2. SA77-47 those circumstances and those that are born in happy circumstances that person has also created and drawn to him, attracted to him, the circumstances which he has to face or the circumstances in which he is involved. So one definitely has to take into account the values of life. Now when we take these circumstances into account and when we take our present position into account, good then if we rationalise it, we will find that there is not a single circumstance that man cannot alter. Good. Now this alteration comes about by good right action. If a person is in unfavourable circumstances, he can definitely attract better circumstances to hi m, he definitely can if he plans his life in such a way where all his actions are right and he very consciously strive. So by doing the good actions he is creating around him a vibration and good actions always have a far subtler vibration and when one has a far subtler vibration, then the subtler vibration always attracts subtler vibrations. It is the grosser vibration that attract grosser vibrations. So it means that by our good actions, we can influence our circumstances and in influencing the circumstances towards one’s betterment, one looses the sense of desperation which the person with suicidal tendency has and that sense of desperation is lust, a greater integration comes about and when a greater integration comes about, then life becomes joyful and there is no thought of suicide. Good. Now suicide is one of the worst things any person can bring upon himself because all the experiences of this gross existence, of this physical existence could be felt far more intensely in the subtle self. If you have a headache now in the grosser body, remember that the headache would be far far more intenser in the subtle body. Good. If you have any pleasurable experience in the grosser self, that pleasure will experience – experience will be far— far intenser then the <inaudible> now as we said before that every person is subject to the laws of karma which means that for whatever you have done, you have to pay. Whatever you sow, so shall you reap. It’s a very – very true statement and this supports the law of karma. So now when a person is in such desperation and in such an imbalanced state of mind that the suffering becomes unbearable in the physical world and when that person, because of this unbearableness discards this life wilfully, then that experience, that painful experience still persists in the subtle body, but it persists in a far intenser form. So what happens is this that instead of getting rid of your suffering, you are multiplying your suffering because the mental self that persists the subtle body is the carrier of all the impressions that one had while alive and that made life so bearable. So one cannot escape from one circumstances and would be suicides do nothing but they just want to escape. Now the soul, after death, has to live a long while in a subtle form and in that subtle form, the suffering would be very – very intense and that intense suffering is what we call hell. So every person that commits suicide go to hell (laughs) goes to hell, yes, because the suffering is extremely intense. Good. Now as that suffering wears off, the subtle body prepares

4. SA77-47 stronger in the sense that we can face our problems. We learn to face them very spontaneously, very automatically and as we learn to face them, the problem disappears, it loses its sting and as you would know, proper diagnosis is half the cure. So we diagnose ourselves in this way and sometimes there are experiences that we have, painful experiences for which there is no logic. Then what do we do? The mind refuses to be able to analyse it because the mind of man is limited and there are happenings in one's life that think as hard as you would, no answer can be found. So here too meditation helps where with the growing integration within ourselves, we just intuitively know – we just intuitively know and find the strength to overcome problems. It ’s very simple really. Yes, once we have the strength -- a body builder that develops his muscles, he does not need to think anymore, “How I'm going to pick up that 200 pound weight ?” he just does it because his muscles are strong. But the man who has not gone th rough the exercises of life or his spiritual practices has to think because he is weak he has to think “How am I going to pick up the 200 pounds?” Now all that analysis for the weak man might not be helpful, for think as much as he wants to, he still won't be able to pick up that weight but rather think in the terms of strengthening his body so that picking up that 200 pound weight becomes easy. As we always say, it is no sense analysing the darkness, we just switch on the light and the darkness disappears. We always say that, so what I am trying to tell you that there are certain things in life which one can analyse with the mind. One can intellectualise and find an answer. Then there are other things in life which the mind could never answer, but the heart can just know and intuitive knowledge dawns by self integration and by having that intuitive Knowledge, the problem disappears . There is no life on earth that is not fought with any problems, but how we take the problems, how we treat the problems, that is the important thing and suicide is not treating a problem, it is escaping from a problem and one can escape nowhere. You are in this universe. The mind and the spirit is as vast as the universe. Where can you escape to from the universe? There is nowhere to go, you’re still here and the suicide that escapes his problems in this life brings upon himself great suffering in the subtle body and in spite of all that suffering in the next life, he still will be faced with the same old problems, perhaps in a different form, but the problems would be there. It would always be there. Okay? Does that help you? Fine! Next? Um-hmm. Public: < 0:22:17.1 > Gururaj: Good. Umm – he -- if he is mentally imbalanced, he is still going through a certain painful experience. Now a retarded person, if you study case histories of suicide, you’d never find a totally retarded person committing suicide because a totally retarded person would not suffer the pain of a sensitive mind, an imbalanced mind can suffer pains but not a retarded mind, because the retarded mind has not the ability to think. Good. And it is thought that causes pain.

10. SA77-47 search -- within the search man knows that he has not reached perfection yet and in his search for perfection, he has to formulate ways and means. Good. Now if a person is a household er , is a family man that lives in the world, he has a job to do, he has a family to look after, whatever. Then he must use his own common sense in trying to find the proper proportion for him. Now if such a man that has the responsibilities, if he wants to go away into Himalayan cave and meditate 24hours a day, it would be wrong for him, it would be wrong because he is shirking his responsibilities. Now by living a good life, by living a responsible life, by doing one's duty towards one's family, friends and environment and society, that too is a form of spiritual life. Any duty done sincerely and without the desire for gain, selfish gain, then if such a duty is done without any desire for selfish gain, then that is living a spiritual life. Now when we talk of proportions, we don’t need to proportion a spiritual life. We go through various spiritual exercises , through various meditations to be able to bring about this proportion so that by doing our spiritual practices, we enhance our daily life, we become more responsible for the duties that we have to perform. Now getting away to retreats like this for example gives us an impetus -- gives us an impetus, a shot in the arm – gives us a shot in the arm to pursue with our practices, to make our daily living in society a better kind of living. Therefore these retreats are necessary and even – even –physically it is good because it gives you rest, you’ve left all the cares at home. Mentally it gives you rest as well by not bringing the cares with you. Here we have an atmosphere where all minds are tuned to one thing, one goal, one purpose, and the purpose is to find that kingdom of heaven which is within. So it is very – very beneficial. It is not a necessary must, it is not a necessary must but everyone is not born in such an enlightened state. You have a <0:54:08.4> who could play all the concettas on his violin at the age of four. Okay, such a rare people – rare people. But the others that want to learn music has to go to school, to the music school to learn, to learn and this is how we learn – this is how we learn where by doing practices together, by being in a certain kind of atmosphere, it helps us. It helps us to pursue our practices. So therefore the balance is created, the balance is created and it is not absolutely necessary, but very very helpful – very helpful. That's all it is, okay? Good. Next? I think we say they serve teas at what time? Public: < 0:55 :36.0 > Do you want a break now? Gururaj: No – no – no – no – no, let’s have another question. Public: I was just thinking about < 0:55:50.0 > one of the earlier ones. Umm – which in a sense you say there's the law of karma, action and reaction and that the suffering that would occur in the subtler body is always intenser if there is, in the first place, a feeling of suffering in the physical body that assuming that there could be no feeling of suffering in the

11. SA77-47 physical and one does a way when one commits suicide something like that. Umm – what would be the karmic effect that I'm thinking when a particular instance where in Chinese law, whatever one calls it, there's this active hari-kari which is -- Gururaj: Japanese law. Public: Japanese – pardon me, Japanese hari-kari where it’s honourable and one could conceivably imagine that a situation where somebody would enjoy to do that because it was highly honourable. Now what could be the effect on such <0:56:52.6> Gururaj: Oh yes, oh yes, a person that commits hari-kari does so to benefit his society. Fine! That is a true hari-kariest (laughs) good. He does so selflessly and for a person to be so self-sacrificing has to reach a high level of spiritual development whereby – whereby his life is given to save the lives of so many others. So he would be creating karma but good karma because his actions was not an escape. I'm talking of a true person. There are many – there are many that would do it for the purpose of escape. How do we know that all those that have committed hara-kiri has not done so to escape? Good. How many of them has not done so to gain honour in his society that Mr. Chun Wen Chong (laughs) gave his life for his country? He might be desiring that honour. But the true person that would give his sma ll est life to save the lives of thousands of others, he would definitely have done good karma. So what it means is this is the motivation, not the act but the motivation that determines the reaction of the action. That would determine the effect of the cause and vice versa. Okay? Good. I think we can break for tea now and everybody can have an early night.

1. SA77-47 Gururaj: Fine. Who’s found it going slower? Anyone? Good, fine. In the last five minutes there was no gong. Now this is a very good experience that even after the gong has stopped, you still would hear it going faster or going slower. So it actually means that your consciousness was totally away from the sound and the reverberation of the sound persisted on its own. Good. Now when that persists, it means that you are separating your entire body and mind from your real self. Good. So the real self within man has become the sound of the gong. Good. Now there are three things involved in this Tibetan meditation, thought mantra <audio skips> and by finding the alternation of the three things that one could go far deeper into meditation, but naturally as all meditations go, one has to become established in it and as one becomes more and more established, one is able to discriminate between the body, the mind and the spirit. Good. The body would be represented by thought because it is thought that has a close connection to the physiological self. Good. The mantra has a close connection to the mental self while the gong has the close connection to the inner spiritual being. Now in the beginning you would find these three alternating and then there would come a time when just the sound of the gong would set a person off entirely and one's lost just in the sound even after the gong has c e as ed to be struck. Fine. Good. Twenty minutes is a bit of short for this meditation. Normally one should do it for about 35 to 40 minutes. But this evening I know everyone has come from work and everyone is tired. So we didn’t want to do it for a longer period. Tomorrow we will do it much longer. Good. Now -- Public: I’d like to know what’s – what actually happens when you commit suicid e. Gururaj: oh , what actually happens when you commit suicide? Public: Yes. Gururaj: You die (laughs). I know what you mean – I know what you mean. We had spoken on this matter in earlier lectures wh ere we went into greater detail. Fine! Now suicide is a thing that is normally brought about by an intense mental imbalance and this imbalance is in turn caused by inner turmoil. Inner turmoil is caused by external circumstances to a great extent which naturally influences the internal circumstances within a person. Good. Now this leads to a shear desperation where a person takes his or her life thinking <audio skips>and is has been moulded by us. Psychologists would go as far as one's infancy. Good. They would go back further and talk of hereditary values whe re certain qualities are inherited from one's parents while the spiritual teacher goes further back into past lives and it is the actions of all these lives that we have lived that brings about our condition in life. We call it karma. Good. So we are today the sum-total of all our past existences. Now if a person is born in unhappy circumstances, be sure to know that he has been the creator of

3. SA77-47 itself to take birth again, and it waits for the right channel through which it could assume again a physical grosser body. Now when it assumes the physical gross body, it still would have to pay for what it has done. So when the next life comes along, do not think that by having committed suicide the debts are paid. No , you are just blindfolding yourself. The scene is still there and the same circumstances will come about and even in a more intenser form <audio skips > all these experiences too have some value. Good. The very suffering man undergoes is an experience that could lead a person onward evolutionary. Evolution wise it could lead a person onward, but the progress, the spiritual progress or the spiritual unfoldment of man does not need all that suffering, so why should man by himself, with his own mind create a greater and greater suffering? So those would be suicides do suffer much – much more intensely than they would in the physical form from which they are trying to escape. I don’t recommend it (laughs) because every deed done one has to pay for it and a person if he is in such desperate circumstances, if he would sit down and objectify his problems or go to a spiritual advisor, spiritual consultant, that could explain why that suffering has come about and what can be done about it. Very logically he could explain the reasons for it. You must have heard of a man called Casey in America, he used to do spiritual readings, he used to go into a trans or a hypnotic state and he would go back into the person's previous lives and he would tell you why your circumstances are such in this life and how the circumstances have been brought about by the doings of past lives. Good. They have found that many of the readings they called it, many of his readings were very – very accurate. But now if we can’t find such Casey's what do we do? Those readings of ourselves can be found by ourselves through meditational and spiritual practices and once the reason is found for our sufferings, then immediately can we objectify our sufferings and watch life as if is played on a cinema screen and when one can watch it as if it's happening on a cinema screen, it does not hurt -- It does not hurt. So th at is the whole idea -- that is the whole idea of the chanting that we are gonna do tomorrow which will teach us and show us how we can stand aside and watch everything that happens in life and not be affected by it. It is only when deep emotion is put into the action that that action leaves a lasting impression on the mind because what are we? We are nothing more than a bundle of impressions, a bundle of impressions of all the lives we have lived over millions <audio skips> and through spiritual practices what we do is still the waves and by stilling the waves, a greater and greater and greater tranquillity comes into the mind and when the mind becomes tranquil, then only the spiritual self, the depth of the ocean is experienced. What a joyful experience! What a joyful experience and when one has some little glimpse of it now and then, through our meditation, all thoughts of suicide disappear because then we know what can we escape from? We can never escape from ourselves. We can never escape from ourselves. Whatever we have done we have to face, we have to face and pay – and pay in the same coin or get paid in the same coin but by having developed an inner strength, through meditational practices, through the integration which meditation brings about, we are more

5. SA77-47 Nothing else in life causes pain as thought. Someone < 0:23:29.5 > or says a bad word, where did it hurt? Did it hurt the body? Did it hurt the b ones ? No, it hurt the mind. Good. Right ! And th at mind can translate itself into such inner turmoil, it could lead one into deep depression because Aunty Matilda said a bad word to me. So the problems begin with the thinking mind. Now a human being is so fortunate that he has a mind that can think and the only difference between an animal and a human is his ability to think. Now if thinking – if thinking is used wrongly, then it can stir up negative emotions. If thinking is used rightly, objectively, constructively, then it can stir up positive emotions. So with the retarded child, the feeling is not there. With the retarded person, rather, he lives in a – in a neutral state where he cannot think so therefore there's no negativity and neither positivity involved and because of that, any action which he performs is not binding karmically, because it cannot create an impression in his mind, but the imbalanced person -- now an imbalanced person could be highly intelligent person, could be a very brilliant person. You might have read that many neurotics, psychotics, psychopaths are – are not retarded. They are highly brilliant intelligent people. Some of them are very – very intelligent, but because of the imbalance in the mind, they commit these acts where sometimes schizophrenics, for example, could be so normal at one moment and then little while later, could go off his head completely and they could become very -- very destructive. So here again, it is also the thinking mind that influences the actions of people. Now, to repeat, the retarded mind that cannot think would not bind itself karmically and he would not even be led to commit suicide. He would just vegetate. So it is the thinking mind that would contemplate suicide, because the – the – with the suicide wants to escape, as we said before, and it requires thought power, it requires thinking ability to desire to escape. The – the need for escape also comes from thought while the retarded mind has no thought and therefore non-binding. Okay? Fine! Public: Gurur aj, < 0:27:23.4 >retarded? To what object? Gururaj: Yes, the soul would be born retarded into the present life for the reason of paying its karma. That particular entity -- that particular soul would need a certain kind of experience and therefore it chooses for itself that particular kind of birth because even the retarded mind is not entirely devoid of experience. I know, through personal experience that a retarded child was born, mentally deficient. Child was born; the child lived for five years and passed away. Now in the previous life of this child, it had reached a certain stage of near enlightenment. It had reached the stage of being very near nirvana, but this one little experience of birth, one more birth was required for him where he did not need to exercise the mind at all, but just to have this fine little experience to be born, to be born. To come from a vast – to come from the vastness of the universe to –into the body, a little channel and after this experience was gained, it left its body and attained nirvana. So

6. SA77-47 there are many reasons, it is not every retarded child that is going to find salvation, not necessarily so. I'm talking of one particular case only, but because of the doings, because of the doings of our past lives, because of the actions of our past lives, we have to bear the fruits and this could be a particular experience which the person needed, the child needed to be born retarded. So we are within a plan and the plan is vast. What we see is only a small section in a vast continuum. We see a small section of three score years and ten. Somewhere between the extremities of millions of years that extend either side to the left and the right and here we are, somewhere in between there viewing the small span of life and yet this very small span is so important in this vast continuum because without it the continuum would not be a continuum. Without it the wholeness would not be there, completeness would not be there. So all these experiences are necessary and that we have brought them upon ourselves by our own deeds, by our own actions, always – always. Okay? Fine! Next? Public: Gururaj. Gururaj: Um -hmm. Public: < 0:31:20.1 > I think you spoke once about astral travel. And I asked if I'm not mistaken, I think it’s the ninth or the -- Gur uraj: Astral, sorry? Public: Astral travel, or I would say like the spirits something deep in the body that i t’ s possible for a person to be able to – the spirit live in the body until the body dies. What <0:31:53.8> in a catastrophe or a disaster, a person finds himself in circumstances where he knows that there is no hope of rescue. Gururaj: Um -hmm. Public: And instead of suffering < 0:32:12.0 > where his spirit could leave his body until his body dies and is that form of suicide justified? Gururaj: No it is not justified at all because as long as there's life, in spite of whatever catastrophe there is, or whatever circumstances there is, where there's life, there's always hope. So there too, it’s the same story that the person finds himself so trapped in a certain circumstance or environment that he desires to leave the body. Fine! Now in astral

7. SA77-47 travelling, one does not leave the body entirely. There is just the subtle body that leaves. The spiritual self is still there. Now man is composed of the gross physical body, the subtle body and the spiritual body. So in astral travelling what happens is the spiritual body and the gross body, the physical body stays behind and the subtle body is projected. Now if you would like to do astral travelling, join me tonight (laughs). I’ll show you some places (laughs). Yes, so that – that form of suicide is not justified at all and firstly for a man to project his subtle body outward requires a lot of practice. There are certain techniques which are very – very easy really. They can be practiced and you can project your subtle body outwards, but what are you going to gain by it? The main purpose of evolution is spi ri tual unfoldment and not acquiring these powers to project one's subtle body or to concretise one's self el sewhere. They serve no purpose. In Sanskrit we call these sidhis, all these occult powers, they serve no purpose, they could be stumbling blocks. They could be stumbling blocks in one's spiritual unfoldment because acquiring these occult powers as one would call them; one could get very – very much waylaid or mixed up in those powers that the real goal and purpose of life is lost. But astral travel is a distinct possibility and there is no such thing that if you – if you project your subtle body away from you that it will not come back, there is no such thing. There are many people that have practiced this form of occultism have asked me that is there a chance of my subtle body never coming back? I say no such thing. It’ll always come back. He – it will come back even if you have to die five minutes later natural death, it still has to come back because the spiritual body is still there and the spiritual body is everything. When we die naturally, we leave the physical body and the subtle body with the spiritual body proceeds on. And as man reaches enlightenment, then he discards the subtle body too. Fine. So it means that the physical body and the subtle body has no permanent value. It is forever changing while the spiritual self is never changing, it is always there, it is eternal while – it is infinite while the physical and the subtle bodies they are both finite. So I would never recommend anyone to try and develop these occult powers, I would not recommend that. Because by recommending that or by person practicing that, he is putting all his attention on something which has no permanent value. Attention should always be put on something that has a – that has a permanent value, not impermanent value, permanent value, that’s what we want and that’s what we are trying to find. Because by finding the permanent value within us which is the spiritual self, one finds true happiness, one finds true joy, one becomes one with all existence. That is salvation, that is true integration and that is finding the heaven with in , see ye first the heaven within that is what it means and that is what all search should be for, and not these little things, very little things like people trying to fly, levitate and – and do tricks like that, they are of no value whatsoever. They go retard once progress towards that beautiful, joyful, blissful spiritual life. Okay? (Laughs) Public: < 0:38:29.1 > does that mean that your karmic < 0:38:36.0 > has come to an end?

8. SA77-47 Gururaj: Yes, beautiful— beautiful. Finding the kingdom within oneself, in other words, finding divinity then one has transcended all karma. Good. Now karma are of two types, good karma and bad karma. Good karma could bring some good results, some little happiness’s, but even those happiness’s are not permanent. They are fleeting. Bad karma brings about painful circumstances, but the painful experiences or circumstances are also fleeting and non-permanent. So finding enlightenment means to go beyond the good and bad. It is transcending all that, transcending the tree guna s which constitutes entire existence. Now we spoke about this at very great length in one of the tapes, Vijay, on the tree gunas. It'd be nice if Robin could have a copy of that tape. It is a very beautiful long subject. Good. Fine! Public: Guruji, when we were overseas, we listened to a story about a group of men taken from some Indian writing umm – who purified themselves by means of tapas so that they enter the subtle spiritual realms without <0:40:26.3> and at the time we were told that it was in fact a practical possibility. Now would you like to comment on that? Gururaj: Oh yes, oh yes. What is the use of entering the subtle spiritual self? The real self after you have discarded this body? If that can be done while still in this body, then you can enjoy it in the body. So you would be expressing that spiritual realm in the mental self as well as in the physical self. And by enjoying the spiritual realms in the mental and the physical self, you are enhancing the mind and the body. So you could experience that stat e of enlightenment from all aspects, from the physical aspect, from the mental aspects and of course the spiritual aspect is always there and this is what we mean by integration. The integration of mind, body and spirit. This integration becomes so beautiful that the body, mind and spirit ceases to be a part, then all three aspects of man merges into a oneness -- merge into a oneness where the whole body, every cell in the body is the spiritual body, every <0:42:18.2> in the brain, every sub-atomic particle becomes the spirit. Because essentially as science would point out to you too that everything in this universe is nothing but energy, and this energy is existing in various levels, various grades of subtleness or grossness. So the physical body and the mental body are but expressions in grosser forms of the self same energy. Now when man realises this that even this body is that energy. Theological people would call it divinity, scientists call it energy. Fine! And when man really realises this that every cell in my body is that spirit, then man can really say, “ Ah , my body is the temple of God.” When man realises that all the energies that are in the mind is also that spirit, then he would know, he would consciously know and consciously experience that energy with the mind. But there too -- th ere too there would be a subject and an object. The object would be the spiritual self experienced by the subject which is the mind and the mind translates itself through the body. Now the distinctions would first be experienced. Now those men, those men that speak of these various levels, they speak of it because they are still experiencing the separations between mind,

9. SA77-47 body and spirit. But the real enlightened man sees no separation, sees no distinction between body, mind and spirit. To him it is all one – to him it is all one where this would hear the flower there, a human being there is the same is altogether. He could feel the same life pulsating in that wooden table. He could feel the same life pulsating in this flower, he can feel the same life pulsating to those around him. So all distinctions cease and that is what is called unity consciousness. Before one reaches that stage, one necessarily has to go though these various levels of experiences and – and when we talk of levels, we measure levels in various degrees of subtleties or grossness. So the subtlest, finest experience is to experience oneself as one’s self, then we would really truly know the meaning of the phrase “I am that I am . ” That is the unitive experience , that is pure consciousness. Pure consciousness, undivided consciousness and everything, the entire universe becomes one atom without distinction, atom is not the right word because they still find a matter then the atom , you cannot even talk of sub-atomic particles because there is still a sub sub-atomic particle which scientists are trying to unfathomed, but the spiritual man, the one that has realised the unity consciousness, he experiences all that H e experiences the finest value of all existence and in that experience he finds that here is something permanent . Here is something permanent. The energy – the energy that scientists talk of is only a grossified energy that subtle energy can only be known through certain aspects of fine – very fine matter, but when matter totally disappears and that primal energy is experienced, then one has experience of divinity. This can definitely be experienced, it might not be seen trough an electronic microscope, but it can be experienced, one can experience this depth, this fineness and when one experiences th at fineness within oneself, one recognises the fineness around himself and the within and the without become one. Okay? Public: < 0:48:34.3 > bapuji in coming to a course like this brings to mind a question a bout the organising of one's life. Now you said that one can't escape from one's s e l f , so whatever circumstance one in – one is always there present with the self, with its weaknesses and its strengths, but if you could – if you were given say an ideal opp ortunity to structure what we might call an ideal society, however small it might be. What – what might be for the average kind of person, the most advantageous proportioning of activity? For example we come here and we have the advantage of almost an exte nded satsang. Now that's a circumstance which we say gives great added impetus to our lives, whereas if we didn’t have this opportunity, we’d be say five or seven days a week in very gross circumstances. Can one say that that is equally advantageous in gro wing spiritually or would it be best if you could restructure things? To say, give three days to satsang, four days o f hard – hard activity. What is the true balance or the best balance? Gururaj: Beautiful, beautiful. Fine! Umm – the person that tries to find balance necessarily tries to find balance because he recognises imbalance. When a person truly has the balance, he does not need to search anymore, right. But within the