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1. UK 80- 16 Questioner. Guruji, how do we retain our individuality when we – Turiya, the name of the state we reach after our incarnation? Gururaj. .......... (Inaudible)..... alright, now the stage of Turiya, while in the living body you retain an individuality because even a Sage or a Saint or an Incarnation has to have that slight bit of individuality. If he did not have that, he would not be able to function in this world. Firstly he won't be able to relate to people, he won't be able to eat, he won't be able to do , perform any of the biological functions that are necessary. So that bit of individuality is retained until he sheds his body and as we said in one of the lectures, after shedding the physical body, the ice-cube melts away in the glass of water and then it is into the, then he is in the realm of the Infinite. So while man is embodied, he will definitely retain that trace of individuality, in other words that trace of ego but in a very refined state. Good. Questioner. It might sound a bit silly, Guruji Gururaj. Nothing is silly. Questioner (Cont'd). We were talking about credit cards today. I wondered if you could give us a little thing about credit cards, where you can go somewhere and you've got a piece of plastic and you can get anything you like but you have to pay later. Gururaj. Good. Now the people that invented credit cards did the greatest disservice to mankind. There had been a survey taken in America that everyone is living three years in advance of what he's earning. Yes. That means he will, the debts that he has incurred today because of the credit card, he will have to work three years in the future to pay off today's debts. Now can we this credit card system to karma? That would be nice. Do all the karma today and pay, you know, later. Now this is possible and that is the beauty. By spiritual practices, I have said this before many times, it's not cash on demand - when a person does spiritual practices and is on the spiritual path, then he pays off that karma on easy terms. And when he pays off on easy terms, he does not feel that impact of trying to get together the money that is required. So karma can also have credit cards, yes, but then again credit cards are based upon your credit. If you are not worthy of credit, you will not be issued a credit card. So they go into your background, they see what job you are doing and how long you are in the job and how good you have been paying your accounts. If we apply the same principle to our daily life and pay our karmic accounts regularly, then we can have the advantage of the karmic credit card. (Gururaj laughs) Good. Next.

2. UK 80- 16 Questioner. You know other times I read about the evolutionary processing in man and even this morning you spoke about it and I can't understand why, why men, why men have mistaken the path and looked outside and not inside? Yesterday morning it seemed for me that the evolutionary process has taken another way. Do you understand? Gururaj. Yes, I understand. The evolutionary path has not taken another way, it only has one way, but why we think it has taken another way is because of the hurdles that we have to cross. Now there is a misconception that the evolutionary path is very easy, it's a garden of roses. It is a garden of roses but there are a lot of thorns with the roses . So, many people forget the roses and just think of the thorns and that is called negative thinking. And that is why the evolutionary path seems so difficult. But if you have your eyes on the roses, then you miss the thorns. So the evolutionary path could be very easy because it is flowing with the laws of nature and anything that is in accordance with the laws of nature is always smooth. And we with our little minds and intellects and powers of analysis, we are the ones that create a molehill into a mountain. Many times you will find that people have some problems and they are so small but yet are magnify it so much in their minds that it is totally out of proportion. Now that is why we feel that there's another path, but there is one thing to be remembered, that with evolution there is involution. By that we mean, evolution is an expression while involution is the opposite of expression. Could we call it impression? Although impression has different connotations. So what it actually means, to illustrate it, that the entire tree exists in an involved form in the seed and when the seed expresses itself, it has evolved itself. So on this path we go through evolution and involution, contraction and expansion and if there was no contraction there will not be expansion. Now when we go through a period of contraction, then we feel tight inside, but that very introversion that we go through, is the stepping stone to the extroversion - the very involution is the very stepping stone for evolution. And then there comes a time when we feel we are just standing still and there's no progress made. Now the reason for this is this, that if you want to go, if you go to a building that is six storeys high and you, - there is no elevator - then you have to climb the stairs. So at every six or eight steps there is a landing and then another six or eight steps and another landing comes. Now in the spiritual path this also happens, where you have climbed the six or eight steps and you come to this landing where you rest. Now with spiritual practices, the physiology, the chemistry, the biochemistry, the psychology etc of a person goes through a certain form of refinement. Now when we go through this form of refinement, we have to allow the nervous system to catch up with it. And that is why the so-called period of stagnation comes about, but it is really not stagnation, it is giving the subtle nervous system a

3. UK 80- 16 chance to catch up with the progress that you have made. So when that levels up then up you go again. And that's how it works. Good. Next. Questioner. This morning you alluded to, or you mentioned thoughts during meditation and how to regard them, and that one should not try and ignore thoughts or get away from them; also telepathic experiences during meditation, awareness of other people's meditation when one's doing one's own meditation and how to avoid just shutting off from other people one's living with. How to balance all this, please? Gururaj. Good, good. Many people are worried about thoughts in meditation and this is a misconception. Many people say, and this has originated in the East, many people say that in meditation there should be no thoughts in the mind, the mind should be blank and that is erroneous. The mind could never be blank. There comes a time when you would find a certain blankness in the ten percent conscious mind but your mind could never become totally blank, for the sub- conscious would be working all the time. Like in sleep, the conscious mind goes to sleep but the sub-conscious mind is forever working. Many people complain that when I sit down to meditate lots of thoughts rush through my mind. Now that is good, let them rush through the mind. Now a thought is like a story, it has a beginning, a middle and an end, so as the thought is tapering off at the end, you very easily and effortlessly introduce your mantra and as that mantra fades away, another thought will come. Now we think that a thought lasts for half an hour; it does not. A thought cannot last that long because man's mind is so fragmented that he cannot, by thought here we could equate it with contemplation, and man's mind cannot systematically start a thought and preserve that thought for a period of time. Man's mind can only have a thought for a few seconds at a time and then there has to be a gap which might not be noticeable to people. So what you are experiencing is a whole series of thoughts, most of the times disconnected. You will think for a second of Auntie Mary and then you will think of the pudding you have got in the oven and then you will think of, what you are going to wear tomorrow to the party, totally disjointed. Proper contemplation is like pouring oil from one vessel into another without break and that comes about through a concentrated mind, a mind that could focus all its energy to a focal point. And that is why the practice of Tratak is so important that it will help you to concentrate and by being able to concentrate, you will contemplate. Now when thoughts occur in the mind, there is nothing wrong with it because once the mind goes totally blank, in the present state of man's mind, he could very easily go into self hypnosis and he could also very easily go into a form of

4. UK 80- 16 a catatonic state, which is not a healthy state at all. So when the thought comes or as many as they like, let them come, le t the story finish, and you get back onto your mantra. And when that ends, another thought will appear from the sub- conscious to the conscious level, but the secret here is this, when these thoughts come, you are not to be involved in the thought. Now what do we mean by involvement in thought, is that you must not be emotionally involved. And so Auntie Mary was not kind to you, so here the thought of Auntie Mary comes up and when you say "Oh, she wasn't kind to me", so you feel angry. Now that anger is an emotion. Think of the unkindness of Auntie Mary by all means, but objectify the thought, view the actions of Auntie Mary as if you are looking at motion picture, looking at a film and view it detachedly. Then that very thought, that detachment or non-attachment to the thought is in itself a form of meditation, you see. So meditation is an alternation between mantra and thought and mantra and thought, a smooth transition from one to the other. So those meditators who have all these thoughts cropping up are not to be bothered. As a matter of fact they are emptying the sub-conscious mind of a lot of samskaras, lot of impressions and they are letting it off, they're letting off the steam. And that is how, partly how, a lot of the stresses can be resolved. Now the same thing happens in dreams. If you dream it's a wonderful mechanism and if you have nightmares that's even better, for all the dirt clogging the mind is thrown off. All the horrifying thoughts that are existing in the mind in seed form are being dispelled. Now if you had to really live in the waking state of life the experiences of the nightmares, you will not be able to live. Life would become extremely difficult. So you see how wonderful nature is or how wonderful God is. He has given man all these safety valves to rid himself of the impressions, the samskaras, so that he could be led to God, because God is always calling. He says "Come, come, come, come, come" and therefore has given the safety valves. So when these thoughts come about and one must be very careful when one talks of telepathic thoughts. Those which are regarded to be telepathic thoughts could just be one's imagination, could just be hallucinations. And there are some people that might have that psychic ability to receive thoughts of others but they must just be regarded as thoughts and no importance must be attached to them because they could be the greatest stumbling block in one's spiritual progress. All the greatest Saints and Sages have said that do not, do not be waylaid by what they call Siddhis. You leave your front door and want to go to the garden gate, there are beautiful flowers in your garden, you don't get stuck there. As you pass you admire them, you say "Ah, they're so lovely, look at the lovely colours", but you march on the path and reach the gate because you have to go out. So all these Siddhis or sometimes they are called occult powers is not our line. I could teach each and every one of you any particular Siddhi that you want to have but I shall not do that. I'd be doing a great disservice because you'd be blocking your path towards God. And this has been said by all the greatest

5. UK 80- 16 Sages in the world. Even Jesus, when he was asked, when he healed the people, he never said "It is my power" or the power of whatever, he said "Thy faith has healed thee". So it is through faith and love that one reaches one's goal and not by the development of these occult powers or Siddhis. And you will find that people that have developed these occult powers are normally or do normally become very unstable. They become unstable, emotionally unstable. They develop various kinds of neurological diseases, psychosis, neurosis, you name it, - they become psychotic. If you read this book, Discoveries, 'Psychic Discoveries behind the Iron Curtain', you'd find that there's one woman who does P. K., Photokinesis - is that how you pronounce it - good, yah, that is just by sheer power of thought shifting solid objects from one place to the other. Oh these things are possible, the mind is a very, very powerful instrument. And with a concentrated mind, with total concentration on a particular thing, all this can be achieved but it is of no value whatsoever. People on the spiritual path want to find that joy and bliss, while these sidetrackings can only bring unhappiness and misery. So when, if you feel you are receiving telepathic messages, you can verify them if they are really telepathic or if it is just your imagination, you can verify them. And if they are telepathic, you regard them as a thought because we have no right whatsoever to pry into the minds of others. Your mind, your make-up, your evolution is your personal property. The only person that might have that right is a person who is a man of God and his love and compassion would be so great that it would, inevitably he would lend a helping hand to cross over the many hurdles of life. Otherwise, for others, it is of no use and no good, you'd only be doing harm. For example I would say never ever allow yourself to be subjected to hypnosis. Don't do that because - anyone can hypnotise by the way, it's very easy, I can teach it to you in ten minutes; anyone can do that, but remember the hypnotist also has his samskaras. Show me one hypnotist who is a man of God, I mean that has realised God, because if he has realised God, he would never think of hypnotism. So when he makes these suggestions to your conscious mind and puts it to sleep, which is very easy - you are doing it every day actually with your baby; you pat the baby in on the back in a rhythmic fashion and the baby gets used to that rhythm and that rhythm lulls it to sleep. But that's a good thing because there's no actual thought here that is imparted. Hypnotism is also a form of creating a rhythm, so when the hypnotist speaks, you know, "You are going into a deep, deep sleep". Ah bull. Ah. So he does that. Now the point which I am trying to make here is this, that with the suggestion, with the force of thought and you don't require much force there, he is also imparting to you all the negativity that is within him because he is working on your sub-conscious mind and is implanting a lot of his own personal negativity through the process of hypnotism. So I would strongly advise never subject yourself to hypnotism - although I know that there are hypno-therapists and it has become quite a profession today. Good. Fine. Next.

6. UK 80- 16 Questioner. I don't want to make this answer too long but if one has a devotion or a religion and one has the object of one's devotion appear within one's meditation and one's tempted to leave one's mantra and give oneself to this? Gururaj. Good, good, good, good. Now why can't that object become a Mantra? Next. Questioner(Cont’d). Yes, but you prescribe the mantra and if where one has say a cross and there's Jesus and so on - shall we just leave the mantra alone and go onto that or? Gururaj. You can do that if you wish to. Meditation is also an experimentation. You adapt it to yourself, but do not lose sight of the goal because the Mantra is you, the Mantra is you. If you take a person, if there was some means of reducing that person, his body, mind and spirit to sound level, the Mantra that has been given to you would be the sound that would emanate. The rest is a superimposition upon the Mantra. So we have religious symbols, they're in every faith and we can see on the board all the symbols we have. Regard those symbols as something super-imposed upon your personal vibration. There's nothing wrong with that. Good, but don't neglect one for the other because that symbol which appears to you might just be imaginary. How do you know of its reality unless you become that symbol. Then it is real and when yo u become that symbol, then you'll appreciate your Mantra more because your very Mantra has created the symbol and there is no differentiation between the symbol and the Mantra. You are getting on very well Graham, I could see that, yes, very good. Questioner. Guruji, my question is from the Christian point of view, one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith of course is the doctrine of atonement or washing away of sins by the blood of Christ and this is celebrated in every act of Holy Communion, Mass or Eucharist. How do you view that doctrine as a concept? Gururaj. Yes. There is a great amount of truth, atonement, there is a great amount of truth in that but the problem has been that it has been misinterpreted. When we say Christ suffered for our sins, that is also very true but how has it been interpreted? It has never been a question of Krishna or Christ or Buddha coming along to you and taking your burden away from you, lifting it off because even Gods or Divinity itself cannot alter the laws of nature. What it really means is this, that He goes through sufferings not caring for Himself. He'll go through all kinds of indignities, not caring for Himself so that He can help others. Because, as we spoke this morning, His ego-self cannot and must not come in the way for the grace of the Lord, grace of God, the Gurushakti to flow. So He goes through all these sufferings. For example I,

7. UK 80- 16 sometimes I don't eat, sometimes I don't need to do this or that because of circumstances, while meanwhile I could get a job at fifty thousand pounds a year anytime. You see. So these are the kinds of sufferings that is mentioned and so misunderstood by people, that all these great personages come along and lift your sins away. 'He died for your sins', that is also very true but so misinterpreted. By dying for our sins means that He set Himself as an example. In the darkness He set Himself alight as a torch so that we could have light and therefore He said "I am the way, I am the life, I am the truth". This has been said by all the great Incarnations in the world. So those are the sufferings where a great Master denies himself anything and everything so that his sheep are well looked after and even for one stray one he would go a mile and if not more. So, and that is how, that is how by following the life and the way, there is an atonement and that benefits mankind. And this consciousness is forever there. I don't know where I spoke about this but I said that Christ never died, He never died and by Christ I don't mean the body of Jesus, I'm talking of that consciousness, that Christ consciousness or Krishna consciousness or Buddha consciousness is forever eternal and forever alive. And that is why we speak of the living God, the living Christ and that is what we mean, the pure consciousness, the purest level of manifestation which is represented in bodily form from time to time. And yet, and yet a man whose energy was so great that even after two thousand years we can still feel that energy, we can still feel it for those that are perceptive enough. We can still feel the energy of Moses for those that are perceptive enough, of Buddha and of Krishna and they lived thousands of years ago. Pardon, look I'll say pardon for once and when I cough again, I won't say pardon again. So that pure consciousness is eternal and forever existing but from time to time it takes bodily form when the great imbalance occurs. That is why Krishna said in the Gita that "When evil rises and truth is subdued, I come from age to age", even he added on, that "Fools deride me for they do not know me". And the same thing, same story with Jesus, same story. It's a pattern, recurring pattern all the time. Okay. Fine. Questioner. When we see people who need help and we want to help them, sometimes it's difficult to know when to say yes and when to say no, can you give an answer on that? Gururaj. Oh yes, oh yes, after I have some water, okay? Yah, thank you, that was lovely. When people come for help it is difficult to decide when to say yes and when to say no. The answer should always be yes, the answer should always be yes. Help is not to be denied to anyone, be he a thief or be he a murderer or be he a saint. Now if a person is a thief, how are you going to help him? Not by hiding him away from the police, you'd be then not helping him. But if he comes to you, by explaining to him that he has committed an act which is anti-social and which will harm so many people – ‘You have robbed a person of his wallet on p ay -day’ - that person might have a wife and children at home, who knows, how do

8. UK 80- 16 you know that a child, a little baby might be so ill, and that money might be required for doctors and medicines. Well here I suppose you operate on a different system, but I am talking of my country. So the proper help that is given is by changing the mind and the heart of the person. If you give someone a plate of food, he is hungry, fine, give the plate of food, but in two hours time he will be hungry again and he'll be exactly where he was. If you give a person fifty pounds, so a week will go by and he'll be broke again but if you give him understanding, if you give him knowledge, you are giving him something that will endure for life. So that is the kind of help that is the most important. Now where mundane help is required, worldly help and if you can, do by all means but the greater help is to change the mode of thinking, to change the mode of thinking of that thief that he will not steal again. Yes. Why is he stealing in the first place? Why, when there are so many opportunities for honest money in this world. Why is he stealing? Because of some inner frustration. Now if we get to the root of it, what the frustration is, then he could be rehabilitated in not wanting to steal again because that frustration can bring about so many other non-virtues, such as laziness, all these things. So that is the kind of help and help must never be refused. When the prostitute came to Jesus, what did Jesus say? "I forgive you my daughter but sin no more" and a transformation came about. It was a gradual one but those words stuck in the mind of the person concerned and it stuck in the mind of Mary Magdalene so much that she became more important to Jesus than all his disciples. So what a transformation with those few words. Okay. Questioner. Guruji, you have said that the Avatar or the Incarnation comes when he's needed. What happens to the seekers of truth on the path when he's not here? Gururaj. He leaves, he leaves his teachings behind and those that really understand his teachings will perpetuate his teachings. So here Christianity is still practised today. Millions of people practise Christianity, very beautiful, good. I had to write out something for press release last night, was it and I said that we want to fill the churches and the temples and the synagogues and not empty them. It is because of these misunderstandings that they are becoming emptier by the day. We don't teach religion. We teach the basis of religion and that that we teach a person to become human. So what we are basically teaching is human-ness and when a person becomes a complete human then he is very close to God. So we want to fill the churches, we want to fill the synagogues and the mosques and the temples. There has been so many, so much technological progress, there has been so much emphasis on the mind that people have forgotten what the heart is all about. People have forgotten the teachings of Christ and Krishna and all these

9. UK 80- 16 guys. They have forgotten that. So what we want to do is to bring that back, to revive it in such a way that modern man can accept it. See, nothing new, nothing new, same old thing of love and hope and charity and compassion and, same thing, same thing, and yet not denying the development of the mind. Let the mind develop but let there be a co-ordination between mind and heart so that the heart also, through meditational practices and understanding of what truth is all about, through these methods, to open the heart so that the heart merges into the mind and the mind merges into the heart. And that is how, when any thinking comes about it will be proper thinking. The basis of all thought would be love and when that is there, there would be greater peace in the hearts of man and greater peace in his environment. It is our duty to do that, it is our duty. So we are doing it to lessen the miseries and the sufferings we go through. We're doing it for ourselves and the environment is automatically benefited. Like I always say, that it is the nature of the flower to be beautiful but that's not the only thing it does, it automatically beautifies the garden as well. So you see how important every person is to make this world a better place and if we can't make this world a better place, let us leave this world a better person, each and every one of us. Simple, very simple. Questioner. Guruji, just to expand a little bit on the question, if the mission of an enlightened man and an Avatar is the same, is there a difference between an enlightened man and an Avatar? Gururaj. Yes, big difference. An Avatar is born enlightened, while an enlightened man is one who has reached enlightenment in this lifetime. That is the difference. There have been many enlightened men throughout the ages and once they become enlightened what happens to them? They merge into the Avatar. For they have found oneness with the Avatar who is the essence of the entire universe. That's all. You will reach there, oh yes. Questioner. In this month's edition of 'Yoga today', it states that on the current world scene, nineteen gurus are claiming to be the long awaited Avatar or Messiah. (General laughter) Could you explain how such confusion and delusion can occur in people who are following similar techniques to the ones that you are asking us to perform? Gururaj. Similar techniques? (General laughter) Are you sure? Questioner. (Cont’d). According to 'Yoga Today' they are using mantra meditation and Tratak. Gururaj. Ah hah. Ah hah. Now when you talk of, firstly they say nineteen, they've made a mistake. Yeah. It should be a thousand and nineteen because everywhere you go, everyone is claiming 'I am the Messiah, I am the Avatar' and the real

10. UK 80- 16 Avatar makes no claims whatsoever. The real Avatar gives you a little hint here and there: wake up a bit, wake up, wake up, wake up; that's what the real Avatar does. In the time of Christ when He was asked "Are you the Messiah?" He said "No" and yet He was. In today's age the real Messiah is forced to give some little hint, some little sign, otherwise there would be chaos. Now out of the thousand and nineteen that are claiming to be Messiahs - now this has been predicted - that 'Many will come in my name', false prophets. Now I am trying to work out - have you got pen and paper here - we'll leave that for the room - I am trying to work out that these one thousand and nineteen, how much karma are they incurring, and how much karma are they incurring and what will be the effect of that karma on this world? It is a dilemma. I don't suppose I could work it out on pen and paper. It is a great dilemma but you will find that when a great spiritual force comes into this world, you will find the opposition just as great because wherever there is resistance, the greater the resistance, the harder you have to push. And the harder you push, the more lasting is the impression left, see, because by pushing harder, you are releasing a greater amount of energy. And by releasing a greater amount of energy, the longer will it last, until when that starts wearing out, the Incarnation - there can only be one - will return again. So this thousand and nineteen or five thousand and nineteen so-called Avatars, they call themselves Bhagwan, God, you know, oh it's such a shame, such a pity. Why don't they just go about teaching truths and things like that and, as they understand it? We have all kinds of teachers; you have kindergarten teachers, you have primary school teachers, high school teachers, university teachers, they all have their place. And why don't they just do their work according to their understanding, then this would be a better world. But by making such claims, they want to attract more and more people to themselves and when they attract more and more people to themselves, they can charge five hundred-dollar fees at a time. Business. And they are not unintelligent people - intelligent people. There is, when I went to India about a year ago I went to visit some Ashrams and this one particular Swami who was a professor of, I think it was theology or mathematics I can't remember what, he set up an Ashram and started teaching all kinds of Tantric practices. I spent an hour and a half with him. He normally does not see people but I had arranged before hand and I gave him virtually hell. Yah. I said, first of all "Why did you come from there?" Yes. He was teaching Tantric practices and of course which is based on sexo-psychological factors. I says, "These youngsters that come to you are not ready for that kind of practice. It is only after you have total control of all your senses, where you become totally lust free, then only can you - otherwise you are wasting your damn time and charging six hundred dollars a month to the people who comes there". He couldn't answer back, he couldn't, he kept quiet. So that is the tragedy, that is the tragedy. You find that everywhere in everything. You go to a butcher's shop and they tell you this is first grade meat and they'll push on tenderised third grade stuff. It happens in every business. You go to a fruit shop and you buy a dozen

11. UK 80- 16 apples and you can be sure that one of them will be slightly off, in that packet. So this is the tragedy of life. And that is why man requires this regeneration. And today there is this awakening where man wants to know, man wants to experience something, which is far greater than himself. It is an inner urge and because of the influences in the world today, this urge has become much more stronger. You see? So there is always a balancing factor in everything, always a balancing factor. That evil rises and then simultaneously an urge will arise to overcome this evil, you see. And that is why man seeks today. We were telling this at the Teachers’ Course at High Leigh, that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people in England that have not heard of us. If they would hear of us, they would gladly come and learn, gain some little wisdom that we could impart and do their practices and some transformation would come into their lives for their betterment. So I told the teachers "Work hard". As a matter of fact, in this room I finished all the Review Forms and I've marked off some of them and I said "Have you ever thought of becoming a teacher?" There's great potential in this room as it is. And even as meditators, speak to people, speak to people of what benefits you have received or whatever it has done to you. Invite them home, you don't need to be a teacher, just a meditator. Invite half a dozen friends home for a cup of tea and some biscuits and put on a tape or something and it would be a nice topic for conversation instead of what kind of dress did she have on at last Saturday’s party, things like that. That's piffle. (Gururaj laughs) For the more the mind is attuned to higher things, better things, the more understanding is gained, the more purity of the mind and heart is gained. Oh yes, you've got to balance things, you can talk a lot of rubbish also sometimes, you must, you must, you must but also think of higher things. It's good and it's nice to share with people, only cost you a couple of cups of tea really and then refer them over to the teacher in the area or whatever. It works, yes boy, it does. Good. Next. Questioner. Guruji, you quoted Jesus as saying that the man had been restored by faith. That seems to suggest that it's possible, by a change of attitude, by being receptive to Divine love, you become one. Can you comment on the meaning of karmic debt in the light of that which seems to be more of a bank balance that has to be paid off? Gururaj. Right, right, right, that's very true. When He said that "Thy faith has healed thee", that is very true. You were ready to be healed, there was a bit missing, you had to pay a hundred pounds to the bank, overdraft, five hundred pounds and you had four hundred and ninety-eight, so you are healing yourself with your faith. But who is the inspirer of that faith and gave you that two pounds to square your debt, your karmic debt with that eternal bank? You see. So if you are not ready to be healed and if you have a karmic debt, you will not be made whole. To heal is to make whole. And it's like a child writing an exam, he has done very well throughout the year and just at the exam time he might have gone through a

12. UK 80- 16 fit of nerves and did badly and instead of having the forty percent required to pass, he has thirty-eight percent. So the teacher goes through the year's record and sees that, look, this child must have not been well because he has done very well throughout the year, so gives him those few extra marks and pushes him on. So when Jesus said "Thy faith has healed thee", that does not mean that person has healed himself alone, ninety-eight percent yes but the inspirer of the faith, the one that pushed him along was Jesus, you see. Now at that time there were - he cured just a handful of blind people perhaps, a handful of lame people - now at that time there were thousands and thousands of blind people, there were thousands and thousands of lame people. Why did He not cure them all? Do you think He was so unfair? So a lot depends on you, how ready you are for that. And all our spiritual practices are nothing else but a preparation to bring you to that readiness to become whole. You see. That's how it works. One thing is sure that when you are in the presence of a Master like Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, there is a spiritual energy that is sent forth that makes that karmic debt very easy. It's not that you do not have to travel the path, you have to, but all the stones and things are wiped away and your path is definitely smoother because of the spiritual force that has been generated. And that is how these great Masters worked and they are still working that way. Oh yes, because that force is eternal, no denial of that at all. Next. Qu estioner. Guruji, are we capable of having a spiritual experience in the relative existence or are we mostly deluding ourselves ? Gururaj. Oh yes, you are capable of having a spiritual experience in the relative existence because there is no differentiation between the relative and the absolute. We spoke about it sometime this week where we said that the Manifestor and manifestation is one. Now many people would have certain glimpses now and then of that which is beyond but the whole idea of constantly doing our practices is to bring permanency to those experiences and not just these glimpses. These glimpses could be very encouraging, that's fine, they could be very encouraging and even some people that don't have these glimpses do not need to worry. You know, there is a card game called rummy. When I was a youngster I used to love playing this game amongst friends. Now you'd find some people making up - you know the game, Rummy - making up the sets, three kings or two, three, four, of a suit or something like that, right. Tell me where I am wrong because I don't remember it too well now. You make up sets and you put them out, those are your glimpses, right. Now when you put them out, you put out a suit of hearts like five, six, seven so the other person can add on eight, nine, ten or whatever. So you are helping him. Now the master-player holds all his cards, he puts out nothing. Then with one grand slam he packs out all his cards and he's got the game, he's won the game, brilliant. So therefore if you don't

13. UK 80- 16 have little glimpses, it doesn't matter but if you are sincere and you do your practices and self effort and things like that , then with one great big slam that lightning will strike you and lift you into that, ah, bliss and you have won the game. Next. Questioner. Guruji, if one has been very close to someone in a previous life, what is the likelihood of coming across that same self in a later existence? Gururaj. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Now if you are very close to someone in a previous life - now you got to know what you mean by closeness. You can be a very close business associate, which could mean nothing. But if there is a very deep bond of love and that deep bond of love that has not reached its culmination in self realisation, will definitely meet again in this life time because that bond of love is so strong that even after shedding the body, you have not separated, you have not separated. That bond of love is so strong and when the time is ready it will take on a body. And never mind where you are, you could live in the Arctic and the other could be living in the Antarctic and yet the circumstances will arise where you will meet, where you will meet. And you will just know, just know. And is why they talk of love at first sight, they don't know the deeper meaning behind that. By love at first sight they, what they mean is 'Ah, she is pretty and he is nice' and you know, they speak to each other and 'We fell in love'. It is just infatuation. Love grows, it takes years to grow. It's a seed planted by two people. It has to be nurtured to its fullest glory and when the full flower flourishes the n you can say, "Ah, we love each other". Until then it's a preparation to that because when you really love your beloved, when you really love your spouse, then you will have found God. So when the bond of love is very, very strong then what is happening is that it is an activation of a Divine force and this Divine force is not divisible, you cannot divide it. So this transitory bodies might fall away, anything born must die, must decay and die, that's the law of nature. But then they take up bodies again and they definitely will meet. They definitely will meet again and from a deep level of knowingness, they just know, they just know that 'we have met'. I have found that with a lot of our chelas, I have found that with a lot of our chelas on all the various Courses, here, America, Spain, Denmark, all over, where I just know that I have known them very, very closely, very, very closely, a deep love. Now that love is not necessarily confined to man and woman, no, none of that kind of love. Love can assume so many different aspects. It could be a very deep bond and love between guru and chela for example, between mother and son, father and daughter, father and son. It could be a very deep bond and when that bond is there, you will definitely meet again. And it has happened a lot in our organisation, where people living on the opposite ends of the world just meet and they are together, very happily together in many, many instances.

14. UK 80- 16 So this, this is so, this is so, this is so. And many people talk of dharmic partners, what about karmic partners, have you thought of that? Where two people meet and each one acts as a catalyst to each other, to bring out the best in each other. That's karmic partners. And dharmic partners is so combined to karmic partners that they live together in a dharmic way, dutiful way, whereby they proceed on the path of evolution that is easier. The Karmic partners is a bit more difficult, little obstacles in the way, the obstacles of karma, you see. Okay. Questioner. We have started the New Year and all round the world there seems to be terrible events happening in Cambodia and so on. Are we heading inevitably for a third world war or will mankind pass over this phase and what can we as meditators do? Gururaj. Yes. You have not been listening to many of our tapes unfortunately. I have talked about this on several occasions that at the turn of the century, round about two thousand and twenty-five, two thousand and fifty, a great calamity, there is a tendency for a great calamity to happen and this calamity will be engineered by man in a power struggle. There are so many inventions in the world today, weapons etc., war weapons that have been suppressed by governments, for they are so, so dangerous and this entire little planet can blow up in a second. That holocaust, is that what you call it, could be so powerful that it will not only destroy this earth but it will destroy or affect so much the entire solar system and the reverberations of this solar system will in turn affect this galaxy. And like that, the ripples will go on and it will start on this tiny speck we call earth. Now there are many outside forces from other planets that are trying to communicate and prevent this, not for our sake but for their sakes. And even in our solar system there are planets more than the nine, - nine that we have discovered, is it nine? - there are more than that and the UFO's, although many people are denying them, especially from government circles but there are such things and those people are trying to c ommunicate with us. In South Africa a flying saucer landed on a farm, so what this farmer went to do, he went to get his shotgun - there was all the pictures of the thing and everything was there in the papers - and shot at it and things like that and the thing left, you see. So the communication that is, that they are trying, those we call people from outer space, is for a good purpose, to stop all the things that will bring about this great catastrophe. I've been saying this for years and recently Linus Pauling, who is a twice Nobel Prize winner, he, from - he's a physicist and as a physicist he also sees the tendencies towards this happening. Look at the neutron bomb where all the buildings would remain intact but all humans will die. There is so many inventions in the line of germ warfare that it could kill off the entire population of London in a day. There are so many other inventions that are far, far more powerful than the hydrogen bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima. These

15. UK 80- 16 things have been kept quiet so that no panic will be created, you see. Now that is why teaching as many people to meditate is so important, so that with the expansion of the heart combined with the technological progress, they will not use these various inventions in a wrong way because if the heart is filled with love you will not use things destructively. And this tendency can be averted, definitely can be averted. That is why we are doing this and we've got twenty-five, thirty years to try and do as much as we can around the world. It is a job and no magic wand can wave this away. It requires hard work, sweat and blood to avert these things, to change the hearts of men and thereby change their minds. Yah. Next. Questioner. When a person is born, is his date of death already established? Gururaj. When a person is born, his date of death is not established. Now that is a belief of one particular religion that when you are born, who you are going to marry is written down in the books already, what kind of work you are going to do is written in the books already and the date of your death is written in the books. Now the question is, is the date of your death established? No. Life can be prolonged as long as the body can be kept healthy. And this has to be started at a very young age, since the time of a child's birth and if he is well trained to eat, as he grows up, to eat the proper foods and the proper exercise and the proper mental attitude towards life, then he can live, he can live, he can live to a very ripe old age. He can postpone his death and keep on postponing it. We have, most of us, through our kind of work perhaps or what we have gone through, have ruined our bodies and sometimes it is too late to remedy that. But if from the beginning, proper care is taken of the body and mind you can live for hundreds of years, oh yes. In ancient times the Sages, according to the ancient literature in Sanskrit that we have and that I have studied, it was very common to hear a person living to the age of four hundred, five hundred, six hundred and then if they want to leave their body, they did it by will. And even now, even now if your body's wrecked because how you have lived or worked too hard or over exerted yourself, you can still prolong your body by sheer will. But it has to be done for an altruistic purpose, it has to be done not for self, not for, because that is selfishness, it has to be done for the benefit of mankind. Oh yes. When I was fifteen years old, I was born with a congenital heart problem. When I was fifteen years old and they discovered this, they said "You've got six months to live" and I say "Go to hell". Yeah, like that, like that. So there are a lot of factors that play a part in this. There's a place, north of Afghanistan I think, where a person a hundred years old is regarded to be a youngster. They do this farming and it's on a tier system and these hundred year young men run up and down. They eat very pure foods, meat very seldom and lots of exercise doing that farming, running up and down and pure clean air up there top in the hills. So they live up to a hundred and fifty, a hundred and seventy-five, two hundred,

16. UK 80- 16 they do. So where is the determination of a person's death when that same person from that area was brought to London or New York or those places he'll, he won't reach fifty because he will not be able to stand the pollution and the life style that we go through. Questioner. Because not everybody is receptive and those ones that aren't receptive, what can you do for them? Gururaj. Yes, now that's always the dilemma, I know. But say for example, every person has at least five friends, has at least five friends, so if a hundred persons, say on the seventeenth of this month or whatever, just using a date, if the hundred people decide that Sunday afternoon, you know, have a cup of tea with my five friends, get on to the phone, "Come along home and you know, just chat and have a cup of tea". So what will be happening, that five hundred people wi ll be meeting in a hundred homes. Now all of them might not want to start meditating and of course our organisation is not just meditation alone, there are so many, many factors involved. There's a factor of knowledge and wisdom and the imparting of that grace, that drawing of that grace. So out of that five hundred people that are together on that Sunday afternoon for tea at a hundred different homes and even if half of them would show interest and start meditating, it's two hundred and fifty people, see. Now you take four thousand people in our Meditation Society and if all of them do that on a particular day, that’s twenty thousand people gathered in the name of God. And then even if they don't start meditating, if they listen to a little tape and go away with some nice, good thought, it's worthwhile. It's worthwhile, you see. I think we'll call it a day. Quarter past ten. Okay. END


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