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United States 83-25

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1. U S 83 - 25 [SOME OF THE JOKE IS LOST, EVIDENTLY IN CHANGING TAPES.] GR. : Oh, when it comes to women, I never fool around. (laughter) Yes. Q. So many of the religions, the Eastern religi ons especially, teach not only chastity, but non violence toward all other things. Even bugs in our apartments. Is there a point to these prohibitions of bramacharya and ahimsa, and so on. GR. : Ahimsa is a great point. If you go back to the times of Buddha, where there were so many sacrifices done in the name of religion. You know, sacrifices of goats, and, of course, even before that, human sacrifices. So he introduced the idea of ahimsa, non violence, which is very good. In modern times, as a ma tter of fact, a reporter came to interview me today and he asked me about Gandhi. And I told him that the man who professed non violence, ahimsa, was the man who was part and parcel of the partition of India, and millions of people were killed in massacre s. So what's the sense of teaching of non violence when you cause so much violence. I did not agree with Gandhi on that point. I lived with him for some time, really. Yeah. And nevertheless, these are very high ideals, but you can never practice ahims a or non violence in totality. For every breath you take, you are consuming so many microbes, hmm? Where is ahimsa. It cannot be totally practiced. But, you can have a total non attachment even in the act of killing, so that it does not take you into bondage. Now, by killing, I don't mean murdering. It's like, if you read the Gita, Krishna telling Arjuna, "Do your duty." So in the doing of one's duty, certain acts are not, cannot be helped. They are there. And then, of course, ahimsa, is not only the action itself, but the very thought of it is the same as the action, hmm? If you think lustful thoughts in your mind, you are lustful. And, of course, this idea of celibacy which you spoke about, that is sheer nonsense. Don't believe in it. I had a couple coming to my center once, and they were a very happy couple. So they met some visiting swami. And, this swami said if you want to make spiritual progress in your life, you become a celibate the two of you, hmm? Some weeks had passed, and they became emotionally disturbed, because they had not overcome the desire, do you see. And this swami forced them to abstain without overcoming the desire. So not having overcome the desire, and forcing themselves to abstain, that created so many repression s and inhibitions in their minds, where they had become a nervous wreck. So when they came to me and I heard the story, I said you go to bed tonight, and see that it is a double bed. And when I met them a month or two later, they were fine and normal, an d their loving, jovial selves. Everything that's given to man if you are given eyes, you see with them. You do not need to see evil. You know the three monkeys, hmm? You have ears given to you. Hear, but do not hear evil. Right. If you have speech given to you, speak truths, and don't speak untruths. And if you have been given other organs, use them, but use them wisely.

2. U S 83 - 25 Q. I think the problem is...helping people to be self realized is that you get so much input from the world: the media, papers , society. GR. : I agree with you. Q. And people get lost, really, on the path, whatever religion they are. GR.: Yes, that is very true. Do you know an average American child is subjected to 13,000 killings on the television screen per year. The med ia...you open up newspapers, there's just stories of violence and sex and things like that all the time. I don't even look at newspapers. If I do, I'll turn to some of the cultural pages and pick out a few things, otherwise.... Yeah, it's, it's a great pity. Do you know, this man was taking his wife, you know, to listen to one of my talks. And she was upstairs, and he was waiting downstairs, pacing up and down. So he shouts up, "Darling, would you please hurry up. We'll be late for the talk." So she shouts back that, "I told you half an hour ago that I'll be ready in five minutes." [laughter] Ah, yes. Q. But do you think though, we all wish to be god realized to a certain extent. People believe in God. But, do you believe a movement, or a universal mo vement, is needed to get people on their feet? GR.: No. Q. Religions are not doing anything. GR.: They are not. You know I had a press conference in London about two, two and a half years ago. And I told the people of the press. I mean, which pu t me under fire with their questions that's what a press conference is all about. And I told them that all these ministers, and pastors, and priests, they are not doing their job, because they are imparting nothing in the churches. But, I told them furt her that I have come to fill the churches, and the mosques, and the synagogues, and not to empty them. The reason why the churches are becoming emptier and the disco clubs are becoming more full is because the ministers, though they go through a certain n umber of years of training in a theology school, they should really be put through intense spiritual practices so that they could impart something, not sermons

3. U S 83 - 25 repeated parrot like. A true spiritual master not only gives wisdom, but he imparts, he ignites something in the hearts of people, so that it could flare up into a great big fire, being consumed by that joy, by love, by peace. Q. But the problem is greed. That is one of the hardest things to rid man of greed. GR.: Let us not talk of Man. Let us talk of the individual self, that is you. Q. But, the United States is based on greed, and wealth. GR.: On greed. Oh, yes. Chela: So are you. GR.: Every, every, every country is based on greed. And the basis of everything in the world is econo mics. All the wars are created because of economics. Everything is based on economics, hmm? Q. But man creates economics. GR.: Naturally. Naturally, because the motivation is greed. Q. Guruji, I think we I we want to know is how we can live in a world that's full of greed and economics. And we all have jobs to do and places to go. How can we do that and still attain realization? GR.: Oh, yes, you can do that. I've been in several businesses, you know, ranging from movies, to finance, to textiles, various factories, everything, hmm? And there was no greed at all in all my companies. Workers used to get a good, above average sal ary. Goods were sold not at a very high margin, and yet a good percentage was shown as dividends. And yet, everything was done totally honestly. A greedy person is a person who performs business or does anything with the idea of gaining more than what h e gives. That is greed. But, if you take to the value of what you give, that is not greed. That's trading.

4. U S 83 - 25 Q. But Man gets attached to this materialism and he loses... GR.: The sight, yes. Q. the true purpose and GR.: That's is very true. Very t rue. That's the tragedy. Q. Well, I am just one person. GR.: That is the tragedy. Unfortunately. Therefore, therefore, I travel around, living out of a suitcase, sleeping in different beds every night, uh, eating foods tha t are really wonderful foods , but stuff that I'm not used to. To teach this message. You can convert that greed, hmm? Have greed for divinity, so you'll use the same energy. In other words, let greed not be for the money god, but for the real God inside you. And that greed becom es a yearning. A seeking. So, from fragmentation, you are led to integration. Fragmentation is diversity. Integration is unity. Q. Right. So, you don't consider desire for divinity, then, one of the desires. We are supposed to let our desires go. That is desire of a different kind. GR.: You got to start off with having desire for divinity. You got to start there. Until you become divinity, and all desir e disappears, hmm? You would only desire food when you are hungry, but when your stomach is full, there is no desire for food, you see. All these things happen very naturally. People tell you, "Be like Buddha, be like Krishna, be like Christ." I tell you, "Be yourself. Be your honest self." And that's the only way you will find yourself, hm m? If you want to go to San Francisco, you can't start from New York. You got to start from Chicago, because you are in Chicago. Start from where you are. You know, there was this diplomatic luncheon, and a Chinese gentleman was sitting there, at the luncheon and next to him sat a young Englishman. And of course, this Englishman in his kindness thought that perhaps the China man cannot speak English. So, after the soup was served he asked the China man, this Englishman did, he asked the China man, "You likee soupee?" Hmm? The China man just smiled. So

5. U S 83 - 25 the Englishman thought, oh, well, he doesn't understand English. So, after dinner and I've been to many diplomatic dinners you know, there are some speeches after the dinner. And, well, at this di nner, few people asked to say a few words, after dinner speeches. And then, this Chinese gentleman was called up to speak. So, he got up and he gave a beautiful speech in impeccable English, full of wit and wisdom. And as the people applauded him, hmm, started applauding him and he was sitting down, he asks the Englishman, "You likee speechee?" [laughter] Yes. Q. I have a strange question. I have a lot of negative thought patterns all the time, and I am pessimistic a whole lot. Which I never seem t o be able to break. I try hard to shake it off, but I have real problems doing it. Now, what's the best (GR.: Way) to do that? GR.: Right. It's very easy. I've said this many times before, that I would challenge Dr. Norman Vincent Peale I believe he 's very well known in America Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, I'll challenge him on any public platform anywhere in the world. He says turn a negative thought into a positive thought, which means pessimism into optimism. It means nothing else. Right. So, th at is not the way it is done. It cannot be done. It's not like an electric switch, where you can switch the light on or off, hmm? You can't have a negative thought in your mind and immediately switch over to a positive thought. What you have to do is to neutralize the mind first from that negative or pessimistic thought, and then gradually you introduce the optimistic or the positive thought. So, therefore, you need to learn the proper systematic way of meditation. You have some teachers here who could be in your area. Give them a tinkle or you have brochures with phone numbers, or whatever, hmm? Give them a tinkle and they will teach you, and that will help a lot. Because really speaking, it is the same energy that is used. Pessimism uses the same energy that is used in optimism. It just depends how it is directed, and what one does with it. And sometimes... Q. If I was optimistic, I'd be great. GR.: Yes. Sure. Learn to meditate. [laughter] And by the way, I don't charge a penny for teaching meditation around the world nothing. A few dollars are sent with the forms to cover postage, stationery, and things like that. Meanwhile, of course, t he centers around the world they would expect a little donation. Because there are bills to meet...the guy in Bourbonnais I'm staying in Bourbonnais and for tonight's talk we are to travel down. It is a three, four hour journey, up and down, hmm? Petrol , motor car, telephone, things have to be covered. So a little donation is a donation is requested. But as far as I'm concerned for teaching practices to people, there is no charge. Do you see. Not like the other

6. U S 83 - 25 organizations you have, you know, in t his country, that has mantra supermarkets. And I know one organization that has sixty mantras, and they dish it out on an age basis. That if you are twenty to twenty five, you get this mantra, if you are twenty five to thirty, you get that mantra. If yo u are thirty to thirty five, you get that mantra. One thing wonderful happened. A group of university students got together and they were celebrating end of the term. What do you call it here? End of the semester. Right. And I suppose they had a beer , one too many. And the one said his mantra, and they are all in the same age group. So he said his mantra. And so everyone says, "Hey, that's my mantra." [laughter] And for that they charge you three hundred dollars, or three hundred and fifty. What a hoax. What a hoax. Pity! Pity that people should use divinity to amass millions, hmm? Now I don't profess poverty. I mean, if you have a five roomed house, have a ten room house. If you have five million have ten million, nothing wrong with that. But do not be attached to it. And if you have that, you know exactly how much you need to live, and perhaps a few pennies for the rainy day when you are not well, or whatever. But do good works with it. Yes. Yeah. Do not be attached. There was this old man on his dying bed. He was just on the verge of dying. So he asks his wife, "Where's John?" So the wife says, "John is standing on your left hand side." Then he asks, "Where's James?" "Oh," his wife says, "He's standing on your right hand side." T hen he asks, "Where's Peter?" "Oh, he's standing at your feet." So here at this moment this dying man is just about to go, got some strength in him, and sat up a bit. And he says, "If all of you are here, who's minding the store?" [laughter] Here you'r e dying, popping off, kicking the bucket, as Americans say, hmm? And you are still worried about the store. My friend, you came with nothing, and you go with nothing. And that which is in between is a beautiful, wonderful gift. Enjoy the joy that you r eally are. Q. Don't we leave with substantially more than we came with, because... GR. Don't we leave with... Q. We leave with our experiences. GR. Oh, yes. Yes, now I was speaking on the material terms. Oh, yes every experience is valuable. Ev ery experience is for a purpose. It leads you on to greater unfoldment of yourself. Nothing wrong. No, true. True. Q. One question. I believe in reincarnation. But one thing that puzzles me is if everybody comes back a certain amount of times, and t here are a certain number of people living on this earth now than ever lived here before, then where do all these people come from?

7. U S 83 - 25 GR.: Ah, yes. Yes, now, yes. I don't believe in reincarnation. I know reincarnation, because I can go into my past lives at will. Right. So I know about reincarnation. Now the common mistake that man does is this, that we are looking at a very small section in this vast continuum on either side. So, as highly evolved souls pass out from this side, lesser evolved souls ar e passing into this section. So, if you are looking, if you can see with that awareness, the entire continuum, then we would cease to see it sectionally. And therefore, the question arises, if all these people just come and come and come, you know, where 's there going to be place in the world for all to be in. For there are a lot of souls that are passing out. And others are coming in. It's like a school. You're in grade three. So the children in grade three pass out to grad e four, and the children o f grade two pass in to grade three. Continuous movement. Q. Do you believe in parallel lives? GR.: Parallel lives? What does that mean? Q. Well, I never heard of them until I went to Arizona a few years ago and this man...started preaching about th is. I am living here, and maybe someone else living in California; but she is part of me, and I am part of her. We are the same person. GR.: No. There is no such thing. We are, we are all part of each other. We are all part and parcel of each other. There is no such thing that you have a counterpart. There are other schools of thought again that tells you that you are living on this planet, and another part of you, which is exactly like you your double is living on some other planet. No such thi ng. You have no double. You are unique. But the spirit in all is one. Yeah. Q. Some people say that this is hell. GR.: Well, you know there was this chap who says ...[laughter]... there was this one chap, you know, who was speaking to his friend. He says, "Look, I'm definitely going to heaven." And he insisted, "You know, I'm definitely going to heaven." So his friend asked, "How can you be so sure?" So he replies, "Well, I'm having hell here. I can't be punished twice." No, hell and heaven are there, within oneself. Nowhere else. You know, there's a place here near Chicago called echo point. Somewhere up in the hills somewhere. I don't know where. Now at this echo point, this young couple were taking a drive. So the girl tells the boy, "Com e let's try this out."

8. U S 83 - 25 You know, it's called echo point, because the echo comes back. So the man says, "Oh, this is silly." So she says, "Oh, come on, let's have some fun." So he shouted, "Baloney." And he waited a minute, and there was no echo coming back. So then he was getting into the car. So she says, "Come on, try again." So the next time, he tried, "I'm the handsomest man in the world." Hmm? He shouted. And there the reply came back, "Baloney!" [laughter] Well, I've been invited for supper tonight, and it's ten o'clock, so I think we should, uh... Well, my guests understand, my hosts understand that I never eat before satsang. ****END****

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