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3. SA77- 31 when there is two or more, could there be friction, but the self realised man is a person who is one with the universe, the entire universe is him, he himself and he is the universe. Now to such a man, killing does not effect because he would be doing it for a good purpose. Good. Tell you a little story there were, it’s a Zen story, there were a lot of chelas, seekers of truth sitting around the guru at a fire and they were discussing this and discussing that. All of a sudden, the guru takes a burning coal from the fire and jabs it onto this chela’s arm and caused a burn -- caused a burn. So they were all surprised that Guruji how can you do this? You’ve hurt your chela. So the guru says I know all of this man's past lives, I know his present life and I know what is going to happen in the future to him. What I have actually done is sa ve this man from a burning death. I have, through grace, alleviated that death that was to come to him by being burnt. Right. But that is in the department of the self-realised man, oh yes. People, the wayfarer has no right to take life. Good. Now we have been discussing this from a philosophical and metaphysical point of view, now sociologically it is wrong too. It is the duty of every person to see that the society or the world he lives in must become more and more stable, must become more and more stable. Now by performing actions -- by performing actions that are contrary to nature, by performing actions which he has no right to perform, then he is going away contrary to the laws of nature and thereby he is digging into the foundation of a stable society and that is why -- that is why we have laws and when it comes to killing, most countries have very -- very similar laws whereby the wrongdoer is punished. Now I am not one for capital punishment. If there should be corrective punishment, then it would be good, a rehabilitation program perhaps because the man that killed might be deranged. His mental faculties are not working properly. There is some imbalance. There is a derangement. Now if such a man could be put onto a rehabilitation programme, we might be doing something for that man to bring him to a realisation that thou shall not kill. We would bring him to that realisation. Now sociologically although there are laws that tried to preserve stability, but there are lot of things that are wrong in these laws and they should be amended in such a way that greater and greater stability could be found. Now that deranged person, if he is brought to good realisations, that one little act will help society because society could be a collective whole but remember, society is formed by individual units and it is by changing the individual units, that society can be bettered, a better society can be created. Good. Now we come to the question of war. Right! One person w ho kill someone we call him a murderer. Another person kills a hundred men with his machine gun, we call him a hero, patriot. But is that not murder too? Created for what purpose? Created for preservation as man individually tries to preserve himself -- himself, his little ego, so a country as a whole also wants to preserve itself, not realising that these are all man-made barriers who says this man is a German and that man is an Englishman and that man is an American and that man is an Australian?

4. SA77- 31 Who says that? Man says that. Divinity or the self realised man would say we are humans -- we are humans. So many people are forced into these circumstances and believe you me, behind every war the basis of every war is economics, that’s all. Economics is the basis of every war. One country creates war, declares war upon another, why? To increase its territory, by increasing its territory, the country becomes richer, more resources. Fine! Not only that, while the soldiers are fighting elsewhere, greater employment is created in the country, all economics, that's the basis of war. If we had our way, all wars should be stopped. Unnecessary, it is not happiness producing. Not happiness producing. A bread winner is killed in a war, fine. He has wife and children that are dependent upon him, not only financially but emotionally too because of that deep love so that man is killed in war and the -- the -- the governors of the country, those that govern the country gives the wife a little subsidy as if that could make up for the loss of that life. So we live in a world that is not very -- very much spiritually oriented, that is the fault and that is the purpose of our foundation, to bring this message to the world that turn your eyes now towards spiritual things rather than material things although materiality is also necessity but it is not the end or goal, it is just something that is necessary. People have to buy bread, they have to have shelter and that cost money, yes. But when it is steeped with greed and the desire to accumulate more and more and more, then this immorality comes about and we justify it. When man learns to take his side not outward, but inward, then he would find the true meaning of life. Then real truth is found and that is what we teach by our meditational and spiritual practices is asking man to dive within himself, seek ye first the kingdom of heaven within and all else shall be added and it is only -- it is only by this, the spiritual practices and meditations that we could better ourselves, create a greater harmony within ourselves and the necessity for killing would not be there then. To reca p -- to recap on your question is killing justified? We say, “No”. Okay? (Laughs ). Public: < 0:19:55.1 > Gururaj: Whoever. Public: < 0:19:58.1 > Guruji, in the case of where soldiers go t o war, they do not want to kill. Whose is then how is that you have at the back of that, the country that made him go to war, we say it’s the aggressive country, would that whole country karma have to be borne by the country or by the leaders of that country who organize that war? Gururaj: Right. Now we talk of the karma falls upon the leaders of the country that organise the war. What do they do? They -- you get drafted as the Americans would say and if you don’t go, you get thrown into jail and this has happened

5. SA77- 31 many a times, it has happened a lot, yes they do that. But now the karma that is drawn onto the country by the leaders of that country, they would suffer a lot, but with them the population too suffers. Is it not -- is it not said that sin falls upon so many generations, father sins, mother sins, yeah. Public: < 0:21:21.0 > Gururaj: We’ll -- we’ll come to that, right. On so many generations sin falls and this is the true meaning of it that the actions of the leaders of a country, leaders of a country are the fathers and mothers of a country and through them, because of the karma drawn to the country, other people suffer also, but then in that suffering, there could be some evolution if people develops the right attitude, as we said just now of turning inward, fine. Then that very suffering will produce evolution, will evolve never collectively, but individually they do evolve. Public: < 0:22:14.1 > Gururaj: True, those that fight in defence what are they defending? What are they defending? They are defending their country, yes. Good. Who made the country? Man made the country and said this is Germany and this is America and this is Russia. So it could never be justified, but yet -- yet defence is necessary, defence is necessary against the aggressor. A bunch of hooligans enter your home with a -- with the intend to rob and -- and to kill this that, it is the man's duty to defend his wife and children, yeah. And -- and in that defence, in that defence if the robbers get hurt, he is not bound karmically, he is not bound because he is doing something for a good moral purpose. Hurting the one robber there who is of evil intent is better than to allow your wife and children which are innocent to be hurt, yes -- yes. Defence is a different matter altogether. Any person is entitled to defend, oh yes, must -- must. There must be defence but the defence should be for an altruistic purpose and not a selfish one. Many crimes are perpetrated in the -- with the excuse of defence. That would be wrong -- that would be wrong but if it is real defence to protect, protect those that are weaker, then its okay, fine -- fine and that is also in a way how to keep society stable. Okay? Public: Guruji is it possible that a person has been killed < 0:24:36.1 > ? Gururaj: Hmm? Is it not possible for a person that has been killed that he has failed a karmic death? Very good -- very good. Remember as I've said in one of the talks that with man’s free will, there is a divine will. Many people -- if something happens, many people think this is an accident. There in the scheme of things there are no accidents, no accidents,

6. SA77- 31 everything has a purpose and it could be true that the man who has been killed would perhaps rid himself of a lot of ba cklog of karmic deaths, fine. That is from his point of view. But the point of view from the killer is that he is accumulating karmic deaths. So to everything there are two sides, the whole universe functions on a certain balance, once karmic death goes down, the other ones go up, yes. Always a balance is created because without balance, this universe cannot function. This universe cannot function without a certain balance. Sometimes evil increases, evil increases. Now when that happens in the world then a personage is born of great spiritual power to preserve the balance. So if you read the Gita, it says -- Krishna says that when evil increases, I take birth in human form from age to age to preserve the balance and to lessen the evil and those are great teachers, like Rama, Krishna, Christ, yes. Okay. Pub lic: Guruji < 0:26:17.1 > about Hitler. Gururaj: What about Hitler? Public: < 0:26:50.4 > Gururaj: The? Public: The opposite of < 0:26:55.0 > Gururaj: Oh yes, yes, yes, yes he killed, Hitler killed 6 million Jews, it was not a good act. Public: < 0:27:05.8 > Gururaj: Yes, now we don’t say Hitler is right . Public: No I don’t -- I < 0:27:14.4 > Gururaj: Yeah good (laughs) Public: < 0:27:18.0 > say about him?

7. SA77- 31 Gururaj: That he -- he was not right, he was a deranged man. Public: Yes, but how can you explain it? < 0:27:29.3 > Gururaj: He will pay -- he will pay, in his next life he will pay. It is not -- it is no joke to take millions of people and throw them into a gas chamber. He has no right to terminate people's lives. True. Public: But he felt he was right. Gururaj: He thought -- a madman thinks he is right, but he is not right really (laughs). Public: < 0:27:55.2 > Gururaj: Pardon. Public: < 0:27:57.7 > Gururaj: Oh yes of course, yes. 99.999% of people in this world are imbalanced. Yes and -- and -- and a person can only achieve total balance when he reaches self enlightenment in his 100%. Next? She's waiting for a long time. Public: Gururaj you said there are certain < 0:28:24.8 > does not or cannot charge for your services? Gururaj: True. Yes, there are certain ethical teachings where the guru does not charge for his services -- umm -- there are many reasons for that. Firstly, let us take it from an economic point because we are discussing that. Firstly, because he has no necessity, right. He has renounced t he world; he is in the world but not of it. He has renounced, he has no necessity. Now in the east it is traditionally so that the chelas go to the guru to learn, they go to learn and the chelas find it their duty that they would look after the guru, they will go out begging those days as they were mendicants, beggars because the chelas too renounced to a certain extent until they become realised and they would provide nourishment for the guru. They would help to provide shelter for the guru. Now that is not made as a charge by the guru, that is an offering to the guru, no charges are levied at all. Good. Right. So the guru being a renounced person, to him a king’s feast or a dry

8. SA77- 31 piece of bread is the same because he is not attached, he is not attached. He is a person who is non-attached. Good. These things don’t become of importance to him. They don’t -- they don’t. Secondly, spiritual teachings cannot be sold, spiritual teachings cannot be taken, spiritual teachings are always imparted. What does the guru impart? Not only knowledge for the intellect, but he creates an impulse, he stirs the human soul, he stirs the heart by his grace and strength, he can do that. Don’t we find it here people tell us always that they come to a Satsang in the morning and they walk out elated? They walk out happy? A change takes place in them? Why? What happens? It is not only the knowledge that is given, but the shakti, gurushakti that is imparted, because a true guru is nothing but a channel. He has acquired the ability to draw to himself universal energies and passes it on with love always, with great love. That is why a guru cannot charge. There can be no price for love. Right. Thirdly, to give spiritual teachings or impart that impulse, that impulse of love that is given, we know, as the saying goes God is love and love is God. So something of the divinity of God is imparted, can the guru sell God? He can’t -- he can’t. If the guru, we find this happening a lot in the world, there are gurus and gurus and gurus, they make a charge -- they make a charge. Such gurus, if they are very well versed in philosophy should become university lecturers and professors and not gurus. You cannot sell God, you cannot sell love, you cannot sell spirituality, you can’t. You can only give -- gi ve -- give and the more opened the recipient is the more the recipient receives. The guru is like a well, bring your pails and fill the water, bring a small pail, you take little water, bring a big pail and you ’ll take a lot of water. If you bring a thimble, you take a thimbleful, yeah -- yes -- yes. So the impulse is created. A communication, a link, therefore I never give lectures. When you lecture, you tell what you want to tell, right. You prepare any comments say this and that -- that. Here we have Satsang, a communication, a discourse where any question is asked by a sincere seeker and an answer's found. Most of the times I'm not even aware of what I'm talking about, I speak from a completely different level and its only Mondays when they bring the cassettes to me, I listen to them and I say, “oh did I talk about that?” yes, yes. Now sometimes you have, there are categories -- there are categories fine. Say there's a yoga teacher, he or she teaches yoga asanas right for the physical body, that person does not claim to be a guru but a yoga teacher, right. And as a teacher, the person can make a charge -- can make a charge to provide premises to provide all the facilities which he or she has to pay for, there’d be nothing wrong in that. I think the Bible s ays that the labourer is also entitled to -- Public: Worthy of his hire.

9. SA77- 31 Gururaj: Worthy of his hire, something like that. The Bible says that. A guru is a different thing altogether, different altogether, not -- he's not a teacher in the normal sense of the world. Okay? Public: < 0:34:51.4 > you got a man who may take his own life because he feels, in doing so he is protecting another or he feels he may betray another. You have the old Japanese idea where people would commit suicide to -- Gururaj: < 0:35:0 1.4 > Public: Yes, or to go with their < 0:35:10.1 > and you have the coward who commits it. So could you please tell us something about that? Gururaj: I gave a long talk on this subject a few months ago; you have it on one of your tapes Vijay? Yeah so if <0:35:22.8> like to borrow the tape that it would save repetition because these tapes go all over the world and -- and many people might not find as getting the same thing all the time. Nevertheless, just to brief very briefly, that a person that commits suicide suffers more intensely in the subtle form than he would if he had to die naturally because the -- the coward, the suicide before taking his life, he goes through mental agony. He goes through mental agony. Now when we discard the physical body, what still perpetuates itself until self realisation occurs is the mental body, the subtle body. In Sanskrit it’s called the sukshma sharira, the subtle body is perpetuated. Fine! Now the subtle body is composed of all those thought forms. Now we know that anything which is subtle is more powerful. Good. A big bomb -- a big bomb can perhaps breakdown half a dozen buildings but a small atom, if it is split can destroy the whole city. So whatever is subtle is more powerful. Now -- now the thoughts the agony the person suffers when he takes his life being perpetuated in the subtle body becomes more intenser -- more intenser than when he was embodied, but in the subtle body, it becomes much -- much -- much more intenser because it is now being dealt with those feelings and those thoughts are now being - - are now being dealt on a more subtler level Good? Okay fine. Over there, that lady there. Public: Guruji could you please tell me what the origin is what I am trying to say is this if < 0:37:45.3 > now there are millio ns and millions they all have so uls . Gururaj: True. Public: Now were all those souls there and that they took physical body or have they -- were they born such < 0:38:08.8 >

10. SA77- 31 Gururaj: Beautiful question, beautiful -- beautiful -- beautiful. To repeat your question, in the beginning of this world there are few people and now there are millions of people, where do they come from? Are those new souls being created? Or are they old souls coming here from somewhere else? Fine! Something like that. Good. Now a soul is never created. A soul is forever eternal -- a soul is forever eternal and it has to go to its deeper level of its own source. Now that source of soul is eternal because we can call it God. It is infinite, it is eternal. Now soul, that word is a very tricky word, it’s a very tricky word because we have to define what is soul? We have to define what is soul? Now Sanskrit is a language that goes into greater definitions. Now if soul is atman -- atman I'm sure you have heard the word atman, fine. Then the individuality of a person is not the atman but a jevatma, fine. Now if we refer to the soul as jevatma, then we would be limiting the soul as an individual entity. Now the atma in its universal aspect is infinite. Good. So with the three aspects of man, body, mind and spirit, we cannot say, I always use the word spirit instead of soul, yeah. Good. Now we cannot say that your spirit is different from my spirit or different from that person's spirit. No, it is this one same universal force, we can call it God. One same universal force and that universal force has no origin. That universal force never started. Being eternal, it never had a start and not having had a start, it will never end. Good. What ends is the jeeva. So when we talk of individuality, we must remember that the jeeva is the thing which enwraps this divine energy which enwraps the spirit. Good. Now where does the jeeva come from? Where does the jeeva come from? There are many theories f or this, it is -- it could be called the unsolved philosophical question because it cannot be appreciated by the mind because our minds as we know it and the 10% of it that we are using cannot define or can never be appreciated the origin of the jeeva, good. Now what is the purpose of it all? The spirit is eternal, unborn, undying. Why ? Why these little jeevas that created these little individualities? When a person reaches self-realisation what happens to him? He discards his body, he might live a while so that the momentum could spin off like a top, the momentum spins off, right. He discards his body and later on, that’s the gross body, and later on as he evolves, he discards the subtle body as well and he becomes one with the spirit. That is self-realisation or God realisation. Why we say self realisation and Go d realisation is the same? Because God is self, the essential, the essence of myself is God, the only thing that prevents God from shining completely through are these two sheets, the subtle body and the grosser body. Fine. Now there -- there are, as I said, many theories explaining this. Some would bring in a theory of Adam and Eve, another would bring in another theory of creation. Right, another would say that in the beginning though there being no beginning, things operate in cycles and that is a contribution to the world's knowledge by vedic philosophers, vedic sages. They maintain that one cycle begins and when it ends goes into pr alay into a stillness then from there another cycle starts. But

11. SA77- 31 even in the stillness -- even in the stillness, the calmness, the pralay of the preceding cycle, there is a current and because of this current multiplying itself, intensifying itself, it creates this new cycle. Now remember the spirit is eternal, it ’s never destroyed. Only these cycles change, one ends another begins, that one ends and the third begins. So if we go far back millions of years, millions and millions and millions of years, we that are composed of these two bodies were there too and so many cycles of millions and millions and millions and trillions o f years ago. So accentually we were there. Some philosophers regard our existence in different forms, not necessarily the human form. Our existence as a superimposition upon the spirit; that is the monistic philosophy a <0:45:40.5> where they say that it is only the spirit that exist and the rest is an illusion, maya. I think we had a long talk on that a few weeks ago, on maya. Good . But there would be another school of thought that would say that even illusion must have a basis and that basis is reality. Now there if the spirit is eternal and immortal and if it’s omnipresent, there's no place for another reality, there can only be one reality. Good. Now where have we come from and where are we proceeding to? We have started here and we are going nowhere but here. Our concept of time and space is a manmade concept and it is manmade because we are limited to a certain dimension of life but if we go beyond this dimension, there would be no time -- there will be no time. It is all in a moment. The millions of years we spoke about is from our angle, from the relative angle -- from the relative angle it seems such a long time. Even a three score and ten years which a man averagely lives seems so long, yet from a different dimension it is not even a second. Fractio n -- fraction, just one impulse, one little explosion. Good. Then we have the modern scientists that come out with the Big Bang Theory where in this present cycle that explosion occurred and these millions and millions and millions of atoms have been sent forth forcefully. Where are those atoms proceeding to? It is proceeding to stillness before there was stillness and after exhausting the motion, they become still. So therefore religions would say we come from the source and we go back to the source because the stillness is the source. Now on the path of this atom fired by this energy, that energy we call God, fired by this energy it goes through so many different transformations. The atom changes, the one atom combines itself with other atoms and changes occur all the time and that is how different forms of life has started. The atoms would congeal and become mineral. The mineral would become plant, the plant life; the plant life evolves to the animal stage, from the animal stage to man stage where a certain advanced consciousness develops and from the man stage to the God stage, that is the purpose. So the changes we see is nothing but the propulsion at the beginning of this cycle and every atom, every atom has within it the power and the potential to become a realised man. So when we say -- when we say that some thousands of years ago, there were few people on this earth and now there are 4,000 million people , when we say that, what we mean by that is this that more

13. SA77- 31 beautiful, life becomes joyful and that is the duty -- that -- that is the inherent nature of man to enjoy the joy, to experience that beautiful pulsating joy that welds up -- welds up -- welds up all the time and its true expression is in the form of love. What -- what greater -- what greater joy can one experience than knowing what love is -- knowing what love is. Oh yes. Public: < 0:55:36.3 > how important is yoga ? Gururaj: How important is my work? Not important. Public: No, no yoga -- yoga. Gururaj: Oh yoga? Public: Yeah. Gururaj: Yeah, yoga is a very wide term and in many western countries when you use the word yoga people think of the postures, the asanas, the exercises. But that is only a small part, a fraction of yoga, just a small fraction of what we call hatha yoga, there are so many yogas fine. You have gnan yoga, which is the yoga of the mind intellect, discrimination , fine. You have bhakti yoga, the yoga of devotion and love, right. You have raj yoga which practices we teach, fine? You have karma yoga. Karma yoga is a person who does not want to know there's any greater power in the world or not or in the universe or not, he just wants to live a good life, do good, be good. That's all. He too evolves that way. So a person chooses a path according to his temperament. Now the yoga you are referring to naturally would be doing asanas, you hear d the word asanas, the postures, fine. Now that is approaching -- that is approaching the inner self from the external side, from the physical to the subtle body and then to the spirit. Fine! Now with meditation you approach from the inside, you draw upon the divine energy inside and allow it to permeate the subtle body and the gross body. So it is a matter of direction. The purpose of yoga i n -- in gymnastics, in ordinary exercises, what people do is just exercise their limbs, their muscles. With these yoga asanas, they are very scientific where great exercise, great form of massage for example; great manipulation is made to our glandular system, our inner organic system. So a lot of benefit accrues and after practice, even -- even starting it off as gymnastic exercises, a good yoga teacher, like we have Maureen here, she's an excellent yoga teacher, she has come down from Johannesburg, right!

14. SA77- 31 A person learns slowly to form a harmony between the mind and the body. So when the mind and the body functions together in that beautiful harmony of those exercises, then you become oblivious of the mind and body and you start dwelling in the spirit. Now if a person has the tendency of practicing hatha yoga, by all means we encourage everything, we do not discourage -- we do not discourage any form that could lead to a person's -- a person to greater peace. We would always discourage -- encourage that, yeah. So to say it again, it depends entirely upon a person’s temperament -- entirely upon a person's temperament. One person, you always start from where you are. If a person is in Standard V, it is no good starting him off at Standard VIII, he won’t understand. You start him at V, yeah. If a person is temperamentally a very devotional person, then we teach such person bhakti yoga. If a person is more intellectually oriented, then we -- we discuss philosophy and -- and try and enquire into the meaning of life and of creation and things like that -- like that, yeah. If a person does not care about anything else, if there's a divine power or not but just says do good be good, we encourage that person to do good and be good. Yeah, we show him ways and means. That's how -- that's how teachings are imparted and that's how teachings should be. If a person has the temperament to become a doctor, medical doctor, there's no sense taking that child and forcing him to study law. No, we start him according to his capacity, but one thing happens that as a person develops all these different yogas merge and even throu gh hatha yoga, the process might be longer, but even through hatha yoga, you go automatically spontaneously into meditation -- you go into meditation. Public: Guruji < 1:00:51.3 > Gururaj: You don’t need it first there's no such thing as needing it first, you don’t need to practice that at all, we can go directly into meditation and the guru would know who to start what person where. That is why we seek the guidance of a guru and on the spiritual path, one must seek guidance. Even a child, when he goes to school to learn to read and write, must have a teacher. Child too when he goes to school, to read and write, must have a teacher who will guide the child. Some people follow the method of trial and error, but that takes much -- much longer, that takes much longer and a waste of time, really. When facilities are available for the teacher to point out immediately, look this this -- this -- this. This is what you do and this is what you don’t do. Okay? Thank you, lovely.

2. SA77- 31 Now the point we are coming at is this that thought too is indestructible. Good, thought is indestructible and thought too in the form of waves are forever there. Now what happens to the killer, the murderer it is this that for him to have perpetrated this crime or have done this act, a lot of thought was involved. Good. Now those thoughts were sent forth by him and what happens is that those thoughts rebound on him. We’ve all <audio skips> so every thought that is thought is indestructible and it has a quality of rebounding because you thinking that thought have created a channel to the power of that thought and as it goes in that forceful channel, so also it can return and in returning, being a bad thought, the person suffers -- the person suffers and that always -- always happens. Now likewise with a good thought, you send forth a good thought and it rebounds on you in some form of goodness and that is basically the law of karma or as the Bible would say, “you reap what you sow”. That is the basis, the factual -- the mechanics of the saying “whatever you sow, you reap”. Fin e! Now it happens that the thought might not re bound in this lifetime, but eventually it will rebound on you perhaps in another lifetime, yeah. And then we ask the question why is one person born in a happy circumstances while another born in unhappy circumstances, we discussed this last week I think i t was when we -- yeah when we discussed reincarnation. Fine! So it is the man's thoughts all the time and his actions because the outer action is just a grosser expression of a subtle action which is thought. Now, I have said this many -- many times that t he extent of the mind is as vast as the universe. Good. The -- the mind is as vast and as infinite as the entire universe. So that thought or that action that has been done has no where to go, except remain in the universe and that is why having formed this link with that thought it will rebound. Fine! So the man that kills is not justified in killing because not only the act he has done, as I said before, if you cannot give life, you have no right to take life. Fine! So there's no justification, but he that perpetrates this crime suffers accordingly, he suffers accordingly and that is why we find in this world a lot of suffering. Now we have a habit of blaming it on others, if we can’t blame the husband we blame the children, the husband blames the wife an d then at last when they’re tired of blaming the world, they blame God that why have you made my life so unhappy? It is our action, we are responsible for every thought we think and every action we perform, every action we do. Now this is from a philosophical point of view. A self-realised man can take life and by taking one form of life, he gives life but that is the self realised, God realised man to whom there is no death and creation all the time because the whole universe is perpetuated by creating -- creating -- creating, good. And in this creation there is an underlying intelligence that governs it. Now that intelligence some people call it energy, some people call it God, call it whatever you will, but these principles are forever there. So the self-realised man that has become one with divinity and by becoming one with divinity, he has become divine himself because there are no two, he has reached unity and as I said before that it is only

1. SA77- 31 Satsang 31, 2 nd of April, 1977, Satsang 31 Public: Sorry, sorry < 0:00:11.2 > can you just tell me please Gururaj is killing ever justified? Gururaj: Is killing ever justified? Good. Firstly killing would imply death because when you kill, you take -- it mean that a certain person has died. Let us examine the question, is there something called death or is life eternal? Now the three aspects of man, the physical, mental and spiritual self, we know by experience and scriptures also verify this that the spirit is immortal in man. We used to think that the body dies, but modern science has proven today that even all form of matter is indestructible. So the matter does not die either but it dissolves and changes form and goes back to its original elements. Fine . So going on that theory, the same with mind because mind is also a form of matter, a subtle form of matter while the body is a grosser form. Good. So the three aspects that constitute man are forever eternal. The body changes form disintegrates into its original elements, the mind changes form as well and becomes even finer matter and the spirit is eternal. So from a philosophical point of view, there is no death, there is no death, but what happens to the person who kills? There is our question and is that person justified in taking life? Good. He would not be justified in taking life because he hasn’t got the ability to give life. Fine! Now the person who commits this sin or crime whatever you wish to call it has not the deeper knowledge or has not reached self-realisation to really know there’s no death, to him there is death because he wilfully perhaps, ends a life. Good. So he is not justified in taking life. Good. Now by doing this -- by doing this what will happen to him? Now we know according to the law of karma, every cause must have its effect. Every action performed or every thought that is thought, every thought that we think, that too is imperishable. I was telling someone this week that a poet writes a poem, fine and we say he was inspired, good. Was he really inspired and did he really create? No. He might have formed a synthesis of various thoughts that are floating about in the atmosphere. What the poet has done is this that he has attuned his mind and heart to those thoughts that are floating about and captured them, recorded them in the form of words because it is by words that one can communicate. Good. Like that -- like that even here in this room there are thousands of stations, broadcasting stations in the world that are continuously broadcasting and even those sound waves are here, but to be able to pick up the broadcast the music, the symphonic concept, one has to have the radio and not only to have the radio, but to be able to tune it properly to get good reception. So this is what the poet actually does, his system, any systems <0:05:04.3> of his radio in perfect working order and he tunes it on the right meter. Good.

12. SA77- 31 and more people are developing into manhood or becoming man. Right! From the plant, from the mineral to plant, plant to animal, animal to man. Now as the animal kingdom is developing into the man kingdom, there are other forces that are developing the plant into the animal and likewise the mineral into the plant because all these atoms are forever existing -- forever existing. Now there could also be an interchange, a planetary interchange. You might have lived on a different planet and in the process of your evolution you came to this world to learn. There are -- our earth is not even a grain of sand in the cosmos. There are millions of planets, millions of galaxies, trillions of universes. Good. So there is also an interchange because there are other planets where a similar form of life exists, perhaps we can -- we might not find them in our solar system, but there are so many other solar systems, other galaxies where a similar form of life. There are some planets where people are so advanced that verbal communication becomes unnecessary. Thought communication, I need to think and you will know. So there are higher and higher forms of life. We boast here on this planet earth that we are highest developed, no -- no, the man's ego says that he likes to feel there's nothing better than him (laughs). He likes to feel that but there are other planets where there is a much higher form of life. Oh yes! And through our spiritual and meditational practices, we can here and now, experience every form of life in the universe. That is one advantage we have, oh yes! Many people have these experiences. Sometime I would think of tea and -- Public: < 0:52:49.5 > Gururaj: And umm -- is it nearly tea break? Yeah and -- and the person would just catch the thought and -- and (laughs) yes, umm -- I’ll think of tea and I say, “How about some tea?” and he says, “Oh I've put the kettle on already,” like that. So we can experience. I'm giving you a little example, a little analogy but all these various forms of life that is far beyond man can be experienced here and now because this earth is a wonderful -- this earth is a wonderful school. We come here to learn -- we come here to learn and everything teaches us, everything. Everything is a guru, if we but open our minds and hearts, everything is a guru. We can learn from the ants, we can learn from the flowers that let my life too become as fragrant as this flower. What a wonderful guru, yes. We learn from -- we learn from everything -- everything. If a small lamp, if the -- if the sun gives light to the whole world, sometimes a small lamp can give light to a small room. Everything is there to teach us. We have to open our minds and hearts and that is what we do in our meditational practices where automatically our awareness expands and with it a simultaneous expansion of the heart because the development of mind alone can make a man a moron, that is what the world is leading to, intellectual morons I call them, but if there is a simultaneous development of feeling of love of the heart, heart and mind when they expand together, life becomes

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