechanism in the atom is exactly the same as the mechanism that operates this whole universe. Now we want to find self realisation within ourselves and it is the identification of this I with the universal I that will show us, that will make us experience the universe in its entirety here and now and at the same time, the – we will not be oblivious of the atom because in every petal of flower, in every petal the whole universe resides. We confuse in this paradox because of time and space. We look at things from a special value that 12 inches is bigger than 2 inches. Yet that 12 inches can be contained in a fraction of an inch because in order to experience that, we have to experience it from a different dimension and as the mind expands, as awareness grows, we experience things from a different dimension which is beyond the space and time. In that dimension space and time becomes non-existent. Space and time are creations of our minds but in the realm of beyond the mind which we do through our meditations, when we go in meditations, we go beyond the limitations of the mind and by going beyond the limitations of the mind, we are going beyond the limitations of space and time and in that state, in that state the whole universe is found in the atom. Everything is here and now, there’s no distance because distance is space. There’s no tomorrow, there’s no yesterday because that is the limitations of time created by ourselves by our own minds. So to experience, to have the experience and to realise the meaning of the paradox, we have to go beyond the mind. Okay? Right.

13. SA76-14 Public: Gururaj, umm – you’ve just answered the problem the question I wanted to ask you three weeks ago and I haven’t asked you yet. Gururaj: (Laughs) Public: Umm— once concept of time –umm— I always thought of it as being a railway line running straight – straight and the present is where you're sitting on the track right now, the future is ahead of you and the past is behind. Gururaj: Behind. Public: But reality, is it not so the past is right next to you and so is the future? Gurura j: Beautiful – beautiful – beautiful, yes the – the past and the future is riding beside you on your train journey because really speaking the – the – when you speak of the limitations of space and time, then from the relative point of view, we are travelling, but from the absolute point of view, there’s no travel. Absolute is complete and in the completeness of its completion, where is there to go? Therefore we say we have to be here, therefore we are trying to be here. In that realm no journey is required. Journeys are required in the relative field, not in the absolute and what we are trying to do is find the value of the absolute with our limited minds, we are trying to define that which is an impossibility. The infinite cannot be comprehended by that which is finite. So when we go beyond the limitations of the mind, there we find the infinite which is inexplicable, unexplainable but realisable and experienceable. Then in your train journey you go nowhere because there’s no train and there's no you and there's nowhere to go (Laughs). Public: What about here? Gururaj: (Laughs) Public: Gururaj, may I < 0:59:25.9 > Gururaj: Please. Public: If you take an ant < 0:59:28.5 > for the ant to move from my head to my feet takes time.

14. SA76-14 Gururaj: Right. Public: But for me I'm there at the same time. Gururaj: Same time (laughs). Beautiful – beautiful (laughs) lovely – lovely, good yeah. Public: < 0:59:49.2 > Gururaj: You want to speak about < 0:59:58.9 > (laughs). I discourage people going to spiritualism because it will help man nothing, it will not aid man in any of his spiritual aspirations. It will not aid man. Why go into something firstly a disembodied spirit that has found no rest is an unstable spirit. Now by spirit here I mean the subtle body of man. The subtle body of man be cause of his intense attachment, because of his intense desires, he cannot free himself and because of the intensity of the attachment that he would r oam around places that are familiar to him, that were familiar to him whe n he was in the embodied state. Now for our personal spiritual progress wh y should we take the assistance – why should we take the assistance of an unstable subtle body wh en we can pr ogress to stability by finding th e stable element within us. The real search – the real search – the real path of progress is not external, real path of progress is internal. The search should always be internal although we have to use external means, but the using of external means they are regarded to be guides. We guide ourselves towards the inward path by the observation of the outward path. Now if we have to use, it is not given to all to search within himself, its not given to all to – to study on his own, he needs a teacher. Now if we are looking by external means, the inward path, then let us use a teacher, a good teacher, a stable teacher and not an unstable spook (laughs). Public: Bapuji what about these people who seem relatively humble or to – who do communicate on that level, they always have a name or not a voice, but often they have names that <1:02:48.9> and what they say generally is – is what one would expect to the highly evolved person. Of course you get the lower – the lower ones, but there’re also people who – who generally do seem to bring true wisdom. Now with a highly evolved person act on that level they become incarnate again. Gururaj: Now – now what happens is this that in the name of spookism, in the name of guides, lot of commercialism has taken place. A person writes a book and says that this book is dictated by a spirit. Now perhaps in some cases that could be true and in many cases it could be a better way, easier way to promote a book. So we have to be careful if it is genuine

15. SA76-14 or not genuine, but let us take the case of a genuine being, say a genuine spirit, where does that spirit come from? Now we discussed this one day here that within man exists the memory of all his past lives, within man the memory of the past lives is there. It could happen, it could happen that a person perhaps unwittingly can call upon one of his own past lives, it could happen that a person consciously can call upon one of his own past lives. In that past life he might have been a very knowledgeable man and the thoughts he had is still existing in his samskaras, in his subconscious. So it is possible for a person to subdue the conscious mind and let the memory box of a particular life spill out and that many would be called that I am possessed by a spirit and every word I say is by a foreign entity. Now no foreign entity can mess around with this entity. It is impossible. It is impossible for any foreign entity to possess this entity which is you. What can happen is this that you might have a glimpse of one of your own past lives and bring it out to a conscious level through words, audible level, that can happen. A person might have had a past life in Egypt, a person might have been a highly – he too in this life would be highly evolved, fine. In a past life say he was born in Egypt and he might have been a high priest where he did many practices and had gained knowledge, had gained some knowledge and it would not be impossible for that person to subdue his conscious mind now and let the mind, the memory box of the past life dominate and give forth very – very beautiful teachings. A man might have been a wonderful doctor in a past life. If that person is advanced spiritually now, if he is advanced – highly evolved, he can use the experiences he had in a past life of doctoring, he can use those experiences now in this life. Sometimes we say doctors are gifted, some doctors, with a touch they can heal. Wh y? Why? Two doctors go to university, gained the same knowledge, go through the same syllabus and both could have the same IQ, but the one would have a touch whereby he infuses his medications with the meditations of a previous life. Therefore it is more powerful. Therefore it is more powerful and more effective. Public: Guruji is that what you – what – what you say again is what happens – umm — with the healing groups< 1:07:57.5 > Gururaj: Now – now – now the healing groups the common method that is used by healing groups is this, they used thought force. People get together, think very powerfully healing thoughts and they direct those thoughts to a particular person and as I've explained many times before that thoughts are things, they – they are more powerful than anything that we observe around us and they can be directed to a person who is ill. The illness of the person is because of some form of imbalance and with this thought energy, healing energy that is sent to that person, that person’s body will create a better balance and that is what healing is all about.

16. SA76-14 Public: And can it be done from the spirits? Gururaj: Can it be done from? Public: From the spirit si de. Gururaj: Can healing be done from a spirit side? Public: I mean the spirits that are supposed to come through the hands to – to heal. The healing power is supposed to come through the mediums <1:09:22.7> Gururaj: That could also, that could also be a fallacy. The best way is for the person, the healer to draw within himself the spiritual energies which is as vast as the whole universe. If the healer is a channel whereby he can draw unto himself spiritual energies and impart it to another by touching that person, then healing does occur. But this we must not confuse with spooks, with entities living in the subtle bodies that comes through us to heal someone because those subtle bodies have not reached a state of realisation yet. They themselves need so much energy they got none for you to spare. There's – there's an infinite storehouse of universal energy that can be drawn by the person that has acquired disability and it could be passed on to help someone. Alright? Public: Guruji, < 1:10:39.2 > possessed by devils, this has been known < 1:10:51.5 > Gururaj: Yeah, its – it’s a story you say. Public: Yes, (laughs) < 1:10:55.5 > Gururaj: It could be a good story (laughs) a good writer can create that. We have science fiction too. Public: Bapuji you know even in the bible they’ve got few things, I don’t know much about but there’s some part where someone casts the devil out of a man into the pigs and they storm into the sea and that’s the end of <1:11:23.5> what is the meaning, what is the <1:11:27.3>

17. SA76-14 Gururaj: It could be very symbolic, there could be a lot of symbolism involved in it. Public: For pigs < 1:11:34.0 > (laughs) Public: Gururaj, perhaps the pigs were going to go for swim anyway (laughs). Gururaj: Beautiful – beautiful, yes (laughs). Public: Guruji I want to ask something really basic. Gururaj: Yes. Public: < 1:11:49.4 > question. Umm — < 1:11:52.3 > I do see that amongst hundreds < 1:11:59.4 > practices, two or three do not < 1:12:04.4 > anyway, they stopped and then spread the word that the guru that guru can’t help or that the technique was not right and so on and so on. Could you please < 1:12:29.2 > beginning meditators who listened to tapes like these. Just explain what perseverance me ans, what < 1:12:37.7 > the importance of it and how by persevering in ones practices < 1:12:44.7 > to what one can draw from the < 1:12:47.0 > Gururaj: In anything in life, nothing could come about. It could be a very mundane thing, even that could not come about without perseverance. Now in the spiritual field, the first requisite is for one to have a yearning, a yearning for wanting t o progress. If that is lacking then perseverance would lack. It has to be a strong desire to create a greater balance within ourselves for our own happiness and for our advancement. In the first place if the yearning is lacking, then the perseverance would not be there. The one or two people you are referring to are curiosity mongers. They don’t need spiritual practices, they don’t need gurus, they need magicians and that we don’t have. I’ve always repeated that we must not ever expect miracles. First deserve and then demand. First deserve and then demand, but there are some cases where a person is very deserving, there are some cases where the person is very deserving and they have really come to grips with themselves and have the yearning to better themselves, they have examined, analysed their actions and have truthfully and sincerely decided to make a turn towards betterment, towards greater realisation than those ones benefit the most. A child who is writing an exam, the child needs 40% to pass. Now the teacher knows that this child has worked very hard throughout the year and should have done much better but has only gained 38%, so the child is going to fail. But the

18. SA76-14 teachers access that how sincere this child has been and just because the child was not feeling well that day, he could not do the exam properly. So what the teacher does is awards the child those two or three marks extra and lets the child pass. Lets the child pass. Now in spiritual practices the most important thing is the guru’s assessment of the person even if a person has done something wrong and the guru feels that this can be righted and this person deserves ev ery form of help that is needed, then the guru will give the two marks extra and make the student pass. But when it comes to curiosity mongers that would do their practices half heartedly or not do them at all are the ones which are not deserving at all because if they do have sincerity, then that sincerity itself automatically draws gurushakti. As I said before, the guru is a channel and he has the ability to pour forth through him all the energies to the person that requires it. But now the recipient too must have certain qualifications. We can’t ask a teacher to make a child pass in matric when the child has not even passed Standard VI. It is wrong. The chela, the student too requires the qualification and in our field, in the spiritual field, the qualification is sincerity and honesty. If sincerity and honesty is not there, then they are nothing but curiosity mongers and miracle seekers and – and such people can receive nothing. They could receive no benefits, no benefits at all and by them not receiving any benefits, whatever they would say would be karmically binding to them because in the first place they have been insincere and dishonest. Okay? Right. Yes, shall we – shall we break for tea?


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