2. SA77- 39 gap which people take to be the present but we don’t know how to live in the present. Now if we take the past and the future, that works in a horizontal line, it works in a linear fashion, horizontal line from A to Z, but the present works in a vertical line. The present has depth and height; it works in a vertical line. Now that vertical line is momentary, not even a moment, you can’t describe it but when one experience the present in its vertical aspects, then you have experienced eternity. That is eternity where the entire conception of time, as conceived by the mind becomes valueless and that is what meditation does for us. In that moment when we go beyond the mind, then you are living in the present. In that moment you have captured all eternity. Right. So it is in that fraction of a second that we experience the vertical line and that moment is eternity. When poets describe eternity, when they say that all time and space can be experienced in a moment that is what is meant. Good. So to get back to the mind, the mind has to be transcended to know what eternity is and if the mind tries to question eternity, that question is invalid and therefore a non- question. Good. So to capture eternity, infinity or God, divinity, one has to move, not in a horizontal sphere but in a vertical sphere. And to capture that, that little moment, that split second is so -- so important. Good, and it regenerates you in that split second and you feel that power of the vertical permeating the horizontal. If there are open electric wires you don’t need to touch them for an hour to feel a shock, just a secondary touch and you get the shock, that’s how it works, that is how the power flows -- that is how the power flows. So when a question is a non -question, when a question becomes a non -question, it is because the mind is trying to find an intellectual, logical answer of that which the mind could never conceive of. The mind can only tell you about things, but cannot tell you what the thing is and to know what eternity, infinity is, one has to experience it . People have millions of questions, all kinds of questions. Let me tell you a little story I heard the other day, its ironically humorous. Millions of years ago, time of creation and the planet was created and God created man, as the Bible would say, so God decided, “Let me come and live on earth and be with the people”. So he came to live on earth. The poor fellow was barely here for a week (laughs). Remember he's an old man. He's so old, eternal, comes from eternity. He was barely here for a week, right, and people started going to him with all kinds of troubles. It is this trouble and that trouble and that trouble and they made poor God's life a misery. So in desperation, after a long while, he stuck it out and so he called up his counsel of wise men, I can’t remember if I was there or not (laughs). He calls up his counsel of wise men and says, “What must I do? I'm pasted from morning till night. I too need some rest” So one wise man says, “G o and live on top of the Everest mountain”. God says, “That won’t work because tomorrow Hillary and Tenzing will come along (laughs) and I’ll be bothered there”. Now in our conception of time, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years seems to be so long, but in God's conception, cosmic time is -- million years is just a few minutes. So he says “Tomorrow Hillary and Tenzing will come along, everyone will know where I am and I’ll have the

3. SA77- 39 same problems again” Good. Then another wise man suggested, “Go and live on the moon”, he says, “No, that's no good, Armstrong will come along.” Who was the first man on the moon? Armstrong. He will come along and everyone will know where I am, then I will be pasted with the same problem so that is no solution. My question has not been answered, there’s no question. After thinking -- after thinking, one of his wisest advisors came and he said, “I tell you the best place Lord, where you can go. You hide within man, yes. (Laughs) You hide within man himself. Good, then they can’t find you (laughs) and you won’t be pasted” . Right! So he says, “But there are some people that can reach self-realisation and then they will find me,” but the wise man said, wise man said that “For man to find you inside him, that man would have evolved to a very high stage and then he won’t trouble you because he's too evolved, then he won’t trouble you because he has reached -- “, to reach God you have to become godly, right, like Christ said, “I and my father are one” because he had reached that high stage of ev olution. So when man reaches that stage, then that man won’t trouble divinity, he won’t trouble God. Good (laughs) yes. So the search remains, the search remains not on the intellectual level, the search remains on the experiential level and meditation and spiritual practices are designed to experience divinity. We don’t want to know about him because no one can answer that, no one can describe him. For every argument there will be a counter argument. For every question answered, a million questions will rise and all questions of the mind become no questions. So therefore we practice our meditation and gradually as we proceed and progress and gradually as we unfold, we experience the light more and more and more. It is like a paraffin lamp and the glass could be dirty, filled with dust or soot. So during meditation and spiritual practices what we are doing is cleaning the glass so the light could filter through and bring into our lives beautiful balance and integrated existence, a self-realisation that can know joy and joy and joy, beautiful joy. That's all what we’re after. So that is how a question becomes a non-question . Okay? Good, fine. Who’s gonna be next? Public: May I ask you a question Guruji? Are we dare -- are we going to dare to ask any more questions? (Laughs) Gururaj: Two things are happening -- two things are happening. It is this that the question is answered from the mind level to a certain extent. Fine. Where the question has a logical sequence, but that is not all -- that is not all -- that is not all a guru does. He also imparts a certain energy through the medium of voice, sound waves, through what he radiates. Some people can see the radiations, many can’t, but it would always have its effect. That light burns over there, it can burn, you don’t see the wires, but it burns. Switch it on, it burns. So there’re always benefits received, nothing is lost -- nothing is lost and if a person's mind is turned to the higher levels of life, the more beautiful, joyful levels of life, it is some little progress and questions would be asked and asked and asked until one day you stop questioning and then the answer dawns.

4. SA77- 39 That’s funny, it’s paradoxical but that's how it works, oh yes, where you question and question and question and every answer you get to any question, your mind will say “No not this, there is something more. ” Then you question again and then the mind will say, “ Ah , not this -- not this, there is something more” until you exhaust all the “not this”-ness and then the answer just dawns and that answer dawns by experience. You gain that experience where you start not knowing God, but living God. Then you live it. Then everything assumes joy, where you look at a person and -- and you just don’t see his physical and mental exterior, but you just see the divine spark within him, then how can you stop loving? You just love because divinity is in love with itself because the divine spark within you is the same divine spark within you. There is no separation and even physics today proves this point when they examine sub-atomic matter that there is an interrelationship, there is an interdependence and this has been said thousands and thousands of years ago by the sages that there is a complete interrelationship between all existence, every atom is affected, interrelated to every other atom and science has been discovering this now and they are just verifying scientifically what the mystics has said all along. Okay? Fine! Public: Gururaj Gururaj: Yes. Public: < 0:19:43.3 > Gururaj: I don’t get your question too well, the difference between reincarnation and various embodiments because reincarnation is also an embodiment. Public: < 0:19:58.5 > Gururaj: They are exactly the same. Public: < 0:20:05.6 > Gururaj: Every entity, every embodiment has consciousness. Even the meanest creature, even the lost animal also has a consciousness, good. Now consciousness would have various factors because man has reached a stage of discrimination of weighing because man has developed intellect. He can evaluate his life, he can come to a mental recognition that “ I

5. SA77- 39 exist”. Yeah, but the animal too, with its form of consciousness instinctively feels that it exists because of its instincts it also has its emotions and its spheres. So every embodiment whichever form it has taken through reincarnation, if a certain entity is reincarnated as a dog or a lion or a man, the consciousness, the pure consciousness is always there, but in a lower form of life that consciousness is not cognised. It works on an instinctive level and absolute instinctive level. While man is in a stage of transition, man is between God and the animal. In the stage of man, one has the greatest opportunities because of his intellect to be able to weigh pros and cons, to be able to find answers which the mind asks and from there when it gets tired of asking questions, it will know its self, it will go back to pure consciousness. Our consciousness is clouded like the lamp I mentioned, right. And all these quests we have is to purify the consciousness, to take off the dirt, the diamond is there covered with dust and through meditation, the dust is blown off when we will know that we are that pure consciousness and when we know that we are the pure consciousness, then individuality ceases and universality dawns. That is the stage when man reached god-hood, then he identifies himself with the entire universe . He no longer remains an individual. Individuality is the conception of the mind . It is only the mind that says “I am an individual” and the mind is empowered by the ego. Most of our problems in life begin by giving the ego all importance because it is the nature of the ego that it wants to preserve itself, it does not want to loose identity. So when the question cease -- ceases and the surrender comes about, wh en the ego looses itself, melts away, is subdued, annihilated, then pure consciousness shines through, individuality ceases and universality begins. But being embodied, one can live a universal form of life, be able to cognise the entire universe and yet being embodied, could live individually but his quality of life is so different, it can be so well noticed by the love he emanates, by the closeness he feels to everything. He looks at this flower now and the flower is separate from him at that stage he and the flower is one. So that comes through after all the questionings of the mind , after all the intellectualisations, a certain kind of surrender comes about where the ego is surrendered. The ego surrenders itself and then the pure consciousness shines through. Yes. Now this can be -- this can be understood to a certain degree by the mind, but to really understand this, to really know this, one has to experience this, therefore we have found great teachers in the past. For example, let us take Christ; he would not go into giving intellectual answers. He could say, “Believe”. Let’s take Socrates, for example, he would question your question and he would question you all the time until you come to a point where question cease and you just find the answer, that was his method. If we look at the Bible and if we look at the Gita and the Quran, they are nothing but assurgence. Christ would say. “I am the life, I am the way, I am the love” it’s an assurgent, it’s not an explanation. He wants you to experience what life is, what love is, what the way is. Same thing in the Gita, Krishna says that too, “ Come to me” he says, “Come to me”. Buddha had a different

6. SA77- 39 method. If you spoke -- ask Buddha a question about nirvana, he would remain silent and not answer it because it is not going to be useful. If philosophy cannot be brought down to practical day to day living, then philosophy is nothing more than mental gymnastics. It is of no benefit, no benefit whatsoever. Good. But philosophy can show us the way how to experience , philosophy tells us about things, but we, to really know the thing, we have to experience it ourselves. I cannot attain salvation for you. You have to attain it yourself, I can only show you the way. If you want to reach Cape Town Station, I can say “Down this road here”, it would not help you if I walked to Cape Town Station because you have to reach there, not me. Okay? So one has to experience these things for oneself and the basic requirement is the quest and even in the question there's a quest. That is why you question, because of the quest. So if you primarily have that sincere seeking, “seek and thou shall find. Seek anything and thou shall fin d” , I would add on the word anything, so the quest begins with us, a sincere s earch and all answers will come and that s earch could be done through many ways, questioning, studying philosophy, studying the scriptures, but most important, practicing, because only practice that gives one the experience. You ask a drunken man or a man that doesn’t drink rather, sorry, about the wine, he can explain you the wine, but its only the -- the -- the one that is drunk and intoxicated, he can tell you the experience of it or he will know rather, the experience of it, same thing with everything. A blind man will not know of colour, like that, it is -- there are many analogies to illustrate this. So embodiments are necessary and every embodiment, even a stone has a consciousness. It is the same consciousness, but the difference in the consciousness in a stone and the consciousness of an -- of a highly enlightened man is one of degree, one of unfoldment and that's what we’re after. Okay? Fine. Public: < 0:31:01.1 > Gururaj: Yes, by all means. Public: < 0:31:04.4 > desireless desire? Gururaj: Beautiful -- beautiful -- beautiful. Public: < 0:31:48.5 >

7. SA77- 39 Gururaj: Beautiful, how does one attain to the stage of desireless desire? Good. Let us ask who desires and what desires? Good. Now, If desires are for self-preservation, then we ask what wants to preserve itself. Good. We would fin d that the ego that is us is the only thing that wants to preserve itself. The ego will do all kinds of things in desiring for its self preservation and those desires could become, or are materialistic because they are selfish and selfish in the sense that it wants to preserve itself. The ego thinks it is an entity and yet it is a non-entity. It is changing all the time. The thing which is an entity is eternal, changeless; the ego is temporal and always changing. So the ego’s desires too will change and there all kinds of negativity can be born, it’s a breeding ground for negativity. The ego desires for its own pleasure and self-satisfaction, a million pounds, when he has that, he wants two million and then when he has that, he wants three million, all for its own preservation. Good. Now the ego necessarily is vain because without vanity, there would not be any sense of self-preservation. Good. So self- preservation is selfish. Good. Now if self-preservation is selfish, then those desires are binding, they bring about greater and greater bondage and more the bondage, more the desires would be created and you are in that wheel of samskara. Good. What to do? You are enmeshed in this wheel, circling -- circling -- circling all the time from one desire to another desire and each one fed with the fuel of self-preservation. Self-preservation brings along with it acquisitions, brings along with it greed, brings along with it vanity, vanity can bring lust. How to turn this desire into this desireless desire? That was your question, there is only one way, jump off the wheel, only way (laughs). Yeah, jump off the wagon. Yes, because while you're in this wheel you’ll keep on turning -- turning -- turning. Now desires too can be brought from a grosser level to a finer level. Now if you develop, use the same energy of those desires, use the same -- same energies of those desires and turn it a 180° angle, is that right about turn? Public: Yes. Gururaj: Yeah, if you give it a right about turn, then that same desire will not b e for self-preservation, but self-annihilation. Clear? Good. Same energy is used, nothing more or nothing less is required. Now the studies of philosophies, the company of gurus , of holy -- of holy men, they bring you to that stage where you would find that the self-preservation, this identity that I am Mr. so and so is not important. Slowly, gradually you are bought to a stage and the same energies within you are used not with desire, but not for self-preservation desire, not selfish desire, but the desire for freedom and freedom comes about by self-annihilation of the ego. Good. Now that is also desire, a subtler desire, a higher form of desire until -- until you even go beyond that and when you go beyond, even that stage of the subtlest desire and the ego is annihilated, then what is there to desire? The ego is gone. At first, you had the desire to preserve the ego on this other

8. SA77- 39 end of the line, the desire is to annihilate the ego and it is the ego that desires. So when the ego is annihilated, then automatically no desire remains, then the real you just remains. The self-luminous you, the ego is but a reflection of reality and therefore the ego is unreal, it has no substance of its own and when that is gone and you become reality, all the dirt is blown away, all the dust and the diamond shines in its own sparkle, in its own brilliance. Then there's no desire. So to recap, we take selfish desire, use the same energy, convert it to a selfless desire and from selfless desire we step one step more for me and there I am, self-luminous, self-realised and one with divinity. Okay Mel? Good, fine. Lovely! Who’s next? I think we have time for one more question. Public: < 0:39:37.9 > Gururaj: Very true, very beautiful -- very beautiful, yes. I've always said here that man today is a creature of conditioning. We are conditioned by environment, we are conditioned by circumstances, we are conditioned by the <0:40:28.2> but the real seeker would not bother himself of the opinion of others’ about him, what kind of car he drives or what kind of home he lives in, he is subject to conditioning. Now that is the biggest problem and that is the biggest suffering because we care conditioned, because we have to live in a certain manner, because we have to do this and we do not do this. Why? Not for ourselves, but for others. And by showing ourselves in a favourite light to society, we are preserving our ego and not our real self. So here is where sacrifice comes in, here is where some form of reasoning can help, some form of realisations can help. Now by meditation , why we cannot follow these ideas is because we haven’t got the strength. But by meditation as we become more and more integrated within ourselves, we become more stronger and when we become stronger, we can defy convention. I'm talking of moral convention, nothing that is wrong. We can defy convention, oh yes -- oh yes. There is nothing wrong with a person having a brown suit on and with black shoes; they don’t need to be brown shoes, shoes ar e shoes, they protect the feet, but because of convention, “Ah , if someone will laugh at me because you know with the black suit I should have black shoes, not brown,” these are conditionings and if we look at them factually and objectively, those conditions mean nothing to us, they are not evolutionary, they are rather devolutionary and when man gets the strength within himself, he can defy that convention that I cannot afford a pair of black shoes and I've only got brown, why must I worry and be concerned, I'm gonna put them on, its cold outside and my feet needs protection. That is the courage you get. That's what we need. On the spiritual path one has to have courage. You can’t be a <0:43:13.0 > (laughs). Yes, so -- so courage is required, strength is required, yes. And that is what spiritual practices give us.

9. SA77- 39 Now your question was very beautiful. These are the circumstances that all of us live in, we do live in that, but we require strength and courage to go beyond that. Oh yes, and when we go beyond that, then people too, because our lifestyle is not only for us, we can, even without doing anything, exert a lot of influence in the environment. I've always said every thought that we send out has some value. Positive thoughts have positive values, courageous thoughts have courageous value and in the environment when they find you to be un -- unconventional in a reasonable manner, I'm not referring now to -- to hippies that are lazy and don’t want to work and go -- go running around with bare feet, I'm not referring to such people. I'm talking the normal, normal average person, the good person, right. When he sends out courageous thoughts, it will affect his environment and the environment will see that “look how happy this person is, he has courage, he is happy, he lives his life the way he wants to live it in a good way, be good, do good principle he follows and he's so happy, let me try it too.” So sometimes by being unconventional, we can be very helpful to those around us because conventions deal in things which are relative, things that are changing all the time. Good. The mini goes out of fashion so they -- everyone must wear the dress below the knee, following convention -- following convention. Six months later, another fashion comes up; all those expensive clothes are lying there. Yes and the woman might not afford it, she will have many debts <0:45:50.8> yes, why? To follow convention because we subject ourselves to conditioning -- convention because we subject ourselves to conditioning which is not necessary. Let us subject ourselves to the conditioning of goodness and not the <0:46:20.4> and that's all what we are doing <0:46:25.0 > we’re showing off the exterior. What about the interior? Let us worry more of the interior, the exterior can look after itself in any case this -- this body perhaps we live 60-70 years, its -- its not even a flash in eternal time. Okay? So the more we worry about convention, the more egocentric we become, we become more and more centred in the ego which is forever seeking self preservation and the innerness in us is always trying to break down the self-preservation attitude of the ego and that is where the conflict rises and wherever there’s conflict, there's suffering. Its just so simple so easy. Wherever there's conflict there is suffering. So if we disregard convention and think of our inner self , think of unconditioning that mind of ours which is so conditioned and gradually through meditational techniques lead a deeper and deeper -- deeper within, then strength automatically develops and we can face the world -- we can face the world. Now the fashion says long skirts, “I've got short skirts, I don’t care I'm gonna wear them”, okay? Lovely, are you going to put on the -- shall we break for tea? Another question perhaps, I don’t mind. Public: Guruji I k now it ’ s possible in circumstances < 0:48:18.5 > the other way round. Gururaj: Yes.

10. SA77- 39 Public: How can we < 0:48:35.6 > ? Gururaj: (Laughs) Beautiful. You know the first part which you said is very -- very interesting. You said when two lovers are together, the hours just seemed like seconds, why? In things that we don’t like doing, five minutes seems like five hours, fine. It’s the old story of watching the kettle boil, takes a long time. Why? Because you don’t like standing, waiting for it, you wished it could boil instantly, but now you’ve got to wait and that waiting makes it seems so long. But now with the case of lovers, now in this value -- in this value, in this perspective, you are conditioned by time, you're watching time. Fine! But when the lovers are together that are deeply in love, they go beyond time, therefore, time is not noticed. They have transcended time, they are not subjected by time. In deep love, in deep embrace, one goes beyond the limitations of time. Time does not exist, as we say time stands still. So therefore when we say “God is love,” this is what is meant of that timelessness. I explained before how one moves the past to the future in the horizontal manner and the present in the vertical manner and in that second we experience eternity, this is what we experience in real love; this is what we experience in real love because it is beyond the bondage of time. This is experiencing eternity and love is the easiest way, simplest way to experience that eternity. Blessed are the lovers, the lover and the beloved, that can loose each other in themselves, then time ceases, then it is not only -- there's no separation, all separation ceases because time is another factor that brings about separation, right. And separation is cognised by the mind . Have you ever loved a man or a woman so much that the man does not exist anymore or the woman does not exist anymore in the embrace? You have become one -- one -- one -- one. Beautiful, there's no separation of the bodies -- there's no separation of the bodies because there's no separation of the minds and the minds are brought to a tranquil level and spontaneously and automatically love shines through, it blossoms forth. I know by experience (laughs) yeah fine, okay.

1. SA77- 39 Satsang 39 Gururaj: Fine! Now who will start us off with a question this morning? Public: May I ask you a question? Gururaj: Yes, yes, oh yes. Public: When is a question a non-question? Gururaj: (Laughs) When is a question a non-question? Is that a question? (Laughs). Yes, actually that's a very beautiful question. When is a question a non-question? Good. When the mind asks a question of something which the mind cannot conceive, then the question becomes a non-question. Now we know that the range of the mind is limited and of course one of the major factors of the mind is the intellect and when the intellect tries to analyse -- the intellect being finite -- when the intellect tries to analyse that which is infinite, then the intellect would not find an answer so the question becomes purposeless and therefore it is a non-question. But yet it is the nature of the intellect wanting to probe, to probe into the mysteries of life, wanting to probe into the existence of God, for example. Or wanting to probe what lies beyond the existence as we know it, as we perceive it, as we conceive of it. Good. Now this probe is good -- is good and it is because of probing that we do to some measure find certain answers. But now what happens is this that the answer given to the question will in turn pose more questions. Good. When more questions come out of the answer, then other answer given which in turn would pose extra questions. So the process would go on and on and on and the real answer is never found and the reason is simple, as I said before, the infinite cannot be comprehended by the finite. Good. The mind operates on a relative level, it starts from a grosser relative to the subtlest relative, but there is a gap, a so called gap for want of a better word in language because language too is limited and the mind has the habit of thinking in words and pictures. So how could the mind ever describe or appreciate by itself that which is worthless, and pictureless. That which has no form or shape or size, that which is not conditioned by time or space. The mind is conditioned by time and space. Good. Space reaches from one point to the other, fine. And the conception of time has been grossly mistaken, there is only a past and a future. There is no present as we experience i t. We live a life and we don’t know what the present is. Good. When we say past and in describing time, the second that we know of as the smallest unit of time is not the smallest unit of time because that second can be divided up into millions -- millions of fractions, but there is that little