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1. UK 78- 49 Gururaj. I believe Kummel has constructed a question or something, have you? No. No. Questioner. This probably won't need a very long answer because you have talked about this subject earlier on in the week. But most spiritual teachers say that it’s the ego which holds on to our individuality and prevents us experiencing universality. My question is how do we recognise this ego within ourselves and understand the way in which it’s overshadowing our inner self? Gururaj. Beautiful. Yes. How do we recognise the ego within ourselves? Now, when we use that word, how do we recognise the ego within ourselves, it means that the ego is apart from ourselves. Now we are not referring to the big self, the big ‘I’, the capital S. The capital S does not recognise anything at all. The capital S is just there as all force is just there the capital S is just there. The force of gravity is there and the force of gravity does not need to recognise itself at all. It is there. So when we talk of recognition we are talking of the small self and the question here would mean that how does the small self recognise the ego. Now, the small self is the ego. The small self is the ego. So then we could ask how does the ego know itself. Good. The ego knows itself by itself; it does not require an outside force for the ego to know itself. Do I possess an ego? No. You do not possess an ego, you are the ego. Fine. Now, when you are the ego and you’re experiencing the ego all the time you find life filled with so many faults and frailties and difficulties. You being the ego, you being the individual personality, is experiencing all those problems. So therefore we say the ego experiences itself. Now in the self-experience of the ego by itself for itself and within itself, it tries all the time to come to terms with itself. And it is this factor of trying to come to terms with itself meaning with one's self. You see how simple it becomes as we go on. It's quite a common saying when we tell people ‘Oh, why don't you come to terms with yourself?’ What we are actually saying is this that come to terms with your ego. Now ego is not something you possess, you are the ego. So you come to terms with yourself, meaning you come to terms with your ego. The reason why you want to come to terms with your ego is very simple. To come to terms means to develop an understanding. When we say come to terms with Mr. X, Y, Z. It means develop an understanding with Mr. X, Y, Z. So, what you are doing is trying to develop an understanding with the ego. And here the ego not being apart from you, you are trying to understand and come to terms with yourself, through yourself and by yourself. See? Now, do remember that the ego in itself is not bad. It's not bad at all. The ego too has its grosser aspect and it has the finer aspect of itself. So coming to terms with the ego by itself, for itself, with itself, means that you use the subtler aspects of the ego to overcome the grosser aspects of the ego. Now the subtler aspects of the ego could be equated with

2. UK 78- 49 smooth silk, the grosser aspects with very rough grass cloth. So by coming to terms with ego means you are infusing the subtler refined aspects of the ego, we have refined personalities, beautiful personalities nothing wrong with them whatsoever. It is the grosser self of man that requires refining and coming to terms with. And that is why Psychologists would talk of the two minds of man. The one mind overshadowing the other mind and whichever is stronger naturally has more power and more force. It’s not such a short answer really, is it? We've only begun. Good. So, what we are trying to do and we know for sure that the ego the individual ego is the stumbling block towards universality. But within that stumbling block there are gradations of grossness and fineness. So we use the fineness as a lever or as an instrument to take the grosser aspect of ourselves and to refine them. Now, I had put forward a proposition to you the other day on one of the Courses that the ego does not require annihilation. It does not require to be subdued. It does not require to be sublimated. This is a totally new proposition because we know that within the human personality even the finest atom, the finest thought which is also composed of fine matter cannot be destroyed. When matter becomes very, very fine, it can be observed as a form of energy and no energy, energy is the other side of the coin of matter. So matter and energy is none other than the same thing. This being so, we cannot destroy it. But what we do is in the refinement of the personality, in the refinement of the individuality we go through a process of stretching the ego to its maximum limit. Now if we could use the analogy of rubber, the more you stretch that piece of rubber the more transparent it becomes. And as it becomes transparent, the real self within man shines through. And we have said this very often that if the light shines through brightly and the window is clean, you do not see the glass at all. The glass is there; the ego is there. The individual personality is there, but it becomes as if it has disappeared in the strong light of the real self. And that individuality will remain until man has a body. So no man, the greatest sage or the greatest saint stil l has a trace of ego. But that ego is at such a refined level that it is virtually non-existent. It is virtually non-existent, because it ceases to be an obstacle or an impediment for the pure light to shine through. Now, here to go further with the same analogy, it means, it means that even the ego or the individual being, the individuality at its basis is very fine and refined. It is very fine and very refined. But as that pane of glass gathers onto itself all the dust and the dirt, that ego becomes grosser and grosser until the light cannot shine through, as it should. So, that is why we say that apart from man's universality, apart from the Divinity that exists in man, his individual self at its finest level is also pure. It is also pure, and at the finest level of the individual person exists the superconscious state, which is the direct reflection of the absolute. We have said this many times. I don't know if I have mentioned this in England but in other talks, that for Divinity or the absolute value that there is in the universe, for it to come to its grossest individualised, personalised level, it too has to go through a process and its first contact in manifestation is at the

3. UK 78- 49 superconscious level. So at the superconscious level, that individual is very refined. But as it goes through this force, this propulsion of evolution or through this pull of gravitation, of gravity, it gathers unto itself all the grossness that makes him, instead of being his primal selfless being, it makes him a selfish being and sets him apart from things until he comes to believe, he comes to delude himself in saying that I am separate from everything else. And yet at the very beginning within that superconsciousness everything was but one. Now if Divinity is only one then its very manifestation at the superconscious level has to be one. It has no differentiation. And this differentiation as we have said before is because of the evolutionary process whereby even the superconscious self tries to find the source of itself. In other words it means that it tries to reach back into the light of which it is a manifestation. The manifest wants to become one again with the unmanifest. And because that which is manifest wants to merge with the unmanifest we say that the ego has to be annihilated. Manifest, unmanifest. That is why the impression is given by thinkers, philosophers that the ego must be annihilated. It could never be annihilated. Because if the unmanifest is permanent, if it is eternal, then whatever it has manifested too would be eternal. Change, changing but changing within a framework of eternity. So the changes we observe in the evolutionary process is not a change on the totality of manifestation, but change in the parts of the manifestation. The turbulence is in parts and not in the whole. So therefore, all manifestation also remains eternal. Good. Now in the process of refining the ego one takes into consideration samskaras, impressions, karmic values. We have seen that, the primal manifestation has been on the superconscious level. That superconsciousness with further condensation becomes the subconscious and therein are the seeds, the germs of all that which later becomes conscious. What are the mechanics, what is the reason for the seeds and these germs? This goes back to a previous cycle of existence, previous cycle of existence of not man alone, but previous cycle of existence of the entire universe. Because the universe functions in cycles. A cycle begins, the cycle ends and the very ending of the cycle which is Sanskrit is called Pralaya, the very ending of the cycle gives birth to another cycle. But the egg gives birth to the hen and the hen gives birth to the egg. Which came first? (Gururaj laughs) It's a very good one that really which came first the egg or the hen. I've got the answer for that. We'll talk about it some other time. (Gururaj laughs). Nevertheless, what it actually means what came first, the egg or the hen, it actually means that life is eternal, that life goes on perpetuating itself. And that is how the entire universe keeps on perpetuating itself through dissolution and recreation. And that is why we have the symbolism of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, Creator, Preserver, Dissolver. So that goes to show that the entire universe which is a manifestation of the manifest is eternal and because it can only operate in

4. UK 78- 49 cycles, the changes that are seen is within the cycle but not within its entirety. Because the entirety and eternity of it is forever changing and yet remaining eternal. For that which is manifested by the eternal has necessarily to be eternal. Good. So the very first spark of creation, the very first manifestation as superconsciousness, there's a good Sanskrit word for it called ‘Mahat’, M, a, h, a, t, or the universal mind. That would be at the superconscious level. Now what differentiates it from the unmanifested mind is, that ‘Mahat’ or superconscious mind contains within itself the currents, fine currents of the previous existence, of the previous universal cycle. So, in the state of Pralaya or in the state of equilibrium of the superconscious mind, there are these very fine currents which become grosser and grosser and grosser. In other words, the current takes play. If we take the analogy of the ocean, we say the surface is turbulent with waves and it is quite at the bottom. But it is not so. It is apparently quite at the bottom of the ocean there exists those fine currents which create the turbulence on top. Because if the fine current were not there at the bottom of the ocean the surface would not have the turbulence. So, in the primal manifestation, the seeds are there, the underlying current is there for it to become expressed more and more. And as with everything else as the subtleness expresses itself more and more so does the more and more become grosser and grosser and that is how we land up here at High Leigh, (Gururaj laughs) right from that superconscious level. What a long journey? Aren't you tired? See? So, now the ego exists or has started from that fine current at the superconscious level. And as it became more and more grosser it became more and more individualised. And that is what we call the human personality. That is what we call the human ego. Man does not possess an ego. He is the ego. And because of the gravitational pull, because of the very nature of itself having come from that fineness it wants to reach back to that fineness and that is what the whole world, the whole universe all humanity all beings everywhere that is what it is all about everyone being drawn back to it's source. And that is why we consciously or unconsciously want to refine our grosser selves and become finer and finer and finer. Now when we apply conscious effort to it, then the progress is faster. With proper understandings given, the progress one makes becomes smoother. So there's speed and there's smoothness. Like we tell the new typist we hire, speed and accuracy. That's what we want. Not speed and mistakes or the other way round. We want speed and accuracy. We want to reach home to the source by accuracy we mean smoothness because anything, which is done inaccurately, cannot be smooth. And of course we want to reach there in the minimum of time. Because we can drift there by all means. Yes. But just imagine all the problems that we would have to go through just to drift along. We want to reach Piccadilly Circus and if we don't know the way, we'll go through stumbling around, bumbling around all the little streets of London and it's such a large place we can go on and on and on and not find your way. Because I have seen

5. UK 78- 49 people living in London themselves getting lost in London and ninety nine percent of the drivers carry a map in their car. Is that true? You see. And you live in London. You've been born here, brought up here and yet you've got to carry a map. How much not more so when you come to uncharted areas. So once we have the map, once we have planned the path, once we have been shown the path to reach Piccadilly Circus it becomes easier, smoother, quicker, you have on petrol. You help the country's economy. (Gururaj laughs) All these examples are used, meaning that it is the best way for us and for the environment that we are in. So the ego goes on towards not self-destruction. The ego is not something we possess. We are the ego. And it does not go on to self-destruction, but self-refinement until it just disintegrates into its original components. For the superconscious mind is also composed of these very fine currents that we spoke about and it goes back into those fine currents and you are left in the pure light. And there's no you anymore then, it is just the light. That's called merging away into Divinity and you become not the individual self anymore, but the universal self which is Divinity itself. Light without shadow. Okay. Good. Next question. Questioner. After that answer Guruji, it seems a bit stupid this question, but nevertheless. Gururaj. Sorry I didn't get that? Questioner.(Cont’d) After that answer then this question seems a little stupid. Gururaj. No question is stupid. No question is stupid. Questioner. (Cont’d). This is relating to last week at the Hayes about surrender and acceptance. Gururaj. You'll have to speak a bit slowly, the accent gets me a bit. It is a question relating to the Hayes? Questioner. (Cont’d). About surrender and acceptance. Gururaj. Surrender and acceptance.

6. UK 78- 49 Questioner. (Cont’d). When a feeling arises of not wishing to do or be anything save that which seems to be directed, it seems that a feeling of overwhelming bliss accompanies it. Please comment on the danger of ego or illusion connected with this feeling. The second part, is it healthy to feel you are just observing all occurrences no matter how painful, blissful or totally unbelievable they may seem? And the last part is, is it part of the spiritual path to feel sometimes almost unaware of what you are saying or doing as if something has taken over you and you are just watching a film of what has already happened? Gururaj. That is all very true, but I didn't get the first part really. What English is that? (Gururaj laughs) Questioner. (Cont’d). It's my own brand, I think. Gururaj. I didn't get the first, the first part got so involved in words that I just don't seem to get the gist of it. Questioner. (Cont’d). When one has a feeling of not wishing to do or be anything other than what one is or what one feels is directed or something, please comment on the danger of ego or illusion connected with this feeling? That was the first part of the question. Gururaj. Good. Yes. Don't go away. Sit down there. We'll come to the second part. What was meant there that there are some people that want to do nothing about their egos and they just want to stay where they are? Is that what it means really? Is that the gist of it? Aide. I think you meant when you have a feeling as if you’re settled and kind of complete inside and you don't really feel like you have to do anything, can this be an illusion? Is it always part of what happens as you grow spiritually and so on? Gururaj. Now, if you feel self-satisfied, right. There are two kinds of people that can feel totally self-satisfied, the self- realised and the lazy bum. (General laughter) Yes. The self-realised person has nowhere to go to, he has reached it all. He has become so one with all existence that he can't go beyond existence itself. He has stretched the rubber of his ego to its maximum limit and encompassed and covered the entire existence within himself. So therefore there is nowhere else to go. Good. But the lazy person feels self-satisfied because he is lazy. Now why is he lazy? That is the question. There is no person on earth that is a lazy person. No one. No one on earth although we use that word that he is lazy. A person would exhibit laziness or not wanting to do a thing because he is misplaced. He does not like a certain kind of job

7. UK 78- 49 therefore he does nothing and we call him lazy. Really speaking he is a misplaced person and it is a characteristic of the human personality to give off and expend energy all the time. So when such a person is placed in a circumstance or in a job which he does not like, he does not do anything as far as his job is concerned, but he spends that energy in something else and then we call him lazy. It is not, he is not lazy because he has to spend a required amount of energy it is his nature to spend that energy even if he likes it or not. So lazy people are misplaced people. Now, as far as spiritual progress or development is concerned, there too there is no laziness, but an illusion of laziness is created. The greatest reformers in the world have come to reform this attitude, to awaken or re-awaken the person into a path where the laziness itself becomes a self-propelling energy. So even on the spiritual path there is no laziness. There is no self-satisfaction. That sense of self satisfaction could be called an illusion. The person is undergoing a delusion that I need nothing more. I have it all. But if we study the lives of such people, we will find that the so-called facade of self-satisfaction is only a facade. And deep within him there might be more problems than the person we see around us. And we say oh how many problems this poor man has. So it is a delusion created by the person for himself and he is lulled into a kind of sleep. So what the reformer tries to do is to awaken him from his sleep and say, you cannot tarry there longer. So rather let me wake you up gently, because surely you will be awakened with a bang. So rather let me awaken you gently. So even on the spiritual path there cannot be the self satisfaction, because the very forces within us, the very forces that constitute the ego, the three Gunas that we have spoken about so much are forever in turbulence and this very turbulence is what pushes one further on and on and on. There is no rest for man until he reaches self-realisation. There is always a prodding on, a goading on by the forces within oneself to propel ourselves to reach home. And the rest only comes when that eternal home is reached, when we become one with eternity. But what could happen on the path which is a spiralling path. There comes a time where you are allowed to stop to catch your breath. Now the very process of catching your breath is for the purpose of goading you on more propelling you on faster. Now that is not delusion. For you have to reach, you have to reach your goal. So there is nothing, there is no truth in self-satisfaction where you do not want to do anything. Even if you do not try to do anything there is something happening within yourself all the time, as your heartbeats within yourself all the time, as the various cells that constitutes your body is broken down and rebuilt all the time. So that very personality is also going through various changes all the time even while you are asleep. The very moment you stand still, the whole of nature will stand still. That is why we have the saying that if Divinity sleeps for a moment, everything is destroyed. That's what it means. The second part of the question?

8. UK 78- 49 Questioner. The second part is, is it healthy to feel you are just observing all occurrences? Gururaj. Is it, sorry Questioner. (Cont’d). Is it healthy to feel you are just observing all occurrences not matter how painful, blissful or totally unbelievable they may seem at the time? Gururaj. What part of England do you come from? (General laughter) Questioner. (Cont’d). Somerset. Gururaj. Somerset. You know it's very fascinating, no, no, I say this with deep feeling in the heart, It is lovely really. It’s a real study of its own and my fascination for it lies in the fact that night and day I deal in mantric values in vibrations all the time. So the sounds, various kinds of sounds and how sounds are expressed becomes very, very fascinating to me. For is everything else not but a song, even some songs might lack clarity, to me at least. Fine. Is there any value in just observing the bliss or the pain or the joy or the suffering? There is value in observing if you have really become the observer. Now there is a difference between an observer and a bystander. An observer is a person who is totally involved in the situation that totally understands the situation and can observe it objectively. For h e knows the meaning of joy and sorrow. He has gone through it all, pardon. He has through it all perhaps not in this lifetime, perhaps in other lifetimes he knows what it is and by experience, by understanding he can stand apart as an observer and know what it is all about. But the bystander he's something different. He tries to be a passenger. He stands aside. He escapes the situation and deludes himself into thinking that he is observing. He is not observing. Because observation means understanding of that which is observed. When a person is writhing with pain and you stand there, you think you are observing the person going through the pain. You are not observing it really, you are just standing by as if you are watching the cinema screen totally uninvolved with the pain. You delude yourself for example that you feel sympathy, you feel sorry. You delude yourself in thinking that an empathy exists that you feel the pain of the person that is in pain. Those are delusions and illusions of the bystander who thinks he is an observer, who thinks he is an observer.

9. UK 78- 49 So there is a fine diving line in just standing by and observing. Now you will notice this Charlie Chaplin made a fortune on this very factor. Good. He created situations in his films where a person would slip on a banana peel and everyone starts laughing. Yes. Yes. Why? Why? Because you are a bystander and the pain that person suffers in slipping on the banana peel is not felt by you, because you are a bystander. And it seems such fun at that moment as a bystander the unconscious thought would be there thank God I did not slip, I'm safe to hell with the world. Yes. That is the bystander. But the real observer would never laugh at those films. He would feel the pain of the person slipping on the banana peel and say oh dear me he must have really hurt himself at the most tender spots. That is the observer, the true observer develops an empathy. It is only the true observer that after observing is the one that wants to help and relieve the person that is in pain. While the bystander just enjoys the scene perhaps and off he goes again, totally unconnected. He thinks he is totally unconnected and disconnected. And that is his very fault, for because of that disconnection with the situation he will come into circumstances himself and he will learn when other bystanders find themselves totally disconnected with him. That is the law of karma. That is the law of change and growth, where you are put into circumstances whereby you learn, whereby you cease to be the bystander, but the observing participant. Right. Third part. Gururaj. Is that about an hour we have spoken? We can still do another question, I'm sure. Questioner. Guruji, could you just link the last answer you've given to the talks you've been describing what happens in the chant. I'm a bit confused now. You've talked about this separation in the chant, is bystanding or observing? Gururaj. Lovely. Yes. That is very beautiful really. What happens in chanting is this, that when we have talked just now of the bystander and the observer, we have spoken on relative levels. Relative levels or within the framework and functioning of the ego. Right. The ego learns by observing and participating and the ego too learns by bystanding. One is the difficult method and the other is the answer and making the method easier. Chanting is a different thing altogether. For in the chant, it is not the individual personality that is involved only. It is not only the relative self that is involved only, but a recognition comes of the absolute self. In the last answer we were talking of the relative self only, where the mind o f man dividing itself becomes the observer and the observed. But in true chanting you appreciate the steadiness of the inner self, the steadiness, the unchangeability of the absolute self within man which observes the small self, the ego self performing.

10. UK 78- 49 So when a person gets to the true level of chant, the chant just happens automatically. So here we are not destroying the small self. We are not sublimating the small self, but by the sound values involved that we have explained before tapes have been made of it, by using certain vibrations the ego self becomes expanded or refined. And in that way, in that way the absolute self is experienced. Here the purpose of chanting is not to go beyond the ego. The purpose of chanting is to know that the separation exists in ourselves between the observer and the object of observation. Because it is only by knowing the separation that the oneness can be found. So, the purpose of chanting is aimed at a totally different level. It operates on a different level altogether and not on the level that we have been talking about in the previous question. Okay. Good. I think we've had enough today. END

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