1. UK 77- 19 Questioner. May I ask a question please? Would you please elaborate on the path of devotion in relation to Christians representing Christ, honouring the personal God, Angels, Gurus and Teachers who inspire and communicate their sense of authority and following inner guidance generally paying credence to a pre-determined mode of instruction such as faith in an image of a teacher, divination............. and if there is time. What responsibility has one to people who have died and what responsibility do they have to oneself? What are the prescriptions for and the function of ancestor worship........... ? Gururaj. I beg your pardon. (General laughter) Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. What basically the question would mean, what relationship could man have to the God he worships or the Deity he worships or to a personage to whom a person could have a close relationship with? That sums it up. Good. Fine. Good. Now, we do know that the energy that exists in the universe, the spiritual energy is abstract. Good. Now, the human mind is so constructed that it could never conceive of anything abstract because the human mind is tangible in a very fine subtle form of energy, while the abstract is an energy beyond all tangible energies. It is an intangible energy. Fine. So, for the human mind to have any little comprehension of the universal energy, the intangible, the abstract energy what must he do? Good. Therefore, ancient Sages have devised a means and this was not something devised by the Sages but it was something revealed to them. What we mean by revelation, that the human mind can be brought to such a fine level and yet going beyond that fine level of the human mind, one can be in absolute communion with the abstract. Good. In other words we are led very systematically to that abstract state, whereby the abstractness produced in us becomes one with the universal abstractness, which means that the inner self of man finds its oneness with the universal self of man. Good. Now that is the abstract conception and therefore we say that Divinity is indefinable by man's mind. But now man has to have something that is tangible. Good. Now, how to find that tangibility? Good. If we have an air conditioner in the room, good, with the heat on, we do not see the heat but yet the heat is there warming the room. Good. Because the human mind is incapable of conceiving, seeing, feeling, touching the abstract heat or the abstract Divinity in our sense, he has to have a way and means whereby he can communicate. Now we know this for sure that the tangible finds it impossible to communicate with the intangible. So what happens in this case that the intangible or the abstract has to concretise itself so that the human being or the human mind could have a conception of something which is beyond itself. Through analysis, he can find that there is something more to me than just this me. Through feeling, he can extend this pr inciple in actually experiencing that there is more to me than the apparent me. Fine.

2. UK 77- 19 So, to find this all these various deities have been formulated. For example, the Hindu people, they have so many gods, tangible gods, gods that lived householders' lives. If you take the God Brahman, the Creator, he would have his Lakshmi. Shiva would have his Parvati. So, those Gods, those conceptions were brought down to such a level that the ordinary man can identify himself with something which is tangible. A householder can definitely identify himself with another householder. By that we mean that a husband and wife can identify with a being that also has a husband and wife relationship. So, personal Gods were formed. Good. What has happened here is that the abstract God has now become a personalised God. Now, what is the personalised God? Now to have a personalised God, he necessarily has to be the son of man and the son of man we regard to be a personalised God. In different times and in different climes, the same principle has been followed. Buddhists have their Buddha, the Hindus have their Krishna and their Rama and Christians have their Christ, the Mohammedans have Mohammed. Good. Human beings would find it a spiritual and psychological necessity to have a personalised form of God and that is why we have it in the Bible that 'Our Father which art in Heaven'. Good. It has many abstract meanings but the literal meaning would mean time and place, that there is a place where the Father is in Heaven. And yet the abstract Father is beyond the Father that we conceive of sitting in Heaven with long robes and a big beard. Good. Now for man to proceed on the spiritual path, and this is worth repeating again that he needs a tangible form to which he can relate. Good. Now, the best way that man can relate is to a superman and that is the origin of all these films, James Bond. Because man within himself feels that he has greater capacity. Man within himself feels that he has greater capability and he is forever trying to identify himself to that greater capability and capacity. So therefore we have these James Bonds, good, that while the person is watching James Bond in action, he's identifying himself with that James Bond on the screen. And the reason being not only escapism and not only day-dreaming, because even escapism and day-dreaming must have a basis and the basis is this that man inherently has far greater capacity within himself than what he displays without himself. So we know and all psychiatrists and psychologists will tell us that we use less than ten percent of our potential. Ninety percent is lying dormant. Good. So, for, in order for man to awaken the ninety percent dormantness within him he has to personify an ideal, an ideal which is greater than himself. Good. And that is the purpose of having personalised Gods where God is seen in person. Now according to Vedic tradition there are certain forms of meditation and certain forms that leads one to the supreme state. Now the first form is what they call Cervikalpa Samadhi, which means to reach Samadhi, to reach a supreme state with form, Kalpa, Cervikalpa with form that is conceivable. Good. So by having an ideal which is a super-human being, we lead all our attentions to that super-human being and by leading the attention to the super-human being, we try to and

3. UK 77- 19 we do identify ourselves with that super-human being, fine, which is Krishna, Buddha, Christ. Good. And when one reaches total identification with the ideal of the personified God, we go beyond that to find the abstract God. So, the conceptions of a personalised God or an abstract God is not contradictory. The one idea is the extension of the other idea. They are stages that man has to go through. Good. We cannot find Divinity by solving mathematical problems. Right. Divinity has to become very, very tangible. Good. Now what is a personified God? A personified God is a human being, in a human form, a personified God is in human form which has realised or reached a state where he, although being in a human form, has within himself the realisation and the communion with the abstract form. So, that personified God is a combination of the concrete with the abstract and the concrete is in such a way or manner although displaying himself very, very ordinarily and the greater the man, the more ordinary he is. The greater the man, the more ordinary he is and the lesser the man, the greater show he has to put on. Fine. So, the realised person becomes more and more ordinary. And even in the injunctions he would make, like Krishna would say ‘You come to me’, or Christ would say ‘I am the way, the life’. Right. Now even in those injunctions that such people make, it is not an expression of haughtiness. It is a statement of fact. And the statement of fact is because he has that concrete being has totally identified himself with the abstract. In other words the abstract permeates every cell, ever y drop of his blood. And when a personified being has achieved that state of realisation of the abstract and has become identified with the abstract God, then he is worthy for us normal evolving human beings, it is worthy for us to hold that personified God, that personified person as a God, because he has reached the maximum height of any achievement, any worthwhile achievement and what is there more worthwhile than to identify oneself with the abstract being. So, such a personage having identified himself with the abstract being while still being in body, people are devoted to that being. And as the devotion develops, as my devotion develops to that personalised ideal, a great communication takes place. Good. When I smell this flower, I am inhaling very fine particles of this flower. This flower is shedding off certain particles of itself and that is what I know as fragrance, it is entering me. This is a scientific fact. Good. Because even the fragrance in a very subtle form is matter and I am smelling the fragrance, I am ingesting the flower through my nostrils. Good. That is how, that is how with devotion to a personalised ideal, a person who has reached those heights that we spoke about, when that devotion is there then I will automatically imbibe the power he radiates within me. As this flower is radiating the fragrance, so the spiritual being is forever radiating this force, emanating the spiritual force and the greater devotion I have to that personalised ideal, the greater would be my receptivity. The greater devotion I have, the

4. UK 77- 19 greater faith I have, the greater would the channel be opened. But if I am not prepared to open my nose and close my nose, I will not smell the fragrance. So devotion opens the heart and if my heart is closed up to that personalised God then nothing can happen. Nothing can happen because I am not allowing myself for those energies to flow. If I don't open this window, fresh air can't come in. Now that is the part devotion plays to the personalised conception which man's mind is able to conceive of a personalised God. But then that is not where we get stuck. That is one of the steps to reach the abstract. So through the personalised being, we reach the abstract. For example you have certain sects in, amongst the Hindus and amongst the Christians, that would have a idol of their ideal, idol of their ideal. Now, they are not worshipping the idol, but they are using that as a focal point, as a means through the idol to the abstract, through the concrete to the abstract because it is only through the mediumship or the middlemanship of that personalised ideal that we can become one with Divinity. Therefore in the Bible it is said that man comes to Christ before he reaches the Father. That is the true meaning of it. So all these conceptions are valid. Now, some people might be born at a very high stage of evolution where they do not require a personalised God and they can approach the abstract God. When I was a young boy I used to scoff at these various forms of worship. I used to say ‘What do I need a medium for. What do I need this Krishna and this Rama and Christ for? I want direct communion’. I used to scoff at these ideas. I used to scoff at all these various ritualistic forms. I used to scoff at all these various forms of devotions, but as I unfolded in my path, I found myself that these have real values. Now it is only with the idea of having a personalised God that I could see God in person in you. Good. If God to me remains an abstract quality or an abstract quantity, then it would be impossible to personalise him in each and everyone. I start off with an ideal who has reached this communion, who is in constant communion, who is communion himself. I use him as my ideal and from that step I progress further. It is only if I am trained to used a personalised being and see God in that personalised being, then will I have sufficient training and the mental attitude to see God in every person. Good. So, that being one of the steps to lead us to the abstract and once when man realises the abstract, he does not need the personalised God. He merges away in the Impersonal God, which is the abstract God. So these are steps one take in one's evolutionary path. And these steps are valid and for the majority of people in the world, ninety nine point nine, nine percent, the personalised conception of Divinity is necessary and once he can transcend the personalised conception, he can then become one with the impersonal God which is beyond all conception. So we start with a conception which will lead us to non-conception. That means we start with the mind and lead ourselves to go beyond the

5. UK 77- 19 mind. So do never ever, ever condemn, as I used to as a young boy, do never ever condemn any person's worship, any form of worship. Do never break anyone's faith in his or her ideal. And once we develop this attitude, all religions, all paths as our emblem symbolises, will become one to us. This path Krishna is good for you, good, good, Buddha is good for you good, good, Rama good for you, good, good. Christ is good for you. Good. Why not? Because they are all personalisations, the concrete value of the abstract, the Impersonal God manifesting itself as the personal God. Now, what is a personal God? Right. I have said very briefly that a personal God being, still being an embodied form is in constant communion with the abstract and the abstract permeates every pore of his being. And yet he's more ordinary than ordinary. The personalised God is not necessarily one. They are millions of universes within this - you have one universe, but within that one universe, you have millions of universes as within the smaller universe, there are millions of solar systems. Right. And there are millions of galaxies. That personalised God represents the sum totality, represents the entire vibration, represents the entire radiation which this one particular universe emanates from himself, from itself. That is the personalised God. Good. The personalised God represents the entire emission of vibrations of that particular universe. And as there are millions of universes, there are millions of personalised Gods. Good. It is like a business firm, you have the Managing Director, good, or the President as Americans would say, and then you have various Board Members who look after the various aspects of business. Right. So above all these personalised Gods, we have the supreme God who is also personalised. Good. And it is going beyond the supreme personalised God that we reach the abstract God. Do you see how systematically it is worked in? It is departmentalised. Yes. It is departmentalised. Good. So you have your General Manager and all your sub-Managers and above the general Manager there is the supreme boss and yet the supreme boss is abstract. He sits in his office and you never see him. And he works through all through his General Manager and the General Manager works through all the sub-Managers. And those are the mechanics, those are the mechanics how the Manifestor creates or manifests his manifestation. Everything is done in a precise systematic manner, step by step. Step by step. Good. As the Manifestor has come down to us step by step, so through those very steps we climb up to the Manifestor. Right. And that Manifestor is the personalised God, the supreme Manager, right, and beyond him is the unmanifest, the abstract. I have told you this story I think at the Hayes Course or whatever where a chela goes to a guru and asks him, ‘Show me God’, show me that force, that power that has manifested all this. Good. So the guru sends him to a tree called the Amalac tree and says bring a fruit. The chela brings the fruit. He says ‘Open the fruit’, the fruit was opened.

6. UK 77- 19 Take out the seed and when the seed was taken out, the guru says ‘Break the seed’. And there was nothing in the seed. Right. So the guru explains that that which you see as nothing is the cause of the formation of the seed and the seed formed this whole tree from which you have brought this fruit. So that which seems nothing, abstract, is everything. So the supreme in mythological terms is called Shiva, that's referring to the Hindu concept, Shiva. And for Shiva in order for him to manifest, he manifests himself through shakti. Right. Now shakti essentially means energy. Good. So the abstract too cannot function without the concrete. The impersonal God cannot function without the personal God. Because it all forms part and parcel of one whole, one completeness. When we say, when we say, that God exists in the tiniest atom and he exists in the largest universe, fine, when we say that we are referring to the abstract God, because that very abstract power is even within the seed that seemed hollow. It is within every atom. That is the energising factor that manifests itself through shakti, which is energy in various forms of gradation. So the personalised God is a God, who has reached the highest level of communion and is existing now, is existing now at the finest level of relativity. And he represents, the supreme personal God, represents all the emanations, the totality of the whole universe. There are a lot of mythological stories demonstrating this, but this is the principle behind it. We have stories of Vishnu on the churning ocean. It’s very beautiful really and from there Brahma was created and Brahma was given the job as the creator to bring about tangible universes and things. But the principle is this that from the very, very finest, it has to be brought down to more and more tangible forms. And for human beings the most thing, the thing that could be most tangible is another human form. And the human form that has reached that height definitely without consciously imparting the impulse, is forever imparting the impulse, like the flower does not consciously give of its fragrance, but the fragrance is forever there for those that want to smell it. So these are the factors involved. The factors that are involved is love and devotion which opens up the channel, as I said opening up the nose to be able to smell the flower. That's love and devotion and a reasonable amount of thinking, reasonable amount of exercise of the mind that would make one appreciate the beauty of the flower, because if the flower is conceived to be beautiful, then it enhances the fragrance the flower emits. You might have a very beautiful fragrance coming from some other source and you will appreciate the fragrance, it is very beautiful. But if it comes from a beautiful flower that very fragrance is enhanced. Right. A housewife can cook a beautiful meal but if the table is not set nicely, that beautiful meal will not be appreciated as it should be. So that dressing, beautifying the table, laying the plates etc etc are also important. Good. So the personalised God is necessary for one to be led to the impersonal God. And one is not a contradiction to the other. One is complimentary to the other. Okay. Fine. Good.

7. UK 77- 19 Questioner. Yesterday you spoke of acceptance when one recognises subconscious negativity directly affecting one's thought and action Gururaj. If one recognises sub-conscious, sorry Questioner(Cont’d). When one recognises sub-conscious negativity coming up directly affecting every thought and action then we can ask Gururaj. How can you accept, yes, I know Questioner(Cont’d) This negativity is sometimes so overwhelming that one feels powerless to make a conscious effort, what to do? Gururaj. What to do? Very true. What to do? Yes. Yes. Yes. Voice. I didn't hear the question. Aide. Can you repeat the question? Gururaj. The question was that if subconsciously the negativities within oneself come to the fore, good, and it produces adverse circumstances, then how can one accept it because one would feel powerless to accept it? Is that the gist of it? Aide. How can one deal with it? Gururaj. How can one deal with it and how can one accept it? Because accepting it is dealing with it. Okay, fine. Sometimes I frame questions better than you do. (General laughter). Good. Fine. Yes. Now we find this in everyday life. We find this in everyday life because of the expressions of the experiences and thoughts and whatever they may be that are so deeply planted in our subconscious mind that they cannot remain in the subconscious mind. Good. The subconscious mind - if all those thoughts had to remain in the subconscious mind then we would explode. So the subconscious mind has to find release and that release comes about through the conscious mind. Good.

8. UK 77- 19 Now when all those weeds from under the ground is pushed up to above the ground, which would mean when those sub conscious thoughts and negativities that we ourselves have put there in the first place - that must never be forgotten, good - when it is pushed up into the conscious level, the conscious mind whereby those negativities become cognisable then we feel utterly miserable and hopeless. Good. We feel utterly miserable, hopeless and helpless to be able to accept the situation. Now by developing the feelings in us of hopelessness and helplessness, we are not helping ourselves in any way. We are not helping ourselves in any way, we are actually watering the weeds, yes and making them grow more stronger in the conscious mind. And when they grow more stronger in the conscious mind, the roots go deeper in the subconscious mind. So it is, if you want to do gardening of weeds, this is the best way. That's the best way, where you would find its conscious expression more powerful and at the same time you are letting them, the roots grow deeper into the subconscious mind. What to do? Good. Now, when we talk of acceptance, we talk of acceptance in the sense of facing the problem. The roots are there in the subconscious. They have to express themselves. They have to rid themselves of these burdens. There is no escape. There is no escape from it. We have put them there. We have sown and we must reap. But when they come to the conscious level it depends upon us if we are going to feed those weeds or not. And that is where the major part of acceptance comes in. Right. From the subconscious mind a thought stems up that, ‘I am going to steal tonight’. Good. Are we going to give vent to the idea of stealing with the conscious mind? Are we going to do that and by doing that, we are driving the roots home more deeper? Right. Acceptance means not only the circumstances we are confronted with but facing the circumstance we are confronted with, but facing the circumstance and accepting the circumstance that I have the tendency of being a thief. That is a true acceptance. If you, I have had a lot of dealings with alcoholics. Sometimes these various organisations call me in to give them talks. Good. And the most important thing which I would have to make people realise, to make the alcoholic realise, is to admit to himself that I am an alcoholic. Once he admits that sincerely to himself, I can wean him off his alcohol. So acceptance means to admit the weakness that is now being pushed up from my subconscious mind. That is what acceptance means. Now when the alcoholic admits to himself that I am an alcoholic, right and I haven't got, number two, I haven't got the power to deal with it myself, then I go for help. I go for help to an adviser who can help to plan my life for me. One kind of help. I go for another kind of help also and that is in surrender, surrender to a power which is beyond me. So firstly I admit to myself honestly. The problem with alcoholics for example using this for an example is this that they do not want to admit that they are alcoholics. That is the biggest problem which any social worker has or those that dea l with people afflicted with this disease called alcoholism. That's the biggest problem they have. That

9. UK 77- 19 Voice. ...... (Inaudible) Gururaj. You do, am I making sense. Good. Lovely. So it is to get the person to admit that I have this weakness that I am an alcoholic, then I have automatically accepted the idea, and when I have accepted the idea that I am an alcoholic, I will try and find ways and means whereby this weakness can be dealt with. And if outside counselling fails, I still have the greatest counsellor of all. And I don't need to find that counsellor in tangible form. No, I just surrender and say, ‘Thy will be done.’ What greater acceptance is there than that? Now, this applies to every problem in life where you just don't accept, you face the problem and acceptance comes on its own. Good. And when acceptance comes, ways and means automatically follow. When one sincerely accepts that I am in trouble, right, one automatically finds the cause of the trouble and once the cause of the trouble is found, like a doctor would say, proper diagnosis is half the cure, you have reached half way in solving the problem. And after reaching half way, the other half can be achieved by the acceptance of the injunction 'Thy will be done'. See how devotion works? How systematic it is? Right. The whole idea, the whole transformation of the human personality depends upon one factor and that factor is to be able to face ourselves squarely in the mirror. When we hide the problems away, like the alcoholic who does not want to admit that he is an alcoholic, he can never solve his problems. As these weeds push themselves up from the subconscious to the conscious mind, we know it could be very uncomfortable. Perhaps most times it could be uncomfortable. Now what do we do to set off this discomfort? We do meditation. Now meditation does two things simultaneously, right. One, it stirs up and makes you face your problem and secondly, gives you strength to face the problem. It works two ways. And if that problem is brought face to face with us, and where we pull it out of the subconscious to the conscious level of cognition and we face the problem, right, then meditation also gives the strength to face the problems. And if facing the problem squarely and the strength is combined with a bit of determination and devotion that there is something higher than me that can eradicate this problem, then all that initial knock, initial disturbance is lessened immeasurably. This is how it works. So therefore in our system, in our system we apply logic, we apply devotion and we apply action all the time. And there's no problem, no problem that's insuperable, there's no problem to which there is no answer. Now if a person goes and kills someone and gets convicted and gets convicted of the crime and has to go to jail, twenty years, thirty years, life sentence whatever the case might be, good, now such a person must not look for a miracle,

10. UK 77- 19 that some miracle must happen where the judge's mind will just be turned around in some way or the other and pronounce ‘Not guilty’. That is asking for something which is not right and which you don't deserve. Now if you have killed someone and you are sentenced to a long term in jail, what are you going to do? You can make that very same jail sentence into the most pleasurable experience of your life. You can make that jail term the most pleasurable experience of your life through meditation. The greatest literary works, the greatest evolution in man was done in jail, was done in jail, where man was really given the chance to dive deep within himself, to really analyse himself, to really probe within himself. Many ugly habits of man have been cured there. So, I'm using a very extreme example, using a very extreme example, but it is applicable into every circumstance of life. And many a man, if he is of strong character and that strengt h of character can be built by meditation and spiritual practices, where he will emerge from a sinner to a saint. So what I am trying to say that whatever circumstances we are in, there is always a way. And where there’s a will, there is a way. And why my will, Thy will, and the way is smoother, better, more pleasant, more life supporting because it’s Divine will. You’re looking at your watches now, are you? One o’clock. Aide. The bell rang five minutes ago. Gururaj. Oh bell rang, I'm so sorry. END